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How to Extend 5 Phone Lines by 15-ft?
How can I extend five phone lines by 15-ft each?
I am in the process of re-organizing the telephone connections at the central panel. Currently, all five phone lines coming from various rooms in my house home run into a distribution block in an area in the basement. Originally, this was OK. Unfortunately, when I finished the basement, I didn't take that area into account, and now that area is very hard to reach. I plan to move the distribution block to a different area that is easily accessible. The problem is that four out of five phone lines don't have any slack; this means I cannot move them to the new location without extending them somehow. What is the right way to extend them? Should I use a phone-line junction box? Should I use wire-nuts? Should I use something called Scotchlok connectors in place of wire nuts? Should I turn the end of the phone line into a plug and use a phone line coupler? Phone line junction box seems to be a logical choice especially for a phone line that has 2-pairs of wires (4 wires total); a junction box is designed to handle 4-wires anyway; this will be a perfect fit. But one phone line has 4-pairs of wire (8 wires total) (it is probably a cat-5 cable). If I use a junction box for a 8-wire phone line, I will lose the potential future use of 4 wires. Should I use phone line junction box for the lines that have 2-pairs of wires and use cat-5 coupler and plugs for the line that has 4-pairs of wires? Please note that the junction area will be hidden behind ceiling tiles; therefore, appearance is not an issue. Thanks in advance for any suggestion. Jay Chan |
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wrote:
How can I extend five phone lines by 15-ft each? Invest in a punch-down tool and buy a punch down block. http://www.action-electronics.com/pps66.htm This is just first look I tried from a Google search, lots of people sell this stuff. The block that comes up here is for a 25-pair block, you only need a block capable of handling 5. The smaller ones probably exist for sale, but the 25-pair ones are the most popular, may actually cost less. You can skip buying the "shorting clips" by just punching your own shorting jumpers down the middle (from scrap wire). I've seen the actual tools a *lot* cheaper than the one they sell here, I think you can get one for $20. Find one spot where all existing lines pass (or you can get them to if you re-route.) Install the punch block there. Leave the block with 2 runs of network cable (4 pair each) and run those to your new termination point. You'll have 3 spare pairs, no law against that. Telco wire is VERY forgiving of splices... No shorts + no opens = it will work. That's the way they do it in the real world, a zillion times a day. -- The real Tom Pendergast [ So if you meet me, have some courtesy, aka I-zheet M'drurz [ have some sympathy, and some taste. Accept no substitutes! [ Use all your well-learned politesse, $1 to Mick for the .sig ---[ or I'll lay your soul to waste. |
#3
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You omitted some needed informatiom to be certain of a response
being applicable. It -sounds- like you have all analog telephones. But you mentioned CAT-5, which is for digital telephone communications. Or, the CAT-5 may have just been installed when the house was built, and that's what you're now changing, but then you indicate a mix of CAT-5 and other phone wires. An analog phone sysem will have an "REN" stamped on the bottom of it. There is about 40 - 50 VDC between the two used wires, which drops to 6-12 VDC or so when you pick up the phone, and 110Vac during ringing voltages (phone ringing). Digital lines may or may not show you any DC voltage on them, and it will be very low compared to analog lines.Maximum current possible under short circuit will be 100 mA or less when the phones are hung up and not ringing. IFF these are -analog- phone lines, you can use about any method you want to to extend them. Splices can be made with whatever you wish to use. Analog only needs two wires, the center two in the jacks. IFF they are digital phone lines, then you need to use CAT-5 connectors (maybe a box from Radio Shack). Don't try to do those by twisting wires because there is an impedance to the cable that depends on wiring positions and spacing, and it must be maintained for best operation of the phones. Simplest way would be just buy a single box for each line, or a gang box, and plug the original lines into it, the plug your extended wiring into the other side, and you're done. CAT-5 on digital lines often uses an 8 pin jack/plugs and the color codes vary. 4 wires minimum are used in a functioning CAT-5 cable. Inside two and outside two. Do NOT mix 6 pin (analog) and 8 pin (digital) systems together. If it's 8, use 8. If it's 6, use 6. And LABEL and record every wire connection for future repairs/expansions etc. You'll be glad you did. Kits are available to crimp plugs & jacks onto the applicable phone cords. HTH Pop wrote: How can I extend five phone lines by 15-ft each? I am in the process of re-organizing the telephone connections at the central panel. Currently, all five phone lines coming from various rooms in my house home run into a distribution block in an area in the basement. Originally, this was OK. Unfortunately, when I finished the basement, I didn't take that area into account, and now that area is very hard to reach. I plan to move the