Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on buying HVAC system

We will be building a new house in the next 3 months or so and I need to
pick out an HVAC system for heating, cooling, and humidity control.

I would like some direction as to the best places to read-up and get
educated on what to look for and what to look out for in choosing system
type, brand, contractor, etc.

Many thanks.
  #4   Report Post  
stevef
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would stay away from Carrier. My neighbor got one last summer and has had
nothing but trouble.

Check out Better Business Bureau site-there seemed to be a lot of negatives
about Carrier.

Too bad. They used to be a really good unit.

I think Trane is a pretty good unit, but I'm sure there are others just as
good, or maybe better.


wrote in message
...
We will be building a new house in the next 3 months or so and I need to
pick out an HVAC system for heating, cooling, and humidity control.

I would like some direction as to the best places to read-up and get
educated on what to look for and what to look out for in choosing system
type, brand, contractor, etc.

Many thanks.


  #6   Report Post  
Lesley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Isn't that like asking the fox to recommend a type of lock to use for
the hen house doors?

I only ask because I too will be making a choice this summer. I have
no central heating system in my house and after the winter is over and
I can think clearly, I will have a system installed in my house. No
way can I see letting the guy who is going to earn money from the job
make the decisions about what I should or shouldn't have. That is just
a blatant conflict of interest! The original poster asked the same
question I'm asking now--isn't there some industry standard information
sources that a person can read to learn about each choice and make
their own decision--at least about what TYPE of system to put in (i.e.,
baseboard, radiant, forced air, etc.).??

Lesley

  #7   Report Post  
m Ransley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Start by reading all manufacturers brochures and online info .
Companies make a variety of equipment in different price ranges . Most
have a low end single speed 80% furnace with cheap low seer AC. Then top
line 93-94.5 % efficient furnaces with VS DC motors for more comfort ,
humidity removal, lower electric usage and very high seer AC units. It
depends on where you live- your heating cooling needs and cash you have.
If you live where it gets -20 to 100f and it is humid look into the most
efficient equipment, Some areas will never see a payback because temps
are to moderate. You need a good instaler, a load calculation and price
comparisons on different equipment . It is smart to know what you want
first, many uneducated instalers shy away from VS DC and 2 speed
condensers. Ive had several try to talk me into simple non efficient
equipment and one refusing to sell it to me . Insulated metal ducts are
worth the cost.

  #8   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lesley wrote:
Isn't that like asking the fox to recommend a type of lock to use for
the hen house doors?

I only ask because I too will be making a choice this summer. I have
no central heating system in my house and after the winter is over and
I can think clearly, I will have a system installed in my house. No
way can I see letting the guy who is going to earn money from the job
make the decisions about what I should or shouldn't have. That is
just a blatant conflict of interest! The original poster asked the
same question I'm asking now--isn't there some industry standard
information sources that a person can read to learn about each choice
and make their own decision--at least about what TYPE of system to
put in (i.e., baseboard, radiant, forced air, etc.).??

Lesley


I can only say that it is going to be very difficult to equal the skill
of at good professional. A good professional will give you what you want
and need. On the other hand, even if you pick some very nice equipment out,
maybe even the right equipment for your needs, you are going to end up with
a second rate un-reliable system if it is not properly installed.

As I said a good pro will only sell you good equipment.

The trick, and it is a trick, is to find that good professional. They
are there. I have one I trust, I only hope he is still around in a few more
years when it is time to replace my current system. I found him on a small
issue that I called him in, when my AC will killed by lightning. His
knowledge and his response, saving me money without costing me in quality
proved him to me.


--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


  #9   Report Post  
Astro
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 30 Jan 2005 05:36:47 -0800, Lesley wrote:

Isn't that like asking the fox to recommend a type of lock to use for
the hen house doors?

I only ask because I too will be making a choice this summer. I have
no central heating system in my house and after the winter is over and
I can think clearly, I will have a system installed in my house. No
way can I see letting the guy who is going to earn money from the job
make the decisions about what I should or shouldn't have. That is just
a blatant conflict of interest! The original poster asked the same
question I'm asking now--isn't there some industry standard information
sources that a person can read to learn about each choice and make
their own decision--at least about what TYPE of system to put in (i.e.,
baseboard, radiant, forced air, etc.).??

