"rotation slim" wrote in message
om...
IMHO it all depends on what you are using the tools for. If you are a
carpenter and build houses you have very different needs than if you a
weekend hack (like myself) who uses the tools occasionally.

Being a weekend hack, and at the risk of offending the hardcores on
this board, I love cordless tools. I literally found a Dewalt
cordless drill 14.4v in the road about 7 years ago, bought a charger,
and have used it ever since. (felt bad for the poor chump who lost
it, put a sign up on a telephone pole near where I found it saying
"Tool Found and my phone # but no one ever called.) It is all a
matter of how much you plan to use them. I am starting to lust over
those matched sets at Home Depot, where you have a bunch of cordless
tools and they are all using the same batteries, I can see how that
would be nice.

Nothing wrong with Home Depot, but the matched sets they have, range from
the very inexpensive Ryobi to more expensive brands. Based on the
information I've gotten here, though, it appears that if one is going to be
using the tools, more than a couple of times a year, then spending a bit
more and getting a makita, or some similar brand, is a wise choice.

Save the flames, I know I have revealed myself as a pretender by the
fact that I recomend: 1) cordless Tools 2) buying tools at Home Depot;
but it makes a lot of sense if you are like me, and only get to use
them occasionally for minor projects around the house, why buy an
Hummer H2 if I only drive around on city roads, sure it would look
cool, and I'd feel manly behind the wheel, but when I commute 60 miles
a day on city roads, it makes a lot more sense to get a Honda Accord.

I have heard mixed reviews about the Dewalt (isn't that the B&D high end,
nowadays?). Don;t know much about the Porte Cable, but I'll look into that.


"Joe Fabeitz" wrote in message
. ..
Harry,
Unlike shoes and boots, relacing doesn't do much for power tools. You
might
want to consider buying new ones. Porter Cable and Dewalt are pretty
good.

"Harry" wrote in message
vers.com...
I don't know if this is the right newsgroup (if not, can someone point me
to
the appropriate one?), but I'm thinkong of relacing all my old (B&D)
power
tolls, and with all the choices nowadays, I was hoping for some
suggestions
(Ver speed drill, cordless driver, reciprocating saw, skill saw, jig
saw,...) the works.

Very good suggestion. No, I don;t need to get an assortment, unles the
price (for the collection) is so much better and I was going to replace a
number of tools, anyway. I'l also look into the pneumatic tools, since many
seem to think they are a better choice.

--

"Brikp" wrote in message
...
Harry - Might I suggest a slightly different approach.

Buy tools as you need them. When you need them buy the best quality you
can afford while considering the cost and actual likely use. Pneumatic is
good. Milwaukee, Makita are good. Cordless are good, corded are good.
There are too many options. If you post over on rec.woodworking at least
one person will ask you for the what do you need the tool for. The
responses wont be too helpful.

I'll give you an example. I am building a small shaker style end table.
One drawer, 18"x19" top and delicate tapered legs. There is this
particular tool that will be helpful in this endeavor and I will invest in
it. For project this its just a scraper, under $10, but I haven't needed
one to date. I also need a particular router bit with a profile I do not
have.

You get the point.

If you MUST go and get an assortment of power tools I would consider the
Milwaukee 18v combo kit.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=hi&n=507846

Dewalt is made by B&D.

Have fun


"Harry" wrote in message
vers.com...
I don't know if this is the right newsgroup (if not, can someone point me
to the appropriate one?), but I'm thinkong of relacing all my old (B&D)
power tolls, and with all the choices nowadays, I was hoping for some
suggestions (Ver speed drill, cordless driver, reciprocating saw, skill
saw, jig saw,...) the works.

--

"Bo Williams" wrote in message
...
Harry wrote:

I don't know if this is the right newsgroup (if not, can someone point me
to the appropriate one?), but I'm thinkong of relacing all my old (B&D)
power tolls, and with all the choices nowadays, I was hoping for some
suggestions (Ver speed drill, cordless driver, reciprocating saw, skill
saw, jig saw,...) the works.

Different lines have different strengths and weaknesses. If you have a
fetish to have all of your tools look the same, then you'll probably still
do all right, but you'll have a situation where you could have made
slightly better choices here and there.

No such fetish :-) I was thinking more in terms of things like batteries,
etc. being interchangeable acroos tools of the same line, that's all.

Spend some time at Google Groups on this. There's enough information
already out there to last you the rest of the year in reading time.

Will do that, thanks.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:40:32 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Some of them need replacing (triggers broken, etc.) I actually took a look
at B&D again, but was told that they are no longer considered a "good"
brand, just like Skill, Ryobi, etc. Makita seems to be a brand many are
quck to recommend. You are the second person to mention pneumatic tools.
I'll have to take a look at them.

Take yer newmatic drill to the top of a 20' ladder one time...by
yourself. Get back to us!

Skil has a nice, cordless package now. Its an 18v. cordless circular
saw (7 1/4 blade!!), recip saw, drill, and a battery, I think...for
just under $200. I wish I had seen it before I just bought my new
drill.

Also, consider Harbor Freight. I just bought an 18v. 1/2" 2 speed
gear box drill there...hammer drill!!...for under $30. Couldn't be
more pleased. Juice tester light on the battery...keyless chuck...
handy, strong magnet on the drill...bit holder there,
too...level...twist out of the way battery. Extra battery was $8.95.
A charge lasts me about a month.

HF has some good quality stuff.

Good luck.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

"Trent©" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:40:32 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Some of them need replacing (triggers broken, etc.) I actually took a
look
at B&D again, but was told that they are no longer considered a "good"
brand, just like Skill, Ryobi, etc. Makita seems to be a brand many are
quck to recommend. You are the second person to mention pneumatic tools.
I'll have to take a look at them.

