I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone have
any recommendations?

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:15:24 -0500, "Betsy" -0 wrote:

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone have
any recommendations?

Have you talked to management about this? Aren't they aware of the
dangers of second hand smoke? That is the first step - get the
!@#$%^&* smokers outside the building. Even if the boss turns you
down, you need to voice your feelings about breathing other people's
noxious emissions. What are the local laws concerning smoking in the
workplace?

I don't think any personal sized air cleaner is going to do much good
in an office, unless the room is small and has a door you can close.

If I were in your situation I would find another job right away.
Seriously. Like my mother, I am allergic to tobbaco smoke and I feel
physically ill immediately when I smell the stink.

Good luck.

John

John Davies TLCA 14732
http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/
'96 Lexus LX450
'00 Audi A4 1.8T quattro
Spokane WA USA

Sorry to say it, but John is right. There is not a lot you can do on
your own unless you have an office with a door that closes.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"Betsy" -0 wrote in message
...
I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am
considering buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job.
Does anyone have any recommendations?

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone have
any recommendations?

Make a real statement: buy a WWII surplus gas mask and wear it at work when
things get smoggy. Beyond that you might need to research commercial air
clarifiers that are used in nightclubs, bars, etc. Good luck.

Joe

Walmart has some portable HEPA air cleaners which work good. Get the
largest model and the fan noise will be the most quiet.

HEPA air cleaners (the best air filtering you can buy) are also good for
allergies and can filter illness causing particles out of the air. Point
the clean air output toward where you sit.


"Betsy" wrote in message
I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am
considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone
have
any recommendations?

I dought if one will work, you are better off getting together with
other non smokers and protest that smoking be done outdoors

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:28:33 -0800, John Davies
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:15:24 -0500, "Betsy" -0 wrote:

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone have
any recommendations?

Have you talked to management about this? Aren't they aware of the
dangers of second hand smoke? That is the first step - get the
!@#$%^&* smokers outside the building.

Let me say on behalf of outdoor smokers everywhere, Screw You John.
Why don't you go outside the building?

Even if the boss turns you
down, you need to voice your feelings about breathing other people's
noxious emissions. What are the local laws concerning smoking in the
workplace?

When the tobacco war starts, I will be on the other side of the
barricades.

I don't think any personal sized air cleaner is going to do much good
in an office, unless the room is small and has a door you can close.

If I were in your situation I would find another job right away.
Seriously. Like my mother, I am allergic to tobbaco smoke and I feel
physically ill immediately when I smell the stink.

If you don't care about my rights, why should I care about yours?


Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

In article , Betsy -0
wrote:

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone have
any recommendations?

Check with your HR office to see if there is an indoor clean air
act in your state, and how the company plans to comply with it.
This is common in Blue states (those that voted Kerry), but
uncommon in Red states (those that voted Bush). It has nothing
to do with Kerry or Bush, it just happens that is how the law
is implemented, in general.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:03:55 -0600, "John A. Weeks III"
wrote:

In article , Betsy -0
wrote:

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone have
any recommendations?

Check with your HR office to see if there is an indoor clean air
act in your state, and how the company plans to comply with it.
This is common in Blue states (those that voted Kerry), but
uncommon in Red states (those that voted Bush). It has nothing
to do with Kerry or Bush, it just happens that is how the law
is implemented, in general.

The only thing that ****es me off more than being pushed outdoors is
being robbed in the form of tobacco taxes. The TobaccoNazis can all go
straight to hell.

Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

We bought a Honeywell two stage air cleaner at Home Depot. Has a HEPA
filter wrapped with an activated carbon sleeve (replaceable). Does the
job for us in a fairly large family room.

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:15:24 -0500, "Betsy" -0 wrote:

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone have
any recommendations?

In article , Gary R. Lloyd
wrote:

The only thing that ****es me off more than being pushed outdoors is
being robbed in the form of tobacco taxes. The TobaccoNazis can all go
straight to hell.

Normally, I'd support ideas of personal freedom like this, but in
the case of cigarettes, when you use them as intended by the cigarette
makers, it kills you and the people that are unfortunate enough to
breath your second-hand smoke. It isn't a personal freedom thing,
rather, it is a public health issue, and a life or death issue at that.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

You do have rights but your right to smoke inside is harmful to those who do
not smoke.
You've made the choice to poison your body...that is your right. Non smokers
have chosen not to put their bodies thru' that, that is their right.
Much easier for you to smoke outside than it is for a non smoker not to
breath the air inside.