Lesley


Learn, learn, learn.

If you want to increase your odds, you need to become knowledgable THEN
trust the guys to do their job. Use the knowledge to filter out the hacks.
Talk to friends and neighbors and check out their installations.

I've not seen centralized references that summarize everything in a tidy
format for you. There are numerous options, each with their relative
benefits, costs, etc. You need to know enough to have a starting point and
find the right specialist. Do you want radiant heat, hot water baseboard,
forced air, ...? Do you want oil, gas, solar, electric, geothermal...?

There aren't many shortcuts. You will have to invest many, many hours
studying the pros/cons of each system type. It's analagous to buying a
vehicle. If you knew nothing about modes of transportation, then walked
into a Hummer dealer, they'd sell you on the virtues of a Hummer. First,
you have to know the options. Do you want an SUV, pick-up, sedan, sports
car, Motorcycle, bicycle, 2 seater, 2WD, 4WD, etc.??? Would you find a
website that could tell you the relative merits of all these different
vehicles?

I'm not trying to be a wise-a**. But the onus is on the consumers to
educate themselves. It takes time, but it's worth it.

The options narrow down quickly once you study them. Your home or budget
may not support certain choices. Soon, you're left with a few choices and
have enough education to ask the pros specific questions. Then, you can
get the contractors to come out and give you their opinions and get
quotations. Without the up-front footwork on your part, you'll be wasting
their time or just blindly trusting them to tell you what's best.

As other posters have suggested, you'll not be as knowledgable as the
pros. But you'll have a starting point and you will be able to see who is
blowing smoke, giving you a better chance of avoiding the obvious attempts
to rip you off.

Warning - do not post questions to alt.hvac. That's a "pro's only" forum.
Stick to groups like this one where there are plenty of other consumers
and pros who are willing to help. But always, spend some time with Google
before asking questions or you're likely to get snarky replies.

Good luck.
  #10   Report Post  
Bubba
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 30 Jan 2005 05:36:47 -0800, "Lesley" wrote:

Isn't that like asking the fox to recommend a type of lock to use for
the hen house doors?

I only ask because I too will be making a choice this summer. I have
no central heating system in my house and after the winter is over and
I can think clearly, I will have a system installed in my house. No
way can I see letting the guy who is going to earn money from the job
make the decisions about what I should or shouldn't have. That is just
a blatant conflict of interest! The original poster asked the same
question I'm asking now--isn't there some industry standard information
sources that a person can read to learn about each choice and make
their own decision--at least about what TYPE of system to put in (i.e.,
baseboard, radiant, forced air, etc.).??

Lesley


As a long established HVAC contractor I can tell you that you need to
find a "good" company and then trust them. Personally, I think most
all of the equipment out there is crap. All the manufacturers suffer
the same problem. Get a product out there and build it as
inexpensively as you can. Sometimes, quality of that product suffers.
Like I say, find a good company. Check with friends, neighbors, co
workers and anyone you come in contact with. Even call the local
Bryant, American Standard, etc warehouses and talk to the guys at the
counter. They are the ones that know most of us and they are also the
ones that know which companies to use and which ones to steer clear
of. Id have to recommend getting a 10 yr parts and labor warranty too
because no matter what you get installed it will break over the next
ten years and it WILL pay for itself.
Note: Personally, I dont have much faith in the Better Business
Bureau. Companies like myself can pay them to be a "Preferred Vendor"
with them. I think that is bull****. I worked for a company for a
couple years that did just that. They were the worst pack of thieves
and the BBB rated them highly. Utter nonsense.
Good Luck,
Bubba


  #11   Report Post  
Bob Pietrangelo
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DO NOT USE THE CONTRATORS HVAC COMPANY!!!!!

