Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
Looking to install some new smoke detectors. I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located.
I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On 11/29/2020 11:07 PM, Sid 03 wrote:
Looking to install some new smoke detectors. I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. My house has combo units installed by the builder. No particular opinion on them., they seem to work. In my last house they were separate. One question though, give where you plan to locate the CO detectors you are taking precaution not to die in your sleep at night. Do you thi k it is better to fall asleep on the sofa and die fro CO there? There should be one on each floor including the basement. Not right next to the heater though. If you have a garage in the house put one near the door to the garage. People have left cars running and died. |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On 11/29/20 10:07 PM, Sid 03 wrote:
Looking to install some new smoke detectors. I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. This is what Consumer Reports has to say. They haven't tested them for a couple years. This is as of June 2018. Consumer Reports wasn't satisfied with any combination smoke and carbon monoxide detectors they tested then. These are the dual sensor smoke alarms. First Alert 3120B $30 Score 91 Kidde P12010 $30 Score 91 First Alert SA320CN $23 Score 87 Kidde P19010 $25 Score 87 Ionization smoke alarms. First Alert SA9120BCN $25 Score 55 Kidde KN-COSM-1B $35 Score 55 Note 1 Kidde RF-SM-DC $40 Score 53 First Alert SA303 $12 Score 51 First Alert SA304LCN $24 Score 51 Photoelectric smoke alarms First Alert 7010B $25 Score 55 Nest Protect $129 Score 55 Note 1,2 Nest Protect $129 Score 55 Note 1,2 First Alert SA501CN $60 Score 53 Note 2 First Alert SC051CN $70 Score 53 Note 1,2 1 Combination smoke/carbon-monoxide alarm, also rated as CO alarm. 2 Interconnects wirelessly. |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On 11/30/2020 5:20 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 11/29/20 10:07 PM, Sid 03 wrote: Looking to install some new smoke detectors.Â* I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combinationÂ* smoke and COÂ* detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* This is what Consumer Reports has to say.Â* They haven't tested them for a couple years. Â*Â*Â*Â* This is as ofÂ* June 2018. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Consumer Reports wasn't satisfied with any combination smoke and carbon monoxide detectors they tested then. Â*Â* These are the dual sensor smoke alarms. First AlertÂ* 3120BÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $30Â*Â* Score 91 Kidde P12010Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $30Â*Â* Score 91 First Alert SA320CNÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $23Â*Â* Score 87 Kidde P19010Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $25Â*Â* Score 87 Â* Ionization smoke alarms. First Alert SA9120BCNÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $25 Score 55 Kidde KN-COSM-1BÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $35 Score 55Â*Â* Note 1 Kidde RF-SM-DCÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $40 Score 53 First Alert SA303Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $12 Score 51 First Alert SA304LCNÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $24 Score 51 Photoelectric smoke alarms First Alert 7010BÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $25 Score 55 Nest ProtectÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â* $129 Score 55Â*Â*Â* Note 1,2 Nest ProtectÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â* $129 Score 55Â*Â*Â* Note 1,2 First AlertÂ* SA501CNÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $60Â* Score 53 Note 2 First AlertÂ* SC051CNÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $70Â* Score 53 Note 1,2 1 Combination smoke/carbon-monoxide alarm, also rated as CO alarm. 2 Interconnects wirelessly. I knew that CO detectors had a finite lifetime, 7-10 years, and now note that smoke detectors are recommended to be replaced by 10 years. Still not sure a combo appeals to me since I got over 20 years out of two smoke detectors before I replaced them. |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 07:39:52 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:
