In article ,
Some whining **** posting as Ian St. John mournfully bleated:

Some whinging asshole calling himeself "Bob" twittered:

"claudel" wrote in message
...


Actually, it is long overdue. Perhaps they're waiting till after
the pending election victory.

Victory????

From dictionary.com.

vic·to·r
n. pl. vic·to·ries
1. Defeat of an enemy or opponent.

2. Success in a struggle against difficulties or an obstacle.

3. The state of having triumphed.


a _whole_ bunch of boring, whining crap deleted

As some lefturd once said:

"By Any Means Necessary"

Claude

"Ian St. John" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:
"claudel" wrote in message
...


Actually, it is long overdue. Perhaps they're waiting till after
the pending election victory.

Victory????

In a manner of speaking. Depends on whether you expect elections to be
fair
and accurate or just a means of 'legiimizing' a dictatorship.

First, you force everyone to adopt bad technology under deadlines to make
sure it comes in before the election..
http://www.fec.gov/hava/hava.htm

Note: Make sure that it is developed by loyal republican companies and
that
the election oversight commitees have NO rights to view ( proprietary )
code
that they then 'certify'. And make sure that local 'audits' at the polling
station will not show up a discrepancy.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/07/268819.shtml

And
http://www.alternet.org/election04/20052/
"Danciu sued for access to the Sequoia source code to see if it was
flawed.
He was told that the source code was considered a trade secret under
Florida
law, and that even LePore and her staff ( the election officials) were
*not
authorised to examine it*, on pain of criminal prosecution. "

Make sure that no state can institute a paper trail to ensure a post
election check..
couldn't find my reference to this but it is true

And make sure that you cannot have an avalance of paper 'advance votes' by
people that know damn well that the button they push may not actually
register a vote for the candidate they choose.

http://www.independent-media.tv/item...ory_desc=Under
%20Reported

Then you can rig the election to give yourself a victory.
http://www.alternet.org/story/16474
The Theft of Your Vote Is Just a Chip Away


Rigging elections, by the way, is hardly even a 'conspiracy theory' in the
U.S. where it has a LONG tradition.

See http://wheresthepaper.org/ below for a nice illustration of the new
RepubliCON election strategy.. but you may have to wait till late at night
because either the Republicons are blocking it or it is way overloaded
with
people discovering for themselves how easy it is to rig an election that
is
entirely electronic and with no backup record to ensure against tampering.
However, the alternet reference should also illustrate the issue.

also
http://avirubin.com/vote.pdf
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0312/S00156.htm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/access-diebold.htm#votes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...entId=A42085-2
003Aug10&notFound=true

About 30% of the voters will be using video terminals and have no
record of who they really voted for. I mean Diebolt manufactures ATM
machines and how hard is it to get a receipt from your atm??? And Bush
pushed the "Help America Vote Act" which *mandates" video voting by 2008
and
pays for the machines ( made by their republican buddies). He wasn't going
to chance obvious vote tampering. High tech vote tampering is the way to
go.. Then they went back and mandated video voting by 2004 elections!
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.2239: Sec 5a..

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/sil...ey/6791541.htm
Only California has really confronted the issue.
http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/ks_dr...rs/decert1.pdf


Voter tampering doesn't even have to be by corrupt officials!
http://cryptome.org/hack-vote.htm "They were disturbingly successful. It
was
an "easy matter," they reported, to reprogram the access cards used by
voters and vote multiple times. They were able to attach a keyboard to a
voting terminal and change its vote count. And by exploiting a software
flaw
and using a modem, they were able to change votes from a remote location."
And note that most video terminals are now equipped with modems because of
'errors' in election officials unable to bring in the electronic recording
chip that didn't require online access. The fraud is easier to detect if
you
need to attach a keyboard to the machine itself.

