Hello,

I'd love some advice regarding ceiling fans. I am buying a new house
which has no central air and no ceiling fans. Central air is too
expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
cooling. Downstairs doesn't present a problem, but upstairs the
ceilings are just 7 feet high. There are three rooms upstairs =
15x15, 12x10 and 10x8. Are ceiling fans an option here? I've heard
about the 'hugger' models, but are they going to be effective,
espcially in the smaller room? If I do put them in, what do you
suggest for a blade length?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Take Care,
Marta

Marta Pia wrote:
Hello,

I'd love some advice regarding ceiling fans. I am buying a new house
which has no central air and no ceiling fans. Central air is too
expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
cooling. Downstairs doesn't present a problem, but upstairs the
ceilings are just 7 feet high. There are three rooms upstairs =
15x15, 12x10 and 10x8. Are ceiling fans an option here? I've heard
about the 'hugger' models, but are they going to be effective,
espcially in the smaller room? If I do put them in, what do you
suggest for a blade length?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Take Care,
Marta

Frankly I think ceiling fans are overrated. They can be convenient in
some situations and you may well have that situation downstairs, but with 7
foot ceilings, I don't think I would want one, even a hugger.

Any number of appliance fans are made. I suggest considering some sort
of fan designed to sit on the floor. Depending on your location, you may
want a window A/C for a bed room. I really hate trying to sleep when it is
warm and humid. A mobile fan will allow you to try it out in different
rooms so you can decide if it will work and if so you can buy more like it.

In any case good luck and stay cool.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Marta Pia" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

Central air is too
expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
cooling.

Ceiling fans don't help with cooling. They circulate the hot air and
sometimes the draft may make you feel a tad cooler if you are in the moving
air.

Much more beneficial, especially at night, is a fan to exhaust the hot air
and draw in the cool air. Whole house fans can do a good job. Fans don't
dehumidify either. You may want a small AC in the bedroom so at least you
can sleep well.
Ed

"Marta Pia" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

I'd love some advice regarding ceiling fans. I am buying a new house
which has no central air and no ceiling fans. Central air is too
expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
cooling. Downstairs doesn't present a problem, but upstairs the
ceilings are just 7 feet high. There are three rooms upstairs =
15x15, 12x10 and 10x8. Are ceiling fans an option here? I've heard
about the 'hugger' models, but are they going to be effective,
espcially in the smaller room? If I do put them in, what do you
suggest for a blade length?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Take Care,
Marta

7 foot ceiling? Yikes. I will not put an fan in unless there is 7'6"
clearance from the finished product. Even an hugger will not achieve this
in your situation.
Surely you mean 8 foot ceilings.

Not planning for the a/c now will cost an fortune later. At least install
the ducts and registers to an central location.

I agree with the whole house ventatulator. I grew up with one of those,
until Mom wanted a/c so she could sleep in the hot muggy nights of southern
Iowa


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 9/6/2004

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Marta Pia" wrote:

...I was considering putting ceiling fans in all the major rooms
to improve air circulation and cooling.

Where is this house?

Ceiling fans don't help with cooling.

They do, IMO, especially at night, helping a whole house fan or natural
ventilation. A narrow cool air stream won't cool the mass of a house much
at night. Cool night air needs to scrub the thermal mass of the walls.

...the draft may make you feel a tad cooler if you are in the moving air.

It can make you feel a LOT cooler :-) See the ASHRAE 55-2004 standard.

Nick

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
..
Ceiling fans don't help with cooling. ...
Ed

I think this tends to be a local thing. In some climates they seem to
work well and in others they are worthless. In recent years I believe they
have been over sold and many people in areas that they are not very helpful
for put them in and now a few years later, seldom use them.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

I think those who are replying negatively are possibly a little too rich and
spoiled

I have a moral problem with using too much energy, and therefore I do not
have, never have had, nor ever will have, air conditioning. I do have it in
my car, as it is more efficient to drive with the windows closed, but even
then use the "fresh air" vent option as much as possible.

