We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:46:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

We can't always have what we want.

Anyone know how to make it do that ?

I know. You can't.

Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

You can make a list of all the stations you want, even maybe using the
rotor to point in different directions to see what's out there. Then
you can pick the direction that has the most, scan once, and add the
others manually. Without using Search/Scan.

On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 04:33:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems. They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.
I am seeing more "monitor only" TVs these days with no tuner at all,
just some HDMI ports and maybe a combo set of composite/componant
jacks.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:46:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...

It's going to be the same set of answers you got when you asked this
question a few weeks ago.

Disconnect and optionally remove the rotor. Add a second (or more) antenna
and use a combiner so that your tuner app thinks it's all a single antenna.

Use one of the OTA antenna websites to determine where the stations are
broadcasting from in your area.

On 8/24/2020 7:33 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks
Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?


https://www.silicondust.com/product/...onnect-quatro/

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:10:58 -0400, Neil Kelly
wrote:

On 8/24/2020 7:33 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks
Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?


https://www.silicondust.com/product/...onnect-quatro/

Silicondust makes excellent tuners, possibly the best, but how is that
going to help the OP? The tuners still need an antenna, or in the OPs case,
either an antenna with a rotor or multiple antennas.

On 8/24/2020 4:33 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?


Too bad, because that is your option. You only need to do it once.

On 8/24/2020 12:03 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:46:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...

It's going to be the same set of answers you got when you asked this
question a few weeks ago.

Disconnect and optionally remove the rotor. Add a second (or more) antenna
and use a combiner so that your tuner app thinks it's all a single antenna.

Use one of the OTA antenna websites to determine where the stations are
broadcasting from in your area.

Have you tried mounting an omnidirectional antenna on your tower,
perhaps with a low noise uhf/vhf amplifier, connecting that setup to
your TV temporarily, re-scanning, and seeing whether you receive all the
stations you desire/expect? You might even be able to find someone to
loan those items to you, or allow you to purchase them with a guaranteed
refund if they are "unsatisfactory". Assuming it does, then disconnect
that setup, reconnect your rotor controlled directional antenna and dial
the rotor direction for each station providing the best reception. Web
sites, such as /www.antennasdirect.com/transmitter-locator.html
www.antennaweb.org and others easily located with a web search can help
you determine if the strategy has been successful.

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:03:54 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:46:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...

It's going to be the same set of answers you got when you asked this
question a few weeks ago.

Disconnect and optionally remove the rotor. Add a second (or more) antenna
and use a combiner so that your tuner app thinks it's all a single antenna.

Use one of the OTA antenna websites to determine where the stations are
broadcasting from in your area.

Probably the best idea if there are only a couple of directions to the
towers. Another option is a multidirectional antenna but they
generally top out at 30-40 miles even with an amp. (advertising claims
are not facts).

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:01:17 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 04:33:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems.

Nonsense. They wouldn't scan multiple cable inputs eiher, without
erasing the earlier ones.

They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

I am seeing more "monitor only" TVs these days with no tuner at all,
just some HDMI ports and maybe a combo set of composite/componant
jacks.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 14:31:19 -0400, Peter
wrote:

On 8/24/2020 12:03 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:46:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...

It's going to be the same set of answers you got when you asked this
question a few weeks ago.

Disconnect and optionally remove the rotor. Add a second (or more) antenna
and use a combiner so that your tuner app thinks it's all a single antenna.

Use one of the OTA antenna websites to determine where the stations are
broadcasting from in your area.

Have you tried mounting an omnidirectional antenna on your tower,

Even without the other steps below, doesn't this sound like a lot more
time and effort than adding stations manually?


perhaps with a low noise uhf/vhf amplifier, connecting that setup to
your TV temporarily, re-scanning, and seeing whether you receive all the
stations you desire/expect? You might even be able to find someone to
loan those items to you, or allow you to purchase them with a guaranteed
refund if they are "unsatisfactory". Assuming it does, then disconnect
that setup, reconnect your rotor controlled directional antenna and dial
the rotor direction for each station providing the best reception. Web
sites, such as /www.antennasdirect.com/transmitter-locator.html
www.antennaweb.org and others easily located with a web search can help
you determine if the strategy has been successful.

On 8/24/2020 4:54 PM, micky wrote:
So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable.

Low price gets the sale.Â* Get it?

On 8/24/20 3:54 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

I am seeing more "monitor only" TVs these days with no tuner at all,
just some HDMI ports and maybe a combo set of composite/componant
jacks.

