OK. This all started when I went to replace a lighting fixture in the
bathroom. It worked fine but it was ugly, so I bought a new fixture,
hit the breaker, and pulled the old one off the wall. Because I'd done
really basic upgrades before, I didn't pay much attention to how the
old one was wired, but once I got it off the wall, I realized that I
had TWO cables (each containing a white, black and raw wire) coming in
to either side of the junction box. That means TWO white wires, TWO
black ones, TWO raw (uncoated, whatever) ones.

Needless to say, after trying loads of different combinations, I have
no idea how to get either the old light or the new light to work again.
If I connect fixture white - white (left side) and fixture black -
(left side), I can get the light to come back on, however the light
switch won't turn it off. It should be noted that fixture white -
white (right side) and fixture black - black (right side) does
absolutely nothing. And yet the right side is closer to the light
switch, so I'm assuming it has relevance here...

I've tried connecting all the whites and all the blacks to no avail.
This light switch worked at one time - what am I doing wrong?
Thanks,

MP.

On 20 Dec 2004 18:56:54 -0800 "markp"
used 25 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.home.repair

I've tried connecting all the whites and all the blacks to no avail.
This light switch worked at one time - what am I doing wrong?

Working on your own electrical appliances without a clue.



--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Thanks for the help, Graham!

Thanks for the help, Ignoramus!

markp wrote:
OK. This all started when I went to replace a lighting fixture in the
bathroom. It worked fine but it was ugly, so I bought a new fixture,
hit the breaker, and pulled the old one off the wall. Because I'd done
really basic upgrades before, I didn't pay much attention to how the
old one was wired, but once I got it off the wall, I realized that I
had TWO cables (each containing a white, black and raw wire) coming in
to either side of the junction box. That means TWO white wires, TWO
black ones, TWO raw (uncoated, whatever) ones.

Needless to say, after trying loads of different combinations, I have
no idea how to get either the old light or the new light to work
again. If I connect fixture white - white (left side) and fixture
black - (left side), I can get the light to come back on, however
the light switch won't turn it off. It should be noted that fixture
white - white (right side) and fixture black - black (right side)
does absolutely nothing. And yet the right side is closer to the light
switch, so I'm assuming it has relevance here...

I've tried connecting all the whites and all the blacks to no avail.
This light switch worked at one time - what am I doing wrong?
Thanks,

MP.

You are wiring them wrong and you don't know why. I fear that you don't
have the skill and knowledge to safely resolve the problem. You need to do
a little investigation of the problem. An easy job for anyone who has the
skills and knowledge to do the job safely.

Please do yourself, your family and your insurance company a favor and
have the work done professionally. It will be a small charge and well worth
it. If you keep trying things you are going to get hurt and if you make an
error you could leave a potentially deadly trap for the next person to work
on it and maybe a fire hazard for the near future.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Check the wires at the switch box. If there are only 1 Blk & 1
Wht
in the box both wired to the switch,
then do this:

Left Blk-----------(splice)-----------Right
Blk------SwitchBlk

LeftWht-----FixtureWht///FixtureBlk-----RightWht------SwitchWht

indicate current flow so you get idea how this works.

Does the fixture have a Green (ground) wire ? It should be spliced
in with the "raw" wires.

Turn the breaker off before handling any of the wires!

Try one cable's black and white to the light and see if it lights. Then try the
other pair.
If one lights it up and the other doesn't mark the one that does.
Next, just as a sanity check, look at the switch and see if it has one white
and one black.
If so you probably have a hot pair and a switch loop that is your other pair
(the one that didn't light up).
If this is not all true. stop!
If this is all true connect the "hot" black to the switch loop white.
Connect the "hot" white to the light white and the switch loop black to the
light black.
If this works you are almost done.
Take some black tape or a black marker and mark out that white that you have
connected to the black so you can find it next time.

If any of this doesn't seem true get back to us.

Thanks Reed - that works perfectly.

Thanks Reed - that works perfectly.

Thanks Reed - that works perfectly.


Mark, having struggled through this repair successfully (no deaths, no
injuries, no damage)
I suggest you reflect on the process, if you're interested in getting better at
this type of stuff.

first, what mistake did you make from the get-go?

second, did you really understand Reed's explanation or just "luck into" the
result?

considering the $'s you saved DIY, did you buy that electrical book?

