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Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed!

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 05:19:07 +1000, Joshua Snow, better known as
cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:23:43 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.


When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.


Contact tracing does not only apply to kids.


If the kids are the vector, as this thread implies, my statement
stands. You have 1000 kids per school from a dozen different
neighborhoods scattered out across the county who are in different
groups, close together (different classes, different buses and
different play groups at home), How many contacts do you think are in
that tree alone. Then toss in everyone else in those 12,000 homes who
probably work in jobs with dozens if not hundreds of contacts. The
numbers are incomprehensible.
That is why I tend to agree, schools might be a dangerous place to
experiment.
Unfortunately the alternative is pretty ugly too because the kids
worst affected by a deficient education are exactly the ones from the
families most at risk, both from the virus but also from crime,
poverty and drug abuse.

Nobody wants to talk about that.


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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:44:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:35:22 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.


And states like FL let Covid get so out of control that tracing is
impossible now. Who's going to track down all the contacts for 10,000
cases a day? Also tests are taking a week to process. By the time
you get the results, it's too late. Welcome to Trump's America.
We've fallen badly and can't get up. Besides the sickness and death
our enemies have taken note too. Trump can't beat Covid, why should
anyone think he's any better at beating them?



The spike in Florida was when we opened the "meet market" bars and the
people most affected were those customers. No shock there. Tracing is
pretty silly when these people don't even know the real name of the
ones they are dancing with, passing joints to, making out with and
****ing.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.


When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.


It's a joke in FL because your governor and state screwed up badly.
You can't contact trace when you have 10K new cases a day. But you
can when you have a few hundred, like NJ, NY, CT. That was what the
shutdown, the sheltering was supposed to achieve. We did it here.
And we told you at the time what would happen. Instead of learning
from China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU, NJ, NY, CT keep following Trump
over the cliff.



Tracing only works if each person has a manageable number of contacts
and they can identify each one of them. With "kids" (well up into the
millennials), that is ridiculous.
The only thing we proved that worked is house arrest and banning any
groups of people assembling along with closing any business that
involves any close contact.
I have been saying all along, as soon as you open those things up,
that virus is still out there waiting for you and it only takes one
infected person to start a wave.
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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 05:19:07 +1000, "Joshua Snow"
wrote:



"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 7/17/2020 3:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Wow, the White House is blocking the CDC from testifying about school
openings. Forget science, just listen to the President, he knows best.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...ongress-367935
The White House is blocking CDC officials from testifying next week at a
hearing on reopening schools, the House Education and Labor Committee
told POLITICO on Friday.

Separately, the CDC confirmed that more guidance for opening schools
won't be released until later this month.

Committee Chair Bobby Scott had invited CDC Director Robert Redfield, or
a designee, to testify before the Early Childhood, Elementary and
Secondary Education Subcommittee on July 23 at a hearing on safely
reopening schools.



"
As school districts around the United States debate when and how to reopen
schools, a large new study from South Korea offers a note of caution. It
found that children between the ages of 10 and 19 can spread the virus at
least as well as adults do, suggesting that middle and high schools in
particular may seed new clusters of infection.

Children younger than 10 transmit to others much less often, the study
found, although the risk is not zero. That is consistent with what many
other studies have reported.

Several experts said that the study was carefully done and that the
results suggested schools should have concrete plans in place for dealing
with outbreaks before reopening.

I fear that there has been this sense that kids just wont get infected
or dont get infected in the same way as adults and that, therefore, theyre
almost like a bubbled population, said Michael Osterholm, an infectious
diseases expert at the University of Minnesota.

There will be transmission, Dr. Osterholm said. What we have to do is
accept that now and include that in our plans.


We know that there is transmission, 165 positives in one of our schools
and Israel has had a much worse result in their schools now.


Add to that, a whole lot of states are still living with busing orders
left over from 50 years ago and the kids in schools are not even
grouped by neighborhoods. One outbreak in a government desegregated
school will quickly spread out across the county on crowded school
buses.
I can't think of a better way to distribute a virus.


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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:44:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:35:22 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't. No, No, No. This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the
rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party. If we had only
looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be
totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything
up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran
$100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative
ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.


And states like FL let Covid get so out of control that tracing is
impossible now. Who's going to track down all the contacts for 10,000
cases a day? Also tests are taking a week to process. By the time
you get the results, it's too late. Welcome to Trump's America.
We've fallen badly and can't get up. Besides the sickness and death
our enemies have taken note too. Trump can't beat Covid, why should
anyone think he's any better at beating them?


