"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
TURTLE writes:

Your ganging up all hvac people as hacks when only about
1/3 are hacks, 1/3 are uneducated enough in the business to do it
right, and 1/3 is real hvac service professionals.

I don't mean to lump the whole lot together. In any service business,
you have some that are technically competent, some that aren't, some who
are competent but with no head for business, and those who are crooks
with excuses why they're not. On top of that natural order, you have
the government contractor licensing, the EPA licensing, in some
situations the unionization, in collusion to bar entry to the trade and
to maintain prices. And on top of that, you have the manufacturer's
restraint-of-trade practices for price maintenance, which happens in
every industry that sells costly equipment (white goods, farm equipment,
cars, used to be personal computers before they got cheap), with
manufacturer's constantly influencing dealers to stop discounting and
competition.

Every bunch that wants government to enforce licensing talks about
"protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism",
but in reality it is all bout restricting the market, raising prices,
and picking who gets to practice the trade. Doctors, lawyers, barbers,
manicurists, morticians, tile-setters, etc. The chief determinant of
which enterprises are free of this and which are lousy with it is the
simple aspect of how easy it is to lean on people trying to do it. You
can police the drywall trade, you can't software over the Internet.

This is Turtle.

2 things here.

first it is not possible to correctly trouble shoot a system over the internet.

Second I live in a State Louisiana who has the right to work laws and all you
need is a epa card and a 1962 pinto station wagon and your a HVAC/R professional
which can bid on $50,000.00 job right along side me. I've done this for 40
something years and been dealing with hacks all these years. Now these days they
have to put up a $300K Contractor liability insurance policy to cover if they
don't proform and that is about it. Contractor liability insurance compamys do a
little policing of their own by not selling a policy to any person that does not
have 5 years work experience in the field and atleast 2 years working on their
own as a business owner. Yes you have to get out of state insurance to start or
be let sub out under a regular hvac company like myself. Yes i have started a
bunch of companys and is starting another one right now.

So you are being restricted not only by government but industry does not want
the customer screwed and screwing up the jobs theirself. They know 90% of all
home owners don't have any skill in the hvac or refrigeration field and wants
them to call someone that will not screw it up for the next home owner to buy
his screw up's. About 20% of my business comes from home owners fixing what
should have been done differently years ago. Also another 30% of my business
comes from hacks screwing up jobs and I come finish them. Most home owners will
not sue the hack for a small $200.00 screw up and call me and say " Hey Turtle
come fix this damn thing " .

Your story is not new and we hear it all the time when we are fixing screw up
mostly.

TURTLE

Homeowners please read the charter for alt.hvac and sci.engr.heat-vent-ac

at:

http://home.att.net/~alt.hvac/default.htm

http://home.att.net/~alt.hvac/netiquet.htm

http://home.att.net/~alt.hvac/charter.htm



It states: The HVAC groups are not intended to supplement the homeowner
groups such as

misc.consumer.house and alt.home.repair



So please go there and post your question or call your local heating/ air
conditioning contractor to service your equipment.

According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), a qualified
heating contractor should inspect the home heating system annually. Checks
should be made of the furnace or boiler, and its electrical and mechanical
components, thermostat controls and automatic safety switches.





MechAcc

"lbecker" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.

In article ,
Richard J Kinch the socialist ****wit wrote:
snipped rant

Every bunch that wants government to enforce licensing talks about
"protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism",
but in reality it is all bout restricting the market, raising prices,
and picking who gets to practice the trade. Doctors, lawyers, barbers,
manicurists, morticians, tile-setters, etc.

BULL****.
Allow you to hang a shingle and call yourself a Lawyer, Barber or a
Doctor because you watched and helped a few times?

"Protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism" is
precisely why we have licensing.


The chief determinant of
which enterprises are free of this and which are lousy with it is the
simple aspect of how easy it is to lean on people trying to do it. You
can police the drywall trade, you can't software over the Internet.

Make some software that harms someone.
You know full well the software license is one long weazel clause.
Stand behind your software like we do our trade Kinch.
LOL

bill writes:

"Protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism" is
precisely why we have licensing.

No, those things are perfectly well achieved with voluntary standards that
intelligent people can pay for if they choose.

When the government forbids, ultimately with threats of force, a willing
buyer and willing seller to exchange in an honest transaction, because of a
lack of a trade license, then that has nothing to do with consumer
protection or professionalism. It is motivated by greed, of the tradesman
who benefits from higher prices and less competition, and of the politician
who gains a moneyed special interest.

In the extreme, the government itself will decide who will do the work and
tax us to pay for it, like the public schools.

Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

As far as pricing...no one tells me what I can or cant sell my
equipment for. I had one company that sent me a C+D letter one time,
and I replied back with an up yours....and never heard back from them
again.

Well, good for you. I suppose you must have had alternative suppliers
available if they cut you off for discounting. But it illustrates my
point that the mfrs are
constantly pulling these price-maintenance stunts, mostly illegal
nowadays. Nothing remarkable that the HVAC biz does it.

Maybe you are old enough to remember the "fair trade" laws (which were
in truth the opposite of fair) up until the 1960s, made it *illegal* to
charge less than list price.

When I sold a very popular line of PCs in upstate New York in the early
1980s, they literally had an Italian mob guy (yes, named "Tony") that
came around and "leaned" on you if you were suspected of charging less
than list price. He wanted me to succeed and be wealthy selling these
high-tech products made in California, but not at a discount. These
kinds of "interpersonal skills" seem to be valuable in the "independent
manufacturer's representative" line of work. And you thought it was all
Dale Carnegie hail-fellow-well-met win-friends-and-influence-people
style.

People I know in kitchen appliance retailing, farm implements sales,
garage door repair, etc., have similar stories.

In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

bill writes:

"Protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism" is
precisely why we have licensing.

No, those things are perfectly well achieved with voluntary standards that
intelligent people can pay for if they choose.

Kinch, any ****wit with a pair of pump pliers can hang a shingle and
hold himself out to be a HVAC contractor in your idealistic world.
That's exactly why we have licensing. You want the rules changed so your
hack ass can do as you like. When you **** up and injure or kill someone
you can explain your theories to the judge.


When the government forbids, ultimately with threats of force, a willing
buyer and willing seller to exchange in an honest transaction, because of a
lack of a trade license, then that has nothing to do with consumer
protection or professionalism.

