On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 1:59:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 10:25:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Explain.
If he makes the splices compliant and puts some locknuts on the
conduits it should pass any inspection. The same guy who made up the
box in the first place could make it up right faster than arguing
about it. I have seen plenty of licensed electricians who would need a
tune up about why that box failed. That is far from a panacea.
I even know inspectors who might say "no problem" with what he has.




Would you think it would have been ok to use something like split bolts
or equivilent and covering them with something like that rubber tape you
were giving away and maybe a layer or two of Scotch 33. Then burrying
the wire.


You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.

You're not that concerned about metal screws through energized terminals
going through the box and into a wood fence?

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 1:59:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 10:25:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Explain.
If he makes the splices compliant and puts some locknuts on the
conduits it should pass any inspection. The same guy who made up the
box in the first place could make it up right faster than arguing
about it. I have seen plenty of licensed electricians who would need a
tune up about why that box failed. That is far from a panacea.
I even know inspectors who might say "no problem" with what he has.




Would you think it would have been ok to use something like split bolts
or equivilent and covering them with something like that rubber tape you
were giving away and maybe a layer or two of Scotch 33. Then burrying
the wire.


You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.

You're not that concerned about metal screws through energized terminals
going through the box and into a wood fence?

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 1:59:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 10:25:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Explain.
If he makes the splices compliant and puts some locknuts on the
conduits it should pass any inspection. The same guy who made up the
box in the first place could make it up right faster than arguing
about it. I have seen plenty of licensed electricians who would need a
tune up about why that box failed. That is far from a panacea.
I even know inspectors who might say "no problem" with what he has.




Would you think it would have been ok to use something like split bolts
or equivilent and covering them with something like that rubber tape you
were giving away and maybe a layer or two of Scotch 33. Then burrying
the wire.


You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.

You're not that concerned about metal screws through energized terminals
going through the box and into a wood fence?

Things would have been even more interesting if the box was attached to a
steel pole instead of wood. :-)

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 1:59:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 10:25:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Explain.
If he makes the splices compliant and puts some locknuts on the
conduits it should pass any inspection. The same guy who made up the
box in the first place could make it up right faster than arguing
about it. I have seen plenty of licensed electricians who would need a
tune up about why that box failed. That is far from a panacea.
I even know inspectors who might say "no problem" with what he has.




Would you think it would have been ok to use something like split bolts
or equivilent and covering them with something like that rubber tape you
were giving away and maybe a layer or two of Scotch 33. Then burrying
the wire.


You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.

You're not that concerned about metal screws through energized terminals
going through the box and into a wood fence?

Things would have been even more interesting if the box was attached to a
steel pole instead of wood. :-)

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 1:59:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 10:25:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Explain.
If he makes the splices compliant and puts some locknuts on the
conduits it should pass any inspection. The same guy who made up the
box in the first place could make it up right faster than arguing
about it. I have seen plenty of licensed electricians who would need a
tune up about why that box failed. That is far from a panacea.
I even know inspectors who might say "no problem" with what he has.




Would you think it would have been ok to use something like split bolts
or equivilent and covering them with something like that rubber tape you
were giving away and maybe a layer or two of Scotch 33. Then burrying
the wire.


You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.

You're not that concerned about metal screws through energized terminals
going through the box and into a wood fence?

Things would have been even more interesting if the box was attached to a
steel pole instead of wood. :-)

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 1:59:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 10:25:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Explain.
If he makes the splices compliant and puts some locknuts on the
conduits it should pass any inspection. The same guy who made up the
box in the first place could make it up right faster than arguing
about it. I have seen plenty of licensed electricians who would need a
tune up about why that box failed. That is far from a panacea.
I even know inspectors who might say "no problem" with what he has.




Would you think it would have been ok to use something like split bolts
or equivilent and covering them with something like that rubber tape you
were giving away and maybe a layer or two of Scotch 33. Then burrying
the wire.


You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.

You're not that concerned about metal screws through energized terminals
going through the box and into a wood fence?

Things would have been even more interesting if the box was attached to a
steel pole instead of wood. :-)

In article ,
says...

You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.



So it would be ok to just splice and burry with proper crimp and tape
that is designed to be burried ? I thought it would be possiable to use
a butt splice on the wires if done in a way that water proofs them.

I would probably do that anyway if it was just my stuff. While not
legal, I wanted a place to plug in my 5 kw portable generator on the
outside of the house. I put in a 30 amp breaker and used # 10 wire with
2 hots, neutral and ground. That went to a box on the outside wall that
has the 'water proff' cover. I am sure it does not meet code as
probably needed to be agound fault or something.