IIRC, you can get an external tuner for use with such a device. Like one
of those boxes a lot of people had in 2009, but a HD version.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." --
Clarence Darrow

On 8/24/20 3:54 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems.

Nonsense. They wouldn't scan multiple cable inputs eiher, without
erasing the earlier ones.

Some (most?) cable systems now encrypt everything, requiring you to use
their box instead of the TV tuner.

Because of this I can get BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV.

They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

So antenna users need an add-on tuner and those without an antenna don't
have to pay for it.

I am seeing more "monitor only" TVs these days with no tuner at all,
just some HDMI ports and maybe a combo set of composite/componant
jacks.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." --
Clarence Darrow

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:54:13 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:01:17 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 04:33:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems.

Nonsense. They wouldn't scan multiple cable inputs eiher, without
erasing the earlier ones.

My two Samsungs pick up inputs on the fly, no scan necessary as does
the no name TV in the back room and the Panasonic in the shop. Plug it
in, it shows up on the input menu as "hot" (the rest are grayed out).
I have never actually seen a TV that didn't work that way and we have
always had a bunch here.


They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

TV makers go where the money is.
Don't argue with me, I am not the OP complaining that Sony did not
envision people with antenna rotators when they designed their set but
I bet that is a pretty small market share.
I was just reading an article that says 17% of American households are
OTA only but most are city dwellers where an omnidirectional stick up
antenna from Amazon works.

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 20:14:29 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 8/24/20 3:54 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

I am seeing more "monitor only" TVs these days with no tuner at all,
just some HDMI ports and maybe a combo set of composite/componant
jacks.

IIRC, you can get an external tuner for use with such a device. Like one
of those boxes a lot of people had in 2009, but a HD version.

I think they are sold to people who are not sure what the F-59 jack on
their TV is for now that Roku/Fire Stick and their Cable/Sat box are
HDMI. I bet your Replay was hooked to the TV with the AV jacks or
S-Video and that was last century.

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 20:18:48 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 8/24/20 3:54 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems.

Nonsense. They wouldn't scan multiple cable inputs eiher, without
erasing the earlier ones.

Some (most?) cable systems now encrypt everything, requiring you to use
their box instead of the TV tuner.

Because of this I can get BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV.

I'm curious to hear why you think cable encryption has anything to do with
getting "BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV".

My last 4 TVs have had separate tuners (and separate inputs) for OTA and
cable, plus multiple HDMI inputs, so cable encryption hasn't made any
difference here.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 20:18:48 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 8/24/20 3:54 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems.

Nonsense. They wouldn't scan multiple cable inputs eiher, without
erasing the earlier ones.

Some (most?) cable systems now encrypt everything, requiring you to use
their box instead of the TV tuner.

Because of this I can get BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV.

I know about that, I have that, but that doesn't contradict4 what I
said. If you scan OTA it erases your prvious OTA scan and if you scan
for cable it erases your previous cable scan.

They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

So antenna users need an add-on tuner and those without an antenna don't
have to pay for it.

maybe in some cases.

I am seeing more "monitor only" TVs these days with no tuner at all,
just some HDMI ports and maybe a combo set of composite/componant
jacks.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 22:36:34 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:54:13 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:01:17 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 04:33:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems.

Nonsense. They wouldn't scan multiple cable inputs eiher, without
erasing the earlier ones.

My two Samsungs pick up inputs on the fly, no scan necessary as does
the no name TV in the back room and the Panasonic in the shop. Plug it

Do you mean you can enter 1 3 and it picks up channel 13? Yes of
course.

Scanning is done so you can use the Channel Up button on the tv or
remote and it will only stop at channels that were found during
scanning. Unless scanning was never done or was erased. Then Channel
Up stops at every channel.

Scan is never necessary.

in, it shows up on the input menu as "hot" (the rest are grayed out).
I have never actually seen a TV that didn't work that way and we have
always had a bunch here.


They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

TV makers go where the money is.
Don't argue with me, I am not the OP complaining that Sony did not

One is only allowed to argue with an OP?

envision people with antenna rotators when they designed their set but
I bet that is a pretty small market share.

And how much does it cost to put in the OTA software?. Almost nothing.
To put in the OTA hardware? About a dollar.

I was just reading an article that says 17% of American households are
OTA only but most are city dwellers where an omnidirectional stick up
antenna from Amazon works.