Selling something to someone and providing a professional service is two
different things. Don't try to blur the lines.



It is motivated by greed, of the tradesman
who benefits from higher prices and less competition, and of the politician
who gains a moneyed special interest.

You don't know **** about business. Get a education Kinch. Preferably
somewhere other than where you got your Ph.D.


In the extreme, the government itself will decide who will do the work and
tax us to pay for it, like the public schools.

Only if the Democrats win.

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

Bull **** Richard.

Here you go on your soap box again!

If I recall, you are a double E.

Are you actually trying to bull**** people into believing that as long as
both parties agree, anyone should be allowed to design electrical systems
for buildings? Yeah, take the "if they are qualified" response and shove it
in your butt! You KNOW the only way they are qualified, or more
specifically, how someone else knows they are qualified, is if they have
obtained some sort of certification. You do not even believe your own
bull**** so why don't you stop spewing it.

Yeah, you are down there in "permit hell" and the idea that someone can not
build their own deck by following simple instructions is a bit of a stretch,
however, you also know people who haven't a CLUE and might well construct a
deck on the second floor that will fall on someone other than them or the
others property. The government stepping in and offering some form of
certification that says "Mr. Kinch is qualified to design electrical systems
because he has proven he has the required education and has passed a test,
so in theory, Mr. Kinch should design things electrically safe for the
person and people affected by the work" is a GOOD thing, and you ****ing
agree with it.

You LOVE to bash HVAC contractors because they mark up parts, YOU think they
charge too much because YOU are willing to work unlicensed, uninsured
because you have the knowledge in a basic form, access and the wit to tap
resource information when you are out of your abilities, and you enjoy doing
it. You pay my insurance, you pay my taxes, you pay my employees health
insurance, you pay my employees for 40 hours when they only have 30 hours
work this week, you do all that, and ill lower my price per task, until
then, shut your freakin pie hole and quit saying things that you yourself do
not even believe.


the other rich
"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
bill writes:

"Protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism" is
precisely why we have licensing.

No, those things are perfectly well achieved with voluntary standards that
intelligent people can pay for if they choose.

When the government forbids, ultimately with threats of force, a willing
buyer and willing seller to exchange in an honest transaction, because of
a
lack of a trade license, then that has nothing to do with consumer
protection or professionalism. It is motivated by greed, of the tradesman
who benefits from higher prices and less competition, and of the
politician
who gains a moneyed special interest.

In the extreme, the government itself will decide who will do the work and
tax us to pay for it, like the public schools.



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
bill writes:

"Protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism" is
precisely why we have licensing.

No, those things are perfectly well achieved with voluntary standards that
intelligent people can pay for if they choose.

When the government forbids, ultimately with threats of force, a willing
buyer and willing seller to exchange in an honest transaction, because of
a
lack of a trade license, then that has nothing to do with consumer
protection or professionalism. It is motivated by greed, of the tradesman
who benefits from higher prices and less competition, and of the
politician
who gains a moneyed special interest.

In the extreme, the government itself will decide who will do the work and
tax us to pay for it, like the public schools.

So just exactly how do you propose that we should charge enough to be able
to stay in business, be able to pay our bills, feed our familys, pay our
taxes, pay for our medical and dental care, pay for our vehicles, pay for
our homes, etc and still work for free???
Just exactly what is it that you do??? how much are you overpaid?? what does
it cost you to pay for a roof over your head??? how much does it cost to
feed your family??? how much does it cost for your medical and dental
insurance?? how much do you pay in taxes?? how much does it cost to run and
maintain your vehicles??? how much less can you get paid and still survive??

inquiring minds want to know.

TURTLE wrote:

This is Turtle.

2 things here.

first it is not possible to correctly trouble shoot a system over the internet.

Second I live in a State Louisiana who has the right to work laws and all you
need is a epa card and a 1962 pinto station wagon and your a HVAC/R professional
which can bid on $50,000.00 job right along side me. I've done this for 40
something years and been dealing with hacks all these years. Now these days they
have to put up a $300K Contractor liability insurance policy to cover if they
don't proform and that is about it. Contractor liability insurance compamys do a
little policing of their own by not selling a policy to any person that does not
have 5 years work experience in the field and atleast 2 years working on their
own as a business owner. Yes you have to get out of state insurance to start or
be let sub out under a regular hvac company like myself. Yes i have started a
bunch of companys and is starting another one right now.

So you are being restricted not only by government but industry does not want
the customer screwed and screwing up the jobs theirself. They know 90% of all
home owners don't have any skill in the hvac or refrigeration field and wants
them to call someone that will not screw it up for the next home owner to buy
his screw up's. About 20% of my business comes from home owners fixing what
should have been done differently years ago. Also another 30% of my business
comes from hacks screwing up jobs and I come finish them. Most home owners will
not sue the hack for a small $200.00 screw up and call me and say " Hey Turtle
come fix this damn thing " .

Your story is not new and we hear it all the time when we are fixing screw up
mostly.

TURTLE

Wow, what a difference. I am in a right to work state, but we
have a Registrar of Contractors and there is a law against
non-contractors doing jobs in excess of $750. Under $750, you can do it
as a "handyman." Yes, I work with a number of folks who do side jobs
and installs that are way in excess of that.

Technically, and I know it has happened, if you are not a
contractor and the customer has you do a job that exceeds that total,
they can refuse to pay and file a complaint with the Registrar of
Contractors, and you are screwed. No, I have not felt compelled to drop
a dime on anyone yet, though I've been tempted.

Richard J Kinch wrote in message ...
bill writes:

"Protecting the consumer" and "raising standards of professionalism" is
precisely why we have licensing.

No, those things are perfectly well achieved with voluntary standards that
intelligent people can pay for if they choose.

Thanks, you just made me blow Coke out of my nose. You owe me a
nnnneeeewwww kkkkkkkkeeeeeyyyyybbbbbbooooaaarrrrddd.

Time and again it has been shown that even intelligent people can be
at a loss in an area outside their expertise. Without being an expert
in HVAC or some close-related engineering field, how is one qualified
to judge whether the unlicensed "contractor" standing before him is
competent to be entrusted with the potential bomb in the basement? As
intrusive as I find the government system of licensing, inspections
etc., it has its purpose. I'm not so much worried about blowing up my
own house or whatever, because I am qualifed to do the work myself or
to judge who can. However I'm damn glad that my clueless neighbor
can't buy his own HVAC system or hire some complete nincompoop to do
it for him. You see, I just don't want to come home and find the
remnants of his house all over my property. This isn't about
protecting the consumer, it's about protecting me from other
"consumers."