That said, I've installed ceiling fans in most every room of both of the
houses I've owned over the last 17 years. I LOVE them. They work great. I
even installed one in the galley part (used to be a pantry, of all things)
of my 5 foot wide by 9 foot long "kitchen". It's a little 30" model, and of
course a "hugger". It helps enormously!

I've learned to love to hear the outside noises. I feel connected to the
world at large, and in touch with what is going on around me. I am often
the first neighbor to notice a problem, as others are behind closed doors
and windows and hear little or nothing!

The crickets at night and the birds in the morning are music to my ears.

I've had a whole house exhaust fan, and it works great, too. But it died
two years ago, and I've lived without it just fine.

BTW, I'm in hot and humid Baltimore, Maryland.

"Marta Pia" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

I'd love some advice regarding ceiling fans. I am buying a new house
which has no central air and no ceiling fans. Central air is too
expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
cooling. Downstairs doesn't present a problem, but upstairs the
ceilings are just 7 feet high. There are three rooms upstairs =
15x15, 12x10 and 10x8. Are ceiling fans an option here? I've heard
about the 'hugger' models, but are they going to be effective,
espcially in the smaller room? If I do put them in, what do you
suggest for a blade length?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Take Care,
Marta

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:50:27 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
..
Ceiling fans don't help with cooling. ...
Ed

I think this tends to be a local thing. In some climates they seem to
work well and in others they are worthless. In recent years I believe they
have been over sold and many people in areas that they are not very helpful
for put them in and now a few years later, seldom use them.


I use my ceiling fan (in the computer room) almost everyday. I put
it on when returning from my daily workout or after bathing. It is a
blessing when the A/C needs repair. I have a small four-paddle
ceiling fan in the small room. All my ceiling fans are hard wired to
a switch at the door. I turn it off when leaving the room.

Phisherman wrote:

...All my ceiling fans are hard wired to a switch at the door.
I turn it off when leaving the room.

Good idea, except to help with night ventilation. FSEC planned a motion
detector for the lovely Gossamer Windward II fan, but it never got
implemented, perhaps because the blades or fan-wiggling triggered it.
You might put one on the wall.

Nick

"Betsy" -0 wrote in message
...
Thanks for the advice on the fan. How quiet are those window fans? My
old one (was really old, too--when I took it apart to try to fix it the
insulation on the wires just fell to pieces!) positively roared--and
vibrated the attic floor, too.

Most are fairly quiet but there will be some noise. Keep in mind, the fan
does not have to be in the same room as you. Proper window management can
get a good draft drawing the cool outside air in from the other end of the
house.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

"Betsy" -0 wrote in message
...
| Thanks for the advice on the fan. How quiet are those window fans? My
old
| one (was really old, too--when I took it apart to try to fix it the
| insulation on the wires just fell to pieces!) positively roared--and
| vibrated the attic floor, too.
|
I have this window fan (WCW-1616) and like it very much. It's quiet,
powerful, reversible and is designed to be mounted inside the window frame
so the window can be shut while fan is installed. I also like the thermostat
control that automatically shuts off fan when the air is sufficiently
cooled.

http://www.lakewoodeng.com/html/list_window.html

Hello,

Thank you for all your excellent comments. The new house is over 100
years old and is near Pittsburgh and I wish I were kidding about the 7
foot upstairs ceilings. My old house in Eastern PA does have ceiling
fans in just about every room and I am a huge proponent. Although
I'll agree they don't do the job on the really humid days, they are
very useful for the simply hot days and for air circulation. I do
plan to put a window AC unit in the main bedroom for the worst of the
days and an exaust fan is an excellent suggestion to assist in
cooling.

I think I will test out one hugger ceiling fan with no light fixtures
for the bedroom. If I find it works out here, I might install in the
smaller rooms before next summer. If not, then I won't have gone
through the expense.

Thanks again,
Marta

Betsy -0 wrote:

How quiet are those window fans?