Do you think their money is no good becase they are city dwellers? Do
you think they make different models for the city and the country?

And 17% is plenty.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:03:54 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:46:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...

It's going to be the same set of answers you got when you asked this
question a few weeks ago.

Disconnect and optionally remove the rotor. Add a second (or more) antenna
and use a combiner so that your tuner app thinks it's all a single antenna.

I remembered the previous question but didn't realize it was the same
poster. And I remembered the multiple antennal idea, which I thought
was a good one, but I didn't suggest it here because he has a tower. I
figured antennas in his attic couldn't compete with a tower, unless
maybe he pointed the attic antenna to the nearest city and saved the
tower for distant ones. He could do that but I don't think he'll want
to.


Use one of the OTA antenna websites to determine where the stations are
broadcasting from in your area.

On 8/24/2020 4:58 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 14:31:19 -0400, Peter
wrote:

On 8/24/2020 12:03 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:46:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...

It's going to be the same set of answers you got when you asked this
question a few weeks ago.

Disconnect and optionally remove the rotor. Add a second (or more) antenna
and use a combiner so that your tuner app thinks it's all a single antenna.

Use one of the OTA antenna websites to determine where the stations are
broadcasting from in your area.

Have you tried mounting an omnidirectional antenna on your tower,

Even without the other steps below, doesn't this sound like a lot more
time and effort than adding stations manually?



I've never owned either a digital to analog TV adapter (remember those
from the earliest days of digital broadcasting?) or a digital TV that
allowed me to manually add a channel I couldn't receive during a
complete scan/rescan. I could remove/add channels only to the list of
channels that were detected during the most recent complete scan.
That's why when a digital station changes it's broadcast frequency, you
need to do a rescan. You can't just punch in the new frequency on the
remote and receive the previously unused channel. The OP is using a
directional antenna on a rotor that only detects the subset of all
potential channels that could be received, depending on which direction
he's pointing the antenna. He's trying to get all potentially viewable
stations on his scanned list, regardless of their transmitter's compass
heading from his antenna.

perhaps with a low noise uhf/vhf amplifier, connecting that setup to
your TV temporarily, re-scanning, and seeing whether you receive all the
stations you desire/expect? You might even be able to find someone to
loan those items to you, or allow you to purchase them with a guaranteed
refund if they are "unsatisfactory". Assuming it does, then disconnect
that setup, reconnect your rotor controlled directional antenna and dial
the rotor direction for each station providing the best reception. Web
sites, such as /www.antennasdirect.com/transmitter-locator.html
www.antennaweb.org and others easily located with a web search can help
you determine if the strategy has been successful.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 25 Aug 2020 09:14:04 -0400, Peter
wrote:



I've never owned either a digital to analog TV adapter (remember those
from the earliest days of digital broadcasting?) or a digital TV that
allowed me to manually add a channel I couldn't receive during a
complete scan/rescan. I could remove/add channels only to the list of
channels that were detected during the most recent complete scan.

Maybe you just assumed that was the case and didn't try. I find it
really hard to believe that a tuner that allows you to remove a channel
won't let you add one, just by punching in the channel number and then
doing what it takes to add it. Espeically since I think you're saying
you could add channels you had deleted.

That's why when a digital station changes it's broadcast frequency, you
need to do a rescan. You can't just punch in the new frequency on the

I agree that rescanning makes for more work, and I hadn't thought of
that, but doesn't rescanning make for even more work with your plan:

You suggested: "Have you tried mounting an omnidirectional antenna on
your tower, perhaps with a low noise uhf/vhf amplifier, connecting that
setup to your TV temporarily, re-scanning, and seeing whether you
receive all the stations you desire/expect? You might even be able to
find someone to loan those items to you, or allow you to purchase them
with a guaranteed refund if they are "unsatisfactory". Assuming it
does, then disconnect that setup, reconnect your rotor controlled
directional antenna and dial the rotor direction for each station
providing the best reception. Web sites, such as /www.antennasdirect.
com/transmitter-locator.html "

OTOH we had to rescan about a month ago and that was the first time in
more than 2 years. More than 5 years?

remote and receive the previously unused channel. The OP is using a

But you can punch in the same channel number and then add it.

directional antenna on a rotor that only detects the subset of all
potential channels that could be received, depending on which direction
he's pointing the antenna. He's trying to get all potentially viewable
stations on his scanned list, regardless of their transmitter's compass
heading from his antenna.

