On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 8:44:07 AM UTC-4, Cgray1521 wrote:
replying to Jon, Cgray1521 wrote:
Im trying to get my grandparents yard boss running but having the same
issue. Hard to pull at first, feels like because of compression, then releases
and spins over. Ive torn everything down twice. This last time I noticed
the gap on the spark plug was closed. So I looked at the piston and it has a
slight surface rust mark that matches the shape of the bottom of the side
electrode on the spark plug.
So I feel the piston is just slightly hitting the spark plug. Thought maybe
someone over tighten the spark plugs so I bought a new one. But the new does
the same thing. If I install the spark plug by hand as thought as I can it
will run fine. But if I put a wrench on it and tighten it literally a hair
more it locks up. DONT GET IT!

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-824350-.htm


I know this thread is old.
Did anyone ever find a solution?
I have older 025c, which is rarely used (but I run it dry when I do use it).
I can barely pull the starter cord. If I remove the spark plug, can pull with one finger. Removing the muffler does not help. Removing the chain/bar did not help.
No obvious scars on the piston/rings.
I put a some oil on the piston/rings, no difference.
I'm at a loss.

In article ,
says...

I know this thread is old.
Did anyone ever find a solution?
I have older 025c, which is rarely used (but I run it dry when I do use it).
I can barely pull the starter cord. If I remove the spark plug, can pull with one finger. Removing the muffler does not help. Removing the chain/bar did not help.
No obvious scars on the piston/rings.
I put a some oil on the piston/rings, no difference.
I'm at a loss.



I never run a 2 cycle engine empty. The gas has the oil in it to
lubercate the internal parts. I do use the unleaded gas and most of the
time add the Sta-bil to it just to be sure.

I do run my 4 cycle engines dry as the oil is in the crank case and the
gas can get into it over a long period of time. I hae a tiller that is
arund 10 years old and only use it for about a week in the spring. It
sits for 11 months and will start on the 1st or 2nd pull. Same with a 5
kw generator.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 8:44:07 AM UTC-4, Cgray1521 wrote:
replying to Jon, Cgray1521 wrote:
I’m trying to get my grandparents yard boss running but having the same
issue. Hard to pull at first, feels like because of compression, then releases
and spins over. I’ve torn everything down twice. This last time I noticed
the gap on the spark plug was closed. So I looked at the piston and it has a
slight surface rust mark that matches the shape of the bottom of the side
electrode on the spark plug.
So I feel the piston is just slightly hitting the spark plug. Thought maybe
someone over tighten the spark plugs so I bought a new one. But the new does
the same thing. If I install the spark plug by hand as thought as I can it
will run fine. But if I put a wrench on it and tighten it literally a hair
more it locks up. DONT GET IT!

If the spark plug is hitting the top of the piston, the most likely culprit
is the wrong spark plug is installed. A "hot" plug will usually have a
longer nose, which could then make contact with the top of the piston if
the engine isn't designed for it. The solution then is simple: swap the hot
plug for a colder plug. Every spark plug carries a heat range, so look for
a plug that's colder than what you have. Preferably, look for the actual
plug recommended for that engine.

Some info about plug heat ranges:
https://www.ngkntk.in/hot-spark-plug...d-spark-plugs/




--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-824350-.htm


I know this thread is old.
Did anyone ever find a solution?
I have older 025c, which is rarely used (but I run it dry when I do use it).
I can barely pull the starter cord. If I remove the spark plug, can pull with one finger. Removing the muffler does not help. Removing the chain/bar did not help.
No obvious scars on the piston/rings.
I put a some oil on the piston/rings, no difference.
I'm at a loss.

If removing the spark plug allows it to easily spin over and it's not a
physical interference between the plug and the top of the piston, then I
would assume it's a high compression issue. So what would cause that? Well,
for example, something being lodged in the combustion chamber that doesn't
belong there, such as extensive carbon build-up or even a foreign object
that might have come through the intake port. Can you remove the cylinder
head and take a look?

