16 million taxpayers live here, a few thousand them will get a FEMA check.
If we can stop sending money to Washington they can stop sending the small
fraction of it we get back.
Florida is a "donor" state paying a lot more in federal taxes than we receive.

While you are thanking God & Country for FEMA, how about thanking the
rest of us that funded FEMA?"

I thank you for nothing! I pay the same taxes as you do. Why don't _you_ move
to another country and then you can whine about something else.

(Greg) wrote in message ...
16 million taxpayers live here, a few thousand them will get a FEMA check.
If we can stop sending money to Washington they can stop sending the small
fraction of it we get back.
Florida is a "donor" state paying a lot more in federal taxes than we receive.

Everybody who pays taxes gets screwed over by this, except for the
people who don't take responsibility and get enough insurance to cover
their property.

Larry Bud wrote:
(Greg) wrote in message ...

16 million taxpayers live here, a few thousand them will get a FEMA check.
If we can stop sending money to Washington they can stop sending the small
fraction of it we get back.
Florida is a "donor" state paying a lot more in federal taxes than we receive.


Everybody who pays taxes gets screwed over by this, except for the
people who don't take responsibility and get enough insurance to cover
their property.

How much is enough? Does it include motel expenses, lost wages (if my
employer is out of biz)? In another day or two, I might prevail on the
taxpayers of Georgia for use of their roads and shelters. Hope they
don't mind )

"Norminn" wrote in message

How much is enough? Does it include motel expenses, lost wages (if my
employer is out of biz)? In another day or two, I might prevail on the
taxpayers of Georgia for use of their roads and shelters. Hope they don't
mind )

There are times we have to help others. Nothing wrong with hat be it tax
dollars or donation.

There are times that people have to help themselves. Build a house five
feet from the ocean, take care of it yourself. Everyone knows the ocean can
flood or have storm surges that destroy property in a place like that.
Don't ask me for any help when it happens, and it will happen.

Fortunately, new building codes are helping.

Fortunately, new building codes are helping.

There are still plenty of old houses that are built well. My 1963 house has a
poured tie beam, doweled cells and straps (buried in the concrete) going over
the trusses.
Northern folks don't understand what they do when they build a house here. The
reality is most of the "devastation" you see is trailers or houses with the
(stapled) shingles ripped off. Of course there are houses built by northern
builders who think they know all there is to know about building and the whole
roof flies away.

On 11 Sep 2004 03:25:35 GMT, (Greg) scribbled this
interesting note:

The reality is most of the "devastation" you see is trailers or houses with the
(stapled) shingles ripped off. Of course there are houses built by northern
builders who think they know all there is to know about building and the whole
roof flies away.

Just to address the stapled shingles point you raise...

Here in the Dallas area we get plenty of big thunderstorms, tornadoes,
straight-line winds, etc. I don't mean small summer breezes of thirty
or forty miles an hour. In about thirty years of using Paslode staples
and pneumatic guns we've only had a hand full of times when we have
had to replace blown off shingles. One time in particular I remember
when every house but one on a street that had a tornado pass close by.
Every house but one required some kind of roof repair. The one was one
we installed. With staples. The house next door, also one of our
installations, did require some repair. The wind turbines were removed
by the storm. Installed new turbines and a few shingles that were
removed by the turbines and all was right again as the rest of that
roof also had no damage.

It isn't the choice of roof fastener that is of primary importance. It
is the installation. Used properly, roofing nails installed by hand,
pneumatic coil nail guns, or pneumatic staple guns, each method will
perform well if installed well. Of course any method of installing
fasteners will fail if a bunch of slugs are doing the job...
--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

I don't think there is any staple that meets the current Florida code. It is 6
nails per shingle.

From: (Greg)


I don't think there is any staple that meets the current Florida code. It is
6
nails per shingle.

Christ, that's almost a preforated edge. like your checks!

I don't think shingles blow off a house because they weren't properly fastened.
If the wind is strong enough to get under the shingle, it's only a matter of
mechanics that the shingle will break off and blow away.