Take yer newmatic drill to the top of a 20' ladder one time...by
yourself. Get back to us!

Skil has a nice, cordless package now. Its an 18v. cordless circular
saw (7 1/4 blade!!), recip saw, drill, and a battery, I think...for
just under $200. I wish I had seen it before I just bought my new
drill.

Also, consider Harbor Freight. I just bought an 18v. 1/2" 2 speed
gear box drill there...hammer drill!!...for under $30. Couldn't be
more pleased. Juice tester light on the battery...keyless chuck...
handy, strong magnet on the drill...bit holder there,
too...level...twist out of the way battery. Extra battery was $8.95.
A charge lasts me about a month.

HF has some good quality stuff.

I took a look at Harbor Freight, and I saw that they carry brand names at
comparable prices. I also saw that they carry some cheap brands that I have
never heard of before (Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc.) I wonder how
those compare to Ryobi, Skill and other "generic" brands.

"Harry" wrote:

"Trent©" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:40:32 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Some of them need replacing (triggers broken, etc.) I actually took a
look
at B&D again, but was told that they are no longer considered a "good"
brand, just like Skill, Ryobi, etc. Makita seems to be a brand many are
quck to recommend. You are the second person to mention pneumatic tools.
I'll have to take a look at them.

Take yer newmatic drill to the top of a 20' ladder one time...by
yourself. Get back to us!

Skil has a nice, cordless package now. Its an 18v. cordless circular
saw (7 1/4 blade!!), recip saw, drill, and a battery, I think...for
just under $200. I wish I had seen it before I just bought my new
drill.

Also, consider Harbor Freight. I just bought an 18v. 1/2" 2 speed
gear box drill there...hammer drill!!...for under $30. Couldn't be
more pleased. Juice tester light on the battery...keyless chuck...
handy, strong magnet on the drill...bit holder there,
too...level...twist out of the way battery. Extra battery was $8.95.
A charge lasts me about a month.

HF has some good quality stuff.

I took a look at Harbor Freight, and I saw that they carry brand names at
comparable prices. I also saw that they carry some cheap brands that I have
never heard of before (Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc.) I wonder how
those compare to Ryobi, Skill and other "generic" brands.


Those are not generic brands. Chicago electric is the name Harbor
Freight gives their imported tools.

Tool Shop is the one Menard's (a big chain by me) uses. MIT (something
Industrial Tools) is the one at the local Ace - in the el cheapo bin.

Ryobi is a brand, it happens to be Japanese.
Skill is a brand, they are still in business, although I think bought up
by someone.

If your going to buy a container load of tools, the factories, in most
likely China, will slap what ever name you want on it, that is what is
meant by generic import tools.

On 25 Oct 2004 09:25:10 -0700, (Greg) wrote:

In fact, I'm trying to wrap my brain around the idea of getting a nail
gun, which I assumed would have to be an air tool. But now I see that
there are some models that use a fuel cell instead. I'm wondering if
they might be a good choice for my needs. (sporadic, home handyman
stuff). If I don't need a tether, I'm happy to do without it.

Greg Guarino

They sell battery brad guns, Greg. I know PC has one...that I almost
bought. I think Senco has one now, too.

I put off getting a brad nailer until just last year. Now I don't
know how I ever lived without one!


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

You forgot another option. If you have to do some work way out in the
back yard and you don't have an extension cord long enough, you can drag
the generator out there to power the air compressor that you dragged out
there, so you can use the air driven tool. :-)

Don't forget to drag the gas and oil out there, too. And you'll be
runnin' that generator and compressor constantly...even when yer not
actually usin' the tool! lol


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:19:10 GMT, PaPaPeng wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:36:12 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Other than for circular hand saws go pneumatic tools for everything
else. They are light, safe, self cleaning, variable power and don't
burn out when they stall. Plus you get tools that electric powered
ones can't do.

I never thought of that. Any particular brand?


Nope. Just don't get an oiless compressor. Mine is but the feedback
is that its not durable and its noisy. Get at least 5 HP with a large
tank. Pneumatic tools are also intrinsically safe. You can even use
them in wet environments.

Pneumatic tools are run by an electrical compressor...so I'd be
careful of the electricity in wet environments. With today's
available technology, you should always be using a GFCI extension cord
when you use any electric tools.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

"Harry" wrote in message
rvers.com...
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:mE7fd.3568$PZ4.788@trndny07...

"Harry" wrote in message news:c47a2
Actually, everything I have is B&D. They were very popular for the home
owner/amateur fixer-upper 25 yrs ago ;-) You are the first person to say
thet even the cheaper brands will do well if you take good care of them.
So, may be I should ust replace the failing tools with the same brand.
Hmm... not a bad idea.

B & D is not the same quality today. I'd pass over them but they may hold
up for the occasional user. You won't see any tradesmen using them today.

That seems to be the trend, in general... I've actually gotten lots of
interesting responses, in this newsgroup, which is great. Based on what I've
seen so far, I think I'm better off spending a bit more and getting makita(s)
or equivalent.

This is Turtle.

Yes it is always better to have better tools to use and last longer but one
thing that I will have every 2 or 3 years and you will have the same old one
running and beat up, cord broken, and look like hell. I will have bright shinny
new tools every 2 or 3 years and you will have the same old one's that your
friends may talk about you having that old stuff and should have new ones. The
reason i say this is I have a old Millwalkee recept saw that is about 20 years
old and looks like hell and has not a bit of paint on it but runs good. My crew
laugh at it everytime i pull it out to cut something with it. Also I have had to
replace the Cord on it 3 times in 20 years.