I worked in industry with lots of 480 3 phase and other 'high power'
circuits. So I know the dangers of what I did even the use of what I
refer to as a 'double sucide cord' (the kind with males on both end).
If I was doing the work for someone else, I would make sure it was done
to the code.

In article ,
says...

You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.



So it would be ok to just splice and burry with proper crimp and tape
that is designed to be burried ? I thought it would be possiable to use
a butt splice on the wires if done in a way that water proofs them.

I would probably do that anyway if it was just my stuff. While not
legal, I wanted a place to plug in my 5 kw portable generator on the
outside of the house. I put in a 30 amp breaker and used # 10 wire with
2 hots, neutral and ground. That went to a box on the outside wall that
has the 'water proff' cover. I am sure it does not meet code as
probably needed to be agound fault or something.

I worked in industry with lots of 480 3 phase and other 'high power'
circuits. So I know the dangers of what I did even the use of what I
refer to as a 'double sucide cord' (the kind with males on both end).
If I was doing the work for someone else, I would make sure it was done
to the code.

In article ,
says...

You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.



So it would be ok to just splice and burry with proper crimp and tape
that is designed to be burried ? I thought it would be possiable to use
a butt splice on the wires if done in a way that water proofs them.

I would probably do that anyway if it was just my stuff. While not
legal, I wanted a place to plug in my 5 kw portable generator on the
outside of the house. I put in a 30 amp breaker and used # 10 wire with
2 hots, neutral and ground. That went to a box on the outside wall that
has the 'water proff' cover. I am sure it does not meet code as
probably needed to be agound fault or something.

I worked in industry with lots of 480 3 phase and other 'high power'
circuits. So I know the dangers of what I did even the use of what I
refer to as a 'double sucide cord' (the kind with males on both end).
If I was doing the work for someone else, I would make sure it was done
to the code.

In article ,
says...

You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.



So it would be ok to just splice and burry with proper crimp and tape
that is designed to be burried ? I thought it would be possiable to use
a butt splice on the wires if done in a way that water proofs them.

I would probably do that anyway if it was just my stuff. While not
legal, I wanted a place to plug in my 5 kw portable generator on the
outside of the house. I put in a 30 amp breaker and used # 10 wire with
2 hots, neutral and ground. That went to a box on the outside wall that
has the 'water proff' cover. I am sure it does not meet code as
probably needed to be agound fault or something.

I worked in industry with lots of 480 3 phase and other 'high power'
circuits. So I know the dangers of what I did even the use of what I
refer to as a 'double sucide cord' (the kind with males on both end).
If I was doing the work for someone else, I would make sure it was done
to the code.

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:15:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

I worked in industry with lots of 480 3 phase and other 'high power'
circuits. So I know the dangers of what I did even the use of what I
refer to as a 'double sucide cord' (the kind with males on both end).
If I was doing the work for someone else, I would make sure it was done
to the code.

Was it here in AHR that someone called that cord a "Jesus cord"? If not
here, I wonder where I heard that.

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 5:15:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.



So it would be ok to just splice and burry with proper crimp and tape
that is designed to be burried ? I thought it would be possiable to use
a butt splice on the wires if done in a way that water proofs them.

The proper way is with one of the connectors designed for underground
burial and those are silicone filled and no tape is required. AFAIK
there aren't any that use tape because tape isn't going to do much if
anything. I suppose if you had some special tape and it was applied
perfectly, eg by a machine in a factor, that could work. But relying
on a human to wrap it perfectly would make it not likely to have a high
success rate.







I would probably do that anyway if it was just my stuff. While not
legal, I wanted a place to plug in my 5 kw portable generator on the
outside of the house. I put in a 30 amp breaker and used # 10 wire with
2 hots, neutral and ground. That went to a box on the outside wall that
has the 'water proff' cover. I am sure it does not meet code as
probably needed to be agound fault or something.

An inlet box that has a male connector that mates with the female end
of an extension cord is rated for outdoor use and legal. Interesting
question about GFCI, I never heard about it being required or if code
says anything about it.

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 1:59:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 10:25:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Explain.
If he makes the splices compliant and puts some locknuts on the
conduits it should pass any inspection. The same guy who made up the
box in the first place could make it up right faster than arguing
about it. I have seen plenty of licensed electricians who would need a
tune up about why that box failed. That is far from a panacea.
I even know inspectors who might say "no problem" with what he has.




Would you think it would have been ok to use something like split bolts
or equivilent and covering them with something like that rubber tape you
were giving away and maybe a layer or two of Scotch 33. Then burrying
the wire.


You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.

You're not that concerned about metal screws through energized terminals
going through the box and into a wood fence?