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 1:50:42 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I know this thread is old.
Did anyone ever find a solution?
I have older 025c, which is rarely used (but I run it dry when I do use it).
I can barely pull the starter cord. If I remove the spark plug, can pull with one finger. Removing the muffler does not help. Removing the chain/bar did not help.
No obvious scars on the piston/rings.
I put some oil on the piston/rings, no difference.
I'm at a loss.



I never run a 2 cycle engine empty. The gas has the oil in it to
lubercate the internal parts. I do use the unleaded gas and most of the
time add the Sta-bil to it just to be sure.

I do run my 4 cycle engines dry as the oil is in the crank case and the
gas can get into it over a long period of time. I hae a tiller that is
arund 10 years old and only use it for about a week in the spring. It
sits for 11 months and will start on the 1st or 2nd pull. Same with a 5
kw generator.

Understood about using Sta-bil, etc.
In my case, I can go years between uses. I'm not sure Sta-bil ideal for that long a period of inactivity.
That would not explain why I can easily pull cord, with plug removed.
It worked fine when I last used it, couple yrs ago.

In article ,
says...

Understood about using Sta-bil, etc.
In my case, I can go years between uses. I'm not sure Sta-bil ideal for that long a period of inactivity.
That would not explain why I can easily pull cord, with plug removed.
It worked fine when I last used it, couple yrs ago.



I have not looked into the insides of the small engines. Does that one
have any valves that open and close ? Maybe even some reed types ?
They may be stuck or broken.

I doubt the Sta-bil would be good for years. In that case it probably
is ok to let the engine run dry and just take the hit on no lubercation.

I bolught one of the roughly $ 100 700 watt generators from HF that is 2
cycle. I seldom use it, but do start it up every couple of months and
run it for a while. Then put in a fresh batch of the alcohol free
gas/oil and Sta-bil. I think some of the oil has some properties of the
Sta-bil. Let that run for a short period of time. Found it hard to
start even when new,so give it a shot of starting fluid and it cranks
right up.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:03:56 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 8:44:07 AM UTC-4, Cgray1521 wrote:
replying to Jon, Cgray1521 wrote:
I’m trying to get my grandparents yard boss running but having the same
issue. Hard to pull at first, feels like because of compression, then releases
and spins over. I’ve torn everything down twice. This last time I noticed
the gap on the spark plug was closed. So I looked at the piston and it has a
slight surface rust mark that matches the shape of the bottom of the side
electrode on the spark plug.
So I feel the piston is just slightly hitting the spark plug. Thought maybe
someone over tighten the spark plugs so I bought a new one. But the new does
the same thing. If I install the spark plug by hand as thought as I can it
will run fine. But if I put a wrench on it and tighten it literally a hair
more it locks up. DONT GET IT!

If the spark plug is hitting the top of the piston, the most likely culprit
is the wrong spark plug is installed. A "hot" plug will usually have a
longer nose, which could then make contact with the top of the piston if
the engine isn't designed for it. The solution then is simple: swap the hot
plug for a colder plug. Every spark plug carries a heat range, so look for
a plug that's colder than what you have. Preferably, look for the actual
plug recommended for that engine.


Actually, a hotter plug virtually NEVER has a longer "nose". The
insulator is just longer and slimmer back into the body. Extended tip
plugs are designed to run COLDER under higher speeds and hotter at
low speeds and loads by virtue of getting the tip "out there" into the
active flow.They are not only "extended tip" but "extended range"
plugs. (I've been a mechanic since 1969 and taught the trade as well)
Some info about plug heat ranges:
https://www.ngkntk.in/hot-spark-plug...d-spark-plugs/




--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-824350-.htm


I know this thread is old.
Did anyone ever find a solution?
I have older 025c, which is rarely used (but I run it dry when I do use it).
I can barely pull the starter cord. If I remove the spark plug, can pull with one finger. Removing the muffler does not help. Removing the chain/bar did not help.
No obvious scars on the piston/rings.
I put a some oil on the piston/rings, no difference.
I'm at a loss.

