During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

how will spending the $500 prevent sinuses from drying out?
isn't that a humidity issue?


"Sennin" wrote in message
ups.com...
During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

Sennin wrote:
During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

Being sick from time to time is part of life. During winter being close
together and dry air tend to increase the chance of illness.

Your furnace heats air and that decreases the humidity.

I suggest you contact a doctor about what your particular health issues
may be. The doctor may recommend correcting the humidity or may suggest
that you may have a mold - dust issue. Right now you are just guessing and
we are not doctors here and neither is your HVAC man.

It is a fact that there are cases where ducts should be cleaned, but not
often. There are also many cases where people are convinced they need ducts
cleaned when they don't need them cleaned.


I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Your furnace heats air and that decreases the humidity.

Then again, an average family of 4 evaporate about 2 gallons of water
per day. In an airtight house, the relative humidity would quickly rise
to 100% in wintertime, limited by condensation on windows.

A 2400 ft^2 1-story house contains 2400x8x0.075 = 1440 pounds of air.
At 70 F and 100% RH, it would contain about 0.015832x1440 = 22.8 pounds
of water vapor. A family of 4 could increase the RH from 50 to 100% in
0.5x22.8/(2x8.33) = 0.68 days, ie 16.4 hours, or less, given a few more
green plants and indoor window surfaces cooler than 70 F.

Forget the furnace. Caulk the house.

Nick

wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Your furnace heats air and that decreases the humidity.

Then again, an average family of 4 evaporate about 2 gallons of water
per day. In an airtight house, the relative humidity would quickly
rise to 100% in wintertime, limited by condensation on windows.

An interesting thought, but I have never heard of a house coming
anywhere close to 100%. It would be a very unusual home, even a very tight
home to get up to a good 40-60% humidity level during winter in a cold
climate without additional humidification. Homes are not even close to
airtight and I sure would not want to live in one. The space station is
not a very comfortable place to live.


A 2400 ft^2 1-story house contains 2400x8x0.075 = 1440 pounds of air.
At 70 F and 100% RH, it would contain about 0.015832x1440 = 22.8
pounds of water vapor. A family of 4 could increase the RH from 50
to 100% in
0.5x22.8/(2x8.33) = 0.68 days, ie 16.4 hours, or less, given a few
more green plants and indoor window surfaces cooler than 70 F.

Forget the furnace. Caulk the house.

Caulk is not going to do it for most homes. I fear the realities of
home construction get in the way of your theory, even though the theory is
correct.


Nick

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Sennin" wrote in message
ups.com...
During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?


Furnace cleaning's a good idea. They're all different, I guess, but in the
two I've owned, the motors got dusty and I don't think that's good for any
motor. You didn't mention what type of furnace you have, but if it's
oil-fired, you DEFINITELY want it looked at once a year.

As far as the ducts, unless you KNOW you have a mold problem (and it won't
only be in the ducts), it's pretty much a feel-good thing. It's cool to see
all the dust come out. But, if you're using the right filters, you're in
good shape.

This will generate plenty of debate: In my informal and totally unscientific
research, with two furnaces in 20 years, I came to the conclusion that the
middle-priced filters (around $8) seemed to do as good a job as the more
expensive ones, and the cheapest ones were almost useless. I cannot document
my reasons, the experiment may not be repeatable anywhere in the known
universe. You also need to see what your owner's manual says about different
types of filters.


--

Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.

On 8 Jan 2005 02:21:37 -0800, "Sennin" wrote:

During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

Have your furnace and A/C checked and cleaned yearly.
Check your heat exchanger for cracks and/or have a CO test done.
Go to your doctor and see if you are sick.
Duct cleaning is always debateable. Have them show you a place or two
in your ducts that is dirty then you decide if you want them cleaned.
Cleaning ducts wont add humidity in your home.
Id be more interested in investing that money into a humidifier, air
filtering, UV light or other indoor air quality products. Those keep
on working/cleaning. The duct cleaning gets finished and the dirt
cycle starts all over again.
Bubba

On 8 Jan 2005 02:21:37 -0800, "Sennin" wrote:

During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

Yeah.

