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#41
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"HA HA Budys Here" wrote in message ... From: "TURTLE" This is Turtle. There is no right and wrong here. You need to explain what is wrong here before you can say there is or something wrong. Just answer this. If the OP said he "mistakenly" ran #18 awg. bell wire, instead of 14/2 NM, would your answer be the same? Because wiring it either way is just as wrong. This is Turtle. You need to follow the conversation better and you will see my responce was not to the O.P. er. Too small of wire is in it'self WRONG to do but there is no wrong when a home owner does it for in Louisiana No inspector or government agency can say a word to him if he does it hisself and does not have a FOR HIRE person do it. FOR HIRE people get burned at the stake for this. And Yes, Hap your still a troll. TURTLE |
#42
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message om... In article , "TURTLE" wrote: "Clark Griswold" wrote in message news:iSgkd.594225$8_6.90242@attbi_s04... It's sad to see Turtle go down in flames, but when you're wrong, you are wrong. This is Turtle. There is no right and wrong here. Bull****. Using 14/2 in a 20A circuit is wrong. No two ways about that. It's a violation of the NEC. You need to explain what is wrong here before you can say there is or something wrong. That's been explained thoroughly already: the maximum overcurrent protection permitted by the NEC for 14-gauge copper circuit conductors is 15A. Period. In Louisiana the NEC code is Appliable but Home owner can do as they please as long as they do the work by theirself and not get anybody '' for hire '' to work on the job. Other states have different regulation that may let the NEC code be inforced by a homeowner doing the work but Louisiana has no such ability of law enforcement, fire dept. , or any inspection dept. of any thing to enforce a home owner to wire his house a different way.\ OK, fine, we'll assume you're right about that. That does not change the facts, which a 1) 14/2 on a 20A circuit is a violation of the NEC. 2) The NEC in some places (many, actually) carries the force of law. 3) It is therefore illegal in those places to use 14/2 on a 20A circuit. 4) Just because Louisiana allows it, does not mean it's allowable everywhere. When you don't know the laws in a different state like Louisiana, you make mistakes like you just did by speaking out or being a band wagon member. Hellooooooooo..... Earth to Turtle.... *YOU* are the one who made the mistake, out of ignorance of the laws in other jurisdictions. *You* made the blanket statement that it's not illegal, ASSuming that what was true where you live was true everywhere else. News flash: it's not. Knowing what NEC code say has nothing to do with what the state laws are on appling the NEC code. State laws can over ride NEC if they see fit to do so for NEC is a Code and not a law of any kind. False. In many places, the NEC is adopted by law, in its entirety, as the electrical code for that jurisdiction, which means that _in_that_jurisdiction_ the NEC *is* the law. This is Turtle. Yes I will have to say I'm sorry for making a blanket statement on this but I was think a little local code enforcement here in Louisiana. The point i was making was the NEC is a code and not a law everywhere. The NEC is a code and if a state or city wants to make it a law. they can but it will come from the state or city laws to enforce it and there is nobody with NEC on their shirt will be in the group enforcing it. Also your waisting you time explaining the NEC code to me for I have to follow it to the letter for I'm ''For Hire'' and everytime i have to run a circuit for the hvac business I have to check it out in the Ugly Book first and then if need be the NEC. And yes a 14/2 wire on a 20 amp circuit or breaker is a no no. TURTLE |
#43
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"Joe Fabeitz" wrote in message ... Helpful hint of the day: Stay far away from Louisiana. Stay even futher away from Turtle or anything he has ever worked on. This is Turtle. You don't read well for the word on the law were in respect to a home owner doing the wiring and not a person for hire doing it. Now i can't disagree with you on Louisiana being screwed up on Codes and regulation of this nature for Louisiana's codes and regulations are about 20 years behind the other states. Let me give you one. Here in the town I live in just about 5 years ago issued electric licences to the electricians working in this city and before this time there was NONE. For referrence here. Oakdale , Louisiana 71463 and a POP. of 9K . Also you show good promise in being a Troll. Have you tried it yet? TURTLE |
#44
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"zxcvbob" wrote in message ... Joe Fabeitz wrote: Helpful hint of the day: Stay far away from Louisiana. Stay even futher away from Turtle or anything he has ever worked on. I've lived enough of my life in East Texas that I think I'm pretty safe in saying this. Louisiana will be quite happy to have you stay away. ;-) Best regards, Bob This is Turtle. I don't know about that. We have some of the best idiots on the earth and hold good jobs in the state government here. He might fit right in there. TURTLE |
#45
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message om... In article , "TURTLE" wrote: "Doug Miller" wrote in message . com... In article , "TURTLE" wrote: Still you rant but a home owner can do as he pleases and do no illegal wrong. It's just again the code or code violation. There is illegal and then there is a code violation. Two different horse you can concider. Turtle, you don't seem to understand. In any jurisdiction that has adopted the NEC, the Code *is* the law, and a violation of the Code *is* a violation of the law. You're trying to make a distinction that doesn't exist, except in those jurisdictions that haven't adopted the Code (or a substitute). This is Turtle. There could be section of the country or citys that have a jail term for a home owner wiring his lights in his bed room the wrong way but in the state of Louisiana there is no jail time stated for wiring your own home wrong. He can wire it anyway he wants it. I have never heard of or know of any home owner ever spent a day in jail for wiring his own house like he wanted it. If you had a jail term for screwing up your own