10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property. The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed. I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level. The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel. At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it. I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope. I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers. Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and
snooping with the other end. Nope! I don't have a metal detector.
Not sure where to go from here. Any great ideas out there?

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:45:35 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property. The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed. I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level. The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel. At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it. I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope. I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers. Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and
snooping with the other end. Nope! I don't have a metal detector.
Not sure where to go from here. Any great ideas out there?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing

I've seen the 2 L-shaped metal rods used to locate
underground electrical cable .. to my astonishment.
John T.

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:45:35 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property. The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed. I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level. The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel. At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it. I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope. I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers. Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and
snooping with the other end. Nope! I don't have a metal detector.
Not sure where to go from here. Any great ideas out there?

How far do you remember it being from the lamp post?. It might be
easiest to dig up the wire and follow it to the box if you think it is
pretty close. The downside is you might damage the wire but if you
have it dug up anyway, it is just a piece of UF you have to replace
along with whatever you are planning to do. I doubt a metal detector
would help much if this is a plastic box. It might see the copper wire
but maybe not. This is supposed to be 24" down if it is not on a GFCI.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:45:35 -0400, Todesco

wrote:

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my
property. The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet)
from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed. I
put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.
The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the
house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel. At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the
post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the years, the
outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it. I've tried raking up the
leaf mulch.
Nope. I've also tried one of the non touch voltage
testers. Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power
line and
snooping with the other end. Nope! I don't have a metal
detector.
Not sure where to go from here. Any great ideas out
there?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing

I've seen the 2 L-shaped metal rods used to locate
underground electrical cable .. to my astonishment.
John T.

That works! I've done it.... phil

On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 2:51:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:45:35 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property. The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed. I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level. The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel. At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it. I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope. I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers. Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and
snooping with the other end. Nope! I don't have a metal detector.
Not sure where to go from here. Any great ideas out there?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing

I've seen the 2 L-shaped metal rods used to locate
underground electrical cable .. to my astonishment.
John T.

I've done it also with welding rods. Go at it from several directions. It works....

On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 4:25:33 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:45:35 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property. The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed. I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level. The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel. At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it. I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope. I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers. Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and
snooping with the other end. Nope! I don't have a metal detector.
Not sure where to go from here. Any great ideas out there?

How far do you remember it being from the lamp post?. It might be
easiest to dig up the wire and follow it to the box if you think it is
pretty close. The downside is you might damage the wire but if you
have it dug up anyway, it is just a piece of UF you have to replace
along with whatever you are planning to do. I doubt a metal detector
would help much if this is a plastic box. It might see the copper wire
but maybe not. This is supposed to be 24" down if it is not on a GFCI.

Seems logical. Track it back from the lamp post to box. Or if that's
gone, dig down before the lamp post about where you'd think the conduit
runs. If it;s not there, dig a foot to the left, then a foot to the right.
Has to be there somewhere.

On 6/3/2020 12:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.Â* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.Â* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.Â* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've
tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping
with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I don't have a metal detector. Not sure
where to go from here.Â* Any great ideas out there?

If there's any chance that the wire conductors are in contact with the
ground, you could connect the wires in the breaker box together to a hot
breaker, and then probe the ground near where you think is is with a
volt or mA meter set to AC and connected with a wire to the power
ground. You should see some voltage or current as you probe close to the
wire end. I used this method to find a break on the cable from my
fathers house to his shop.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:45:35 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property. The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed. I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level. The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel. At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it. I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope. I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers. Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and
snooping with the other end. Nope! I don't have a metal detector.
Not sure where to go from here. Any great ideas out there?


Well I checked Amazon for ground penetrating radar and they actually
have something but it's $1350.

https://www.amazon.com/Leica-Geosyst...ef=sr_1_1_sspa
Goes up to 33 feet deep.


Check to see if there is a tool library in your town.

There are two in Baltimore, and they have a lot of great hand and power
tools though they didn't have this one. Still, yours might.

The rental for a power hammer that Home Depot wanted iir $40 for 4 hours
was $20 for a week, but at this one it's supposed to be only for
community projects, not home. Still, they don't send a warden with the
tool. (And right now they're only doing covid projects, whatever those
might be.)


Or maybe some electrician with the right too. will do this for ???
Should only take 10 minute of his time but I know there's a minimum,
especially when a special tool is involved.


In indianapolis we had a wall switch for a light post near the street,
but no post. I don't know how we were supposed to find it in 1960. I
don't even know if the conduit was in place, maybe just the switch.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 3 Jun 2020 20:54:48 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 6/3/2020 12:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.* Nope. I've
tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping
with the other end.* Nope!** I don't have a metal detector. Not sure
where to go from here.* Any great ideas out there?

If there's any chance that the wire conductors are in contact with the
ground, you could connect the wires in the breaker box together to a hot
breaker,

I think you should put the current through a load first. A 150 watt
lightbulb or a 1100 watt heater.

and then probe the ground near where you think is is with a
volt or mA meter set to AC and connected with a wire to the power
ground. You should see some voltage or current as you probe close to the
wire end. I used this method to find a break on the cable from my
fathers house to his shop.

