Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.

lbecker wrote:
Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.



$750.00 Flat rate

PS- Blow me

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:45:35 -0400, "
wrote:

lbecker wrote:
Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.



$750.00 Flat rate

PS- Blow me

Thanks for the $750 part.. that was helpful. Trying to double check
my quote. My estimate was actually $750, but the company I use was
very cool in knocking of the $100 fee to diagnose the problem.

Not sure what caused the PS part? Care to elaborate? Was this not a
cool question to ask on alt.hvac ?

"lbecker" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:45:35 -0400, "
wrote:

lbecker wrote:
Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.



$750.00 Flat rate

PS- Blow me

Thanks for the $750 part.. that was helpful. Trying to double check
my quote. My estimate was actually $750, but the company I use was
very cool in knocking of the $100 fee to diagnose the problem.

Not sure what caused the PS part? Care to elaborate? Was this not a
cool question to ask on alt.hvac ?

The question would be better answered in alt.home.repair.

My flat rate for that job is $780 unless it's a severe burnout which adds
$500.

- Robert

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:06:01 GMT, "American Mechanical"
wrote:


"lbecker" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:45:35 -0400, "
wrote:

lbecker wrote:
Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.



$750.00 Flat rate

PS- Blow me

Thanks for the $750 part.. that was helpful. Trying to double check
my quote. My estimate was actually $750, but the company I use was
very cool in knocking of the $100 fee to diagnose the problem.

Not sure what caused the PS part? Care to elaborate? Was this not a
cool question to ask on alt.hvac ?

The question would be better answered in alt.home.repair.

My flat rate for that job is $780 unless it's a severe burnout which adds
$500.

- Robert

Ahh.. my bad. Thanks for taking the time! I cross-posted over there
(alt.home.repair) because I was not sure.

Sorry... thanks again for the helpful information.

lbecker wrote:

$750.00 Flat rate

PS- Blow me


Thanks for the $750 part.. that was helpful. Trying to double check
my quote. My estimate was actually $750, but the company I use was
very cool in knocking of the $100 fee to diagnose the problem.

Not sure what caused the PS part? Care to elaborate? Was this not a
cool question to ask on alt.hvac ?

Naaa....I was just lookin for a blowjob.

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:41:10 -0400, lbecker
wrote:


Do not cross-post to alt.hvac !!!!


Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

lbecker writes:

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high.

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Replacing under warranty means you gotta go thru the factory's dealer
network, which literally goes to school to learn how to manipulate and
gouge you on price.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
lbecker writes:

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high.

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Replacing under warranty means you gotta go thru the factory's dealer
network, which literally goes to school to learn how to manipulate and
gouge you on price.

Nope. I can get the warranty part simply by walking in to the wholesaler
and giving them the MN and SN even if I'm not one of their dealers.

The compressors I've replaced have been on smaller units. Typically takes me
about three hours. Can't comment on heat pumps, we don't have many of them
in my part of the world.

I'd guess between 3 and 5 hours of work. Plus the trip out to your house,
and maybe a trip to the wrecking yard to dispose the old compressor.

HVAC guys, well, the labor rates vary around the country.

--
Christopher A. Young

Do good work.
It's longer in the short run,
But shorter in the long run.


"lbecker" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
lbecker writes:

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high.

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Not really. Richard..you really dont know a damn thing about running a
business do you?


Replacing under warranty means you gotta go thru the factory's dealer
network, which literally goes to school to learn how to manipulate and
gouge you on price.

LOL!

Nope. He does not. Any licenced legitimate HVAC company can replace that
compressor, however, it helps to know
1-IS it really the compressor?
2-If it is, what is involved in the units replacement?

The reason I bring this up, is that I just came back from a call, on,
ironically, a 10 year old Lennox unit. It was not due to the fact that 3
other companies had been out and deemed the compressor dead, (2 of the
estimates stated on the invoice, shorted to ground) but due to the fact that
no one would come out and repair it.
I was refered to this guy by another old York customer that was friends of
his, and when I got there, I didnt know about the other 3 estimates, nor,
that it had been looked at previous.
When I got there, sure enough, the compressor was dead, and the customer
told me that somethings TRYING to run, it makes a noise and the lights
dim...
Ok...fair enough, it SURE sounds like....umm...could be...might be...the
CAPACITOR! After checking the Copeland scroll, (looked really good for a 10
year old unit) and finding none of the windings shorted, I took the cap out
of its holder and sure enough...it was swollen. Snap, crack, BOOM. Replaced
it with a new cap, and the unit ran like a champ. After another 20 minutes
of checking, the unit was deemed fit enough to continue out the summer.
Total bill?
$300?
$250?