Find a high end local company. You want Variable Speed Heating
System(preferably 90%+)
2 Stage Air Conditioning System, Zoned house, Good Thermostats, Fresh air
Ventilator, Humidifier, Ultra VIolet Purifier, EZ trap condensate trap,
High end media filtration, or whole house hepa, 10 Year Manufacturer Parts
and Labor. Stick with higher end equipment Trane etc.
Stay away from builders grade stuff. Stay far away from Goodman or Nordyne
product. This system will be expensive, but it is your home comfort system
for the life of your home. You are going to be here longer than in your
car, and how much do you pay for a car???

wrote in message
...
We will be building a new house in the next 3 months or so and I need to
pick out an HVAC system for heating, cooling, and humidity control.

I would like some direction as to the best places to read-up and get
educated on what to look for and what to look out for in choosing system
type, brand, contractor, etc.

Many thanks.



  #12   Report Post  
GFRfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bubba wrote:
On 30 Jan 2005 05:36:47 -0800, "Lesley" wrote:


Isn't that like asking the fox to recommend a type of lock to use for
the hen house doors?



Lesley


Yeah. How could an HVAC professional (who deals with heating systems
every day) possibly know more than the customer(who deals with heating
systems once every 5 to 20 years)?



As a long established HVAC contractor I can tell you that you need to
find a "good" company and then trust them. Personally, I think most
all of the equipment out there is crap. All the manufacturers suffer
the same problem. Get a product out there and build it as
inexpensively as you can. Sometimes, quality of that product suffers.

Good Luck,
Bubba


Most customers don't want quality. They want cheap. Seems people would
rather pay $500.00 every 5 years on a throw away system made from beer
cans, than $1000.00 every 20 years on a well engineered, well built
system. Cheap is what keeps bad companies and hacks in business.
The original poster has the right idea. Learn as much as you can
buuuuuuut, never discount the knowledge of an experienced professional.
Cheaper is NOT always better. Choose the wrong system in your house and
you WILL pay for it in other ways.
And Bubba is right. The BBB is not a reliable tool.
  #13   Report Post  
Karla
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bob Pietrangelo wrote:

DO NOT USE THE CONTRATORS HVAC COMPANY!!!!!


Unless you have one of the few home builders that does not hire the cheapest
bare bones subs possible. A few near me hire established competent HVAC
companies.



Find a high end local company. You want Variable Speed Heating
System(preferably 90%+)
2 Stage Air Conditioning System, Zoned house, Good Thermostats, Fresh air
Ventilator, Humidifier, Ultra VIolet Purifier, EZ trap condensate trap,
High end media filtration, or whole house hepa, 10 Year Manufacturer Parts
and Labor. Stick with higher end equipment Trane etc.
Stay away from builders grade stuff. Stay far away from Goodman or Nordyne
product.


Isn't Amana (HVAC products) now owned by Goodman? Amana used to be known as a
quality name in HVAC. I also here that Amana is also producing a line called
"Xenon" but they are taking great pains to keep this connection a secret, which
means Amana is unlikely to stand behind "Xenon" products in the long term.


  #15   Report Post  
Bubba
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:49:26 -0600, Doug Boulter
wrote:

wrote on 29 Jan 2005:

We will be building a new house in the next 3 months or so and I
need to pick out an HVAC system for heating, cooling, and
humidity control.


Much as it pains me to agree with Bubba (and it really does)...


It "pains" you because Im right. Just because I wont hold you , coddle
you and whisper sweet nothings in your ear. You get it straight from
me. You dont like it. Tough ****.

Most of the manufacturers really are making their equipment as
cheaply as they can. If you've picked a good HVAC contractor, that
person can steer you pretty well on what brands they're comfortable
working on. Remember, a lot of the problems will turn up in the
warranty period, and no HVAC person is getting rich on warranty
calls.

Be careful of contractors who offer only one brand (e.g. Lennox).
Lennox makes good stuff, but if you want to get it repaired, you'd
better be really happy with your Lennox dealer, as independent HVAC
shops pay through the nose for parts.

Wrong. Lennox makes **** and you the customer pays for there mistakes.
Dealer or no dealer there parts are ridiculous in price and you the
customer will pay for that.