On 11/30/2020 5:20 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: On 11/29/20 10:07 PM, Sid 03 wrote: Looking to install some new smoke detectors.* I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination* smoke and CO* detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. ******** This is what Consumer Reports has to say.* They haven't tested them for a couple years. **** This is as of* June 2018. ***** Consumer Reports wasn't satisfied with any combination smoke and carbon monoxide detectors they tested then. ** These are the dual sensor smoke alarms. First Alert* 3120B*************************************** $30** Score 91 Kidde P12010******************************************** * $30** Score 91 First Alert SA320CN********************************** $23** Score 87 Kidde P19010******************************************** * $25** Score 87 * Ionization smoke alarms. First Alert SA9120BCN****************************** $25 Score 55 Kidde KN-COSM-1B********************************** $35 Score 55** Note 1 Kidde RF-SM-DC*************************************** $40 Score 53 First Alert SA303**************************************** $12 Score 51 First Alert SA304LCN******************************** $24 Score 51 Photoelectric smoke alarms First Alert 7010B***************************************** $25 Score 55 Nest Protect******************************************* ****** $129 Score 55*** Note 1,2 Nest Protect******************************************* ****** $129 Score 55*** Note 1,2 First Alert* SA501CN********************************* $60* Score 53 Note 2 First Alert* SC051CN********************************* $70* Score 53 Note 1,2 1 Combination smoke/carbon-monoxide alarm, also rated as CO alarm. 2 Interconnects wirelessly. I knew that CO detectors had a finite lifetime, 7-10 years, and now note that smoke detectors are recommended to be replaced by 10 years. Still not sure a combo appeals to me since I got over 20 years out of two smoke detectors before I replaced them. I think the 10 year "lifetime" is a recommendation that will provide acceptable reliability - beyond that, the device may still be OK but the crucial reliability begins to decrease. I'd be OK stretching it to 12 years, not 20. John T. |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 5:20:17 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 11/29/20 10:07 PM, Sid 03 wrote: Looking to install some new smoke detectors. I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. This is what Consumer Reports has to say. They haven't tested them for a couple years. This is as of June 2018. Consumer Reports wasn't satisfied with any combination smoke and carbon monoxide detectors they tested then. These are the dual sensor smoke alarms. First Alert 3120B $30 Score 91 Kidde P12010 $30 Score 91 First Alert SA320CN $23 Score 87 Kidde P19010 $25 Score 87 Ionization smoke alarms. First Alert SA9120BCN $25 Score 55 Kidde KN-COSM-1B $35 Score 55 Note 1 Kidde RF-SM-DC $40 Score 53 First Alert SA303 $12 Score 51 First Alert SA304LCN $24 Score 51 Photoelectric smoke alarms First Alert 7010B $25 Score 55 Nest Protect $129 Score 55 Note 1,2 Nest Protect $129 Score 55 Note 1,2 First Alert SA501CN $60 Score 53 Note 2 First Alert SC051CN $70 Score 53 Note 1,2 1 Combination smoke/carbon-monoxide alarm, also rated as CO alarm. 2 Interconnects wirelessly. I don't understand the scoring. The combo ones are all way higher than the smoke only. Does that mean that the scores for the dual units were a number for smoke plus a number for CO so those numbers don't directly compare? Did they have some explanation or reasoning as to why the dual units were not as good? |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
Sid 03 expressed precisely :
Looking to install some new smoke detectors. I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. CO is heavier than 'air'. Smoke is generally in hot air and rises.-- follow their instructions for placement. |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
|
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On 11/30/2020 8:41 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
Sid 03 expressed precisely : Looking to install some new smoke detectors.* I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO* detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors.** Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. CO is heavier than 'air'. Smoke is generally in hot air and rises.-- follow their instructions for placement. Heavier? CO 28.01 g/mol N2 28.0134 g/mol O2 32.00 g/mol |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
Frank was thinking very hard :
On 11/30/2020 8:41 AM, FromTheRafters wrote: Sid 03 expressed precisely : Looking to install some new smoke detectors.* I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO* detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors.** Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. CO is heavier than 'air'. Smoke is generally in hot air and rises.-- follow their instructions for placement. Heavier? CO 28.01 g/mol N2 28.0134 g/mol O2 32.00 g/mol I stand corrected. Smoke rises, and CO, generally, does not. |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
In FromTheRafters writes:
[snip] CO is heavier than 'air'. Smoke is generally in hot air and rises.-- follow their instructions for placement. Carbon Monoxide has an atomic, well molecular, weight of Carbon [12] + Oxygeb [16] == 28 Air is a mix of lots of stuff, but if we just look at nitrogen, which is 78 or so percent of it, N2 = [14 times 2] = 28 plus, of course, these gases don't remain as discrete entities but mix in with each other. So CO is going to be pretty much diffused throught the air. -- __________________________________________________ ___ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