I mentioned that splice method was troubling right away, all of it. I
doubt it rises to the level of life threatening tho. The ground
failing is more serious. If I was looking at the job I would also want
to know where the ground rod was in that shed but it appears that was
a violation before the contractor cut the wire.
Like most AHR threads, this has gone far astray of the original
question.

On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 14:21:25 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 1:59:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 10:25:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Explain.
If he makes the splices compliant and puts some locknuts on the
conduits it should pass any inspection. The same guy who made up the
box in the first place could make it up right faster than arguing
about it. I have seen plenty of licensed electricians who would need a
tune up about why that box failed. That is far from a panacea.
I even know inspectors who might say "no problem" with what he has.




Would you think it would have been ok to use something like split bolts
or equivilent and covering them with something like that rubber tape you
were giving away and maybe a layer or two of Scotch 33. Then burrying
the wire.


You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.

You're not that concerned about metal screws through energized terminals
going through the box and into a wood fence?

Things would have been even more interesting if the box was attached to a
steel pole instead of wood. :-)

No it would just be a literal "bolted fault" and trip the breaker on
the feeder. Exciting, maybe, when you reset the breaker but not that
interesting.

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:15:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.



So it would be ok to just splice and burry with proper crimp and tape
that is designed to be burried ? I thought it would be possiable to use
a butt splice on the wires if done in a way that water proofs them.

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.

I would probably do that anyway if it was just my stuff. While not
legal, I wanted a place to plug in my 5 kw portable generator on the
outside of the house. I put in a 30 amp breaker and used # 10 wire with
2 hots, neutral and ground. That went to a box on the outside wall that
has the 'water proff' cover. I am sure it does not meet code as
probably needed to be agound fault or something.

Not necessary but portable generators are coming with a GFCI these
days.
I often wonder what the fault path is if it is on rubber tires and not
connected to the house panel. Maybe they need to ground it.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/port...tor_ground.jpg

I worked in industry with lots of 480 3 phase and other 'high power'
circuits. So I know the dangers of what I did even the use of what I
refer to as a 'double sucide cord' (the kind with males on both end).
If I was doing the work for someone else, I would make sure it was done
to the code.


I see those every time we have a hurricane. People back feed the
dryer.

In article ,
says...

Not necessary but portable generators are coming with a GFCI these
days.
I often wonder what the fault path is if it is on rubber tires and not
connected to the house panel. Maybe they need to ground it.



A generator I bought about 2 years ago shows to install a ground rod at
it and has a place to hook the ground wire to the generator frame.

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 23:38:59 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Not necessary but portable generators are coming with a GFCI these
days.
I often wonder what the fault path is if it is on rubber tires and not
connected to the house panel. Maybe they need to ground it.



A generator I bought about 2 years ago shows to install a ground rod at
it and has a place to hook the ground wire to the generator frame.


It must not be listed as portable.

On 7/9/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:15:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.



So it would be ok to just splice and burry with proper crimp and tape
that is designed to be burried ? I thought it would be possiable to use
a butt splice on the wires if done in a way that water proofs them.

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.
....

I found used crimp tool with the rotating head for a wide range of sizes
on eBay for very reasonable price...don't recall just what, but about
$50 for it and an assortment of splices I seem to recall. It's been a
life-saver more than once; first when needed to get the heaters to the
cattle pens working during winter...later had a supply line fail one
side to shop. It's a buried line and the crimp has held up just fine
for about 5 years so far...

--

On 7/9/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
....

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.
....

A related sidebar Q? --

Is there anything/any way to repair knicked insulation on an underground
feeder? Or just go ahead and cut to use the splice kit?

I managed to cut insulation on one side of feed to house during the work
around the old foundation when discovered the conduit out bottom of
outside junction box wasn't nearly as deep as had presumed Dad would
have left it...and, unusual for him, there was virtually no slack in
that line to be able to really do a good job wrapping it (...both of
which make me think he must have sublet that work instead of having done
himself--just not characteristic of something he would have done on own.
He worked on remodel/refurbish of grandparents house for 5-6 years and
had to take off for real job of farming for extended periods during
summers so let out some of the work).

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good coating
of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then covered it
after dried w/ another tape wrap. We'll see how long it holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

--

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 08:28:57 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/9/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
...

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.
...

A related sidebar Q? --

Is there anything/any way to repair knicked insulation on an underground
feeder? Or just go ahead and cut to use the splice kit?

I managed to cut insulation on one side of feed to house during the work
around the old foundation when discovered the conduit out bottom of
outside junction box wasn't nearly as deep as had presumed Dad would
have left it...and, unusual for him, there was virtually no slack in
that line to be able to really do a good job wrapping it (...both of
which make me think he must have sublet that work instead of having done
himself--just not characteristic of something he would have done on own.
He worked on remodel/refurbish of grandparents house for 5-6 years and
had to take off for real job of farming for extended periods during
summers so let out some of the work).

