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TURTLE
 
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , "TURTLE"
wrote:

"Clark Griswold" wrote in message
news:iSgkd.594225$8_6.90242@attbi_s04...
It's sad to see Turtle go down in flames, but when you're wrong, you are
wrong.


This is Turtle.

There is no right and wrong here.


Bull****. Using 14/2 in a 20A circuit is wrong. No two ways about that. It's a
violation of the NEC.

You need to explain what is wrong here before you can say there is or
something
wrong.


That's been explained thoroughly already: the maximum overcurrent protection
permitted by the NEC for 14-gauge copper circuit conductors is 15A. Period.

In Louisiana the NEC code is Appliable but Home owner can do as they please as
long as they do the work by theirself and not get anybody '' for hire '' to
work on the job. Other states have different regulation that may let the NEC
code be
inforced by a homeowner doing the work but Louisiana has no such ability of
law
enforcement, fire dept. , or any inspection dept. of any thing to enforce a
home owner to wire his house a different way.\


OK, fine, we'll assume you're right about that. That does not change the
facts, which a
1) 14/2 on a 20A circuit is a violation of the NEC.
2) The NEC in some places (many, actually) carries the force of law.
3) It is therefore illegal in those places to use 14/2 on a 20A circuit.
4) Just because Louisiana allows it, does not mean it's allowable everywhere.

When you don't know the laws in a different state like Louisiana, you make
mistakes like you just did by speaking out or being a band wagon member.


Hellooooooooo..... Earth to Turtle.... *YOU* are the one who made the mistake,
out of ignorance of the laws in other jurisdictions. *You* made the blanket
statement that it's not illegal, ASSuming that what was true where you live
was true everywhere else. News flash: it's not.

Knowing
what NEC code say has nothing to do with what the state laws are on appling
the
NEC code. State laws can over ride NEC if they see fit to do so for NEC is a
Code and not a law of any kind.


False. In many places, the NEC is adopted by law, in its entirety, as the
electrical code for that jurisdiction, which means that _in_that_jurisdiction_
the NEC *is* the law.


This is Turtle.

Yes I will have to say I'm sorry for making a blanket statement on this but I
was think a little local code enforcement here in Louisiana. The point i was
making was the NEC is a code and not a law everywhere. The NEC is a code and if
a state or city wants to make it a law. they can but it will come from the state
or city laws to enforce it and there is nobody with NEC on their shirt will be
in the group enforcing it. Also your waisting you time explaining the NEC code
to me for I have to follow it to the letter for I'm ''For Hire'' and everytime i
have to run a circuit for the hvac business I have to check it out in the Ugly
Book first and then if need be the NEC. And yes a 14/2 wire on a 20 amp circuit
or breaker is a no no.

TURTLE


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TURTLE
 
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"Joe Fabeitz" wrote in message
...
Helpful hint of the day: Stay far away from Louisiana. Stay even futher
away from Turtle or anything he has ever worked on.


This is Turtle.

You don't read well for the word on the law were in respect to a home owner
doing the wiring and not a person for hire doing it.

Now i can't disagree with you on Louisiana being screwed up on Codes and
regulation of this nature for Louisiana's codes and regulations are about 20
years behind the other states. Let me give you one. Here in the town I live in
just about 5 years ago issued electric licences to the electricians working in
this city and before this time there was NONE. For referrence here. Oakdale ,
Louisiana 71463 and a POP. of 9K .

Also you show good promise in being a Troll. Have you tried it yet?

TURTLE


  #44   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
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"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Joe Fabeitz wrote:

Helpful hint of the day: Stay far away from Louisiana. Stay even futher
away from Turtle or anything he has ever worked on.



I've lived enough of my life in East Texas that I think I'm pretty safe in
saying this. Louisiana will be quite happy to have you stay away. ;-)

Best regards,
Bob


This is Turtle.

I don't know about that. We have some of the best idiots on the earth and hold
good jobs in the state government here. He might fit right in there.

TURTLE


  #45   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , "TURTLE"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...
In article , "TURTLE"
wrote:


Still you rant but a home owner can do as he pleases and do no illegal
wrong.
It's just again the code or code violation.

There is illegal and then there is a code violation. Two different horse you
can
concider.

Turtle, you don't seem to understand. In any jurisdiction that has adopted

the
NEC, the Code *is* the law, and a violation of the Code *is* a violation of
the law. You're trying to make a distinction that doesn't exist, except in
those jurisdictions that haven't adopted the Code (or a substitute).


This is Turtle.

There could be section of the country or citys that have a jail term for a
home

owner wiring his lights in his bed room the wrong way but in the state of
Louisiana there is no jail time stated for wiring your own home wrong. He can
wire it anyway he wants it. I have never heard of or know of any home owner
ever spent a day in jail for wiring his own house like he wanted it. If you
had a
jail term for screwing up your own house. Half the population of the U.S.
would
be in jail. You can't tell a home owner how he is to wire his house unless he
is using a contractor or electrician to do the work.