If removing the spark plug allows it to easily spin over and it's not a
physical interference between the plug and the top of the piston, then I
would assume it's a high compression issue. So what would cause that? Well,
for example, something being lodged in the combustion chamber that doesn't
belong there, such as extensive carbon build-up or even a foreign object
that might have come through the intake port. Can you remove the cylinder
head and take a look?

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 11:17:26 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 1:50:42 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I know this thread is old.
Did anyone ever find a solution?
I have older 025c, which is rarely used (but I run it dry when I do use it).
I can barely pull the starter cord. If I remove the spark plug, can pull with one finger. Removing the muffler does not help. Removing the chain/bar did not help.
No obvious scars on the piston/rings.
I put some oil on the piston/rings, no difference.
I'm at a loss.



I never run a 2 cycle engine empty. The gas has the oil in it to
lubercate the internal parts. I do use the unleaded gas and most of the
time add the Sta-bil to it just to be sure.

I do run my 4 cycle engines dry as the oil is in the crank case and the
gas can get into it over a long period of time. I hae a tiller that is
arund 10 years old and only use it for about a week in the spring. It
sits for 11 months and will start on the 1st or 2nd pull. Same with a 5
kw generator.

Understood about using Sta-bil, etc.
In my case, I can go years between uses. I'm not sure Sta-bil ideal for that long a period of inactivity.
That would not explain why I can easily pull cord, with plug removed.
It worked fine when I last used it, couple yrs ago.
Maybe you are just getting old and feeble??
I have a little remington that is that way - as I've stated here
before. Will almost tear your arm off if your hand is strong enough to
not let go of the rope but once it starts it is a little BEAST!!!
Compared to it the larger Partner saw is a breeze to start but the
little fellow will give the big one a REAL run for the money - -

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 15:06:44 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Understood about using Sta-bil, etc.
In my case, I can go years between uses. I'm not sure Sta-bil ideal for that long a period of inactivity.
That would not explain why I can easily pull cord, with plug removed.
It worked fine when I last used it, couple yrs ago.



I have not looked into the insides of the small engines. Does that one
have any valves that open and close ? Maybe even some reed types ?
They may be stuck or broken.

I doubt the Sta-bil would be good for years. In that case it probably
is ok to let the engine run dry and just take the hit on no lubercation.

Since the saw has a SEALED tank the fuel in the tank won't oxidize or
go rancid like it will in a lawnmower. I use SeaFoam in my saw gas and
the last time I used the Remington it had sat for over 2 years with a
FULL tank of Shell premium with 40:1 "smokeless" (yeah, right!!) semi
synthetic two stroke oil and it started on about the 5th pull. Just
remember to shake the saw a few times to make sure the oil has not
stratified in the fuel. The Partner took a whiff of starting fluid to
get it to kick, but then it ran fine. Haven't used either one for
about 5 years - maybe I should crank them up and see if they still run
in case a windstorm takes down more branches -- - - -

I bolught one of the roughly $ 100 700 watt generators from HF that is 2
cycle. I seldom use it, but do start it up every couple of months and
run it for a while. Then put in a fresh batch of the alcohol free
gas/oil and Sta-bil. I think some of the oil has some properties of the
Sta-bil. Let that run for a short period of time. Found it hard to
start even when new,so give it a shot of starting fluid and it cranks
right up.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 15:46:01 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:03:56 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 8:44:07 AM UTC-4, Cgray1521 wrote:
replying to Jon, Cgray1521 wrote:
I’m trying to get my grandparents yard boss running but having the same
issue. Hard to pull at first, feels like because of compression, then releases
and spins over. I’ve torn everything down twice. This last time I noticed
the gap on the spark plug was closed. So I looked at the piston and it has a
slight surface rust mark that matches the shape of the bottom of the side
electrode on the spark plug.
So I feel the piston is just slightly hitting the spark plug. Thought maybe
someone over tighten the spark plugs so I bought a new one. But the new does
the same thing. If I install the spark plug by hand as thought as I can it
will run fine. But if I put a wrench on it and tighten it literally a hair
more it locks up. DONT GET IT!