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good coating
of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then covered it
after dried w/ another tape wrap. We'll see how long it holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

If you don't have a GFCI on the circuit you will never know. The worms
will stay away from that area tho.

On 7/10/2020 12:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 08:28:57 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/9/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
...

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.
...

A related sidebar Q? --

Is there anything/any way to repair knicked insulation on an underground
feeder? Or just go ahead and cut to use the splice kit?

I managed to cut insulation on one side of feed to house during the work
around the old foundation when discovered the conduit out bottom of
outside junction box wasn't nearly as deep as had presumed Dad would
have left it...and, unusual for him, there was virtually no slack in
that line to be able to really do a good job wrapping it (...both of
which make me think he must have sublet that work instead of having done
himself--just not characteristic of something he would have done on own.
He worked on remodel/refurbish of grandparents house for 5-6 years and
had to take off for real job of farming for extended periods during
summers so let out some of the work).

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good coating
of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then covered it
after dried w/ another tape wrap. We'll see how long it holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

If you don't have a GFCI on the circuit you will never know. The worms
will stay away from that area tho.

This is/was one of the two power feeds TO the house...but there isn't a
GFCI on the place...

--

On 7/10/2020 12:29 PM, wrote:
....

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good coating
of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then covered it
after dried w/ another tape wrap. We'll see how long it holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

If you don't have a GFCI on the circuit you will never know. The worms
will stay away from that area tho.

I was just curious if there was any product for the purpose other than
cut and splice...like a a magic shrink tube that could get in the middle
of a run...

--

On 7/10/20 8:28 AM, dpb wrote:
On 7/9/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
...

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.
...

A related sidebar Q? --

Is there anything/any way to repair knicked insulation on an underground
feeder?Â* Or just go ahead and cut to use the splice kit?

I managed to cut insulation on one side of feed to house during the work
around the old foundation when discovered the conduit out bottom of
outside junction box wasn't nearly as deep as had presumed Dad would
have left it...and, unusual for him, there was virtually no slack in
that line to be able to really do a good job wrapping it (...both of
which make me think he must have sublet that work instead of having done
himself--just not characteristic of something he would have done on own.
Â*He worked on remodel/refurbish of grandparents house for 5-6 years and
had to take off for real job of farming for extended periods during
summers so let out some of the work).

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good coating
of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then covered it
after dried w/ another tape wrap.Â* We'll see how long it holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

Would something like this have worked? Put the actual splice away
for someday and use the insulation.
https://www.amazon.com/Splice-Around-ground-Range-Length/dp/B00CTTQ1LM/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=wrap+around+splice+ki t+underground&qid=1594424194&sr=8-2#detail-bullets

On 7/10/2020 6:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 7/10/20 8:28 AM, dpb wrote:
On 7/9/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
...

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.
...

A related sidebar Q? --

Is there anything/any way to repair knicked insulation on an
underground feeder?Â* Or just go ahead and cut to use the splice kit?

I managed to cut insulation on one side of feed to house during the
work around the old foundation when discovered the conduit out bottom
of outside junction box wasn't nearly as deep as had presumed Dad
would have left it...and, unusual for him, there was virtually no
slack in that line to be able to really do a good job wrapping it
(...both of which make me think he must have sublet that work instead
of having done himself--just not characteristic of something he would
have done on own. Â*Â*He worked on remodel/refurbish of grandparents
house for 5-6 years and had to take off for real job of farming for
extended periods during summers so let out some of the work).

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good
coating of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then
covered it after dried w/ another tape wrap.Â* We'll see how long it
holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

Â*Â*Â* Would something like this have worked?Â*Â* Put the actual splice away
for someday and use the insulation.
https://www.amazon.com/Splice-Around-ground-Range-Length/dp/B00CTTQ1LM/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=wrap+around+splice+ki t+underground&qid=1594424194&sr=8-2#detail-bullets

Could have done, looks like. Hadn't seen before. Other than price.

Thanks, bookmarked for reference.

--

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:17:14 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/10/2020 12:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 08:28:57 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/9/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
...

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.
...

A related sidebar Q? --

Is there anything/any way to repair knicked insulation on an underground
feeder? Or just go ahead and cut to use the splice kit?