Nah...a grand total of $65 on a Sunday, and hes back in biz...

Now..had it been, lets say...a new unit, still under warranty, and the
compressor really WAS bad.

I would not have touched a job like that that will kill a good 5 hours of
time or more for under $500..

I also have to state that over 90% of the time that a field tech condems a
compressor..warranty or otherwise in MOST areas, its a capacitor, or other
problem.

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:11:25 -0400, "Steve@carolinabreezehvac"
wrote:


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
...
lbecker writes:

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high.

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Not really. Richard..you really dont know a damn thing about running a
business do you?


Replacing under warranty means you gotta go thru the factory's dealer
network, which literally goes to school to learn how to manipulate and
gouge you on price.

LOL!

Nope. He does not. Any licenced legitimate HVAC company can replace that
compressor, however, it helps to know
1-IS it really the compressor?
2-If it is, what is involved in the units replacement?

The reason I bring this up, is that I just came back from a call, on,
ironically, a 10 year old Lennox unit. It was not due to the fact that 3
other companies had been out and deemed the compressor dead, (2 of the
estimates stated on the invoice, shorted to ground) but due to the fact that
no one would come out and repair it.
I was refered to this guy by another old York customer that was friends of
his, and when I got there, I didnt know about the other 3 estimates, nor,
that it had been looked at previous.
When I got there, sure enough, the compressor was dead, and the customer
told me that somethings TRYING to run, it makes a noise and the lights
dim...
Ok...fair enough, it SURE sounds like....umm...could be...might be...the
CAPACITOR! After checking the Copeland scroll, (looked really good for a 10
year old unit) and finding none of the windings shorted, I took the cap out
of its holder and sure enough...it was swollen. Snap, crack, BOOM. Replaced
it with a new cap, and the unit ran like a champ. After another 20 minutes
of checking, the unit was deemed fit enough to continue out the summer.
Total bill?
$300?
$250?

Nah...a grand total of $65 on a Sunday, and hes back in biz...

Now..had it been, lets say...a new unit, still under warranty, and the
compressor really WAS bad.

I would not have touched a job like that that will kill a good 5 hours of
time or more for under $500..

I also have to state that over 90% of the time that a field tech condems a
compressor..warranty or otherwise in MOST areas, its a capacitor, or other
problem.

thanks for the additional info. Yeah, the big old capacitor in mine
was gone and leaking... and replacing it did not solve the problem...

hard to say what the cause and effect was (the cap went bad and then
the compressor went bad, or vice versa).

The wires feeding in around the compressor had melted a bit (the
insulation)

I am comfortable with the technician's opinion on this one being the
compressor...

By way.. it is HOT here in VA without A/C... yikes.

"lbecker" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:11:25 -0400, "Steve@carolinabreezehvac"
wrote:


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
...
lbecker writes:

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high.

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts
not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Not really. Richard..you really dont know a damn thing about running a
business do you?


Replacing under warranty means you gotta go thru the factory's dealer
network, which literally goes to school to learn how to manipulate and
gouge you on price.

LOL!

Nope. He does not. Any licenced legitimate HVAC company can replace that
compressor, however, it helps to know
1-IS it really the compressor?
2-If it is, what is involved in the units replacement?