danny burstein submitted this idea :
In FromTheRafters writes: [snip] CO is heavier than 'air'. Smoke is generally in hot air and rises.-- follow their instructions for placement. Carbon Monoxide has an atomic, well molecular, weight of Carbon [12] + Oxygeb [16] == 28 Air is a mix of lots of stuff, but if we just look at nitrogen, which is 78 or so percent of it, N2 = [14 times 2] = 28 plus, of course, these gases don't remain as discrete entities but mix in with each other. So CO is going to be pretty much diffused throught the air. Yes, thanks to you and Frank for making this clear. |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 9:42:56 AM UTC-6, FromTheRafters wrote:
danny burstein submitted this idea : In FromTheRafters writes: [snip] CO is heavier than 'air'. Smoke is generally in hot air and rises.-- follow their instructions for placement. Carbon Monoxide has an atomic, well molecular, weight of Carbon [12] + Oxygeb [16] == 28 Air is a mix of lots of stuff, but if we just look at nitrogen, which is 78 or so percent of it, N2 = [14 times 2] = 28 plus, of course, these gases don't remain as discrete entities but mix in with each other. So CO is going to be pretty much diffused throught the air. Yes, thanks to you and Frank for making this clear. Thanks for all that info. What about the interconnection wire ? Does that have to be the same gauge as the other wires in the box ? I believe the harness is 18 gauge. Why can't I just run a piece of bell wire between the detectors ? |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
Sid 03 has brought this to us :
On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 9:42:56 AM UTC-6, FromTheRafters wrote: danny burstein submitted this idea : In FromTheRafters writes: [snip] CO is heavier than 'air'. Smoke is generally in hot air and rises.-- follow their instructions for placement. Carbon Monoxide has an atomic, well molecular, weight of Carbon [12] + Oxygeb [16] == 28 Air is a mix of lots of stuff, but if we just look at nitrogen, which is 78 or so percent of it, N2 = [14 times 2] = 28 plus, of course, these gases don't remain as discrete entities but mix in with each other. So CO is going to be pretty much diffused throught the air. Yes, thanks to you and Frank for making this clear. Thanks for all that info. What about the interconnection wire ? Does that have to be the same gauge as the other wires in the box ? I believe the harness is 18 gauge. Why can't I just run a piece of bell wire between the detectors ? Maybe their online manual will help? https://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en...t_with_.h tml |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
|
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 10:04:04 AM UTC-6, AJL wrote:
On 11/30/20 5:54 AM, wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 07:39:52 -0500, Frank "frank wrote: On 11/30/2020 5:20 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: On 11/29/20 10:07 PM, Sid 03 wrote: Looking to install some new smoke detectors. I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. This is what Consumer Reports has to say. They haven't tested them for a couple years. This is as of June 2018. Consumer Reports wasn't satisfied with any combination smoke and carbon monoxide detectors they tested then. These are the dual sensor smoke alarms. First Alert 3120B $30 Score 91 Kidde P12010 $30 Score 91 First Alert SA320CN $23 Score 87 Kidde P19010 $25 Score 87 Ionization smoke alarms. First Alert SA9120BCN $25 Score 55 Kidde KN-COSM-1B $35 Score 55 Note 1 Kidde RF-SM-DC $40 Score 53 First Alert SA303 $12 Score 51 First Alert SA304LCN $24 Score 51 Photoelectric smoke alarms First Alert 7010B $25 Score 55 Nest Protect $129 Score 55 Note 1,2 Nest Protect $129 Score 55 Note 1,2 First Alert SA501CN $60 Score 53 Note 2 First Alert SC051CN $70 Score 53 Note 1,2 1 Combination smoke/carbon-monoxide alarm, also rated as CO alarm. 2 Interconnects wirelessly. I knew that CO detectors had a finite lifetime, 7-10 years, and now note that smoke detectors are recommended to be replaced by 10 years. Still not sure a combo appeals to me since I got over 20 years out of two smoke detectors before I replaced them. I think the 10 year "lifetime" is a recommendation that will provide acceptable reliability - beyond that, the device may still be OK but the crucial reliability begins to decrease. I'd be OK stretching it to 12 years, not 20. John T. I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. I went out and read the entire user manual from Kidde and it does state that the max distance between interconnected-wired units is 1000 feet, but nothing about the type of wire or wire-gauge that can be used. |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On 11/30/20 10:42 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