Note that the effort to make the vote 'uncountable' by the republicans is
another clue. It ensures that the output of the code *proprietary to and
only examined by the three republican companies that make the voting
machines* will be the 'last word' not matter how egregious the tampering.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...te%3DcontentMo
dules/printstory.jsp
and hand in hand with this legislation, the voting machine manufacturers (
all republican owned) plan to harass any state that tries to provide a
paper
trail.
http://www.coastalpost.com/04/01/01a.htm

And how this affects the voting can be easily demonstrated..
http://wheresthepaper.org/
Can you elect John Doe?


And other games can be played such as offering alternative 'paper ballots'
and then invalidating the votes by claiming error..
http://news.bostonherald.com/nationa...rticleid=28812

But the most telling point will be that, rather than eliminating fraud and
vote tampering, the video voting terminals will undoubtably increase both
the conflicts and the inabilty to resolve them.

"1/13/04 Sun Sentinel, FL: the consequences of no paper audit trail -
"Bogdanoff's closest competitor, Lauderdale-by-the-Sea Mayor Oliver
Parker,
told Broward elections officials that the results of the election wouldn't
be legal until they counted all the undervotes by hand. And since machine
ballots can't be counted by hand, Parker said the voting machines in South
Florida are illegal. Broward County Canvassing Board Attorney Ed Dion
dismissed the claim, saying the voting machines had been approved by state
officials. A letter Monday from the office of state Secretary Glenda Hood,
Florida's top election official, left the decision of how to perform the
manual recount up to the local officials. The letter said state law was
unclear on how to resolve the Broward dilemma, adding that state recount
rules were currently being revised. Parker conceded after Broward's
canvassing board chose to manually recount only the five invalid paper
ballots cast by absentee -- and not revisit machine-cast ballots."

Well, we all know Teamp Chimpy never "won" the 2000 election
other than the 5-4 vote on the Supreme Court, which brings up
another question - why does anyone call Bush "President Bush"?
He's not the frickin' president! He never won the election!
The majority of voters voted for Gore. Yeah, I know how
the electorial college works, but that did not come into play
any more than the popular vote. The chimp was appointed.
And now it looks like they're gonna cheat him in there again.
Sheeks, what a perverse tragedy and failure of democracy.
If there were only some other planet to go to to get away
from fascist liars and cheaters, I'd be in heaven.

KABONG!~!~!~

"If fascism came to America it would be on a
program of Americanism."
~Huey P. Long






Bob

claudel wrote:
In article ,
Some whining **** posting as Ian St. John
mournfully bleated:

Some whinging asshole calling himeself "Bob" twittered:

"claudel" wrote in message
...


Actually, it is long overdue. Perhaps they're waiting till after
the pending election victory.

Victory????

From dictionary.com.

vic·to·r
n. pl. vic·to·ries
1. Defeat of an enemy or opponent.

2. Success in a struggle against difficulties or an obstacle.

You presume a 'victory' over reality, truth, and honor? I see.


3. The state of having triumphed.

Triump over adversity is a good thing. Triump over democracy is not.

a _whole_ bunch of boring, whining crap deleted

I am merely stating the facts. They offer few other conclusions which you
seem to recognise which is why you avoid trying to rebut it. As to boredom,
that it the natural state of the unexamined mind such as your own.


As some lefturd once said:

This mean that you are a rightard? I guess this is the closest you come to a
rational discussion on the matter.


"By Any Means Necessary"

That is the state of 'democracy' in the U.S. all right. We thought that the
worst happened in 2000. Now they will eclipse that without even buying
votes, intimidating voters, screwing up the voter lists, voting the
graveyard, etc. Now it can be done conveniently by the push of a button.

Thanks for confirming the state of decay in the founding principles.


Claude

Elvis Kabong wrote:
"Ian St. John" wrote in message
snip

Well, we all know Teamp Chimpy never "won" the 2000 election
other than the 5-4 vote on the Supreme Court, which brings up
another question - why does anyone call Bush "President Bush"?
He's not the frickin' president! He never won the election!

Certainly, but you are working under the misapprehension that the U.S. is a
democracy. Nothing in the U.S. election laws makes the popular vote binding.
It is primarily a function of the fifty states (thus the electoral college
system), which may or may not recognise the dominant vote of their own state
citizens.