On 6/3/2020 9:34 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 3 Jun 2020 20:54:48 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 6/3/2020 12:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.Â* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.Â* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.Â* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've
tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping
with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I don't have a metal detector. Not sure
where to go from here.Â* Any great ideas out there?

If there's any chance that the wire conductors are in contact with the
ground, you could connect the wires in the breaker box together to a hot
breaker,

I think you should put the current through a load first. A 150 watt
lightbulb or a 1100 watt heater.

and then probe the ground near where you think is is with a
volt or mA meter set to AC and connected with a wire to the power
ground. You should see some voltage or current as you probe close to the
wire end. I used this method to find a break on the cable from my
fathers house to his shop.


When I did it, It was a 240V line on a breaker. The leakage is not all
that much, at least in the dry ground on that occasion. It certainly was
not blowing the breaker.

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 22:40:21 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 6/3/2020 9:34 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 3 Jun 2020 20:54:48 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 6/3/2020 12:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.Â* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.Â* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.Â* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've
tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping
with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I don't have a metal detector. Not sure
where to go from here.Â* Any great ideas out there?

If there's any chance that the wire conductors are in contact with the
ground, you could connect the wires in the breaker box together to a hot
breaker,

I think you should put the current through a load first. A 150 watt
lightbulb or a 1100 watt heater.

and then probe the ground near where you think is is with a
volt or mA meter set to AC and connected with a wire to the power
ground. You should see some voltage or current as you probe close to the
wire end. I used this method to find a break on the cable from my
fathers house to his shop.


When I did it, It was a 240V line on a breaker. The leakage is not all
that much, at least in the dry ground on that occasion. It certainly was
not blowing the breaker.

Those issues will all be gone with the 2020 code. That wire will be on
a GFCI and it will trip with the slightest ground contact. You will
just be digging the whole thing up and replacing it. They removed the
"120v 15&20 amp" language and apply 210.8 GFCI requirements to all
outlets (receptacle, lighting or otherwise) for 120 and 240v circuits,
at any amperage. Yes that means the dryer will be on a GFCI along with
any 240v equipment in the garage or outside (or any other place that
calls for GFCI) along with the 120v stuff that already should be.
When you add that to the AFCI requirements, there will not be many
standard breakers left in a residential panel.

Call miss utility, OK?

Call 811.

In article ,
says...

Call 811.



The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I just had them to come out and locate some wiring for me. They went
from the power pole to the meter about 200 feet away. Located the power
and cable. There was no gas lines or telephone lines in the general
area.

I tried using a very good metal detector for this wiring before and
after I knew where the wires were. I could trace an old underground
telephone easy. For some reason the power and cable lines were more
difficult for me to detect even when I knew where the company marked
them.

On 6/4/2020 4:54 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Call 811.



The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

+1

I called local company to locate exactly how Dad routed power from pole
to the house before we began the renovation...wasn't that expensive and
they had the good-enough gear to trace it. Friend with less expensive
unit and I tried for some time but it was too deep for its range.

I knew the general route but not precisely enough to be comfortable
telling the guys with the backhoe when it was time to go.

I did know the gas line is outside the are we were digging in so it was
safe.

We still found two (abandoned) water lines I didn't know were there--one
an old line to service north of the barn that had been disconnected 40+
year ago -- I remember when the tank was there but I had always thought
the line went from the other direction over there. The other was the
original service line to the house from the old original
windmill....that predated me too much to have a clue over. Fortunately,
both were abandoned so no harm done...

I just had them to come out and locate some wiring for me. They went
from the power pole to the meter about 200 feet away. Located the power
and cable. There was no gas lines or telephone lines in the general
area.

I tried using a very good metal detector for this wiring before and
after I knew where the wires were. I could trace an old underground
telephone easy. For some reason the power and cable lines were more
difficult for me to detect even when I knew where the company marked
them.

Probably just buried deeper -- typically the phone company barely covers
it over around here...if our service line is 12" it would be real close.
Dunno is there's any Code for that or not; it's been there "since
forever" and we're outside city jurisdiction and county had no
zoning/code at all until quite recent.

--

On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.Â* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.Â* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.Â* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've
tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping
with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I don't have a metal detector. Not sure
where to go from here.Â* Any great ideas out there?

I am not certain but believe last year when I had a new well dug, Miss
Utility was called and did delineate the wire to the old well. The new
one was dug about40 feet from the old one.

On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:09:03 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/4/2020 4:54 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Call 811.



The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

+1

I called local company to locate exactly how Dad routed power from pole
to the house before we began the renovation...wasn't that expensive and
they had the good-enough gear to trace it. Friend with less expensive
unit and I tried for some time but it was too deep for its range.

I knew the general route but not precisely enough to be comfortable
telling the guys with the backhoe when it was time to go.

I did know the gas line is outside the are we were digging in so it was
safe.

We still found two (abandoned) water lines I didn't know were there--one
an old line to service north of the barn that had been disconnected 40+
year ago -- I remember when the tank was there but I had always thought
the line went from the other direction over there. The other was the
original service line to the house from the old original
windmill....that predated me too much to have a clue over. Fortunately,
both were abandoned so no harm done...

I just had them to come out and locate some wiring for me. They went
from the power pole to the meter about 200 feet away. Located the power
and cable. There was no gas lines or telephone lines in the general
area.

