Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,297
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 2/26/2021 2:47 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Sometimes the minimum skilled jobs are really necessary and should pay
more. Take the garbage collection. Not much skill to drive the truck
and pick up the cans.


Bad example They could be making $40,000-$70,000 a year depending on
where they are, plus bennies.




It does all depend on where one lives. I would guess that in some
cities of California or New York the 40 to 70 thousand may put one on
the lower pay scale. Where I live that would be a very good paying job.
The average wage is mostly under $ 18 per hour.

What is difficult is that I guess many things cost the same in all parts
of the country not counting the homes and taxes.

It used to be that grocery stores around here hired people from 16 to 20
years old to stock the shelves and bag groceries. We even carried them
to the cars and put them in the cars. Now there are some that just
operate the cash registers and put the groceries in the bags. The fast
food places hired the same age group for most of the jobs. Now those
jobs are taken over by grown ups that are trying to make a living at it.

From what they are saying if the wages go up very much the fast food
places will soon go to a vending machine type operation. More jobs lost
to automation.


Now I am reminded of my niece, a high school graduate, who went to work
at a super market stocking shelves. Now she manages a super market in
the chain.
  #42   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40,893
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough



"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Sometimes the minimum skilled jobs are really necessary and should pay
more. Take the garbage collection. Not much skill to drive the truck
and pick up the cans.


Bad example They could be making $40,000-$70,000 a year depending on
where they are, plus bennies.




It does all depend on where one lives. I would guess that in some
cities of California or New York the 40 to 70 thousand may put one on
the lower pay scale. Where I live that would be a very good paying job.
The average wage is mostly under $ 18 per hour.

What is difficult is that I guess many things cost the same in all parts
of the country not counting the homes and taxes.

It used to be that grocery stores around here hired people from 16 to 20
years old to stock the shelves and bag groceries. We even carried them
to the cars and put them in the cars. Now there are some that just
operate the cash registers and put the groceries in the bags. The fast
food places hired the same age group for most of the jobs.


Now those jobs are taken over by grown
ups that are trying to make a living at it.


I don't believe that with either of those jobs.

From what they are saying if the wages go up very much the fast
food places will soon go to a vending machine type operation.


Yep, it a classic where its easy to automate.

More jobs lost to automation.


But the unemployment rate is still very low without the virus.

  #43   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,074
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 02/26/2021 07:16 AM, wrote:
On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 9:12:24 AM UTC-5, bruce bowser wrote:
On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 9:01:55 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
OT Why $7.50 is enough

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1807595.html

"Republican Senator John Thune has rejected an effort from congressional
Democrats to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $15,
pointing to his $6 or less hourly wages that he earned working at a
restaurant as a €œkid€."


Thune graduated from Jones County High School in Murdo, South Dakota in
1979, when a $6 hourly wage €“ adjusted to modern inflation rates €“ would
amount to roughly $23 in 2021 dollars.

But he thinks, or he wants you to think, that if he got by on $6 or
less, people 41 years later should get by on 7.50.

Now, the mimumim wage in Spain is $8.00 an hour USD. Why pay them more?


It's $19.84 in Australia. Why pay them less?


Which is USD 15.31...

  #44   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,074
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 02/26/2021 11:19 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Service stations mean lots of things now. Many in my area mainly pump
gas (most are really pump it yourself) and maybe change or repair tires
and a few minor things like wipers and light bulbs and oil changes. I
think a lot of their money comes from the safety inspections. That is
about all that is required of by cars of today. Anything else is usually
a major repair and requires lots of skill.


I think there is one real service station in town. For most the gas
pumps are an addition to the casino or mini-mart that barely break even/


  #45   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,760
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 2/26/2021 1:58 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 06:51:35 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 9:43:15 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:27 AM, wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:01 AM, micky wrote:
OT Why $7.50 is enough

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1807595.html


"Republican Senator John Thune has rejected an effort from congressional
Democrats to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $15,
pointing to his $6 or less hourly wages that he earned working at a
restaurant as a €œkid€."


Thune graduated from Jones County High School in Murdo, South Dakota in
1979, when a $6 hourly wage €“ adjusted to modern inflation rates €“ would
amount to roughly $23 in 2021 dollars.

But he thinks, or he wants you to think, that if he got by on $6 or
less, people 41 years later should get by on 7.50.

If you don't want minimum wage, don't have minimum skills.


Are you aware that there are people who, no matter how hard they try,
will never have more than minimum skills? The retarded bagger at the
grocery store, for example.

Next you'll be bitching that those minimal-skills people are getting
food stamps because they can't afford to live on minimum wage.


I suppose they should understand once they are making $15 some of
those programs may be unavailable to them


Correct, that is one reason to pay a decent wage, they don't suck off
the government teat.


  #46   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,760
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 2/26/2021 1:55 PM, wrote:


When I started working, in 1963, the minimum wage was $1. Adjusted for
inflation that is $8.55 now.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

In 1966 I started at IBM at $2.60 an hour.


In 1963 it was $1.25

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/min.../history/chart

Would be $10.65 now
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
  #47   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,760
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.


That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"


And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored vintage car.


I know people like that too. Some could not change the radio on a new
car though, an a lot of the other electronics.

You don't need 4 years but you need more than the old days.
  #48   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,560
Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed!

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 05:12:53 +1100, Fredcantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:
  #49   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.


That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"


And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored vintage car.


I know people like that too. Some could not change the radio on a new car
though, an a lot of the other electronics.


That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.

You don't need 4 years but you need more than the old days.


Thats very arguable indeed given that there is very little
to do on modern cars now, just change the oil, redo the
brake pads etc as required, change the plugs etc. Even
with fault finding, its much easier to do now with the
OBD2 telling you which sensor has failed quite a bit
of the time and no timing etc to do anymore.

Makes no sense to require formal qualifications.

  #50   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,074
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 02/26/2021 02:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/26/2021 1:55 PM, wrote:


When I started working, in 1963, the minimum wage was $1. Adjusted for
inflation that is $8.55 now.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

In 1966 I started at IBM at $2.60 an hour.


In 1963 it was $1.25

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/min.../history/chart

Would be $10.65 now
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm


This is a cut'n'paste from twitter and I have not checked the numbers.
$11 would put a single person over the SNAP limit I believe, for a full
40 hour work week but Walmart appears to employ many part timers.

I shop at Walmart about once a year after exhausting the other options
in town so I have no feel for it. I have been shopping at CostCo for
over 20 years and recognize quite a few people that have been working
there that long so they must be satisfied.


Dan Price @DanPriceSeattle

Min wage
Costco: $16
Walmart: $11

Average pay
Costco: $24
Walmart: $15

Employees on food stamps (subsidized by you)
Costco: Virtually none
Walmart: More than any other company

Founder net worth
Costco: not a billionaire
Walmart: over $220 billion; up $30 billion in pandemic


  #51   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,760
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 2/26/2021 4:42 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.

That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"

And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored vintage
car.


I know people like that too.Â* Some could not change the radio on a new
car though, an a lot of the other electronics.


That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.


Some won't touch them. Evidently you have not seen the complexity of
these units and everything they control. It isn't just a radio any
more. Navigation, cameras, sat reception, connected services, modems,
and more.



You don't need 4 years but you need more than the old days.