The majority of voters voted for Gore. Yeah, I know how
the electorial college works, but that did not come into play
any more than the popular vote. The chimp was appointed.

Certainly. One of the problems is that he is trying to be a 'war president'
in order to gain legitimacy that the (s)election did not give him.

And now it looks like they're gonna cheat him in there again.
Sheeks, what a perverse tragedy and failure of democracy.

The corporations have taken control through the rightwing neocons and the
rise of fascism. They have no real interest in nations, only power. Economic
power has taken over from the old territorial imperatives..

If there were only some other planet to go to to get away
from fascist liars and cheaters, I'd be in heaven.

Sweden?


KABONG!~!~!~

"If fascism came to America it would be on a
program of Americanism."
~Huey P. Long






Bob

In article ,
Some meddling foreign dweeb, posing as Ian St. John
cried the blues into too many newsgroups:

claudel wrote:
In article ,
Some whining **** posting as Ian St. John
mournfully bleated:

Some whinging asshole calling himeself "Bob" twittered:

"claudel" wrote in message
...


Actually, it is long overdue. Perhaps they're waiting till after
the pending election victory.

Victory????

From dictionary.com.

vic·to·r
n. pl. vic·to·ries
1. Defeat of an enemy or opponent.

2. Success in a struggle against difficulties or an obstacle.

You presume a 'victory' over reality, truth, and honor? I see.

You presume much. I provided a link to a dictionary.



3. The state of having triumphed.

Triump over adversity is a good thing. Triump over democracy is not.

Triump?


a _whole_ bunch of boring, whining crap deleted

I am merely stating the facts. They offer few other conclusions which you
seem to recognise which is why you avoid trying to rebut it. As to boredom,
that it the natural state of the unexamined mind such as your own.


Facts?

Even though you are not American, this fits...

http://tinyurl.com/4mmjl


As some lefturd once said:

This mean that you are a rightard? I guess this is the closest you come to a
rational discussion on the matter.


"By Any Means Necessary"

That is the state of 'democracy' in the U.S. all right. We thought that the
worst happened in 2000. Now they will eclipse that without even buying
votes, intimidating voters, screwing up the voter lists, voting the
graveyard, etc. Now it can be done conveniently by the push of a button.

"The Ends Justify the Means..."
some other lefturd.


Thanks for confirming the state of decay in the founding principles.

Ummmm, whose founding principles?


Claude

claudel wrote:
In article ,

Some meddling foreign dweeb, posing as Ian St. John
cried the blues into too many newsgroups:

Got anything meaningful to say?


claudel wrote:
In article ,
Some whining **** posting as Ian St. John
mournfully bleated:

Some whinging asshole calling himeself "Bob" twittered:

"claudel" wrote in message
...


Actually, it is long overdue. Perhaps they're waiting till after
the pending election victory.

Victory????

From dictionary.com.

vic·to·r
n. pl. vic·to·ries
1. Defeat of an enemy or opponent.

2. Success in a struggle against difficulties or an obstacle.

You presume a 'victory' over reality, truth, and honor? I see.

You presume much. I provided a link to a dictionary.

And showed that you don't understand real victories.




3. The state of having triumphed.

Triump over adversity is a good thing. Triump over democracy is not.

Triump?

Well, not yet, and maybe not ever. Kerry has the momentum.
http://www.econ.umn.edu/~amoro/Research/presprobs.html

and it has been building day by day. For Bush to pull an end run would be a
stretch though I expect he will try either delaying the election with
another 'terrorism alert' or rigging the election.




a _whole_ bunch of boring, whining crap deleted

I am merely stating the facts. They offer few other conclusions
which you seem to recognise which is why you avoid trying to rebut
it. As to boredom, that it the natural state of the unexamined mind
such as your own.


Facts?

Even though you are not American, this fits...

http://tinyurl.com/4mmjl

Whatever. Obviously you have no serious rebuttal.



As some lefturd once said:

This mean that you are a rightard? I guess this is the closest you
come to a rational discussion on the matter.