When the government forbids, ultimately with threats of force, a willing
buyer and willing seller to exchange in an honest transaction, because of a
lack of a trade license, then that has nothing to do with consumer
protection or professionalism. It is motivated by greed, of the tradesman
who benefits from higher prices and less competition, and of the politician
who gains a moneyed special interest.

Absolutely no benefit to society at large, nope, not a bit, no lives
have ever been spared by restricting certain kinds of work to those
qualified to do it, nuh uh, never, nada, nyet.

In the extreme, the government itself will decide who will do the work and
tax us to pay for it, like the public schools.

That has happened, or something like it as I understand, in the case
of septic systems in some locales. People got tired of swimming in the
neighbor's ****, complained to the lawmakers, and got the protection
from the neighbor's incompetence they asked for.

%mod%

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:25:53 -0500, "MechAcc"
wrote:

Homeowners please read the charter for alt.hvac and sci.engr.heat-vent-ac


I did and it also states

"Many of the `experts' are glad to help homeowners with their HVAC
problems, others would rather not.

"Vicki Szaszvari" wrote in message
...


TURTLE wrote:

This is Turtle.

2 things here.

first it is not possible to correctly trouble shoot a system over the
internet.

Second I live in a State Louisiana who has the right to work laws and all
you
need is a epa card and a 1962 pinto station wagon and your a HVAC/R
professional
which can bid on $50,000.00 job right along side me. I've done this for 40
something years and been dealing with hacks all these years. Now these days
they
have to put up a $300K Contractor liability insurance policy to cover if
they
don't proform and that is about it. Contractor liability insurance compamys
do a
little policing of their own by not selling a policy to any person that does
not
have 5 years work experience in the field and atleast 2 years working on
their
own as a business owner. Yes you have to get out of state insurance to start
or
be let sub out under a regular hvac company like myself. Yes i have started
a
bunch of companys and is starting another one right now.

So you are being restricted not only by government but industry does not
want
the customer screwed and screwing up the jobs theirself. They know 90% of
all
home owners don't have any skill in the hvac or refrigeration field and
wants
them to call someone that will not screw it up for the next home owner to
buy
his screw up's. About 20% of my business comes from home owners fixing what
should have been done differently years ago. Also another 30% of my business
comes from hacks screwing up jobs and I come finish them. Most home owners
will
not sue the hack for a small $200.00 screw up and call me and say " Hey
Turtle
come fix this damn thing " .

Your story is not new and we hear it all the time when we are fixing screw
up
mostly.

TURTLE

Wow, what a difference. I am in a right to work state, but we
have a Registrar of Contractors and there is a law against
non-contractors doing jobs in excess of $750. Under $750, you can do it
as a "handyman." Yes, I work with a number of folks who do side jobs
and installs that are way in excess of that.

Technically, and I know it has happened, if you are not a
contractor and the customer has you do a job that exceeds that total,
they can refuse to pay and file a complaint with the Registrar of
Contractors, and you are screwed. No, I have not felt compelled to drop
a dime on anyone yet, though I've been tempted.


This is Turtle.

Outside city limits all bets are off and only in citys will you see the rules
come into effect. Outside city limits you don't need licences, insurance, or
Permitts but you can't do any commercial work at all. Commercial means any open
to the public businesses or any public owned buildings. So Only residentiual
only. The Only thing you have to have outside the city limits is a E.P.A. card.
If you don't have a E.P.A. card --- they don't have to pay you when you go to
collect for a hvac job -- Big or little. A bunch of hands get a education
without a E.P.A. card. All the warehouses will not sell to nobody except the
ones with a E.P.A. card for they know they will get hit with a bunch of none
payments and go belly up on the warehouse. Even goodman will want to see a
E.P.A. card before they sell to them. Here a warehouse can go to school just
like the Rookies.

now if your in the city limits of any city the following applies ;

Small Contractors === Min- $300K Contractor Liability insurance.
Small Contractors === Min- Small job $60K or less Electric / HVAC Licences ,
HVAC Operator City permitt / licences, E.P.A. II Card in Pocket , Recovery
Machine on truck, and Have Workman's Comp if you employee more than 5 Employees.
This will get you to do a $60k jobs or less / nothing over $250K worth of
business a year , but nothing over that.

Large Contractor === Min. $2 Mil. Contractor Liability insurance, Have Louisiana
State Commercial Electric Licences [ Adult size Lesstricity Licences ] ,
Workman's Comp on all employees, Read to and apply to Equal opportunity State
Regulations, City of Doing business in City Operator permit, Pay city fee on
jobs over $1K of $3.00 on every $1K of a job and city inspector will inspect it,
E.P.A. Card with Universial on it, Recovery Machine on trucks, Any job over $60K
must have job plain submitted to State Fire Marshal's Office, Have and Submitt
sales tax payments every month not Quarterly, and last of all full fill all
signed contractor and if not you go on probation for one. Second one you get hit
with paying other contractor to finish the job. Third one you get all licences
and operator permitts pulled for one year and you pay other contractor to full
fill your contracts. that means you go belly up.

There is no Company that can do jobs of over $60K in Allen Parish / County
except myself. They do have bigger ones who come in but they are at a
disadvantage by not being located here. The Citys and Parish Offical have a
thing now about wanting to hire companys that Hire and employee Allen Parish
people and not out of Parish or out of state labor. I hire 100% all Allen Parish
employees. I got the Adult Electric licences by Grandfathering in back in 1975
when the state adopted Licenced companys in the different fields. I sub out
Electric work on the HVAC systems if big enough to the smaller electric service
companys and they work under my licences.

TURTLE

"lbecker" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:25:53 -0500, "MechAcc"
wrote:

Homeowners please read the charter for alt.hvac and sci.engr.heat-vent-ac


I did and it also states

"Many of the `experts' are glad to help homeowners with their HVAC
problems, others would rather not.



Quit crossposting to alt.hvac you ****ing idiot.