I tried using a very good metal detector for this wiring before and
after I knew where the wires were. I could trace an old underground
telephone easy. For some reason the power and cable lines were more
difficult for me to detect even when I knew where the company marked
them.

Probably just buried deeper -- typically the phone company barely covers
it over around here...if our service line is 12" it would be real close.
Dunno is there's any Code for that or not; it's been there "since
forever" and we're outside city jurisdiction and county had no
zoning/code at all until quite recent.

Generally speaking
Article 725 (low voltage) and 800 (communications) wire is 6" or more.
Chapter 3 (line voltage) is 18" for branch circuit and feeder wire in
conduit, 24" for service laterals, conduit or not and direct burial
cable. There is a catch all residential exception for 120v 15&20a
circuits, GFI protected, that allows 12" depth.

This gets more complicated around pools and spas, under roads and some
other special locations

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:54:17 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Call 811.



The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

When they repaved the road outside our house, my mother was home and saw
them out there and got them to pave the mudhole that was in front of our
rural mailbox. She tipped them, but I wss never sure if it was a tip
or a bribe. It might have been part of their job to do this sort of
thing. She wasn't sure either. An area about 18" x 3 feet. They
filled it too.

Like I say I don't approve of that, but to get a paver to come out and
do 4.5 sq. feet would have cost $300? She was a widow and woudln't have
done it. But for the county to do it, it took 5 minutes to fill, 5 or
10 minutes for 2 guys to pave, and 5 minutes to roll.

I just had them to come out and locate some wiring for me. They went
from the power pole to the meter about 200 feet away. Located the power
and cable. There was no gas lines or telephone lines in the general
area.

I tried using a very good metal detector for this wiring before and
after I knew where the wires were. I could trace an old underground
telephone easy. For some reason the power and cable lines were more
difficult for me to detect even when I knew where the company marked
them.

On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.Â* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.Â* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.Â* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've
tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping
with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I don't have a metal detector. Not sure
where to go from here.Â* Any great ideas out there?
Here's an update. When I built the house I took tons of pics. I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
The pictures helped a bit. Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer. Originally, I was looking in a different spot. It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years. Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet. I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet. But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground). I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery). Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.Â* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.Â* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.Â* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.Â* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.Â* When I built the house I took tons of pics.Â* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
Â*The pictures helped a bit.Â* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.Â* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.Â* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.Â* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.Â* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.Â* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).Â* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).Â* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

BTW, this all started out when the GCFI on this circuit started tripping
randomly. It's a new GCFI in the panel. The power comes from the panel
and goes to a J-box next to the panel, where there is an X10 module to
power up the run going to the post light and 2 duplex outlets. The run
from the house to the area where the light and outlets are located, is
about 150'. So, when the post light is off, the neutral is still
connected to the 150' run, but, of course, not the hot lead. I am
wondering if this unbalance might be causing the GCFI tripage? I'm
guessing here, but it seems the GCFI trips at about the same time as the
X10 switch turns on.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 08:14:33 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.* Nope. I've
tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping
with the other end.* Nope!** I don't have a metal detector. Not sure
where to go from here.* Any great ideas out there?
Here's an update. When I built the house I took tons of pics. I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
The pictures helped a bit. Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer. Originally, I was looking in a different spot. It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years. Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet. I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet. But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground). I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery). Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

Maybe these units work better when the ground is wet. Or worse. What
am I, a scientist?

On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 11:08:39 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 08:14:33 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.* Nope. I've
tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping
with the other end.* Nope!** I don't have a metal detector. Not sure
where to go from here.* Any great ideas out there?
Here's an update. When I built the house I took tons of pics. I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
The pictures helped a bit. Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer. Originally, I was looking in a different spot. It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years. Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet. I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet. But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground). I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery). Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

Maybe these units work better when the ground is wet. Or worse. What
am I, a scientist?
Using trump's favorite line now, are you??? BG

The peanut gallery has caught on, have they?

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 10:06:25 AM UTC-4, Todesco wrote:
On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.Â* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.Â* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.Â* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.Â* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.Â* When I built the house I took tons of pics.Â* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did..
Â*The pictures helped a bit.Â* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.Â* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.Â* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.Â* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.Â* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.Â* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).Â* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).Â* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

BTW, this all started out when the GCFI on this circuit started tripping
randomly. It's a new GCFI in the panel. The power comes from the panel
and goes to a J-box next to the panel, where there is an X10 module to
power up the run going to the post light and 2 duplex outlets. The run
from the house to the area where the light and outlets are located, is
about 150'. So, when the post light is off, the neutral is still
connected to the 150' run, but, of course, not the hot lead. I am
wondering if this unbalance might be causing the GCFI tripage?

What imbalance? The only imbalance the GFCI is looking for is a difference
between that flowing in the hot lead and neutral. Light off, should be
no flow in either if it's wired correctly and not compromised.



I'm
guessing here, but it seems the GCFI trips at about the same time as the
X10 switch turns on.

Sounds like the X10 energizes the 150 ft line and that line has a fault.
I would disconnect the X10 from the outside line and see if the GFCI
holds with the X10 on and off. If so, the problem is in the outside line.
Which is common, could be some water has gotten into the box that you
can't find, etc.