What you will want to think about is the efficiency rating of your
heating and A/C systems and how long the payback is. That will
depend on your local climate, cost of fuel, and price difference in
the variously efficient models.

Contacting your local gas company and/or electrical company will
often yield you some very good advice on the efficiency issues.


Bubba



  #16   Report Post  
Sam O'Nella
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Warning - do not post questions to alt.hvac. That's a "pro's only"
forum.


I highly recommend perusing some of those message to get an idea how "pros"
really behave.



  #17   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:20:45 GMT, Bubba wrote:

As a long established HVAC contractor I can tell you that you need to
find a "good" company and then trust them.


Bubba,

The problem is finding that "good" company. Part of doing that is knowing
enough about the subject so that when I am talking to the incompetent or
the crook, I can recognize him for what he is.

I like to buy quality. Many years ago, I got 3 prices on a major HVAC job
and selected the highest price because that contractor was able to convince
me that he knew what he was doing and that I needed the more costly duct
design that he proposed. I was never sorry about that choice. Of course,
I want to save as much money as I sensibly can, but buying junk equipment
or hiring a "junk" contractor is not sensible.

Personally, I think most
all of the equipment out there is crap. All the manufacturers suffer
the same problem. Get a product out there and build it as
inexpensively as you can. Sometimes, quality of that product suffers.
Like I say, find a good company.


In a later post you talked about Lennox equipment. Are there others you
think I should steer clear of or consider favorably because of quality,
serviceability/cost, performance, etc?

I live in Southeastern VA (near the bay) and desire year around humidity
control, expecially during those months when little to no heat or
airconditioning is required.

Check with friends, neighbors, co
workers and anyone you come in contact with.

I am building a house in a new (to me) area, so I won't have good local
contacts.

Even call the local
Bryant, American Standard, etc warehouses and talk to the guys at the
counter. They are the ones that know most of us and they are also the
ones that know which companies to use and which ones to steer clear
of. Id have to recommend getting a 10 yr parts and labor warranty too
because no matter what you get installed it will break over the next
ten years and it WILL pay for itself.

Thanks. Will do.

  #18   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:20:45 GMT, Bubba wrote:

As a long established HVAC contractor I can tell you that you need to
find a "good" company and then trust them.


Bubba,

The problem is finding that "good" company. Part of doing that is knowing
enough about the subject so that when I am talking to the incompetent or
the crook, I can recognize him for what he is.

I like to buy quality. Many years ago, I got 3 prices on a major HVAC job
and selected the highest price because that contractor was able to convince
me that he knew what he was doing and that I needed the more costly duct
design that he proposed. I was never sorry about that choice. Of course,
I want to save as much money as I sensibly can, but buying junk equipment
or hiring a "junk" contractor is not sensible.

Personally, I think most
all of the equipment out there is crap. All the manufacturers suffer
the same problem. Get a product out there and build it as
inexpensively as you can. Sometimes, quality of that product suffers.
Like I say, find a good company.


In a later post you talked about Lennox equipment. Are there others you
think I should steer clear of or consider favorably because of quality,
serviceability/cost, performance, etc?

I live in Southeastern VA (near the bay) and desire year around humidity
control, expecially during those months when little to no heat or
airconditioning is required.

Check with friends, neighbors, co
workers and anyone you come in contact with.

I am building a house in a new (to me) area, so I won't have good local
contacts.

Even call the local
Bryant, American Standard, etc warehouses and talk to the guys at the
counter. They are the ones that know most of us and they are also the
ones that know which companies to use and which ones to steer clear
of. Id have to recommend getting a 10 yr parts and labor warranty too
because no matter what you get installed it will break over the next
ten years and it WILL pay for itself.

Thanks. Will do.

  #19   Report Post  
effi
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
We will be building a new house in the next 3 months or so and I need
to pick out an HVAC system for heating, cooling, and humidity control.

I would like some direction as to the best places to read-up and get
educated on what to look for and what to look out for in choosing
system type, brand, contractor, etc.

