wrote:
Is the "National Electrical Code" on the web?

No. It is copyrighted.

But your local library more than likely has a copy
Plus they could have some useful handbooks on the Code
as well as DIY books.

Jim

It is not legally anywhere for free but like most things that come on a CD I
have seen it on warez newsgroups ... but that would be wrong.

Even if it is on the Web, it is (so some say) written in such a way that
the authors can get away with charging big buck$$$$ for seminars to
teach people what it all means.

MB


On 11/17/04 07:15 pm put fingers to keyboard and
launched the following message into cyberspace:

Is the "National Electrical Code" on the web?

Now how the hell can something part of regulation can be damn copyrighted.

If the government has any law, regulation, legislation that affects what we
can and can not do it should be accessible by all means and free !!!

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Is the "National Electrical Code" on the web?

No. It is copyrighted.

But your local library more than likely has a copy
Plus they could have some useful handbooks on the Code
as well as DIY books.

Jim

On 18 Nov 2004 01:48:45 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

It is not legally anywhere for free but like most things that come on a CD I
have seen it on warez newsgroups ... but that would be wrong.

As an author, this just gives me shivvers. I took 4 years off work,
with no paycheck, to do the original research and write my books, and
have invested much more than that in marketing. Nonetheless, there are
a great many people in this world who believe I should not be
compensated.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com

Even if it is on the Web, it is (so some say) written in such a way that
the authors can get away with charging big buck$$$$ for seminars to
teach people what it all means.

Most of the people in these seminars are required by law to put in a certain
number of hours in class every year as part of their licensing requirements.
These days you can get the same thing in professional chat groups but you won't
get the certified CEU hours.

The NEC is not a part of the government, but a nonprofit association.
http://www.nfpa.org/categoryList.asp...URL=About%20Us

If you want to order the code book go to your local hardware, book or
boxstore or order it on line from NFPA.
http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/category...=1&src=catalog

"MC" wrote in message
. ..
Now how the hell can something part of regulation can be damn copyrighted.

If the government has any law, regulation, legislation that affects what
we
can and can not do it should be accessible by all means and free !!!

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Is the "National Electrical Code" on the web?

No. It is copyrighted.

But your local library more than likely has a copy
Plus they could have some useful handbooks on the Code
as well as DIY books.

Jim

If the government has any law, regulation, legislation that affects what we
can and can not do it should be accessible by all means and free !!

If you think the NEC is expensive now, imagine how much it would cost if the
government was doing it. Nothing from the government is "free".

"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On 18 Nov 2004 01:48:45 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

It is not legally anywhere for free but like most things that come on a CD I
have seen it on warez newsgroups ... but that would be wrong.

As an author, this just gives me shivvers. I took 4 years off work,
with no paycheck, to do the original research and write my books, and
have invested much more than that in marketing. Nonetheless, there are
a great many people in this world who believe I should not be
compensated.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com


This is Turtle.

You should give your program away for free because you love the public so much
and you can live off of love and a second job.

TURTLE

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:18:36 -0600, "TURTLE"
wrote:


"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On 18 Nov 2004 01:48:45 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

It is not legally anywhere for free but like most things that come on a CD I
have seen it on warez newsgroups ... but that would be wrong.

As an author, this just gives me shivvers. I took 4 years off work,
with no paycheck, to do the original research and write my books, and
have invested much more than that in marketing. Nonetheless, there are
a great many people in this world who believe I should not be
compensated.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com


This is Turtle.

You should give your program away for free because you love the public so much
and you can live off of love and a second job.

TURTLE


You would be amazed at how many people would agree with that
statement, especially online where people expect and sometimes even
demand free information.

I give away a bare minimum of little helpful hints. If people want
actual knowledge they can buy my books.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:15:57 -0600, wrote:

Is the "National Electrical Code" on the web?

Yes. Not for free though.

Also, you won't understand it, and you'll apply the wrong sections.
Check instead with your local code officials for what applies to your
project, and get a basic wiring handbook.

Jeff

In article , "MC" wrote:
Now how the hell can something part of regulation can be damn copyrighted.