On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:50:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 10:06:25 AM UTC-4, Todesco wrote:
On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.Â* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.Â* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.Â* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.Â* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.Â* When I built the house I took tons of pics.Â* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
Â*The pictures helped a bit.Â* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.Â* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.Â* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.Â* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.Â* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.Â* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).Â* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).Â* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

BTW, this all started out when the GCFI on this circuit started tripping
randomly. It's a new GCFI in the panel. The power comes from the panel
and goes to a J-box next to the panel, where there is an X10 module to
power up the run going to the post light and 2 duplex outlets. The run
from the house to the area where the light and outlets are located, is
about 150'. So, when the post light is off, the neutral is still
connected to the 150' run, but, of course, not the hot lead. I am
wondering if this unbalance might be causing the GCFI tripage?

What imbalance? The only imbalance the GFCI is looking for is a difference
between that flowing in the hot lead and neutral. Light off, should be
no flow in either if it's wired correctly and not compromised.



I'm
guessing here, but it seems the GCFI trips at about the same time as the
X10 switch turns on.

Sounds like the X10 energizes the 150 ft line and that line has a fault.
I would disconnect the X10 from the outside line and see if the GFCI
holds with the X10 on and off. If so, the problem is in the outside line.
Which is common, could be some water has gotten into the box that you
can't find, etc.



A agree with Trader, Cut this problem in half. Make sure it isn't the
pool light that is causing this.
You can also find, both legs work OK alone and it only fails when both
are connected which would mean you have leakage in both but not enough
for either to trip it alone.
Also be aware a grounded neutral will trip a GFCI because some of the
neutral current is still leaking to ground. That may actually be the
most common GF failure that is not tripping the breaker from an
overcurrent.

On 6/5/2020 1:15 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

On their contractor's hours, it's probably in the contract that they're
not supposed to do that I'd reckon. If they are indeed as most I've
seen here, actually local utility employees, then they're definitely on
the clock and doing unauthorized work would be cause for action against
them.

The other thing w/ 811 is you don't just wake up the electric folks or
the gas folks or whomever -- you stir up every utility service that has
anything in the area -- the phone folks, cable TV, water, gas, electric,
.... By law they have no recourse but to respond within two days from
the call. But, I bet they also have recourse against false calls
against the instigator...and probably not reluctant to use it.

--

On 6/5/2020 7:06 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.
The house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.
The house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.Â* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.Â* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.Â* When I built the house I took tons of pics.Â* I
didn't remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but
actually, I did. Â*Â*The pictures helped a bit.Â* Haven't found it yet,
but I feel I'm closer.Â* Originally, I was looking in a different
spot.Â* It's amazing how much growth occurred in 10 years.Â* Yesterday I
put my signal unit on the turned off lamp post outlet.Â* I can trace it
even to the 2nd outlet some 25' away without even getting right on
that outlet.Â* But in the ground there seems to be lots of attenuation
(ground).Â* I was getting close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers"
but had to give up as my back couldn't take any more (recent back
surgery).Â* Today it's supposed to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

BTW, this all started out when the GCFI on this circuit started tripping
randomly.Â* It's a new GCFI in the panel.Â* The power comes from the panel
and goes to a J-box next to the panel, where there is an X10 module to
power up the run going to the post light and 2 duplex outlets.Â* The run
from the house to the area where the light and outlets are located, is
about 150'.Â* So, when the post light is off, the neutral is still
connected to the 150' run, but, of course, not the hot lead.Â* I am
wondering if this unbalance might be causing the GCFI tripage?Â* I'm
guessing here, but it seems the GCFI trips at about the same time as the
X10 switch turns on.

That suggest leakage to ground, which might be found using the meter trick.

Next time, stick a piece of rebar where you bury the box.

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:48:31 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 6/5/2020 7:06 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.
The house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.
The house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.* Nope!** I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.* When I built the house I took tons of pics.* I
didn't remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but
actually, I did. **The pictures helped a bit.* Haven't found it yet,
but I feel I'm closer.* Originally, I was looking in a different
spot.* It's amazing how much growth occurred in 10 years.* Yesterday I
put my signal unit on the turned off lamp post outlet.* I can trace it
even to the 2nd outlet some 25' away without even getting right on
that outlet.* But in the ground there seems to be lots of attenuation
(ground).* I was getting close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers"
but had to give up as my back couldn't take any more (recent back
surgery).* Today it's supposed to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

BTW, this all started out when the GCFI on this circuit started tripping
randomly.* It's a new GCFI in the panel.* The power comes from the panel
and goes to a J-box next to the panel, where there is an X10 module to
power up the run going to the post light and 2 duplex outlets.* The run
from the house to the area where the light and outlets are located, is
about 150'.* So, when the post light is off, the neutral is still
connected to the 150' run, but, of course, not the hot lead.* I am
wondering if this unbalance might be causing the GCFI tripage?* I'm
guessing here, but it seems the GCFI trips at about the same time as the
X10 switch turns on.

That suggest leakage to ground, which might be found using the meter trick.

Next time, stick a piece of rebar where you bury the box.

Or bolt the box to something like a plough colter or a cultivator
disk - find it from 3 feet away with a metal detector even 50 years
down the road.