danny burstein submitted this idea : In FromTheRafters writes: [snip] CO is heavier than 'air'. Smoke is generally in hot air and rises.-- follow their instructions for placement. Carbon Monoxide has an atomic, well molecular, weight of Carbon [12] + Oxygeb [16] == 28 Air is a mix of lots of stuff, but if we just look at nitrogen, which is 78 or so percent of it, N2 = [14 times 2] = 28 plus, of course, these gases don't remain as discrete entities but mix in with each other. So CO is going to be pretty much diffused throught the air. Yes, thanks to you and Frank for making this clear. One other thing to make clear. Avoid the Kidde 10 year battery models. I've had several and most only last a few years. The good news is they (used to) replace them via warranty. The bad news is they are on back-order now. Mine died two months ago and I called them but they told me it will be several months to be able to send me a new one. Screw Kidde. I went to the store and bought a competitor's product. It's working fine! -- However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On 11/30/20 11:11 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 11/30/20 10:42 AM, FromTheRafters wrote: danny burstein submitted this idea : In FromTheRafters writes: [snip] CO is heavier than 'air'. Smoke is generally in hot air and rises.-- follow their instructions for placement. Carbon Monoxide has an atomic, well molecular, weight of Carbon [12] + Oxygeb [16] == 28 Air is a mix of lots of stuff, but if we just look at nitrogen, which is 78 or so percent of it, N2 = [14 times 2] = 28 plus, of course, these gases don't remain as discrete entities but mix in with each other. So CO is going to be pretty much diffused throught the air. Yes, thanks to you and Frank for making this clear. One other thing to make clear. Avoid the Kidde 10 year battery models. I've had several and most only last a few years. The good news is they (used to) replace them via warranty. The bad news is they are on back-order now. Mine died two months ago and I called them but they told me it will be several months to be able to send me a new one. Screw Kidde. I went to the store and bought a competitor's product. It's working fine! My 10yr battery models are First Alert. After 3+ years so far so good. Dunno what the warranty was but I'm probably SOL if they quit now. |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:07:10 -0800 (PST), Sid 03
wrote: Looking to install some new smoke detectors. I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? You should use at least one of each. They are different and they detect fire differently. If you want to detect all your fires as soon as possible, and not just some of them, you want both kinds. I had a problem for a while when I started cooking meat in frypan. It would set off the smoke detector which would set off the siren and call the alarm monitoring company, which woudl have called the fire department if I were not home, but of course I was home or I wouldn't have been frying at home. But by not making the pan quite as hot, I still cooked the meat, it came out the same and no more men in big brim hats visited me. Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? Well if half breaks, you're torn between keeping both halves or throwing away both halves, but I don't know how often half breaks that the other doesn't If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:03:53 +0000 (UTC), AJL
wrote: I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. I think they sell ones with 6-year batteries for 104-year olds. |
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
10 yr mandate, was: Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
[lots snipped]
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:03:53 +0000 (UTC), AJL wrote: I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. New York has been mandating these "10 year" smoke detectors for a couple of years now (there was a phase in period to allow vendors to sell off the older ones). Don't know how many other places have done this: https://www.democratandchronicle.com...ow/3329632002/ -- __________________________________________________ ___ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] |
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
10 yr mandate, was: Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 22:13:53 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote: [lots snipped] In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:03:53 +0000 (UTC), AJL wrote: I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. New York has been mandating these "10 year" smoke detectors for a couple of years now (there was a phase in period to allow vendors to sell off the older ones). Don't know how many other places have done this: https://www.democratandchronicle.com...ow/3329632002/ ... or the hard-wired units. Which I always thought were inferior - because - during power outages - people will be using their more dangerous portable heaters & such .. John T. |