"be a home electrician" and start reading it?

Do you understand the concept of a switch leg?

Becomming an accomplished DIY'r requires effort otherwise it's just one unknow
situation after anoither.

cheers

Bob K 207 wrote:
Thanks Reed - that works perfectly.


Mark, having struggled through this repair successfully (no deaths,
no
injuries, no damage)
I suggest you reflect on the process, if you're interested in getting
better at
this type of stuff.

first, what mistake did you make from the get-go?

second, did you really understand Reed's explanation or just "luck
into" the
result?

considering the $'s you saved DIY, did you buy that electrical book?

"be a home electrician" and start reading it?

Do you understand the concept of a switch leg?

Becomming an accomplished DIY'r requires effort otherwise it's just
one unknow
situation after anoither.

cheers

Fair points, Bob. Thanks for the thoughtful post.

Bob K 207 wrote:
Thanks Reed - that works perfectly.


Mark, having struggled through this repair successfully (no deaths,
no
injuries, no damage)
I suggest you reflect on the process, if you're interested in getting
better at
this type of stuff.

first, what mistake did you make from the get-go?

second, did you really understand Reed's explanation or just "luck
into" the
result?

considering the $'s you saved DIY, did you buy that electrical book?

"be a home electrician" and start reading it?

Do you understand the concept of a switch leg?

Becomming an accomplished DIY'r requires effort otherwise it's just
one unknow
situation after anoither.

cheers

Fair points, Bob. Thanks for the thoughtful post.

trying all wire combinations.. hmmm..

this seems somewhat like using a lighter to see if the gas can is full...

randy

"markp" wrote in message
ups.com...

OK. This all started when I went to replace a lighting fixture in the
bathroom. It worked fine but it was ugly, so I bought a new fixture,
hit the breaker, and pulled the old one off the wall. Because I'd done
really basic upgrades before, I didn't pay much attention to how the
old one was wired, but once I got it off the wall, I realized that I
had TWO cables (each containing a white, black and raw wire) coming in
to either side of the junction box. That means TWO white wires, TWO
black ones, TWO raw (uncoated, whatever) ones.

Needless to say, after trying loads of different combinations, I have
no idea how to get either the old light or the new light to work again.
If I connect fixture white - white (left side) and fixture black -
(left side), I can get the light to come back on, however the light
switch won't turn it off. It should be noted that fixture white -
white (right side) and fixture black - black (right side) does
absolutely nothing. And yet the right side is closer to the light
switch, so I'm assuming it has relevance here...

I've tried connecting all the whites and all the blacks to no avail.
This light switch worked at one time - what am I doing wrong?
Thanks,

MP.

From: "markp"

OK. This all started when I went to replace a lighting fixture in the
bathroom. It worked fine but it was ugly, so I bought a new fixture,
hit the breaker, and pulled the old one off the wall. Because I'd done
really basic upgrades before, I didn't pay much attention to how the
old one was wired, but once I got it off the wall, I realized that I
had TWO cables (each containing a white, black and raw wire) coming in
to either side of the junction box. That means TWO white wires, TWO
black ones, TWO raw (uncoated, whatever) ones.

Needless to say, after trying loads of different combinations, I have
no idea how to get either the old light or the new light to work again.
If I connect fixture white - white (left side) and fixture black -
(left side), I can get the light to come back on, however the light
switch won't turn it off. It should be noted that fixture white -
white (right side) and fixture black - black (right side) does
absolutely nothing. And yet the right side is closer to the light
switch, so I'm assuming it has relevance here...

I've tried connecting all the whites and all the blacks to no avail.
This light switch worked at one time - what am I doing wrong?
Thanks,

MP.

What you found in your fixture box when you removed the old light was a fixture
white and a fixture black spliced on to only 2 of the wires in the wall box.

Inside that wall box there was another splice which had nothing to do with your
fixture wires, and for some reason you felt the need to un-do that splice as
well.

You are part of the 20% of DIYers and about 10% of so called professionals who
suffer from clueless overconfidence and have no business working on whatever it
is you're working on.

"markp" wrote in message
ups.com...