The reason I bring this up, is that I just came back from a call, on,
ironically, a 10 year old Lennox unit. It was not due to the fact that 3
other companies had been out and deemed the compressor dead, (2 of the
estimates stated on the invoice, shorted to ground) but due to the fact
that
no one would come out and repair it.
I was refered to this guy by another old York customer that was friends
of
his, and when I got there, I didnt know about the other 3 estimates, nor,
that it had been looked at previous.
When I got there, sure enough, the compressor was dead, and the customer
told me that somethings TRYING to run, it makes a noise and the lights
dim...
Ok...fair enough, it SURE sounds like....umm...could be...might be...the
CAPACITOR! After checking the Copeland scroll, (looked really good for a
10
year old unit) and finding none of the windings shorted, I took the cap
out
of its holder and sure enough...it was swollen. Snap, crack, BOOM.
Replaced
it with a new cap, and the unit ran like a champ. After another 20
minutes
of checking, the unit was deemed fit enough to continue out the summer.
Total bill?
$300?
$250?

Nah...a grand total of $65 on a Sunday, and hes back in biz...

Now..had it been, lets say...a new unit, still under warranty, and the
compressor really WAS bad.

I would not have touched a job like that that will kill a good 5 hours of
time or more for under $500..

I also have to state that over 90% of the time that a field tech condems
a
compressor..warranty or otherwise in MOST areas, its a capacitor, or
other
problem.

thanks for the additional info. Yeah, the big old capacitor in mine
was gone and leaking... and replacing it did not solve the problem...

hard to say what the cause and effect was (the cap went bad and then
the compressor went bad, or vice versa).

The wires feeding in around the compressor had melted a bit (the
insulation)

I am comfortable with the technician's opinion on this one being the
compressor...

By way.. it is HOT here in VA without A/C... yikes.


It was pretty rough down here below ya today too...that tropical storm
really laid the humidity and heat our way..
Hope you get it all worked out.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
lbecker writes:

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high.

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

When you get that foil hat off your head and wind up here in the real world,
let us know.... On second thought - don't.


Replacing under warranty means you gotta go thru the factory's dealer
network, which literally goes to school to learn how to manipulate and
gouge you on price.

See above.

- Robert

HeatMan writes:

Nope. I can get the warranty part simply by walking in to the wholesaler
and giving them the MN and SN even if I'm not one of their dealers.

They'll hand you an expensive part for nothing more than two numbers.
Right. And Chrysler will give my local teenage grease monkey a new engine
for my car.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
HeatMan writes:

Nope. I can get the warranty part simply by walking in to the
wholesaler
and giving them the MN and SN even if I'm not one of their dealers.

They'll hand you an expensive part for nothing more than two numbers.
Right. And Chrysler will give my local teenage grease monkey a new engine
for my car.

No, dumbass. They put the part on my open account and credit me back when
the old part is returned and warranty paperwork turned in. You better stick
to screwing the grease monkeys.

- Robert

Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Not really. Richard..you really dont know a d*** thing about running a
business do you?

I suppose you want to whine about how much it costs to put a truck and tech
on the road.

While I have some business experience, I admit it is limited to competing
fairly and without artificial barriers to entry. You may be right: I don't
know much about the inside of your collusive, anti-competitive, and
protected trade. I do know that the alt.hvac cronies are the meanest bunch
of roustabouts in the NNTP universe, and don't fairly represent the HVAC
biz.

I dunno what it is about fixing stuff for a living, but whether it is AC
units, or garage doors, or brain surgery, you all seem to think your labor
is worth many times what mere mortals can do, but you need all kinds of
barriers and licenses to force people into paying it.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Not really. Richard..you really dont know a d*** thing about running a
business do you?

I suppose you want to whine about how much it costs to put a truck and tech
on the road.

While I have some business experience, I admit it is limited to competing
fairly and without artificial barriers to entry. You may be right: I don't
know much about the inside of your collusive, anti-competitive, and
protected trade. I do know that the alt.hvac cronies are the meanest bunch
of roustabouts in the NNTP universe, and don't fairly represent the HVAC
biz.

I dunno what it is about fixing stuff for a living, but whether it is AC
units, or garage doors, or brain surgery, you all seem to think your labor
is worth many times what mere mortals can do, but you need all kinds of
barriers and licenses to force people into paying it.

This is Turtle.

Richard , Your a Hack Maginet if i ever saw one or heard one reply on the
newsgroup. All the Hacks out there listening to what is said and they are
smilling like a mule eating briars. I'm not joking at all here.

TURTLE

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Not really. Richard..you really dont know a d*** thing about running a
business do you?