--

SVL

Noon-Air writes:

So just exactly how do you propose that we should charge enough to be
able to stay in business, be able to pay our bills, feed our familys,
pay our taxes, pay for our medical and dental care, pay for our
vehicles, pay for our homes, etc and still work for free???

No problem with you being in business or making a living. You sound like
someone who must do well at it.

The problem is the men with guns ... excuse me, the government, deciding
who gets to be in the biz and forbidding the public from dealing with
anyone else. The only situations where the gummint "cares" about
"protecting the consumer" is when there is money in it.

If the consumer needs government protection, then everything should be
licensed.

TURTLE writes:

Small Contractors === Min- $300K Contractor Liability insurance.
Small Contractors === Min- Small job $60K or less Electric / HVAC
Licences , HVAC Operator City permitt / licences, E.P.A. II Card in
Pocket , Recovery Machine on truck, and Have Workman's Comp if you
employee more than 5 Employees. This will get you to do a $60k jobs or
less / nothing over $250K worth of business a year , but nothing over
that.

Large Contractor === Min. $2 Mil. Contractor Liability insurance, Have
Louisiana State Commercial Electric Licences [ Adult size Lesstricity
Licences ] , Workman's Comp on all employees, Read to and apply to
Equal opportunity State Regulations, City of Doing business in City
Operator permit, Pay city fee on jobs over $1K of $3.00 on every $1K
of a job and city inspector will inspect it, E.P.A. Card with
Universial on it, Recovery Machine on trucks, Any job over $60K must
have job plain submitted to State Fire Marshal's Office, Have and
Submitt sales tax payments every month not Quarterly, and last of all
full fill all signed contractor and if not you go on probation for
one. Second one you get hit with paying other contractor to finish the
job. Third one you get all licences and operator permitts pulled for
one year and you pay other contractor to full fill your contracts.
that means you go belly up.

All that regulation and red tape.

The homeowners and commercial customers asked for this? "Please Mr
Politician, put all that in place because we want to be protected from
shoddy workmanship and unprofessional hacks."

These hideous systems came from pols and the trade, helping themselves
by making an industry into a gentlemen's invitation-only club.

In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

All that regulation and red tape.

The homeowners and commercial customers asked for this? "Please Mr
Politician, put all that in place because we want to be protected from
shoddy workmanship and unprofessional hacks."

These hideous systems came from pols and the trade, helping themselves
by making an industry into a gentlemen's invitation-only club.

Sorry Kinch but when you grow up maybe you'll understand why you
shouldn't let anyone do anything they want.

I wouldn't trust you to chew gum and pick your ass much less work on
something involving electricity.

Your arguments of why you should be allowed to play with dynamite prove
why others need to be protected from morons like you.

I'd be willing to bet your house is a death trap waiting on a trigger.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Noon-Air writes:

So just exactly how do you propose that we should charge enough to be
able to stay in business, be able to pay our bills, feed our familys,
pay our taxes, pay for our medical and dental care, pay for our
vehicles, pay for our homes, etc and still work for free???

No problem with you being in business or making a living. You sound like
someone who must do well at it.

The problem is the men with guns ... excuse me, the government, deciding
who gets to be in the biz and forbidding the public from dealing with
anyone else. The only situations where the gummint "cares" about
"protecting the consumer" is when there is money in it.

If the consumer needs government protection, then everything should be
licensed.

Here we have no licensing or code enforcement outside of the city limits and
just in this county alone we lose at least 6 homes and or trailers and
several lives each year due to fire because some hack or home-moaner decided
they could do it them selves. The only reason we *don't* have manditory
licensing and code enforcement state wide is because of the
builders/realtors (more often as not they are one and the same) political
pull and money. They know it will cut into their bottom line because they
know they will have to get it done right instead of getting it done the
cheapest by unlicensed hacks and raping the home buyer in the pocketbook.

Do a google on this group and see how many time a legitimate contractor has
had to correct a dangerous situation that had the potential of causing the
loss of life, limb and/or property. The stuff like that I see on almost a
daily basis is really scarey.

"bill" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

All that regulation and red tape.

The homeowners and commercial customers asked for this? "Please Mr
Politician, put all that in place because we want to be protected from
shoddy workmanship and unprofessional hacks."

These hideous systems came from pols and the trade, helping themselves
by making an industry into a gentlemen's invitation-only club.

Sorry Kinch but when you grow up maybe you'll understand why you
shouldn't let anyone do anything they want.

I wouldn't trust you to chew gum and pick your ass much less work on
something involving electricity.

Your arguments of why you should be allowed to play with dynamite prove
why others need to be protected from morons like you.

I'd be willing to bet your house is a death trap waiting on a trigger.

This is Turtle.

What Kinch's problem is he went down to the Dynamite Supply house and wanted 10
sticks and 3 fuse cap to get a stump out of his back yard and the fellow there
told him to go away. Kinch told the fellow that he had a right to buy anything
he wanted because he was a smart fellow. The fellow told Kinch that when he got
a Dynamite licences to buy , come back. So now Kinch wants to work on HVAC
systems and has hit a dead end here too. He does not know you work from the
bottom / up and not from the top / down when working in a industry.

I like the part about a Written invitation to get into a field of work. He wants
to by-pass the state & Federal regulations , schools on it, Permitting systems,
and go direct to dynamiting stumps and working on 480 volt electrical systems.
He must be a smart fellower !

TURTLE

You missed your calling in life. Get out of HVAC and get into letter
writing.

--
Christopher A. Young

Do good work.
It's longer in the short run,
But shorter in the long run.

Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

As far as pricing...no one tells me what I can or cant sell my
equipment for. I had one company that sent me a C+D letter one time,
and I replied back with an up yours....and never heard back from them
again.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
You missed your calling in life. Get out of HVAC and get into letter
writing.

--
Christopher A. Young

Do good work.
It's longer in the short run,
But shorter in the long run.

Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

As far as pricing...no one tells me what I can or cant sell my
equipment for. I had one company that sent me a C+D letter one time,
and I replied back with an up yours....and never heard back from them
again.



Funny...we are still waiting for you to get into HVAC.....

TURTLE wrote:
"Vicki Szaszvari" wrote in message
...


TURTLE wrote:


This is Turtle.

2 things here.

first it is not possible to correctly trouble shoot a system over the

internet.