Many thanks.



http://mb-soft.com/solar/saving.html
"Free Home Air Conditioning!
Save Money on Your Electric Bills!
....this system was invented and designed by a nuclear physicist!...And the
coolest (pun intended) part of this is that all of the comfort in the house
is PRECISELY identical to that when using conventional air conditioning. The
temperature and humidity levels will be identical"


  #20   Report Post  
Bubba
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:28:10 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:20:45 GMT, Bubba wrote:

As a long established HVAC contractor I can tell you that you need to
find a "good" company and then trust them.


Bubba,

The problem is finding that "good" company. Part of doing that is knowing
enough about the subject so that when I am talking to the incompetent or
the crook, I can recognize him for what he is.


Just the same as finding a good doctor, teacher, car mechanic and
painter. We arent all crooks.

I like to buy quality. Many years ago, I got 3 prices on a major HVAC job
and selected the highest price because that contractor was able to convince
me that he knew what he was doing and that I needed the more costly duct
design that he proposed. I was never sorry about that choice. Of course,
I want to save as much money as I sensibly can, but buying junk equipment
or hiring a "junk" contractor is not sensible.

Personally, I think most
all of the equipment out there is crap. All the manufacturers suffer
the same problem. Get a product out there and build it as
inexpensively as you can. Sometimes, quality of that product suffers.
Like I say, find a good company.


In a later post you talked about Lennox equipment. Are there others you
think I should steer clear of or consider favorably because of quality,
serviceability/cost, performance, etc?


Equipment selection can be a personal choice. Dealers may get spiffs
or trip points for selling only Carrier or Bryant (or whatever)
equipment. I dont like Lennox because of their attitude and how all
there parts seem to cost double of everyone else's. That can be just
an opinion though. Try to steer away from equipment that seems to get
put in mobile homes. It belongs there..........not in houses.
Bubba

I live in Southeastern VA (near the bay) and desire year around humidity
control, expecially during those months when little to no heat or
airconditioning is required.

Check with friends, neighbors, co
workers and anyone you come in contact with.

I am building a house in a new (to me) area, so I won't have good local
contacts.

Even call the local
Bryant, American Standard, etc warehouses and talk to the guys at the
counter. They are the ones that know most of us and they are also the
ones that know which companies to use and which ones to steer clear
of. Id have to recommend getting a 10 yr parts and labor warranty too
because no matter what you get installed it will break over the next
ten years and it WILL pay for itself.

Thanks. Will do.




  #21   Report Post  
Dave in Lake Villa
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Do a google : 'Buying heating/cooling systems' . Talk with your
neighbors on who theyre happy with. When you get proposals, be sure and
get them to provide addresses and phone numbers of customers that have
had an installation performed then take a look at the job . Check with
your local BBB to be sure they havent had any complaints filed against
them. Go to your local courthouse and see if they have been a Defendant
in a Law Suit ; the clerk will give you the books to look thru at no
charge (in alphabetical order) . Dont give them anymore than 50%
deposit. Go to Consumer Reports Oct. of 1998 for a 4 page article on
different efficiency residental systems , how brands stack up, and how
to choose a Contractor. Go to your local Village Building Dept. and
ask if there are any hvac Contractors which they have banned from
working in your town. Take out a Permit for the installation so the job
can be properly inspected by a Village Inspector who will act on your
best behalf ; the Permit fee will be worth it to give you peace of mind.

  #22   Report Post  
Dave in Lake Villa
 
Posts: n/a
Default

'Most have a low end single speed 80% furnace with cheap low seer AC.
Then top line 93-94.5 % efficient furnaces with VS DC motors for more
comfort , humidity removal, lower electric usage and very high seer AC
units. It depends on where you live- your heating cooling needs and cash
you have. '

It also depends on how long you are planning on living in your home ;
Variable Speed DC motor furnaces will take a very long time to get a
payback on ; they get an arm and a leg for them . IF youre planning on
staying in the house for 20 plus years, then okay...otherwise, they are
only good to impress the Friday night Card Game regulars (if they are so
duped). Weigh up how much you run the Cooling...if you are not big a/c
buffs, then going with an extreme EER a/c unit is pointless due to a
long payback period. If you want to save a good 25% of the cost...go
with a Rheem, Goodman , or Tempstar brand over hyped up advertised
brands like Trane, Carrier, and Lennox. Each one of these brands will
last as long as the others so long as they are properly maintenanced.