OK. This all started when I went to replace a lighting fixture in the
bathroom. It worked fine but it was ugly, so I bought a new fixture,
hit the breaker, and pulled the old one off the wall. Because I'd done
really basic upgrades before, I didn't pay much attention to how the
old one was wired, but once I got it off the wall, I realized that I
had TWO cables (each containing a white, black and raw wire) coming in
to either side of the junction box. That means TWO white wires, TWO
black ones, TWO raw (uncoated, whatever) ones.

Too late for you now... It's luck you haven't had a fire yet the way you're
blindly hooking up wires.

If you didn't take note of what wires went where when you pulled the old
fixture out, and you don't understand how a light switch works, hire a
professional.

"markp" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks Reed - that works perfectly.

Great... now you have a firetrap waitign to happen... Do you even have a
clue as to what you did?

Just because it works doesn't mean that it's right or even safe.

You can heat a house with exhaust from your car, but is it safe to do so?

The most probable reason that there are two sets of wires is because one
set is the hot (power source) and the other set goes to the switch. The
black hot wire is connected to the black wire going to (or coming from) the
switch. The white switch wire is connected to one side of the
fixture---treat and color this wire "black" as it is a hot wire. The white
(power source) wire is connected to the other side of the switch. You have
to determine which of the two sets of wires is the power source. The bare
wires are ground wires and should be connected together and connected to a
ground. Having said all that--get help because trial and error is not an
acceptable approach to this job
MLD
"markp" wrote in message
ups.com...

OK. This all started when I went to replace a lighting fixture in the
bathroom. It worked fine but it was ugly, so I bought a new fixture,
hit the breaker, and pulled the old one off the wall. Because I'd done
really basic upgrades before, I didn't pay much attention to how the
old one was wired, but once I got it off the wall, I realized that I
had TWO cables (each containing a white, black and raw wire) coming in
to either side of the junction box. That means TWO white wires, TWO
black ones, TWO raw (uncoated, whatever) ones.

Needless to say, after trying loads of different combinations, I have
no idea how to get either the old light or the new light to work again.
If I connect fixture white - white (left side) and fixture black -
(left side), I can get the light to come back on, however the light
switch won't turn it off. It should be noted that fixture white -
white (right side) and fixture black - black (right side) does
absolutely nothing. And yet the right side is closer to the light
switch, so I'm assuming it has relevance here...

I've tried connecting all the whites and all the blacks to no avail.
This light switch worked at one time - what am I doing wrong?
Thanks,

MP.

On 21 Dec 2004 04:30:19 GMT "Bob K 207"
used 3 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.home.repair

Working on your own electrical appliances without a clue

that's mean


No, it's not. More people have been killed by 110/ 60 Hz than any other form of
electricity. What if he makes a mistake and gets electrocuted? What if he
makes a mistake and burns down the house with the family in it? Folks without
training should NEVER work on high voltage wiring unsupervised. That is why
you'll never see me give out advice regarding high-voltage wiring issues.
Sometimes the best advice is "call a pro".


--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

On 20 Dec 2004 19:09:43 -0800 "markp"
used 2 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.home.repair

Thanks for the help, Graham!


No offense man... Read my reply to the guy who said I was "mean".



--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

This post, and also the one from Greg, both look accurate to me. If you
are going to take this challenge, then I would first buy some books on home
wiring and read all about it before jumping in. If it is too much effort to
spend the time to read about it first, then I would take the safe way and
get an electrician. For example, if the receptacle has a gold and a silver
screw, you need to be sure you are connecting the right wire to the right
screw, otherwise you could be setting someone up for electrocution or a fire
years later. This opens you up to liability years after a mitake that was
part of your learning curve. You should find this exact wiring setup in any
beginner book, as this sounds like the most common wiring scheme used for a
switched light with power entering the fixture box first. You may recall
that when you unscrewed the wires there was a piece of tape, or maybe a
black mark with a pen, on one of the white wires, seemingly doing nothing.
What that piece of tape says is that this white wire is hot and not neutral,
and that it is within a switched circuit. What you did wrong was you
bypassed the switch, basically running it in parallel with the light so the
switch did nothing. You need it in series with the light, so that it
controls the fixture. Draw out your circuit, use a voltage tester and
ohmmeter to be sure you understand the circuit, and be very very careful.

