On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have read
that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the protests. One
person said that they had larger spread for a single bar than protests at the
same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches.
The problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

trader_4 formulated the question :
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches.
The problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that decision.
I'm sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might not be wrong
if he does think that.

FromTheRafters laid this down on his screen :
trader_4 formulated the question :
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and breathe
in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches. The
problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that decision. I'm
sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might not be wrong if he does
think that.

Must meet MERV-3 apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimu...eporting_value

FromTheRafters wrote on 7/11/2020 :
trader_4 formulated the question :
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and breathe
in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches. The
problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that decision. I'm
sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might not be wrong if he does
think that.

Must meet MERV-13 apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimu...eporting_value

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:38:18 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

trader_4 formulated the question :
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches.
The problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that decision.
I'm sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might not be wrong
if he does think that.

Anyone who refuses to follow the money will remain lost in the weeds
of confusion about why things are the way they are.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:46:38 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

FromTheRafters laid this down on his screen :
trader_4 formulated the question :
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and breathe
in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches. The
problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that decision. I'm
sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might not be wrong if he does
think that.

Must meet MERV-3 apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimu...eporting_value

MERV3 is barely adequate to catch saw dust, basically that woven
fiberglass filter people used to use in their furnace. (20% of 10
micron particles)

What do you figure the MERV number is for all of those T shirt rags,
bandannas and neck gaiters the sanctimonious are wearing?

I notice the idea that health care workers can just wrap an old T
shirt around their face went away pretty fast.
As Chevy Chase said "but it is good enough for you tho".

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:47:22 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

FromTheRafters wrote on 7/11/2020 :
trader_4 formulated the question :
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and breathe
in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches. The
problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that decision. I'm
sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might not be wrong if he does
think that.

Must meet MERV-13 apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimu...eporting_value

That sounds better. That is up in the "pleated paper" filter category.
It is more in the area of an N-80/85 mask. (85% of 0.3 microns) Still
not "respirator" territory.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 15:46:26 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

I think I said that. A crowded, noisy, bar may be the worst case
scenario. I think being outside had more effect than the mask since a
lot were not wearing one.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:10:18 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have read
that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the protests. One
person said that they had larger spread for a single bar than protests at the
same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches.
The problem is we are still on the first wave.

I don't know where you are from but in most of the country, people
will be indoors. Air conditioning and 90+ degree days assures that.
The few outdoor things that people might be tempted to do are going to
be banned if we continue the lockdowns. (Beaches, pools, golf courses,
boat ramps etc). I see little difference between winter and summer. We
squandered most of the spring outdoor activity opportunities hiding
under the bed.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many
like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed
voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can
just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

Makes more sense to vote for a useless like Biden to get rid of Trump
given that a prez that does nothing is less destructive than a fool like
Trump who thrashes around like made and cancels treatys like mad,
instead of wasting your vote on someone who cant be prez.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:10:18 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read
that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One
person said that they had larger spread for a single bar than protests
at the
same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches.
The problem is we are still on the first wave.

I don't know where you are from but in most of the country, people
will be indoors. Air conditioning and 90+ degree days assures that.
The few outdoor things that people might be tempted to do are going to
be banned if we continue the lockdowns. (Beaches, pools, golf courses,
boat ramps etc).

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

We squandered most of the spring outdoor
activity opportunities hiding under the bed.

That is in fact what reduced the infection rate, stupid.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 04:53:41 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
JimK addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"I really feel the quality of your trolling has dropped in the last few
months..."
MID:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 04:56:08 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 2:56:18 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

Which cooler parts are those? I live in Michigan and the temperature
has been over 32 C for the better part of two weeks.

We've had the air-conditioning running constantly for more than a
month.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 04:56:08 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:10:18 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read
that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One
person said that they had larger spread for a single bar than protests
at the
same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches.
The problem is we are still on the first wave.

I don't know where you are from but in most of the country, people
will be indoors. Air conditioning and 90+ degree days assures that.
The few outdoor things that people might be tempted to do are going to
be banned if we continue the lockdowns. (Beaches, pools, golf courses,
boat ramps etc).

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

What cooler parts?
There are a few places, usually up in the mountains but my kids in
Michigan are complaining about the heat and they were raised in
Florida.