distribution block to a different area that is easily accessible. The problem is that four out of five phone lines don't have any slack; this means I cannot move them to the new location without extending them somehow. What is the right way to extend them? Should I use a phone-line junction box? Should I use wire-nuts? Should I use something called Scotchlok connectors in place of wire nuts? Should I turn the end of the phone line into a plug and use a phone line coupler? Phone line junction box seems to be a logical choice especially for a phone line that has 2-pairs of wires (4 wires total); a junction box is designed to handle 4-wires anyway; this will be a perfect fit. But one phone line has 4-pairs of wire (8 wires total) (it is probably a cat-5 cable). If I use a junction box for a 8-wire phone line, I will lose the potential future use of 4 wires. Should I use phone line junction box for the lines that have 2-pairs of wires and use cat-5 coupler and plugs for the line that has 4-pairs of wires? Please note that the junction area will be hidden behind ceiling tiles; therefore, appearance is not an issue. Thanks in advance for any suggestion. Jay Chan |
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I-zheet M'drurz wrote:
wrote: How can I extend five phone lines by 15-ft each? .... Telco wire is VERY forgiving of splices... No shorts + no opens = it will work. That's the way they do it in the real world, a zillion times a day. .... Umm, unless it's a digital phone line from the telco. More and more showing up all the time now. Or even DSL, which is digital, but uses analog lines, but it's not necessarily all that forgiving of bad splicing habits. Pop |
#6
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Jay, I am guessing you have a "66" block now. If the phone copmpany was doing
it they would leave that 66 and punch down another one in the new location ... assuming you can keep that accessible without tearing up too much "building finish". If they did seal it up they would use 10 pink ladies. Shrink tube and solder works too. |
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#8
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RBM wrote:
"HorneTD" wrote in message k.net... wrote: How can I extend five phone lines by 15-ft each? I am in the process of re-organizing the telephone connections at the central panel. Currently, all five phone lines coming from various rooms in my house home run into a distribution block in an area in the basement. Originally, this was OK. Unfortunately, when I finished the basement, I didn't take that area into account, and now that area is very hard to reach. I plan to move the distribution block to a different area that is easily accessible. The problem is that four out of five phone lines don't have any slack; this means I cannot move them to the new location without extending them somehow. What is the right way to extend them? Should I use a phone-line junction box? Should I use wire-nuts? Should I use something called Scotchlok connectors in place of wire nuts? Should I turn the end of the phone line into a plug and use a phone line coupler? Phone line junction box seems to be a logical choice especially for a phone line that has 2-pairs of wires (4 wires total); a junction box is designed to handle 4-wires anyway; this will be a perfect fit. But one phone line has 4-pairs of wire (8 wires total) (it is probably a cat-5 cable). If I use a junction box for a 8-wire phone line, I will lose the potential future use of 4 wires. Should I use phone line junction box for the lines that have 2-pairs of wires and use cat-5 coupler and plugs for the line that has 4-pairs of wires? Please note that the junction area will be hidden behind ceiling tiles; therefore, appearance is not an issue. Thanks in advance for any suggestion. Jay Chan I would suggest that you buy the button type of Insulation Displacing Connectors (IDCs) and use them to splice on new cable segments on a wire for wire basis. The advantages of the IDCs is that you can apply them without any special tool and they take up less space then a 66 block. You then wire the extended cables to a 66M block that is installed at the new junction location. It is customary to wire the incoming lines to the left side of the 66 bock and then bridge those lines down to additional rows on the same side to match the telephone stations each line will serve. The telephone station wiring is then connected to the pins on the opposite side of the 66M block with one wire per row. Only one conductor is punched down onto any given pin. The bridging clips are used to connect the incoming telco wiring to the interior station wiring. This is done to make trouble shooting easier because removing the bridging clips will isolate any individual station wiring from the outside plant and all other internal station wiring. -- Tom H If you can't relocate the five lines to an area where you can set up a punch block, 3M makes gel filled crimp on splices for telephone wire. just stick unstripped wires into crimp and squeeze with plier. great contact with no oxidation Those wouldn't be the IDCs I mentioned in the post to which you replied would they. Why yes they would. Is there an echo in here echo in here echo in here. -- Tom H |
#9
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Greg posted for all of us....
pink ladies. Never heard this term. What are they? -- Tekkie |
#10
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Subject: How to Extend 5 Phone Lines by 15-ft?