On 6/5/2020 6:03 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:48:31 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 6/5/2020 7:06 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.
The house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.
The house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.Â* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.Â* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.Â* When I built the house I took tons of pics.Â* I
didn't remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but
actually, I did. Â*Â*The pictures helped a bit.Â* Haven't found it yet,
but I feel I'm closer.Â* Originally, I was looking in a different
spot.Â* It's amazing how much growth occurred in 10 years.Â* Yesterday I
put my signal unit on the turned off lamp post outlet.Â* I can trace it
even to the 2nd outlet some 25' away without even getting right on
that outlet.Â* But in the ground there seems to be lots of attenuation
(ground).Â* I was getting close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers"
but had to give up as my back couldn't take any more (recent back
surgery).Â* Today it's supposed to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

BTW, this all started out when the GCFI on this circuit started tripping
randomly.Â* It's a new GCFI in the panel.Â* The power comes from the panel
and goes to a J-box next to the panel, where there is an X10 module to
power up the run going to the post light and 2 duplex outlets.Â* The run
from the house to the area where the light and outlets are located, is
about 150'.Â* So, when the post light is off, the neutral is still
connected to the 150' run, but, of course, not the hot lead.Â* I am
wondering if this unbalance might be causing the GCFI tripage?Â* I'm
guessing here, but it seems the GCFI trips at about the same time as the
X10 switch turns on.

That suggest leakage to ground, which might be found using the meter trick.

Next time, stick a piece of rebar where you bury the box.

Or bolt the box to something like a plough colter or a cultivator
disk - find it from 3 feet away with a metal detector even 50 years
down the road.

A high power magnet will find a rod end at the surface.

On 6/5/2020 6:03 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:48:31 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 6/5/2020 7:06 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.
The house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.Â* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.
The house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.Â* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.Â* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.Â* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.Â* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.Â* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.Â* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.Â* Nope!Â*Â* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.Â* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.Â* When I built the house I took tons of pics.Â* I
didn't remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but
actually, I did. Â*Â*The pictures helped a bit.Â* Haven't found it yet,
but I feel I'm closer.Â* Originally, I was looking in a different
spot.Â* It's amazing how much growth occurred in 10 years.Â* Yesterday I
put my signal unit on the turned off lamp post outlet.Â* I can trace it
even to the 2nd outlet some 25' away without even getting right on
that outlet.Â* But in the ground there seems to be lots of attenuation
(ground).Â* I was getting close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers"
but had to give up as my back couldn't take any more (recent back
surgery).Â* Today it's supposed to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

BTW, this all started out when the GCFI on this circuit started tripping
randomly.Â* It's a new GCFI in the panel.Â* The power comes from the panel
and goes to a J-box next to the panel, where there is an X10 module to
power up the run going to the post light and 2 duplex outlets.Â* The run
from the house to the area where the light and outlets are located, is
about 150'.Â* So, when the post light is off, the neutral is still
connected to the 150' run, but, of course, not the hot lead.Â* I am
wondering if this unbalance might be causing the GCFI tripage?Â* I'm
guessing here, but it seems the GCFI trips at about the same time as the
X10 switch turns on.

That suggest leakage to ground, which might be found using the meter trick.

Next time, stick a piece of rebar where you bury the box.

Or bolt the box to something like a plough colter or a cultivator
disk - find it from 3 feet away with a metal detector even 50 years
down the road.


I did also find that I could trace the general path of the wire to my
fathers shop by hooking a signal generator with an audio tone imposed on
a signal in the AM band to the wire with the breaker open, and using an
AM radio to follow the wire. It did not tell me where the break was, but
led me withing a few feet along its path.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:59:27 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 1:15 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

On their contractor's hours, it's probably in the contract that they're
not supposed to do that I'd reckon. If they are indeed as most I've
seen here, actually local utility employees, then they're definitely on
the clock and doing unauthorized work would be cause for action against
them.

The other thing w/ 811 is you don't just wake up the electric folks or
the gas folks or whomever -- you stir up every utility service that has
anything in the area -- the phone folks, cable TV, water, gas, electric,
... By law they have no recourse but to respond within two days from
the call. But, I bet they also have recourse against false calls
against the instigator...and probably not reluctant to use it.

You two give two possibilities and I have a feelilng it varies by
region.

I wasn't home when Miss Utility came so I don't know what kind of truck
he drove, private contractor or Miss Utility.

OTOH, I see https://www.missutility.net/ that it's one number for
Maryland, Delaware, DC and part of Virginia. At first that told me
local contractor, but I don't think that follows.

I don't think more than one person turned out. All the lines appeared
the same day, It would be so wasteful to send more than one guy**, and
it's not brain surgery: If he can mark the electric he can mark the
phone, etc. if they have to do it in 2 days, they couldn't use local
contractors who do other work -- they couldnt' always fit it in their
schedules or it would be travel wasteful to do so. If one guy does it
full time for, say, 1/5 of the county, he or a computer can plan his day
to do the least driving. That seems most likely here in Baltimore.


**To compare, the electric company has one guy per area to do all the
electric disconnects. Once back when I was sloppy and my electric was
disconnected (for non-payment it must have been), I didn't see the guy
who did it. I called up on the pohone and paid the bill, and then I
wanted the power back on but no one was doing it. So I did it myself
(by unplugging the meter, removing the plastic caps on the big metal
tabs,and plugging it back in.) When the guy came by 90 minutes later, I
told him someone else had come by and done it (and that was true if you
count me) later I realized that he must have been the same guy who
disconnected it, the only guy in my area and he knew I'd done it. But
he didn't say anything. He did put a new lead (lehd) tie on meter. I'm
sure I wasn't the first to do this.


