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Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
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#1
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Does Federal Pacific stab and lock make tandem breakers?
I have a Federal Noark panel. I would like to add 2 circuits, but only
have one slot. I need to add a dedicated circuit for a dishwasher and would like to put in a GFI circuit breaker for the kitchen and bathroom. I have been unable to find a Federal Pacific stab and lock tandem breakers. I have also read Federal Pacific panels are a fire risk. Is this true and should I switch panels? |
#2
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"Aaron" wrote in message ups.com... I have a Federal Noark panel. I would like to add 2 circuits, but only have one slot. I need to add a dedicated circuit for a dishwasher and would like to put in a GFI circuit breaker for the kitchen and bathroom. I have been unable to find a Federal Pacific stab and lock tandem breakers. I have also read Federal Pacific panels are a fire risk. Is this true and should I switch panels? Federal lost its UL listing years ago. Yes it was for fires. I remember doing trouble calls in West Phoenix, when the full summer sun hit the panels, the breakers would trip. I can not tell you if you should change the service. That is going to cost some big bucks. This link will has 20-20 and 15-15 breakers listed. http://www.electricsupplyonline.com/...e-breakers.php Bring your banker for creative financing. Forget the GFCI breaker idea, MUCH more expensive. Go to your electric supply/box store and get GFCI outlets and install them. The kitchen and bathrooms should not be on the same circuit. Kitchens need 2 free circuits per code (at least) not counting installed equipment. Bathrooms as far as I am concerned should be on their own circuit. My SO has enough electrical stuff to make a small load bank. Thank god she can old plug in two items at a time. I did find a outlet expander in the bathroom once, after destroying it. I pleaded with her that I was not interested in dealing with a fire nor her death. I do not think that she really bought it but I have not found any more outlet expanders in the bathroom. |
#3
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Aaron wrote:
I have a Federal Noark panel. I would like to add 2 circuits, but only have one slot. I need to add a dedicated circuit for a dishwasher and would like to put in a GFI circuit breaker for the kitchen and bathroom. I have been unable to find a Federal Pacific stab and lock tandem breakers. I have also read Federal Pacific panels are a fire risk. Is this true and should I switch panels? As SQLit said, put GFCI recepts in and forget about a GFCI breaker. Are FPE Panels risky? You betchum! And this story goes way back to the 60's. For a really detailed history: http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm Then you be the judge... Jim |
#4
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You can get new circuit breakers made by the American Circuit Breaker Co.
which fit the FPE panel and are U.L. approved. To my knowledge they don't make any half sized GFCI breakers, which like the others said, I wouldn't use anyway. You are better off with receptacles. Over all, if it were my house, I'd scrap the whole panel "Aaron" wrote in message ups.com... I have a Federal Noark panel. I would like to add 2 circuits, but only have one slot. I need to add a dedicated circuit for a dishwasher and would like to put in a GFI circuit breaker for the kitchen and bathroom. I have been unable to find a Federal Pacific stab and lock tandem breakers. I have also read Federal Pacific panels are a fire risk. Is this true and should I switch panels? |
#5
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Thanks for the advice. I think I will look into switching out the
panel. I worked as an electrical apprectice before graduating college. It has been about 10 years and I don't feel comfortable disconnecting a live panel. How do you get a panel turned off that does not have a main switch? Will the city kill your power for a day? Also when I was working I remember Square D panels being easier to work on then other brands, so I am thinking getting Square D. Any opinions? |
#6
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"Aaron" wrote in message oups.com... Thanks for the advice. I think I will look into switching out the panel. I worked as an electrical apprectice before graduating college. It has been about 10 years and I don't feel comfortable disconnecting a live panel. How do you get a panel turned off that does not have a main switch? Will the city kill your power for a day? Also when I was working I remember Square D panels being easier to work on then other brands, so I am thinking getting Square D. Any opinions? When I was doing residential change outs that were fed from over head I would just cut the wires, hot, hot and then the messenger. I taped off the hots and made sure that they were different lengths. I would tie off the drop with an rope until I could get the new mast in place. Then using split bolts I would re connect the drop to the new riser. Not exactly for the fait of heart or to be done in a rain storm. Shingled roofs are not conductive. You need to get a permit from the local folks. I was doing so many that I was pulling 10 permits a week. Do not know about your neck of the woods. But here if you ask for the power to be shut off, there is no doubt that it will be off for at least 24 hours. The utility will not restore power until the AHJ has signed off. Some times 48 hours for the clearance to get thought both parties. My customer were not interested in that kind of service. If your not comfortable with working live wires then get someone to do the job. Panel up grades can have lots of "gotcha's" if your not aware of the regs. Biggest one I see around here is the 2 ground rods that are needed, unless you have an ufer. Your home your choice of panels. I would look about and see what I could get the best deal on. Here in Phoenix the best place to buy residential change outs used to be Evergreen hardware. They actually had a kit all set up for a common installations. |