Thats very arguable indeed given that there is very little
to do on modern cars now, just change the oil, redo the
brake pads etc as required, change the plugs etc. Even
with fault finding, its much easier to do now with the
OBD2 telling you which sensor has failed quite a bit
of the time and no timing etc to do anymore.

Makes no sense to require formal qualifications.


Without some training and qualifications you probably won't get a job at
a dealership aside from changing tires. Have you looked at some of the
battery connectors? They are not like on your '72 Chevy any more.

Where would you start looking for an error on the Automatic emergency
braking system? or the Lane Keep assist. How about lining up the
cameras after a windshield change? Some of the windshield companies
will send you to the dealer for calibration after they change the glass.
Do you know how to do it?
  #53   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,560
Default lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile Gossip

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 15:47:09 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:



This is a cut'n'paste from twitter and I have not checked the numbers.
$11 would put a single person over the SNAP limit I believe, for a full
40 hour work week but Walmart appears to employ many part timers.

I shop at Walmart about once a year...


Oh, my! LOL
  #54   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:12:25 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 2:47:32 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Sometimes the minimum skilled jobs are really necessary and should pay
more. Take the garbage collection. Not much skill to drive the truck
and pick up the cans.

Bad example They could be making $40,000-$70,000 a year depending on
where they are, plus bennies.



It does all depend on where one lives. I would guess that in some
cities of California or New York the 40 to 70 thousand may put one on
the lower pay scale. Where I live that would be a very good paying job.
The average wage is mostly under $ 18 per hour.

What is difficult is that I guess many things cost the same in all parts
of the country not counting the homes and taxes.

It used to be that grocery stores around here hired people from 16 to 20
years old to stock the shelves and bag groceries. We even carried them
to the cars and put them in the cars. Now there are some that just
operate the cash registers and put the groceries in the bags. The fast
food places hired the same age group for most of the jobs. Now those
jobs are taken over by grown ups that are trying to make a living at it.


Yeah. I can't remember which downturn it was (1992?) that I first saw
some gray-haired old man working at McDonald's. It was kind of sad.
He definitely looked like he'd been downsized from a real job and was
at the end of his rope.

Cindy Hamilton

I started working in fast food joints in 84 and we had some that were
all kids with a 2.5 or 3 three a year turn over rate, a few were full
of older people who had been there long enough to make decent money
for Florida. That still wasn't the only bread winner in the house tho.
It was empty nest housewives or ones with kids on school who wanted a
daytime gig while their hubby was at work for some extra money. Those
were the smoothest running shops because any one of them could have
been the manager but they didn't want to move. I was one of the few
guys who didn't mind fast food. I just made it easier with a change in
the maintenance philosophy and we ended getting a pretty good
reputation at Wendy's HQ. When they rolled out their new registers,
they did it in our territory. I met Dave.
  #55   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:00:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/26/2021 1:55 PM, wrote:


When I started working, in 1963, the minimum wage was $1. Adjusted for
inflation that is $8.55 now.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

In 1966 I started at IBM at $2.60 an hour.


In 1963 it was $1.25

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/min.../history/chart

Would be $10.65 now
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm


Read the footnotes
"1 the 1938 Act was applicable generally to employees engaged in
interstate commerce or in the production of goods for interstate
commerce.
2 the 1961 Amendments extended coverage primarily to employees in
large retail and service enterprises as well as to local transit,
construction, and gasoline service station employees. "

Most folks fell under #2. $1,00 if they were covered at all. My short
lived lifeguard job was exempt from both.

It was a 12 hour a day job that paid **** but you had all the teenaged
girls you could handle. That is a consideration when you are 17. My
best paying job was cash delivering iced chickens, $20 a truckload all
around Northern Virginia, mostly to 7-11s when they were selling
rotisserie chickens. If you hustled you could empty the truck in about
4-5 hours. That was more money than I made at IBM. The problem was it
was only one day a week, Saturday.



  #56   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 4:42 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.

That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"

And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored vintage
car.


I know people like that too. Some could not change the radio on a new
car though, an a lot of the other electronics.


That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.


Some won't touch them.


The specialists do.

Evidently you have not seen the complexity of these units and everything
they control.


Yes I have, and got an unlock code for one in one of the
used Mercs that a mate of mine buys off ebay, fixes and
sells for twice what he paid for them, by fixing their fault.

It isn't just a radio any more. Navigation, cameras, sat reception,
connected services, modems, and more.


Yep, and thats part of the reason its specialists that do most of the work.

You don't need 4 years but you need more than the old days.


Thats very arguable indeed given that there is very little
to do on modern cars now, just change the oil, redo the
brake pads etc as required, change the plugs etc. Even
with fault finding, its much easier to do now with the
OBD2 telling you which sensor has failed quite a bit
of the time and no timing etc to do anymore.


Makes no sense to require formal qualifications.


Without some training and qualifications you probably won't get a job at a
dealership aside from changing tires.


But will still be able to with the non dealer operations
and will be able to do it yourself. We have annual checks
for registration renewal every year and thats mostly
done by non dealers who do all the work on cars and
small trucks apart from the fancy stuff like radios.

Have you looked at some of the battery connectors?


Yep, I change batteries myself.

They are not like on your '72 Chevy any more.


Yes, but any decent mechanic can do it fine.

Where would you start looking for an error on the Automatic emergency
braking system?


Use youtube etc.

or the Lane Keep assist. How about lining up the cameras after a
windshield change?


You dont need 4 years of back to school for that
that wouldnt have taught you that anyway,

Some of the windshield companies will send you to the dealer for
calibration after they change the glass. Do you know how to do it?


Dont need to, get the dealer to do it.

And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training before you can work as a mechanic.

  #57   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough



"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

You don't need 4 years but you need more than the old days.


That?s very arguable indeed given that there is very little
to do on modern cars now, just change the oil, redo the
brake pads etc as required, change the plugs etc. Even
with fault finding, its much easier to do now with the
OBD2 telling you which sensor has failed quite a bit
of the time and no timing etc to do anymore.

Makes no sense to require formal qualifications.


Sometimes I don't know about that. It took a dealer mechanic
about 3 weeks just to find the mass air sensor (think that was
the part) was causing my Toyota to run very rough.


There will always be curly ones, but that's a separate issue
to whether it makes any sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training before you can work on any cars etc.

In fact a mate of mine who has no formal training past
high school and who was a right little brat in high school
spends all his time as a mechanic buys used Mercs off
ebay, fixes the faults other mechanics havent been
able to fix and sells them for twice what he paid.

I had replaced the simple things like the plugs, wires,
fuel filter. The Autozone or some other parts place
had a chart that mentioned that, but as it was about
a $ 500 part I wanted to make sure that was what it
needed. This was on a 1991 so it probably did not
have the OBD2 to tell what sensor was bad.


Sure, but any decent mechanic wouldn't have
had to try things are random like you did.

It took so long that I even emailed
the Toyota headquarters about that.


Sure, there will always be curly ones, but clearly
the formal training didn't help that mechanic.


  #58   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,760
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 2/26/2021 8:28 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 4:42 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.

That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"

And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored
vintage car.

I know people like that too.Â* Some could not change the radio on a
new car though, an a lot of the other electronics.

That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.


Some won't touch them.


The specialists do.


Oh, as in someone with training? You made my point. You no longer go
to Smokey's CB shop up the road.


