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Paul in Boise
 
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Default Solve the gas water heater mystery

I have a Rheem 50 gal gas water heater (21V50-2) and need a little help
in isolating the problem. Based on some of the post I read on this NG
it will likely be "layup" for someone.

So a few days ago the pilot lit went out, and now to days later it
won't stay lit. Here are the tests I have done, any suggestions on
which component is failing?


1. The pilot flame looks normal so I don't think there is an issue
with this.

2. I can turn thermostat all the way down to "vacation" and the pilot
will stay lit by it self all night.

3. There seems to be a lot of heat coming out of the lower panel that
pilot light feeds through. The outside sidewall of the heater right
about this panel opening is starting to mis-color from the heater
(brownish). I have had the panel cover off a bit lately but there does
still seem to be an unusual amount of heat coming out.

4. Once lighted and on med-hi to high I only get about 20mins before
burner and pilot goes out. I am not sure if it's relevant but when all
the hot water is out and the heater has to heat all 50 gallons from
cold to hot I still can only get 20 mins out of it. If I turn the temp
down to low it will stay lit a lot longer.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions on what the problem is.

Thanks,
Paul

  #2   Report Post  
Bubba
 
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Default

On 13 Feb 2005 10:58:05 -0800, "Paul in Boise"
wrote:

I have a Rheem 50 gal gas water heater (21V50-2) and need a little help
in isolating the problem. Based on some of the post I read on this NG
it will likely be "layup" for someone.

So a few days ago the pilot lit went out, and now to days later it
won't stay lit. Here are the tests I have done, any suggestions on
which component is failing?


1. The pilot flame looks normal so I don't think there is an issue
with this.

2. I can turn thermostat all the way down to "vacation" and the pilot
will stay lit by it self all night.

3. There seems to be a lot of heat coming out of the lower panel that
pilot light feeds through. The outside sidewall of the heater right
about this panel opening is starting to mis-color from the heater
(brownish). I have had the panel cover off a bit lately but there does
still seem to be an unusual amount of heat coming out.

4. Once lighted and on med-hi to high I only get about 20mins before
burner and pilot goes out. I am not sure if it's relevant but when all
the hot water is out and the heater has to heat all 50 gallons from
cold to hot I still can only get 20 mins out of it. If I turn the temp
down to low it will stay lit a lot longer.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions on what the problem is.

Thanks,
Paul


Clean the pilot head.
Replace the thermocouple.
Temp setting has nothing to do with the pilot going out.
Check the venting and proper chimney sizing to keep the flue gases
going up and out the chimney and not down drafting back out the front
of the water heater.
If its and old water heater ( 10 yrs or so) think about replacing it.
Bubba
  #3   Report Post  
Colbyt
 
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"Paul in Boise" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a Rheem 50 gal gas water heater (21V50-2) and need a little help
in isolating the problem. Based on some of the post I read on this NG
it will likely be "layup" for someone.

So a few days ago the pilot lit went out, and now to days later it
won't stay lit. Here are the tests I have done, any suggestions on
which component is failing?


1. The pilot flame looks normal so I don't think there is an issue
with this.

2. I can turn thermostat all the way down to "vacation" and the pilot
will stay lit by it self all night.

3. There seems to be a lot of heat coming out of the lower panel that
pilot light feeds through. The outside sidewall of the heater right
about this panel opening is starting to mis-color from the heater
(brownish). I have had the panel cover off a bit lately but there does
still seem to be an unusual amount of heat coming out.

4. Once lighted and on med-hi to high I only get about 20mins before
burner and pilot goes out. I am not sure if it's relevant but when all
the hot water is out and the heater has to heat all 50 gallons from
cold to hot I still can only get 20 mins out of it. If I turn the temp
down to low it will stay lit a lot longer.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions on what the problem is.

Thanks,
Paul


Most likely this will not solve the problem but it is worth a try.

Gently tighten the connection where the thermocouple is connected to the gas
valve. No more 1/4 turn at very moderate pressure.

Replacing the thermocouple if it looks burnt or the unit is older is another
option though usually they don't stay lit at all if they are bad.

Colbyt


  #4   Report Post  
Duane Bozarth
 
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Paul in Boise wrote:

Sounds like possibly a regulator/pressure problem if both are going out
under load and not when in vacation--sounds like it isn't getting enough
gas--sorta like starving an engine.
  #5   Report Post  
Paul in Boise
 
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Wow, guess it isn't as simple as I thought. I appreciate the
responses. I guess I would like to ask another question though. Are
there any simple tests that I can do to further isolate the problem? I
don't have any specialized tools but if there are any tricks you may
know that might elimate a few things please just let me know. Also,
it looks pretty easy to remove the pilot light for cleaner but how do
clean it once it's out. Thanks again!


BTW, this heater was new with the house in 1994.



  #6   Report Post  
Colbyt
 
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Default


"Paul in Boise" wrote in message
ups.com...
it looks pretty easy to remove the pilot light for cleaner but how do
clean it once it's out. Thanks again!