"By Any Means Necessary"

That is the state of 'democracy' in the U.S. all right. We thought
that the worst happened in 2000. Now they will eclipse that without
even buying votes, intimidating voters, screwing up the voter lists,
voting the graveyard, etc. Now it can be done conveniently by the
push of a button.

"The Ends Justify the Means..."
some other lefturd.


Thanks for confirming the state of decay in the founding principles.

Ummmm, whose founding principles?

You skipped civics classes?



Claude

The majority of voters voted for Gore. Yeah, I know how
the electorial college works, but that did not come into play
any more than the popular vote. The chimp was appointed.

Didn't Clinton only get something like 43% of the popular vote?

In article ,
Yet another net.loon posing as Ian St. John snivelled:

claudel wrote:
In article ,

Some meddling foreign dweeb, posing as Ian St. John
cried the blues into too many newsgroups:

Got anything meaningful to say?

Sure. I'm impressed with you left-wing cretinoids getting a slight
verification of your miserable and useless existence by crossposting
sophomoric and simplistic political drivel into irrelevant newsgroups
frequented by disinterested persons. That's something that has never
occurred before.


claudel wrote:
In article ,
Some whining **** posting as Ian St. John
mournfully bleated:

Some whinging asshole calling himeself "Bob" twittered:

"claudel" wrote in message
...


Actually, it is long overdue. Perhaps they're waiting till after
the pending election victory.

Victory????

From dictionary.com.

vic·to·r
n. pl. vic·to·ries
1. Defeat of an enemy or opponent.

2. Success in a struggle against difficulties or an obstacle.

You presume a 'victory' over reality, truth, and honor? I see.

You presume much. I provided a link to a dictionary.

And showed that you don't understand real victories.

Whatever you say, junior.





3. The state of having triumphed.

Triump over adversity is a good thing. Triump over democracy is not.

Triump?

Well, not yet, and maybe not ever. Kerry has the momentum.
http://www.econ.umn.edu/~amoro/Research/presprobs.html

and it has been building day by day. For Bush to pull an end run would be a
stretch though I expect he will try either delaying the election with
another 'terrorism alert' or rigging the election.


That will probably not be needed, but

"The Ends Justify the Means..."

and

"By Any Means Necessary"



a _whole_ bunch of boring, whining crap deleted

I am merely stating the facts. They offer few other conclusions
which you seem to recognise which is why you avoid trying to rebut
it. As to boredom, that it the natural state of the unexamined mind
such as your own.


Facts?

Even though you are not American, this fits...

http://tinyurl.com/4mmjl

Whatever. Obviously you have no serious rebuttal.

To what?



Thanks for confirming the state of decay in the founding principles.

Ummmm, whose founding principles?

You skipped civics classes?

I skipped a lot of classes. I was never much on educration.

Too many whining lefturds with a lifetime death grip on the public teat.

I was just mildly curious as to exactly whose "founding principles"
you have been crying about.


Claude

"mark" wrote in message
...
Didn't Clinton only get something like 43% of the popular vote?

Yes. It's called a "plurality", but it differs from what happened in 2000.

--
Kevin
-=#=-
www.freerepublic.com

wrote:
If Bush had his way most of us would own homes made of cardboard.

What? You think that real wood grows on trees.. ?? ;-)

Not that is has to do with Bush so much as the Right wing agenda, and
corporations which have taken fascism "multinational' and 'above' local
national level government'. The real result is an increasing level of income
disparity. The value of the 'idle class' wastrels are going up while the
'working poor' are becoming little more than captive slaves. I mean that
this is the 'ultimate purpose' of capitalism, isn't it?? To increase the
wealth of the capitalists? Do you think they are driven by altruism and
caring for those 'left behind'?

On 17 Oct 2004 10:22:46 -0700, in misc.consumers.house
(Tamara) wrote:

He'd be particularly talented behind the waffle iron!!

"davefr" wrote in message
m...
He'd be particularly talented behind the waffle iron!!

Who? Duh-bya?