You are a sucker for the charlatans and they will rob you blind.

Don't let these quacks near your home.

Fred

"Fred" wrote in message
...
On 8 Jan 2005 02:21:37 -0800, "Sennin" wrote:

During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

Yeah.

You are a sucker for the charlatans and they will rob you blind.

Don't let these quacks near your home.

Fred

Just one exception, and a comment: First, there are companies that will
actually get the ducts clean, regardless of whether it's necessary. That
leads to the exception: We have a talk show here which sometimes has a home
inspector as the guest. He's mentioned a few instances where he's inspected
homes that sat empty for quite some time before being sold, and that
somehow, mice end up in the ductwork. The clue is the mouse crap, and you
don't want that gradually turning to dust and mixing with your air. If a
duct inspection turns up anything other than the expected dust deposits,
they're worth cleaning.

"Sennin" wrote:

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

I had my ducts cleaned, but that is because I have had a lot of birds,
and they pulled a lot of debris out of the ducts.

The furnace should be inspected and cleaned every few years at least,
ducts maybe after a couple of decades, they don't get much dust under
normal conditions.

wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Your furnace heats air and that decreases the humidity.

Then again, an average family of 4 evaporate about 2 gallons
of water
per day. In an airtight house, the relative humidity would
quickly
rise to 100% in wintertime, limited by condensation on
windows.

A 2400 ft^2 1-story house contains 2400x8x0.075 = 1440 pounds
of air.
At 70 F and 100% RH, it would contain about 0.015832x1440 =
22.8
pounds of water vapor. A family of 4 could increase the RH
from 50
to 100% in
0.5x22.8/(2x8.33) = 0.68 days, ie 16.4 hours, or less, given a
few
more green plants and indoor window surfaces cooler than 70 F.

Forget the furnace. Caulk the house.

Nick

That -sounds- good; but it's a bunch of moldy bologna. Or if you
prefer, BS. You might enjoy a little math work here and there
but your treatment of realistic detail is dismal.
--
One should not be so philopotemic
lest they be seens as disputatious.

.... ... Homes
are not even close to airtight and I sure would not want to
live in
one. The space station is not a very comfortable place to
live.

Eggxactly one of the missing details in that anal-ysis; and
besides, you wouldn't live for -long- in one! But then, you
wouldn't be able to get in, either. Hmm, unless you sealed it up
from the inside? g GAK!

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
...
On 8 Jan 2005 02:21:37 -0800, "Sennin" wrote:

During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the
family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While
investigating, I thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the
furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total
of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I
have
also heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the
filter
picks up the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

Yeah.

You are a sucker for the charlatans and they will rob you
blind.

Don't let these quacks near your home.

Fred

Just one exception, and a comment: First, there are companies
that
will actually get the ducts clean, regardless of whether it's
necessary. That leads to the exception: We have a talk show
here
which sometimes has a home inspector as the guest. He's
mentioned a
few instances where he's inspected homes that sat empty for
quite
some time before being sold, and that somehow, mice end up in
the
ductwork. The clue is the mouse crap, and you don't want that
gradually turning to dust and mixing with your air. If a duct
inspection turns up anything other than the expected dust
deposits,
they're worth cleaning.

Sidelight:
When I was a kid, my folks used to drop coins into the registers
so I'd clean them. It worked, and I was sure to reach in far
enough to get any and all dust/paper clips, etc. that collected
in there, especially that great big square return register! They
had to force me the first time, but after that ... g
--
One should not be so philopotemic
lest they be seens as disputatious.

You ever sit in your backyard and have a cool beverage? All around
you are mice droppings turning to dust and you are breathing them into
your lungs along with millions of decaying animals and plants. How
about having your soil cleaned by your friendly reputable furnace man?