Evidently you have not seen the complexity of these units and
everything they control.


Yes I have, and got an unlock code for one in one of the
used Mercs that a mate of mine buys off ebay, fixes and
sells for twice what he paid for them, by fixing their fault.

It isn't just a radio any more.Â* Navigation, cameras, sat reception,
connected services, modems, and more.


Yep, and thats part of the reason its specialists that do most of the
work.


Exactly, people with some training.




Where would you start looking for an error on the Automatic emergency
braking system?


Use youtube etc.


You still need some familiarity with electronics and how to find and fix
the problems. Few people will just look at a youtube video and figure
it out.



or the Lane Keep assist. How about lining up the cameras after a
windshield change?


You dont need 4 years of back to school for that
that wouldnt have taught you that anyway,


I didn't say 4 years, but some training is needed.



Some of the windshield companies will send you to the dealer for
calibration after they change the glass.Â* Do you know how to do it?


Dont need to, get the dealer to do it.


If the glass company does not have the instruments you do. Some now
have them, not all do. As the systems become more commonplace they are
investing in the equipment. Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.

And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training beforeÂ* you can work as a mechanic.



I never said 4 years. But a competent shop today has assorted training
for their certified mechanics.

I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...stories.50030/

https://www.svtperformance.com/threa...tories.884065/

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f7/j...tories-209317/

  #59   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 8:28 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 4:42 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.

That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"

And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored vintage
car.

I know people like that too. Some could not change the radio on a new
car though, an a lot of the other electronics.

That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.


Some won't touch them.


The specialists do.


Oh, as in someone with training?


Nope, those who choose to specialise in that area.

You made my point. You no longer go to Smokey's CB shop up the road.


Wrong, that is precisely who do specialise in that stuff.

Evidently you have not seen the complexity of these units and everything
they control.


Yes I have, and got an unlock code for one in one of the
used Mercs that a mate of mine buys off ebay, fixes and
sells for twice what he paid for them, by fixing their fault.

It isn't just a radio any more. Navigation, cameras, sat reception,
connected services, modems, and more.


Yep, and thats part of the reason its specialists that do most of the
work.


Exactly, people with some training.


Still wrong, they dont have formal training. they just specialise in it.

Where would you start looking for an error on the Automatic emergency
braking system?


Use youtube etc.


You still need some familiarity with electronics


But dont need formal training in that.

and how to find and fix the problems.


Not when you can use youtube.

Few people will just look at a youtube video and figure it out.


Any decent mechanic can.

Yes, they arent common.

I was given a box of bits that were the result of
one of the neighbour's kids disassembling one
of the bicycle epicyclic gearboxes that you dont
see on bikes anymore, before the internet was
even invented and was able to put it back together
as good as new with only a basic knowledge of
how they work and the wear marks.

And I designed and built on a bare block of land
the quite fancy passive solar house, again without
any internet without any formal training in house
building at all, just the library and walking around
in the evening looking at how houses being built
were done.

or the Lane Keep assist. How about lining up the cameras after a
windshield change?


You dont need 4 years of back to school for that
that wouldnt have taught you that anyway,


I didn't say 4 years, but some training is needed.


Bull****. My mechanic mate hasnt had any.

And the other one that me and a couple of other
mates helped move a pile of rusting metal to his
back yard which he turned into a magnificently
restored vintage car didnt either in mechanics.

Some of the windshield companies will send you to the dealer for
calibration after they change the glass. Do you know how to do it?


Dont need to, get the dealer to do it.


If the glass company does not have the instruments you do. Some now have
them, not all do. As the systems become more commonplace they are
investing in the equipment. Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.


But those operations dont go back to school to learn how to do it.

They use the documentation that comes with it.

And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training before you can work as a mechanic.


I never said 4 years. But a competent shop today has assorted training
for their certified mechanics.


And the best mechanics dont need that.

I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.


In fact I do all the work on my car myself.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...stories.50030/

https://www.svtperformance.com/threa...tories.884065/

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f7/j...tories-209317/


There will always be incompetent fools in any area, even just changing a
wheel.

  #60   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,760
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 2/26/2021 9:20 PM, Fred wrote:



Oh, as in someoneÂ* with training?


Nope, those who choose to specialise in that area.


How did they learn? Came to them in a dream?



You made my point.Â* You no longer go to Smokey's CB shop up the road.


Wrong, that is precisely who do specialise in that stuff.


Yep, they learned in a dream on night.


Yes I have, and got an unlock code for one in one of the
used Mercs that a mate of mine buys off ebay, fixes and
sells for twice what he paid for them, by fixing their fault.


Yes, one person.


It isn't just a radio any more.Â* Navigation, cameras, sat reception,
connected services, modems, and more.

Yep, and thats part of the reason its specialists that do most of
the work.


Exactly, people with some training.


Still wrong, they dont have formal training. they just specialise in it.


Where did they learn it?



Bull****. My mechanic mate hasnt had any.


OK, a sample of 1 Very scientific.



If the glass company does not have the instruments you do.Â* Some now
have them, not all do.Â* As the systems become more commonplace they
are investing in the equipment.Â* Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.


But those operations dont go back to school to learn how to do it.

They use the documentation that comes with it.


WTF do you think that is? A form of training.



And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training beforeÂ* you can work as a mechanic.


I never said 4 years.Â* But a competent shop today has assorted
training for their certified mechanics.


And the best mechanics dont need that.


Try running a dealership without it



I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.


In fact I do all the work on my car myself.


Another sample of 1





  #61   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 9:20 PM, Fred wrote:



Oh, as in someone with training?


Nope, those who choose to specialise in that area.


How did they learn?


By doing it, just like any decent mechanic does.

Came to them in a dream?


Nope.

You made my point. You no longer go to Smokey's CB shop up the road.


Wrong, that is precisely who do specialise in that stuff.


Yep, they learned in a dream on night.


Nope, by doing it.

Yes I have, and got an unlock code for one in one of the
used Mercs that a mate of mine buys off ebay, fixes and
sells for twice what he paid for them, by fixing their fault.


Yes, one person.


Plenty more than one person that even I know.

It isn't just a radio any more. Navigation, cameras, sat reception,
connected services, modems, and more.

Yep, and thats part of the reason its specialists that do most of the
work.


Exactly, people with some training.


Still wrong, they dont have formal training. they just specialise in it.


Where did they learn it?


By doing it.

Bull****. My mechanic mate hasnt had any.


OK, a sample of 1 Very scientific.


None of the others I know have either.

If the glass company does not have the instruments you do. Some now
have them, not all do. As the systems become more commonplace they are
investing in the equipment. Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.


But those operations dont go back to school to learn how to do it.

They use the documentation that comes with it.


WTF do you think that is? A form of training.


Bull**** it is, just like it isnt with any appliance
or the car you buy.

And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training before you can work as a mechanic.


I never said 4 years. But a competent shop today has assorted training
for their certified mechanics.


And the best mechanics dont need that.


Try running a dealership without it


I know one that has done just that.

I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.


In fact I do all the work on my car myself.


Another sample of 1


Plenty of others do that too.

  #62   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,564
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:52:16 -0500, Heywood wrote:

On 2/26/2021 1:15 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 9:43 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:27 AM, wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:01 AM, micky wrote:
OT** Why $7.50 is enough

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1807595.html


"Republican Senator John Thune has rejected an effort from
congressional
Democrats to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $15,
pointing to his $6 or less hourly wages that he earned working at a
restaurant as a “kid”."