It is usually hotter in DC than it is in most of Florida in July and
August.

The reality is, even if it is only 85, those snowflakes would melt if
they went outside so they are hunkered down in the AC. The thing I
hear from all of them is they can dress for the cold and go out in it
but there is nothing they can do for the heat but stay in the AC.


We squandered most of the spring outdoor
activity opportunities hiding under the bed.

That is in fact what reduced the infection rate, stupid.

The difference is they were staying inside alone. Now they are having
covid parties ... inside.
They would be better off if they went to the beach or the pool as long
as they were not all huddled together passing a joint or something.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:50:58 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 2:56:18 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

Which cooler parts are those? I live in Michigan and the temperature
has been over 32 C for the better part of two weeks.

We've had the air-conditioning running constantly for more than a
month.

Cindy Hamilton

That is what my kids are complaining about and they grew up in Ft
Myers.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:22:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:38:18 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

trader_4 formulated the question :
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches.
The problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that decision.
I'm sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might not be wrong
if he does think that.

Anyone who refuses to follow the money will remain lost in the weeds
of confusion about why things are the way they are.

I think you're spot on. No one knows more about being lost in the weeds of
confusion.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

On 7/11/2020 8:04 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 04:56:08 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:10:18 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read
that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One
person said that they had larger spread for a single bar than protests
at the
same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches.
The problem is we are still on the first wave.

I don't know where you are from but in most of the country, people
will be indoors. Air conditioning and 90+ degree days assures that.
The few outdoor things that people might be tempted to do are going to
be banned if we continue the lockdowns. (Beaches, pools, golf courses,
boat ramps etc).

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

What cooler parts?
There are a few places, usually up in the mountains but my kids in
Michigan are complaining about the heat and they were raised in
Florida.

It is usually hotter in DC than it is in most of Florida in July and
August.

The reality is, even if it is only 85, those snowflakes would melt if
they went outside so they are hunkered down in the AC. The thing I
hear from all of them is they can dress for the cold and go out in it
but there is nothing they can do for the heat but stay in the AC.


We squandered most of the spring outdoor
activity opportunities hiding under the bed.

That is in fact what reduced the infection rate, stupid.

The difference is they were staying inside alone. Now they are having
covid parties ... inside.
They would be better off if they went to the beach or the pool as long
as they were not all huddled together passing a joint or something.


A bit cooler than normal here. Few days over low 70's. So comfortable.

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 1:09:06 AM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

Same here. I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on a lot of policy,
but it's not about policy anymore. It's about a really bad experiment
that's gone terribly wrong. The Trumpets insisted that no other GOP
candidate was any good, it had to be Trump. They assured us that he was
mentally fit, not only competent, but a great businessman who would bring
all the skills of a successful CEO to work for America. Instead we got
a deranged, evil, orange clown and one **** show after another. He
won't listen to anyone, won't learn, won't learn from his mistakes.
He can't handle Covid, he's screwed that totally, how about the next
screw up is a nuclear war?

Beyond that, the GOP needs to suffer an epic defeat, at all levels, to
totally repudiate what they have done. Otherwise, having paid no price
for their enabling Trump, they will just keep doing the same stupid things.
We tried everything else to bring them to reason, this is the only
option left. In decades of voting, prior to Trump, I only voted for a
few Democrats and only at the local level. One guy I knew. The others
the GOP county level politicians had gotten arrogant, were feeding at
the trough and had control. I voted for Democrats to get someone to keep
an eye on them, reign them in. This time I will be voting for all Democrats.
And I ended my GOP registration a year ago. I'm so glad I did, my
conscience is clear as I watch the final **** show.

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 11:06:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:50:58 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 2:56:18 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

Which cooler parts are those? I live in Michigan and the temperature
has been over 32 C for the better part of two weeks.

We've had the air-conditioning running constantly for more than a
month.

Cindy Hamilton

That is what my kids are complaining about and they grew up in Ft
Myers.

Maybe time for the Republicans to accept the science on global warming too?
Nah, better to lie and deny.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:06:39 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:22:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:38:18 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

trader_4 formulated the question :
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches.
The problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that decision.
I'm sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might not be wrong
if he does think that.