Idiot!






On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 17:10:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
On 8 Jan 2005 02:21:37 -0800, "Sennin" wrote:

During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

Yeah.

You are a sucker for the charlatans and they will rob you blind.

Don't let these quacks near your home.

Fred

Just one exception, and a comment: First, there are companies that will
actually get the ducts clean, regardless of whether it's necessary. That
leads to the exception: We have a talk show here which sometimes has a home
inspector as the guest. He's mentioned a few instances where he's inspected
homes that sat empty for quite some time before being sold, and that
somehow, mice end up in the ductwork. The clue is the mouse crap, and you
don't want that gradually turning to dust and mixing with your air. If a
duct inspection turns up anything other than the expected dust deposits,
they're worth cleaning.

'I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up the
dirt that would be in the duct.
Any thoughts on that?'

Seasonal furnace and a/c cleaning and maintenance is a necessity if you
want to prolong the equipment life and greatly reduce a crisis . As for
ductcleaning, 'if' you have allergies to dirt, spore, animal dander,
mold, dustmites, etc....ductcleaning is worthwhile -- especially if your
home is old. There are numerous ways which contractors clean ducts
ranging from the scam way of holding a leaf blower to each register (yep
!) ...to drilling 1" dia. holes every 5 feet in the main ducts then
using special circulating brushes in conjunction with a super powerful
vaccuum on a truck followed up by spraying the inside of the ducts with
a mold killing agent. You need to find out EXACTLY HOW they do the
ductcleaning so you dont get taken . If done correctly, it can have good
benefits.

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Then again, an average family of 4 evaporate about 2 gallons of water
per day. In an airtight house, the relative humidity would quickly
rise to 100% in wintertime, limited by condensation on windows.

An interesting thought, but I have never heard of a house coming
anywhere close to 100%.

Perhaps you live in an insular world.

Some Canadian houses are very airtight (eg 2.5 cfm for a 2400 ft^2 house.)
We recently saw one posting from a person in Ontario with such a house.
Some of us ridiculed his "confusion" as to how to reduce the indoor RH
with a small existing exhaust fan, without realizing that's a technique
recommended in Canadian building codes. Right now there's some concern
that people living in such houses are not aware their exhaust fans are
intended to be used for DEhumidification in wintertime.

It would be a very unusual home, even a very tight home to get up to a good
40-60% humidity level during winter in a cold climate without additional
humidification.

Agreed, in the US.

Homes are not even close to airtight

In the US. People in other countries are smarter :-)

and I sure would not want to live in one.

You might, with a simple automatic means for positive ventilation.

Caulk is not going to do it for most homes.

Caulk is a large part of the picture, along with
other means of air sealing and blower door testing.

Nick

Any difference between the volume of air outside and the volume of air
inside?

"Fred" wrote in message
news

You ever sit in your backyard and have a cool beverage? All around
you are mice droppings turning to dust and you are breathing them into
your lungs along with millions of decaying animals and plants. How
about having your soil cleaned by your friendly reputable furnace man?

Idiot!






On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 17:10:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Fred" wrote in message
. ..
On 8 Jan 2005 02:21:37 -0800, "Sennin" wrote:

During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

Yeah.

You are a sucker for the charlatans and they will rob you blind.

Don't let these quacks near your home.

Fred

Just one exception, and a comment: First, there are companies that will
actually get the ducts clean, regardless of whether it's necessary. That
leads to the exception: We have a talk show here which sometimes has a
home
inspector as the guest. He's mentioned a few instances where he's
inspected
homes that sat empty for quite some time before being sold, and that
somehow, mice end up in the ductwork. The clue is the mouse crap, and you
don't want that gradually turning to dust and mixing with your air. If a
duct inspection turns up anything other than the expected dust deposits,
they're worth cleaning.