BTW, this heater was new with the house in 1994.


Try all the suggestions received.

With a 10 year old heater the control valve could be bad. They aren't worth
replacing. They cost almost as much as a new heater IF you can even remove
the old one from the heater.

If you take apart the pilot to clean it replace the thermocouple at the
same. Now you are gambling $6 and 2-3 hours against the cost of a new
heater.

Remove the pilot assembly. Remove all the ash and crud from the pilot
burner with a stiff tooth brush (wire preferred).
Take it apart. Give the pipe a good BG. Inside of the burner there is an
orifice. The look varies but what it is a very tiny hole through which the
gas passes. When held up to a strong light you should see a perfect circle.
Most likely you won't. Your job is to clean the hole so that when sighted
against a strong light you see a perfect circle. You MUST NOT enlarge the
hole by using a needle or item to big to clean it. I have had good luck
using a single strand of wire from a twisted galvanized wire (such as
antenna guy wire). You need to use something about half the size of the
point on the safety pins that the dry cleaners send back on your clothes.
When you see the perfect circle the lint or dust has been removed. The
pilot should burn higher and wider than it did before you cleaned it.

Test all connections that you loosened with a solution of 1 tablespoon of
dish soap to 16 ounces of water. If any connection blows bubbles tighten
till it does not. Don't confuse the tiny bubbles from the soapy water as
being a leak. They will grow if you have a leak.

As always you accept this mission at your own risk. The information provided
is believed accurate but your are responsible for the final determination as
to the accuracy and or the results.

Colbyt


  #7   Report Post  
Paul in Boise
 
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Default

Thanks!

  #8   Report Post  
m Ransley
 
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Default

Start with the thermocuple, while at it flush the tank of scale, it wont
help your problems but will increase efficiency

  #9   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
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With the heat coming out the bottom, makes me wonder if you've got a clogged
chimney?

Might be choking the flame for lack of oxygen?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Paul in Boise" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a Rheem 50 gal gas water heater (21V50-2) and need a little help
in isolating the problem. Based on some of the post I read on this NG
it will likely be "layup" for someone.

So a few days ago the pilot lit went out, and now to days later it
won't stay lit. Here are the tests I have done, any suggestions on
which component is failing?


1. The pilot flame looks normal so I don't think there is an issue
with this.

2. I can turn thermostat all the way down to "vacation" and the pilot
will stay lit by it self all night.

3. There seems to be a lot of heat coming out of the lower panel that
pilot light feeds through. The outside sidewall of the heater right
about this panel opening is starting to mis-color from the heater
(brownish). I have had the panel cover off a bit lately but there does
still seem to be an unusual amount of heat coming out.

4. Once lighted and on med-hi to high I only get about 20mins before
burner and pilot goes out. I am not sure if it's relevant but when all
the hot water is out and the heater has to heat all 50 gallons from
cold to hot I still can only get 20 mins out of it. If I turn the temp
down to low it will stay lit a lot longer.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions on what the problem is.

Thanks,
Paul


  #10   Report Post  
Colbyt
 
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Default


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
With the heat coming out the bottom, makes me wonder if you've got a

clogged
chimney?

Might be choking the flame for lack of oxygen?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com



Good point Chris.

To test for a blocked flue hold a burning match under the draft hood while
the main burner is burning. If the flame draws toward the chimney all is
fine. If the match blows out, you have a draft/venting problem.

Colbyt




  #11   Report Post  
Speedy Jim
 
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Default

Colbyt wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

With the heat coming out the bottom, makes me wonder if you've got a


clogged

chimney?

Might be choking the flame for lack of oxygen?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com




Good point Chris.

To test for a blocked flue hold a burning match under the draft hood while
the main burner is burning. If the flame draws toward the chimney all is
fine. If the match blows out, you have a draft/venting problem.

Colbyt


More in that vein: A number of times we have seen the inner flue
passage *inside* the heater collapse. The pressure of the water
crushes a tank core weakened by age and rust.

The flame burns out because of lack of oxygen. Usually gives off
a very bad odor when it does. This type of failure may not show
on the draft hood test.

Jim

  #12   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
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Liberal gun haters design water heater tanks, now?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Doug Warner" wrote in message
...
Speedy Jim wrote:

More in that vein: A number of times we have seen the inner flue
passage *inside* the heater collapse. The pressure of the water
crushes a tank core weakened by age and rust.


Exactly, I had a Rheem heater that failed in this manner. The flue
stack had collapsed. One sign of the impending collapse was large
piles of rust flakes in the burner chamber.

A possible accelerator of this process was my use of chlorinated
degreasing solvents (gun cleaner) in the basement. This stuff breaks
down in the flame, releasing chlorine, which combines with combusion
moisture, which condenses as acid on the inside of the stack.

One way to prove this. Move the draft hoof and flue pipe aside, and
try to lift the baffle plate out of the heater stack. If it won't
move, then the stack has collapsed.



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