The spike in Florida was when we opened the "meet market"
bars and the people most affected were those customers.


Thats very arguable indeed with the massive numbers seen with ag labourers.


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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no,
the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what
works,
what
doesn't. No, No, No. This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the
rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party. If we had only
looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be
totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open
anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really
think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran
$100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative
ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week?
Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you
can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the
virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.


It's a joke in FL because your governor and state screwed up badly.
You can't contact trace when you have 10K new cases a day. But you
can when you have a few hundred, like NJ, NY, CT. That was what the
shutdown, the sheltering was supposed to achieve. We did it here.
And we told you at the time what would happen. Instead of learning
from China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU, NJ, NY, CT keep following Trump
over the cliff.



Tracing only works if each person has a manageable number of contacts
and they can identify each one of them. With "kids" (well up into the
millennials), that is ridiculous.
The only thing we proved that worked is house arrest and banning any
groups of people assembling along with closing any business that
involves any close contact.
I have been saying all along, as soon as you open those things up,
that virus is still out there waiting for you and it only takes one
infected person to start a wave.


How odd that it didnt in New Zealand or Taiwan or Vietnam.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On 7/19/2020 4:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:23:43 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 11:06 AM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.


Contact tracing does not only apply to kids.


If the kids are the vector, as this thread implies, my statement
stands. You have 1000 kids per school from a dozen different
neighborhoods scattered out across the county who are in different
groups, close together (different classes, different buses and
different play groups at home), How many contacts do you think are in
that tree alone. Then toss in everyone else in those 12,000 homes who
probably work in jobs with dozens if not hundreds of contacts. The
numbers are incomprehensible.
That is why I tend to agree, schools might be a dangerous place to
experiment.
Unfortunately the alternative is pretty ugly too because the kids
worst affected by a deficient education are exactly the ones from the
families most at risk, both from the virus but also from crime,
poverty and drug abuse.

Nobody wants to talk about that.


My Catholic high school had 3200 boys, the girls school had near that
and the public school 2500. What do you want to track? That is just
one portion of Philadelphia.
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Default Lonely Obnoxious Cantankerous Auto-contradicting Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:14:39 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:
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Default Lonely Obnoxious Cantankerous Auto-contradicting Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:13:06 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:


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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:13:06 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:44:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:35:22 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't. No, No, No. This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the
rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party. If we had only
looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be
totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything
up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran
$100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative
ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

And states like FL let Covid get so out of control that tracing is
impossible now. Who's going to track down all the contacts for 10,000
cases a day? Also tests are taking a week to process. By the time
you get the results, it's too late. Welcome to Trump's America.
We've fallen badly and can't get up. Besides the sickness and death
our enemies have taken note too. Trump can't beat Covid, why should
anyone think he's any better at beating them?


The spike in Florida was when we opened the "meet market"
bars and the people most affected were those customers.


Thats very arguable indeed with the massive numbers seen with ag labourers.

The ag labor problem predated the real spike but it was a factor. It
was the Anglo millennials who spiked the coastal counties. Whether
that was the source of the infections that permeated the clubs is very
possible tho. They did open the Immokalee (ag area) casino right about
then. A lot of those same latinos, do work as cleaners and kitchen
help in the casino.
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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:14:39 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no,
the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what
works,
what
doesn't. No, No, No. This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the
rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party. If we had only
looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be
totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open
anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really
think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran
$100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative
ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week?
Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you
can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the
virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.

It's a joke in FL because your governor and state screwed up badly.
You can't contact trace when you have 10K new cases a day. But you
can when you have a few hundred, like NJ, NY, CT. That was what the
shutdown, the sheltering was supposed to achieve. We did it here.
And we told you at the time what would happen. Instead of learning
from China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU, NJ, NY, CT keep following Trump
over the cliff.



Tracing only works if each person has a manageable number of contacts
and they can identify each one of them. With "kids" (well up into the
millennials), that is ridiculous.
The only thing we proved that worked is house arrest and banning any
groups of people assembling along with closing any business that
involves any close contact.
I have been saying all along, as soon as you open those things up,
that virus is still out there waiting for you and it only takes one
infected person to start a wave.


How odd that it didnt in New Zealand or Taiwan or Vietnam.


We never had any meaningful quarantines or travel restrictions.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:32:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/19/2020 4:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:23:43 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 11:06 AM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.