During the winter, dryness is more of a problem. I'd suggest to try to find
a HVAC guy to install an Aprilaire (or equivilant) humidifier. The
humidifiers I'm used to installing go on the return air duct. they have a
round tube from the return to the supply air. And they hve a drain under the
humidifier.

I have a "floor model" humidifier in my trailer. Takes a galon or two of
water every day to keep thigns comfortable.

--

Christopher A. Young
This space intentionally left blank
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Sennin" wrote in message
ups.com...
During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating, I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

"Doug Kanter" wrote on 08 Jan 2005:

Any difference between the volume of air outside and the volume
of air inside?

Of course, and presumedly also in the number of mice.

--
Doug Boulter

To reply by e-mail, remove the obvious word from the e-mail address

My house is a 50 year old home, I decided to get the ducts cleaned
(about 450.00) by a recommended company. Turns out the intake ducts
(my house has 4) and are really the ones that get dirty. They suck in
all the air and some gets caught on the walls of the ducts themselves.
Over the years it builds up. The filter I have works great and the
exhaust ducts are pretty clean. Is you have a desire, you can
do it yourself but its a messy job.

Did I notice any more or less colds in the house? Na, only thing
I noticed that after the first heat of the season, it didnt
smell initially this year. Just fired it up and all was well.

Tom




Sennin wrote:
During wintertime, the furnace air has been drying out the family
sinuses. Also, we have been sick a few times. While investigating,
I
thought maybe it was a furnace issue.

I had a reputable furnace man out. He suggested having the furnace
cleaned/AC cleaned and each air duct cleaned. For a total of $500.

I have heard that the furnace/AC cleaning is a good idea. I have
also
heard that duct cleaning is just a scam, because the filter picks up
the dirt that would be in the duct.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks for all the imput.

Actually I wasn't asking for medical opinions. LOL.

The main point of the question was-- should the ducts be cleaned or is
it something that is unneccesary because the filter works fine.

The house is about 15 years old, but I have noticed some dust around
the vents. However, I changed the filter and it is an industrial
strength $40 one-- the size of an accordian. I guess it is always
useful to tune up the furnace and AC. At this point, it sounds like I
should pass on the vents for a while.

This also depends if you have animals, dust, pollen, smoke etc.
The intake vents anything and EVERYTHING in.

If you want to take a look and see how dirty they are, take one
of them off and get your hand in there. Wipe the walls.
You can then judge from that if you want to go for it.

Some of the dust around the vents may not be coming from the system. It may
be from the venturi effect.

When was you system serviced last?


"Sennin" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for all the imput.

Actually I wasn't asking for medical opinions. LOL.

The main point of the question was-- should the ducts be cleaned or is
it something that is unneccesary because the filter works fine.

The house is about 15 years old, but I have noticed some dust around
the vents. However, I changed the filter and it is an industrial
strength $40 one-- the size of an accordian. I guess it is always
useful to tune up the furnace and AC. At this point, it sounds like I
should pass on the vents for a while.

venturi effect? What is that?

I don't know last service. I moved in 2 years ago. I had a home
inspection done and it seemed ok.

'Actually I wasn't asking for medical opinions. LOL.
The main point of the question was-- should the ducts be cleaned or is
it something that is unneccesary because the filter works fine.'

ME: You should get the ducts cleaned IF you have a medical reason ....
such as allergys to mold, spore, animal dander, dustmites, etc... If
you dont, then i wouldnt waste the money. However....you may have a
couple pieces of drywall chunks in the ductwork leftover from
construction which could be affecting airflow., at least somewhat.

"Sennin" wrote in message
oups.com...
venturi effect? What is that?

I don't know last service. I moved in 2 years ago. I had a home
inspection done and it seemed ok.


I paid $150.00 for furnace inspection when I bought this house, using the
heating company I'd been with for 20 years. It's got a Goodman furnace,
which some people expressed some doubts about in this forum. The guy found
some installation mistakes, and repaired a couple of duct junctions which
were whistling. I think it was worth it.