TURTLE

"John Hines" wrote in message
...
"Harry" wrote:

"Trent©" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:40:32 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Some of them need replacing (triggers broken, etc.) I actually took a
look
at B&D again, but was told that they are no longer considered a "good"
brand, just like Skill, Ryobi, etc. Makita seems to be a brand many are
quck to recommend. You are the second person to mention pneumatic
tools.
I'll have to take a look at them.

Take yer newmatic drill to the top of a 20' ladder one time...by
yourself. Get back to us!

Skil has a nice, cordless package now. Its an 18v. cordless circular
saw (7 1/4 blade!!), recip saw, drill, and a battery, I think...for
just under $200. I wish I had seen it before I just bought my new
drill.

Also, consider Harbor Freight. I just bought an 18v. 1/2" 2 speed
gear box drill there...hammer drill!!...for under $30. Couldn't be
more pleased. Juice tester light on the battery...keyless chuck...
handy, strong magnet on the drill...bit holder there,
too...level...twist out of the way battery. Extra battery was $8.95.
A charge lasts me about a month.

HF has some good quality stuff.

I took a look at Harbor Freight, and I saw that they carry brand names at
comparable prices. I also saw that they carry some cheap brands that I
have
never heard of before (Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc.) I wonder how
those compare to Ryobi, Skill and other "generic" brands.


Those are not generic brands. Chicago electric is the name Harbor
Freight gives their imported tools.

Tool Shop is the one Menard's (a big chain by me) uses. MIT (something
Industrial Tools) is the one at the local Ace - in the el cheapo bin.

Ryobi is a brand, it happens to be Japanese.
Skill is a brand, they are still in business, although I think bought up
by someone.

If your going to buy a container load of tools, the factories, in most
likely China, will slap what ever name you want on it, that is what is
meant by generic import tools.

Sorry, I *did* get the terminology all messed up :-( But, I think I got the
answer to my question (in a round-about way g). Ryobi and Skill are
brands, it's just that they are lower quality that others (DeWalt, Makita,
etc.) Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc. are imported, no-name, cheap
stuff that is named by each store that imports them. So, in terms of my
question, as to how they compare, the quality of these store-named-imports
are lower qiality than the low-priced brand ones (Ryobi, Skill, etc.)
RIght?

I recently needed a saber-saw.

At best, it would be used for occasional household projects,
so I wasn't looking for the "mil-spec" model.

I ended up buying a "Made in China" special
for $19.95 at KMART.

I have to say, it's the best made, smoothest running
saber saw I've ever owned.
( previous saws;. Craftsman, B&D, SKIL )

Seems more than adequate for the job.
If you add up the total run-time for most househokld tools,
I doubt you'd exceed FIVE HOURS !
( and that's alot of run-time )


rj

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:58:37 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Ryobi and Skill are
brands, it's just that they are lower quality that others (DeWalt, Makita,
etc.)

Lower quality? No. Simply different specs. Some are production
tools...some are handyman tools. Both are good quality...but within
their own realm.

Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc. are imported, no-name, cheap
stuff that is named by each store that imports them.

No...that's not correct.

So, in terms of my
question, as to how they compare, the quality of these store-named-imports
are lower qiality than the low-priced brand ones (Ryobi, Skill, etc.)
RIght?

Wrong. Within their own right, the quality is good.

A good analogy...sailing. If yer going 5 miles along the Atlantic
coast, a 30 hp motor and the Queen Mary or similar super liner will
both get you there. One will cost more...and be over kill for the
task at hand. They will both have the quality to get the task
accomplished.

But if yer goin' from New York to England, the 30 hp motor probably
won't make it. The QUALITY will still be there...but will be
overshadowed by the enormous task at hand.

Enter into the equation...prejudice. Many folks are prejudiced as to
the tool and the retailer selling it.

An example? If I had a choice between a DeWalt & a Ryobi...I'd take
the Ryobi every time!


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:29:51 -0700, "RJ"
wrote:

Seems more than adequate for the job.
If you add up the total run-time for most househokld tools,
I doubt you'd exceed FIVE HOURS !
( and that's alot of run-time )


That's a very good point.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

"Trent©" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:58:37 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Ryobi and Skill are
brands, it's just that they are lower quality that others (DeWalt, Makita,
etc.)

Lower quality? No. Simply different specs. Some are production
tools...some are handyman tools. Both are good quality...but within
their own realm.

Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc. are imported, no-name, cheap
stuff that is named by each store that imports them.

No...that's not correct.

So, in terms of my
question, as to how they compare, the quality of these store-named-imports
are lower qiality than the low-priced brand ones (Ryobi, Skill, etc.)
RIght?

Wrong. Within their own right, the quality is good.

A good analogy...sailing. If yer going 5 miles along the Atlantic
coast, a 30 hp motor and the Queen Mary or similar super liner will
both get you there. One will cost more...and be over kill for the
task at hand. They will both have the quality to get the task
accomplished.

But if yer goin' from New York to England, the 30 hp motor probably
won't make it. The QUALITY will still be there...but will be
overshadowed by the enormous task at hand.

Enter into the equation...prejudice. Many folks are prejudiced as to
the tool and the retailer selling it.

An example? If I had a choice between a DeWalt & a Ryobi...I'd take
the Ryobi every time!