Contact tracing does not only apply to kids.


If the kids are the vector, as this thread implies, my statement
stands. You have 1000 kids per school from a dozen different
neighborhoods scattered out across the county who are in different
groups, close together (different classes, different buses and
different play groups at home), How many contacts do you think are in
that tree alone. Then toss in everyone else in those 12,000 homes who
probably work in jobs with dozens if not hundreds of contacts. The
numbers are incomprehensible.
That is why I tend to agree, schools might be a dangerous place to
experiment.
Unfortunately the alternative is pretty ugly too because the kids
worst affected by a deficient education are exactly the ones from the
families most at risk, both from the virus but also from crime,
poverty and drug abuse.

Nobody wants to talk about that.


My Catholic high school had 3200 boys, the girls school had near that
and the public school 2500. What do you want to track? That is just
one portion of Philadelphia.


A private school, pulling kids in from all over the city might
actually be a pretty good analog but the public system multiplies that
by dozens of schools
Lee County has 49 elementary schools, 20 middle schools and 15 high
schools (some bigger than others, particularly at the elementary
level)
We have total "school choice". You can pretty much go to any school in
the county you want with a few restrictions. The District has "718
school buses transporting students to schools and home ... traveling
over 12.3 million miles each school year". (from their web site).
Some buses can hold 72 kids.
Track that.
  #54   Report Post  
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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:13:06 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:44:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:35:22 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no,
the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup,
even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what
works,
what
doesn't. No, No, No. This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the
rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party. If we had only
looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be
totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and
tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open
anything
up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really
think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the
old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran
$100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative
ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week?
Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you
can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the
virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means
EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

And states like FL let Covid get so out of control that tracing is
impossible now. Who's going to track down all the contacts for 10,000
cases a day? Also tests are taking a week to process. By the time
you get the results, it's too late. Welcome to Trump's America.
We've fallen badly and can't get up. Besides the sickness and death
our enemies have taken note too. Trump can't beat Covid, why should
anyone think he's any better at beating them?


The spike in Florida was when we opened the "meet market"
bars and the people most affected were those customers.


Thats very arguable indeed with the massive numbers seen with ag
labourers.

The ag labor problem predated the real spike but it was a factor.


Yep, the real terminal stupidity was pulling the plug on the
lockdown FAR too early. If Florida was a country it would in
fact be the fourth worst result in the entire ****ing world.

And it isnt a spike either, it is in fact a complete
disaster even worse then China or Italy got.

It was the Anglo millennials who spiked the coastal counties.


But those are only a small part of Florida.

Whether that was the source of the infections
that permeated the clubs is very possible tho.


Yes, but it remains to be seen if those are the main problem.

They did open the Immokalee (ag area) casino right about then.
A lot of those same latinos, do work as cleaners and kitchen
help in the casino.


And it remains to be seen what disneyland etc will do. It may work out
not so bad because they are mostly outside, but that remains to be seen.

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Posts: 40,893
Default School Opening -- The King has spoken



wrote in message
news
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:14:39 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock,
excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no,
the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup,
even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what
works,
what
doesn't. No, No, No. This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw
the
rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party. If we had only
looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be
totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and
tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open
anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000
others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really
think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the
old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran
$100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative
ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for
$5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week?
Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's
your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you
can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the
virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means
EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.

It's a joke in FL because your governor and state screwed up badly.
You can't contact trace when you have 10K new cases a day. But you
can when you have a few hundred, like NJ, NY, CT. That was what the
shutdown, the sheltering was supposed to achieve. We did it here.
And we told you at the time what would happen. Instead of learning
from China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU, NJ, NY, CT keep following Trump
over the cliff.



Tracing only works if each person has a manageable number of contacts
and they can identify each one of them. With "kids" (well up into the
millennials), that is ridiculous.
The only thing we proved that worked is house arrest and banning any
groups of people assembling along with closing any business that
involves any close contact.
I have been saying all along, as soon as you open those things up,
that virus is still out there waiting for you and it only takes one
infected person to start a wave.


How odd that it didnt in New Zealand or Taiwan or Vietnam.


We never had any meaningful quarantines or travel restrictions.


Yep, you lot actually were that completely stupid. Taiwan and Vietnam didnt
either.



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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 12:13:49 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
It was the Anglo millennials who spiked the coastal counties.


But those are only a small part of Florida.