Yes, I got that. Then he plans to set the rotor in the right direction
for the station he is watching. Of course that means he'll have a list
of stations and directions which means if he has to rescan, he'll have a
list of all the4 stations he can get.

On 8/24/20 10:30 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

I'm curious to hear why you think cable encryption has anything to do with
getting "BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV".

Cable encryption means the TVs tuner is useless for cable, so you need
their box which doesn't use the tuner. Therefore, it is available for
antenna use.

My last 4 TVs have had separate tuners (and separate inputs) for OTA and
cable, plus multiple HDMI inputs, so cable encryption hasn't made any
difference here.

Separate tuners sounds like a good idea, but fully encrypted cable means
you can't use one for cable.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The whole tone of Church teaching in regard to women is, to the last
degree, contemptuous and degrading." [Elizabeth Cady Stanton]

On 8/25/20 2:42 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

Scanning is done so you can use the Channel Up button on the tv or
remote and it will only stop at channels that were found during
scanning. Unless scanning was never done or was erased. Then Channel
Up stops at every channel.

Scan is never necessary.

Tuning without a scan would require knowing the actual (RF) channel
number, that's something ordinary users aren't supposed to be able to
understand. Also, how are subchannels really selected?

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The whole tone of Church teaching in regard to women is, to the last
degree, contemptuous and degrading." [Elizabeth Cady Stanton]

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 03:42:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 22:36:34 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:54:13 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:01:17 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 04:33:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems.

Nonsense. They wouldn't scan multiple cable inputs eiher, without
erasing the earlier ones.

My two Samsungs pick up inputs on the fly, no scan necessary as does
the no name TV in the back room and the Panasonic in the shop. Plug it

Do you mean you can enter 1 3 and it picks up channel 13? Yes of
course.

Scanning is done so you can use the Channel Up button on the tv or
remote and it will only stop at channels that were found during
scanning. Unless scanning was never done or was erased. Then Channel
Up stops at every channel.

Scan is never necessary.

I was referring to your statement that you have to scan for inputs.


in, it shows up on the input menu as "hot" (the rest are grayed out).
I have never actually seen a TV that didn't work that way and we have
always had a bunch here.


They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

TV makers go where the money is.
Don't argue with me, I am not the OP complaining that Sony did not

One is only allowed to argue with an OP?

envision people with antenna rotators when they designed their set but
I bet that is a pretty small market share.

And how much does it cost to put in the OTA software?. Almost nothing.
To put in the OTA hardware? About a dollar.

If you sell a million TVs that is a million dollars. It is like GM not
putting the 87 cent detent in the ignition switches in a bunch of
cars. If they don't think they need it, the bean counters say don't do
it.



I was just reading an article that says 17% of American households are
OTA only but most are city dwellers where an omnidirectional stick up
antenna from Amazon works.

Do you think their money is no good becase they are city dwellers? Do
you think they make different models for the city and the country?

And 17% is plenty.

I think the number of customers using rotors does not justify that
software, more correctly Sony doesn't think it does.
City folks can usually get a picture with a coat hanger.

Someone might make one that has the software to aim a rotor and select
channels that way but I am not aware of it. Until then he is stuck
with scanning the tower with the most stations and manually adding the
rest.

On 8/25/20 9:15 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

OTOH we had to rescan about a month ago and that was the first time in
more than 2 years. More than 5 years?

We had to rescan earlier this year, just because of a new subchannel
(56-4, AntennaTV) that the local NBC station added.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The whole tone of Church teaching in regard to women is, to the last
degree, contemptuous and degrading." [Elizabeth Cady Stanton]

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:09:25 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 8/24/20 10:30 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

I'm curious to hear why you think cable encryption has anything to do with
getting "BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV".

Cable encryption means the TVs tuner is useless for cable, so you need
their box which doesn't use the tuner. Therefore, it is available for
antenna use.

Oh, I think I see. You were referring to a TV that has a single tuner that
can be used for cable _or_ OTA. I've never seen such a thing, but I assume
they exist.

My last 4 TVs have had separate tuners (and separate inputs) for OTA and
cable, plus multiple HDMI inputs, so cable encryption hasn't made any
difference here.

Separate tuners sounds like a good idea, but fully encrypted cable means
you can't use one for cable.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On 8/25/20 2:42 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

Scanning is done so you can use the Channel Up button on the tv or
remote and it will only stop at channels that were found during
scanning. Unless scanning was never done or was erased. Then Channel
Up stops at every channel.