Newsgroup: alt.home.repair = = wrote: How can I extend five phone lines by 15-ft each? You can use a 66 block or B-connectors or Scotchlock connectors. I wouldn't use wirenuts. -- -Graham Remove the 'snails' from my email |
#11
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"G. Morgan" wrote in message ... Subject: How to Extend 5 Phone Lines by 15-ft? Newsgroup: alt.home.repair = = wrote: How can I extend five phone lines by 15-ft each? You can use a 66 block or B-connectors or Scotchlock connectors. They still make B-connectors, aka pigeon-peckers? I wouldn't use wirenuts. -- -Graham Remove the 'snails' from my email -- Herb |
#12
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Subject: How to Extend 5 Phone Lines by 15-ft?
Newsgroup: alt.home.repair = Herb Stein = wrote: You can use a 66 block or B-connectors or Scotchlock connectors. They still make B-connectors, aka pigeon-peckers? I use them every day. Never heard them called "pigeon-peckers!" AKA: beans peanuts bb's http://www.elkproducts.com/products/elk-902-2.htm -- -Graham Remove the 'snails' from my email |
#13
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Invest in a punch-down tool and buy a punch down block.
http://www.action-electronics.com/pps66.htm Actually I know about the punch down block that you are referring to. I am planning to install a punch down 110-distribution-block in the new location. I just didn't think of using it as a large junction box. I must admit that using it as a junction box is very attractive. But I can see that I would have a hard time getting it in place in the junction location (cannot see the wires individually). I think I will use a jack-and-plug combo to join two sections of phone line. This probably will have the least amount of untwisted wires (not that this makes a difference for voice-grade phone line). Thanks for your suggestion anyway. Jay Chan |
#14
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It -sounds- like you have all analog telephones.
But you mentioned CAT-5, which is for digital telephone communications. All the phone lines are for analog use. The DSL line is not involved in this discussion because the phone company has added a DSL splitter box to separate the DSL line from all the other phone lines that are strictly for voices. Most of the phone lines are old style 4 wires version (red/green/black/yellow). However, there is one line that has 8 wires. I believe it is the recently installed phone line that an electrician installed it for me two years ago. The recently installed line is also for voice only. Actually, I don't know if it is a cat-5 cable or not; I was just guessing based on the fact that it has 8 wires. Don't try to do those by twisting wires because there is an impedance to the cable that depends on wiring positions and spacing, and it must be maintained for best operation of the phones. Simplest way would be just buy a single box for each line, or a gang box, and plug the original lines into it, the plug your extended wiring into the other side, and you're done. I think you are right in saying this. Last night, I tried to use a junction box to connect two phone lines by twisting wires together, and I didn't like it. This was time consuming. I had a feeling that the physical connection was not that great. And I will have a long section of untwisted wires inside the junction box. Of course, I disconnected it. I think I will use a jack-and-plug pair to connect two sections of phone lines together, and house all the jack-and-plug combos in a box or something. I have already had a 110 punch down tool anyway, and I find that making connection to a jack and plug is quite simple. Thanks for the suggestion. Jay Chan |
#15
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The phone company had a 66-block look-alike thing in the old location.
I have no idea if it is a 66 block or not. But the "teeth" in the block look the same as those in a "66 Block Split M" from Leviton. Mine has 6 rows of teeth and 6 teeth in each row. Anyway, the use of that 66 block will require me to work with that block in the original location. This is hard to do in the original location -- tough to see each wire individually (may be my old eyes). This is exactly the thing that I try to avoid doing. As mentioned in other of my posts, I will use a jack-and-plug pair to connect two sections of phone lines. Thanks anyway. Jay Chan |
#16
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I would suggest that you buy the button type of Insulation Displacing
Connectors (IDCs) and use them to splice on new cable segments on a wire for wire basis. The advantages of the IDCs is that you can apply them without any special tool and they take up less space then a 66 block. I am not exactly sure if I understand you correctly. The term "IDC" seems to be relevant to the use of a 110 block. The IDC seems to be the connection point in a 110 block. Are you suggesting that I should use a 110 block instead of a 66 block? BTW, I intend to install a 110 Distribution Block in the new location. Therefore, 110 block is not foreign to me. I am just not sure if the IDC that you are referring to imply the use of a 110 block. I was wondering why they use those bridging clips instead of using wires when I was reading the instruction of a 66 Split M Block. Thanks for the explanation. Jay Chan |
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Thanks. This means I have many options available (just don't use wire