Anyone who refuses to follow the money will remain lost in the weeds
of confusion about why things are the way they are.

I think you're spot on. No one knows more about being lost in the weeds of
confusion.

If you are not following the money you live in fantasy land. They may
end up collecting close to $2billion in this election and that is not
coming from little people. Big money is buying our government and
folks like you are still in denial.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:09:03 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

Biden is slipping into dementia.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:17:27 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 11:06:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:50:58 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 2:56:18 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

Which cooler parts are those? I live in Michigan and the temperature
has been over 32 C for the better part of two weeks.

We've had the air-conditioning running constantly for more than a
month.

Cindy Hamilton

That is what my kids are complaining about and they grew up in Ft
Myers.

Maybe time for the Republicans to accept the science on global warming too?
Nah, better to lie and deny.


It was hot in DC in the summer when I was growing up. 100 was not
unusual.
Trying to pivot this to global warming is just reaffirming what I said
tho. People are inside in the AC in the summer, duplicating the
conditions they blame disease transmission on in the winter. Limiting
outside activities they might brave the heat to do like go to the
beach, golf course or the pool is counter productive.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:09:03 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work
out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many
like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president
anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed
voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something
to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can
just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

Biden is slipping into dementia.

So did Raygun and ****wit_4m recons he was gods gift to the presidency.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 05:14:21 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

pretended :
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:47:22 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

FromTheRafters wrote on 7/11/2020 :
trader_4 formulated the question :
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Bob F explained :
On 7/10/2020 12:28 PM, wrote:

I have managed to live a long and fruitful life without ever attending
a political rally, demonstration or convention.
OTOH it is not much different than going to a movie, a sports event or
a make out bar. It is just more politically charged.

We still haven't seen anyone talking about the bloom of cases from the
BLM riots.
Maybe there is something about being outside or maybe tear gas and the
smoke from burning buildings does kill the corona.


Maybe wearing masks and being outside both make a big difference. I have
read that there were not many indications of mass spreading from the
protests. One person said that they had larger spread for a single bar
than protests at the same time.

The less we breathe each other's exhalations, the better. Outside is
better, in a room well ventilated with fresh air is not too bad.
Recirculated air is worse and worse still is a closed crowded room.

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and breathe
in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter approaches. The
problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed. That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them. So why there and not businesses, regular stores, supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc? Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that decision. I'm
sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might not be wrong if he
does think that.

Must meet MERV-13 apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimu...eporting_value

That sounds better. That is up in the "pleated paper" filter category.
It is more in the area of an N-80/85 mask. (85% of 0.3 microns) Still
not "respirator" territory.

AIOE doesn't allow cancels no matter how quick you are.

On 7/12/2020 5:05 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:

Our second wave is expected to hit as people go indoors more and
breathe in each other's exhalations more as northern Winter
approaches. The problem is we are still on the first wave.

In NY state apparently shopping malls can only open if they have a
special air filtering system installed.* That struck me as bizarre.
These malls have huge air spaces, even stores like Macy's the ceilings
are very high, lots of open space compared to the number of people
in them.* So why there and not businesses, regular stores,
supermarkets,
apartment buildings, etc?* Most of those have more people in less
air space.

It would be interesting to read about how they came to that
decision. I'm sure gfretwell sees $$$ as a major factor - he might
not be wrong if he does* think that.

Must meet MERV-13 apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimu...eporting_value

That sounds better. That is up in the "pleated paper" filter category.
It is more in the area of an N-80/85 mask. (85% of 0.3 microns) Still
not "respirator" territory.

AIOE doesn't allow cancels no matter how quick you are.

I use MERV-13 in my heat/ac at home. House never has dust on furniture.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:05:21 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:17:27 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 11:06:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:50:58 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 2:56:18 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

Which cooler parts are those? I live in Michigan and the temperature
has been over 32 C for the better part of two weeks.

We've had the air-conditioning running constantly for more than a
month.

Cindy Hamilton

That is what my kids are complaining about and they grew up in Ft
Myers.

Maybe time for the Republicans to accept the science on global warming too?
Nah, better to lie and deny.


It was hot in DC in the summer when I was growing up. 100 was not
unusual.

What does that have to do with global climate change?

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:35:40 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:09:03 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

Biden is slipping into dementia.