I suppose you want to whine about how much it costs to put a truck and
tech
on the road.

While I have some business experience, I admit it is limited to competing
fairly and without artificial barriers to entry. You may be right: I
don't
know much about the inside of your collusive, anti-competitive, and
protected trade. I do know that the alt.hvac cronies are the meanest
bunch
of roustabouts in the NNTP universe, and don't fairly represent the HVAC
biz.

I dunno what it is about fixing stuff for a living, but whether it is AC
units, or garage doors, or brain surgery, you all seem to think your labor
is worth many times what mere mortals can do, but you need all kinds of
barriers and licenses to force people into paying it.

Well sport, just how much do you *think* we should charge???
Just how much am I supposed to charge to keep from going bankrupt so I can
be there down the road when your heating and cooling system dies because it
was never properly maintained, or you tried to have it repaired by the
lowest bidder, or worse yet you tried to do it your self.
With my *basic* company and personal expenses exceding $4,000 per month,
figure $1,000/week *NET* so that means gross reciepts of over $2,500/week.
Ok....now lets figure a 40 hour week with 4 calls per day (no you can't
charge for travel time inbetween calls) with an average of 1 1/2 hours on
each call.... that means an average of $125 per call..... this is a minimum
bare bones just to be able to stay in business, keep a roof over my head,
and food on my table. Now thanx to the greed of the oil companies, I have a
$350/mo fuel bill for an S-10 truck, and in another couple of months I will
have a heating bill that will go up 10 fold.
Licenses, laws and code is there only because somebody did it wrong at the
cost of loss of life, limb, and/or property.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote

I suppose you want to whine about how much it costs to put a truck and
tech
on the road.

While I have some business experience, I admit it is limited

Right you are.

Now shut the f*ck up and go away before I come over there and sh*t down your
neck.

If I do, I'll give half off on the labor charge.......

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
HeatMan writes:

Nope. I can get the warranty part simply by walking in to the
wholesaler
and giving them the MN and SN even if I'm not one of their dealers.

They'll hand you an expensive part for nothing more than two numbers.
Right. And Chrysler will give my local teenage grease monkey a new engine
for my car.

Actually, you as a homeowner can do it too...
It works like this..

You go to the Lennox supplier
You show them your EPA card that shows that you have half a clue about what
you are about to embark on..
You give them the model and serial number of the unit
You give them the old compressor that you claim is bad
You give them a check for the cost of the compressor in CASE its NOT bad,
and check out time from factory..normally another $150 or so..plus a new
cap, not covered under warranty in this case..oh...and a jug of 22, since
you cant buy it in little cans any more...
They give you the paperwork back, a cap, a compressor, and a jug of 22...
You wait 5 months for your refund, IF and only if the compressor was really
bad.


And as a son of a Chrysler dealer, and ex-service manager for Chrysler,
actually they can do that as well, but the difference is, the dealership
wont charge you a dime in labor for a warranty engine swap out..altho, the
dealership is charged for it.
And yes...they will hand over an engine to your local grease monkey...but
the question is, why in hell would you want ANOTHER hack working on your
stuff???

In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Not really. Richard..you really dont know a d*** thing about running a
business do you?

I suppose you want to whine about how much it costs to put a truck and tech
on the road.

While I have some business experience, I admit it is limited to competing
fairly and without artificial barriers to entry. You may be right: I don't
know much about the inside of your collusive, anti-competitive, and
protected trade. I do know that the alt.hvac cronies are the meanest bunch
of roustabouts in the NNTP universe, and don't fairly represent the HVAC
biz.

I dunno what it is about fixing stuff for a living, but whether it is AC
units, or garage doors, or brain surgery, you all seem to think your labor
is worth many times what mere mortals can do, but you need all kinds of
barriers and licenses to force people into paying it.

Kinch you ****wit. Take your socialist homemoaning ass elsewhere.

Hacking up your moms **** and ****ing with equipment you don't know
about is going to get someone hurt some day.
Your EPA "license" isn't going to help you in court.

You are just a cheap prick. Your diatribe on making your own pop shows
that and other things. Loose association being one.
If you spent time working maybe your kids wouldn't have to drink pop
from a third world apparatus.