#24
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On 11/30/2020 8:36 AM, trader_4 wrote:
I don't understand the scoring. The combo ones are all way higher than the smoke only. Does that mean that the scores for the dual units were a number for smoke plus a number for CO so those numbers don't directly compare? Did they have some explanation or reasoning as to why the dual units were not as good? The dual sensor units are Ionization & Photoelectric in one. No CO sensor. I always kept a CO detector separate from Smoke detectors. I have a First Alert CO detector w/digital readout that plugs into the wall and has a battery backup. |
#25
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
10 yr mandate, was: Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:35 -0500, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 22:13:53 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein wrote: [lots snipped] In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:03:53 +0000 (UTC), AJL wrote: I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. New York has been mandating these "10 year" smoke detectors for a couple of years now (there was a phase in period to allow vendors to sell off the older ones). Don't know how many other places have done this: https://www.democratandchronicle.com...ow/3329632002/ .. or the hard-wired units. Which I always thought were inferior - because - during power outages - people will be using their more dangerous portable heaters & such .. John T. And some places don't even allow "hard wired" because the ionizer (the little radioactive device) has a fixed life and for best protection should be replaced every 10 years. Used to be "hardwired" was the only way to have sensor #1 set off the rest in a building to make sure everyone in the building hears the alarm. Now they can "radio link" |
#26
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
10 yr mandate, was: Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:17:43 -0500, Turd Ferguson
wrote: On 11/30/2020 5:39 PM, wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 22:13:53 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein wrote: [lots snipped] In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:03:53 +0000 (UTC), AJL wrote: I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. New York has been mandating these "10 year" smoke detectors for a couple of years now (there was a phase in period to allow vendors to sell off the older ones). Don't know how many other places have done this: https://www.democratandchronicle.com...ow/3329632002/ .. or the hard-wired units. Which I always thought were inferior - because - during power outages - people will be using their more dangerous portable heaters & such .. John T. Our hard-wire detectors all have 9 volt backup batteries. They'll chirp if the battery is dead or removed. Having the ten year battery in a hard wired unit would address the issue I referred to in my previous post - - - |
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
10 yr mandate, was: Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 01 Dec 2020 00:00:06 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:35 -0500, wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 22:13:53 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein wrote: [lots snipped] In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:03:53 +0000 (UTC), AJL wrote: I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. New York has been mandating these "10 year" smoke detectors for a couple of years now (there was a phase in period to allow vendors to sell off the older ones). Don't know how many other places have done this: https://www.democratandchronicle.com...ow/3329632002/ .. or the hard-wired units. Which I always thought were inferior - because - during power outages - people will be using their more dangerous portable heaters & such .. John T. And some places don't even allow "hard wired" because the ionizer (the little radioactive device) has a fixed life and for best protection should be replaced every 10 years. Used to be "hardwired" was the only way to have sensor #1 set off the rest in a building to make sure everyone in the building hears the alarm. Now they can "radio link" Hardwired was also the only way that didn't depend on the owner replacing a dead battery. My house has a hardwired smoke alarm, but only one. It can't communicate with other smoke alarms any more than it can speak Greek. |
#28
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