Scan is never necessary.

Tuning without a scan would require knowing the actual (RF) channel
number, that's something ordinary users aren't supposed to be able to
understand. Also, how are subchannels really selected?

Since its digital, by the id.

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:37:46 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:09:25 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 8/24/20 10:30 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

I'm curious to hear why you think cable encryption has anything to do with
getting "BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV".

Cable encryption means the TVs tuner is useless for cable, so you need
their box which doesn't use the tuner. Therefore, it is available for
antenna use.

Oh, I think I see. You were referring to a TV that has a single tuner that
can be used for cable _or_ OTA. I've never seen such a thing, but I assume
they exist.

Are you confusing tuners with inputs?
The only tuner I have ever seen was behind the F-59 connector. It has
a wide enough mouth to see all of the broadcast channels and the cable
channels if they are not encrypted. The others are simply decoders
that present the component, composite, S-video or HDMI inputs to the
display processor. HDMI also includes DRM hardware. That is why
content providers push it.

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 03:44:48 +1000, "%%" wrote:



"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On 8/25/20 2:42 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

Scanning is done so you can use the Channel Up button on the tv or
remote and it will only stop at channels that were found during
scanning. Unless scanning was never done or was erased. Then Channel
Up stops at every channel.

Scan is never necessary.

Tuning without a scan would require knowing the actual (RF) channel
number, that's something ordinary users aren't supposed to be able to
understand. Also, how are subchannels really selected?

Since its digital, by the id.

It still needs to know what frequency the channel is on. This is not
like the old NTSC days, Channel 11 is probably on UHF not high band
VHF.
My TIVO actually tells you what broadcast frequencies each channel is
on in one of the set up screens. It also gives you the opportunity to
add channels the tuner never saw based on what was downloaded in the
channel guide.
I am not sure TVs are that smart tho.

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 17:26:56 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:37:46 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:09:25 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 8/24/20 10:30 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

I'm curious to hear why you think cable encryption has anything to do with
getting "BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV".

Cable encryption means the TVs tuner is useless for cable, so you need
their box which doesn't use the tuner. Therefore, it is available for
antenna use.

Oh, I think I see. You were referring to a TV that has a single tuner that
can be used for cable _or_ OTA. I've never seen such a thing, but I assume
they exist.

Are you confusing tuners with inputs?

No, but on each of my last 4 TV's there has been two tuners, each with its
own input, and that seems to be different for Mark and his TV.

The only tuner I have ever seen was behind the F-59 connector. It has
a wide enough mouth to see all of the broadcast channels and the cable
channels if they are not encrypted.

OTA signals would require an ATSC tuner, while (encrypted/unencrypted)
cable signals would require a QAM tuner, right? AFAIK, both tuners can be
consolidated into a single module with a single 75-Ohm F59 input connector,
although I don't remember seeing that configuration. My TVs have two F59
inputs, although I use neither of them. I only use a single HDMI input on 3
TVs, and two HDMI inputs on the 4th TV.

The others are simply decoders
that present the component, composite, S-video or HDMI inputs to the
display processor. HDMI also includes DRM hardware. That is why
content providers push it.

I push HDMI because it uses a single cable for HD video and audio, so it's
super convenient. HDCP hasn't bothered me so far.

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 20:51:11 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 17:26:56 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:37:46 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:09:25 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 8/24/20 10:30 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

I'm curious to hear why you think cable encryption has anything to do with
getting "BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV".

Cable encryption means the TVs tuner is useless for cable, so you need
their box which doesn't use the tuner. Therefore, it is available for
antenna use.

Oh, I think I see. You were referring to a TV that has a single tuner that
can be used for cable _or_ OTA. I've never seen such a thing, but I assume
they exist.

Are you confusing tuners with inputs?

No, but on each of my last 4 TV's there has been two tuners, each with its
own input, and that seems to be different for Mark and his TV.

The only tuner I have ever seen was behind the F-59 connector. It has
a wide enough mouth to see all of the broadcast channels and the cable
channels if they are not encrypted.

OTA signals would require an ATSC tuner, while (encrypted/unencrypted)
cable signals would require a QAM tuner, right? AFAIK, both tuners can be
consolidated into a single module with a single 75-Ohm F59 input connector,
although I don't remember seeing that configuration. My TVs have two F59
inputs, although I use neither of them. I only use a single HDMI input on 3
TVs, and two HDMI inputs on the 4th TV.