Grainger high med low speed

4TM66 $73 65 52 49 dB
5850 4400 3240 cfm
90 76 61 watts
65 58 53 cfm/W

3C614 $183 64 59 50 dB
8900 7627 5545 cfm
170 145 115 watts
52 53 48 cfm/W

You might buy 2 of the cheaper ones.

Nick

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
..
Ceiling fans don't help with cooling. ...
Ed

I think this tends to be a local thing. In some climates they seem to
work well and in others they are worthless. In recent years I believe
they
have been over sold and many people in areas that they are not very
helpful
for put them in and now a few years later, seldom use them.

When run slowly in reverse, ceiling fans can lift cooler air from the floor
upward. Too fast seems to defeat the purpose, based on my observations, but
a slow speed definitely makes a noticeable difference.

Now, the trick is getting your average walkin' around slob to NOTICE the
instruction manual in the box the fan came in, and then actually READ the
manual.

Whatever you decide, do NOT under any circumstances buy a Hunter fan, unless
you think it's cute to support slobs who sell awful products. Get yourself a
Casablanca and you'll be happy forever, at least with the fan purchase.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
| Whatever you decide, do NOT under any circumstances buy a Hunter fan,
unless
| you think it's cute to support slobs who sell awful products. Get yourself
a
| Casablanca and you'll be happy forever, at least with the fan purchase.
|
I've had Hunter fans for years and have never had a problems with them.
They're priced moderately, last forever, are quiet and are the easiest fan I
know of to install. I'd be curious to know the origins of your dislike for
Hunter fans and perhaps some documentation of your opinion. Just how do know
all people who sell Hunter fans are "slobs"? Me thinks you sound like a
disgruntled ex-Hunter employee (or perhaps a current Casablanca employee).

my ceiling fan runs 24/7/365. At low and in reverse in winter. makes a
HUGE difference in the even temp of the bedroom.

--
Totus Tuus
Claudia (take out no spam to reply)

"tgilb" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
| Whatever you decide, do NOT under any circumstances buy a Hunter fan,
unless
| you think it's cute to support slobs who sell awful products. Get
yourself
a
| Casablanca and you'll be happy forever, at least with the fan purchase.
|
I've had Hunter fans for years and have never had a problems with them.
They're priced moderately, last forever, are quiet and are the easiest fan
I
know of to install. I'd be curious to know the origins of your dislike for
Hunter fans and perhaps some documentation of your opinion. Just how do
know
all people who sell Hunter fans are "slobs"? Me thinks you sound like a
disgruntled ex-Hunter employee (or perhaps a current Casablanca employee).



Nope. Spend some time reading the archives of this newsgroup and you'll
understand why Hunter fans are inferior.

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:57:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:






Nope. Spend some time reading the archives of this newsgroup and you'll
understand why Hunter fans are inferior.

Or are you thinking of Hampton Bay?

"fran" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:57:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:






Nope. Spend some time reading the archives of this newsgroup and you'll
understand why Hunter fans are inferior.

Or are you thinking of Hampton Bay?


No. I've seen a number of discussions here in which Hunter owners had to
replace switches, and found those switches were of a type that a sane person
wouldn't consider compatible for anything but a flashlight. If the
manufacturer will pull that stunt, it's safe to assume that anything goes.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
|
| "fran" wrote in message
| news | On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:57:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
| wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Nope. Spend some time reading the archives of this newsgroup and you'll
| understand why Hunter fans are inferior.
|
| Or are you thinking of Hampton Bay?
|
|
| No. I've seen a number of discussions here in which Hunter owners had to
| replace switches, and found those switches were of a type that a sane
person
| wouldn't consider compatible for anything but a flashlight. If the
| manufacturer will pull that stunt, it's safe to assume that anything goes.
|
Since you're the second person I've seen bashing Hunter fans lately with no
more documentation than "I've seen a number of discussions" I figured I'd
try and actually do a little leg work on the subject. Below are 3 sites that
give (mostly) favorable reviews to Hunter Fans (yes, I'm aware these sites
are also selling these products but also have consumer reviews).

