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On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 08:10:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.


Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.


If this box is located near where utilities run, you could call the location
services people and tell them you're putting in sprinklers or similar
work and they will likely wind up marking it out anyway, no? IDK
exactly what tools they use, but wouldn't they also see and mark any
premise lines that show up?


I have had the locate people out here a few times and they only marked
things in the right of way. They didn't mark my buried phone line to
the house. It did get hit.
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On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 1:00:31 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 08:10:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.


If this box is located near where utilities run, you could call the location
services people and tell them you're putting in sprinklers or similar
work and they will likely wind up marking it out anyway, no? IDK
exactly what tools they use, but wouldn't they also see and mark any
premise lines that show up?


I have had the locate people out here a few times and they only marked
things in the right of way. They didn't mark my buried phone line to
the house. It did get hit.


Here they mark right up to the house for all utilities. But IDK if there
was buried property wiring if they would register it or mark it. I would
tend to think they might, just because how would they know for sure what
is there's and what is not? This must be a common issue that contractors
would know about. It's not just service from the street, but any other
buried wiring, gas, water, etc that could be where they are going to do
work.

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In article ,
says...

Here they mark right up to the house for all utilities. But IDK if there
was buried property wiring if they would register it or mark it. I would
tend to think they might, just because how would they know for sure what
is there's and what is not? This must be a common issue that contractors
would know about. It's not just service from the street, but any other
buried wiring, gas, water, etc that could be where they are going to do
work.




Here is a wweb page that explains it.

https://geomodel.com/locating-underg...-miss-utility-
is-not-an-option/


Basically anything that is past the meter to the house for electricity
or gas the home owner is responsiable for. That could be a propane tank
you have for heating or cooking that has a line under ground,
sprinklers,Wires to lammp posts or other buildings.

Same for phone and cable lines. They go to the junction box and any
user installed items past that are your problem.

Someone asked about Miss Utility. That is one of the names for the 811
service.
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In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Jun 2020 12:56:14 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jun 2020 09:19:27 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Jun 2020 07:50:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jun 2020 04:03:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:59:27 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 1:15 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

On their contractor's hours, it's probably in the contract that they're
not supposed to do that I'd reckon. If they are indeed as most I've
seen here, actually local utility employees, then they're definitely on
the clock and doing unauthorized work would be cause for action against
them.

The other thing w/ 811 is you don't just wake up the electric folks or
the gas folks or whomever -- you stir up every utility service that has
anything in the area -- the phone folks, cable TV, water, gas, electric,
... By law they have no recourse but to respond within two days from
the call. But, I bet they also have recourse against false calls
against the instigator...and probably not reluctant to use it.

You two give two possibilities and I have a feelilng it varies by
region.

I wasn't home when Miss Utility came so I don't know what kind of truck
he drove, private contractor or Miss Utility.

OTOH, I see
https://www.missutility.net/ that it's one number for
Maryland, Delaware, DC and part of Virginia. At first that told me
local contractor, but I don't think that follows.

I don't think more than one person turned out. All the lines appeared
the same day, It would be so wasteful to send more than one guy**, and
it's not brain surgery: If he can mark the electric he can mark the
phone, etc. if they have to do it in 2 days, they couldn't use local
contractors who do other work -- they couldnt' always fit it in their
schedules or it would be travel wasteful to do so. If one guy does it
full time for, say, 1/5 of the county, he or a computer can plan his day
to do the least driving. That seems most likely here in Baltimore.


**To compare, the electric company has one guy per area to do all the
electric disconnects. Once back when I was sloppy and my electric was
disconnected (for non-payment it must have been), I didn't see the guy
who did it. I called up on the pohone and paid the bill, and then I
wanted the power back on but no one was doing it. So I did it myself
(by unplugging the meter, removing the plastic caps on the big metal
tabs,and plugging it back in.) When the guy came by 90 minutes later, I
told him someone else had come by and done it (and that was true if you
count me) later I realized that he must have been the same guy who
disconnected it, the only guy in my area and he knew I'd done it. But
he didn't say anything. He did put a new lead (lehd) tie on meter. I'm
sure I wasn't the first to do this.


BTW, in my case I figured I would be digging eventually for something,
and I knew I would not forget where the lines were. it turns out they
were all right next to each other, making that simple.


Here are the color codes for what they find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilit...#United_States
Australia's list is quite different!!


One of the contractors in Baltimore is USIC. Call them and see if they
do private locates.
317.575.7800


I'm sure they're closed over the weekend, and tehy probably do do
private searches, but if they make a special trip, they're going to want
to charge for an hour .

My theory was that every one is entitled to call Miss Utility once
unless he's never going to dig or have anyone else dig.


You can call for a free locate any time you want them to look for
buried utilities. The question was whether you can call them to find a
privately owned wire on your property and I said they will most likely
want to charge you since there are no utilities to charge but it might
not be that expensive compared to repairing a wire or pipe you own
when you cut it.