A I have only seen one F59 on any I have looked at but they do have a
tuner with a wide mouth that can do QAM or ATSC


The others are simply decoders
that present the component, composite, S-video or HDMI inputs to the
display processor. HDMI also includes DRM hardware. That is why
content providers push it.

I push HDMI because it uses a single cable for HD video and audio, so it's
super convenient. HDCP hasn't bothered me so far.

HDMI is only a problem for people who want to copy movies.
Typically they will let SD stuff through but it will blue screen on a
copyrighted HD movie. There are work arounds but I have never pursued
it. When you can buy DVDs for a buck or two, why bother?

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:20:58 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 8/25/20 9:15 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

OTOH we had to rescan about a month ago and that was the first time in
more than 2 years. More than 5 years?

We had to rescan earlier this year, just because of a new subchannel
(56-4, AntennaTV) that the local NBC station added.

So does that mean if you hadn't rescanned, you'd still have gotten all
the channels but that one.

Could you have just punched in 56,4 and the tv would find it, and then
ou could add it to the internal list, but they said to rescan because
that's a simple instruction and applies to everyone, whereas the
instructions for adding a station vary by tv.

[snip]

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 25 Aug 2020 12:20:52 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 03:42:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 22:36:34 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:54:13 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:01:17 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 04:33:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 10:46:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...
Etc ...

Anyone know how to make it do that ? Most of our TVs are Sony(s).
Thanks

Adding channels manually is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Any other options ?

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems.

Nonsense. They wouldn't scan multiple cable inputs eiher, without
erasing the earlier ones.

My two Samsungs pick up inputs on the fly, no scan necessary as does
the no name TV in the back room and the Panasonic in the shop. Plug it

Do you mean you can enter 1 3 and it picks up channel 13? Yes of
course.

Scanning is done so you can use the Channel Up button on the tv or
remote and it will only stop at channels that were found during
scanning. Unless scanning was never done or was erased. Then Channel
Up stops at every channel.

Scan is never necessary.

I was referring to your statement that you have to scan for inputs.


in, it shows up on the input menu as "hot" (the rest are grayed out).
I have never actually seen a TV that didn't work that way and we have
always had a bunch here.


They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

TV makers go where the money is.
Don't argue with me, I am not the OP complaining that Sony did not

One is only allowed to argue with an OP?

envision people with antenna rotators when they designed their set but
I bet that is a pretty small market share.

And how much does it cost to put in the OTA software?. Almost nothing.
To put in the OTA hardware? About a dollar.

If you sell a million TVs that is a million dollars. It is like GM not
putting the 87 cent detent in the ignition switches in a bunch of
cars. If they don't think they need it, the bean counters say don't do
it.

You could use the same logic about every feature in the tv and when you
were done all the t v's would be the lowest priced model, no good ones.

What matters is what they actually do, not what some cost cuttting
theory says they might do.

I say what they do is charge 287 dollars for the tv instead 286.



I was just reading an article that says 17% of American households are
OTA only but most are city dwellers where an omnidirectional stick up
antenna from Amazon works.

Do you think their money is no good becase they are city dwellers? Do
you think they make different models for the city and the country?

And 17% is plenty.

I think the number of customers using rotors does not justify that
software, more correctly Sony doesn't think it does.

We're not talking about rotors, but about OTA tuners.

You were the one who brought up 17% and I never for a moment thought
that was the percentage that had rotors. My answer had nothing to do
with rotors.

Using a rotor doesn't add anything to the cost of a tv tuner.

City folks can usually get a picture with a coat hanger.

Regardless of antenna, they can't get any OTA stations if they don't
also have an OTA tuner. You were claiming they didn't have an OTA
tuner because it added a little to the price.

Someone might make one that has the software to aim a rotor and select
channels that way but I am not aware of it. Until then he is stuck
with scanning the tower with the most stations and manually adding the
rest.

On Monday, August 24, 2020 at 9:18:53 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 8/24/20 3:54 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

It doesn't sound like it with the software on your set. TVs are not
really designed for OTA it seems.

Nonsense. They wouldn't scan multiple cable inputs eiher, without
erasing the earlier ones.

Some (most?) cable systems now encrypt everything, requiring you to use
their box instead of the TV tuner.

Because of this I can get BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV.

They add it as an afterthought and
only meet the minimum government requirement.