http://www.dealtime.com/xPP-Electric..._list__ceiling
-----------------
http://www.epinions.com/Fans-Style_C...and_Hunter_Fan
-----------------
http://products.consumerguide.com/cp.../prod/id/11141

Here is a Google NG search and while I didn't check every post I didn't see
many (any?) posts complaining about the quality of Hunter Fans. I have
personally used and installed many Hunters over the years and have found
them to be quiet, very easy to install, reasonably priced and dependable.
I'd be interested in any documentation you have that disputes this.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=hu...8&start=0&sa=N

"tgilb" wrote in message
k.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
|
| "fran" wrote in message
| news | On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:57:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
| wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Nope. Spend some time reading the archives of this newsgroup and
you'll
| understand why Hunter fans are inferior.
|
| Or are you thinking of Hampton Bay?
|
|
| No. I've seen a number of discussions here in which Hunter owners had to
| replace switches, and found those switches were of a type that a sane
person
| wouldn't consider compatible for anything but a flashlight. If the
| manufacturer will pull that stunt, it's safe to assume that anything
goes.
|
Since you're the second person I've seen bashing Hunter fans lately with
no
more documentation than "I've seen a number of discussions" I figured I'd
try and actually do a little leg work on the subject. Below are 3 sites
that
give (mostly) favorable reviews to Hunter Fans (yes, I'm aware these sites
are also selling these products but also have consumer reviews).

Did any of the reviewers own the fans long enough to have to perform
internal service on them? If not, the reviews are not relevant to long term
ownership.

"tgilb" wrote in message
k.net...
|
| "Doug Kanter" wrote in message
| ...
| |
| | "fran" wrote in message
| | news | | On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:57:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
| | wrote:
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| | Nope. Spend some time reading the archives of this newsgroup and
you'll
| | understand why Hunter fans are inferior.
| |
| | Or are you thinking of Hampton Bay?
| |
| |
| | No. I've seen a number of discussions here in which Hunter owners had to
| | replace switches, and found those switches were of a type that a sane
| person
| | wouldn't consider compatible for anything but a flashlight. If the
| | manufacturer will pull that stunt, it's safe to assume that anything
goes.
| |
| Since you're the second person I've seen bashing Hunter fans lately with
no more documentation than "I've seen a number of discussions"
snip

Excuse my replying to my own post but after a little research I realize I
need to make a correction. The sentence above should read:

Since you're the "only" person I've seen bashing Hunter fans lately with no
more documentation than "I've seen a number of discussions"

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
| "tgilb" wrote in message
| k.net...
|
| "Doug Kanter" wrote in message
| ...
| |
| | "fran" wrote in message
| | news | | On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:57:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
| | wrote:
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| | Nope. Spend some time reading the archives of this newsgroup and
| you'll
| | understand why Hunter fans are inferior.
| |
| | Or are you thinking of Hampton Bay?
| |
| |
| | No. I've seen a number of discussions here in which Hunter owners had
to
| | replace switches, and found those switches were of a type that a sane
| person
| | wouldn't consider compatible for anything but a flashlight. If the
| | manufacturer will pull that stunt, it's safe to assume that anything
| goes.
| |
| Since you're the second person I've seen bashing Hunter fans lately with
| no
| more documentation than "I've seen a number of discussions" I figured
I'd
| try and actually do a little leg work on the subject. Below are 3 sites
| that
| give (mostly) favorable reviews to Hunter Fans (yes, I'm aware these
sites
| are also selling these products but also have consumer reviews).
|
| Did any of the reviewers own the fans long enough to have to perform
| internal service on them? If not, the reviews are not relevant to long
term
| ownership.
|
I obviously can't speak for the reviewers but none of the 4 Hunters
installed in my home when I bought it 15 years ago have needed any service
or any of the at least 50 or so I've installed in homes and business's over
the last 20 years have either (that I've been made aware of anyway).