I'm so confused :-( I mean I understand the logic, and I understand that
part of this is personal preference, and all that, but from an "amateur
handyman's" stand point, let's see. If I needed a cordless drill to have
around for the ocasional use, an inexpensive 14.4 V Chicago Electric would
be fine. However, if later on I wanted to, let's say, finish my basement,
then I'd need to go out and buy a more expensive model. Is that right? Or
unless I use the cordless drill on a daily basis, to make a living, then a
cheaper model would be O.K., even if I decide to do some bigger projects
around the house?

Like someone else said in this thread, it'd be good if someone had
experience in long term use of many different models, so they could give a
comparative opinion. But, that is not a very common thing, so...

BTW, why would you take the Ryobi every time, if you had a choice between a
DeWalt and a Ryobi? I think I'm missing something.

Finally, I want to thank you, and every one else, for your thoughtful
comments.

Subject: Tool advice
From: "Harry"
Date: 10/25/2004 9:59 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: .com

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
Harry wrote:
"Phisherman" wrote in message
news On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:49:50 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

I don't know if this is the right newsgroup (if not, can someone
point me to
the appropriate one?), but I'm thinkong of relacing all my old
(B&D) power tolls, and with all the choices nowadays, I was
hoping for some suggestions
(Ver speed drill, cordless driver, reciprocating saw, skill saw,
jig saw,...) the works.


Why? The old B&D power tools were well-built. I still have a B&D
palm sander. Last year my 35 year old B&D died, and I replaced it
with a Milwaukee that has a larger chuck. Makita brand power tools
are very good. Porter Cable, Bosch and DeWalt are better than
average. Cordless tools are rather expensive and it is rare they
last longer than a few years. In recent years I have been moving
toward pneumatic tools rather than cordless.

Some of them need replacing (triggers broken, etc.) I actually
took a look at B&D again, but was told that they are no longer
considered a "good" brand, just like Skill, Ryobi, etc. Makita
seems to be a brand many are quck to recommend. You are the second
person to mention pneumatic tools. I'll have to take a look at them.

B&D has various lines (as do most others)...professional, homeowner, etc.
Their Pro stuff is as good as anyone elses. Also, you can replace
triggers,
etc.

Well, you are talking to someone who just "pretends" to be a handyman :-)
Seriously, though, not having experience with brands, etc., it's hard to
tell whether some powertool is good, or a good value. COuple that with the
fact that many (most ?) sales people don't really know much about the tools
they are selling and... For example, HD has a set

Black & Decker GelMax 14.4 Volt Drill/Studfinder/Flashlight for $80

I don't care for the flashlight and the Studfinder, but it comes with 2
batteries (which is good). My first impulse was, B&W is a descent band,
14.4 Volts sounds powerful enought, and the price is not bad. But when I
talked to the sales people and they told me, "... you really want to stay
away from B&D, you really want this 18 Volt Makita for $199,..." That
totally confused me.

BTW, I hadn't though about the replacement part route. I'll try that, as
well - thanks!


Unless you plan on using the tool every day, the Black & Decker, with the 2
batteries sounds like a good deal. Even if you find something less expensive
than that (at least 14.4 V), it would be good for a weekend-type use.

Subject: Tool advice
From: "Harry"
Date: 10/26/2004 3:15 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: rs.com

"Trent©" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:40:32 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Some of them need replacing (triggers broken, etc.) I actually took a
look
at B&D again, but was told that they are no longer considered a "good"
brand, just like Skill, Ryobi, etc. Makita seems to be a brand many are
quck to recommend. You are the second person to mention pneumatic tools.
I'll have to take a look at them.

Take yer newmatic drill to the top of a 20' ladder one time...by
yourself. Get back to us!

Skil has a nice, cordless package now. Its an 18v. cordless circular
saw (7 1/4 blade!!), recip saw, drill, and a battery, I think...for
just under $200. I wish I had seen it before I just bought my new
drill.

Also, consider Harbor Freight. I just bought an 18v. 1/2" 2 speed
gear box drill there...hammer drill!!...for under $30. Couldn't be
more pleased. Juice tester light on the battery...keyless chuck...
handy, strong magnet on the drill...bit holder there,
too...level...twist out of the way battery. Extra battery was $8.95.
A charge lasts me about a month.

HF has some good quality stuff.

I took a look at Harbor Freight, and I saw that they carry brand names at
comparable prices. I also saw that they carry some cheap brands that I have
never heard of before (Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc.) I wonder how
those compare to Ryobi, Skill and other "generic" brands.



Chicago Electrical is great. I have a couple of their tools, and they do as
good a job as my Makita's, plus I don't have to worry about dammaging them or
losing them, because I can replace them very easily. I do, however, get the
rolling of the eyes when friends see me using a very non-distinct loking tool,
while their DeWalt driver is clearly marked "DeWalt". I don't care smile.

"Harry" wrote:

"Trent©" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:58:37 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Ryobi and Skill are
brands, it's just that they are lower quality that others (DeWalt, Makita,
etc.)

Lower quality? No. Simply different specs. Some are production
tools...some are handyman tools. Both are good quality...but within
their own realm.

Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc. are imported, no-name, cheap
stuff that is named by each store that imports them.

No...that's not correct.

So, in terms of my
question, as to how they compare, the quality of these store-named-imports
are lower qiality than the low-priced brand ones (Ryobi, Skill, etc.)
RIght?

Wrong. Within their own right, the quality is good.

A good analogy...sailing. If yer going 5 miles along the Atlantic
coast, a 30 hp motor and the Queen Mary or similar super liner will
both get you there. One will cost more...and be over kill for the
task at hand. They will both have the quality to get the task
accomplished.

But if yer goin' from New York to England, the 30 hp motor probably
won't make it. The QUALITY will still be there...but will be
overshadowed by the enormous task at hand.