Thune graduated from Jones County High School in Murdo, South
Dakota in
1979, when a $6 hourly wage – adjusted to modern inflation rates –
would
amount to roughly $23 in 2021 dollars.

But he thinks, or he wants you to think, that if he got by on $6 or
less, people 41 years later should get by on 7.50.


If you don't want minimum wage, don't have minimum skills.


While that seems to make a lot of sense at first glance, some people
are morn with minimal capacity.* They do not have the ability to improve.


That last is bull**** even with the retarded.


So, tell us about your experience working with retarded and low
intelligence people. Surely you have evidence to back up your statement.



Maybe $5 is enough for them?


I've hired people like that and though limited did a fine job and were
reliable.* No need to starve them.


No one starves in the first and second
world except the bulimics and anorexics.


And the poor that go to bed hungry and the homeless.



If you cannot pay $10 today you don't deserve to be in business.


That’s bull**** too.


What is a fair pay?

Anything over a dollar an hour is overpaying for the likes of Rod
Speed.
  #63   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,564
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:47:26 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Sometimes the minimum skilled jobs are really necessary and should pay
more. Take the garbage collection. Not much skill to drive the truck
and pick up the cans.


Bad example They could be making $40,000-$70,000 a year depending on
where they are, plus bennies.




It does all depend on where one lives. I would guess that in some
cities of California or New York the 40 to 70 thousand may put one on
the lower pay scale. Where I live that would be a very good paying job.
The average wage is mostly under $ 18 per hour.

What is difficult is that I guess many things cost the same in all parts
of the country not counting the homes and taxes.

It used to be that grocery stores around here hired people from 16 to 20
years old to stock the shelves and bag groceries. We even carried them
to the cars and put them in the cars. Now there are some that just
operate the cash registers and put the groceries in the bags. The fast
food places hired the same age group for most of the jobs. Now those
jobs are taken over by grown ups that are trying to make a living at it.

From what they are saying if the wages go up very much the fast food
places will soon go to a vending machine type operation. More jobs lost
to automation.

Minimum wage is $14.25 in Ontario and the fast food restaurants are
still doing fine (barely surviving through COVID but not due to wage
costs) A McDonalds "manager" makes about $32000 a year. Student
minimum wage is $12.75?
Average fast food worker pay is $15 an hour in Canada. (not enough)
Tim Hortons starts at about $14.25. Dairy Queen pay's $15. Wendy's
pays $15.73 for a "shift manager".
  #64   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,564
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:42:12 +1100, "Fred" wrote:



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.

That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"

And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored vintage car.


I know people like that too. Some could not change the radio on a new car
though, an a lot of the other electronics.


That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.

You don't need 4 years but you need more than the old days.


That’s very arguable indeed given that there is very little
to do on modern cars now, just change the oil, redo the
brake pads etc as required, change the plugs etc. Even
with fault finding, its much easier to do now with the
OBD2 telling you which sensor has failed quite a bit
of the time and no timing etc to do anymore.

Makes no sense to require formal qualifications.


I'lL call you on your BS
The OBDII tells you what reading is out of spec. That is ALL it tells
you. It takes an educated professional to know what can cause that
reading to be wrong and how to test and PROVE what the problem is
instead of throwing half a dozeh expensive components at the car, then
cross their fingers and hope they didn't STILL miss the real problem.
That's why the "pinpoint tests" in the factory manual for a given
error code can cover 7 pages in the factory manual - and why the print
version of a typical factory manual con be over 6 inches thick. (and
cost several hundred dollars - and why they are virtually all now in
electronic format indexed 7 ways to sunday) Many won't fit on a CD any
more - and some require double layer DVDs.
Servicing variable valve timing and gasoline direct injection, not to
mention computer controlled transmissions and turbocharged engines and
anti-lock brakes, and active colission avoidance, and traction control
- and canbus controlled door locking systems - and even tail-lights
with computers in them -
Good luck sucker of you don't have a well trained mechanic working on
it. Just the electrical wiring will blow the mind of most "mr fixits"
- whenthe doors lockand unlock by themselves driving down the road -
or the alarm goes off in the middle of the night - or the windows go
up or down by themselves (or don't when you want them to) or the car
won't start or the doors won't unlock (or lock) from the FOB - or the
airbag light comes on - and particularly when the problems are
intermittent - - -. There are no "adjustments" any more - sure. They
require less scheduled maintenance - for sure - but those are the
SIMPLE jobs that the uneducated guy with grease under his fingers and
a $50 tool kit could do.

Also, Today's cars , on the whole - have a LOT more miles on them. A
car with 10000 miles on it is just nicely broken in and you are not
going to scrap it just because there is one small problem that you
can't fix (but you would be surprised how many cars end up scrapped
for what would have amounted to a "simple" problem 15 years ago )
because you don't have a properly trained mechanic to fix it.

ANd just for the safety and liability reasons untrained people should
NOT be screwing around with safety related stuff - even "simple" stuff
like brakes

We've all seen the posts from guys (possibly even guys like you)
asking what to do next to fix whatever small problem on their car
after replacing half a dozen or more parts - at a cost of several
hundred dollars - that an educated mechanic could have told you in 10
seconds, without seeing the car, were NOT going to be the problem just
from how you describe the problem - - - - . Many times it's "my
mechanic has replaced all these parts and it still has the problem" or
"I've haf 4 mechanics look at it and they don't have a clue"

Right - they are noit properlyt trained - and they LITERALLY don't
have a clue.
  #65   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,564
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 20:59:13 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/26/2021 8:28 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 4:42 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.

That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"

And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored
vintage car.

I know people like that too.* Some could not change the radio on a
new car though, an a lot of the other electronics.

That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.


Some won't touch them.


The specialists do.


Oh, as in someone with training? You made my point. You no longer go
to Smokey's CB shop up the road.


Evidently you have not seen the complexity of these units and
everything they control.


Yes I have, and got an unlock code for one in one of the
used Mercs that a mate of mine buys off ebay, fixes and
sells for twice what he paid for them, by fixing their fault.

It isn't just a radio any more.* Navigation, cameras, sat reception,
connected services, modems, and more.


Yep, and that’s part of the reason its specialists that do most of the
work.


Exactly, people with some training.




Where would you start looking for an error on the Automatic emergency
braking system?


Use youtube etc.


You still need some familiarity with electronics and how to find and fix
the problems. Few people will just look at a youtube video and figure
it out.


ANd there is so much total bull**** on YouTube too. ANybody can be an
"expert" There is a saying that sorting the goof information on the
internet from the bad is like sorting fly**** from pepper.


or the Lane Keep assist. How about lining up the cameras after a
windshield change?


You don’t need 4 years of back to school for that
that wouldn’t have taught you that anyway,


I didn't say 4 years, but some training is needed.



Some of the windshield companies will send you to the dealer for
calibration after they change the glass.* Do you know how to do it?


Don’t need to, get the dealer to do it.


If the glass company does not have the instruments you do. Some now
have them, not all do. As the systems become more commonplace they are
investing in the equipment. Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.

And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training before* you can work as a mechanic.



I never said 4 years. But a competent shop today has assorted training
for their certified mechanics.