That is still where the top of the curve is, slap in the middle of the
Millennium generation (avg age of new cases 28-29)


Whether that was the source of the infections
that permeated the clubs is very possible tho.


Yes, but it remains to be seen if those are the main problem.

They did open the Immokalee (ag area) casino right about then.
A lot of those same latinos, do work as cleaners and kitchen
help in the casino.


And it remains to be seen what disneyland etc will do. It may work out
not so bad because they are mostly outside, but that remains to be seen.


I think it is a dumb idea but if they don't do something all of those
parks will be bankrupt and Orlando will be back trying to scratch out
a living with oranges and cattle.
I suppose they can tear down all those homes and let it revert to
pasture and groves. Lake O would be better for it.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 12:13:49 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
It was the Anglo millennials who spiked the coastal counties.


But those are only a small part of Florida.


That is still where the top of the curve is, slap in the middle
of the Millennium generation (avg age of new cases 28-29)


For now, until they take it home. That's what happened in Italy too.

Whether that was the source of the infections
that permeated the clubs is very possible tho.


Yes, but it remains to be seen if those are the main problem.

They did open the Immokalee (ag area) casino right about then.
A lot of those same latinos, do work as cleaners and kitchen
help in the casino.


And it remains to be seen what disneyland etc will do. It may work out
not so bad because they are mostly outside, but that remains to be seen.


I think it is a dumb idea but if they don't do something all
of those parks will be bankrupt and Orlando will be back
trying to scratch out a living with oranges and cattle.


Don't believe that if a viable vaccine is developed
or the virus dies out like SARS did.

I suppose they can tear down all those homes and let it
revert to pasture and groves. Lake O would be better for it.


Didn't happen like that with the spanish flu.

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Default Lonely Obnoxious Cantankerous Auto-contradicting Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 12:15:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:
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Default "Who or What is Rod Speed?"

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 12:13:49 +1000, "Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rodent Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:
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Default Lonely Obnoxious Cantankerous Auto-contradicting Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 13:57:38 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
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your self esteem."
Message-ID:


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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 4:25:44 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000..
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.


It's a joke in FL because your governor and state screwed up badly.
You can't contact trace when you have 10K new cases a day. But you
can when you have a few hundred, like NJ, NY, CT. That was what the
shutdown, the sheltering was supposed to achieve. We did it here.
And we told you at the time what would happen. Instead of learning
from China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU, NJ, NY, CT keep following Trump
over the cliff.



Tracing only works if each person has a manageable number of contacts
and they can identify each one of them. With "kids" (well up into the
millennials), that is ridiculous.


Please show us the epidemiologists that say contact tracing with kids
up through millenials doesn't work. If a kid in a school tests positive,
how hard is it to test all the kids in the school that he could have
had contact with? Oh, wait, you're right, it is hard. Not because
of the kids but because of the moron in the WH. We still do not have
adequate testing. It takes a week to get results, which is too long
for contact tracing to work. Also, contact tracing can't be done when
you have 10K cases a day like you do in FL. With 300, like here in NJ,
it is being done.




The only thing we proved that worked is house arrest and banning any
groups of people assembling along with closing any business that
involves any close contact.


There never was any house arrest. We put it down here in NJ, so did
NY, CT, China, Taiwan, South Korea. Trump, FL, TX, and the like
failed because they refused to do what works.



I have been saying all along, as soon as you open those things up,
that virus is still out there waiting for you and it only takes one
infected person to start a wave.


Yet so far that has not happened here in NJ, NY, CT, not even in
crowded NYC. And none of those, none of the countries that have put
it down, have it down to zero either. But they do have it done to
very low levels, proving one person does not start another wave.
We never put down the first wave, that's the problem.






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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 7:51:38 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:14:39 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no,
the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what
works,
what
doesn't. No, No, No. This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the
rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party. If we had only
looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be
totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open
anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really
think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran
$100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative
ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 4:19:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:44:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:35:22 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.


And states like FL let Covid get so out of control that tracing is
impossible now. Who's going to track down all the contacts for 10,000
cases a day? Also tests are taking a week to process. By the time
you get the results, it's too late. Welcome to Trump's America.
We've fallen badly and can't get up. Besides the sickness and death
our enemies have taken note too. Trump can't beat Covid, why should
anyone think he's any better at beating them?



The spike in Florida was when we opened the "meet market" bars and the
people most affected were those customers. No shock there.


Yes it is shocking that you have a governor that stupid.