I managed to cut insulation on one side of feed to house during the work
around the old foundation when discovered the conduit out bottom of
outside junction box wasn't nearly as deep as had presumed Dad would
have left it...and, unusual for him, there was virtually no slack in
that line to be able to really do a good job wrapping it (...both of
which make me think he must have sublet that work instead of having done
himself--just not characteristic of something he would have done on own.
He worked on remodel/refurbish of grandparents house for 5-6 years and
had to take off for real job of farming for extended periods during
summers so let out some of the work).

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good coating
of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then covered it
after dried w/ another tape wrap. We'll see how long it holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

If you don't have a GFCI on the circuit you will never know. The worms
will stay away from that area tho.

This is/was one of the two power feeds TO the house...but there isn't a
GFCI on the place...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:21:18 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/10/2020 12:29 PM, wrote:
...

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good coating
of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then covered it
after dried w/ another tape wrap. We'll see how long it holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

If you don't have a GFCI on the circuit you will never know. The worms
will stay away from that area tho.

I was just curious if there was any product for the purpose other than
cut and splice...like a a magic shrink tube that could get in the middle
of a run...

I suppose the potting compound they use on pool lights would meet the
intent of the code.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 18:40:13 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 7/10/20 8:28 AM, dpb wrote:
On 7/9/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
...

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.
...

A related sidebar Q? --

Is there anything/any way to repair knicked insulation on an underground
feeder?Â* Or just go ahead and cut to use the splice kit?

I managed to cut insulation on one side of feed to house during the work
around the old foundation when discovered the conduit out bottom of
outside junction box wasn't nearly as deep as had presumed Dad would
have left it...and, unusual for him, there was virtually no slack in
that line to be able to really do a good job wrapping it (...both of
which make me think he must have sublet that work instead of having done
himself--just not characteristic of something he would have done on own.
Â*He worked on remodel/refurbish of grandparents house for 5-6 years and
had to take off for real job of farming for extended periods during
summers so let out some of the work).

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good coating
of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then covered it
after dried w/ another tape wrap.Â* We'll see how long it holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

Would something like this have worked? Put the actual splice away
for someday and use the insulation.
https://www.amazon.com/Splice-Around-ground-Range-Length/dp/B00CTTQ1LM/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=wrap+around+splice+ki t+underground&qid=1594424194&sr=8-2#detail-bullets

If they can show me a U/L listing mark it is OK by me. Amazon didn't
as far as I could tell.

On 7/10/2020 11:01 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:17:14 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/10/2020 12:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 08:28:57 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/9/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
...

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.
...

A related sidebar Q? --

Is there anything/any way to repair knicked insulation on an underground
feeder? Or just go ahead and cut to use the splice kit?

I managed to cut insulation on one side of feed to house during the work
around the old foundation when discovered the conduit out bottom of
outside junction box wasn't nearly as deep as had presumed Dad would
have left it...and, unusual for him, there was virtually no slack in
that line to be able to really do a good job wrapping it (...both of
which make me think he must have sublet that work instead of having done
himself--just not characteristic of something he would have done on own.
He worked on remodel/refurbish of grandparents house for 5-6 years and
had to take off for real job of farming for extended periods during
summers so let out some of the work).

I sorta' cobbled a tape job w/ some of the cold-vulcanizing tape
followed up w/ electrical tape and then covered that with a good coating
of one of the liquid rubber products as water seal -- then covered it
after dried w/ another tape wrap. We'll see how long it holds...

Was more than unhappy when discovered what had done...

If you don't have a GFCI on the circuit you will never know. The worms
will stay away from that area tho.

This is/was one of the two power feeds TO the house...but there isn't a
GFCI on the place...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.

There's no question it's mine...it's from the meter to the house; it's
at the house end. Did it while digging up an abandoned water line that
got tangled up in the augur while sinking a shoring footer under the
foundation. Turned out one of things discovered is the kitchen/sunroom
added on the house in the late 20s was just poured on the ground with
no added footing below it...also that the old water entrance went along
that wall and hadn't been removed when Dad re-did the new water service
that penetrates wall in same area just N of the electric service entrance.

It's UF direct bury, there's conduit both ends; just the conduit this
end extends only a couple inches below surface instead of several inches
to a foot that I expected...so was a little too vigorous with the shovel
the first stab or so...

--

In article ,
says...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.



Later the OP said it was between the meter and his house.

If it had been on the power company side, it would not surprise me that
if he turned it in they would not charge him for not calling the free
power line and utility locaters to have them mark the line.

I needed a few stumps ground out a few weeks ago. As it is about 200
feet from the power pole to my house and meter I called the locaters and
they marked the line. Good thing I did as the power line went directly
under a small tree ( about a foot in diameter) that the previous owner
of the house had put in. That way the grinder just took the stump to a
few inches below the ground instead of his normal distance. Probably
would not have gone down far enough to get into the power line, but no
use in taking any chances.