I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...stories.50030/

https://www.svtperformance.com/threa...tories.884065/

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f7/j...tories-209317/



I could add quite a few more from experience - having been a licensed
automotive mechanic for almost 50 years. (just let my license lapse at
age 66)


  #66   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,564
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 13:20:52 +1100, "Fred" wrote:

No use arguing with a fool - it's like mud-wrestling with a pig.
He (Fred) is abviously willfully ignorant - We are all born ignorant,
but it's a full-time job to remain ignorant all your life.
  #67   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,564
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 22:06:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/26/2021 9:20 PM, Fred wrote:


If the glass company does not have the instruments you do.* Some now
have them, not all do.* As the systems become more commonplace they
are investing in the equipment.* Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.


But those operations don’t go back to school to learn how to do it.


All the big glass shop chains have training programs and spend a LOT
on training

They use the documentation that comes with it.


WTF do you think that is? A form of training.



And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training before* you can work as a mechanic.


I never said 4 years.* But a competent shop today has assorted
training for their certified mechanics.


And the best mechanics don’t need that.

As a fealer service manager I sent my technicians to training
provided by the manufacturer several times a year. Average about 15
hours per tech per year. When I was working at an independent
":service station" garage the oil company provided training several
times a year on different systems. I likely averaged 15 hours a year
from SHell, Imperial, and Texaco over the years as well as seminars
put on by publications like SSGM (Service Station and Garage
Management) and from parts suppliers (like UAP/NAPA) and companies
like Delco Remy, Neihoff and Echlin) just for starters - and that was
when cars were "simple" mechanical dinasaurs


Try running a dealership without it



I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.


In fact I do all the work on my car myself.


Another sample of 1


And how many un-necessary parts does he install trying to solve a
problem before he stumbles on the right fix? Even a blind pig finds
the occaisional acorn.



  #68   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough



"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:42:12 +1100, "Fred" wrote:



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.

That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"

And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored vintage
car.


I know people like that too. Some could not change the radio on a new
car
though, an a lot of the other electronics.


That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.

You don't need 4 years but you need more than the old days.


That's very arguable indeed given that there is very little
to do on modern cars now, just change the oil, redo the
brake pads etc as required, change the plugs etc. Even
with fault finding, its much easier to do now with the
OBD2 telling you which sensor has failed quite a bit
of the time and no timing etc to do anymore.

Makes no sense to require formal qualifications.


I'lL call you on your BS


We'll see...

The OBDII tells you what reading is
out of spec. That is ALL it tells you.


Bull**** with plenty of cars.

It takes an educated professional to know what can cause that
reading to be wrong and how to test and PROVE what the problem is


More bull****. Plenty of the best mechanics can do that,
they don't need to be educated to do that and never have.

instead of throwing half a dozeh expensive components at the car, then
cross their fingers and hope they didn't STILL miss the real problem.


The best mechanics don't operate like that.

That's why the "pinpoint tests" in the factory manual for a given
error code can cover 7 pages in the factory manual - and why the
print version of a typical factory manual con be over 6 inches thick.


And the best mechanics are free to use that.

(and cost several hundred dollars


Not anymore now that they are often trivially downloadable.

- and why they are virtually all now in electronic
format indexed 7 ways to sunday) Many won't fit on
a CD any more - and some require double layer DVDs.


And the best mechanics don't need them for most faults.

Servicing variable valve timing and gasoline direct injection,
not to mention computer controlled transmissions and
turbocharged engines and anti-lock brakes, and active
colission avoidance, and traction control - and canbus
controlled door locking systems - and even tail-lights
with computers in them -


Good luck sucker of you don't have
a well trained mechanic working on it.


Mate of mine that fixes Mercs has no formal training
and always works out what the problem is. That's
why so many get him to do the curly stuff.

Just the electrical wiring will blow the mind of most "mr fixits"
- whenthe doors lockand unlock by themselves driving down
the road - or the alarm goes off in the middle of the night -
or the windows go up or down by themselves (or don't when
you want them to) or the car won't start or the doors won't
unlock (or lock) from the FOB - or the airbag light comes on
- and particularly when the problems are intermittent - - -.


Those faults arent common at all.

There are no "adjustments" any more - sure. They require
less scheduled maintenance - for sure - but those are the
SIMPLE jobs that the uneducated guy with grease under
his fingers and a $50 tool kit could do.


So those individuals are fine in the service stations
that still do more than just pump gas. No need for
the state to require 4 years of formal education
before they are allowed to do that stuff.

Also, Today's cars , on the whole - have a LOT more miles on them.


That's very arguable with the cars most of us drive.

A car with 10000 miles on it is just nicely broken
in and you are not going to scrap it just because
there is one small problem that you can't fix


But plenty still get a new car every couple of years.

(but you would be surprised how many cars end up scrapped for
what would have amounted to a "simple" problem 15 years ago )
because you don't have a properly trained mechanic to fix it.


Yep, that's why that mate of mine buys those turbo Mercs off
ebay, fixes the problem, and flogs them for twice what he paid
for the original and the parts. With no formal training at all.

ANd just for the safety and liability reasons untrained
people should NOT be screwing around with safety
related stuff - even "simple" stuff like brakes


Bull****. Any decent mechanic can replace brake pads etc.

We've all seen the posts from guys (possibly even guys like you)
asking what to do next to fix whatever small problem on their car
after replacing half a dozen or more parts - at a cost of several
hundred dollars - that an educated mechanic could have told
you in 10 seconds, without seeing the car, were NOT going to
be the problem just from how you describe the problem - - - - .


Just as true of any decent uneducated mechanic and
anyone that can do some research using google too.

Its no news that most don't have decent diagnostic skills
but that's an entirely separate matter to whether 4 years
of formal education is needed by the best mechanics.

Many times it's "my mechanic has replaced all
these parts and it still has the problem" or "I've
haf 4 mechanics look at it and they don't have a clue"


Its no news that many mechanics don't have
a clue with all but the most basic routine stuff.

Right - they are noit properlyt trained -
and they LITERALLY don't have a clue.


Plenty were properly trained and still don't have
any real diagnostic skills, because most don't.

  #69   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough



"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 22:06:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/26/2021 9:20 PM, Fred wrote:


If the glass company does not have the instruments you do. Some now
have them, not all do. As the systems become more commonplace they
are investing in the equipment. Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.

But those operations don't go back to school to learn how to do it.


All the big glass shop chains have training programs and spend a LOT
on training

They use the documentation that comes with it.


WTF do you think that is? A form of training.



And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training before you can work as a mechanic.

I never said 4 years. But a competent shop today has assorted
training for their certified mechanics.

And the best mechanics don't need that.

As a fealer service manager I sent my technicians to training
provided by the manufacturer several times a year. Average about 15
hours per tech per year. When I was working at an independent
":service station" garage the oil company provided training several
times a year on different systems. I likely averaged 15 hours a year
from SHell, Imperial, and Texaco over the years as well as seminars
put on by publications like SSGM (Service Station and Garage
Management) and from parts suppliers (like UAP/NAPA) and companies
like Delco Remy, Neihoff and Echlin) just for starters - and that was
when cars were "simple" mechanical dinasaurs


Try running a dealership without it



I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.

In fact I do all the work on my car myself.


Another sample of 1


And how many un-necessary parts does he install trying
to solve a problem before he stumbles on the right fix?