I just noticed that Todesco, the OP, hasn't posted again in the 3 days
this thrad has been running. LOL


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In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Jun 2020 16:49:01 -0400, micky
wrote:


I'm sure they're closed over the weekend, and tehy probably do do
private searches, but if they make a special trip, they're going to want
to charge for an hour .

My theory was that every one is entitled to call Miss Utility once
unless he's never going to dig or have anyone else dig.


You can call for a free locate any time you want them to look for
buried utilities. The question was whether you can call them to find a
privately owned wire on your property and I said they will most likely
want to charge you since there are no utilities to charge but it might
not be that expensive compared to repairing a wire or pipe you own
when you cut it.


I just noticed that Todesco, the OP, hasn't posted again in the 3 days
this thrad has been running. LOL


OOPs, he posted twice yesterday. They were in a part of the thread
after 4 unretrieved bodies that show up in red and I thought it was
another thread.

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On 6/6/2020 3:03 AM, micky wrote:
....


BTW, in my case I figured I would be digging eventually for something,
and I knew I would not forget where the lines were. it turns out they
were all right next to each other, making that simple.

....

Again, I was speaking of calling 811 expecting them to locate
owner-responsibility lines, NOT what they're there for of locating the
utility lines up to the transition point.

That on occasion one might find they did locate to the house from the
utility drop point I wouldn't be terribly surprised but to expect it
and/or to request that from them when show up as being why called;
that's off limits in my understanding of CGA.

--

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On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 12:29:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 1:00:31 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 08:10:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:05:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once
the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I
wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and
they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for
future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he
looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for
you. After you're desperate.

Since these locate people are usually contractors working for the
municipality or the utilities, you paying them to do things outside
the scope of their contract isn't a bribe. It is simply paying a
contractor for extra work. Perhaps the proper way is to call the
company directly, not 811 (or whatever the number is where you are)
and dealing with their management/sales people. That is completely
above board.

If this box is located near where utilities run, you could call the location
services people and tell them you're putting in sprinklers or similar
work and they will likely wind up marking it out anyway, no? IDK
exactly what tools they use, but wouldn't they also see and mark any
premise lines that show up?


I have had the locate people out here a few times and they only marked
things in the right of way. They didn't mark my buried phone line to
the house. It did get hit.


Here they mark right up to the house for all utilities. But IDK if there
was buried property wiring if they would register it or mark it. I would
tend to think they might, just because how would they know for sure what
is there's and what is not? This must be a common issue that contractors
would know about. It's not just service from the street, but any other
buried wiring, gas, water, etc that could be where they are going to do
work.


They only marked to the edge of the right of way, not where it went
under the original driveway.. It was just as well since I wanted it in
conduit anyway and I had a roll of flooded cable.
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On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 16:25:17 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Here they mark right up to the house for all utilities. But IDK if there
was buried property wiring if they would register it or mark it. I would
tend to think they might, just because how would they know for sure what
is there's and what is not? This must be a common issue that contractors
would know about. It's not just service from the street, but any other
buried wiring, gas, water, etc that could be where they are going to do
work.




Here is a wweb page that explains it.

https://geomodel.com/locating-underg...-miss-utility-
is-not-an-option/


Basically anything that is past the meter to the house for electricity
or gas the home owner is responsiable for. That could be a propane tank
you have for heating or cooking that has a line under ground,
sprinklers,Wires to lammp posts or other buildings.

Same for phone and cable lines. They go to the junction box and any
user installed items past that are your problem.

Someone asked about Miss Utility. That is one of the names for the 811
service.

Because they miss more utilities than the find??
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In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Jun 2020 22:36:50 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 16:25:17 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Here they mark right up to the house for all utilities. But IDK if there
was buried property wiring if they would register it or mark it. I would
tend to think they might, just because how would they know for sure what
is there's and what is not? This must be a common issue that contractors
would know about. It's not just service from the street, but any other
buried wiring, gas, water, etc that could be where they are going to do
work.




Here is a wweb page that explains it.

https://geomodel.com/locating-underg...-miss-utility-
is-not-an-option/


Basically anything that is past the meter to the house for electricity
or gas the home owner is responsiable for. That could be a propane tank
you have for heating or cooking that has a line under ground,
sprinklers,Wires to lammp posts or other buildings.

Same for phone and cable lines. They go to the junction box and any
user installed items past that are your problem.

Someone asked about Miss Utility. That is one of the names for the 811
service.

Because they miss more utilities than the find??


No. Because she's Mr. Utility's daughter. She's cute but if you mess
with her, or trifle with her affections, her father turns all your
utilities off.


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On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?

Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics.┬* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

Next update. Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time only
the receiver. It works very well to pic up 60Hz. Connected an electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp. It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close. My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time. BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers. More later.
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On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property. The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed. I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level. The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel. At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it. I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope. I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers. Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end. Nope! I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here. Any
great ideas out there?