Since you are supposed to be "educated". Why don't you go to school for
HVAC so you could buy pop for your kids or at least afford rubbers so we
don't have to subsidize your "lifestyle".

I know you hate the "system" but those rules, regulations and
RESTRICTIONS are there to keep "id-jits" such as yourself from harming
others.
Get some training or get out.

Richard,
You are a dumb-****. I'm not a manufacture's dealer (none of them will pay
me to endorse them) however, I do warranty work all the time. The warranty
work isn't really worth the time I spend on the warranty repair but the
additional work that is created by the "new-customer" relationship pays
off well.

Jabs


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
lbecker writes:

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high.

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Replacing under warranty means you gotta go thru the factory's dealer
network, which literally goes to school to learn how to manipulate and
gouge you on price.

Hey Dumb-****,
**** a license and EPA Certification! Either you go get your
recovery-machine, your welding outfit, your vacuum pump and your
micron-gauge along with a just couple of years of HVAC training & experience
and do it yourself for less....... or STFU.....dumb-ass!

Jabs


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Not really. Richard..you really dont know a d*** thing about running a
business do you?

I suppose you want to whine about how much it costs to put a truck and
tech
on the road.

While I have some business experience, I admit it is limited to competing
fairly and without artificial barriers to entry. You may be right: I
don't
know much about the inside of your collusive, anti-competitive, and
protected trade. I do know that the alt.hvac cronies are the meanest
bunch
of roustabouts in the NNTP universe, and don't fairly represent the HVAC
biz.

I dunno what it is about fixing stuff for a living, but whether it is AC
units, or garage doors, or brain surgery, you all seem to think your labor
is worth many times what mere mortals can do, but you need all kinds of
barriers and licenses to force people into paying it.

Steve,
Did you forget to calculate the monthly cost (173.8 hrs) of employing a HVAC
journeyman too.

Jabs


"Noon-Air" wrote in message
...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

That is not a fair price, but you are being victimized by the "parts
not
labor" warranty scam, and the trade protection racket.

Not really. Richard..you really dont know a d*** thing about running a
business do you?

I suppose you want to whine about how much it costs to put a truck and
tech
on the road.

While I have some business experience, I admit it is limited to competing
fairly and without artificial barriers to entry. You may be right: I
don't
know much about the inside of your collusive, anti-competitive, and
protected trade. I do know that the alt.hvac cronies are the meanest
bunch
of roustabouts in the NNTP universe, and don't fairly represent the HVAC
biz.

I dunno what it is about fixing stuff for a living, but whether it is AC
units, or garage doors, or brain surgery, you all seem to think your
labor
is worth many times what mere mortals can do, but you need all kinds of
barriers and licenses to force people into paying it.

Well sport, just how much do you *think* we should charge???
Just how much am I supposed to charge to keep from going bankrupt so I can
be there down the road when your heating and cooling system dies because
it was never properly maintained, or you tried to have it repaired by the
lowest bidder, or worse yet you tried to do it your self.
With my *basic* company and personal expenses exceding $4,000 per month,
figure $1,000/week *NET* so that means gross reciepts of over $2,500/week.
Ok....now lets figure a 40 hour week with 4 calls per day (no you can't
charge for travel time inbetween calls) with an average of 1 1/2 hours on
each call.... that means an average of $125 per call..... this is a
minimum bare bones just to be able to stay in business, keep a roof over
my head, and food on my table. Now thanx to the greed of the oil
companies, I have a $350/mo fuel bill for an S-10 truck, and in another
couple of months I will have a heating bill that will go up 10 fold.
Licenses, laws and code is there only because somebody did it wrong at the
cost of loss of life, limb, and/or property.

Stormin Moron,
Only three hours? You must do **** work!

Jabs,


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
The compressors I've replaced have been on smaller units. Typically takes
me
about three hours. Can't comment on heat pumps, we don't have many of them
in my part of the world.

I'd guess between 3 and 5 hours of work. Plus the trip out to your house,
and maybe a trip to the wrecking yard to dispose the old compressor.

HVAC guys, well, the labor rates vary around the country.

--
Christopher A. Young

Do good work.
It's longer in the short run,
But shorter in the long run.


