In the process of putting up our cedar fence which we are staining with
Sikkens Cetol SRD in Teak. Our nice weather for staining is running out
really fast around here so I am staining like a maniac today.

The fence is 17 cedar 1x6's per 8 ft section, with 2 2x4's on edge at
the back (one at top, one near bottom). There is a cedar 2x4 laying flat
on top of the on edge 2x4 at the top. On the front of the fence there
will be a 1x4 cedar trim piece right underneath the 2x4 that is laying
flat, and a 1x6 cedar trim piece at the bottom. Since the space between
our boards is minimal, and thus the chance of seeing any greyed cedar is
slim, and that the "uglier" (although neither side of this fence is
ugly) side of the fence will be facing back alley and neighbours, is it
necessary to stain the backside of these trim boards?

Not staining them would save me alot of time not having to wait for that
side to dry before we put them up. We could just put up the trim and I
could stain the fronts and edges right up on the fence.

If there is an advantage to staining the backsides, I definately will.
If it is a waste of my time, then I'd rather not. Any opinions?

Thanks!

blue wrote:

In the process of putting up our cedar fence which we are staining
with Sikkens Cetol SRD in Teak. Our nice weather for staining is
running out really fast around here so I am staining like a maniac today.

The fence is 17 cedar 1x6's per 8 ft section, with 2 2x4's on edge at
the back (one at top, one near bottom). There is a cedar 2x4 laying
flat on top of the on edge 2x4 at the top. On the front of the fence
there will be a 1x4 cedar trim piece right underneath the 2x4 that is
laying flat, and a 1x6 cedar trim piece at the bottom. Since the space
between our boards is minimal, and thus the chance of seeing any
greyed cedar is slim, and that the "uglier" (although neither side of
this fence is ugly) side of the fence will be facing back alley and
neighbours, is it necessary to stain the backside of these trim boards?

Since the 'ugly' side is usually supposed to face the fence owner's
property, you would have to stain it
Facing the ugly side to your property may only be a courtesy in your
area, but it could be local code. You might want to check on that.
It is also important if your fence has a horizontal rail in the middle
of the pickets between posts. You don't want to give burglars, or other
neer-do-wells, a good foothold to climb the fence.


Not staining them would save me alot of time not having to wait for
that side to dry before we put them up. We could just put up the trim
and I could stain the fronts and edges right up on the fence.

If there is an advantage to staining the backsides, I definately will.
If it is a waste of my time, then I'd rather not. Any opinions?

Thanks!

willshak wrote:
blue wrote:
snip
The fence is 17 cedar 1x6's per 8 ft section, with 2 2x4's on edge at
the back (one at top, one near bottom). There is a cedar 2x4 laying
flat on top of the on edge 2x4 at the top. On the front of the fence
there will be a 1x4 cedar trim piece right underneath the 2x4 that is
laying flat, and a 1x6 cedar trim piece at the bottom. Since the space
between our boards is minimal, and thus the chance of seeing any
greyed cedar is slim, and that the "uglier" (although neither side of
this fence is ugly) side of the fence will be facing back alley and
neighbours, is it necessary to stain the backside of these trim boards?


Since the 'ugly' side is usually supposed to face the fence owner's
property, you would have to stain it
Facing the ugly side to your property may only be a courtesy in your
area, but it could be local code. You might want to check on that.

No code here for which side of fence faces where. The owner next door
lives in a different province and has rented out the house for the last
10 years rents. The previous fence was rotten and falling over (and the
neighbour never payed for any of it). We asked him if he would like to
share the cost of the new fence and we would do all the labour, he
refused saying he doesn't care if there is a fence or not since he is
just renting the place out. Thus, ugly side goes to them. Well and also
because he had a shed a foot and a half on our property on the side
where there is 100' of fence, we asked politely for him to move it since
we didn't want to give up 150' of property to him by placing the fence
1.5' onto our property. We offered to help move it, gave him several
months notice, he said he didn't want to put any effort in since he just
rented out the house. We ended spending a day of our time getting the
she moved nicely onto his property when we could have spent that time
building our fence.