Enter into the equation...prejudice. Many folks are prejudiced as to
the tool and the retailer selling it.

An example? If I had a choice between a DeWalt & a Ryobi...I'd take
the Ryobi every time!

I'm so confused :-( I mean I understand the logic, and I understand that
part of this is personal preference, and all that, but from an "amateur
handyman's" stand point, let's see. If I needed a cordless drill to have
around for the ocasional use, an inexpensive 14.4 V Chicago Electric would
be fine. However, if later on I wanted to, let's say, finish my basement,
then I'd need to go out and buy a more expensive model. Is that right? Or
unless I use the cordless drill on a daily basis, to make a living, then a
cheaper model would be O.K., even if I decide to do some bigger projects
around the house?

You can also buy the cheaper model, use it, and when you get enough "I
wish it had...", then go look for a good model, that does what you are
looking for in a tool.

You can _always_ sell used tools at a garage sale.

If you buy, say a $40 hammer drill, and after putting in a couple dozen
fasteners, decide you want a bigger, better one, but by then you will
know what it is your looking for.

There is an awful lot of brand name favoritism out there in the tool
world.

The right tool is the one that gets the job done, at a price you can
afford.

Harry wrote:

"Trent=A9" wrote in message=20
...

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:58:37 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Ryobi and Skill are
brands, it's just that they are lower quality that others (DeWalt,=20
Makita,
etc.)


Lower quality? No. Simply different specs. Some are production
tools...some are handyman tools. Both are good quality...but within
their own realm.

Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc. are imported, no-name, cheap
stuff that is named by each store that imports them.


No...that's not correct.

So, in terms of my
question, as to how they compare, the quality of these=20
store-named-imports
are lower qiality than the low-priced brand ones (Ryobi, Skill, etc.)=

RIght?


Wrong. Within their own right, the quality is good.

A good analogy...sailing. If yer going 5 miles along the Atlantic
coast, a 30 hp motor and the Queen Mary or similar super liner will
both get you there. One will cost more...and be over kill for the
task at hand. They will both have the quality to get the task
accomplished.

But if yer goin' from New York to England, the 30 hp motor probably
won't make it. The QUALITY will still be there...but will be
overshadowed by the enormous task at hand.

Enter into the equation...prejudice. Many folks are prejudiced as to
the tool and the retailer selling it.

An example? If I had a choice between a DeWalt & a Ryobi...I'd take
the Ryobi every time!


I'm so confused :-( I mean I understand the logic, and I understand=20
that part of this is personal preference, and all that, but from an=20
"amateur handyman's" stand point, let's see. If I needed a cordless=20
drill to have around for the ocasional use, an inexpensive 14.4 V=20
Chicago Electric would be fine. However, if later on I wanted to,=20
let's say, finish my basement, then I'd need to go out and buy a more=20
expensive model. Is that right? Or unless I use the cordless drill=20
on a daily basis, to make a living, then a cheaper model would be=20
O.K., even if I decide to do some bigger projects around the house?

Like someone else said in this thread, it'd be good if someone had=20
experience in long term use of many different models, so they could=20
give a comparative opinion. But, that is not a very common thing, so..=
=2E


Long term does not mean anything. It is the amount of use that
determines the life span of the tool.
You can buy a cheap tool, use it a few times a year to cut a few pieces
of wood, drill a few holes or drive a few screws, and it will probably
last as long as the most expensive tool.
My Ryobi 18v cordless is a few years old, and if I add up all the times
it was actually running, it would probably only add up to a couple of
hours. I probably pick it up no more than 10 or 12 times a year and use
it for a couple of minutes of actual running time. If you are using a
drill/driver for wood, it probably takes less than 5 seconds of running
time to drill a hole or drive a screw.
The biggest continuous job I did with my Ryobi drill was installing a
vinyl picket fence on 3 sides around my inground pool two years ago. The
fence consisted of 14 - 8' sections, screwed between 4x4 PT posts, and
included 2x3 studs that I slid into the hollow plastic fence rails for
added strength. Each 8' section required 4 hangers with 6 screws for
each hanger (2 to hold the hanger to the 4x4 post and 2 screws on either
side of the hanger to hold the rail), for a total of 24 screws per
section. Including the hardware for two gates, that's probably around
360 screws. At 5 seconds per screw, that's about 1800 seconds, or 30
minutes of actual running time ( I did have to replace the battery at
least a couple of times).




BTW, why would you take the Ryobi every time, if you had a choice=20
between a DeWalt and a Ryobi? I think I'm missing something.

Finally, I want to thank you, and every one else, for your thoughtful=20
comments.

Ok, enough of this drivel. All tools are NOT created equal. One 18V drill
may be 10 times better than the other. Price usually does indicate the
quality, durability, features, etc. Albeit some comparable models may differ
in price by more than 100 bucks. For occasional around the house handyman
tasks, i.e. hanging pictures, doors (hinges) etc, the cheaper thrift store
models will suffice. If you are a little more adventuresome by building your
own deck or shed, remodeling your basement etc, you may opt for a more
expensive tool if you plan on completing the job before you burn up the
cheap model. In other words don't try to use a 3 cylinder economy car to
pull your houseboat. Yes both are vehicles that get you from here to there,
but one is better designed to pull the boat. Same deal with the drills. When
you step up again and decide to start your own handyman company and build
decks and sheds for "others" then you need to get into a more "professional
series" piece of equipment. The DeWalt cordless products fit that
description. Next step down Craftsman Professional, Bosch High End. Then on
Down to the Skill, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Craftsman, Rigid, Porter Cable.
After that you get the home tinker stuff like the Chicago Electric, more
Skill, Black and Decker. Yes I know DeWalt is Black and Decker but FYI
Mercedes is Chrysler.
So to sum it up for you, If you don't need a $300 dust collector drill
sitting in your already cluttered garage, opt for a $39 Chicago. If you want
a little more drill for only a little more money go with a Craftsman
(regular series), The professional Series is quite a bit higher. The
Firestorm, Skill etc are all in the same range and some come with some nifty
little toys that you probably won't use, like a light, sander, etc.