BTW, in my case I figured I would be digging eventually for something,
and I knew I would not forget where the lines were. it turns out they
were all right next to each other, making that simple.


Here are the color codes for what they find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilit...#United_States
Australia's list is quite different!!

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 05 Jun 2020 13:16:09 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 11:08:39 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 08:14:33 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.* Nope. I've
tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping
with the other end.* Nope!** I don't have a metal detector. Not sure
where to go from here.* Any great ideas out there?

Here's an update. When I built the house I took tons of pics. I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
The pictures helped a bit. Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer. Originally, I was looking in a different spot. It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years. Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet. I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet. But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground). I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery). Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

Maybe these units work better when the ground is wet. Or worse. What
am I, a scientist?

Using trump's favorite line now, are you??? BG

You're right!

Well it probably would work better when it's wet and you should try
that. That's what I'd do. Of course it might not work as well. I
don't know abou these things, but that's what I would do.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 20:13:18 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 6:03 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:48:31 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 6/5/2020 7:06 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.
The house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.
The house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.* Nope!** I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.* When I built the house I took tons of pics.* I
didn't remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but
actually, I did. **The pictures helped a bit.* Haven't found it yet,
but I feel I'm closer.* Originally, I was looking in a different
spot.* It's amazing how much growth occurred in 10 years.* Yesterday I
put my signal unit on the turned off lamp post outlet.* I can trace it
even to the 2nd outlet some 25' away without even getting right on
that outlet.* But in the ground there seems to be lots of attenuation
(ground).* I was getting close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers"
but had to give up as my back couldn't take any more (recent back
surgery).* Today it's supposed to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

BTW, this all started out when the GCFI on this circuit started tripping
randomly.* It's a new GCFI in the panel.* The power comes from the panel
and goes to a J-box next to the panel, where there is an X10 module to
power up the run going to the post light and 2 duplex outlets.* The run
from the house to the area where the light and outlets are located, is
about 150'.* So, when the post light is off, the neutral is still
connected to the 150' run, but, of course, not the hot lead.* I am
wondering if this unbalance might be causing the GCFI tripage?* I'm
guessing here, but it seems the GCFI trips at about the same time as the
X10 switch turns on.

That suggest leakage to ground, which might be found using the meter trick.

Next time, stick a piece of rebar where you bury the box.

Or bolt the box to something like a plough colter or a cultivator
disk - find it from 3 feet away with a metal detector even 50 years
down the road.


I did also find that I could trace the general path of the wire to my
fathers shop by hooking a signal generator with an audio tone imposed on
a signal in the AM band to the wire with the breaker open, and using an
AM radio to follow the wire. It did not tell me where the break was, but
led me withing a few feet along its path.

That's a good idea. Disconnect the wire from its breaker and run a
jumper wire to the earphone jack of a radio. Probably not loud enough.

Get some sort of transmitter, CB, SW. walkie talkie? I don't think a
cell phone will ow

On Sat, 06 Jun 2020 04:03:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:59:27 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 1:15 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

On their contractor's hours, it's probably in the contract that they're
not supposed to do that I'd reckon. If they are indeed as most I've
seen here, actually local utility employees, then they're definitely on
the clock and doing unauthorized work would be cause for action against
them.

The other thing w/ 811 is you don't just wake up the electric folks or
the gas folks or whomever -- you stir up every utility service that has
anything in the area -- the phone folks, cable TV, water, gas, electric,
... By law they have no recourse but to respond within two days from
the call. But, I bet they also have recourse against false calls
against the instigator...and probably not reluctant to use it.

You two give two possibilities and I have a feelilng it varies by
region.

I wasn't home when Miss Utility came so I don't know what kind of truck
he drove, private contractor or Miss Utility.

OTOH, I see https://www.missutility.net/ that it's one number for
Maryland, Delaware, DC and part of Virginia. At first that told me
local contractor, but I don't think that follows.

I don't think more than one person turned out. All the lines appeared
the same day, It would be so wasteful to send more than one guy**, and
it's not brain surgery: If he can mark the electric he can mark the
phone, etc. if they have to do it in 2 days, they couldn't use local
contractors who do other work -- they couldnt' always fit it in their
schedules or it would be travel wasteful to do so. If one guy does it
full time for, say, 1/5 of the county, he or a computer can plan his day
to do the least driving. That seems most likely here in Baltimore.


**To compare, the electric company has one guy per area to do all the
electric disconnects. Once back when I was sloppy and my electric was
disconnected (for non-payment it must have been), I didn't see the guy
who did it. I called up on the pohone and paid the bill, and then I
wanted the power back on but no one was doing it. So I did it myself
(by unplugging the meter, removing the plastic caps on the big metal
tabs,and plugging it back in.) When the guy came by 90 minutes later, I
told him someone else had come by and done it (and that was true if you
count me) later I realized that he must have been the same guy who
disconnected it, the only guy in my area and he knew I'd done it. But
he didn't say anything. He did put a new lead (lehd) tie on meter. I'm
sure I wasn't the first to do this.