#7
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Killing power is different in all locations. Some places you can simply pull
the meter, others you have to cut the overhead wires. Sounds like it might be a good idea to get some help. Square D is a nice choice for panels. They have QO type which is very good and homeline which is OK "Aaron" wrote in message ups.com... I have a Federal Noark panel. I would like to add 2 circuits, but only have one slot. I need to add a dedicated circuit for a dishwasher and would like to put in a GFI circuit breaker for the kitchen and bathroom. I have been unable to find a Federal Pacific stab and lock tandem breakers. I have also read Federal Pacific panels are a fire risk. Is this true and should I switch panels? |
#8
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#9
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#10
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The only problem with Federal Pacific breakers is with the two ploe
breakers. I have a FPE panel installed in 1962 and all the original single pole breakers work just fine (I load tested all of them). I bought a ground fault breaker off eBay that was fairly new and from Canada but I don't recommend them because they take up too much space in your breaker panel. I had no trouble buying used FPE breakers off eBay, but I got newer used ones with the white numbering, not the old ones with the red numbers on them). Now if your Federal Pacific panel has two pole breakers on it then loan test them by overloading one phase of it and see if it trips both legs properly. If it does than it's OK. The problem is that on a single phase overload on a 2 pole breaker it wasn't tripping the other pole. |
#11
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wrote in message oups.com... The only problem with Federal Pacific breakers is with the two ploe breakers. I have a FPE panel installed in 1962 and all the original single pole breakers work just fine (I load tested all of them). I would be interested in how you really do load test your breakers. I have tested circuit breakers for a lot of years. We call it primary and secondary injection. Secondary injection is through the ct's. Your using the original breaker curve published by FPE? Our current supplies start out at about $15k for an MS-2 and crank well over $40k for a Doble unit. How do you test for LD and Instantous? snipped |
#12
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wrote:
The only problem with Federal Pacific breakers is with the two ploe breakers. SNIP WRONG! Read all of the report: http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm One of the bigger problems with this design is the type of stab into the bus. It often results in high-resistance contact and resulting overheating. In minor cases, that can mean inconvenience when lights on one circuit flicker. In severe cases, it can end up with a melt-down of the panel. You have not truly lived until you've attempted to pry out an FPE breaker and had it crumble into dust in your hand.... I used to think that testing of the breakers to ensure that they tripped was adequate assurance of an FPE panel suitability. No more. Jim |
#13
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SQLit posted for all of us....
wrote in message oups.com... The only problem with Federal Pacific breakers is with the two ploe breakers. I have a FPE panel installed in 1962 and all the original single pole breakers work just fine (I load tested all of them). I would be interested in how you really do load test your breakers. I have tested circuit breakers for a lot of years. We call it primary and secondary injection. Secondary injection is through the ct's. Your using the original breaker curve published by FPE? Our current supplies start out at about $15k for an MS-2 and crank well over $40k for a Doble unit. How do you test for LD and Instantous? snipped We know he "load tests" them. Shorts hot to ground. Post info on the other stuff you posted, just curious... -- Tekkie |
#14
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Previously in alt.home.repair, Speedy Jim proclaimed
: wrote: The only problem with Federal Pacific breakers is with the two ploe breakers. SNIP WRONG! Read all of the report: http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm One of the bigger problems with this design is the type of stab into the bus. It often results in high-resistance contact and resulting overheating. In minor cases, that can mean inconvenience when lights on one circuit flicker. In severe cases, it can end up with a melt-down of the panel. You have not truly lived until you've attempted to pry out an FPE breaker and had it crumble into dust in your hand.... I used to think that testing of the breakers to ensure that they tripped was adequate assurance of an FPE panel suitability. No more. Jim ...all I know is that our FPE breaker panel is *expensive* to replace breakers and the lighting store strongly recommended that we replace the entire panel as soon as possible. It's the original panel that came with the house when it was built in the early 70's. We haven't experienced any problems with the panel but it's on our "to do" list for this spring. |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Does Federal Pacific stab and lock make tandem breakers?
replying to SQLit, Randy Hosea III wrote:
Pull the meter its much easier -- for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...rs-576823-.htm |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Does Federal Pacific stab and lock make tandem breakers?