"tgilb" wrote in message
k.net...

| Did any of the reviewers own the fans long enough to have to perform
| internal service on them? If not, the reviews are not relevant to long
term
| ownership.
|
I obviously can't speak for the reviewers but none of the 4 Hunters
installed in my home when I bought it 15 years ago have needed any service
or any of the at least 50 or so I've installed in homes and business's
over
the last 20 years have either (that I've been made aware of anyway).



Are the fans you installed 15 years ago made in the same country where
they're now made?

"tgilb" wrote in message
k.net...


Excuse my replying to my own post but after a little research I realize I
need to make a correction. The sentence above should read:

Since you're the "only" person I've seen bashing Hunter fans lately with
no
more documentation than "I've seen a number of discussions"

Example: A user here commented that the replacement switch (installed in the
fan body itself) was the type which required pushing wires into holes. That
type of part has no place in an AC powered device, no matter WHAT
Underwriters Labs may say, and no matter WHAT electrical codes might permit.
The only reason a manufacturer would use them would be to save time on the
assembly line. That makes me wonder what other shortcuts they took.

Doug Kanter wrote:

Example: A user here commented that the replacement switch
(installed in the fan body itself) was the type which required
pushing wires into holes. That type of part has no place in an
AC powered device, no matter WHAT Underwriters Labs may say, and
no matter WHAT electrical codes might permit.

Whew! What fantasy world do *you* live in?

The only reason a manufacturer would use them would be to save
time on the assembly line.

Duhhhhhh!

That makes me wonder what other shortcuts they took.

You keep looking for that ceiling fan containing switches with
screw terminals and wire loops wrapped around them. You're
going to get awful warm.

--
The real Tom Pendergast [ So if you meet me, have some courtesy,
aka I-zheet M'drurz [ have some sympathy, and some taste.
Accept no substitutes! [ Use all your well-learned politesse,
$1 to Mick for the .sig ---[ or I'll lay your soul to waste.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
|
| "tgilb" wrote in message
| k.net...
|
|
| Excuse my replying to my own post but after a little research I realize
I
| need to make a correction. The sentence above should read:
|
| Since you're the "only" person I've seen bashing Hunter fans lately with
| no
| more documentation than "I've seen a number of discussions"
|
| Example: A user here commented that the replacement switch (installed in
the
| fan body itself) was the type which required pushing wires into holes.
That
| type of part has no place in an AC powered device, no matter WHAT
| Underwriters Labs may say, and no matter WHAT electrical codes might
permit.
| The only reason a manufacturer would use them would be to save time on the
| assembly line. That makes me wonder what other shortcuts they took.
|
You imply you know more about safety and electrical engineering than UL and
building codes do. I, on the other hand, readily admit to being far less
knowledgeable about these subjects than these agency's and that being the
case I feel I cannot contribute anything else to this discussion and bow to
your obviously superior wealth of knowledge on the subject.

"tgilb" wrote in message
news

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
|
| "tgilb" wrote in message
| k.net...
|
|
| Excuse my replying to my own post but after a little research I
realize
I
| need to make a correction. The sentence above should read:
|
| Since you're the "only" person I've seen bashing Hunter fans lately
with
| no
| more documentation than "I've seen a number of discussions"
|
| Example: A user here commented that the replacement switch (installed in
the
| fan body itself) was the type which required pushing wires into holes.
That
| type of part has no place in an AC powered device, no matter WHAT
| Underwriters Labs may say, and no matter WHAT electrical codes might
permit.
| The only reason a manufacturer would use them would be to save time on
the
| assembly line. That makes me wonder what other shortcuts they took.
|
You imply you know more about safety and electrical engineering than UL
and
building codes do. I, on the other hand, readily admit to being far less
knowledgeable about these subjects than these agency's and that being the
case I feel I cannot contribute anything else to this discussion and bow
to
your obviously superior wealth of knowledge on the subject.



1) Are you saying you've never seen an electrical device that was a piece of
crap, but still had the UL mark on it?

2) Do you know that building codes allow the use of wire nuts in situations
where they're completely inappropriate?