Second I live in a State Louisiana who has the right to work laws and all

you

need is a epa card and a 1962 pinto station wagon and your a HVAC/R

professional

which can bid on $50,000.00 job right along side me. I've done this for 40
something years and been dealing with hacks all these years. Now these days

they

have to put up a $300K Contractor liability insurance policy to cover if

they

don't proform and that is about it. Contractor liability insurance compamys

do a

little policing of their own by not selling a policy to any person that does

not

have 5 years work experience in the field and atleast 2 years working on

their

own as a business owner. Yes you have to get out of state insurance to start

or

be let sub out under a regular hvac company like myself. Yes i have started

a

bunch of companys and is starting another one right now.

So you are being restricted not only by government but industry does not

want

the customer screwed and screwing up the jobs theirself. They know 90% of

all

home owners don't have any skill in the hvac or refrigeration field and

wants

them to call someone that will not screw it up for the next home owner to

buy

his screw up's. About 20% of my business comes from home owners fixing what
should have been done differently years ago. Also another 30% of my business
comes from hacks screwing up jobs and I come finish them. Most home owners

will

not sue the hack for a small $200.00 screw up and call me and say " Hey

Turtle

come fix this damn thing " .

Your story is not new and we hear it all the time when we are fixing screw

up

mostly.

TURTLE

Wow, what a difference. I am in a right to work state, but we
have a Registrar of Contractors and there is a law against
non-contractors doing jobs in excess of $750. Under $750, you can do it
as a "handyman." Yes, I work with a number of folks who do side jobs
and installs that are way in excess of that.

Technically, and I know it has happened, if you are not a
contractor and the customer has you do a job that exceeds that total,
they can refuse to pay and file a complaint with the Registrar of
Contractors, and you are screwed. No, I have not felt compelled to drop
a dime on anyone yet, though I've been tempted.



This is Turtle.

Outside city limits all bets are off and only in citys will you see the rules
come into effect. Outside city limits you don't need licences, insurance, or
Permitts but you can't do any commercial work at all. Commercial means any open
to the public businesses or any public owned buildings. So Only residentiual
only. The Only thing you have to have outside the city limits is a E.P.A. card.
If you don't have a E.P.A. card --- they don't have to pay you when you go to
collect for a hvac job -- Big or little. A bunch of hands get a education
without a E.P.A. card. All the warehouses will not sell to nobody except the
ones with a E.P.A. card for they know they will get hit with a bunch of none
payments and go belly up on the warehouse. Even goodman will want to see a
E.P.A. card before they sell to them. Here a warehouse can go to school just
like the Rookies.

now if your in the city limits of any city the following applies ;

Small Contractors === Min- $300K Contractor Liability insurance.
Small Contractors === Min- Small job $60K or less Electric / HVAC Licences ,
HVAC Operator City permitt / licences, E.P.A. II Card in Pocket , Recovery
Machine on truck, and Have Workman's Comp if you employee more than 5 Employees.
This will get you to do a $60k jobs or less / nothing over $250K worth of
business a year , but nothing over that.

Large Contractor === Min. $2 Mil. Contractor Liability insurance, Have Louisiana
State Commercial Electric Licences [ Adult size Lesstricity Licences ] ,
Workman's Comp on all employees, Read to and apply to Equal opportunity State
Regulations, City of Doing business in City Operator permit, Pay city fee on
jobs over $1K of $3.00 on every $1K of a job and city inspector will inspect it,
E.P.A. Card with Universial on it, Recovery Machine on trucks, Any job over $60K
must have job plain submitted to State Fire Marshal's Office, Have and Submitt
sales tax payments every month not Quarterly, and last of all full fill all
signed contractor and if not you go on probation for one. Second one you get hit
with paying other contractor to finish the job. Third one you get all licences
and operator permitts pulled for one year and you pay other contractor to full
fill your contracts. that means you go belly up.

There is no Company that can do jobs of over $60K in Allen Parish / County
except myself. They do have bigger ones who come in but they are at a
disadvantage by not being located here. The Citys and Parish Offical have a
thing now about wanting to hire companys that Hire and employee Allen Parish
people and not out of Parish or out of state labor. I hire 100% all Allen Parish
employees. I got the Adult Electric licences by Grandfathering in back in 1975
when the state adopted Licenced companys in the different fields. I sub out
Electric work on the HVAC systems if big enough to the smaller electric service
companys and they work under my licences.

TURTLE

The supply houses here ask that you have a contractor's license
before they sell you units, but there are ways around that. They only
require an E.P.A. card for buying refrigerant. At first they wanted one
for units, then decided that you needed to be a contrctor to buy those.

Except at certain hardware stores, where you only need cash to buy
a Goodman.

In article ,
"TURTLE" wrote:

What Kinch's problem is he went down to the Dynamite Supply house and wanted
10
sticks and 3 fuse cap to get a stump out of his back yard and the fellow
there
told him to go away. Kinch told the fellow that he had a right to buy
anything
he wanted because he was a smart fellow. The fellow told Kinch that when he
got
a Dynamite licences to buy , come back. So now Kinch wants to work on HVAC
systems and has hit a dead end here too. He does not know you work from the
bottom / up and not from the top / down when working in a industry.

I like the part about a Written invitation to get into a field of work. He
wants
to by-pass the state & Federal regulations , schools on it, Permitting
systems,
and go direct to dynamiting stumps and working on 480 volt electrical
systems.
He must be a smart fellower !

TURTLE

He has a Ph.D.
Customer of mine liked to hire Ph.D's. Said they were the best
dishwasher and bussboys you can get.

I think all that education makes Ph.D's feel entitled to live off the
rest of us.
Apparently adopting the socialist view is the chic thing to do.
That seems to be how academia is contructed.
I could be wrong as I only have a high school education.
It must really **** Kinch off to lose an argument to us. I imagine he's
used to that by now though.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Steve@carolinabreezehvac writes:

As far as pricing...no one tells me what I can or cant sell my
equipment for. I had one company that sent me a C+D letter one time,
and I replied back with an up yours....and never heard back from them
again.

Well, good for you. I suppose you must have had alternative suppliers
available if they cut you off for discounting. But it illustrates my
point that the mfrs are
constantly pulling these price-maintenance stunts, mostly illegal
nowadays. Nothing remarkable that the HVAC biz does it.

Maybe you are old enough to remember the "fair trade" laws (which were
in truth the opposite of fair) up until the 1960s, made it *illegal* to
charge less than list price.