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:58:15 PM UTC-5, Randy Hosea III wrote:
replying to SQLit, Randy Hosea III wrote: Pull the meter its much easier -- Unfortunately, 11 years ago, Mr. SQLit was killed during a service call when he disturbed a hive of Aficanized Honey Bees. He died of blood loss due to all the bullet wounds from the tiny Glocks the bees shot him with. He is survived by a remarried wife, 3 Gay children and 56 gerbils. The gerbils really miss him. 8-( [8~{} Uncle Pistol Monster |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Does Federal Pacific stab and lock make tandem breakers?
Uncle Monster posted for all of us...
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:58:15 PM UTC-5, Randy Hosea III wrote: replying to SQLit, Randy Hosea III wrote: Pull the meter its much easier -- Unfortunately, 11 years ago, Mr. SQLit was killed during a service call when he disturbed a hive of Aficanized Honey Bees. He died of blood loss due to all the bullet wounds from the tiny Glocks the bees shot him with. He is survived by a remarried wife, 3 Gay children and 56 gerbils. The gerbils really miss him. 8-( [8~{} Uncle Pistol Monster This site has a lot of gerbil activity. Has this ever been discussed? I think fire ants would have taken over. -- Tekkie |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Does Federal Pacific stab and lock make tandem breakers?
On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 3:04:46 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
Uncle Monster posted for all of us... On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:58:15 PM UTC-5, Randy Hosea III wrote: replying to SQLit, Randy Hosea III wrote: Pull the meter its much easier -- Unfortunately, 11 years ago, Mr. SQLit was killed during a service call when he disturbed a hive of Aficanized Honey Bees. He died of blood loss due to all the bullet wounds from the tiny Glocks the bees shot him with. He is survived by a remarried wife, 3 Gay children and 56 gerbils. The gerbils really miss him. 8-( [8~{} Uncle Pistol Monster This site has a lot of gerbil activity. Has this ever been discussed? I think fire ants would have taken over. -- Tekkie I can't keep any pets here at the nursing and rehab center so gerbils are out of the question but I did have a cockroach hang out with me for a little while. The poor little guy met a tragic death when he tried to befriend one of the nurses. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Roach Monster |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Does Federal Pacific stab and lock make tandem breakers?
Uncle Monster posted for all of us...
On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 3:04:46 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote: Uncle Monster posted for all of us... On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:58:15 PM UTC-5, Randy Hosea III wrote: replying to SQLit, Randy Hosea III wrote: Pull the meter its much easier -- Unfortunately, 11 years ago, Mr. SQLit was killed during a service call when he disturbed a hive of Aficanized Honey Bees. He died of blood loss due to all the bullet wounds from the tiny Glocks the bees shot him with. He is survived by a remarried wife, 3 Gay children and 56 gerbils. The gerbils really miss him. 8-( [8~{} Uncle Pistol Monster This site has a lot of gerbil activity. Has this ever been discussed? I think fire ants would have taken over. -- Tekkie I can't keep any pets here at the nursing and rehab center so gerbils are out of the question but I did have a cockroach hang out with me for a little while. The poor little guy met a tragic death when he tried to befriend one of the nurses. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Roach Monster The kind you inhale? g -- Tekkie |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Does Federal Pacific stab and lock make tandem breakers?
On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 1:35:55 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
Uncle Monster posted for all of us... On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 3:04:46 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote: Uncle Monster posted for all of us... On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:58:15 PM UTC-5, Randy Hosea III wrote: replying to SQLit, Randy Hosea III wrote: Pull the meter its much easier -- Unfortunately, 11 years ago, Mr. SQLit was killed during a service call when he disturbed a hive of Aficanized Honey Bees. He died of blood loss due to all the bullet wounds from the tiny Glocks the bees shot him with.. He is survived by a remarried wife, 3 Gay children and 56 gerbils. The gerbils really miss him. 8-( [8~{} Uncle Pistol Monster This site has a lot of gerbil activity. Has this ever been discussed? I think fire ants would have taken over. -- Tekkie I can't keep any pets here at the nursing and rehab center so gerbils are out of the question but I did have a cockroach hang out with me for a little while. The poor little guy met a tragic death when he tried to befriend one of the nurses. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Roach Monster The kind you inhale? g -- Tekkie Why on earth would I inhale an insect? They really bug me. o_O [8~{} Uncle Bug-eyed Monster |
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