  #23   Report Post  
U will be assimilated
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON..
HACK ALERT..dave's giving out advice again

  #24   Report Post  
m Ransley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No Dave wrong again but since you sell "trailer equipment " and are not
a dealer of anything but Goodman you lie. Does Goodman have VS DC???
No . As I posted the numbers before, a 6 yr payback can be seen with VS
DC. You never counterd my numbers but hid. Not only do you get more
efficiency, but more humidity removal , using a humidistat-thermostat.
You can even control Fan Speed at the thermostat! You told him to read
Consumer Reports , atta boy Dave , read it again Dave, the Carrier
Infinity VS DC was rated "A Best Buy " in Comsumer Reports. And I
bet it is more efficient than Goodman .

  #25   Report Post  
U will be assimilated
 
Posts: n/a
Default

OH NO!!!....Not some MORE bad advice from well known hvac HACK and all
around fundy idiot, dave?

Why should this not surprise anyone?



  #26   Report Post  
GFRfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sam O'Nella wrote:
Warning - do not post questions to alt.hvac. That's a "pro's only"
forum.



I highly recommend perusing some of those message to get an idea how "pros"
really behave.





If you follow some of the threads on there, you will find that some
'pros' behave like little children and are pretty egotistical assholes.
But then, I don't ask questions over there. Don't need to. We've got
enough hacks in this shop. Don't have to be an asshole to not be a hack.
Oh, and I'm not talking about those that call out the hacks. The hacks
deserve the treatment. I'm talking about those who think they have
something to prove by being assholes.
  #27   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I read the book called "This Old House, Heating Ventilation and
Cooling" from the HVAC guy in the "This Old House" TV show. That was a
good reading. It gives you a lot of pros and cons of various systems
and how they are related to the regional need.

What he suggested is to choose the right HVAC contractor instead of
choosing the right system. This sounds like a good advice because
there are too many variables in choosing the right HVAC systems, and
there are regional requirement to sort out, and many tasks require a
licensed professional to install. You will have to deal with a HVAC
contractor anyway. Unfortunately, I don't remember whether he
mentioned anything about how to choose the right contractor other than
making sure the contractor belongs to a national-wise association or
something.

Jay Chan

  #28   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The difficult part is to find a good HVAC contractor. When we asked
contractors about setting central cooling in my house, we got many
different advices, and we were not in the position to know which one
was the right one. The same thing happened when we ask contractors to
fix the roof in my house. We got confused. Hopefully, there is a good
trick to tell which one is good.

There must be a good way to tell. I believe each trade has a way to
locate a good contractor. For example, if someone wants to look for a
doctor, one good way is to ask the nurse. Nurses know _exactly_ which
doctors are good and which ones to avoid. I assume that there must be
a similar trick in HVAC industry to locate a good contractor. I really
doubt that asking our friends or neighbors will be any help because
they probably know even less. This is just like this is not a good
idea to ask a patient to recommend a doctor. A patient will rate how
the doctor "talks" more than anything; hence, he will always give a
good rating to a doctor who is probably more like a salesman than a
doctor.

Jay Chan

  #29   Report Post  
John Harlow
 
Posts: n/a
Default


There must be a good way to tell. I believe each trade has a way to
locate a good contractor.


Some have suggested asking the parts counter people at the local supply
store..


  #30   Report Post  
Zyp
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ask your neighbors, friends, and relatives. They'd give you advice on who
to choose, and NOT to choose. What their experience has been, etc.
Besides, people love to give recommendations, good or bad.

--
Zyp

wrote in message
oups.com...
The difficult part is to find a good HVAC contractor. When we asked
contractors about setting central cooling in my house, we got many
different advices, and we were not in the position to know which one
was the right one. The same thing happened when we ask contractors to
fix the roof in my house. We got confused. Hopefully, there is a good
trick to tell which one is good.