"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:28:33 -0800, John Davies
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:15:24 -0500, "Betsy" -0 wrote:

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am
considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone
have
any recommendations?

Have you talked to management about this? Aren't they aware of the
dangers of second hand smoke? That is the first step - get the
!@#$%^&* smokers outside the building.

Let me say on behalf of outdoor smokers everywhere, Screw You John.
Why don't you go outside the building?

Even if the boss turns you
down, you need to voice your feelings about breathing other people's
noxious emissions. What are the local laws concerning smoking in the
workplace?

When the tobacco war starts, I will be on the other side of the
barricades.

I don't think any personal sized air cleaner is going to do much good
in an office, unless the room is small and has a door you can close.

If I were in your situation I would find another job right away.
Seriously. Like my mother, I am allergic to tobbaco smoke and I feel
physically ill immediately when I smell the stink.

If you don't care about my rights, why should I care about yours?


Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:21:29 -0600, "John A. Weeks III"
wrote:

In article , Gary R. Lloyd
wrote:

The only thing that ****es me off more than being pushed outdoors is
being robbed in the form of tobacco taxes. The TobaccoNazis can all go
straight to hell.

Normally, I'd support ideas of personal freedom like this, but in
the case of cigarettes, when you use them as intended by the cigarette
makers, it kills you and the people that are unfortunate enough to
breath your second-hand smoke. It isn't a personal freedom thing,
rather, it is a public health issue, and a life or death issue at that.


Therefore its okay to push me outdoors regardless of weather, and to
force me to pay outrageous taxes?

I pay more for tobacco taxes than I do for food. A lot of people
assume that this is justified by the extra health care costs
associated with smoking. Wrong.

Setting aside the fact that I have my own health insurance, health
care costs are in fact lower for smokers because they die sooner, thus
avoiding very expensive ongoing old age health care costs. According
to a dutch study, health care costs are 5% lower for smokers. And that
doesn't even take into account the savings in social security
benefits. The government should be paying me to smoke.

As to second hand smoke, find solutions that respect the rights of
both smokers and non-smokers.

For example, if I own the building I get to decide if people can smoke
or not in my building. Anyone who doesn't like it (one way or the
other) can leave. Its my building. No different than the rights I have
as a homeowner, and none of the government's business.

For what its worth, back when the non-smoker rights movement began, I
was very outspoken in support of the non-smokers. It was only fair
that their rights be respected. Then the bottom feeding politicians
got involved and it soon became apparent that they had no such sense
of fair play. If non-smokers don't care about my rights, then why
should I care about their rights?

That kinda makes us enemies, doesn't it? This is typical of the
division on all issues that our country is experiencing. The reds
against the blues, neither respecting the rights of the other.

Our country is long overdue for a revolution, be it in the ballot box
or in the streets, and I can't think of a more just cause than tobacco
taxes.

Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary R. Lloyd
wrote:

The only thing that ****es me off more than being pushed outdoors is
being robbed in the form of tobacco taxes. The TobaccoNazis can all go
straight to hell.

Normally, I'd support ideas of personal freedom like this, but in
the case of cigarettes, when you use them as intended by the cigarette
makers, it kills you and the people that are unfortunate enough to
breath your second-hand smoke. It isn't a personal freedom thing,
rather, it is a public health issue, and a life or death issue at that.

-john-

It also means those smokers are costing me more in health insurance to
support their illnesses. It is only fair they pay some of that back in the
form of tobacco taxes.


--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:03:55 -0600, "John A. Weeks III"
wrote:

In article , Betsy -0
wrote:

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am
considering
buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that job. Does anyone
have any recommendations?

Check with your HR office to see if there is an indoor clean air
act in your state, and how the company plans to comply with it.
This is common in Blue states (those that voted Kerry), but
uncommon in Red states (those that voted Bush). It has nothing
to do with Kerry or Bush, it just happens that is how the law
is implemented, in general.