Tracing is
pretty silly when these people don't even know the real name of the
ones they are dancing with, passing joints to, making out with and
****ing.


Yet South Korea successfully handled exactly that. My how the US, the
country that put man on the moon, has fallen. We can't get up. That
problem will start to be fixed Jan 2021.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On 7/20/2020 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
And yet NY, NJ, CT etc successfully put Covid down. Imagine that.
If we had a uniform plan like those states implemented for the
whole country, had adequate testing, we would have it down.
Instead we wasted the four months that shutting down bought us.
Why can't you look and learn? Why do you just give up, accept
defeat? The country that put man on the moon has fallen so badly
it can't get up. So much for "make America great again".


Why not just buy all the pussified snowflakes some full hazmat suits and let the rest of us real Americans live our lives?

--
Demolitioncrats are destroying America!

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On 7/20/2020 10:00 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/20/2020 9:32 AM, Grumpy Old White Guy wrote:
On 7/20/2020 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
And yet NY, NJ, CT etc successfully put Covid down.* Imagine that.
If we had a uniform plan like those states implemented for the
whole country, had adequate testing, we would have it down.
Instead we wasted the four months that shutting down bought us.
Why can't you look and learn?* Why do you just give up, accept
defeat?* The country that put man on the moon has fallen so badly
it can't get up.* So much for "make America great again".


Why not just buy all the pussified snowflakes some full hazmat suits and let the rest of us real Americans live our lives?

With 10,000 new cases a day do you think that is enjoying life?



All that means is that we tested = 10,000 people,* MSM has a fresh fearmongering statistic and that some medical supply company is laughing all the way to the bank.




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Posts: 15,279
Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 1:40:43 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/19/2020 5:06 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:32:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/19/2020 4:14 PM,
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:23:43 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 11:06 AM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.

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Posts: 15,279
Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 2:33:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 10:40:36 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 5:06 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:32:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/19/2020 4:14 PM,
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:23:43 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 11:06 AM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 8:13:08 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/20/2020 4:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:25:04 GMT,
(Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 10:40:36 -0700, Bob F wrote:




And again, it is not about testing all the kids. It is about having an
adequate testing and tracking system on top of having controlled the
virus so that you can test and track and keep up with the virus. Europe
is doing that. China and Korea are, and many other countries are doing
that. But the Repubs have ignored, poo-pooed, and dismissed this very
basic process to stop covid.

If you put 1000 kids in a school and stir them up all day,

Strawman noted. And particularly
in the days of SARS-CoV-2, there will be social distancing
and masks for 3-12th graders, so contact tracing will be much
more practical than you think.

That is pretty hard to do with 30-40 kids in a crowded classroom or 75
kids on a bus. Once they get to 7th grade they are also going to
different classes 6 or 7 times a day, increasing the mix. You also
seem to have a lot more faith in the school's ability to enforce masks
and distancing. They have enough trouble keeping them from smoking
dope and having sex in the bathrooms.


It works in the other countries that have flattened (and in some
cases eliminated) the curve.


The cases were under control before the schools were opened.


And that is EXACTLY what trump is ordering states not to do.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. Interesting that Fretwell hasn't pointed
out that Trump is the one demanding that all schools must open.
Threatening to cut funding if they don't, regardless of the infection rate,
the situation in the actual schools.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 7:50:08 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/20/2020 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 05:46:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 4:19:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:44:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:35:22 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On 7/20/2020 8:27 PM, Roger Oveur wrote:
On 7/20/2020 10:00 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/20/2020 9:32 AM, Grumpy Old White Guy wrote:
On 7/20/2020 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
And yet NY, NJ, CT etc successfully put Covid down.* Imagine that.
If we had a uniform plan like those states implemented for the
whole country, had adequate testing, we would have it down.
Instead we wasted the four months that shutting down bought us.
Why can't you look and learn?* Why do you just give up, accept
defeat?* The country that put man on the moon has fallen so badly
it can't get up.* So much for "make America great again".

Why not just buy all the pussified snowflakes some full hazmat suits
and let the rest of us real Americans live our lives?

With 10,000 new cases a day do you think that is enjoying life?



All that means is that we tested = 10,000 people,* MSM has a fresh
fearmongering statistic and that some medical supply company is laughing
all the way to the bank.


Explain why the hospitals have been filling up in some states. Many
have controlled it but some are losing the battle. Florida was not too
bad in April but 52 hospitals now have no ICU beds. Surely you can see
that is not good.