nuts). Currently, I plan to use a jack-and-plug pair to connect two sections of phone lines together. If this approach somehow doesn't work well, I will consider using Scotchlock connectors. Jay Chan |
#19
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As the previous poster stated IDC stands for Insulation Displacing
Connector. 66 Blocks and 110 blocks are both one type of IDC. IDC connections for telephone applications are highly reliable and are used throughout th US Phone system. The 110 block was developed to be a higher density block replacement for the 66 block. To my knowledge, for your application, the only advantage of the 110 block is size. I would guess that the bridging clips were used because it is faster and neater for the installer to use. I would also recommend using the button IDC connector since you do not require cat 5 performance. wrote: I would suggest that you buy the button type of Insulation Displacing Connectors (IDCs) and use them to splice on new cable segments on a wire for wire basis. The advantages of the IDCs is that you can apply them without any special tool and they take up less space then a 66 block. I am not exactly sure if I understand you correctly. The term "IDC" seems to be relevant to the use of a 110 block. The IDC seems to be the connection point in a 110 block. Are you suggesting that I should use a 110 block instead of a 66 block? BTW, I intend to install a 110 Distribution Block in the new location. Therefore, 110 block is not foreign to me. I am just not sure if the IDC that you are referring to imply the use of a 110 block. I was wondering why they use those bridging clips instead of using wires when I was reading the instruction of a 66 Split M Block. Thanks for the explanation. Jay Chan |
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I saw those IDC before in Home Depot, and I was wondering what they
were. Thanks for the link and your explanation. BTW, I got the plugs for making cat-6 patch-cables from the same web page. Seem like those IDC are great for fixing a small number of individual wires, and their crimping tool is quite low price. This is good. In my case, I need to connect the wires of 5 phone lines; I would have a large number of IDCs hanging around if I used IDCs to connect those phone lines (because I want to connect all wires in each phone line, not just 2 wires each). Therefore, I likely will pass on this one. However, this info will come in handy when I need to fix a small number of wires. Thanks. Jay Chan |
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Thanks for pointing out that 110 block is smaller than a 66 block.
Actually, I choose 110 block instead of a 66 block not for its smaller size. My reasons a - I don't want to buy a 66 punch down tool when I have already had a 110 punch down tool that I use for home networking. - The 110 block kit comes with all the other accessories that I need. The 66 block only comes with the block itself. And they are the same price (actually 110 block kit is slightly cheaper). - Leviton.com suggest people to use 110 block instead of 66 block (Funny thing is that I could not find their excellent installation instruction of their 110 block from their search tool; I ended up need to find it indirectly from a third party web site). In fact, a big 66 block probably is easier for our eyes than a small 110 block. Jay Chan |
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wrote:
Thanks. This means I have many options available (just don't use wire nuts). Currently, I plan to use a jack-and-plug pair to connect two sections of phone lines together. If this approach somehow doesn't work well, I will consider using Scotchlock connectors. I'd use good 'ol twist-n-solder with heatshrink tubing over the splice. Excellent connectivity, you can maintain the twisted-pair turns, water resistant, low bulk, nice looking, cheap.... http://www.teamnovak.com/How_to/How_...der/solder.htm |
#23
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Thanks for pointing out one of the alternative of connecting two
sections of phone lines together. I probably will not do this though because there are too many wires involved to solder together. But I have a feeling that this can be a good choice if I need to connect two sections of audio cables together (two wires involved). Jay Chan |
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#25
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wrote:
Thanks for pointing out one of the alternative of connecting two sections of phone lines together. I probably will not do this though because there are too many wires involved to solder together. But I have a feeling that this can be a good choice if I need to connect two sections of audio cables together (two wires involved). Jay Chan Upon a second reading of your original post it appears that you may have only one or two phone lines coming in to your house. Is that right? If so, you can terminate the five 'home run' circuits together with any simple junction bos (you might even use one with an RJ-11 connector on it like this) and then run just one pair (two pair if you have a second line) to the telco demarc point. http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?sku=5087045 Or am I misreading your post (again)? Also, here is a good primer on the subject: http://www3.sympatico.ca/bparker/index1.html#03 |
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Tekkie posted for all of us....