The only thing that ****es me off more than being pushed outdoors is
being robbed in the form of tobacco taxes. The TobaccoNazis can all go
straight to hell.

Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

As a smoker, I agree, being forced outside in January (I live in WI) is
annoying.

The best solution I have ever seen, and I have come across several places
that do this, is to set up a smoking room in the building somewhere. That
room has a sealed door to prevent the "smoke and smell" from leaving the
room for the most part, and then overhead power vents sucking the smoke out
of the room and venting it outside.

In my view that is the best compromise I have found. It gives the smokers
somewhere to go, that is still temp controlled and comfortable, yet doesn't
subject the non-smokers to the stuff they hate. I realize that this is not
feasible for all companies to do but I really think it is a nice happy
medium and should be implemented more often.

Just my two cents worth.
Dave

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:

Setting aside the fact that I have my own health insurance, health
care costs are in fact lower for smokers because they die sooner, thus
avoiding very expensive ongoing old age health care costs. According
to a dutch study, health care costs are 5% lower for smokers. And that
doesn't even take into account the savings in social security
benefits. The government should be paying me to smoke.


I'm all for you smoking several cartons of cigarettes a day. All I ask is that
when you have difficulty breathing, you won't come to the hospital to complain
about how you can't breathe. I can't fix it, and I don't enjoy listening to the
COPDers whining about shortness of breath.

Go smoke another cigarette.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Dave Hammond wrote:
As a smoker, I agree, being forced outside in January (I live in WI) is
annoying.


Well, I find it annoying that my coworkers force me to go into the bathroom when
all I need to do is fart. It can't possibly smell worse than your cigarette.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Gary , That Dutch study was done by drugged up Dutchies with their
liberal drug laws, you are stupid enough to believe it. I go out side
to smoke , I smoke, it stinks. Why should you be allowed to harm or
bother anyone. Do you drink and drive to.

In article , Dave
Hammond wrote:

The best solution I have ever seen, and I have come across several places
that do this, is to set up a smoking room in the building somewhere. That
room has a sealed door to prevent the "smoke and smell" from leaving the
room for the most part, and then overhead power vents sucking the smoke out
of the room and venting it outside.

At one of the last places that I worked, they built such a smoking
room out in the parking ramp. The smokers were so filthy that the
president of the company shut it down. The janitors wouldn't go
in there because of the danger from the smoke, and the smokers
wouldn't bother to take out their trash and they always put their
butts on the ground.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote


Well, I find it annoying that my coworkers force me to go into the
bathroom when
all I need to do is fart. It can't possibly smell worse than your
cigarette.

If your coworkers actually force you to go into a bathroom, maybe it's to
check to see if you **** yourself.

Think cork!

John Davies wrote:
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:15:24 -0500, "Betsy" -0 wrote:

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am
considering buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that
job. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Have you talked to management about this? Aren't they aware of the
dangers of second hand smoke? That is the first step - get the
!@#$%^&* smokers outside the building. Even if the boss turns you
down, you need to voice your feelings about breathing other people's
noxious emissions. What are the local laws concerning smoking in the
workplace?

1. There are NO studies alleging ANY connection between second-hand smoke
and ANY deleterious health consequences. ALL such claims to the contrary are
PC bull****. Just like the hysteria over asbestos.

2. If one doesn't like the working environment, quit. Get a job more
hospitable to your finely-honed sensitivities. Florist or slip-cover
designer come to mind.

3. Voice your feelings or snitch me out if you want. Your ass is fired,
arson, embezzelment, something, one way or another. Further, I'll make it my
mission to see you spend the rest of your otherwise productive life putting
band-aids on syphilitic sailors in Guantanamo.


I don't think any personal sized air cleaner is going to do much good
in an office, unless the room is small and has a door you can close.

If I were in your situation I would find another job right away.

Agreed. Good advice.

Seriously. Like my mother, I am allergic to tobbaco smoke and I feel
physically ill immediately when I smell the stink.

Give it two, three minutes; the smell disappears. If you do break out in
hives, anaphylactic shock, or some other physical, life-threatening symptom,
I believe you can get shots.