ReRe
"willshak" wrote in message
...
Harry wrote:

"Trent©" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:58:37 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Ryobi and Skill are
brands, it's just that they are lower quality that others (DeWalt,
Makita,
etc.)


Lower quality? No. Simply different specs. Some are production
tools...some are handyman tools. Both are good quality...but within
their own realm.

Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc. are imported, no-name, cheap
stuff that is named by each store that imports them.


No...that's not correct.

So, in terms of my
question, as to how they compare, the quality of these
store-named-imports
are lower qiality than the low-priced brand ones (Ryobi, Skill, etc.)
RIght?


Wrong. Within their own right, the quality is good.

A good analogy...sailing. If yer going 5 miles along the Atlantic
coast, a 30 hp motor and the Queen Mary or similar super liner will
both get you there. One will cost more...and be over kill for the
task at hand. They will both have the quality to get the task
accomplished.

But if yer goin' from New York to England, the 30 hp motor probably
won't make it. The QUALITY will still be there...but will be
overshadowed by the enormous task at hand.

Enter into the equation...prejudice. Many folks are prejudiced as to
the tool and the retailer selling it.

An example? If I had a choice between a DeWalt & a Ryobi...I'd take
the Ryobi every time!


I'm so confused :-( I mean I understand the logic, and I understand
that part of this is personal preference, and all that, but from an
"amateur handyman's" stand point, let's see. If I needed a cordless
drill to have around for the ocasional use, an inexpensive 14.4 V
Chicago Electric would be fine. However, if later on I wanted to,
let's say, finish my basement, then I'd need to go out and buy a more
expensive model. Is that right? Or unless I use the cordless drill
on a daily basis, to make a living, then a cheaper model would be
O.K., even if I decide to do some bigger projects around the house?

Like someone else said in this thread, it'd be good if someone had
experience in long term use of many different models, so they could
give a comparative opinion. But, that is not a very common thing, so...


Long term does not mean anything. It is the amount of use that
determines the life span of the tool.
You can buy a cheap tool, use it a few times a year to cut a few pieces
of wood, drill a few holes or drive a few screws, and it will probably
last as long as the most expensive tool.
My Ryobi 18v cordless is a few years old, and if I add up all the times
it was actually running, it would probably only add up to a couple of
hours. I probably pick it up no more than 10 or 12 times a year and use
it for a couple of minutes of actual running time. If you are using a
drill/driver for wood, it probably takes less than 5 seconds of running
time to drill a hole or drive a screw.
The biggest continuous job I did with my Ryobi drill was installing a
vinyl picket fence on 3 sides around my inground pool two years ago. The
fence consisted of 14 - 8' sections, screwed between 4x4 PT posts, and
included 2x3 studs that I slid into the hollow plastic fence rails for
added strength. Each 8' section required 4 hangers with 6 screws for
each hanger (2 to hold the hanger to the 4x4 post and 2 screws on either
side of the hanger to hold the rail), for a total of 24 screws per
section. Including the hardware for two gates, that's probably around
360 screws. At 5 seconds per screw, that's about 1800 seconds, or 30
minutes of actual running time ( I did have to replace the battery at
least a couple of times).




BTW, why would you take the Ryobi every time, if you had a choice
between a DeWalt and a Ryobi? I think I'm missing something.

Finally, I want to thank you, and every one else, for your thoughtful
comments.

chillermfg wrote:

When
you step up again and decide to start your own handyman company and build
decks and sheds for "others" then you need to get into a more "professional
series" piece of equipment. The DeWalt cordless products fit that
description.

I have a lot of yellow tools myself, and I do like them. But they're
not all by themselves at the top of the heap, as you imply.


Next step down Craftsman Professional, Bosch High End. Then on
Down to the Skill, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Craftsman, Rigid, Porter Cable.

Putting Milwaukee, Porter Cable, and Ridgid in the same category with
Skil and Ryobi? If you're a troll, call me gullible. If you're
serious, that's ridiculous.

[...]
--
Bo Williams -
http://hiwaay.net/~williams/

Evidently you don't use the Milwaukee, Porter Cable, Skil or Ryobi Cordless
equipment. When we think of corded tools, the class changes significantly.
Like the Dewalt. Their corded stuff leaves a lot of room for improvement,
but their cordless is pretty damn good. The Milwaukee cordless, well...let's
just say I would by the Skill or Ryobi long before another Milwaukee comes
near my toolbox. The Porter Cable was pretty decent although the battery
life was short. Not just run time, but life span in general. And no I wasn't
burning in memory by short charging or half charging. I still have my first
cordless drill at home. A 12 V Dewalt that I bought back in spring of 97.
Except for having to finally replace the 2 batteries, the drill still works
without a hitch. 3/8" keyless chuck. I can still turn a 3/8" Black and
Decker corded drill backwards with it. Another feature of the DW that I like
(some others feature it too) is the auto brake. Since then I have owned a
B&D, Milwaukee and an 18V Professional Series Craftsman. I was reluctant to
buy the Craftsman as I have the used the regular series numerous times and
wasn't really impressed. The professional series was pretty OK and managed
to build a 12 x 20 deck on 4 charges. Keep in mind that was over 20# of 3"
deck screws + countersink and pilot holes. As far as the my Milwaukee, it
was good for light stuff and tinkering. Could not handle the rigors of
drilling concrete or automobile firewalls. No it was not a hammerdrill, but
my DeWalt did it and my Craftsman does it now.
ReRe

"Bo Williams" wrote in message
...
chillermfg wrote:

When
you step up again and decide to start your own handyman company and build
decks and sheds for "others" then you need to get into a more
"professional
series" piece of equipment. The DeWalt cordless products fit that
description.