If the spark plug is hitting the top of the piston, the most likely culprit
is the wrong spark plug is installed. A "hot" plug will usually have a
longer nose, which could then make contact with the top of the piston if
the engine isn't designed for it. The solution then is simple: swap the hot
plug for a colder plug. Every spark plug carries a heat range, so look for
a plug that's colder than what you have. Preferably, look for the actual
plug recommended for that engine.


Actually, a hotter plug virtually NEVER has a longer "nose". The
insulator is just longer and slimmer back into the body. Extended tip
plugs are designed to run COLDER under higher speeds and hotter at
low speeds and loads by virtue of getting the tip "out there" into the
active flow.They are not only "extended tip" but "extended range"
plugs. (I've been a mechanic since 1969 and taught the trade as well)

Yeah, I could have it wrong. I thought I knew about it from some limited
experience back in the 80's but it probably faded since then. I was also
relying a bit on this little table from the link I included.


Difference between Hot Plugs and Cold Plugs

Hot Plugs
Have a long Insulator nose.
A great surface area exposed to the hot combustion gases.
Heat transfer to the engine head is slower.
Its firing end heats up quickly.

Cold plugs
Have a short Insulator nose.
A less surface area exposed to the hot combustion gases.
Heat transfer to the engine head is quicker.
Its firing end does not heat up quickly.





Some info about plug heat ranges:
https://www.ngkntk.in/hot-spark-plug...d-spark-plugs/

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 14:58:05 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 15:46:01 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:03:56 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 8:44:07 AM UTC-4, Cgray1521 wrote:
replying to Jon, Cgray1521 wrote:
I’m trying to get my grandparents yard boss running but having the same
issue. Hard to pull at first, feels like because of compression, then releases
and spins over. I’ve torn everything down twice. This last time I noticed
the gap on the spark plug was closed. So I looked at the piston and it has a
slight surface rust mark that matches the shape of the bottom of the side
electrode on the spark plug.
So I feel the piston is just slightly hitting the spark plug. Thought maybe
someone over tighten the spark plugs so I bought a new one. But the new does
the same thing. If I install the spark plug by hand as thought as I can it
will run fine. But if I put a wrench on it and tighten it literally a hair
more it locks up. DONT GET IT!

If the spark plug is hitting the top of the piston, the most likely culprit
is the wrong spark plug is installed. A "hot" plug will usually have a
longer nose, which could then make contact with the top of the piston if
the engine isn't designed for it. The solution then is simple: swap the hot
plug for a colder plug. Every spark plug carries a heat range, so look for
a plug that's colder than what you have. Preferably, look for the actual
plug recommended for that engine.


Actually, a hotter plug virtually NEVER has a longer "nose". The
insulator is just longer and slimmer back into the body. Extended tip
plugs are designed to run COLDER under higher speeds and hotter at
low speeds and loads by virtue of getting the tip "out there" into the
active flow.They are not only "extended tip" but "extended range"
plugs. (I've been a mechanic since 1969 and taught the trade as well)

Yeah, I could have it wrong. I thought I knew about it from some limited
experience back in the 80's but it probably faded since then. I was also
relying a bit on this little table from the link I included.


Difference between Hot Plugs and Cold Plugs

Hot Plugs
Have a long Insulator nose.
A great surface area exposed to the hot combustion gases.
Heat transfer to the engine head is slower.
Its firing end heats up quickly.

Cold plugs
Have a short Insulator nose.
A less surface area exposed to the hot combustion gases.
Heat transfer to the engine head is quicker.
Its firing end does not heat up quickly.