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:11:26 -0600, "JerryMouse"
wrote:

John Davies wrote:
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:15:24 -0500, "Betsy" -0 wrote:

I work in an environment where there is second-hand smoke. I am
considering buying a portable air-cleaner to take with me to that
job. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Have you talked to management about this? Aren't they aware of the
dangers of second hand smoke? That is the first step - get the
!@#$%^&* smokers outside the building. Even if the boss turns you
down, you need to voice your feelings about breathing other people's
noxious emissions. What are the local laws concerning smoking in the
workplace?

1. There are NO studies alleging ANY connection between second-hand smoke
and ANY deleterious health consequences. ALL such claims to the contrary are
PC bull****. Just like the hysteria over asbestos.

2. If one doesn't like the working environment, quit. Get a job more
hospitable to your finely-honed sensitivities. Florist or slip-cover
designer come to mind.

3. Voice your feelings or snitch me out if you want. Your ass is fired,
arson, embezzelment, something, one way or another. Further, I'll make it my
mission to see you spend the rest of your otherwise productive life putting
band-aids on syphilitic sailors in Guantanamo.


I don't think any personal sized air cleaner is going to do much good
in an office, unless the room is small and has a door you can close.

If I were in your situation I would find another job right away.

Agreed. Good advice.

Seriously. Like my mother, I am allergic to tobbaco smoke and I feel
physically ill immediately when I smell the stink.

Give it two, three minutes; the smell disappears. If you do break out in
hives, anaphylactic shock, or some other physical, life-threatening symptom,
I believe you can get shots.


Geeeez... Take a pill.

Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:56:44 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:

Setting aside the fact that I have my own health insurance, health
care costs are in fact lower for smokers because they die sooner, thus
avoiding very expensive ongoing old age health care costs. According
to a dutch study, health care costs are 5% lower for smokers. And that
doesn't even take into account the savings in social security
benefits. The government should be paying me to smoke.


I'm all for you smoking several cartons of cigarettes a day. All I ask is that
when you have difficulty breathing, you won't come to the hospital to complain
about how you can't breathe. I can't fix it, and I don't enjoy listening to the
COPDers whining about shortness of breath.

Go smoke another cigarette.


Does the hospital know you judge patients according to their
illnesses? If they did you would probably find yourself in the
unemployment line.

You are a disgrace to your profession.

Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:23:32 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:



--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary R. Lloyd
wrote:

The only thing that ****es me off more than being pushed outdoors is
being robbed in the form of tobacco taxes. The TobaccoNazis can all go
straight to hell.

Normally, I'd support ideas of personal freedom like this, but in
the case of cigarettes, when you use them as intended by the cigarette
makers, it kills you and the people that are unfortunate enough to
breath your second-hand smoke. It isn't a personal freedom thing,
rather, it is a public health issue, and a life or death issue at that.

-john-

It also means those smokers are costing me more in health insurance to
support their illnesses. It is only fair they pay some of that back in the
form of tobacco taxes.


Wrong. It is theft and nothing else.

Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:14:48 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Gary , That Dutch study was done by drugged up Dutchies with their
liberal drug laws, you are stupid enough to believe it. I go out side
to smoke , I smoke, it stinks. Why should you be allowed to harm or
bother anyone. Do you drink and drive to.


That study was done by the dutch government, in a effort to find out
if they could save money on their cradle to grave health care system
by prohibiting smoking.

Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:17:29 -0600, "John A. Weeks III"
wrote:

In article , Dave
Hammond wrote:

The best solution I have ever seen, and I have come across several places
that do this, is to set up a smoking room in the building somewhere. That
room has a sealed door to prevent the "smoke and smell" from leaving the
room for the most part, and then overhead power vents sucking the smoke out
of the room and venting it outside.

At one of the last places that I worked, they built such a smoking
room out in the parking ramp. The smokers were so filthy that the
president of the company shut it down. The janitors wouldn't go
in there because of the danger from the smoke, and the smokers
wouldn't bother to take out their trash and they always put their
butts on the ground.


They need to hire a janitor who smokes. Duhhhhh...

Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

Does anyone see a trend throughout this thread? The vast majority of
non-smokers don't give a damn about anyone's rights but their own, and
they blindly defend outrageous taxes that are clearly nothing short of
theft. Not unlike the politicians they elect, they are thieves and
dictators.

BTW, if any of you smokers out there voted for people who raise your
cigarette taxes, all I can say to you is DUHHHHHHH...

Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

"John Davies" wrote

Have you talked to management about this? Aren't they aware of the
dangers of second hand smoke? That is the first step - get the
!@#$%^&* smokers outside the building. Even if the boss turns you
down, you need to voice your feelings about breathing other people's
noxious emissions. What are the local laws concerning smoking in the
workplace?
Seriously. Like my mother, I am allergic to tobbaco smoke and I feel
physically ill immediately when I smell the stink.

Pussy

Gary you are one inbread uneducated low IQ moron if you believe the
Dutch study

"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:23:32 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:



--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary R. Lloyd
wrote:

The only thing that ****es me off more than being pushed outdoors is
being robbed in the form of tobacco taxes. The TobaccoNazis can all go
straight to hell.

Normally, I'd support ideas of personal freedom like this, but in
the case of cigarettes, when you use them as intended by the cigarette
makers, it kills you and the people that are unfortunate enough to
breath your second-hand smoke. It isn't a personal freedom thing,
rather, it is a public health issue, and a life or death issue at that.

-john-

It also means those smokers are costing me more in health insurance to
support their illnesses. It is only fair they pay some of that back in
the
form of tobacco taxes.


Wrong. It is theft and nothing else.



So how do you plan to protect me from the cost of your addiction when
you become ill, or any of the other cost associate with YOUR smoking that
without tax you not be repaying to society yet society will pay for you.

If you have the right to make choices to inflect part of the cost of
your choices, then I should have the right to tax you back to reclaim that
cost.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:

Does anyone see a trend throughout this thread? The vast majority of
non-smokers don't give a damn about anyone's rights but their own, and
they blindly defend outrageous taxes that are clearly nothing short of
theft. Not unlike the politicians they elect, they are thieves and
dictators.

Since when is smoking a RIGHT?
--

-Bill

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:
Does the hospital know you judge patients according to their
illnesses? If they did you would probably find yourself in the
unemployment line.

You are a disgrace to your profession.



So? What's your point?




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:
Does anyone see a trend throughout this thread? The vast majority of
non-smokers don't give a damn about anyone's rights but their own, and



And how exactly are you any different?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:17:05 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:23:32 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:



--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary R. Lloyd
wrote:

The only thing that ****es me off more than being pushed outdoors is
being robbed in the form of tobacco taxes. The TobaccoNazis can all go
straight to hell.

Normally, I'd support ideas of personal freedom like this, but in
the case of cigarettes, when you use them as intended by the cigarette
makers, it kills you and the people that are unfortunate enough to
breath your second-hand smoke. It isn't a personal freedom thing,
rather, it is a public health issue, and a life or death issue at that.

-john-

It also means those smokers are costing me more in health insurance to
support their illnesses. It is only fair they pay some of that back in
the
form of tobacco taxes.


Wrong. It is theft and nothing else.



So how do you plan to protect me from the cost of your addiction when
you become ill, or any of the other cost associate with YOUR smoking that
without tax you not be repaying to society yet society will pay for you.

If you have the right to make choices to inflect part of the cost of
your choices, then I should have the right to tax you back to reclaim that
cost.

Do I need to keep repeating ad nauseum that health care costs are
lower for smokers than for non-smokers, due to the obvious fact that
they die sooner? Not to mention the savings in social security.
Tobacco taxes cannot be justified. They are just simply theft.


Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:17:05 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:23:32 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:



--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary R. Lloyd
wrote:

The only thing that ****es me off more than being pushed outdoors is
being robbed in the form of tobacco taxes. The TobaccoNazis can all
go
straight to hell.

Normally, I'd support ideas of personal freedom like this, but in
the case of cigarettes, when you use them as intended by the cigarette
makers, it kills you and the people that are unfortunate enough to
breath your second-hand smoke. It isn't a personal freedom thing,
rather, it is a public health issue, and a life or death issue at
that.

-john-

It also means those smokers are costing me more in health insurance
to
support their illnesses. It is only fair they pay some of that back in
the
form of tobacco taxes.


Wrong. It is theft and nothing else.



So how do you plan to protect me from the cost of your addiction when
you become ill, or any of the other cost associate with YOUR smoking that
without tax you not be repaying to society yet society will pay for you.