When I sold a very popular line of PCs in upstate New York in the early
1980s, they literally had an Italian mob guy (yes, named "Tony") that
came around and "leaned" on you if you were suspected of charging less
than list price. He wanted me to succeed and be wealthy selling these
high-tech products made in California, but not at a discount. These
kinds of "interpersonal skills" seem to be valuable in the "independent
manufacturer's representative" line of work. And you thought it was all
Dale Carnegie hail-fellow-well-met win-friends-and-influence-people
style.

People I know in kitchen appliance retailing, farm implements sales,
garage door repair, etc., have similar stories.

Kinch , You must have missed Eco. 101 in Collage. it say the more money changes
hand the better the System works. If you sell everything at wholesale , there
would be nobody to bring it to you or work on it. The price difference between
Wholesale and retail is for the service people and dealers to ship it to you and
have a reason to offer it to you. Without this you will have to drive to
Columbia to get your coffee and to Louisiana to get your sugar for your coffee.
If you don't have the time. You will have to pay the mark up or retail price. I
know this sounds funny but it works.

TURTLE

"Vicki Szaszvari" wrote in message
...


TURTLE wrote:
"Vicki Szaszvari" wrote in message
...


TURTLE wrote:


This is Turtle.

2 things here.

first it is not possible to correctly trouble shoot a system over the

internet.

Second I live in a State Louisiana who has the right to work laws and all

you

need is a epa card and a 1962 pinto station wagon and your a HVAC/R

professional

which can bid on $50,000.00 job right along side me. I've done this for 40
something years and been dealing with hacks all these years. Now these days

they

have to put up a $300K Contractor liability insurance policy to cover if

they

don't proform and that is about it. Contractor liability insurance compamys

do a

little policing of their own by not selling a policy to any person that
does

not

have 5 years work experience in the field and atleast 2 years working on

their

own as a business owner. Yes you have to get out of state insurance to
start

or

be let sub out under a regular hvac company like myself. Yes i have started

a

bunch of companys and is starting another one right now.

So you are being restricted not only by government but industry does not

want

the customer screwed and screwing up the jobs theirself. They know 90% of

all

home owners don't have any skill in the hvac or refrigeration field and

wants

them to call someone that will not screw it up for the next home owner to

buy

his screw up's. About 20% of my business comes from home owners fixing what
should have been done differently years ago. Also another 30% of my
business
comes from hacks screwing up jobs and I come finish them. Most home owners

will

not sue the hack for a small $200.00 screw up and call me and say " Hey

Turtle

come fix this damn thing " .

Your story is not new and we hear it all the time when we are fixing screw

up

mostly.

TURTLE

Wow, what a difference. I am in a right to work state, but we
have a Registrar of Contractors and there is a law against
non-contractors doing jobs in excess of $750. Under $750, you can do it
as a "handyman." Yes, I work with a number of folks who do side jobs
and installs that are way in excess of that.

Technically, and I know it has happened, if you are not a
contractor and the customer has you do a job that exceeds that total,
they can refuse to pay and file a complaint with the Registrar of
Contractors, and you are screwed. No, I have not felt compelled to drop
a dime on anyone yet, though I've been tempted.



This is Turtle.

Outside city limits all bets are off and only in citys will you see the
rules
come into effect. Outside city limits you don't need licences, insurance, or
Permitts but you can't do any commercial work at all. Commercial means any
open
to the public businesses or any public owned buildings. So Only residentiual
only. The Only thing you have to have outside the city limits is a E.P.A.
card.
If you don't have a E.P.A. card --- they don't have to pay you when you go
to
collect for a hvac job -- Big or little. A bunch of hands get a education
without a E.P.A. card. All the warehouses will not sell to nobody except the
ones with a E.P.A. card for they know they will get hit with a bunch of none
payments and go belly up on the warehouse. Even goodman will want to see a
E.P.A. card before they sell to them. Here a warehouse can go to school just
like the Rookies.

now if your in the city limits of any city the following applies ;

Small Contractors === Min- $300K Contractor Liability insurance.
Small Contractors === Min- Small job $60K or less Electric / HVAC Licences ,
HVAC Operator City permitt / licences, E.P.A. II Card in Pocket , Recovery
Machine on truck, and Have Workman's Comp if you employee more than 5
Employees.
This will get you to do a $60k jobs or less / nothing over $250K worth of
business a year , but nothing over that.

Large Contractor === Min. $2 Mil. Contractor Liability insurance, Have
Louisiana
State Commercial Electric Licences [ Adult size Lesstricity Licences ] ,
Workman's Comp on all employees, Read to and apply to Equal opportunity
State
Regulations, City of Doing business in City Operator permit, Pay city fee on
jobs over $1K of $3.00 on every $1K of a job and city inspector will inspect
it,
E.P.A. Card with Universial on it, Recovery Machine on trucks, Any job over
$60K
must have job plain submitted to State Fire Marshal's Office, Have and
Submitt
sales tax payments every month not Quarterly, and last of all full fill all
signed contractor and if not you go on probation for one. Second one you get
hit
with paying other contractor to finish the job. Third one you get all
licences
and operator permitts pulled for one year and you pay other contractor to
full
fill your contracts. that means you go belly up.

There is no Company that can do jobs of over $60K in Allen Parish / County
except myself. They do have bigger ones who come in but they are at a
disadvantage by not being located here. The Citys and Parish Offical have a
thing now about wanting to hire companys that Hire and employee Allen Parish
people and not out of Parish or out of state labor. I hire 100% all Allen
Parish
employees. I got the Adult Electric licences by Grandfathering in back in
1975
when the state adopted Licenced companys in the different fields. I sub out
Electric work on the HVAC systems if big enough to the smaller electric
service
companys and they work under my licences.

TURTLE

The supply houses here ask that you have a contractor's license
before they sell you units, but there are ways around that. They only
require an E.P.A. card for buying refrigerant. At first they wanted one
for units, then decided that you needed to be a contrctor to buy those.

Except at certain hardware stores, where you only need cash to buy
a Goodman.



This is Turtle.

Goodman calls the Hardware store a Service dealer and if you screw it up. You
can sue the hardware store to come fix it here. They all here are gun shy for
getting sued to death. Here if you install it yourself and the compressor burns
up. you call the company you bought it from and tell them to come replace it for
nothing. AZ. must have not figured this out yet , but when they do you will see
a big change in who buys what. Even Home Cheap-0 and Low's stores make you sign
a contract for a registered or unregistered hvac contractor to install it. The
first time the Law Sueing starts you will see the end of customer selling stop.