Other neighbour is super nice guy, he offered to pay for half of the
fence on his side without us even asking but we told him not to worry
since there is less than 30' of fence between our houses. That side we
will be alternating sections, ugly side/good side.

Also, the fence design we made looks identical on either side with the
exception that one side has the rough side of the cedar fence boards and
you see 2x4's for trim instead of a 1x6 and 1x4. We intentionally
designed it this way so that if we had to alternate ugly side/good side
on both side, it would still look decent for us.

A code saying if you pay for an entire fence and put in all the labour,
yet have to have the good side to your neighbour seems absurd to me.
What would prompt a neighbour to ever pay for half? And what would you
do when both people pay for the fence?

It is also important if your fence has a horizontal rail in the middle
of the pickets between posts. You don't want to give burglars, or other
neer-do-wells, a good foothold to climb the fence.

It doesn't.

Any advice on whether the back side of trim needs to be stained for the
benefit of the cedar?

Not staining them would save me alot of time not having to wait for
that side to dry before we put them up. We could just put up the trim
and I could stain the fronts and edges right up on the fence.

If there is an advantage to staining the backsides, I definately will.
If it is a waste of my time, then I'd rather not. Any opinions?

willshak wrote:
blue wrote:
snip
The fence is 17 cedar 1x6's per 8 ft section, with 2 2x4's on edge at
the back (one at top, one near bottom). There is a cedar 2x4 laying
flat on top of the on edge 2x4 at the top. On the front of the fence
there will be a 1x4 cedar trim piece right underneath the 2x4 that is
laying flat, and a 1x6 cedar trim piece at the bottom. Since the space
between our boards is minimal, and thus the chance of seeing any
greyed cedar is slim, and that the "uglier" (although neither side of
this fence is ugly) side of the fence will be facing back alley and
neighbours, is it necessary to stain the backside of these trim boards?


Since the 'ugly' side is usually supposed to face the fence owner's
property, you would have to stain it
Facing the ugly side to your property may only be a courtesy in your
area, but it could be local code. You might want to check on that.

I do not mean the fence boards, we alreay stained those on both sides. I
mean the 1x6 and 1x4 trim pieces where the backside will be horizontally
against 17 1x6 cedar boards. On the "ugly" side of the fence there is 2
2x4's whereas on our side, there is the 1x4 and 1x6 trim board instead
(fence boards are between the 2x4's and the trim). There is no way
anyone would ever see the unstained part of the board, it is physically
impossible.

I am only concerned about the staining for the good of the cedar. The
fence was designed to look identical on both sides, with the exception
of the bad side of the fence boards facing one side. No code in our area
saying which side of fence boards need to face where and our neighbour
rents the house out and said he doesn't want to pay for any part of the
fence since he rents and doesn't care if his tenants have a fence or not.

willshak wrote:
blue wrote:

In the process of putting up our cedar fence which we are staining
with Sikkens Cetol SRD in Teak. Our nice weather for staining is
running out really fast around here so I am staining like a maniac today.

The fence is 17 cedar 1x6's per 8 ft section, with 2 2x4's on edge at
the back (one at top, one near bottom). There is a cedar 2x4 laying
flat on top of the on edge 2x4 at the top. On the front of the fence
there will be a 1x4 cedar trim piece right underneath the 2x4 that is
laying flat, and a 1x6 cedar trim piece at the bottom. Since the space
between our boards is minimal, and thus the chance of seeing any
greyed cedar is slim, and that the "uglier" (although neither side of
this fence is ugly) side of the fence will be facing back alley and
neighbours, is it necessary to stain the backside of these trim boards?


Since the 'ugly' side is usually supposed to face the fence owner's
property, you would have to stain it
Facing the ugly side to your property may only be a courtesy in your
area, but it could be local code. You might want to check on that.
I do not mean the fence boards, we alreay stained those on both sides. I
mean the 1x6 and 1x4 trim pieces where the backside will be horizontally
against 17 1x6 cedar boards. On the "ugly" side of the fence there is 2
2x4's whereas on our side, there is the 1x4 and 1x6 trim board instead
(fence boards are between the 2x4's and the trim). There is no way
anyone would ever see the unstained part of the board, it is physically
impossible.