BTW, in my case I figured I would be digging eventually for something,
and I knew I would not forget where the lines were. it turns out they
were all right next to each other, making that simple.


Here are the color codes for what they find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilit...#United_States
Australia's list is quite different!!


One of the contractors in Baltimore is USIC. Call them and see if they
do private locates.
317.575.7800

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Jun 2020 07:50:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jun 2020 04:03:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:59:27 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 1:15 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

On their contractor's hours, it's probably in the contract that they're
not supposed to do that I'd reckon. If they are indeed as most I've
seen here, actually local utility employees, then they're definitely on
the clock and doing unauthorized work would be cause for action against
them.

The other thing w/ 811 is you don't just wake up the electric folks or
the gas folks or whomever -- you stir up every utility service that has
anything in the area -- the phone folks, cable TV, water, gas, electric,
... By law they have no recourse but to respond within two days from
the call. But, I bet they also have recourse against false calls
against the instigator...and probably not reluctant to use it.

You two give two possibilities and I have a feelilng it varies by
region.

I wasn't home when Miss Utility came so I don't know what kind of truck
he drove, private contractor or Miss Utility.

OTOH, I see https://www.missutility.net/ that it's one number for
Maryland, Delaware, DC and part of Virginia. At first that told me
local contractor, but I don't think that follows.

I don't think more than one person turned out. All the lines appeared
the same day, It would be so wasteful to send more than one guy**, and
it's not brain surgery: If he can mark the electric he can mark the
phone, etc. if they have to do it in 2 days, they couldn't use local
contractors who do other work -- they couldnt' always fit it in their
schedules or it would be travel wasteful to do so. If one guy does it
full time for, say, 1/5 of the county, he or a computer can plan his day
to do the least driving. That seems most likely here in Baltimore.


**To compare, the electric company has one guy per area to do all the
electric disconnects. Once back when I was sloppy and my electric was
disconnected (for non-payment it must have been), I didn't see the guy
who did it. I called up on the pohone and paid the bill, and then I
wanted the power back on but no one was doing it. So I did it myself
(by unplugging the meter, removing the plastic caps on the big metal
tabs,and plugging it back in.) When the guy came by 90 minutes later, I
told him someone else had come by and done it (and that was true if you
count me) later I realized that he must have been the same guy who
disconnected it, the only guy in my area and he knew I'd done it. But
he didn't say anything. He did put a new lead (lehd) tie on meter. I'm
sure I wasn't the first to do this.


BTW, in my case I figured I would be digging eventually for something,
and I knew I would not forget where the lines were. it turns out they
were all right next to each other, making that simple.


Here are the color codes for what they find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilit...#United_States
Australia's list is quite different!!


One of the contractors in Baltimore is USIC. Call them and see if they
do private locates.
317.575.7800

I'm sure they're closed over the weekend, and tehy probably do do
private searches, but if they make a special trip, they're going to want
to charge for an hour .

My theory was that every one is entitled to call Miss Utility once
unless he's never going to dig or have anyone else dig.

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

If this box is located near where utilities run, you could call the location
services people and tell them you're putting in sprinklers or similar
work and they will likely wind up marking it out anyway, no? IDK
exactly what tools they use, but wouldn't they also see and mark any
premise lines that show up?

In article ,
says...

If this box is located near where utilities run, you could call the location
services people and tell them you're putting in sprinklers or similar
work and they will likely wind up marking it out anyway, no? IDK
exactly what tools they use, but wouldn't they also see and mark any
premise lines that show up?




Probably not. The one that marked some utility lines out for me Friday
had a transmitter box he hooked to the ground wire at the house going to
the power pole after disconnecting it from the meter box. Then took a
hand held unti similar looking to a metal detector and ran over the
ground.

As he did not have to mark very much compaired to what I told the 811
people, I have a well house located about 100 feet from the house. I
asked him if there was any way he could run the detector over that well
line and he said he could not do that with the equipment he had. Not
sure if he was blowing me off or not, but that was his response.

I did see a Youtube video later about sprinkler systems and you can
detect the wires going to the sprinkler heads , but you have to
disconnect the low voltage wires going to the system. He could probably
have used his equipment, but would have to go to the breaker box and
disconnect the 240 volt like to the well pump.

On 6/6/2020 3:03 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:59:27 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 1:15 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

On their contractor's hours, it's probably in the contract that they're
not supposed to do that I'd reckon. If they are indeed as most I've
seen here, actually local utility employees, then they're definitely on
the clock and doing unauthorized work would be cause for action against
them.

The other thing w/ 811 is you don't just wake up the electric folks or
the gas folks or whomever -- you stir up every utility service that has
anything in the area -- the phone folks, cable TV, water, gas, electric,
... By law they have no recourse but to respond within two days from
the call. But, I bet they also have recourse against false calls
against the instigator...and probably not reluctant to use it.

You two give two possibilities and I have a feelilng it varies by
region.

I wasn't home when Miss Utility came so I don't know what kind of truck
he drove, private contractor or Miss Utility.

OTOH, I see https://www.missutility.net/ that it's one number for
Maryland, Delaware, DC and part of Virginia. At first that told me
local contractor, but I don't think that follows.