On 7/11/2020 8:56 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.



Later the OP said it was between the meter and his house.

If it had been on the power company side, it would not surprise me that
if he turned it in they would not charge him for not calling the free
power line and utility locaters to have them mark the line.

....

All the utility (our local rural electric co-op) lines are above ground,
hard to miss them.

I did before we started the remodel hire a local to come out and stake
out the actual locations where Dad pulled the new feeds back when he
redid the house (late 70s/early 80s) as I was in VA at that time and
while I knew roughly where they went, the exact location and which way
he chose to run the feeds to various locations from the pole I did not
know exactly. So, I knew where all were between pole and house, shop
car garage and outside service to the old septic overflow tank pump...

What I did was based on an assumption that the conduit would extend at
least 8" or more below grade where it came out of the box...I knew/could
see/was working right at that location, I just made the erroneous
assumption I didn't have to worry until at least several inches further
down than where the conduit actually ended.

--

On 7/10/2020 11:01 PM, wrote:
....

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.

Huh. Thought that was the whole point of there being UF-rated cable.

I have no idea what our local rural electric co-op specifies now, I'm
sure it's probably much more stringent than was 40+ years ago when Dad
was redoing the house and pulled the new feed underground and removed
the overhead wire to the house...

--

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:56:59 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

Later the OP said it was between the meter and his house.

If it had been on the power company side, it would not surprise me that
if he turned it in they would not charge him for not calling the free
power line and utility locaters to have them mark the line.

The FPL policy is that the meter is on your house, not at the hand
hole in the right of way and that you own the service lateral. They
will sell you insurance but otherwise fixing it is on your dime, even
if they do it.

On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 20:15:26 -0400, posted
for all of us to digest...


On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:15:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.



So it would be ok to just splice and burry with proper crimp and tape
that is designed to be burried ? I thought it would be possiable to use
a butt splice on the wires if done in a way that water proofs them.

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.

I would probably do that anyway if it was just my stuff. While not
legal, I wanted a place to plug in my 5 kw portable generator on the
outside of the house. I put in a 30 amp breaker and used # 10 wire with
2 hots, neutral and ground. That went to a box on the outside wall that
has the 'water proff' cover. I am sure it does not meet code as
probably needed to be agound fault or something.

Not necessary but portable generators are coming with a GFCI these
days.
I often wonder what the fault path is if it is on rubber tires and not
connected to the house panel. Maybe they need to ground it.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/port...tor_ground.jpg

I worked in industry with lots of 480 3 phase and other 'high power'
circuits. So I know the dangers of what I did even the use of what I
refer to as a 'double sucide cord' (the kind with males on both end).
If I was doing the work for someone else, I would make sure it was done
to the code.


I see those every time we have a hurricane. People back feed the
dryer.

For the rest of the posters, look for a U tube poster named
Benjamin Salstrom (sp) One of his latest videos is of a
generator with a floating ground vs a bonded ground. He also
does some interesting experiments that I would not try.

Another video is why a seperate ground rod will not blow the
breaker. He uses hot dogs instead of humans. Draw your own
conclusions.

There are also vids on U tube by power companies and why they
emphasize to leave their downed lines alone. They also use hot
dogs. IIRC Pepco was the best but I'm not sure anymore.

--
Tekkie

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:54:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/10/2020 11:01 PM, wrote:
...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.

Huh. Thought that was the whole point of there being UF-rated cable.

I have no idea what our local rural electric co-op specifies now, I'm
sure it's probably much more stringent than was 40+ years ago when Dad
was redoing the house and pulled the new feed underground and removed
the overhead wire to the house...

They want conduit, just for the extra protection.

Just a note, that is not UF. It is probably USE but I don't want to be
pedantic ;-)

One thing that makes them different is you can use UF inside, USE, not
so much. It is a smoke and product of combustion thing with that
insulation but it does perform better underground than UF.
I am not sure I have ever even seen service conductors direct buried.
It always seems to be in some kind of raceway.

Most of our older homes are served with overhead drops but newer
houses, particularly in HOA type places have all buried
infrastructure. There are no poles anywhere except light standards.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:15:56 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:


On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 20:15:26 -0400, posted
for all of us to digest...


On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:15:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

You were OK until you said "bury". That tape is not a listed direct
burial method. There are direct burial splices tho, crimped and full
of silicone. Most people do not have the required crimping tool tho.
This isn't a "squeeze it with pliers" thing.

The method the OP's guy used is OK, he just needs better splices.

The practical part of me says it will "work" forever the way it is, it
is just not legal. If I did nothing else, I would screw a red wirenut
down on those twisted #10 grounds.