I am only concerned about the staining for the good of the cedar. The
fence was designed to look identical on both sides, with the exception
of the bad side of the fence boards facing one side. From either side,
it is a good looking fence. No code in our area saying which side of
fence boards need to face where and our the owner of the house next door
rents the house out and said he doesn't want to pay for any part of the
fence since he rents the house out, plans to for the rest of his life
and doesn't care if his tenants have a fence or not.

It is also important if your fence has a horizontal rail in the middle
of the pickets between posts. You don't want to give burglars, or other
neer-do-wells, a good foothold to climb the fence.

It doesn't.


Not staining them would save me alot of time not having to wait for
that side to dry before we put them up. We could just put up the trim
and I could stain the fronts and edges right up on the fence.

If there is an advantage to staining the backsides, I definately will.
If it is a waste of my time, then I'd rather not. Any opinions?

Thanks!

In theory, all six sides of a board used for fencing should be
"stained". In practice, sealing the exposed surfaces with something like
Sikkens will be fine. You won't notice the difference in aging of the wood
in your design. Remember, you are already using a wood appropriate for
outside use. As long as you can live with the aesthetics, you should be
fine.

Good Luck.

"blue" wrote in message
news:jXD7d.569940$M95.429640@pd7tw1no...
In the process of putting up our cedar fence which we are staining with
Sikkens Cetol SRD in Teak. Our nice weather for staining is running out
really fast around here so I am staining like a maniac today.

The fence is 17 cedar 1x6's per 8 ft section, with 2 2x4's on edge at
the back (one at top, one near bottom). There is a cedar 2x4 laying flat
on top of the on edge 2x4 at the top. On the front of the fence there
will be a 1x4 cedar trim piece right underneath the 2x4 that is laying
flat, and a 1x6 cedar trim piece at the bottom. Since the space between
our boards is minimal, and thus the chance of seeing any greyed cedar is
slim, and that the "uglier" (although neither side of this fence is
ugly) side of the fence will be facing back alley and neighbours, is it
necessary to stain the backside of these trim boards?

Not staining them would save me alot of time not having to wait for that
side to dry before we put them up. We could just put up the trim and I
could stain the fronts and edges right up on the fence.

If there is an advantage to staining the backsides, I definately will.
If it is a waste of my time, then I'd rather not. Any opinions?

Thanks!

blue wrote:

willshak wrote:

blue wrote:

snip

The fence is 17 cedar 1x6's per 8 ft section, with 2 2x4's on edge
at the back (one at top, one near bottom). There is a cedar 2x4
laying flat on top of the on edge 2x4 at the top. On the front of
the fence there will be a 1x4 cedar trim piece right underneath the
2x4 that is laying flat, and a 1x6 cedar trim piece at the bottom.
Since the space between our boards is minimal, and thus the chance
of seeing any greyed cedar is slim, and that the "uglier" (although
neither side of this fence is ugly) side of the fence will be facing
back alley and neighbours, is it necessary to stain the backside of
these trim boards?



Since the 'ugly' side is usually supposed to face the fence owner's
property, you would have to stain it
Facing the ugly side to your property may only be a courtesy in your
area, but it could be local code. You might want to check on that.


No code here for which side of fence faces where. The owner next door
lives in a different province and has rented out the house for the
last 10 years rents. The previous fence was rotten and falling over
(and the neighbour never payed for any of it). We asked him if he
would like to share the cost of the new fence and we would do all the
labour, he refused saying he doesn't care if there is a fence or not
since he is just renting the place out. Thus, ugly side goes to them.
Well and also because he had a shed a foot and a half on our property
on the side where there is 100' of fence, we asked politely for him to
move it since we didn't want to give up 150' of property to him by
placing the fence 1.5' onto our property. We offered to help move it,
gave him several months notice, he said he didn't want to put any
effort in since he just rented out the house. We ended spending a day
of our time getting the she moved nicely onto his property when we
could have spent that time building our fence.