I never said anything about jail time; that's your own invention. But the fact
is that in some jurisdictions, there can be pretty heavy fines. And I assure
you that in those jurisdictions, the code enforcement authorities very
certainly *can* tell a homeowner how to wire his house; they can also tell
him he isn't allowed to touch it at all because he doesn't know what he's
doing.

[snip]

Check up on what a home owner can do and get back with me.


Educate yourself to a new fact: what's true in your particular locality is not
necessarily true everywhere. Just because _where_you_live_ there are no legal
penalties (as far as you know) for a homeowner who violates the NEC, does
*not* mean it's that way in other places.


This is Turtle.

I toally agree with you on this but Louisiana Home Owners can do what they want.
Someday they will get around to making the NEC a regulation to follow by home
owner but for not they do as they please. We are kind of backwards here.

TURTLE




  #47   Report Post  
Doug Miller
 
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In article , "TURTLE" wrote:

This is Turtle.

Yes I will have to say I'm sorry for making a blanket statement on this but I
was think a little local code enforcement here in Louisiana.


Fine. You are aware that there is more to the world than Louisiana, right?

The point i was
making was the NEC is a code and not a law everywhere.


It is the law in a lot of places. The point I was making is that you were
acting like it's not the law anywhere, and that's just not so. Glad you
realize that now.

The NEC is a code and if
a state or city wants to make it a law. they can but it will come from the
state
or city laws to enforce it and there is nobody with NEC on their shirt will be
in the group enforcing it. Also your waisting you time explaining the NEC code
to me for I have to follow it to the letter for I'm ''For Hire'' and everytime
i have to run a circuit for the hvac business I have to check it out in the Ugly
Book first and then if need be the NEC. And yes a 14/2 wire on a 20 amp circuit
or breaker is a no no.


Thank you. That is what I've been trying to tell you...
  #48   Report Post  
Doug Miller
 
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In article , "TURTLE" wrote:

This is Turtle.

I toally agree with you on this but Louisiana Home Owners can do what they
want.


So what? Unless the OP lives in Louisiana, that makes no difference. In a lot
of places, homeowners can *not* do whatever they want.

And I'll bet that's not true everywhere in Louisiana, either. I don't know one
way or the other, but I'll bet that your bigger cities have adopted the NEC,
or something similar, as law, and homeowners there are legally required to
follow it.
  #49   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...
In article , "TURTLE"
wrote:

This is Turtle.

I toally agree with you on this but Louisiana Home Owners can do what they
want.


So what? Unless the OP lives in Louisiana, that makes no difference. In a lot
of places, homeowners can *not* do whatever they want.

And I'll bet that's not true everywhere in Louisiana, either. I don't know one
way or the other, but I'll bet that your bigger cities have adopted the NEC,
or something similar, as law, and homeowners there are legally required to
follow it.


This is Turtle.

There one point here that will make Louisiana different from any other state of
the Union. Louisiana has Nepolianic Law which is left over from when it was
owned by other countrys and was bought by the U.S.A. All the other states
adopted the Common Wealth Law which is normal to most but Louisiana stuck with
Nepolianic Law which is deferrent form any other state. There was all kind of
laws passed and enforce as to homes, land , and personal property but Louisiana
still has Nepolianic Law which states that a owner of a home or where he lives
at can do what he wants with the house or land that he lives at. Now for the
city of New Orleans there is very stiff regulations of the NEC code and you
follow the letter of the NEC to the Tee. In a city like this with heavy
regulations on everything there, It still says by Nepolianic Law that a home
owner can do what he wants with his house as he pleases. The only way this
regulation will come into play is the home owner calls a craftman of some trade
to do the work. If so the state and parish regulation go into play. The Craftman
and the home owner both agreed to abide by the NEC code and regulation when this
happens. The seperating point between the Code and regulation is the hiring of
anybody to work at your home. If you hire a kid down the block to come help you.
Your hiring a '' for hire worker '' and come under the NEC and regulations.
It's hard to get by the regulations in Louisiana but it can be done.

The only way a home owner can do any electric work and not be covered by the NEC
and regulations is He himself alone does the work and has NOBODY for hire on his
land at the time of the work. There was a fellow in New Orleans that did some
electric work on his house and was reported to the city inspector. They could
say a word to him but he messed up. He installed a bunch of new circuits for a
back room and when he called a sheet rock fellow over to redo the walls that he
had messed up where he put new receptical in at. This brought in the NEC and
regulations for he had FOR HIRE people working on the job. He then had to get a
licenced Electrician to redo the mess up's and get the city permitts for the
work.

Now here is a good one for you when you have Nepolianic law in a state. There is
a state law still on the books that states that if you sell a item to a person
and the estimated life of the item is 20 years. You will warrent it for 20
years. A example of this is If I sell a HVAC system to a home owner and the
estimated life of the HVAC system is 17 years [ State Farm states Estimated life
of a hvac system is 17 years ] I will by Nepolianic Law will have to warrant it
for 17 years. I will have to repair it, Make good on it, or Give them their
money back. I know of nobody ever using this law but it is sitting there on the
books.

I again Totally agree with you that the NEC regulation should be followed to the
Letter but there is exceptions in different places of the country.

TURTLE


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