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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:44:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 2:33:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 10:40:36 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 5:06 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:32:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/19/2020 4:14 PM,
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:23:43 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 11:06 AM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.


Contact tracing does not only apply to kids.

If the kids are the vector, as this thread implies, my statement
stands. You have 1000 kids per school from a dozen different
neighborhoods scattered out across the county who are in different
groups, close together (different classes, different buses and
different play groups at home), How many contacts do you think are in
that tree alone. Then toss in everyone else in those 12,000 homes who
probably work in jobs with dozens if not hundreds of contacts. The
numbers are incomprehensible.
That is why I tend to agree, schools might be a dangerous place to
experiment.
Unfortunately the alternative is pretty ugly too because the kids
worst affected by a deficient education are exactly the ones from the
families most at risk, both from the virus but also from crime,
poverty and drug abuse.

Nobody wants to talk about that.


My Catholic high school had 3200 boys, the girls school had near that
and the public school 2500. What do you want to track? That is just
one portion of Philadelphia.

A private school, pulling kids in from all over the city might
actually be a pretty good analog but the public system multiplies that
by dozens of schools
Lee County has 49 elementary schools, 20 middle schools and 15 high
schools (some bigger than others, particularly at the elementary
level)
We have total "school choice". You can pretty much go to any school in
the county you want with a few restrictions. The District has "718
school buses transporting students to schools and home ... traveling
over 12.3 million miles each school year". (from their web site).
Some buses can hold 72 kids.
Track that.


And again, it is not about testing all the kids. It is about having an
adequate testing and tracking system on top of having controlled the
virus so that you can test and track and keep up with the virus. Europe
is doing that. China and Korea are, and many other countries are doing
that. But the Repubs have ignored, poo-pooed, and dismissed this very
basic process to stop covid.


If you put 1000 kids in a school and stir them up all day,


When you went to school did you have contact with the entire
school? I sure didn't.



then put
them on buses and scatter them across the county in no logical orderu


Wow, things must be really more screwed in FL than I thought.
You just load kids on buses and scatter them everywhere in no logical
order?




any meaningful tracking would have to include all of them as a group.
Then you would have to trace all of their friends in the neighborhood
that they don't go to school with and the family.

How many other countries have the level of cross county busing as the
US does, particularly in states that lived under deseg orders for 30
years? Our school bus system logs 12.6 million miles a year shuttling
kids around for 180 days of classes. That is 70,000 miles a day using
over 700 buses. (from the Lee school board web site)




You know, maybe Trump should just pick a day for the whole country
to commit mass suicide. We might as well, it's all hopeless. The
country that won WWII and put man on the moon is incapable of tracking,
incapable of social distancing, incapable of wearing masks. Let;s
all just kill our selves. Or we could look at China, South Korea,
Taiwan, City of Hong Kong, NY, NJ, CT and learn.


This refusal to learn from other countries that are obviously doing better
than we are is what some Trump supporters call 'putting America first.'
It doesn't seem like it's working out very well.

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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:13:03 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/20/2020 4:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:25:04 GMT,
(Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 10:40:36 -0700, Bob F wrote:




And again, it is not about testing all the kids. It is about having an
adequate testing and tracking system on top of having controlled the
virus so that you can test and track and keep up with the virus. Europe
is doing that. China and Korea are, and many other countries are doing
that. But the Repubs have ignored, poo-pooed, and dismissed this very
basic process to stop covid.

If you put 1000 kids in a school and stir them up all day,

Strawman noted. And particularly
in the days of SARS-CoV-2, there will be social distancing
and masks for 3-12th graders, so contact tracing will be much
more practical than you think.

That is pretty hard to do with 30-40 kids in a crowded classroom or 75
kids on a bus. Once they get to 7th grade they are also going to
different classes 6 or 7 times a day, increasing the mix. You also
seem to have a lot more faith in the school's ability to enforce masks
and distancing. They have enough trouble keeping them from smoking
dope and having sex in the bathrooms.


It works in the other countries that have flattened (and in some
cases eliminated) the curve.


The cases were under control before the schools were opened.


And that is EXACTLY what trump is ordering states not to do.


Your knee is jerking again. I said Trump was wrong but you
automatically disagreed with me without even reading my post.
You folks are making excuses saying we could test and trace our way
out of this and it is ridiculous when we are seeing thousands of new
cases a day.
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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:44:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 2:33:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 10:40:36 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 5:06 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:32:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/19/2020 4:14 PM,
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:23:43 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 11:06 AM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.