Other neighbour is super nice guy, he offered to pay for half of the
fence on his side without us even asking but we told him not to worry
since there is less than 30' of fence between our houses. That side we
will be alternating sections, ugly side/good side.

Also, the fence design we made looks identical on either side with the
exception that one side has the rough side of the cedar fence boards
and you see 2x4's for trim instead of a 1x6 and 1x4. We intentionally
designed it this way so that if we had to alternate ugly side/good
side on both side, it would still look decent for us.

A code saying if you pay for an entire fence and put in all the
labour, yet have to have the good side to your neighbour seems absurd
to me. What would prompt a neighbour to ever pay for half? And what
would you do when both people pay for the fence?

That is moot where I live. There would be no reason to share the cost
since a fence cannot be placed directly on a property line. There is a
property line setback for a fence here. When I built my 6' high pool
fence some 17 years ago, the setback was 6 inches from the property line
(determined by survey). A couple of years ago, my neighbor across the
street put a fence up along his property line and the setback at that
time had been extended to 3' from the line.
My 17 year old cedar fence is falling apart and I want to replace the
cedar between the PT posts with new 6' vinyl fencing. I have to check
with my building code enforcement officer to see whether I can retain my
6" grandfathered setback status by retaining most, or moving some, of
the PT posts, or whether there is a percentage of replacement that would
nullify the grandfathered 6" setback and require me to move the whole
fence 3' from the line to come up to code.
Just to give you an example of the above mentioned 'percentage', there
is a code requirement here that if an addition is added to a house and
the sq ft of the addition is greater than the original house, the entire
building, including the original house, has to meet, or be brought up
to, code.
I don't agree with any of it, but that's the law here.


It is also important if your fence has a horizontal rail in the
middle of the pickets between posts. You don't want to give burglars,
or other neer-do-wells, a good foothold to climb the fence.


It doesn't.

Any advice on whether the back side of trim needs to be stained for
the benefit of the cedar?

If I ever put up a cedar, or any untreated wood fence again, I would
seal all surfaces, especially horizontal surfaces where snow and
rainwater lay. It's mostly my rails that are rotting away. I can't even
drive nails into the somewhat solid, but loose, pickets to secure them,
because it's like driving nails into styrofoam rails.


Not staining them would save me alot of time not having to wait for
that side to dry before we put them up. We could just put up the
trim and I could stain the fronts and edges right up on the fence.

If there is an advantage to staining the backsides, I definately
will. If it is a waste of my time, then I'd rather not. Any opinions?

willshak wrote:
snip
That is moot where I live. There would be no reason to share the cost
since a fence cannot be placed directly on a property line. There is a
property line setback for a fence here. When I built my 6' high pool
fence some 17 years ago, the setback was 6 inches from the property line
(determined by survey). A couple of years ago, my neighbor across the
street put a fence up along his property line and the setback at that
time had been extended to 3' from the line.

Wow, that would suck, so potentially 2 neighbours could end up with a 6'
gap between their fences? What a waste of space. But then again, no
arguing over who wants what kind of fence if it's along the property
line. :-)

Since our neighbour isn't sharing our cost, we put our fence about 6" in
on our property, so it is entirely ours. If we put it in any further,
since they never intend to put up a fence we'd essentially be increasing
their property size with out fence.

snip
If I ever put up a cedar, or any untreated wood fence again, I would
seal all surfaces, especially horizontal surfaces where snow and
rainwater lay. It's mostly my rails that are rotting away. I can't even
drive nails into the somewhat solid, but loose, pickets to secure them,
because it's like driving nails into styrofoam rails.

Our 1x4 is hiding beneath a horizontal 2x4, so for anything to get
behind that one is somewhat difficult, but I don't think we'll risk not
staining. I'll stain the backs tomorrow morning, let them dry most of
the day, then stain the front of the trim when we put them up. Thanks
for telling me your cedar fence story, it helped with my decision.

blue wrote:

willshak wrote:
snip

That is moot where I live. There would be no reason to share the cost
since a fence cannot be placed directly on a property line. There is
a property line setback for a fence here. When I built my 6' high
pool fence some 17 years ago, the setback was 6 inches from the
property line (determined by survey). A couple of years ago, my
neighbor across the street put a fence up along his property line and
the setback at that time had been extended to 3' from the line.