TURTLE

bill writes:

It must really **** Kinch off to lose an argument to us.

What argument? All I see is foul-mouthed insults, unworthy of reply.

In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

bill writes:

It must really **** Kinch off to lose an argument to us.

What argument? All I see is foul-mouthed insults, unworthy of reply.

Hey! Watch your durty fricking mouth.

TURTLE wrote:

This is Turtle.

Goodman calls the Hardware store a Service dealer and if you screw it up. You
can sue the hardware store to come fix it here. They all here are gun shy for
getting sued to death. Here if you install it yourself and the compressor burns
up. you call the company you bought it from and tell them to come replace it for
nothing. AZ. must have not figured this out yet , but when they do you will see
a big change in who buys what. Even Home Cheap-0 and Low's stores make you sign
a contract for a registered or unregistered hvac contractor to install it. The
first time the Law Sueing starts you will see the end of customer selling stop.

TURTLE

I am looking forward to that! Except that some are single-owner
Ace Hardware stores.

lbecker wrote in message . ..
Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.

Lynn,
If you're going to drop $650 ( a fairly high price for a "labor only"
compressor replacement IMO) into a compressor swap on a unit over 4
years old, you might consider replacing the entire outdoor HP.
New unit, new 5-year warranty, new everything.
Get prices and consider the -next- compressor replacement will be on
your dime; over $1K.
Most importantly, have somebody qualified try and figure out what
caused the failure in the first place.
Dirty indoor coils, poor maintenance, low air volume are a heatpumps
worst enemy.
Good luck with it.

Randy

"Vicki Szaszvari" wrote in message
...


TURTLE wrote:

This is Turtle.

Goodman calls the Hardware store a Service dealer and if you screw it up.
You
can sue the hardware store to come fix it here. They all here are gun shy
for
getting sued to death. Here if you install it yourself and the compressor
burns
up. you call the company you bought it from and tell them to come replace it
for
nothing. AZ. must have not figured this out yet , but when they do you will
see
a big change in who buys what. Even Home Cheap-0 and Low's stores make you
sign
a contract for a registered or unregistered hvac contractor to install it.
The
first time the Law Sueing starts you will see the end of customer selling
stop.

TURTLE

I am looking forward to that! Except that some are single-owner
Ace Hardware stores.


This is Turtle.

The right people have not got to them yet. If a customer buys it and a local
hack screws it up like busting the valves with a drum of gas in it and the
compressor locks up. The customer can call Ace hardware and say , Hey i need you
to come change out my condenser unit compressor for me. I don't know about Az.
Law but in Louisiana law says the last person with their Company letter head on
the invoice is responciable for parts and labor for 1 year for defective
equipment. The customer is the end buyer and Ace Hardware is the Dealer in the
chain of buying the equipment becomes the dealer. Vicki just go buy one down at
Ace and if you have trouble with it. Call Ace and tell them to come fix it. they
will say No and then have it fixed and send the bill to Ace by way of the small
claims court. Louisiana has a 1 year labor warrenty on every piece of equipment
and you need to check Az. out on how long the labor warrenty is in Az. . It will
be the warrenty given by any dealer in your state if they don't come fix it the
first year. The local Ace Mom and pop store is in for a surprise if anyone
figures it out. Mom and Pop becomes the dealer that sold it and the excuse of I
sold it but i did not install it , does not work.

Now you see why Low's and Home Cheap-0 is getting dealer to install their stuff
because they want a dealer to look at to go fix it under warranty. Mom and Pop
have not been to school like Home Depot and Low's has. If this was not true,
Low's and other would sell them to anybody who walk through the door and never
require a dealer to install them. If one of their dealers or a dealer of their
liking don't install it. You don't get a warrenty and will sign a disclaimer
before you get it. Now there is another one on this. That Disclaimer is just
about as good as toilet paper if you bring them into court. In Louisiana
Disclaimer don't work on customers for they don't know about what they are doing
by signing it and the law says if you sell it you warrant it.

Mom and Pop have not been to school yet, but it is coming.

TURTLE

When Turtle says "hack" he's usually in the past meant a paid worker who
does poor quality work.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
TURTLE writes:

Richard , Your a Hack Maginet if i ever saw one or heard one reply on the
newsgroup. All the Hacks out there listening to what is said and they are
smilling like a mule eating briars.

Spoken by a rare gentlemen among scoundrels.

It appears by "hack" you mean "do-it-yourselfer who knows what he's doing".
And I do like to make them smile, mules as we may be.

TURTLE writes:

Kinch , You must have missed Eco. 101 in Collage. it say the more
money changes hand the better the System works. If you sell everything
at wholesale , there would be nobody to bring it to you or work on it.

Everything you say is true ... except I did take, literally, Econ 101.

Yes, retailing earns its markup.

What I object to is outfits that will sell quantity 1, but only to those
with certain qualifications that have nothing to do with the economics of
the transaction, in order to "protect" the trade.

Reminds me of the hair stuff sold only to "licensed beauticians".

Labor could be $60 - $80 /hr depending on where you live. Compressor or
condensing unit, the price you pay is double what the installer's company
pays. In fact, everything they use, fittings, copper, freon, is doubled

Figure 1 hr, without ANY other THAN LABOR.



"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
...
TURTLE writes:

Kinch , You must have missed Eco. 101 in Collage. it say the more
money changes hand the better the System works. If you sell everything
at wholesale , there would be nobody to bring it to you or work on it.

Everything you say is true ... except I did take, literally, Econ 101.

Yes, retailing earns its markup.

What I object to is outfits that will sell quantity 1, but only to those
with certain qualifications that have nothing to do with the economics of
the transaction, in order to "protect" the trade.

Reminds me of the hair stuff sold only to "licensed beauticians".

Left crosspost in place due to massive ignorance from whoever Sallyd is..

wrote in message
t...
Labor could be $60 - $80 /hr depending on where you live.

10 years ago...maybe. Not too many service companies will survive on that.


Compressor or
condensing unit, the price you pay is double what the installer's company
pays. In fact, everything they use, fittings, copper, freon, is doubled

And that would be a lie...at best, you have been misinformed.