I agree, but you misspelled Trump.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:15:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 1:09:06 AM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

Same here. I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on a lot of policy,
but it's not about policy anymore. It's about a really bad experiment
that's gone terribly wrong. The Trumpets insisted that no other GOP
candidate was any good, it had to be Trump. They assured us that he was
mentally fit, not only competent, but a great businessman who would bring
all the skills of a successful CEO to work for America.

Did you see that Trump floated the idea of selling Puerto Rico because it
was so damaged by that hurricane? I guess that's the flip side of trying to
buy Greenland.

Instead we got
a deranged, evil, orange clown and one **** show after another. He
won't listen to anyone, won't learn, won't learn from his mistakes.
He can't handle Covid, he's screwed that totally, how about the next
screw up is a nuclear war?

I don't see much cooperation lately with NK. I wonder how the KJU love
affair is going? Satellite photos have recently shown that they're still
working on something.

Beyond that, the GOP needs to suffer an epic defeat, at all levels, to
totally repudiate what they have done. Otherwise, having paid no price
for their enabling Trump, they will just keep doing the same stupid things.
We tried everything else to bring them to reason, this is the only
option left. In decades of voting, prior to Trump, I only voted for a
few Democrats and only at the local level. One guy I knew. The others
the GOP county level politicians had gotten arrogant, were feeding at
the trough and had control. I voted for Democrats to get someone to keep
an eye on them, reign them in. This time I will be voting for all Democrats.
And I ended my GOP registration a year ago. I'm so glad I did, my
conscience is clear as I watch the final **** show.

To me, the only thing the current R party has in common with the party from
4 years ago is the name. Who would have thought that a major political
party could be turned upside down so quickly.

"Jim Joyce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:15:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 1:09:06 AM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You
seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work
out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many
like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president
anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed
voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's
something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can
just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is
not.

Same here. I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on a lot of policy,
but it's not about policy anymore. It's about a really bad experiment
that's gone terribly wrong. The Trumpets insisted that no other GOP
candidate was any good, it had to be Trump. They assured us that he was
mentally fit, not only competent, but a great businessman who would bring
all the skills of a successful CEO to work for America.

Did you see that Trump floated the idea of selling Puerto Rico because it
was so damaged by that hurricane? I guess that's the flip side of trying
to
buy Greenland.

Instead we got
a deranged, evil, orange clown and one **** show after another. He
won't listen to anyone, won't learn, won't learn from his mistakes.
He can't handle Covid, he's screwed that totally, how about the next
screw up is a nuclear war?

I don't see much cooperation lately with NK. I wonder how the KJU love
affair is going? Satellite photos have recently shown that they're still
working on something.

Beyond that, the GOP needs to suffer an epic defeat, at all levels, to
totally repudiate what they have done. Otherwise, having paid no price
for their enabling Trump, they will just keep doing the same stupid
things.
We tried everything else to bring them to reason, this is the only
option left. In decades of voting, prior to Trump, I only voted for a
few Democrats and only at the local level. One guy I knew. The others
the GOP county level politicians had gotten arrogant, were feeding at
the trough and had control. I voted for Democrats to get someone to keep
an eye on them, reign them in. This time I will be voting for all
Democrats.
And I ended my GOP registration a year ago. I'm so glad I did, my
conscience is clear as I watch the final **** show.

To me, the only thing the current R party has in common
with the party from 4 years ago is the name.

Its not quite that bad, it's still much less left than the Dems.

Who would have thought that a major political
party could be turned upside down so quickly.

Hardly any of the party wanted Trump at all, they
got stuck, with him when he had worked out how
to appeal to enough of the most stupid voters.

And will do so again this time too, you watch.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:00:21 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:05:21 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:17:27 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 11:06:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:50:58 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 2:56:18 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

Which cooler parts are those? I live in Michigan and the temperature
has been over 32 C for the better part of two weeks.

We've had the air-conditioning running constantly for more than a
month.

Cindy Hamilton

That is what my kids are complaining about and they grew up in Ft
Myers.

Maybe time for the Republicans to accept the science on global warming too?
Nah, better to lie and deny.


It was hot in DC in the summer when I was growing up. 100 was not
unusual.

What does that have to do with global climate change?