I have a lot of yellow tools myself, and I do like them. But they're
not all by themselves at the top of the heap, as you imply.


Next step down Craftsman Professional, Bosch High End. Then on
Down to the Skill, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Craftsman, Rigid, Porter Cable.

Putting Milwaukee, Porter Cable, and Ridgid in the same category with
Skil and Ryobi? If you're a troll, call me gullible. If you're
serious, that's ridiculous.

[...]
--
Bo Williams -
http://hiwaay.net/~williams/

On a more basic note, I found my cordless 14.4 Craftsman drill to work
well, but the batteries were dead within a few years, and replacements were
almost as expensive as a new drill. In retrospect the corded option was
better for me:
Always ready, never lacking power or charge, and no big bill a year later
for new batteries. Unless you use your cordless equipment regularly, the
batteries die long before the tool dies. ( I did remember to discharge
completely to try and avoid 'memory'). Be sure to check out how much the
replacement batteries cost, as I made a big mistake on Craftsman, with their
overpriced batteries. My corded drills still work fine, and my crapsman
cordless sits gathering dust.

Dave
"chillermfg" wrote in message
news:Mlagd.539634$8_6.389391@attbi_s04...
Evidently you don't use the Milwaukee, Porter Cable, Skil or Ryobi
Cordless
equipment. When we think of corded tools, the class changes significantly.
Like the Dewalt. Their corded stuff leaves a lot of room for improvement,
but their cordless is pretty damn good. The Milwaukee cordless,
well...let's
just say I would by the Skill or Ryobi long before another Milwaukee comes
near my toolbox. The Porter Cable was pretty decent although the battery
life was short. Not just run time, but life span in general. And no I
wasn't
burning in memory by short charging or half charging. I still have my
first
cordless drill at home. A 12 V Dewalt that I bought back in spring of 97.
Except for having to finally replace the 2 batteries, the drill still
works
without a hitch. 3/8" keyless chuck. I can still turn a 3/8" Black and
Decker corded drill backwards with it. Another feature of the DW that I
like
(some others feature it too) is the auto brake. Since then I have owned a
B&D, Milwaukee and an 18V Professional Series Craftsman. I was reluctant
to
buy the Craftsman as I have the used the regular series numerous times and
wasn't really impressed. The professional series was pretty OK and managed
to build a 12 x 20 deck on 4 charges. Keep in mind that was over 20# of 3"
deck screws + countersink and pilot holes. As far as the my Milwaukee, it
was good for light stuff and tinkering. Could not handle the rigors of
drilling concrete or automobile firewalls. No it was not a hammerdrill,
but
my DeWalt did it and my Craftsman does it now.
ReRe

"Bo Williams" wrote in message
...
chillermfg wrote:

When
you step up again and decide to start your own handyman company and build
decks and sheds for "others" then you need to get into a more
"professional
series" piece of equipment. The DeWalt cordless products fit that
description.

I have a lot of yellow tools myself, and I do like them. But they're
not all by themselves at the top of the heap, as you imply.


Next step down Craftsman Professional, Bosch High End. Then on
Down to the Skill, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Craftsman, Rigid, Porter Cable.

Putting Milwaukee, Porter Cable, and Ridgid in the same category with
Skil and Ryobi? If you're a troll, call me gullible. If you're
serious, that's ridiculous.

[...]
--
Bo Williams -
http://hiwaay.net/~williams/

On 28 Oct 2004 12:59:47 GMT, (GeoCrunch21) wrote:

Subject: Tool advice
From: "Harry"
Date: 10/26/2004 3:15 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: rs.com

"Trent©" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:40:32 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Some of them need replacing (triggers broken, etc.) I actually took a
look
at B&D again, but was told that they are no longer considered a "good"
brand, just like Skill, Ryobi, etc. Makita seems to be a brand many are
quck to recommend. You are the second person to mention pneumatic tools.
I'll have to take a look at them.

Take yer newmatic drill to the top of a 20' ladder one time...by
yourself. Get back to us!

Skil has a nice, cordless package now. Its an 18v. cordless circular
saw (7 1/4 blade!!), recip saw, drill, and a battery, I think...for
just under $200. I wish I had seen it before I just bought my new
drill.

Also, consider Harbor Freight. I just bought an 18v. 1/2" 2 speed
gear box drill there...hammer drill!!...for under $30. Couldn't be
more pleased. Juice tester light on the battery...keyless chuck...
handy, strong magnet on the drill...bit holder there,
too...level...twist out of the way battery. Extra battery was $8.95.
A charge lasts me about a month.

HF has some good quality stuff.

I took a look at Harbor Freight, and I saw that they carry brand names at
comparable prices. I also saw that they carry some cheap brands that I have
never heard of before (Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc.) I wonder how
those compare to Ryobi, Skill and other "generic" brands.