None, zero, not one, nada.

Didn't when building the house either.

And when I did the concrete slab, had the local
council building inspector tell the local builders to
have a look at mine before the concrete was poured
because that is how it is supposed to be done.

They didn't bother to use bar chairs, just pulled the
mesh up with a long T handled thing with a hook on
it once the concrete had been poured. The problem
with that approach is that it doesn't guarantee that
the mesh ends up in the right place vertically.

  #70   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,564
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:17:00 +1100, "Fred" wrote:



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 9:20 PM, Fred wrote:



Oh, as in someone with training?

Nope, those who choose to specialise in that area.


How did they learn?


By doing it, just like any decent mechanic does.

Came to them in a dream?


Nope.

You made my point. You no longer go to Smokey's CB shop up the road.

Wrong, that is precisely who do specialise in that stuff.


Yep, they learned in a dream on night.


Nope, by doing it.

Yes I have, and got an unlock code for one in one of the
used Mercs that a mate of mine buys off ebay, fixes and
sells for twice what he paid for them, by fixing their fault.


Yes, one person.


Plenty more than one person that even I know.

It isn't just a radio any more. Navigation, cameras, sat reception,
connected services, modems, and more.

Yep, and that’s part of the reason its specialists that do most of the
work.

Exactly, people with some training.

Still wrong, they don’t have formal training. they just specialise in it.


Where did they learn it?


By doing it.

Bull****. My mechanic mate hasn’t had any.


OK, a sample of 1 Very scientific.


None of the others I know have either.

If the glass company does not have the instruments you do. Some now
have them, not all do. As the systems become more commonplace they are
investing in the equipment. Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.

But those operations don’t go back to school to learn how to do it.

They use the documentation that comes with it.


WTF do you think that is? A form of training.


Bull**** it is, just like it isnt with any appliance
or the car you buy.

And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training before you can work as a mechanic.

I never said 4 years. But a competent shop today has assorted training
for their certified mechanics.

And the best mechanics don’t need that.


Try running a dealership without it


I know one that has done just that.

I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.

In fact I do all the work on my car myself.


Another sample of 1


Plenty of others do that too.

And we wonder why "STEALERSHIPS" have such a bad reputation -
particularly in the unregulated redneck states and why everyone in the
USA seams to be continually bitching about "mechanics" - because they
very seldom actually are dealing with a properly trained, educated,
cerified and regulated "professional" mechanic.

Even your "ASE Certified" designation is a bit of a sorry JOKE, by
and large.

ANd as for guys with no training working on their own cars - BOY,
could I tell you some stories!!!!! I've scrutineered at National
Street Rod meets -(and Historic Automobile Club meets) and some of the
DANGEROUS and totally illegal, STUPID and SCARY stuff you run across.
(I'm in southern Ontario - and we got a lot of cars from New York,
Michigan, Pennsylvania and other states (even Texas, Alabama,
Oklahoma, Florida, New Jersy - holy CRAP!! - and Washington State)
come up for the CanNats and other big shows - and BY FAR the scariest
stuff, was on American cars - some of them pretty fancy "high buck"
"restorations" and "hot rods"

A lot of them made the "road kill" shenanigans look professional -
We sent several vehicles back to the US border on trailers. Told them
"It goes on the trailer or the OPP will be notified and you do NOT
want them impounding the car and charging you for the offenses" What
they do when they get to the border is up to them - but they were NOT
going to be on Ontario roads endagering themselves and everyone else
on the road.
The sad thing is MANY of these vehicles came from states with
mandatory annual "safety inspections" performed by the very untrained
service station operators you claim need no training, qualifications,
or regulation!!!!!

ANd travelling throughthe USA numerous times I've run across
travellers who have had problems with their vehicles or rigs and have
been to numerous shops attempting to solve their problems - and I've
fixed them at the campground or on the side of the road in a few
minutes because I KNEW what to look for - what would cause the problem
- and it was SCARY what they had spent on things that didn't have a
CHANCE of being the cause of the problem.

A case in point was a little Winnebago LeSharo (Renault 4 cyl) who had
spent over $1000 trying to solve a rough running and power loss
problem - from Rhode Island to Florida to Arizona and back to Florida
and Georgia - where we met when they stumbled into the camp-ground- on
their way back to Rhode Island - and the whole problem was the new set
of plugs they had installed before leaving home - and replaced with
the same WRONG plugs and therefore ruled them out. (They had - the
wrong- Bosch Platinums installed and the compression seals had failed
in several of the plugs) - I put in the recommended AC Delco plugs and
they were on their way - got a note from them when we (and they) got
home saying it had NEVER run better - - - and the plugs were WAY less
than half the cost of the Bosch plugs.

Onthe way through Michigan on the way to the west coast, towing a
trailer with a 3 liter Aerostar we developed a HUGE transmission leak
while on the road. It didn't leak at all in neutral or idling in gear,
but as soon as you stepped on the gas it just FUMPED fuel. We were
towed to the closest ford dealer (Imlay City Ford) and I asked if they
had a front pump seal in stock - they did - so I went to the service
desk to see if and when they could replace it for me. They said they
needed to rebuild the complete transmission - $2800 and 2 fays - and
they didn't have the parts . I told them they had the seal and that
was all it needed - they said they could get it in at 1PM - the
mechanic said "That's a 7 hour job by the book" - and I told him I was
sure he could do it in 4 - and I'd make sure he got time and a half if
it took him past quitting time at 5:30. When he finished it at 5:28
and it didn't leak he was surprized!!!!!
He didn't position two of the plug wires properly when he
re-assembled it - which caused a problem that surfaced about 2 hours
later - but that's another story !!!!!



  #71   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough



"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:17:00 +1100, "Fred" wrote:



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 9:20 PM, Fred wrote:



Oh, as in someone with training?

Nope, those who choose to specialise in that area.

How did they learn?


By doing it, just like any decent mechanic does.

Came to them in a dream?


Nope.

You made my point. You no longer go to Smokey's CB shop up the road.

Wrong, that is precisely who do specialise in that stuff.

Yep, they learned in a dream on night.


Nope, by doing it.

Yes I have, and got an unlock code for one in one of the
used Mercs that a mate of mine buys off ebay, fixes and
sells for twice what he paid for them, by fixing their fault.


Yes, one person.


Plenty more than one person that even I know.

It isn't just a radio any more. Navigation, cameras, sat reception,
connected services, modems, and more.

Yep, and that's part of the reason its specialists that do most of
the
work.

Exactly, people with some training.

Still wrong, they don't have formal training. they just specialise in
it.

Where did they learn it?


By doing it.

Bull****. My mechanic mate hasn't had any.

OK, a sample of 1 Very scientific.


None of the others I know have either.

If the glass company does not have the instruments you do. Some now
have them, not all do. As the systems become more commonplace they
are
investing in the equipment. Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.

But those operations don't go back to school to learn how to do it.

They use the documentation that comes with it.

WTF do you think that is? A form of training.


Bull**** it is, just like it isnt with any appliance
or the car you buy.

And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years
of formal training before you can work as a mechanic.

I never said 4 years. But a competent shop today has assorted
training
for their certified mechanics.

And the best mechanics don't need that.

Try running a dealership without it


I know one that has done just that.

I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.

In fact I do all the work on my car myself.

Another sample of 1


Plenty of others do that too.