"lbecker" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.

"Jabs" wrote in message
...
Stormin Moron,
Only three hours? You must do **** work!

Jabs,


This is Turtle.

He cuts down on vaccum time by using one of the Vaccum port on his Pinto one
barrel carberator.

Don't discount this and laugh for i knew a turkey years ago who would do it. The
engine would run ruff till it got to about 10 inches and leveled off. He had a
hose come out by one of the head lights and tied off on a 62 Ford F-100 . High
Tech in Action.

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Jabs" wrote in message
...
Stormin Moron,
Only three hours? You must do **** work!

Jabs,


This is Turtle.

He cuts down on vaccum time by using one of the Vaccum port on his Pinto
one
barrel carberator.

Don't discount this and laugh for i knew a turkey years ago who would do
it. The
engine would run ruff till it got to about 10 inches and leveled off. He
had a
hose come out by one of the head lights and tied off on a 62 Ford F-100 .
High
Tech in Action.

TURTLE

Stormy's older brother!! LOL

~kjpro~

Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

Actually, you as a homeowner can do it too...

That much I can believe.

Noon-Air writes:

Well sport, just how much do you *think* we should charge?

Whatever the [free] market will bear. Cost-plus is socialism.

bill writes:

Take your socialist homemoaning a** elsewhere.

You've got your economics terms upside down.

Jabs writes:

Either you go get your
recovery-machine, your welding outfit, your vacuum pump and your
micron-gauge along with a just couple of years of HVAC training &
experience and do it yourself for less...

Precisely my approach.

TURTLE writes:

Richard , Your a Hack Maginet if i ever saw one or heard one reply on the
newsgroup. All the Hacks out there listening to what is said and they are
smilling like a mule eating briars.

Spoken by a rare gentlemen among scoundrels.

It appears by "hack" you mean "do-it-yourselfer who knows what he's doing".
And I do like to make them smile, mules as we may be.

Richard J Kinch wrote:

Noon-Air writes:


Well sport, just how much do you *think* we should charge?


Whatever the [free] market will bear. Cost-plus is socialism.

Ummm? Can we use the oil companies as a guideline? I always wanted
to own the Queen Mary as a fishing boat. ;-p

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
TURTLE writes:

Richard , Your a Hack Maginet if i ever saw one or heard one reply on
the
newsgroup. All the Hacks out there listening to what is said and they
are
smilling like a mule eating briars.

Spoken by a rare gentlemen among scoundrels.

It appears by "hack" you mean "do-it-yourselfer who knows what he's
doing".
And I do like to make them smile, mules as we may be.


Now youre being silly....and stupid...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Noon-Air writes:

Well sport, just how much do you *think* we should charge?

Whatever the [free] market will bear. Cost-plus is socialism.

So...out in CA where guys get over $1500 to change out a compressor....its
OK, since thats what the market will bear?
How about the larger commercial stuff, where its close to $5000 to change
out one?

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
TURTLE writes:

Richard , Your a Hack Maginet if i ever saw one or heard one reply on the
newsgroup. All the Hacks out there listening to what is said and they are
smilling like a mule eating briars.

Spoken by a rare gentlemen among scoundrels.

It appears by "hack" you mean "do-it-yourselfer who knows what he's doing".
And I do like to make them smile, mules as we may be.

This is Turtle.

No I'm not referring to you as doing any of the work but if you think that you
can do everything that a real profession hvac tech will do in all repair. well
your kedding yourself. Your ganging up all hvac people as hacks when only about
1/3 are hacks, 1/3 are uneducated enough in the business to do it right, and 1/3
is real hvac service professionals. Now if you gang them all and call them all
the same. When you do need some help professionally, you will probley call the
hack for he will be the cheapest priced and agree with you on any decission made
about the system. The Hack knows that if he let's you decide how it will be
done. You will screw it up enough to get to sell you a new system when it comes
apart later.

TURTLE

TURTLE writes:

Your ganging up all hvac people as hacks when only about
1/3 are hacks, 1/3 are uneducated enough in the business to do it
right, and 1/3 is real hvac service professionals.