I didn't bring up climate change, I only pointed out they have air
conditioning all over the north and people like it inside.

On 7/12/2020 10:35 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:09:03 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

Biden is slipping into dementia.


Pure nonsense. Anyone that wants can find his recent statements online,
and clearly see that he is way more thoughtful and reasonable that just
about any repub.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:00:40 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/12/2020 10:35 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:09:03 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

Biden is slipping into dementia.


Pure nonsense. Anyone that wants can find his recent statements online,
and clearly see that he is way more thoughtful and reasonable that just
about any repub.

So he has good writers working for him. The problem is when he
actually speaks for himself off script. Then the weird **** comes out.
This isn't about Trump unless you are really on a race to the bottom.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 23:28:17 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:00:21 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:05:21 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:17:27 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 11:06:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:50:58 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 2:56:18 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

I see little difference between winter and summer.

More fool you in the cooler parts of the USA in summer.

Which cooler parts are those? I live in Michigan and the temperature
has been over 32 C for the better part of two weeks.

We've had the air-conditioning running constantly for more than a
month.

Cindy Hamilton

That is what my kids are complaining about and they grew up in Ft
Myers.

Maybe time for the Republicans to accept the science on global warming too?
Nah, better to lie and deny.


It was hot in DC in the summer when I was growing up. 100 was not
unusual.

What does that have to do with global climate change?

I didn't bring up climate change, I only pointed out they have air
conditioning all over the north and people like it inside.

I didn't say you brought up climate change, but you responded to a comment
about climate change by talking about how hot it was in DC. So I asked what
that has to do with climate change. Care to take a guess?

On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:27:36 +1000, Joshua Snow, better known as
cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 11:19:13 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:15:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 1:09:06 AM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

Same here. I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on a lot of policy,
but it's not about policy anymore. It's about a really bad experiment
that's gone terribly wrong. The Trumpets insisted that no other GOP
candidate was any good, it had to be Trump. They assured us that he was
mentally fit, not only competent, but a great businessman who would bring
all the skills of a successful CEO to work for America.

Did you see that Trump floated the idea of selling Puerto Rico because it
was so damaged by that hurricane? I guess that's the flip side of trying to
buy Greenland.

No, I didn't. I presume that was back right after the hurricane?
Doesn't surprise me though. Did you see how there was little reaction
to all that totally screwy BS Trump told to Telemundo that we were talking
about? That's how low Trump has taken the office. He spews forth really
bizarre, crazy, stupid things and the media and country hardly notice
anymore. The WH does cleanup, simply ignoring what Trump actually said
and pretending nothing was amiss, claiming Trump didn't say anything different
or unusual at all. Everyone has become numb to it. If any other, normal,
sane president had done that, there would have been a huge uproar and
it would have gone on for days. With Trump, Americans and the world have come
to accept him as a crazy, incompetent buffoon that should be mostly ignored.
In fact that's what Fretwell told us the other day, that he just ignores him.
And Trump ignores Covid and most of his other duties.

With what Trump said to Telemundo, I think Pelosi and Schumer blew it too.
They should have come out the next morning, ignored the WH cleanup and
said that they welcome Trump's new position, welcome that he now wants
to give citizenship to DACA. Pelosi should have said that she can
guarantee that the House will pass a path to citizenship for DACA bill
and Schumer should have said the Democrats in the Senate will support it
too. That would put the focus back on Trump and his Telemundo BS and
give the rest of the Republicans grief on the issue too.







Instead we got
a deranged, evil, orange clown and one **** show after another. He
won't listen to anyone, won't learn, won't learn from his mistakes.
He can't handle Covid, he's screwed that totally, how about the next
screw up is a nuclear war?

I don't see much cooperation lately with NK. I wonder how the KJU love
affair is going? Satellite photos have recently shown that they're still
working on something.

I think they are still working on everything. Nothing has stopped, just
some testing. The nuclear testing had advanced over many years, the last
test was big, so they have working warheads and testing is not as critical
now. ICBMs they are continuing to develop, they have just held off testing
and I would expect that a new test is coming before long, maybe before
the election.