Greg posted for all of us.... pink ladies. Never heard this term. What are they? Could you provide a picture or reference to these? Pink ladies B connectors -- Tekkie |
#27
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Actually, your twist-and-solder approach seems to be very good. Better
than the plug-and-jack approach that I was thinking of doing. I thought there were many wires involved. But when I think about this, there are only 4 wires per cable, not that many wires to deal with after all. Moreover, the heat-shrink-tubs are very inexpensive. I will try this approach in this weekend. Thanks for the suggestion. I don't want to home run all the cables to one block and then extend one cable from the block. I don't want to do this. The reason is that I need the flexibilty of easily assigning the dedicated DSL line to any one of the phone outlet. If I grouped the cables from all the outlets together, this would become all-or-nothing. I may move the computer into the basement, or I may decide to leave the computer in the master bed-room, and I need the DSL line to go with the computer (and I only have one computer for now). Therefore, I need the flexibility to mix-and-match the DSL line to any one of the outlet. Jay Chan |
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#30
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Split the dsl filtered line on to line 1 and feed the unfiltered to
line 2. The telephone company has already installed a DSL-splitter that splits one incoming phone line into a line for DSL and another line for all the analog phones. Then I don't need to use filter on those analog phones. Is this what you are referring to? Then pop down to radio shack for a line1/2 splitter and keep that with your DSL modem. Is it like an one-to-two adapter that we can use to plug the DSL modem in one jack and a regular phone in another jack in the adapter? In where I am going to put my computer, I have already had a phone jack for DSL and another phone jack for analog phone; therefore, I don't need an one-to-two adapter. However, if I later on decide to move my computer elsewhere, I may need that adapter because I only have one phone jack in all the other locations in my house. Thanks for pointing this out. Of course, If you already have 2 land lines, this obviously will not work. I only have one land line (with 2 physical wires inside the cable). Therefore, this will apply if I decide to move my computer to a different location. Jay Chan |
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#32
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Just to be sure of your setup:
The phone company side of the line should be a single pair of wires. They took this pair to a filter and split it into 2 lines, one DSL filtered (for voice) and one not (data). You now have two pairs of wires Exactly. The distribution block in your basment should have some sort of terminal connections for those 2 pairs. Most of the feeds for the house will go to the "filtered" side. The feed for your computer room will go to the "data" side. Close. The only difference is that the existing distribution block only deals with lines for voice. The data line goes its own way. Are the feeds single pair, or double (or more) pair? Not so sure what you mean by "feeds"? If it is the incoming phone line from the phone company, it only has one cable that has 6 pairs inside. Only one pair is being used. The rest are cut off and rolled up. If the feeds that you are referring to are the phone lines leading from the distribution block to phone outlets, they are all either cat-1 or cat-3 cables that have 2 pairs in each cable (there is one cat-3 with 4 pairs). The lines that I want to extend are the lines leading to phone outlets. I need to move the distribution block to a more convenient location; but the phone lines are too short. I will use the twist-solder-and-heat-shrink-tubs approach to attach an extension to each line line. Or, you can do what we did and go wireless. (modem and access point sit at a single station and all computers have access. I think you are referring to wireless computer connection, not cordless phone connection. Wireless should be fine for internet connection. But I need the computer connection to stream video. The current wireless standard is simply not good enough for video according to people who have tried this. Even the A+G standard is just the minimum, not for the best result (according to what I read from Microsoft web site related to their Media Center Extender such as those from LinkSys and HP). Therefore, I have chosen the safe-bet, and installed wire through out most of my house. This whole house wiring project will be done as soon as I am done with the phone line connection (I am not familiar with phone wiring). This is the thing that is holding the project back. The latest pre-N wireless standard may be quite good for streaming video. But I am not very sure. I guess we will hear more about the pre-N and the final-N standards in the coming years. Thanks for sharing your thought. Jay Chan |
#33
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A little more research yields that CTC is "climate technology
corporation" (800 676 7861) and that it is currently handled by www.hunterfans.com. I do not see my model (which is a "5+2" model) They seem to have 7 day models which would fit our lifestyle better though... might have to look at them. -- be safe. flip Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch? Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+") |
#34
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whoops...
wrong thread... sorry! |
#35
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I'd use good 'ol twist-n-solder with heatshrink
tubing over the splice. Excellent connectivity, you can maintain the twisted-pair turns, water resistant, low bulk, nice looking, cheap.... I took your advice and extend the existing phone lines using twisting-soldering-and-heat-shrink-tubing. This way works great and is much cheaper than the jack-and-plug approach that I originally planned to do. Everything works (voice/DSL) after I have extended the phone lines and relocate the control panel to an easily accessible location. I just feel great when everything works. The downside of using the twisting-and-soldering approach is that I cannot twist the pair together. And I see no way to even attempt to twist the pair together if there are two or more pairs of wires in the cable. The result is that I end up having a long section (around 4") of untwisted pair of wires. This is probably not good for more demanding application (such as computer networking). But this doesn't seem to cause any problem with phone-connection and DSL connection. If I was trying to extend a section of cable for computer networking, I would likely choose jack-and-plug approach that can have very short section of untwisted wiring (like 1" or less). My home wiring project is still not 100% done yet. But getting the phone central panel to the correct location and having the panel organized is a good step forward. Thanks for your suggestion. Jay Chan |
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#37
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I cannot picture how offsetting the splices of the two pairs of wire
can maintain the twist. Do you mean let one wire of the first pair to bundle together with the second pair before twisting with the second wire of the first pair? Thanks for any info on this topic. Jay Chan |
#38
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