10 yr mandate, was: Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:20:28 -0500, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 01 Dec 2020 00:00:06 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:35 -0500, wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 22:13:53 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein wrote: [lots snipped] In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:03:53 +0000 (UTC), AJL wrote: I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. New York has been mandating these "10 year" smoke detectors for a couple of years now (there was a phase in period to allow vendors to sell off the older ones). Don't know how many other places have done this: https://www.democratandchronicle.com...ow/3329632002/ .. or the hard-wired units. Which I always thought were inferior - because - during power outages - people will be using their more dangerous portable heaters & such .. John T. And some places don't even allow "hard wired" because the ionizer (the little radioactive device) has a fixed life and for best protection should be replaced every 10 years. Used to be "hardwired" was the only way to have sensor #1 set off the rest in a building to make sure everyone in the building hears the alarm. Now they can "radio link" Hardwired was also the only way that didn't depend on the owner replacing a dead battery. Hardwired and battery aren't mutually exclusive. For the last 20 years or so, across 1 apartment and 4 homes, my smoke detectors have been hardwired with battery backup. My house has a hardwired smoke alarm, but only one. I don't know anything about your house,but a single smoke detector sounds like it may not be enough. My 2800sf 4-br house has one in each bedroom, one just outside each bedroom, one in the main hallway, one in the hallway leading to the garage, one in the kitchen, one in the dining room, and one in the study. I may have missed one. They're everywhere. It can't communicate with other smoke alarms any more than it can speak Greek. Mine speak English, announcing "Fire!" in between the blaring alarm. I wonder if they also know Greek. |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
10 yr mandate, was: Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:54:39 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote: On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:20:28 -0500, micky wrote: In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 01 Dec 2020 00:00:06 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:35 -0500, wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 22:13:53 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein wrote: [lots snipped] In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:03:53 +0000 (UTC), AJL wrote: I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. New York has been mandating these "10 year" smoke detectors for a couple of years now (there was a phase in period to allow vendors to sell off the older ones). Don't know how many other places have done this: https://www.democratandchronicle.com...ow/3329632002/ .. or the hard-wired units. Which I always thought were inferior - because - during power outages - people will be using their more dangerous portable heaters & such .. John T. And some places don't even allow "hard wired" because the ionizer (the little radioactive device) has a fixed life and for best protection should be replaced every 10 years. Used to be "hardwired" was the only way to have sensor #1 set off the rest in a building to make sure everyone in the building hears the alarm. Now they can "radio link" Hardwired was also the only way that didn't depend on the owner replacing a dead battery. Hardwired and battery aren't mutually exclusive. For the last 20 years or so, across 1 apartment and 4 homes, my smoke detectors have been hardwired with battery backup. My house has a hardwired smoke alarm, but only one. I don't know anything about your house,but a single smoke detector sounds like it may not be enough. My 2800sf 4-br house has one in each bedroom, one just outside each bedroom, one in the main hallway, one in the hallway leading to the garage, one in the kitchen, one in the dining room, and one in the study. I may have missed one. They're everywhere. You folks probably should be checking your codes. In Florida interconnected smoke alarms are required in all sleeping rooms. When I did my addition, it was required to come up to code if it could be done without any major destruction. For me it was pretty easy because I have a single level with attic access to all of the bedrooms. With the RF connected detectors it is not an issue of effort to get there. |
#30
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