On 11 Sep 2004 17:07:06 GMT, (HA HA Budys Here)
scribbled this interesting note:

From: (Greg)


I don't think there is any staple that meets the current Florida code. It is
6
nails per shingle.

Christ, that's almost a preforated edge. like your checks!

I don't think shingles blow off a house because they weren't properly fastened.
If the wind is strong enough to get under the shingle, it's only a matter of
mechanics that the shingle will break off and blow away.

When installers are being paid by the square, one way to make more
money is to go faster. How does the installer go faster? Fewer
fasteners per shingle.

Another factor is installer laziness. Badly placed fasteners or poorly
maintained equipment also are sources for problems.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

If the wind is strong enough to get under the shingle, it's only a matter of
mechanics that the shingle will break off and blow away.

That really gets down to how well the "self sealing" tabs work. Fortunately it
is always hot enough here so they lay down and the goo is "gooy". They are
supposed to put down a strip of cement on the edges of the roof to keep the
"rip" from starting there.
You are right that the quality ultimately depends on the installer.
I did try to be a good homeowner, stay out of their way and keep the cold water
coming, so my guys did a pretty good job.

John Willis wrote:
On 11 Sep 2004 17:07:06 GMT, (HA HA Budys Here)
scribbled this interesting note:


From: (Greg)

I don't think there is any staple that meets the current Florida code. It is
6
nails per shingle.

Christ, that's almost a preforated edge. like your checks!

I don't think shingles blow off a house because they weren't properly fastened.
If the wind is strong enough to get under the shingle, it's only a matter of
mechanics that the shingle will break off and blow away.


When installers are being paid by the square, one way to make more
money is to go faster. How does the installer go faster? Fewer
fasteners per shingle.

Another factor is installer laziness. Badly placed fasteners or poorly
maintained equipment also are sources for problems.


Our condo has mansards with flat roof between. Formerly concrete tile.
Got elk laminated shingles, installed January. Lots were
improperly nailed, and fell off. City changed installation/inspection
requirements after our roof problems occurred. Now require glue under
each tab on steep sections. Looks like crap. I don't know what cities
typically do for in-process inspections, but they sure didn't look at
the nailing. Roofer had expired license, according to the city
paperwork. These shingles are laminated, with only half-inch overlap,
so nailing 1/4" off the line makes a big difference.

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:50:28 GMT, Norminn
scribbled this interesting note:

Our condo has mansards with flat roof between. Formerly concrete tile.
Got elk laminated shingles, installed January. Lots were
improperly nailed, and fell off. City changed installation/inspection
requirements after our roof problems occurred. Now require glue under
each tab on steep sections. Looks like crap. I don't know what cities
typically do for in-process inspections, but they sure didn't look at
the nailing. Roofer had expired license, according to the city
paperwork. These shingles are laminated, with only half-inch overlap,
so nailing 1/4" off the line makes a big difference.


I seem to recall you mentioning this a while back. Yes, improper
fastening makes a large difference no matter what kind you use!

--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

"John Willis" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:50:28 GMT, Norminn
scribbled this interesting note:

Our condo has mansards with flat roof between. Formerly concrete tile.
Got elk laminated shingles, installed January. Lots were
improperly nailed, and fell off. City changed installation/inspection
requirements after our roof problems occurred. Now require glue under
each tab on steep sections. Looks like crap. I don't know what cities
typically do for in-process inspections, but they sure didn't look at
the nailing. Roofer had expired license, according to the city
paperwork. These shingles are laminated, with only half-inch overlap,
so nailing 1/4" off the line makes a big difference.


I seem to recall you mentioning this a while back. Yes, improper
fastening makes a large difference no matter what kind you use!

--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

This is Turtle.

A lot of the Posters here are not versed in the Hurrican winds and what they can
do. You being in Texas and also being in the Fla. , Alb., Miss., La., Ga., SC.,
NC., and Texas so called Hurrican Allie will see all the shingles blown off one
side of the roof and not a shingle left to look at. A 200 M.P.H. + wind will
skin a roof no matter what you fasten them with. Now a roofing tack on every
square inch of the roof might do it.

TURTLE