Some info about plug heat ranges:
https://www.ngkntk.in/hot-spark-plug...d-spark-plugs/
I missed the bit about locking with the last 1/2 turn.
He has the wrong thread reach plug. I am betting he has a 1/2" reach
plug and it requies a 3/8" reach. In Champion that would be an L seies
where he needs a J - in NGK it would be an H uffix instead of an N
that it should have.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 21:28:19 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 14:58:05 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 15:46:01 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:03:56 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 8:44:07 AM UTC-4, Cgray1521 wrote:
replying to Jon, Cgray1521 wrote:
I’m trying to get my grandparents yard boss running but having the same
issue. Hard to pull at first, feels like because of compression, then releases
and spins over. I’ve torn everything down twice. This last time I noticed
the gap on the spark plug was closed. So I looked at the piston and it has a
slight surface rust mark that matches the shape of the bottom of the side
electrode on the spark plug.
So I feel the piston is just slightly hitting the spark plug. Thought maybe
someone over tighten the spark plugs so I bought a new one. But the new does
the same thing. If I install the spark plug by hand as thought as I can it
will run fine. But if I put a wrench on it and tighten it literally a hair
more it locks up. DONT GET IT!

If the spark plug is hitting the top of the piston, the most likely culprit
is the wrong spark plug is installed. A "hot" plug will usually have a
longer nose, which could then make contact with the top of the piston if
the engine isn't designed for it. The solution then is simple: swap the hot
plug for a colder plug. Every spark plug carries a heat range, so look for
a plug that's colder than what you have. Preferably, look for the actual
plug recommended for that engine.


Actually, a hotter plug virtually NEVER has a longer "nose". The
insulator is just longer and slimmer back into the body. Extended tip
plugs are designed to run COLDER under higher speeds and hotter at
low speeds and loads by virtue of getting the tip "out there" into the
active flow.They are not only "extended tip" but "extended range"
plugs. (I've been a mechanic since 1969 and taught the trade as well)

Yeah, I could have it wrong. I thought I knew about it from some limited
experience back in the 80's but it probably faded since then. I was also
relying a bit on this little table from the link I included.


Difference between Hot Plugs and Cold Plugs

Hot Plugs
Have a long Insulator nose.
A great surface area exposed to the hot combustion gases.
Heat transfer to the engine head is slower.
Its firing end heats up quickly.

Cold plugs
Have a short Insulator nose.
A less surface area exposed to the hot combustion gases.
Heat transfer to the engine head is quicker.
Its firing end does not heat up quickly.





Some info about plug heat ranges:
https://www.ngkntk.in/hot-spark-plug...d-spark-plugs/
I missed the bit about locking with the last 1/2 turn.
He has the wrong thread reach plug. I am betting he has a 1/2" reach
plug and it requies a 3/8" reach. In Champion that would be an L seies
where he needs a J - in NGK it would be an H uffix instead of an N
that it should have.

That 1/8" difference should be all it takes to keep the plug from hitting
the piston.

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 3:50:13 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 11:17:26 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 1:50:42 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I know this thread is old.
Did anyone ever find a solution?
I have older 025c, which is rarely used (but I run it dry when I do use it).
I can barely pull the starter cord. If I remove the spark plug, can pull with one finger. Removing the muffler does not help. Removing the chain/bar did not help.
No obvious scars on the piston/rings.
I put some oil on the piston/rings, no difference.
I'm at a loss.



I never run a 2 cycle engine empty. The gas has the oil in it to
lubercate the internal parts. I do use the unleaded gas and most of the
time add the Sta-bil to it just to be sure.

I do run my 4 cycle engines dry as the oil is in the crank case and the
gas can get into it over a long period of time. I hae a tiller that is
arund 10 years old and only use it for about a week in the spring. It
sits for 11 months and will start on the 1st or 2nd pull. Same with a 5
kw generator.