Contact tracing does not only apply to kids.

If the kids are the vector, as this thread implies, my statement
stands. You have 1000 kids per school from a dozen different
neighborhoods scattered out across the county who are in different
groups, close together (different classes, different buses and
different play groups at home), How many contacts do you think are in
that tree alone. Then toss in everyone else in those 12,000 homes who
probably work in jobs with dozens if not hundreds of contacts. The
numbers are incomprehensible.
That is why I tend to agree, schools might be a dangerous place to
experiment.
Unfortunately the alternative is pretty ugly too because the kids
worst affected by a deficient education are exactly the ones from the
families most at risk, both from the virus but also from crime,
poverty and drug abuse.

Nobody wants to talk about that.


My Catholic high school had 3200 boys, the girls school had near that
and the public school 2500. What do you want to track? That is just
one portion of Philadelphia.

A private school, pulling kids in from all over the city might
actually be a pretty good analog but the public system multiplies that
by dozens of schools
Lee County has 49 elementary schools, 20 middle schools and 15 high
schools (some bigger than others, particularly at the elementary
level)
We have total "school choice". You can pretty much go to any school in
the county you want with a few restrictions. The District has "718
school buses transporting students to schools and home ... traveling
over 12.3 million miles each school year". (from their web site).
Some buses can hold 72 kids.
Track that.


And again, it is not about testing all the kids. It is about having an
adequate testing and tracking system on top of having controlled the
virus so that you can test and track and keep up with the virus. Europe
is doing that. China and Korea are, and many other countries are doing
that. But the Repubs have ignored, poo-pooed, and dismissed this very
basic process to stop covid.


If you put 1000 kids in a school and stir them up all day,


When you went to school did you have contact with the entire
school? I sure didn't.



then put
them on buses and scatter them across the county in no logical orderu


Wow, things must be really more screwed in FL than I thought.
You just load kids on buses and scatter them everywhere in no logical
order?


Blame the DoJ. It was the desegregation orders that caused us to go to
free school choice, just to get them off our back.



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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:46:32 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 8:13:08 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/20/2020 4:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:25:04 GMT,
(Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 10:40:36 -0700, Bob F wrote:




And again, it is not about testing all the kids. It is about having an
adequate testing and tracking system on top of having controlled the
virus so that you can test and track and keep up with the virus. Europe
is doing that. China and Korea are, and many other countries are doing
that. But the Repubs have ignored, poo-pooed, and dismissed this very
basic process to stop covid.

If you put 1000 kids in a school and stir them up all day,

Strawman noted. And particularly
in the days of SARS-CoV-2, there will be social distancing
and masks for 3-12th graders, so contact tracing will be much
more practical than you think.

That is pretty hard to do with 30-40 kids in a crowded classroom or 75
kids on a bus. Once they get to 7th grade they are also going to
different classes 6 or 7 times a day, increasing the mix. You also
seem to have a lot more faith in the school's ability to enforce masks
and distancing. They have enough trouble keeping them from smoking
dope and having sex in the bathrooms.


It works in the other countries that have flattened (and in some
cases eliminated) the curve.


The cases were under control before the schools were opened.


And that is EXACTLY what trump is ordering states not to do.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. Interesting that Fretwell hasn't pointed
out that Trump is the one demanding that all schools must open.
Threatening to cut funding if they don't, regardless of the infection rate,
the situation in the actual schools.


Actually I named Trump and DeVos specifically in this thread but your
knee can't stop jerking.
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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:48:05 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 7:50:08 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/20/2020 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 05:46:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 4:19:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:44:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:35:22 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM,
wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.* No, No, No.* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

And states like FL let Covid get so out of control that tracing is
impossible now. Who's going to track down all the contacts for 10,000
cases a day? Also tests are taking a week to process. By the time
you get the results, it's too late. Welcome to Trump's America.
We've fallen badly and can't get up. Besides the sickness and death
our enemies have taken note too. Trump can't beat Covid, why should
anyone think he's any better at beating them?



The spike in Florida was when we opened the "meet market" bars and the
people most affected were those customers. No shock there.

Yes it is shocking that you have a governor that stupid.




Tracing is
pretty silly when these people don't even know the real name of the
ones they are dancing with, passing joints to, making out with and
****ing.