On 10 Jan 2005 11:49:15 -0800, "Sennin" wrote:

venturi effect? What is that?

I don't know last service. I moved in 2 years ago. I had a home
inspection done and it seemed ok.

venturi effect = bull**** from someone that hasnt a clue
Inspection done = someone looked at it to make sure it was hopefully
in good working order.
Note: Inspectors/Inspections look at things. They dont clean them.
Your furnace needs at least annual cleaning.
Bubba

Right, skip the duct cleaning for now. Go wtih the humidifier.

--

Christopher A. Young
This space intentionally left blank
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Sennin" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for all the imput.

Actually I wasn't asking for medical opinions. LOL.

The main point of the question was-- should the ducts be cleaned or is
it something that is unneccesary because the filter works fine.

The house is about 15 years old, but I have noticed some dust around
the vents. However, I changed the filter and it is an industrial
strength $40 one-- the size of an accordian. I guess it is always
useful to tune up the furnace and AC. At this point, it sounds like I
should pass on the vents for a while.

"Sennin" wrote in message
oups.com...
venturi effect? What is that?

I don't know last service. I moved in 2 years ago. I had a home
inspection done and it seemed ok.


Despite what Bubba thinks, there is a Venturi effect. While I'd suggest a
google search, I'll try.

The naturally dusty air in your house will be moving around by air currents.
These currents will take the dusty air and blow it harder near the vents.
This may cause the dust to become attached to the registers and the nearby
walls.

An annual servicing and cleaning, if necessary, is a good idea.

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:39:59 -0500, "HeatMan"
wrote:


"Sennin" wrote in message
roups.com...
venturi effect? What is that?

I don't know last service. I moved in 2 years ago. I had a home
inspection done and it seemed ok.


Despite what Bubba thinks, there is a Venturi effect. While I'd suggest a
google search, I'll try.

The naturally dusty air in your house will be moving around by air currents.
These currents will take the dusty air and blow it harder near the vents.
This may cause the dust to become attached to the registers and the nearby
walls.

An annual servicing and cleaning, if necessary, is a good idea.


HeatMan,
Read what you are typing. You are explain the snake oil bull****.
While there is a word Venturi, and it is an actual and real effect,
the way you are explaining it and applying it to a heating system is
boloney. Surely you can come up with a better explaination than that.
Bubba :-)

wrote in message
...

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Then again, an average family of 4 evaporate about 2 gallons of water
per day. In an airtight house, the relative humidity would quickly
rise to 100% in wintertime, limited by condensation on windows.

An interesting thought, but I have never heard of a house coming
anywhere close to 100%.

Perhaps you live in an insular world.

Some Canadian houses are very airtight (eg 2.5 cfm for a 2400 ft^2 house.)
We recently saw one posting from a person in Ontario with such a house.
Some of us ridiculed his "confusion" as to how to reduce the indoor RH
with a small existing exhaust fan, without realizing that's a technique
recommended in Canadian building codes. Right now there's some concern
that people living in such houses are not aware their exhaust fans are
intended to be used for DEhumidification in wintertime.

It would be a very unusual home, even a very tight home to get up to a
good
40-60% humidity level during winter in a cold climate without additional
humidification.

Agreed, in the US.

Homes are not even close to airtight

In the US. People in other countries are smarter :-)

and I sure would not want to live in one.

You might, with a simple automatic means for positive ventilation.

Caulk is not going to do it for most homes.

Caulk is a large part of the picture, along with
other means of air sealing and blower door testing.

Nick

If you caulk the outside and make the home that tight ( which isn't going to
happen in an older home unless you use a fire hose) you will encounter mold
and condensation in the walls and actually increase your heating bills due
to conduction. If your going to seal any structure you always do it on the
warm side and not the cold side.

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:39:59 -0500, "HeatMan"
wrote:


"Sennin" wrote in message
groups.com...
venturi effect? What is that?