There must be a good way to tell. I believe each trade has a way to
locate a good contractor. For example, if someone wants to look for a
doctor, one good way is to ask the nurse. Nurses know _exactly_ which
doctors are good and which ones to avoid. I assume that there must be
a similar trick in HVAC industry to locate a good contractor. I really
doubt that asking our friends or neighbors will be any help because
they probably know even less. This is just like this is not a good
idea to ask a patient to recommend a doctor. A patient will rate how
the doctor "talks" more than anything; hence, he will always give a
good rating to a doctor who is probably more like a salesman than a
doctor.

Jay Chan





  #31   Report Post  
Bob G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 10:47:53 -0800, "Zyp"
wrote:

Ask your neighbors, friends, and relatives. They'd give you advice on who
to choose, and NOT to choose. What their experience has been, etc.
Besides, people love to give recommendations, good or bad.

=================================

Good question ... Both my sons are HVAC "pros" ...Both are
employees...not owners.. and both have about 10 years experience
not alot but enough. to know how to be dangerious...

Ask ...LOCAL frineds, for sure...BUT also ask some local business
people...like your Physiciam, your lawyer, your Gas Station
owner...etc... these people need HVAC service ... No way your Doctor
is going to have office visits if his A/C is shut down for a week in
August..

That said... The boys have told me many many times that the Brand
of the installed unit is not really the important thing... IT is the
installer...and the guy who comes out to your house and does the
calculations (Manuel J)... PLUS how they actually do the
installation...

The failure rate of brand "A" is at best, only slightly better then
Brand "B" at best.... They do not like Trane however and I can not
remember exactly why...

Anyway they each have quit jobs because they had to do fast, and
dirty, installations not given enough time to do it right so corners
HAD and were cut..Took them a few years to find an employer who paid
well and insisted on good solid work...most paid well but lost all
interest in the customer even before the installation was done..before
they got paid...

Duct Tape is a wonderful tool...yea sure....

Bob Griffiths

  #32   Report Post  
John Harlow
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Duct Tape is a wonderful tool...yea sure....

Not for ducts however.

I hear superglue is the tool of choice for gas furnace sensors though.


  #33   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Advice on buying HVAC system

replying to NoSpam99989, Monte wrote:
Most of the brands of HVAC equipment are equivalent on durability, efficiency,
and life span. Some brands the parts are outrageously priced one furnace has a
venter assembly that is around $1000, avoid air conditioners that use
microchannel type condenser coils currently have a high failure rate. My
current brand is Goodman. Probably the most important thing is proper design
and installation of the duct work. 40+ HVAC&R tech

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...em-589507-.htm


  #34   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,279
Default Advice on buying HVAC system

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 11:44:06 PM UTC-5, Monte wrote:
replying to NoSpam99989, Monte wrote:
Most of the brands of HVAC equipment are equivalent on durability, efficiency,
and life span. Some brands the parts are outrageously priced one furnace has a
venter assembly that is around $1000, avoid air conditioners that use
microchannel type condenser coils currently have a high failure rate. My
current brand is Goodman. Probably the most important thing is proper design
and installation of the duct work. 40+ HVAC&R tech

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...em-589507-.htm


+1

All good advice. When I did my research about ten years ago, the reliability
reports looked about the same whether it was Goodman, Rheem or Carrier or Trane.
Also G and R I think tend to use common parts that more suppliers carry
and that probably cost less. I went with a Rheem and it's been fine except
for the stupid ECM motor on the condenser fan failing. It would have been
$300+ just for the motor. I put in a basic PSC motor that fit exactly,
cost me $90. That ECM is an example of how not to save energy. The amount
that fan uses is so small, it's not worth having a motor with fancy
electronics, especially in an outside environment. I have an ECM blower
motor too, that's been fine and I think I've saved enough on electric by
now that it's more than paid for itself.

I also agree that I'd rather have sub-prime eqpt than a sub-prime installer.
You could get the most expensive eqpt and a bad installer will have it
screwed up.