Figure 1 hr, without ANY other THAN LABOR.

So....you give your time away to your employer as well I suppose?
If you havent done this, try it some time and see how you like it...

Go in on a Monday, and tell your boss that he has you free, for 3 days..each
week..you only need to get paid for the remaining 2.




"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
...
TURTLE writes:

Kinch , You must have missed Eco. 101 in Collage. it say the more
money changes hand the better the System works. If you sell everything
at wholesale , there would be nobody to bring it to you or work on it.

Everything you say is true ... except I did take, literally, Econ 101.

Yes, retailing earns its markup.

What I object to is outfits that will sell quantity 1, but only to those
with certain qualifications that have nothing to do with the economics
of
the transaction, in order to "protect" the trade.

Reminds me of the hair stuff sold only to "licensed beauticians".

In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

Everything you say is true ... except I did take, literally, Econ 101.

Yes, retailing earns its markup.

What I object to is outfits that will sell quantity 1, but only to those
with certain qualifications that have nothing to do with the economics of
the transaction, in order to "protect" the trade.

Reminds me of the hair stuff sold only to "licensed beauticians".

You have no idea of the training cosmotologists go through or the
medical aspects.
Whine as you like Kinch but the world doesn't revolve around your
socialist ass.

wrote in message
t...
Labor could be $60 - $80 /hr depending on where you live. Compressor or
condensing unit, the price you pay is double what the installer's company
pays. In fact, everything they use, fittings, copper, freon, is doubled

Figure 1 hr, without ANY other THAN LABOR.


This is Turtle.

You forgot one small thing. If the condenser unit or compressor burns up in 1
year or less. the servce man charging all this over charges is going to fix it
for nothing the next time during that 1 year warrenty period. If we screw up, we
have to pay for the repairs for the warrenty period .

A Brand new Chevy Silverodo King Cab fully loaded cost to the manufactor to
produce is about $6,800.00 . They sell for $28,000.00 to $35,000.00 and who's
getting this big bunch of cash for nothing by selling them. Now they sometimes
fix or replace them for 5 years or a 100k miles.

TURTLE

x-post left intentionally

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
...
TURTLE writes:

Kinch , You must have missed Eco. 101 in Collage. it say the more
money changes hand the better the System works. If you sell everything
at wholesale , there would be nobody to bring it to you or work on it.

Everything you say is true ... except I did take, literally, Econ 101.

Yes, retailing earns its markup.

What I object to is outfits that will sell quantity 1, but only to those
with certain qualifications that have nothing to do with the economics of
the transaction, in order to "protect" the trade.

Reminds me of the hair stuff sold only to "licensed beauticians".

Kinch.........You never answered the question I asked a week ago.........

Just exactly what is it that you do??? how much are you overpaid?? what does
it cost you to pay for a roof over your head??? how much does it cost to
feed your family??? how much does it cost for your medical and dental
insurance?? how much do you pay in taxes?? how much does it cost to run and
maintain your vehicles??? how much less can you get paid and still survive??

inquiring minds want to know.

one more question to add to the mix.... How many hours a week do *you* work
before you demand to be paid overtime???

inquiring minds still want to know.

--
Steve @ Noon-Air Heating & A/C

The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous now
as it was in Sampsons time.

On 3 Sep 2004 22:03:23 -0700, (rockinghorse)
wrote:

lbecker wrote in message . ..
Hi,

I have a Lennox Heat Pump model HP-27-042
(http://lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HP27) and the
compressor died in it.

Luckily there is a warranty on the part, but I need to pay labor to
have it replaced. (I don't have an annual contract, but based on the
cost estimate I got, I would have broken even anyway I think).

In any case I got an estimate of $650 to replace the compressor, and
while to my non-HVAC professional eye, it looks like it could be time
consuming (i.e. doesn't look real simple to just swap it in and out)
$650 struck me as kind of high. I am going to try to get a 2nd quote,
but figured I would check with the pros in here to see if that was at
least a reasonable ball park number.

thanks in advance for any input or advice.

- Lynn B.

Lynn,
If you're going to drop $650 ( a fairly high price for a "labor only"
compressor replacement IMO) into a compressor swap on a unit over 4
years old, you might consider replacing the entire outdoor HP.
New unit, new 5-year warranty, new everything.
Get prices and consider the -next- compressor replacement will be on
your dime; over $1K.
Most importantly, have somebody qualified try and figure out what
caused the failure in the first place.
Dirty indoor coils, poor maintenance, low air volume are a heatpumps
worst enemy.
Good luck with it.

Randy

thanks. it is done deal and fixed. most of the replies I had were
"flat rate of = $750"...

The main big old capacitor in there was bad and leaking a lot..
speculation was that its going bad eventually took the compressor
out...

whatever. it is changed and done.

- LB

Noon-Air writes:

Kinch.........You never answered the question I asked a week ago.........

Just exactly what is it that you do?

Google "Richard Kinch" (no quotes):

http://www.google.com/search?q=richard+kinch

16,500 hits today.

9 of top 10 are about me.

Google "Richard J Kinch" (in double quotes), 1570 hits, all me.

For another one of my unusually successful pro-bono do-it-yourself
enterprises (besides HVAC), Google "garage door spring" (no quotes). Mine
is the second of the top ten, the one with actual advice vs yelling "no
touchie!" or trying to sell something.

What do I do? Among other things, I spend a fair amount of time every day
answering fan mail from fellow do-it-yourself'ers.

Compressor or
condensing unit, the price you pay is double what the installer's company
pays. In fact, everything they use, fittings, copper, freon, is doubled

Nothing wrong with that. The do-it-yourself'er buys one at a time, you buy
'em by the truckload.

Of course I stocked up on a lifetime supply of R-12 in 1990, and R-22
later, when it was still cheap and legal. I'll bet you pay more today than
I did then, carrying costs included.

In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

Compressor or
condensing unit, the price you pay is double what the installer's company
pays. In fact, everything they use, fittings, copper, freon, is doubled

Nothing wrong with that. The do-it-yourself'er buys one at a time, you buy
'em by the truckload.

Of course I stocked up on a lifetime supply of R-12 in 1990, and R-22
later, when it was still cheap and legal. I'll bet you pay more today than
I did then, carrying costs included.

So... have you been paying the tax on that refrigerant every year?

You do know you owe tax on it don't you kinchy?