I don't know last service. I moved in 2 years ago. I had a home
inspection done and it seemed ok.


Despite what Bubba thinks, there is a Venturi effect. While I'd suggest a
google search, I'll try.

The naturally dusty air in your house will be moving around by air
currents.
These currents will take the dusty air and blow it harder near the vents.
This may cause the dust to become attached to the registers and the nearby
walls.

An annual servicing and cleaning, if necessary, is a good idea.


HeatMan,
Read what you are typing. You are explain the snake oil bull****.
While there is a word Venturi, and it is an actual and real effect,
the way you are explaining it and applying it to a heating system is
boloney. Surely you can come up with a better explaination than that.
Bubba :-)

I hate to jump into such a good argument, but the Venturi effect ( a
better term is aspiration") is real around registers and ducts. It is
covered in RSES heating courses and ASHRAE. Some call it "aspiration" "" a
drawing of something in, out, up, or through by or as if by suction:""

I have seen systems that use hepa filters and the ducts are spotless but
around the discharge register on the ceiling there are patterns of dust with
discoloration. What happens is the register blows and mix's with the air by
actually 'aspirating' the room air with supply air.

Rich

On 8 Jan 2005 15:51:13 -0500, wrote:


Joseph Meehan wrote:

Then again, an average family of 4 evaporate about 2 gallons of water
per day. In an airtight house, the relative humidity would quickly
rise to 100% in wintertime, limited by condensation on windows.

An interesting thought, but I have never heard of a house coming
anywhere close to 100%.

Perhaps you live in an insular world.

Some Canadian houses are very airtight (eg 2.5 cfm for a 2400 ft^2 house.)
We recently saw one posting from a person in Ontario with such a house.
Some of us ridiculed his "confusion" as to how to reduce the indoor RH
with a small existing exhaust fan, without realizing that's a technique
recommended in Canadian building codes. Right now there's some concern
that people living in such houses are not aware their exhaust fans are
intended to be used for DEhumidification in wintertime.

It would be a very unusual home, even a very tight home to get up to a good
40-60% humidity level during winter in a cold climate without additional
humidification.

Agreed, in the US.

Homes are not even close to airtight

In the US. People in other countries are smarter :-)

and I sure would not want to live in one.

You might, with a simple automatic means for positive ventilation.

So - in a typical US house, when would one put in a Heat Recovery
Ventilator vs an Energy Recovery Ventilator (captures humidity) to
deal with air exchange and freshness issues? Is there an
infiltration rate that would suggest and ERV over a plain jane HRV?

Caulk is not going to do it for most homes.

Caulk is a large part of the picture, along with
other means of air sealing and blower door testing.

Nick


Karl Pearson

Thanks, Geo.

"geoman" wrote in message
...

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:39:59 -0500, "HeatMan"
wrote:


"Sennin" wrote in message
groups.com...
venturi effect? What is that?

I don't know last service. I moved in 2 years ago. I had a home
inspection done and it seemed ok.


Despite what Bubba thinks, there is a Venturi effect. While I'd suggest
a
google search, I'll try.

The naturally dusty air in your house will be moving around by air
currents.
These currents will take the dusty air and blow it harder near the
vents.
This may cause the dust to become attached to the registers and the
nearby
walls.

An annual servicing and cleaning, if necessary, is a good idea.


HeatMan,
Read what you are typing. You are explain the snake oil bull****.
While there is a word Venturi, and it is an actual and real effect,
the way you are explaining it and applying it to a heating system is
boloney. Surely you can come up with a better explaination than that.
Bubba :-)

I hate to jump into such a good argument, but the Venturi effect ( a
better term is aspiration") is real around registers and ducts. It is
covered in RSES heating courses and ASHRAE. Some call it "aspiration" ""
a
drawing of something in, out, up, or through by or as if by suction:""

I have seen systems that use hepa filters and the ducts are spotless but
around the discharge register on the ceiling there are patterns of dust
with
discoloration. What happens is the register blows and mix's with the air
by
actually 'aspirating' the room air with supply air.