So it would be ok to just splice and burry with proper crimp and tape
that is designed to be burried ? I thought it would be possiable to use
a butt splice on the wires if done in a way that water proofs them.

The crimps you see on submersible well conductors would be fine. It is
an irreversible crimp with silicone in the shrink tube insulation. The
problem is you need the right tool to make the crimp and the one for
6ga wire is probably $100. I did see a guy who went to work on a 36"
Harbor Fright bolt cutter with a grinder to make a big crimper. It
seemed to work OK.

I would probably do that anyway if it was just my stuff. While not
legal, I wanted a place to plug in my 5 kw portable generator on the
outside of the house. I put in a 30 amp breaker and used # 10 wire with
2 hots, neutral and ground. That went to a box on the outside wall that
has the 'water proff' cover. I am sure it does not meet code as
probably needed to be agound fault or something.

Not necessary but portable generators are coming with a GFCI these
days.
I often wonder what the fault path is if it is on rubber tires and not
connected to the house panel. Maybe they need to ground it.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/port...tor_ground.jpg

I worked in industry with lots of 480 3 phase and other 'high power'
circuits. So I know the dangers of what I did even the use of what I
refer to as a 'double sucide cord' (the kind with males on both end).
If I was doing the work for someone else, I would make sure it was done
to the code.


I see those every time we have a hurricane. People back feed the
dryer.

For the rest of the posters, look for a U tube poster named
Benjamin Salstrom (sp) One of his latest videos is of a
generator with a floating ground vs a bonded ground. He also
does some interesting experiments that I would not try.

Another video is why a seperate ground rod will not blow the
breaker. He uses hot dogs instead of humans. Draw your own
conclusions.

There are also vids on U tube by power companies and why they
emphasize to leave their downed lines alone. They also use hot
dogs. IIRC Pepco was the best but I'm not sure anymore.

I've seen some of Salstrom's videos. He does very neat work. In one video,
his sister was singing in the next room and she came over to where he was
working to apologize for messing up his video. She's a cutie.

On 7/11/2020 10:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:54:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/10/2020 11:01 PM, wrote:
...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.

Huh. Thought that was the whole point of there being UF-rated cable.

I have no idea what our local rural electric co-op specifies now, I'm
sure it's probably much more stringent than was 40+ years ago when Dad
was redoing the house and pulled the new feed underground and removed
the overhead wire to the house...

They want conduit, just for the extra protection.

Just a note, that is not UF. It is probably USE but I don't want to be
pedantic ;-)

One thing that makes them different is you can use UF inside, USE, not
so much. It is a smoke and product of combustion thing with that
insulation but it does perform better underground than UF.
I am not sure I have ever even seen service conductors direct buried.
It always seems to be in some kind of raceway.
....

It's UF-B I'm virtually positive...altho I didn't climb the loft to go
look at the jacket on the leftover roll end.

Would be a pretty long conduit run for what would be remote chance of
doing anything to the buried section; it's at least 24" (I know cuz had
to dig up the one failure in the shop supply line that's parallel in
same trench has house that far before they split).

The only reason hit this is the conduit from the box is, imo, way too
short which is why I'm convinced Dad didn't do it...everywhere else on
the place the conduit extends down to almost the bottom of the trench or
may even have an elbow at the bottom to make the transition...so that's
what I was expecting.

--

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 11:21:23 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/11/2020 10:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:54:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/10/2020 11:01 PM, wrote:
...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.

Huh. Thought that was the whole point of there being UF-rated cable.

I have no idea what our local rural electric co-op specifies now, I'm
sure it's probably much more stringent than was 40+ years ago when Dad
was redoing the house and pulled the new feed underground and removed
the overhead wire to the house...

They want conduit, just for the extra protection.

Just a note, that is not UF. It is probably USE but I don't want to be
pedantic ;-)

One thing that makes them different is you can use UF inside, USE, not
so much. It is a smoke and product of combustion thing with that
insulation but it does perform better underground than UF.
I am not sure I have ever even seen service conductors direct buried.
It always seems to be in some kind of raceway.
...

It's UF-B I'm virtually positive...altho I didn't climb the loft to go
look at the jacket on the leftover roll end.


I am surprised the PoCo connected to it.

340.12 Uses Not Permitted. Type UF cable shall not be used
as follows:
(1) As service-entrance cable




Would be a pretty long conduit run for what would be remote chance of
doing anything to the buried section; it's at least 24" (I know cuz had
to dig up the one failure in the shop supply line that's parallel in
same trench has house that far before they split).