Yet South Korea successfully handled exactly that. My how the US, the
country that put man on the moon, has fallen. We can't get up. That
problem will start to be fixed Jan 2021.

This ain't Korea.


We have proven that. Too bad.


+1


Flights to Korea leave JFK every day. Don't let the door hit you in
the ass.



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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 20:59:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/20/2020 8:27 PM, Roger Oveur wrote:
On 7/20/2020 10:00 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/20/2020 9:32 AM, Grumpy Old White Guy wrote:
On 7/20/2020 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
And yet NY, NJ, CT etc successfully put Covid down.* Imagine that.
If we had a uniform plan like those states implemented for the
whole country, had adequate testing, we would have it down.
Instead we wasted the four months that shutting down bought us.
Why can't you look and learn?* Why do you just give up, accept
defeat?* The country that put man on the moon has fallen so badly
it can't get up.* So much for "make America great again".

Why not just buy all the pussified snowflakes some full hazmat suits
and let the rest of us real Americans live our lives?

With 10,000 new cases a day do you think that is enjoying life?



All that means is that we tested = 10,000 people,* MSM has a fresh
fearmongering statistic and that some medical supply company is laughing
all the way to the bank.


Explain why the hospitals have been filling up in some states. Many
have controlled it but some are losing the battle. Florida was not too
bad in April but 52 hospitals now have no ICU beds. Surely you can see
that is not good.


It simply points out what I have been saying all along. That virus is
still out there, just waiting until we open up. The states you like to
tout, are still locked down. I bet after watching Florida, New York
bars will be closed for a while.
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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 09:32:01 -0400, Grumpy Old White Guy
wrote:

On 7/20/2020 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
And yet NY, NJ, CT etc successfully put Covid down. Imagine that.
If we had a uniform plan like those states implemented for the
whole country, had adequate testing, we would have it down.
Instead we wasted the four months that shutting down bought us.
Why can't you look and learn? Why do you just give up, accept
defeat? The country that put man on the moon has fallen so badly
it can't get up. So much for "make America great again".


Why not just buy all the pussified snowflakes some full hazmat suits and let the rest of us real Americans live our lives?

I can hardly believe you are really quite as stupid as you try to
come across - but it is getting harder to give you any credit with
every post.
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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On 7/20/2020 7:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 20:59:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/20/2020 8:27 PM, Roger Oveur wrote:
On 7/20/2020 10:00 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/20/2020 9:32 AM, Grumpy Old White Guy wrote:
On 7/20/2020 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
And yet NY, NJ, CT etc successfully put Covid down.* Imagine that.
If we had a uniform plan like those states implemented for the
whole country, had adequate testing, we would have it down.
Instead we wasted the four months that shutting down bought us.
Why can't you look and learn?* Why do you just give up, accept
defeat?* The country that put man on the moon has fallen so badly
it can't get up.* So much for "make America great again".

Why not just buy all the pussified snowflakes some full hazmat suits
and let the rest of us real Americans live our lives?

With 10,000 new cases a day do you think that is enjoying life?


All that means is that we tested = 10,000 people,* MSM has a fresh
fearmongering statistic and that some medical supply company is laughing
all the way to the bank.


Explain why the hospitals have been filling up in some states. Many
have controlled it but some are losing the battle. Florida was not too
bad in April but 52 hospitals now have no ICU beds. Surely you can see
that is not good.


It simply points out what I have been saying all along. That virus is
still out there, just waiting until we open up. The states you like to
tout, are still locked down. I bet after watching Florida, New York
bars will be closed for a while.


Let's see. Do I want bars open or a healthy population?

Good. It actually makes sense.


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Default School Opening -- The King has spoken

On 7/20/2020 8:02 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 09:32:01 -0400, Grumpy Old White Guy
wrote:

On 7/20/2020 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
And yet NY, NJ, CT etc successfully put Covid down. Imagine that.
If we had a uniform plan like those states implemented for the
whole country, had adequate testing, we would have it down.
Instead we wasted the four months that shutting down bought us.
Why can't you look and learn? Why do you just give up, accept
defeat? The country that put man on the moon has fallen so badly
it can't get up. So much for "make America great again".


Why not just buy all the pussified snowflakes some full hazmat suits and let the rest of us real Americans live our lives?

I can hardly believe you are really quite as stupid as you try to
come across - but it is getting harder to give you any credit with
every post.


Why on earth would anyone want to give this moron any credit. Every word
he writes is pure political nonsense.
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