Understood about using Sta-bil, etc.
In my case, I can go years between uses. I'm not sure Sta-bil ideal for that long a period of inactivity.
That would not explain why I can easily pull cord, with plug removed.
It worked fine when I last used it, couple yrs ago.
Maybe you are just getting old and feeble??
I have a little remington that is that way - as I've stated here
before. Will almost tear your arm off if your hand is strong enough to
not let go of the rope but once it starts it is a little BEAST!!!
Compared to it the larger Partner saw is a breeze to start but the
little fellow will give the big one a REAL run for the money - -
..
I'm definitely older, but hopefully not that feeble
I forgot to mention, I'm the original owner, and the spark plug is original.
Original spark plug could be factor in running the engine, but I'm not getting that far.

On 6/21/2020 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 3:50:13 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 11:17:26 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 1:50:42 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I know this thread is old.
Did anyone ever find a solution?
I have older 025c, which is rarely used (but I run it dry when I do use it).
I can barely pull the starter cord. If I remove the spark plug, can pull with one finger. Removing the muffler does not help. Removing the chain/bar did not help.
No obvious scars on the piston/rings.
I put some oil on the piston/rings, no difference.
I'm at a loss.



I never run a 2 cycle engine empty. The gas has the oil in it to
lubercate the internal parts. I do use the unleaded gas and most of the
time add the Sta-bil to it just to be sure.

I do run my 4 cycle engines dry as the oil is in the crank case and the
gas can get into it over a long period of time. I hae a tiller that is
arund 10 years old and only use it for about a week in the spring. It
sits for 11 months and will start on the 1st or 2nd pull. Same with a 5
kw generator.

Understood about using Sta-bil, etc.
In my case, I can go years between uses. I'm not sure Sta-bil ideal for that long a period of inactivity.
That would not explain why I can easily pull cord, with plug removed.
It worked fine when I last used it, couple yrs ago.
Maybe you are just getting old and feeble??
I have a little remington that is that way - as I've stated here
before. Will almost tear your arm off if your hand is strong enough to
not let go of the rope but once it starts it is a little BEAST!!!
Compared to it the larger Partner saw is a breeze to start but the
little fellow will give the big one a REAL run for the money - -
.
I'm definitely older, but hopefully not that feeble
I forgot to mention, I'm the original owner, and the spark plug is original.
Original spark plug could be factor in running the engine, but I'm not getting that far.


Could this saw have a (non-working) compression release?

I have a 25 year old Husqvarna that I have used heavily over those years. Last year it got extremely hard to pull. So I put it aside until June of this year.

I decided that on top of everything else I probably had a galled cylinder/piston situation. It turned out that piston and cylinder looked great.

BUT . . . what I did discover is that from where the carb attaches to the cylinder there is a port that runs inside the wall of the cylinder to its base, apparently to bring lubrication to the crankcase and ventilate the crankcase on the down stroke. I could see that lack of ventilation would make the saw extremely hard to pull.

SO . . . I first blew air through the port. No problem. No blockage. Then I examined the gasket and mating surface on the crankcase fully expecting to find a passage through the gasket and mating surface into the base. THERE WASNT ANY!

WHAT I DISCOVERED is that all venting of that port through the cylinder relies on an extremely thin gap/channel between the gasket and cylinder base. It looked to me like that gap is no more than .020€� wide.

NO MATTER. It was absolutely packed tight with carbon. So, I picked it clean with a dental pick. AND GUESS WHAT?

THE REASSEMBLED MOTOR PULLS EASY AND RUNS LIKE THE DAY I BOUGHT IT.

Now I am having the same issue with a month old Stihl MS171. Have loved that saw up to this point. Took off the carb earlier this week and you guessed it there is a similar port going from where the carb mounts down into the cylinder wall. I am guessing its for crankcase ventilation again. I havent had time to complete the investigation but obviously suspect it is the cause of the near identical symptoms.