Chicago Electrical is great. I have a couple of their tools, and they do as
good a job as my Makita's, plus I don't have to worry about dammaging them or
losing them, because I can replace them very easily. I do, however, get the
rolling of the eyes when friends see me using a very non-distinct loking tool,
while their DeWalt driver is clearly marked "DeWalt". I don't care smile.
DeWalt is the old Black&Decker commercial line. Good stuff. So was
the Black&Decker commercial line. The Black&Decker comsumer line
lost it's good name due to being associated with irons, coffee pots,
etc. Black&Decker bought out DeWalt for the name. DeWalt used to
make the best radial arm saw, if you find an old one, you probably
ought to buy it. I have a Black&Decker commercial right-angle drill
thats great, just like the DeWalt except it's not yellow. Ridgid is
the old Craftsman tool line. Not much to do with Ridge Tool Co., its
actually made by Emerson, the same people who make Insinkerator,
except that they bought the company to have a recognized name. Ridge
still makes very good plumbing equipment, the power tools are
generally questionable, just as the Craftsman tools were. I wouldn't
buy anything from Sears that had a motor on it. Just MHO. Sears
sells good underwear and socks, though.

Dan

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:30:24 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

I'm so confused :-(

That's because yer havin' fun...and yer just not used to it!! lol

I mean I understand the logic, and I understand that
part of this is personal preference, and all that, but from an "amateur
handyman's" stand point, let's see. If I needed a cordless drill to have
around for the ocasional use, an inexpensive 14.4 V Chicago Electric would
be fine.

Probably.

However, if later on I wanted to, let's say, finish my basement,
then I'd need to go out and buy a more expensive model. Is that right?

Not necessarily. You use what you've got...then replace or upgrade
when necessary. But you ALSO try to plan ahead...and put some of your
personal logic into your purchase.

For instance...

If you know yer gonna finish yer basement soon, you don't buy a 9.6
drill...if you plan on usin' that drill for the basement job, too.
You may want to get something heftier...and maybe hammer drill
incorporated.

Oh...and here's where the prejudice part comes in...

I just bought a 1/2" 2-gear speed, VSR, hammer drill 18v. I think I
paid $26.99...or $29...I forget. What's the first thing you think off
when you hear that price?...with those features? See?!! lol

With the way current technology is changin', don't spend too much
money on something that you think is gonna last forever. The FEATURES
won't last forever! How many contractors do you see usin' a drill on
the job that has a keyed chuck?

But...again as I think I hinted at before...I wouldn't buy a tool that
is too expensive and overkill for the job at hand. If I buy a drill
that costs hundreds of dollars and will generate $100,000 in
sales...its money well spent.

Or
unless I use the cordless drill on a daily basis, to make a living, then a
cheaper model would be O.K., even if I decide to do some bigger projects
around the house?

Many of the 'cheap' tools have gained in popularity because they were
kept around in case the 'name brand' tool failed. And failed they
did. They ALL do eventually...I don't care WHAT the quality is.

So the 'cheap' tool got used while the good one was being repaired.
Low and behold...the cheap tool was still working when the good one
came back. So they kept on usin' the cheap tool.

Like someone else said in this thread, it'd be good if someone had
experience in long term use of many different models, so they could give a
comparative opinion. But, that is not a very common thing, so...

Common sense...and pocket book...will prevail in most cases. When I
bought my first cordless drill, I didn't realize how important a
2-speed gear box is. So now, that's the first thing that I look for.

BTW, why would you take the Ryobi every time, if you had a choice between a
DeWalt and a Ryobi? I think I'm missing something.

Cost per billable hour. Or cost per home project(s) hour.

If I'm gonna use a drill for 2 hours total in 10 years, most drills
will last for 2 hours of total run time. So the cheaper tool is the
better purchase.

Finally, I want to thank you, and every one else, for your thoughtful
comments.

Yer welcome. There's been a lot of good feedback for you here.

Good luck.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

"GeoCrunch21" wrote in message
...
Subject: Tool advice
From: "Harry"
Date: 10/26/2004 3:15 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: rs.com

"Trent©" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:40:32 -0400, "Harry"
wrote:

Some of them need replacing (triggers broken, etc.) I actually took a
look
at B&D again, but was told that they are no longer considered a "good"
brand, just like Skill, Ryobi, etc. Makita seems to be a brand many are
quck to recommend. You are the second person to mention pneumatic
tools.
I'll have to take a look at them.

Take yer newmatic drill to the top of a 20' ladder one time...by
yourself. Get back to us!

Skil has a nice, cordless package now. Its an 18v. cordless circular
saw (7 1/4 blade!!), recip saw, drill, and a battery, I think...for
just under $200. I wish I had seen it before I just bought my new
drill.

Also, consider Harbor Freight. I just bought an 18v. 1/2" 2 speed
gear box drill there...hammer drill!!...for under $30. Couldn't be
more pleased. Juice tester light on the battery...keyless chuck...
handy, strong magnet on the drill...bit holder there,
too...level...twist out of the way battery. Extra battery was $8.95.
A charge lasts me about a month.

HF has some good quality stuff.

I took a look at Harbor Freight, and I saw that they carry brand names at
comparable prices. I also saw that they carry some cheap brands that I
have
never heard of before (Chicago Electric, Drill Master, etc.) I wonder how
those compare to Ryobi, Skill and other "generic" brands.



Chicago Electrical is great. I have a couple of their tools, and they do
as
good a job as my Makita's, plus I don't have to worry about dammaging them
or
losing them, because I can replace them very easily. I do, however, get
the
rolling of the eyes when friends see me using a very non-distinct loking
tool,
while their DeWalt driver is clearly marked "DeWalt". I don't care
smile.

The adage "You get what you pay for" couldn't be any more suitable than in
this case!!