house. Half the population of the U.S. would be in jail. You can't tell a home owner how he is to wire his house unless he is using a contractor or electrician to do the work. I never said anything about jail time; that's your own invention. But the fact is that in some jurisdictions, there can be pretty heavy fines. And I assure you that in those jurisdictions, the code enforcement authorities very certainly *can* tell a homeowner how to wire his house; they can also tell him he isn't allowed to touch it at all because he doesn't know what he's doing. [snip] Check up on what a home owner can do and get back with me. Educate yourself to a new fact: what's true in your particular locality is not necessarily true everywhere. Just because _where_you_live_ there are no legal penalties (as far as you know) for a homeowner who violates the NEC, does *not* mean it's that way in other places. This is Turtle. I toally agree with you on this but Louisiana Home Owners can do what they want. Someday they will get around to making the NEC a regulation to follow by home owner but for not they do as they please. We are kind of backwards here. TURTLE |
#47
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In article , "TURTLE" wrote:
This is Turtle. Yes I will have to say I'm sorry for making a blanket statement on this but I was think a little local code enforcement here in Louisiana. Fine. You are aware that there is more to the world than Louisiana, right? The point i was making was the NEC is a code and not a law everywhere. It is the law in a lot of places. The point I was making is that you were acting like it's not the law anywhere, and that's just not so. Glad you realize that now. The NEC is a code and if a state or city wants to make it a law. they can but it will come from the state or city laws to enforce it and there is nobody with NEC on their shirt will be in the group enforcing it. Also your waisting you time explaining the NEC code to me for I have to follow it to the letter for I'm ''For Hire'' and everytime i have to run a circuit for the hvac business I have to check it out in the Ugly Book first and then if need be the NEC. And yes a 14/2 wire on a 20 amp circuit or breaker is a no no. Thank you. That is what I've been trying to tell you... |
#48
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In article , "TURTLE" wrote:
This is Turtle. I toally agree with you on this but Louisiana Home Owners can do what they want. So what? Unless the OP lives in Louisiana, that makes no difference. In a lot of places, homeowners can *not* do whatever they want. And I'll bet that's not true everywhere in Louisiana, either. I don't know one way or the other, but I'll bet that your bigger cities have adopted the NEC, or something similar, as law, and homeowners there are legally required to follow it. |
#49
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message . com... In article , "TURTLE" wrote: This is Turtle. I toally agree with you on this but Louisiana Home Owners can do what they want. So what? Unless the OP lives in Louisiana, that makes no difference. In a lot of places, homeowners can *not* do whatever they want. And I'll bet that's not true everywhere in Louisiana, either. I don't know one way or the other, but I'll bet that your bigger cities have adopted the NEC, or something similar, as law, and homeowners there are legally required to follow it. This is Turtle. There one point here that will make Louisiana different from any other state of the Union. Louisiana has Nepolianic Law which is left over from when it was owned by other countrys and was bought by the U.S.A. All the other states adopted the Common Wealth Law which is normal to most but Louisiana stuck with Nepolianic Law which is deferrent form any other state. There was all kind of laws passed and enforce as to homes, land , and personal property but Louisiana still has Nepolianic Law which states that a owner of a home or where he lives at can do what he wants with the house or land that he lives at. Now for the city of New Orleans there is very stiff regulations of the NEC code and you follow the letter of the NEC to the Tee. In a city like this with heavy regulations on everything there, It still says by Nepolianic Law that a home owner can do what he wants with his house as he pleases. The only way this regulation will come into play is the home owner calls a craftman of some trade to do the work. If so the state and parish regulation go into play. The Craftman and the home owner both agreed to abide by the NEC code and regulation when this happens. The seperating point between the Code and regulation is the hiring of anybody to work at your home. If you hire a kid down the block to come help you. Your hiring a '' for hire worker '' and come under the NEC and regulations. It's hard to get by the regulations in Louisiana but it can be done. The only way a home owner can do any electric work and not be covered by the NEC and regulations is He himself alone does the work and has NOBODY for hire on his land at the time of the work. There was a fellow in New Orleans that did some electric work on his house and was reported to the city inspector. They could say a word to him but he messed up. He installed a bunch of new circuits for a back room and when he called a sheet rock fellow over to redo the walls that he had messed up where he put new receptical in at. This brought in the NEC and regulations for he had FOR HIRE people working on the job. He then had to get a licenced Electrician to redo the mess up's and get the city permitts for the work. Now here is a good one for you when you have Nepolianic law in a state. There is a state law still on the books that states that if you sell a item to a person and the estimated life of the item is 20 years. You will warrent it for 20 years. A example of this is If I sell a HVAC system to a home owner and the estimated life of the HVAC system is 17 years [ State Farm states Estimated life of a hvac system is 17 years ] I will by Nepolianic Law will have to warrant it for 17 years. I will have to repair it, Make good on it, or Give them their money back. I know of nobody ever using this law but it is sitting there on the books. I again Totally agree with you that the NEC regulation should be followed to the Letter but there is exceptions in different places of the country. TURTLE |
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