Dave

"MLD" wrote in message news:NvXxd.2501$sh5.159@trndny08...
The most probable reason that there are two sets of wires is because one
set is the hot (power source) and the other set goes to the switch. The
black hot wire is connected to the black wire going to (or coming from)
the
switch. The white switch wire is connected to one side of the
fixture---treat and color this wire "black" as it is a hot wire. The white
(power source) wire is connected to the other side of the switch. You
have
to determine which of the two sets of wires is the power source. The bare
wires are ground wires and should be connected together and connected to a
ground. Having said all that--get help because trial and error is not an
acceptable approach to this job
MLD
"markp" wrote in message
ups.com...

OK. This all started when I went to replace a lighting fixture in the
bathroom. It worked fine but it was ugly, so I bought a new fixture,
hit the breaker, and pulled the old one off the wall. Because I'd done
really basic upgrades before, I didn't pay much attention to how the
old one was wired, but once I got it off the wall, I realized that I
had TWO cables (each containing a white, black and raw wire) coming in
to either side of the junction box. That means TWO white wires, TWO
black ones, TWO raw (uncoated, whatever) ones.

Needless to say, after trying loads of different combinations, I have
no idea how to get either the old light or the new light to work again.
If I connect fixture white - white (left side) and fixture black -
(left side), I can get the light to come back on, however the light
switch won't turn it off. It should be noted that fixture white -
white (right side) and fixture black - black (right side) does
absolutely nothing. And yet the right side is closer to the light
switch, so I'm assuming it has relevance here...

I've tried connecting all the whites and all the blacks to no avail.
This light switch worked at one time - what am I doing wrong?
Thanks,

MP.

unkbloc (HaHaHa) writes:
You are part of the 20% of DIYers and about 10% of so called professionals who
suffer from clueless overconfidence and have no business working on whatever it
is you're working on.


I would have thought that both percentages would be significantly
higher -- though sometimes nowadays given the lack of traditional
training and apprenticeship,I don't know which group suffers more from
the cruel disease of "clueless overconfidence"

Graham,
I've got to agree with you. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but I won't mess with
electrical things, unless it's just a simple direct replacement of a switch or light
fixture. Electricity is invisible, so you just simply have to know the rules and
ins and outs of how it works. It's not like other things where you can see what's
going on and react to it, causing a fix to come about.

I don't have a really good grounding in the laws of AC Electrical, so I stay away
from it. I suppose that it's not completely rocket science, so if I set out to study
the laws of Electricity and home wiring, I'd be fine, but until then, I stay away
from it.

Some times you just have to know when to keep out of certain things.

Danny

"G. Morgan" wrote:

On 21 Dec 2004 04:30:19 GMT "Bob K 207"
used 3 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.home.repair

Working on your own electrical appliances without a clue

that's mean

No, it's not. More people have been killed by 110/ 60 Hz than any other form of
electricity. What if he makes a mistake and gets electrocuted? What if he
makes a mistake and burns down the house with the family in it? Folks without
training should NEVER work on high voltage wiring unsupervised. That is why
you'll never see me give out advice regarding high-voltage wiring issues.
Sometimes the best advice is "call a pro".


--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Graham,
I've got to agree with you. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but I won't mess with
electrical things, unless it's just a simple direct replacement of a switch or light
fixture. Electricity is invisible, so you just simply have to know the rules and
ins and outs of how it works. It's not like other things where you can see what's
going on and react to it, causing a fix to come about.

I don't have a really good grounding in the laws of AC Electrical, so I stay away
from it. I suppose that it's not completely rocket science, so if I set out to study
the laws of Electricity and home wiring, I'd be fine, but until then, I stay away
from it.

Some times you just have to know when to keep out of certain things.

Danny

Danny
I only wish everyone could come to the same conclusion. Unlike some
electricians I have no problem with a home owner doing their own work.
I am even happy to advise them if they show a glimmer of caution and
some evidence of understanding the basics. No one is born knowing
electricity. My allergic reactions are triggered by those who say
there is nothing to it it is just color to color. The folks who want
some techniques banned because it takes time to understand them and work
with them safely are also a major irritant.

I've done a lot of work with customers who want to do some of the work
themselves and use me as a paid coach and instructor. As long as they
will make corrections as needed and take the time to learn enough theory
and code to do it right they are a joy to work with. The few who want
to throw it together as long as the lights light I drop like a hot rock.
--
Tom H