Because the National Fire Protection Association wrote it, and they therefore
own the copyright. It is up to individual states or municipalities to decide
whether to adopt the Code as law, or not, as they see fit. The NFPA has no
law-making or enforcement power.

If the government has any law, regulation, legislation that affects what we
can and can not do it should be accessible by all means and free !!!

And it normally is, in those jurisdictions where it has been adopted as law.

wrote:

Is the "National Electrical Code" on the web?

The code check series of books reduces the code down to understandable
pieces, intended as a quick lookup for the trades. Available for
electrical, hvac, plumbing, building.

IMHO well worth the $$. http://www.codecheck.com/ and of course, amazon.

I'll agree with other posters, the actual code book is more like
legalese, and will drive you nuts if you try to make sense of it.

"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:18:36 -0600, "TURTLE"
wrote:


"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On 18 Nov 2004 01:48:45 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

It is not legally anywhere for free but like most things that come on a CD I
have seen it on warez newsgroups ... but that would be wrong.

As an author, this just gives me shivvers. I took 4 years off work,
with no paycheck, to do the original research and write my books, and
have invested much more than that in marketing. Nonetheless, there are
a great many people in this world who believe I should not be
compensated.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com


This is Turtle.

You should give your program away for free because you love the public so much
and you can live off of love and a second job.

TURTLE


You would be amazed at how many people would agree with that
statement, especially online where people expect and sometimes even
demand free information.

I give away a bare minimum of little helpful hints. If people want
actual knowledge they can buy my books.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com


This is Turtle.

Come on now. I know you can live off of Love for a long time, but the Eating
habit will have to go.

TURTLE

I think there are some people who think copyright law should be more in line
with patent law.
It is absurd that the guy who invents a car that runs on sea water will lose
his patent protection in less than 2 decades but the guy who writes the
owner''s manual is protected for almost a century.

I think there are some people who think copyright law should be more in line
with patent law.
It is absurd that the guy who invents a car that runs on sea water will lose
his patent protection in less than 2 decades but the guy who writes the
owner''s manual is protected for almost a century.

Copyright protection doesn't really limit people the way patent
protection does, though. If you invent a new way to turn grass into
building panels, nobody else is allowed to do that, If you write
a story about a boy who meets a girl, and they hate each other,
and therefore fall in love, anyone else can write another story
on the same theme. So patents protect a much bigger
chunk of intellectual space, but for a shorter time period.

If you invent a new way to turn grass into
building panels, nobody else is allowed to do that,

Obviously you are not an inventor. In your example the person is protected from
someone using exactly the same method of turning grass into building panels but
if someone makes a minor change in the process they can patent it as the new
and improved grass panel.
It is much like your novel.
Again the basic idea is not protected, only the particular details of the
process to realize the idea.
It is also a lot harder to actually get a patent. That is why so many things
are marked "patent pending". If you actually waited until you got the patent
before you bring the product to market someone will knock you off and saturate
the market before you can stop them.
If you look at the history of great inventions it is never the guy who came up
with the idea who got rich, just the guy who got it to market first.

From: "TURTLE"



"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On 18 Nov 2004 01:48:45 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

It is not legally anywhere for free but like most things that come on a CD
I
have seen it on warez newsgroups ... but that would be wrong.

As an author, this just gives me shivvers. I took 4 years off work,
with no paycheck, to do the original research and write my books, and
have invested much more than that in marketing. Nonetheless, there are
a great many people in this world who believe I should not be
compensated.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com


This is Turtle.

You should give your program away for free because you love the public so
much
and you can live off of love and a second job.

TURTLE

And you call *me* the troll?

"HaHaHa" wrote in message
...
From: "TURTLE"



"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On 18 Nov 2004 01:48:45 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

It is not legally anywhere for free but like most things that come on a CD
I
have seen it on warez newsgroups ... but that would be wrong.

As an author, this just gives me shivvers. I took 4 years off work,
with no paycheck, to do the original research and write my books, and
have invested much more than that in marketing. Nonetheless, there are
a great many people in this world who believe I should not be
compensated.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com


This is Turtle.

You should give your program away for free because you love the public so
much
and you can live off of love and a second job.

TURTLE

And you call *me* the troll?


This is Turtle.

And Also you don't understand two hvac people a talking about the business do
you ?