  #35   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default Advice on buying HVAC system

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 06:58:11 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 11:44:06 PM UTC-5, Monte wrote:
replying to NoSpam99989, Monte wrote:
Most of the brands of HVAC equipment are equivalent on durability, efficiency,
and life span. Some brands the parts are outrageously priced one furnace has a
venter assembly that is around $1000, avoid air conditioners that use
microchannel type condenser coils currently have a high failure rate. My
current brand is Goodman. Probably the most important thing is proper design
and installation of the duct work. 40+ HVAC&R tech

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...em-589507-.htm


+1

All good advice. When I did my research about ten years ago, the reliability
reports looked about the same whether it was Goodman, Rheem or Carrier or Trane.
Also G and R I think tend to use common parts that more suppliers carry
and that probably cost less. I went with a Rheem and it's been fine except
for the stupid ECM motor on the condenser fan failing. It would have been
$300+ just for the motor. I put in a basic PSC motor that fit exactly,
cost me $90. That ECM is an example of how not to save energy. The amount
that fan uses is so small, it's not worth having a motor with fancy
electronics, especially in an outside environment. I have an ECM blower
motor too, that's been fine and I think I've saved enough on electric by
now that it's more than paid for itself.

Those savings go up in smoke as soon as that blower motor takes a
crap. The motor for my Trane was $800 but they said not to replace the
motor unless I also replaced the $800 board.
You are not saving $1600 in 10 years.


  #36   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,279
Default Advice on buying HVAC system

On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 10:44:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 06:58:11 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 11:44:06 PM UTC-5, Monte wrote:
replying to NoSpam99989, Monte wrote:
Most of the brands of HVAC equipment are equivalent on durability, efficiency,
and life span. Some brands the parts are outrageously priced one furnace has a
venter assembly that is around $1000, avoid air conditioners that use
microchannel type condenser coils currently have a high failure rate. My
current brand is Goodman. Probably the most important thing is proper design
and installation of the duct work. 40+ HVAC&R tech

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...em-589507-.htm


+1

All good advice. When I did my research about ten years ago, the reliability
reports looked about the same whether it was Goodman, Rheem or Carrier or Trane.
Also G and R I think tend to use common parts that more suppliers carry
and that probably cost less. I went with a Rheem and it's been fine except
for the stupid ECM motor on the condenser fan failing. It would have been
$300+ just for the motor. I put in a basic PSC motor that fit exactly,
cost me $90. That ECM is an example of how not to save energy. The amount
that fan uses is so small, it's not worth having a motor with fancy
electronics, especially in an outside environment. I have an ECM blower
motor too, that's been fine and I think I've saved enough on electric by
now that it's more than paid for itself.

Those savings go up in smoke as soon as that blower motor takes a
crap. The motor for my Trane was $800 but they said not to replace the
motor unless I also replaced the $800 board.
You are not saving $1600 in 10 years.


That's why I recommended staying with Goodman, Rheem, Rudd. Trane, Carrier,
are no more reliable, but more likely to use volume parts that you can
easily source. They are also more likely to hose you with their own thermostat,
some proprietary link, etc. Replacing the board too sounds like CYA and
more $$$ for the service company. I would have sent them packing. My whole
two stage gas furnace with variable speed ECM blower cost about $1600 when
I bought it, retail.

Here are some Rheem ECM motors, $340 to $550. Note they also have just the
electronics end for $135. I was skeptical of the ECM stuff years ago too.
But at these prices for something that is used a lot and that uses significant
energy, I think they make sense. Nine years here and very happy.



Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Checking Air Conditioner in Cold Weather Decij Home Repair 15 January 6th 05 06:12 AM
Noisey, Airey, Hydrogeny Central Heating system Advice 0mic UK diy 0 December 30th 04 10:49 AM
repair or replace goodman hvac system?? Carol Scheible Home Repair 9 August 12th 04 04:44 PM
dvd player buying advice b Electronics Repair 4 February 4th 04 02:46 AM
OT Advice on buying a dishwasher IMM UK diy 0 July 17th 03 01:37 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:59 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"