Wow, that would suck, so potentially 2 neighbours could end up with a
6' gap between their fences? What a waste of space. But then again, no
arguing over who wants what kind of fence if it's along the property
line. :-)

Since our neighbour isn't sharing our cost, we put our fence about 6"
in on our property, so it is entirely ours. If we put it in any
further, since they never intend to put up a fence we'd essentially be
increasing their property size with out fence.

Not necessarily, unless you cede that property or allow them to build up
to your fence. If your fence was 6' inside your line, you are not giving
up that 6'. My neighbor across the street mows that 3' between his fence
and the property line. Even so, since the local code requires that
setback, it should be exempt from adverse possession laws as long as you
don't allow the neighbor to build anything within that 3', which would
be against the code anyway.


snip

If I ever put up a cedar, or any untreated wood fence again, I would
seal all surfaces, especially horizontal surfaces where snow and
rainwater lay. It's mostly my rails that are rotting away. I can't
even drive nails into the somewhat solid, but loose, pickets to
secure them, because it's like driving nails into styrofoam rails.


Our 1x4 is hiding beneath a horizontal 2x4, so for anything to get
behind that one is somewhat difficult, but I don't think we'll risk
not staining. I'll stain the backs tomorrow morning, let them dry most
of the day, then stain the front of the trim when we put them up.
Thanks for telling me your cedar fence story, it helped with my decision.

Stephen King wrote:

willshak wrote in
:



blue wrote:



willshak wrote:
snip



That is moot where I live. There would be no reason to share the
cost since a fence cannot be placed directly on a property line.
There is a property line setback for a fence here. When I built my
6' high pool fence some 17 years ago, the setback was 6 inches from
the property line (determined by survey). A couple of years ago, my
neighbor across the street put a fence up along his property line
and the setback at that time had been extended to 3' from the line.


Wow, that would suck, so potentially 2 neighbours could end up with a
6' gap between their fences? What a waste of space. But then again,
no arguing over who wants what kind of fence if it's along the
property line. :-)

Since our neighbour isn't sharing our cost, we put our fence about 6"
in on our property, so it is entirely ours. If we put it in any
further, since they never intend to put up a fence we'd essentially
be increasing their property size with out fence.


Not necessarily, unless you cede that property or allow them to build
up to your fence. If your fence was 6' inside your line, you are not
giving up that 6'. My neighbor across the street mows that 3' between
his fence and the property line. Even so, since the local code
requires that setback, it should be exempt from adverse possession
laws as long as you don't allow the neighbor to build anything within
that 3', which would be against the code anyway.



snip



If I ever put up a cedar, or any untreated wood fence again, I would
seal all surfaces, especially horizontal surfaces where snow and
rainwater lay. It's mostly my rails that are rotting away. I can't
even drive nails into the somewhat solid, but loose, pickets to
secure them, because it's like driving nails into styrofoam rails.


Our 1x4 is hiding beneath a horizontal 2x4, so for anything to get
behind that one is somewhat difficult, but I don't think we'll risk
not staining. I'll stain the backs tomorrow morning, let them dry
most of the day, then stain the front of the trim when we put them
up. Thanks for telling me your cedar fence story, it helped with my
decision.





wow, 3 feet! Our requirement is only 2 inches.


I don't know why it was increased to 3', but I suppose there was some
knee jerk reaction. As populations increase and new housing developments
are popping up all over, what once was rural is now becoming suburban. I
guess there were complaints about people erecting, or doing maintenance
on, fences that were too close to the line, and were tearing up their
neighbor's lawn, or garden, so they changed it to allow owners to get
behind their fence and still be on their own property. It doesn't take
many complaints to make changes. "The squeaky wheel gets the oil". I
know my neighbor has a garden on the other side of my fence and I am
going to have to try to replace the fence without trampling it. 6"
doesn't allow much room for maneuvering.