TURTLE

On 20 Nov 2004 00:21:30 GMT, unkbloc (HaHaHa)
wrote:

From: "TURTLE"



"Gary R. Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On 18 Nov 2004 01:48:45 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

It is not legally anywhere for free but like most things that come on a CD
I
have seen it on warez newsgroups ... but that would be wrong.

As an author, this just gives me shivvers. I took 4 years off work,
with no paycheck, to do the original research and write my books, and
have invested much more than that in marketing. Nonetheless, there are
a great many people in this world who believe I should not be
compensated.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com


This is Turtle.

You should give your program away for free because you love the public so
much
and you can live off of love and a second job.

TURTLE

And you call *me* the troll?


Turtle and I understand each other. He was being facetious. (look it
up)

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com

MC wrote:
If the government has any law, regulation, legislation that affects what we
can and can not do it should be accessible by all means and free !!!

Should, but isn't. For example, there are now federal regulations regarding
air travel that you have to abide by, but aren't allow to know. All in the
name of national security.

wrote:

MC wrote:
If the government has any law, regulation, legislation that affects what we
can and can not do it should be accessible by all means and free !!!

Should, but isn't. For example, there are now federal regulations regarding
air travel that you have to abide by, but aren't allow to know. All in the
name of national security.

Government has nothing to do w/ NEC...it's a trade association standard,
privately financed. Didn't you read the other response(s)???

Regarding your other contention, I don't think there are any actual laws
that aren't available. There undoubtedly are specific implementation
regulations that for obvious reasons aren't disseminated to all. This
is nothing new (commercial nuclear power plants, for example, have had
security plans that are strictly confidential for years, far predating
9/11)...

The NFPA wouldn't make any money if they did that
"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
wrote:

MC wrote:
If the government has any law, regulation, legislation that affects
what we
can and can not do it should be accessible by all means and free !!!

Should, but isn't. For example, there are now federal regulations
regarding
air travel that you have to abide by, but aren't allow to know. All in
the
name of national security.

Government has nothing to do w/ NEC...it's a trade association standard,
privately financed. Didn't you read the other response(s)???

Regarding your other contention, I don't think there are any actual laws
that aren't available. There undoubtedly are specific implementation
regulations that for obvious reasons aren't disseminated to all. This
is nothing new (commercial nuclear power plants, for example, have had
security plans that are strictly confidential for years, far predating
9/11)...

Duane Bozarth wrote:

wrote:

MC wrote:

If the government has any law, regulation, legislation that affects what we
can and can not do it should be accessible by all means and free !!!

Should, but isn't. For example, there are now federal regulations regarding
air travel that you have to abide by, but aren't allow to know. All in the
name of national security.


Government has nothing to do w/ NEC...it's a trade association standard,
privately financed. Didn't you read the other response(s)???

Regarding your other contention, I don't think there are any actual laws
that aren't available. There undoubtedly are specific implementation
regulations that for obvious reasons aren't disseminated to all. This
is nothing new (commercial nuclear power plants, for example, have had
security plans that are strictly confidential for years, far predating
9/11)...

Right. The Federal Air Regulations (not to be confused with the
Federal Acquisitions Regs) are 14 CFR. You probably are interested in
Part 121.

Duane Bozarth wrote:
wrote:

MC wrote:
If the government has any law, regulation, legislation that affects what we
can and can not do it should be accessible by all means and free !!!

Should, but isn't. For example, there are now federal regulations regarding
air travel that you have to abide by, but aren't allow to know. All in the
name of national security.

Government has nothing to do w/ NEC...it's a trade association standard,
privately financed. Didn't you read the other response(s)???

Regarding your other contention, I don't think there are any actual laws
that aren't available. There undoubtedly are specific implementation
regulations that for obvious reasons aren't disseminated to all. This
is nothing new (commercial nuclear power plants, for example, have had
security plans that are strictly confidential for years, far predating
9/11)...

Nothing to do with implementation. See Gilmore vs Ashcroft.

In short, the goverment and airlines claim that federal regulations
require the showing of ID before boarding a US domestic flight, however
they *refuse* to say which law or regulatation actually says that, and
no such law or regulation has been published.