And we wonder why "STEALERSHIPS" have such a bad reputation -
particularly in the unregulated redneck states and why everyone
in the USA seams to be continually bitching about "mechanics" -
because they very seldom actually are dealing with a properly
trained, educated, cerified and regulated "professional" mechanic.


Its no news that plenty of mechanics don't have
a ****ing clue with more difficult faults, even the
ones with 4 years of professional education.

Even you must have noticed in your time in Africa that
there are plenty of very decent mechanics that do fine
without any formal education in mechanics at all.

Even your "ASE Certified" designation
is a bit of a sorry JOKE, by and large.


So its silly to require that before you can work on cars.

ANd as for guys with no training working on their
own cars - BOY, could I tell you some stories!!!!!


Its no news that most don't have any real capacity to
even work out why their lawn mower isnt working!!!!!



  #72   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,560
Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed!

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 19:44:47 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

WTF are you doing in humans-only ngs, you subnormal senile trolling pest
from Oz?

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:
  #73   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,560
Default "Who or What is Rod Speed?"

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:
  #74   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 804
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 2/26/21 9:51 AM, wrote:
On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 9:43:15 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:27 AM, wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:01 AM, micky wrote:
OT Why $7.50 is enough

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1807595.html


"Republican Senator John Thune has rejected an effort from congressional
Democrats to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $15,
pointing to his $6 or less hourly wages that he earned working at a
restaurant as a €œkid€."


Thune graduated from Jones County High School in Murdo, South Dakota in
1979, when a $6 hourly wage €“ adjusted to modern inflation rates €“ would
amount to roughly $23 in 2021 dollars.

But he thinks, or he wants you to think, that if he got by on $6 or
less, people 41 years later should get by on 7.50.

If you don't want minimum wage, don't have minimum skills.


Are you aware that there are people who, no matter how hard they try,
will never have more than minimum skills? The retarded bagger at the
grocery store, for example.

Next you'll be bitching that those minimal-skills people are getting
food stamps because they can't afford to live on minimum wage.

Try not to trip as you step across their dead bodies in the streets.

Cindy Hamilton

Here's the thing Cindy: Every barrel has a top, a middle and a bottom.

My guess is your rose-colored glasses prevent you from seeing that
bottom and accepting that every barrel has one.

OK, you can go back to singing Kumbaya now...

--
Conservatives believe what they see. Liberals see what they believe
  #75   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 719
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 9:45:06 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:51 AM, wrote:
On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 9:43:15 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:27 AM, wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:01 AM, micky wrote:
OT Why $7.50 is enough

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1807595.html


"Republican Senator John Thune has rejected an effort from congressional
Democrats to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $15,
pointing to his $6 or less hourly wages that he earned working at a
restaurant as a €œkid€."


Thune graduated from Jones County High School in Murdo, South Dakota in
1979, when a $6 hourly wage €“ adjusted to modern inflation rates €“ would
amount to roughly $23 in 2021 dollars.

But he thinks, or he wants you to think, that if he got by on $6 or
less, people 41 years later should get by on 7.50.

If you don't want minimum wage, don't have minimum skills.


Are you aware that there are people who, no matter how hard they try,
will never have more than minimum skills? The retarded bagger at the
grocery store, for example.

Next you'll be bitching that those minimal-skills people are getting
food stamps because they can't afford to live on minimum wage.

Try not to trip as you step across their dead bodies in the streets.

Cindy Hamilton

Here's the thing Cindy: Every barrel has a top, a middle and a bottom.


I know that.

My guess is your rose-colored glasses prevent you from seeing that
bottom and accepting that every barrel has one.


Nope, I can accept that. But I'd rather see the bottom of the barrel
paid enough for their labor to live on, rather than sucking at the
public teat. Apparently you like to see your tax dollars pay for
Welfare.

Cindy Hamilton


  #76   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 804
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On 2/27/21 9:51 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 9:45:06 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:51 AM, wrote:
On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 9:43:15 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:27 AM, wrote:
On 2/26/21 9:01 AM, micky wrote:
OT Why $7.50 is enough

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1807595.html


"Republican Senator John Thune has rejected an effort from congressional
Democrats to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $15,
pointing to his $6 or less hourly wages that he earned working at a
restaurant as a €œkid€."


Thune graduated from Jones County High School in Murdo, South Dakota in
1979, when a $6 hourly wage €“ adjusted to modern inflation rates €“ would
amount to roughly $23 in 2021 dollars.

But he thinks, or he wants you to think, that if he got by on $6 or
less, people 41 years later should get by on 7.50.

If you don't want minimum wage, don't have minimum skills.

Are you aware that there are people who, no matter how hard they try,
will never have more than minimum skills? The retarded bagger at the
grocery store, for example.

Next you'll be bitching that those minimal-skills people are getting
food stamps because they can't afford to live on minimum wage.

Try not to trip as you step across their dead bodies in the streets.

Cindy Hamilton

Here's the thing Cindy: Every barrel has a top, a middle and a bottom.


I know that.

My guess is your rose-colored glasses prevent you from seeing that
bottom and accepting that every barrel has one.


Nope, I can accept that. But I'd rather see the bottom of the barrel
paid enough for their labor to live on, rather than sucking at the
public teat. Apparently you like to see your tax dollars pay for
Welfare.

Cindy Hamilton

Let them eat cake...

--
When did Western society decide that instead of helping mentally ill
people, we should indulge their delusions 100% and allow them to set
policy for the rest of us?
  #77   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

In article ,
says...

Makes no sense to require formal qualifications.


I'lL call you on your BS
The OBDII tells you what reading is out of spec. That is ALL it tells
you. It takes an educated professional to know what can cause that
reading to be wrong and how to test and PROVE what the problem is
instead of throwing half a dozeh expensive components at the car, then
cross their fingers and hope they didn't STILL miss the real problem.
That's why the "pinpoint tests" in the factory manual for a given
error code can cover 7 pages in the factory manual - and why the print
version of a typical factory manual con be over 6 inches thick. (and
cost several hundred dollars - and why they are virtually all now in
electronic format indexed 7 ways to sunday) Many won't fit on a CD any
more - and some require double layer DVDs.
Servicing variable valve timing and gasoline direct injection, not to
mention computer controlled transmissions and turbocharged engines and
anti-lock brakes, and active colission avoidance, and traction control
- and canbus controlled door locking systems - and even tail-lights
with computers in them -
Good luck sucker of you don't have a well trained mechanic working on
it. Just the electrical wiring will blow the mind of most "mr fixits"
- whenthe doors lockand unlock by themselves driving down the road -
or the alarm goes off in the middle of the night - or the windows go
up or down by themselves (or don't when you want them to) or the car
won't start or the doors won't unlock (or lock) from the FOB - or the
airbag light comes on - and particularly when the problems are
intermittent - - -. There are no "adjustments" any more - sure. They
require less scheduled maintenance - for sure - but those are the
SIMPLE jobs that the uneducated guy with grease under his fingers and
a $50 tool kit could do.




Engines are getting more complicated all the time. I just bought a John
Deere x590 lawn tractor. The engine on it is fuel injected. All kinds
of electrical wiring to make it work. That is just for about a 25 hp 2
cylinder engine. While it would not take a 2 or 4 year college type
course on that, I would think that some few days of training from the
factory would be needed to work on it.