So the TV makers were planning to ignore the millions of people who
didn't have cable. LOL

So antenna users need an add-on tuner and those without an antenna don't
have to pay for it.

I would expect that the HDTV tuner part doesn't add much real cost to
a TV, that most of it is integrated into the chipset to begin with.
The cost to the manufacturers and selling chain to have two similar
models, one with and one without probably exceeds the cost of putting
it in both.





I am seeing more "monitor only" TVs these days with no tuner at all,
just some HDMI ports and maybe a combo set of composite/componant
jacks.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." --
Clarence Darrow

On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 12:37:50 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:09:25 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 8/24/20 10:30 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

I'm curious to hear why you think cable encryption has anything to do with
getting "BOTH cable and antenna on the same TV".

Cable encryption means the TVs tuner is useless for cable, so you need
their box which doesn't use the tuner. Therefore, it is available for
antenna use.

Oh, I think I see. You were referring to a TV that has a single tuner that
can be used for cable _or_ OTA. I've never seen such a thing, but I assume
they exist.

They existed decades ago when NTSC TVs just had RF input and cable boxes had
RF output. Then you had Mark's scenario, but that's been a very long time
ago, NTSC broadcast ended over a decade ago.

On Monday, August 24, 2020 at 5:00:04 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 14:31:19 -0400, Peter
wrote:

On 8/24/2020 12:03 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:46:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

We have an antenna tower with a antenna rotor.
How do I auto program the channels with the rotor in use ?
Every time you start the programming, it wipes the previous channels.

I want to be able to set the antenna in one direction, Search ...
Set the antenna in another direction, Search ...

It's going to be the same set of answers you got when you asked this
question a few weeks ago.

Disconnect and optionally remove the rotor. Add a second (or more) antenna
and use a combiner so that your tuner app thinks it's all a single antenna.

Use one of the OTA antenna websites to determine where the stations are
broadcasting from in your area.

Have you tried mounting an omnidirectional antenna on your tower,

Even without the other steps below, doesn't this sound like a lot more
time and effort than adding stations manually?


perhaps with a low noise uhf/vhf amplifier, connecting that setup to
your TV temporarily, re-scanning, and seeing whether you receive all the
stations you desire/expect? You might even be able to find someone to
loan those items to you, or allow you to purchase them with a guaranteed
refund if they are "unsatisfactory". Assuming it does, then disconnect
that setup, reconnect your rotor controlled directional antenna and dial
the rotor direction for each station providing the best reception. Web
sites, such as /www.antennasdirect.com/transmitter-locator.html
www.antennaweb.org and others easily located with a web search can help
you determine if the strategy has been successful.

You would sure think so. Of course stations are added, move, etc so it may
need updating occasionally, but still, sounds like manually adding them is
the way I would do it. You'd think TV manufacturers might have thought of
this and provided a feature where it will save what's there, but allow
you to move the antenna and scan those in too. But I guess not.

On 8/25/20 4:26 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Oh, I think I see. You were referring to a TV that has a single tuner that
can be used for cable _or_ OTA. I've never seen such a thing, but I assume
they exist.

Are you confusing tuners with inputs?
The only tuner I have ever seen was behind the F-59 connector. It has
a wide enough mouth to see all of the broadcast channels and the cable
channels if they are not encrypted. The others are simply decoders
that present the component, composite, S-video or HDMI inputs to the
display processor. HDMI also includes DRM hardware. That is why
content providers push it.

I have heard of 2-tuner TVs, but never seen one.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Religion is all bunk." -- Thomas Edison

On 8/25/20 8:51 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

The only tuner I have ever seen was behind the F-59 connector. It has
a wide enough mouth to see all of the broadcast channels and the cable
channels if they are not encrypted.

OTA signals would require an ATSC tuner, while (encrypted/unencrypted)
cable signals would require a QAM tuner, right?

An encrypted cable signal might be TUNABLE with that QAM tuner, but the
result would be useless.

AFAIK, both tuners can be
consolidated into a single module with a single 75-Ohm F59 input connector,
although I don't remember seeing that configuration.

It probably can't accept both connections at the same time. This would
require combining the signals, probably impossible because of frequency
conflicts.

My TV does REMEMBER both (OTA and cable) but only one can be connected
at a time.

My TVs have two F59
inputs, although I use neither of them. I only use a single HDMI input on 3
TVs, and two HDMI inputs on the 4th TV.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Religion is all bunk." -- Thomas Edison