I don't think more than one person turned out. All the lines appeared
the same day, It would be so wasteful to send more than one guy**, and
it's not brain surgery: If he can mark the electric he can mark the
phone, etc. if they have to do it in 2 days, they couldn't use local
contractors who do other work -- they couldnt' always fit it in their
schedules or it would be travel wasteful to do so. If one guy does it
full time for, say, 1/5 of the county, he or a computer can plan his day
to do the least driving. That seems most likely here in Baltimore.

....

Large metro areas are undoubtedly different than rural but the 811
program (I'd never heard of "Miss Utility" before; that moniker is never
used around here) is the FCC-assigned national number for CGA Common
Ground Alliance that is a member-supported 501(c)(3) organization that
does the regional coordination.

In at least rural W KS, they all show up; at least for a rural location
where there are large high-pressure gas transmission lines in the
quarter section of the dig location...Black Hills will be on the phone
within 10 minutes to confirm am not doing anything or even thinking of
doing anything within 100 miles (so to speak ) of their lines. The
tap from down in the pasture to the house is mine; they do their
quarterly leak checks but as far as the 811 location service, "not their
job" so they don't and have never staked it.

Ditto above for CMS, the electric co-op; they have nothing underground
so they don't bother; as noted above I hired a local to trace exactly
how Dad had routed the service to the house from the pole since he redid
all that while we were in VA/TN...

If were doing something near where I know roughly the gas lines run, I'd
have to get them located precisely myself as well. The tap off the high
pressure line/meter are out in the pasture along the fence row; it's
about a quarter-mile run back up to the house. (The tap for neighbor's
house located half-mile west on N side of road/section line is on same
one on his side of the road and runs along S side of his property over
3/4 mile to get to the homestead--since the pipeline runs SW-NE by the
time it gets from our tap N to him it's almost another 1/4 mi further
east away from him).

Just looked on KS CGA call center site; in KS the markers are only valid
for 15 days after they are marked -- after that if something goes wrong
and you didn't call again it's on you.

Not that they're going to move, but in the rare instance if they
happened to have goofed or missed something, that you had the
information from some years ago and relied on that wouldn't be good
enough for digging now...

--


We still have the landline phone for the storm/weather outage when cells
go away; ATT sent the guy out and since it's theirs from the pole to the
outside box on the house, he traced it...

On Sat, 06 Jun 2020 09:19:27 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Jun 2020 07:50:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jun 2020 04:03:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:59:27 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 1:15 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

On their contractor's hours, it's probably in the contract that they're
not supposed to do that I'd reckon. If they are indeed as most I've
seen here, actually local utility employees, then they're definitely on
the clock and doing unauthorized work would be cause for action against
them.

The other thing w/ 811 is you don't just wake up the electric folks or
the gas folks or whomever -- you stir up every utility service that has
anything in the area -- the phone folks, cable TV, water, gas, electric,
... By law they have no recourse but to respond within two days from
the call. But, I bet they also have recourse against false calls
against the instigator...and probably not reluctant to use it.

You two give two possibilities and I have a feelilng it varies by
region.

I wasn't home when Miss Utility came so I don't know what kind of truck
he drove, private contractor or Miss Utility.

OTOH, I see https://www.missutility.net/ that it's one number for
Maryland, Delaware, DC and part of Virginia. At first that told me
local contractor, but I don't think that follows.

I don't think more than one person turned out. All the lines appeared
the same day, It would be so wasteful to send more than one guy**, and
it's not brain surgery: If he can mark the electric he can mark the
phone, etc. if they have to do it in 2 days, they couldn't use local
contractors who do other work -- they couldnt' always fit it in their
schedules or it would be travel wasteful to do so. If one guy does it
full time for, say, 1/5 of the county, he or a computer can plan his day
to do the least driving. That seems most likely here in Baltimore.


**To compare, the electric company has one guy per area to do all the
electric disconnects. Once back when I was sloppy and my electric was
disconnected (for non-payment it must have been), I didn't see the guy
who did it. I called up on the pohone and paid the bill, and then I
wanted the power back on but no one was doing it. So I did it myself
(by unplugging the meter, removing the plastic caps on the big metal
tabs,and plugging it back in.) When the guy came by 90 minutes later, I
told him someone else had come by and done it (and that was true if you
count me) later I realized that he must have been the same guy who
disconnected it, the only guy in my area and he knew I'd done it. But
he didn't say anything. He did put a new lead (lehd) tie on meter. I'm
sure I wasn't the first to do this.


BTW, in my case I figured I would be digging eventually for something,
and I knew I would not forget where the lines were. it turns out they
were all right next to each other, making that simple.


Here are the color codes for what they find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilit...#United_States
Australia's list is quite different!!


One of the contractors in Baltimore is USIC. Call them and see if they
do private locates.
317.575.7800

I'm sure they're closed over the weekend, and tehy probably do do
private searches, but if they make a special trip, they're going to want
to charge for an hour .

My theory was that every one is entitled to call Miss Utility once
unless he's never going to dig or have anyone else dig.

You can call for a free locate any time you want them to look for
buried utilities. The question was whether you can call them to find a
privately owned wire on your property and I said they will most likely
want to charge you since there are no utilities to charge but it might
not be that expensive compared to repairing a wire or pipe you own
when you cut it.