Beyond that, the GOP needs to suffer an epic defeat, at all levels, to
totally repudiate what they have done. Otherwise, having paid no price
for their enabling Trump, they will just keep doing the same stupid things.
We tried everything else to bring them to reason, this is the only
option left. In decades of voting, prior to Trump, I only voted for a
few Democrats and only at the local level. One guy I knew. The others
the GOP county level politicians had gotten arrogant, were feeding at
the trough and had control. I voted for Democrats to get someone to keep
an eye on them, reign them in. This time I will be voting for all Democrats.
And I ended my GOP registration a year ago. I'm so glad I did, my
conscience is clear as I watch the final **** show.

To me, the only thing the current R party has in common with the party from
4 years ago is the name. Who would have thought that a major political
party could be turned upside down so quickly.

Sadly I agree. It's become nothing but the cult of the evil, orange clown.
And as I've said before, I think there is a good chance it's the end.
The GOP has been slowly losing voters versus the Democrats for decades
now. Part of it is demographic trends. Even where they have picked up
voters, among Evangelicals, they are losing. They've pretty much got
all the support from them that they can wring out and the percentage of
Americans who are Evangelicals has been steadily declining. Trump is
driving everyone else away in droves at an accelerating pace. And when
he's gone, what happens then? I don't see them returning to their
principles and values and coalescing around a
reasonable candidate, a Romney, a Kasich, a Larry Hogan, etc. I see
the nasty, divisive BS resuming within the party, with the Trumpets
insisting they want another Trump type. Maybe Don Jr would make them
happy. The wild cards are how far left and crazy the Democrats get
and coming crises for America, eg the rapidly escalating national debt,
how Covid plays out, etc.

Mick Mulvaney said last week that if this election becomes a referendum
on Trump, Trump has a big headwind to get re-elected. My first reaction
was that any re-election with an incumbent is usually a referendum on
them. Second, how can it not be a referendum on Trump? It's always
been Trump, Trump, Trump. Trump makes sure of that, so how can it change
now? I was watching Meet the Press yesterday. At the end, one of the
panelist mentioned Biden. Chuck Todd noted that was only the second time
his name has been mentioned during the hour.

Another big mistake I think is Trump dismissing Biden as some
senile, old man. Trump has set the bar for Biden extremely low. When
they have their first debate, Biden doesn't have to do a great job,
all he has to do is show that he's not senile and can answer questions.
And with all the ammo out there to use against Trump, to get Trump
riled up, to get him to go nuts, I'd say it's very possible, even likely
that the debate will turn out to be a big surprise for Trump and the Trumpets.
The usual circus of insults, lies, and BS may not work anymore,
especially with 200K+ Americans dead and the economy sucking wind.

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 12:31:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:00:40 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/12/2020 10:35 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:09:03 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:41:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:31:51 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 3:23:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump has made almost everything about Trump, not me.

Now who is the gullible one? I have no problem ignoring him. You seem
to hang on his every word.

Maybe that's the problem, you choose to ignore it. How did that work out
for the German people in the 30s? Or even here in America, when many like
you ignored what he was saying and doing and elected him president anyway
and we have had nothing but a **** show? I prefer to be an informed voter,
it works much better that way.

Like you, I prefer to be an informed voter, but maybe there's something to
be said for the Muggles/Fretwell approach. Life is easier when you can just
sit on the porch swing or the golf cart, fat, dumb, and happy.

A truly informed voter couldn't vote for either of those bozos. I know
you will hold your nose and vote for bi bi biden but I wouldn't brag
about it.

I won't be holding my nose. Biden is qualified for the job. Trump is not.

Biden is slipping into dementia.


Pure nonsense. Anyone that wants can find his recent statements online,
and clearly see that he is way more thoughtful and reasonable that just
about any repub.

So he has good writers working for him. The problem is when he
actually speaks for himself off script. Then the weird **** comes out.
This isn't about Trump unless you are really on a race to the bottom.

Say what? This election isn't about Trump? Trump has made it all about
Trump, Trump, Trump for the last 4 years. And whatever may be wrong
with Biden, he behaves far more normal than Trump, that's very obvious.
As to the race to the bottom, we're already there. That's a result of
the mistake made in the last election, where there were enough swing
voters willing to give Trump a chance. That together with Russia's
help, put Trump in the WH. I doubt voters will make the same mistake
again, but Putin will probably try to help him again.