The only reason hit this is the conduit from the box is, imo, way too
short which is why I'm convinced Dad didn't do it...everywhere else on
the place the conduit extends down to almost the bottom of the trench or
may even have an elbow at the bottom to make the transition...so that's
what I was expecting.

We did 150' for a golf bathroom at my wife's club

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 11:13:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:54:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/10/2020 11:01 PM, wrote:
...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.

Huh. Thought that was the whole point of there being UF-rated cable.

I have no idea what our local rural electric co-op specifies now, I'm
sure it's probably much more stringent than was 40+ years ago when Dad
was redoing the house and pulled the new feed underground and removed
the overhead wire to the house...

They want conduit, just for the extra protection.


The service isn't fused at the xformer either, is it?

On 7/12/2020 1:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 11:21:23 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/11/2020 10:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:54:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/10/2020 11:01 PM, wrote:
...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.

Huh. Thought that was the whole point of there being UF-rated cable.

I have no idea what our local rural electric co-op specifies now, I'm
sure it's probably much more stringent than was 40+ years ago when Dad
was redoing the house and pulled the new feed underground and removed
the overhead wire to the house...

They want conduit, just for the extra protection.

Just a note, that is not UF. It is probably USE but I don't want to be
pedantic ;-)

One thing that makes them different is you can use UF inside, USE, not
so much. It is a smoke and product of combustion thing with that
insulation but it does perform better underground than UF.
I am not sure I have ever even seen service conductors direct buried.
It always seems to be in some kind of raceway.
...

It's UF-B I'm virtually positive...altho I didn't climb the loft to go
look at the jacket on the leftover roll end.


I am surprised the PoCo connected to it.

340.12 Uses Not Permitted. Type UF cable shall not be used
as follows:
(1) As service-entrance cable


Huh. I thought that was what "feeder" meant.

I'll have to see if I can tell for sure now out of curiosity--maybe I'm
wrong and it was/is USE.

As far as the co-op, they had nothing to do with it -- Dad (or a
contractor, I'm not sure since I wasn't here) did everything on the
house side of the meter...the service has been here since '48 altho I
think I recall they put in a new transformer when we built the feedlots
and added the feed mill in the back of the barn and added the new silo
with its unloader in the '58-59 era...that's when the "new" overhead
feeds to the barn, silo and grain elevator across the driveway were
installed.

Was going to say the house was still on the overhead feed, but it's
possible on thinking about it that that is when this feed was run, too;
I can't think of specific pictures of that era that do show the overhead
run to the house any longer...

It was originally wired for the Delco 32V DC windcharger system when
built in '15/'16. Got REA hookup in '48. Dad gutted the house to
exterior wall studs and rewired completely in late 70s/early 80s. I had
been thinking that is when the underground feed went in, but I'm now
thinking that wasn't so but was about 20 year prior.

Would be a pretty long conduit run for what would be remote chance of
doing anything to the buried section; it's at least 24" (I know cuz had
to dig up the one failure in the shop supply line that's parallel in
same trench has house that far before they split).

The only reason hit this is the conduit from the box is, imo, way too
short which is why I'm convinced Dad didn't do it...everywhere else on
the place the conduit extends down to almost the bottom of the trench or
may even have an elbow at the bottom to make the transition...so that's
what I was expecting.

We did 150' for a golf bathroom at my wife's club

Think this would be double that anyway (altho I haven't actually stepped
it off, there's a sizable chunk of yard out that way as is in all
directions. Of course, when there's about 30A out of the quarter for
the farmstead, wasn't much point in cramping things...

The windcharger tower sat pretty close to the house so it wouldn't have
been too bad...Dad took it and the old windmill tower down while doing
the rest of the cleanup around the place after sold our little house I
grew up in when finished and moved into the big house. It was then
moved to town...it's third site; it was moved from west of town when US
Army Air Corps built the B25 training airbase during war...

Anyway, am diverging far too far...

I do have to admit I wasn't aware there was a difference between a
"feeder" and a "service entrance" cable...so learned something new to me.

So, inquiring minds and all that -- "why and what's the real difference
between the two?"

--

On 7/12/2020 1:31 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 11:13:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:54:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/10/2020 11:01 PM, wrote:
...

If it is on the line side of the meter, I suppose it is between the
PoCo and the worms, although you probably do own that service lateral.
FPL wants them in conduit.

Huh. Thought that was the whole point of there being UF-rated cable.

I have no idea what our local rural electric co-op specifies now, I'm
sure it's probably much more stringent than was 40+ years ago when Dad
was redoing the house and pulled the new feed underground and removed
the overhead wire to the house...

They want conduit, just for the extra protection.


The service isn't fused at the xformer either, is it?

Fused? No.

Breaker. Yes.

--