As to cars I am sure most anyone could do the simple jobs like brakes
and plug and light bulb changes, but once anything gets into the
electrical system it will take a lot of training and skill to solve the
problem. I bought a 1972 Dodge Demon. It had some kind of electrical
system for the engine that was relative new. That car about once every
week would not start. The engine would turn over, but would not fire
off at all. Could do it to the battery would almost run down and
finally it would start except about once a month it had to be towed in
as it would not start. As it was a manual transmisssion funny thing was
that after the battery would almost run down, it could be started by
puahing it off very easy.
I had it back a number of times and finally at about 18,000 miles traded
it in for another car. I had made a mistake of paying cash for that
car. Had I not , I would have let it go back after the 2 nd month I had
it.
  #78   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,279
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 5:59:47 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/26/2021 4:42 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.

That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"

And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored vintage
car.


I know people like that too. Some could not change the radio on a new
car though, an a lot of the other electronics.


That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.

Some won't touch them. Evidently you have not seen the complexity of
these units and everything they control. It isn't just a radio any
more. Navigation, cameras, sat reception, connected services, modems,
and more.


He doesnt know because his vehicle that he uses to feed the kangaroos is
a 1965 pickup.





You don't need 4 years but you need more than the old days.


Thats very arguable indeed given that there is very little
to do on modern cars now, just change the oil, redo the
brake pads etc as required, change the plugs etc. Even
with fault finding, its much easier to do now with the
OBD2 telling you which sensor has failed quite a bit
of the time and no timing etc to do anymore.

Makes no sense to require formal qualifications.

Without some training and qualifications you probably won't get a job at
a dealership aside from changing tires. Have you looked at some of the
battery connectors? They are not like on your '72 Chevy any more.

Where would you start looking for an error on the Automatic emergency
braking system? or the Lane Keep assist. How about lining up the
cameras after a windshield change? Some of the windshield companies
will send you to the dealer for calibration after they change the glass.
Do you know how to do it?


Exactly. He thinks that because many times it's a simple sensor, that
means you don't need any qualifications. Further, many times those simple
sensors require considerable work and disassembly to get to, where if
you don't know what you're doing, you could easily screw up. And many
times the codes that show up, don't point to a specific sensor, an example
is a lean code. Or take airbags for example. Having a code for the drivers
airbag for example. I see people online immediately saying they need a
new airbag, where to get one cheap, etc. But most times with that code
it's not the airbag that's the problem. It takes some skills and smarts to
know how to diagnose it and also what not to do to screw it up more or even
set the airbag off and kill yourself.

I remember taking a Pontiac that had an AC problem to a place that
specializes in auto AC. They had the car for two days, told me they figured
out it was a bad switch in the panel. When I drove away, the AC worked,
but the check engine light was on. I didn't know what to do, figured they
probably caused it, but would deny it, etc. I already had the service manual
for the car, so I decided to check it out myself. Back then you could short
two pins on the diagnostic connector and it would flash a code sequence on
the instrument panel. The code indicated a problem with the coolant temp
sensor. Seems unrelated, right? So I trace it down, there is no ground coming
from the main engine computer to the sensor. That was very bad news.
But fortunately the module was easy to open up, which I did. Didn't take long
to fine a blown out circuit trace on the PC board. I bridged it with some solder,
put it back together, problem solved.

So, how did this happen? Obviously some incompetent hack trying to diagnose
the AC was jumpering 12V here and there and blew it out. I was very fortunate
to be able to diagnose and fix it. Imagine if I took it back, was the typical customer.
You think they were going to admit what they did and pay for a $700 computer?
The dope that did it may not even realize he did it, but you'd think he must have
seen some spark when he tried to connect this to that.

  #79   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 20:59:13 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/26/2021 8:28 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 4:42 PM, Fred wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/26/2021 1:12 PM, Fred wrote:


Yes, I know many states do not regulate automotive technicians
with a mandatory licensing system - but they SHOULD.

That's completely mad. Anyone with real mechanical skills doesn't
need 4 years of study to do a decent job on modern cars.

And I know quite a few "mechanics" with university degrees
who went "back to school" to get a trade after their university
degrees didn't get them a "job"

And I know quite a few mechanics that never need to go back to
school to turn a pile of rusting metal into a fully restored
vintage car.

I know people like that too.Â* Some could not change the radio on a
new car though, an a lot of the other electronics.

That stuff is normally left to car radio specialists.


Some won't touch them.


The specialists do.


Oh, as in someone with training? You made my point. You no longer go
to Smokey's CB shop up the road.


I am not sure what trick is necessary to install a car entertainment
system. Virtually any car made in this century is pre wired for it and
DIN mount systems just snap in. You will need the right adapter
harness to connect a 3d party system to the OEM harness but this
pretty easy stuff.
The "radio" (nav, mp3 player, cd/dvd or whatever) is a FRU. (Field
Replaceable Unit)
I doubt anyone actually fixes them these days, at least not as a
business. You don't see a TV repair shop in every strip mall these
days either.
  #80   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default OT Why $7.50 is enough

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 23:51:48 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:47:26 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Sometimes the minimum skilled jobs are really necessary and should pay
more. Take the garbage collection. Not much skill to drive the truck
and pick up the cans.

Bad example They could be making $40,000-$70,000 a year depending on
where they are, plus bennies.




It does all depend on where one lives. I would guess that in some
cities of California or New York the 40 to 70 thousand may put one on
the lower pay scale. Where I live that would be a very good paying job.
The average wage is mostly under $ 18 per hour.

What is difficult is that I guess many things cost the same in all parts
of the country not counting the homes and taxes.

It used to be that grocery stores around here hired people from 16 to 20
years old to stock the shelves and bag groceries. We even carried them
to the cars and put them in the cars. Now there are some that just
operate the cash registers and put the groceries in the bags. The fast
food places hired the same age group for most of the jobs. Now those
jobs are taken over by grown ups that are trying to make a living at it.

From what they are saying if the wages go up very much the fast food
places will soon go to a vending machine type operation. More jobs lost
to automation.

Minimum wage is $14.25 in Ontario and the fast food restaurants are
still doing fine (barely surviving through COVID but not due to wage
costs) A McDonalds "manager" makes about $32000 a year. Student
minimum wage is $12.75?
Average fast food worker pay is $15 an hour in Canada. (not enough)
Tim Hortons starts at about $14.25. Dairy Queen pay's $15. Wendy's
pays $15.73 for a "shift manager".


That is a big part of the problem. Bumping up the minimum wage does
not lift all boats. It just compresses the wage scale. If the raise
from being a starting fryer cleaner, floor mopper to shift manager is
only 73 cents it makes it hard to motivate your employees to get
better and your turnover rate is horrendous. That "$32,000 a year
manager" is probably exempt and works way more than 40 hours a week
for a straight salary, not hourly, making his "$16 an hour" actually
less than the floor mopper makes.
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shower head - why, why, why? :-) gareth UK diy 7 May 22nd 15 10:51 PM
O/T: Why, Why, Why Gramp's shop[_2_] Woodworking 0 April 20th 13 09:54 PM
Is Grundfos ups 15-50 man enough for 15 year old 4 bed detached 8mm Microbore CH system Moonshine UK diy 23 December 10th 03 04:03 PM
Ceiling - enough strength? NorwichLad UK diy 8 August 5th 03 12:14 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"