Okay, so I wasn't using the correct term.
Rich

The filter only covers the air that is being blown OUT of the
vents, that is usually clean in the first place. The air
that is being sucked in is the problem. The intake registers do NOT
have filters on them.


Stormin Mormon wrote:
Right, skip the duct cleaning for now. Go wtih the humidifier.

--

Christopher A. Young
This space intentionally left blank
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Sennin" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for all the imput.

Actually I wasn't asking for medical opinions. LOL.

The main point of the question was-- should the ducts be cleaned or
is
it something that is unneccesary because the filter works fine.

The house is about 15 years old, but I have noticed some dust around
the vents. However, I changed the filter and it is an industrial
strength $40 one-- the size of an accordian. I guess it is always
useful to tune up the furnace and AC. At this point, it sounds like
I
should pass on the vents for a while.

Thanks is correct. Geo got it right. You didnt, HeatMan. You might
want to look up the definitions for venturi and aspiration.
Venturi is a tube with a taper.
Aspiration will happen in a conventional system although very very
little. A high velocity system like space-pak or Unico relies soley on
aspiration. Thats why they almost dont care where the return grille
gets put and it doesnt need a return in each room to work. Try that
with a conventional system. It wont work well at all.
Bubba

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:57:02 -0500, "HeatMan"
wrote:

Thanks, Geo.

"geoman" wrote in message
...

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:39:59 -0500, "HeatMan"
wrote:


"Sennin" wrote in message
groups.com...
venturi effect? What is that?

I don't know last service. I moved in 2 years ago. I had a home
inspection done and it seemed ok.


Despite what Bubba thinks, there is a Venturi effect. While I'd suggest
a
google search, I'll try.

The naturally dusty air in your house will be moving around by air
currents.
These currents will take the dusty air and blow it harder near the
vents.
This may cause the dust to become attached to the registers and the
nearby
walls.

An annual servicing and cleaning, if necessary, is a good idea.


HeatMan,
Read what you are typing. You are explain the snake oil bull****.
While there is a word Venturi, and it is an actual and real effect,
the way you are explaining it and applying it to a heating system is
boloney. Surely you can come up with a better explaination than that.
Bubba :-)

I hate to jump into such a good argument, but the Venturi effect ( a
better term is aspiration") is real around registers and ducts. It is
covered in RSES heating courses and ASHRAE. Some call it "aspiration" ""
a
drawing of something in, out, up, or through by or as if by suction:""

I have seen systems that use hepa filters and the ducts are spotless but
around the discharge register on the ceiling there are patterns of dust
with
discoloration. What happens is the register blows and mix's with the air
by
actually 'aspirating' the room air with supply air.


Okay, so I wasn't using the correct term.
Rich

Hello Friend ) said...

As for ductcleaning, 'if' you have allergies to dirt, spore, animal dander,
mold, dustmites, etc....ductcleaning is worthwhile -- especially if your
home is old.

You might be doing yourself a disservice.

In the 1990's, the CMHC in Canada and the EPA in the USA conducted
research and found there was little, if any improvement in air
quality resulting from duct cleaning. The basic reason is that ducts
are just passages for air -- there is no source of dust in ducts, while
there is in the rest of your house.

You can download a paper on this at
https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca:50104/b2...op=Z01EN&areaI
D=0000000016&productID=00000000160000000017

Another document is available at
http://www.cmhc.ca/publications/en/r...ech/95-205.pdf

In a quick glance at these documents, I couldn't find reference to this, but
I have heard that one study the CMHC did found that the cleaning process
can kick up a dust problem as build-up in ducts tends to remain in the ducts.
When it is disturbed, it becomes airborn again -- sort of like what can
happen with some asbestos situations: nothing harmful until it is disturbed.

--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence."
- Napoleon
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