3 phase energy consumption?
 

I was wondering where to get objective information on energy cost comparison
between
the same device (air conditioner) in 3 phase vs single phase. I will be
getting a new condenser
next season (maybe 3.5 to 5 ton), and 3 phase is available, but I would need
to justify putting in a panel for it.
I already have adequate panel space in single phase.
Natural gas has gone up quite a bit here, and I might consider an all
electric heat pump, as well.
I'd would like to have 3ph anyway for machinery, etc, but it would help the
decision if the a/c would actually run cheaper. Someone was telling me that
electric meters are more weighted towards amperage, than just wattage, but I
have my doubts on that.
Thanks
Bill

"bill a" wrote in message
. com...
I was wondering where to get objective information on energy cost
comparison
between
the same device (air conditioner) in 3 phase vs single phase. I will be
getting a new condenser
next season (maybe 3.5 to 5 ton), and 3 phase is available, but I would
need
to justify putting in a panel for it.
I already have adequate panel space in single phase.
Natural gas has gone up quite a bit here, and I might consider an all
electric heat pump, as well.
I'd would like to have 3ph anyway for machinery, etc, but it would help
the
decision if the a/c would actually run cheaper. Someone was telling me
that
electric meters are more weighted towards amperage, than just wattage, but
I
have my doubts on that.
Thanks
Bill

I know where I live 3 phase for a residence is an act of god or produce load
calculations for something like 100 kw demand. If I were you I would look
into what it will cost for an phase service then look at the cost of an
single phase air conditioner. I seriously doubt that there is any payback.
You must contact your utility to see what the rate differences are. 3 phase
will no doubt have an demand charge maybe more. Unless you have an machine
shop that runs 18 hours a day your probably tilting at windmills.

An 3 phase motor does draw less amps but the kwh is about the same. An horse
power is still an horse power whether it be 3 phase or single phase. Wire
sizes are smaller with 3 phase and all of the protective devices are smaller
in size and usually more in initial cost.

Bill, I don't know where you live, but many utility companies won't give you
a 3 phase service at a single family house and because 3 phase is generally
for commercial and industrial uses, they often charge at a higher rate
"bill a" wrote in message
. com...
I was wondering where to get objective information on energy cost
comparison between
the same device (air conditioner) in 3 phase vs single phase. I will be
getting a new condenser
next season (maybe 3.5 to 5 ton), and 3 phase is available, but I would
need to justify putting in a panel for it.
I already have adequate panel space in single phase.
Natural gas has gone up quite a bit here, and I might consider an all
electric heat pump, as well.
I'd would like to have 3ph anyway for machinery, etc, but it would help
the decision if the a/c would actually run cheaper. Someone was telling
me that electric meters are more weighted towards amperage, than just
wattage, but I have my doubts on that.
Thanks
Bill

"bill a" wrote in message
. com...
I was wondering where to get objective information on energy cost comparison
between
the same device (air conditioner) in 3 phase vs single phase. I will be
getting a new condenser
next season (maybe 3.5 to 5 ton), and 3 phase is available, but I would need
to justify putting in a panel for it.
I already have adequate panel space in single phase.
Natural gas has gone up quite a bit here, and I might consider an all electric
heat pump, as well.
I'd would like to have 3ph anyway for machinery, etc, but it would help the
decision if the a/c would actually run cheaper. Someone was telling me that
electric meters are more weighted towards amperage, than just wattage, but I
have my doubts on that.
Thanks
Bill


This is Turtle.

The ideal you have is full of holes as to try to burn less electric as cost goes
by having a 3 phase hvac system. Most all 3 phase equipment has a SEER rating of
7 to 9 seer and just a few have 9.8 seer rating but really rare. Let's say you
buy the highest seer rating they make 10 seer in a 3 phase hvac system and it
cost you $100.00 a month to run it. If you would buy a 14 seer in single phase
hvac system and the 3 phase will cost you $100.00 a month to run it. The 14 SEER
single phase hvac system will cost you $60.00 a month to run it.

3 phase 10 seer hvac system = $100.00 a month to run it.

Single phase 14 seer hvac system = $60.00 a month to run it.

Now Try this out !

Single phase 16 seer hvac system = $40.00 a month to run it.

Which one sounds better to pay for ''''' $100.00 a month '''''' or ''''' $40.00
a month '''''' to cool your building?

TURTLE

Actually, my service type with the utility company is already 3 phase. It's
been carried
over that way for years since there had been a 3 ph meter in the building
years ago.
I inquired about this and there is no difference in my cost to change the
service type.
bill
"RBM" wrote in message
...
Bill, I don't know where you live, but many utility companies won't give
you a 3 phase service at a single family house and because 3 phase is
generally for commercial and industrial uses, they often charge at a
higher rate
"bill a" wrote in message

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

I wasn't aware that the higher seer units were unavailable in 3 ph. That
would make a
considerable difference in the decision.

Bill

This is Turtle.

The ideal you have is full of holes as to try to burn less electric as
cost goes by having a 3 phase hvac system. Most all 3 phase equipment has
a SEER rating of 7 to 9 seer and just a few have 9.8 seer rating but
really rare. Let's say you buy the highest seer rating they make 10 seer
in a 3 phase hvac system and it cost you $100.00 a month to run it. If you
would buy a 14 seer in single phase hvac system and the 3 phase will cost
you $100.00 a month to run it. The 14 SEER single phase hvac system will
cost you $60.00 a month to run it.

3 phase 10 seer hvac system = $100.00 a month to run it.

Single phase 14 seer hvac system = $60.00 a month to run it.

Now Try this out !

Single phase 16 seer hvac system = $40.00 a month to run it.

Which one sounds better to pay for ''''' $100.00 a month '''''' or '''''
$40.00 a month '''''' to cool your building?

TURTLE

here's an article that seems to imply that 3ph motors are inherently more
efficient
and that 3ph compressors do run more cheaply
http://eisg.sdsu.edu/shortsums/..%5C...ms%5C99-39.htm

bill


"TURTLE" wrote in message
...


This is Turtle.

The ideal you have is full of holes as to try to burn less electric as
cost goes by having a 3 phase hvac system. Most all 3 phase equipment has
a SEER rating of 7 to 9 seer and just a few have 9.8 seer rating but
really rare. Let's say you buy the highest seer rating they make 10 seer
in a 3 phase hvac system and it cost you $100.00 a month to run it. If you
would buy a 14 seer in single phase hvac system and the 3 phase will cost
you $100.00 a month to run it. The 14 SEER single phase hvac system will
cost you $60.00 a month to run it.

3 phase 10 seer hvac system = $100.00 a month to run it.

Single phase 14 seer hvac system = $60.00 a month to run it.

Now Try this out !

Single phase 16 seer hvac system = $40.00 a month to run it.

Which one sounds better to pay for ''''' $100.00 a month '''''' or '''''
$40.00 a month '''''' to cool your building?

TURTLE

"bill a" wrote in message
. com...
here's an article that seems to imply that 3ph motors are inherently more
efficient
and that 3ph compressors do run more cheaply
http://eisg.sdsu.edu/shortsums/..%5C...ms%5C99-39.htm

bill


This is Turtle.

The 3 phase compressor may run very cheaply but the compressor is what that is
rated here and the system as a whole is not rated. Cost to operate is rated in
seer and not in the out put of A compressor but the system as a whole.

The highest seer rating of any 3 phase system know to man today is a 10 seer
rating and single phase systems have rating of 16 seer + .

No matter how you look at it 3 phase is a electric hog made to even run on low
voltage where a single phase will not run on low voltage!

TURTLE