10 yr mandate, was: Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:54:39 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote: On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:20:28 -0500, micky wrote: In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 01 Dec 2020 00:00:06 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:35 -0500, wrote: On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 22:13:53 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein wrote: [lots snipped] In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:03:53 +0000 (UTC), AJL wrote: I bought detectors with 10 year permanent batteries installed. When the batteries finally complain or the 10 years is up I'll replace them with another ten year bunch. Unless of course they outlive me. New York has been mandating these "10 year" smoke detectors for a couple of years now (there was a phase in period to allow vendors to sell off the older ones). Don't know how many other places have done this: https://www.democratandchronicle.com...ow/3329632002/ .. or the hard-wired units. Which I always thought were inferior - because - during power outages - people will be using their more dangerous portable heaters & such .. John T. And some places don't even allow "hard wired" because the ionizer (the little radioactive device) has a fixed life and for best protection should be replaced every 10 years. Used to be "hardwired" was the only way to have sensor #1 set off the rest in a building to make sure everyone in the building hears the alarm. Now they can "radio link" Hardwired was also the only way that didn't depend on the owner ===== replacing a dead battery. Hardwired and battery aren't mutually exclusive. For the last 20 years or But they were 40 years ago. so, across 1 apartment and 4 homes, my smoke detectors have been hardwired with battery backup. My house has a hardwired smoke alarm, but only one. I don't know anything about your house,but a single smoke detector sounds like it may not be enough. My 2800sf 4-br house has one in each bedroom, one just outside each bedroom, one in the main hallway, one in the hallway leading to the garage, one in the kitchen, one in the dining room, and one in the study. I may have missed one. They're everywhere. It can't communicate with other smoke alarms any more than it can speak Greek. Mine speak English, announcing "Fire!" in between the blaring alarm. I wonder if they also know Greek. |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
10 yr mandate, was: Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:54:39 -0600, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest... Mine speak English, announcing "Fire!" in between the blaring alarm. I wonder if they also know Greek. It's all Greek to me. -- Tekkie |
#32
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Smoke detectors, Ionization vs Photoelectric
On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 7:40:03 AM UTC-5, Frank wrote in alt.home.repair:
On 11/30/2020 5:20 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: On 11/29/20 10:07 PM, Sid 03 wrote: Looking to install some new smoke detectors. I was going to install Ionization type smoke detectors in the lower floors and then a combination smoke and CO detector on the 3rd floor where the bedrooms are located. I noticed that most of the combo detectors do not use ionization to detect smoke, but use photoelectric type sensors. Is this a a big deal or should I stick with the most popular ionization type ? Years ago I was told by a contractor to not install combo detectors, but to keep the CO and Smoke detectors separate ? Does anyone have an opinion on that ? If the CO detector has an interconnection wire for other alarms, should you connect it to the interconnection wire for the fire-Alarms ? All this stuff is manufactured by Kidde, so I am assuming that is all compatible ? Thanks Sid. This is what Consumer Reports has to say. They haven't tested them for a couple years. This is as of June 2018. Consumer Reports wasn't satisfied with any combination smoke and carbon monoxide detectors they tested then. These are the dual sensor smoke alarms. First Alert 3120B $30 Score 91 Kidde P12010 $30 Score 91 First Alert SA320CN $23 Score 87 Kidde P19010 $25 Score 87 Ionization smoke alarms. First Alert SA9120BCN $25 Score 55 Kidde KN-COSM-1B $35 Score 55 Note 1 Kidde RF-SM-DC $40 Score 53 First Alert SA303 $12 Score 51 First Alert SA304LCN $24 Score 51 Photoelectric smoke alarms First Alert 7010B $25 Score 55 Nest Protect $129 Score 55 Note 1,2 Nest Protect $129 Score 55 Note 1,2 First Alert SA501CN $60 Score 53 Note 2 First Alert SC051CN $70 Score 53 Note 1,2 1 Combination smoke/carbon-monoxide alarm, also rated as CO alarm. 2 Interconnects wirelessly. I knew that CO detectors had a finite lifetime, 7-10 years, and now note that smoke detectors are recommended to be replaced by 10 years. Still not sure a combo appeals to me since I got over 20 years out of two smoke detectors before I replaced them. Its easy to forget and just leave the detector in place. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Ionization Smoke Detector In Toddler's Room: How Safe ? | Home Repair | |||
Wiring photoelectric sensor to 14/2 uf cable ??? How to ?? | Home Repair | |||
RF linked smoke and CO detectors/detectors | UK diy | |||
Are there any combo smoke/CO detectors with photoelectric sensors? | Home Repair | |||
Photoelectric Light Controls | Electronics Repair |