I don't mean to lump the whole lot together. In any service business,
you have some that are technically competent, some that aren't, some who
are competent but with no head for business, and those who are crooks
with excuses why they're not. On top of that natural order, you have
the government contractor licensing, the EPA licensing, in some
situations the unionization, in collusion to bar entry to the trade and
to maintain prices. And on top of that, you have the manufacturer's
restraint-of-trade practices for price maintenance, which happens in
every industry that sells costly equipment (white goods, farm equipment,
cars, used to be personal computers before they got cheap), with
manufacturer's constantly influencing dealers to stop discounting and
competition.

Every bunch that wants government to enforce licensing talks about
"protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism",
but in reality it is all bout restricting the market, raising prices,
and picking who gets to practice the trade. Doctors, lawyers, barbers,
manicurists, morticians, tile-setters, etc. The chief determinant of
which enterprises are free of this and which are lousy with it is the
simple aspect of how easy it is to lean on people trying to do it. You
can police the drywall trade, you can't software over the Internet.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
TURTLE writes:

Your ganging up all hvac people as hacks when only about
1/3 are hacks, 1/3 are uneducated enough in the business to do it
right, and 1/3 is real hvac service professionals.

I don't mean to lump the whole lot together. In any service business,
you have some that are technically competent, some that aren't, some who
are competent but with no head for business, and those who are crooks
with excuses why they're not. On top of that natural order, you have
the government contractor licensing, the EPA licensing, in some
situations the unionization, in collusion to bar entry to the trade and
to maintain prices. And on top of that, you have the manufacturer's
restraint-of-trade practices for price maintenance, which happens in
every industry that sells costly equipment (white goods, farm equipment,
cars, used to be personal computers before they got cheap), with
manufacturer's constantly influencing dealers to stop discounting and
competition.


I have to disagree with you on this.
You are making is sound like you CANT get into the trade. You can. While
there is a set order, FOR A REASON, that you have to be properly trained,
its not impossible.
The EPA licence is not difficult. Not at all. I dont support union..you want
it...you can have it.
State licence shows competence in paperwork, basically. In order to get to
that level, you have to show time working in the trade, so that they can
feel confident when you get your gas fitters ticket, you wont do something
stupid like use garden hose for a gas line.
As far as pricing...no one tells me what I can or cant sell my equipment
for. I had one company that sent me a C+D letter one time, and I replied
back with an up yours....and never heard back from them again.
What I find amazing, is when I price out a system, as I just did, and will
go deliver the estimate package to the builder as soon as I send this reply
an check a couple of others, is that I normally get questioned about "Why
are you so much lower than XYZ?"
LOL...an the truth is, I am not lower, he is HIGHER.


Every bunch that wants government to enforce licensing talks about
"protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism",
but in reality it is all bout restricting the market, raising prices,
and picking who gets to practice the trade.

I dont agree, and all it would take would be one week with a tech in a van
to see what we see out there to prove otherwise...
What we are for, is taking what we have now, and enforce the laws on the
books, not so much to the homeowner, but to the so called pros out there
that represent the licenced bunch we have now.

I do agree that as time goes on, the few that are entering the skilled
trades are NOT so skilled, and therefore, in order to present yourself as a
professional they need to show more experence, and the ability to do the
work.
You claim our trade isnt rocket science, and you are right, altho its used
on the space shuttle and ISS.
Its more a matter of thermal and fluid dynamics, basic math, and physics,
and a good dose of common sense thrown in.

What I sell my units for, only the customer cares, and if the customer wants
to spend more on a Goodman..so be it. If they are that weak minded to
believe that a Goodman compares to a York, or a Trane...I dont want them on
my customer list anyway.


Doctors, lawyers, barbers,
manicurists, morticians, tile-setters, etc. The chief determinant of
which enterprises are free of this and which are lousy with it is the
simple aspect of how easy it is to lean on people trying to do it. You
can police the drywall trade, you can't software over the Internet.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Jabs writes:

Either you go get your
recovery-machine, your welding outfit, your vacuum pump and your
micron-gauge along with a just couple of years of HVAC training &
experience and do it yourself for less...

Precisely my approach.


And in Florida, you can pull your own Mechanical permits too...right?
Wrong.

This is where Richard loses all understanding of things.