If you have the right to make choices to inflect part of the cost of
your choices, then I should have the right to tax you back to reclaim
that
cost.

Do I need to keep repeating ad nauseum that health care costs are
lower for smokers than for non-smokers, due to the obvious fact that
they die sooner? Not to mention the savings in social security.
Tobacco taxes cannot be justified. They are just simply theft.

Dying sooner makes it more expensive since you have lived shorter you
have contributed to the system as a healthy person for fewer years and take
more out because on average the smoker is less healthy.




Gary R. Lloyd

"When the boot of government is on your neck,
it doesn't matter if it's left or right"

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"JerryMouse" wrote in message
...

1. There are NO studies alleging ANY connection between
second-hand smoke
and ANY deleterious health consequences. ALL such claims to the
contrary are
PC bull****. Just like the hysteria over asbestos.

Can you say "denial"?


2. If one doesn't like the working environment, quit. Get a job
more
hospitable to your finely-honed sensitivities. Florist or
slip-cover
designer come to mind.

3. Voice your feelings or snitch me out if you want. Your ass
is fired,
arson, embezzelment, something, one way or another. Further,
I'll make it my
mission to see you spend the rest of your otherwise productive
life putting
band-aids on syphilitic sailors in Guantanamo.

Just another one of those "considerate smokers" that we are told
eliminate the need for laws regulating smoking.


Bob

"Red Neckerson" wrote in
message news:ZKknd.6941$h15.5571@trnddc07...

"John Davies" wrote

Have you talked to management about this? Aren't they aware
of the
dangers of second hand smoke? That is the first step - get
the
!@#$%^&* smokers outside the building. Even if the boss turns
you
down, you need to voice your feelings about breathing other
people's
noxious emissions. What are the local laws concerning smoking
in the
workplace?
Seriously. Like my mother, I am allergic to tobbaco smoke and
I feel
physically ill immediately when I smell the stink.

Pussy

Jerk.

"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
Do I need to keep repeating ad nauseum that health care costs
are
lower for smokers than for non-smokers, due to the obvious fact
that
they die sooner? Not to mention the savings in social security.
Tobacco taxes cannot be justified. They are just simply theft.

It is kind of silly to keep repeating it, since it is wrong. You
poor oppressed smokers are really funny.

Bob

Bob wrote:
"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
Do I need to keep repeating ad nauseum that health care costs are
lower for smokers than for non-smokers, due to the obvious fact that
they die sooner? Not to mention the savings in social security.
Tobacco taxes cannot be justified. They are just simply theft.

It is kind of silly to keep repeating it, since it is wrong. You
poor oppressed smokers are really funny.


He's got an interesting theory; pity his head is buried in his ass. True,
smokers leave this life quicker than others. Unfortunately, they run up a hell
of a bill in the passing. Admission after admission to the hospital.... they
don't just go quietly into the night. We call them "frequent fliers" at work.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Let me get this straight, your smoke eventually finding the way into
my nostrils is your right?

Can I stop by your desk and Fart?

Can I bring in a super soaker and squirt you. Shouldnt it be my right
to point that thing and pull the trigger? Why would water, a harmless
substance for the most part be any less protected then cigarette
smoke? In your twisted world it should not be.

I should also be able to play my rap music as loud as I want, if you
hear it at your desk, that is tough luck, it isn't harming you, it is
a minor annoyance, no less annoying than the smell of smoke.

Also since you are zeroing in on rights... isn't the right to have air
that is not polluted by someone else pricipal above any other rights?
I can think of nothing that gives you the right to pollute my air
with foul smell.

So should a factory have the right to put out any noxious gasses that
it wishes, it aint a whole lot different than what you are doing.

All that is accepting your fairy-tale theory that second hand smoke
doesn't actually harm folk, which it does.

Look brother, I am there for you in the personal rights area, but the
fact of the matter, no matter what amount of sophistry you can conjure
up, is that nothing in any rational mind gives someone the right to
pollute my air before I breath it. Not smokers, not factories
belching out pollution, not the guy on the desk next to me farting..
it should be just common sense.

As for taxes, I don't disagree, If I am supporting the cig tax I need
to as well support a tax on my twinkies, which make me fat. I am
with you there brother.