Here's an update. When I built the house I took tons of pics. I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
The pictures helped a bit. Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer. Originally, I was looking in a different spot. It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years. Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet. I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet. But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground). I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery). Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.


In a construction class I took (2011), the instructor was describing how you could reach down if the ground is watery enough 2 or 3 feet to find a leaky pipe. But by then, the water could be pumped out, even if it's an electrical box.
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On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?

Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics.┬* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

Next update. Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time only
the receiver. It works very well to pic up 60Hz. Connected an electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp. It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close. My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time. BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers. More later.


I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.
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On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics.┬* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

Next update. Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time only
the receiver. It works very well to pic up 60Hz. Connected an electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp. It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close. My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time. BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers. More later.


I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried. The box cover was at ground
level. However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant, there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc. I think some of the new plants are growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover. When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.
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On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 7:32:11 AM UTC-4, Todesco wrote:
On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics.┬* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.
Next update. Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time only
the receiver. It works very well to pic up 60Hz. Connected an electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp. It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close. My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time. BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers. More later.


I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried. The box cover was at ground
level. However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant, there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc. I think some of the new plants are growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover. When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.


What was the purpose of the box to begin with? I would have boxes were
there is a light post, receptacle, etc. If I needed to splice it, eg for
repair, I would just do an underground splice, no box.


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On Sat, 06 Jun 2020 22:36:50 -0400, Clare Snyder posted for all
of us to digest...


On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 16:25:17 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Here they mark right up to the house for all utilities. But IDK if there
was buried property wiring if they would register it or mark it. I would
tend to think they might, just because how would they know for sure what
is there's and what is not? This must be a common issue that contractors
would know about. It's not just service from the street, but any other
buried wiring, gas, water, etc that could be where they are going to do
work.




Here is a wweb page that explains it.

https://geomodel.com/locating-underg...-miss-utility-
is-not-an-option/


Basically anything that is past the meter to the house for electricity
or gas the home owner is responsiable for. That could be a propane tank
you have for heating or cooking that has a line under ground,
sprinklers,Wires to lammp posts or other buildings.

Same for phone and cable lines. They go to the junction box and any
user installed items past that are your problem.

Someone asked about Miss Utility. That is one of the names for the 811
service.

Because they miss more utilities than the find??


Ha Ha LOL that's true.

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Tekkie
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On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:32:05 -0400, Todesco posted for all of us
to digest...


On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.* Nope!** I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.* When I built the house I took tons of pics.* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
*The pictures helped a bit.* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.
Next update. Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time only
the receiver. It works very well to pic up 60Hz. Connected an electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp. It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close. My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time. BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers. More later.


I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried. The box cover was at ground
level. However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant, there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc. I think some of the new plants are growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover. When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.


Go to Arlington products, they have just the thing you are
looking for; hopefully.

--
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In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:32:05 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.* Nope!** I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.* When I built the house I took tons of pics.* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
*The pictures helped a bit.* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.
Next update. Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time only
the receiver. It works very well to pic up 60Hz. Connected an electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp. It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close. My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time. BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers. More later.


I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried. The box cover was at ground
level. However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant, there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc. I think some of the new plants are growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover. When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.


So it coulnd't be more than an inch or two deep.

Have you tried poking the ground for the box?. Take a broom stick or a
dowel rod and put a long? nail in one end, then grind the nail head off
and grind it moderately sharp. Then go all around the yard poking. If
it wa a 6" box you only have to poke every 5 inches.

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On 6/3/2020 5:18 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:45:35 -0400,
wrote:

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property. The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed. I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level. The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel. At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it. I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope. I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers. Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and
snooping with the other end. Nope! I don't have a metal detector.
Not sure where to go from here. Any great ideas out there?


Two possible ways to find the box/wire. Easier way first.
Take a portable AM radio, tune into a station, hold the antenna so the
back of the radio faces the ground. Rotate the radio around keeping the
back facing the ground. You should find a direction where the signal
drops very low or disappears completely. Now keeping the radio in that
direction, lower it to the ground and pass it over the area where you
think the wire is. When you pass it over the wire the signal level will
pop up. (The wire in the ground re-radiates the AM radio signal and
causes it to locally come from a different direction, thus the radio
picks it up) Once you find the wire, just work your way to the box,
sliding the radio back and forth listening for the signal to come and go.
The second way, Since you have a box on the end, you might try a 1/4"
3ft iron rod. put a rounded but sharp point on it. Set up a grid where
you think the box might be. Start poking the rod into the ground at
least as deep as you think the box might be, and work your grid until
you hit the box. I have found 3/4" PVC conduit using this method, but
I'd search for the box.
If the ground is hard, I heat the end of the rod and flatten it, maybe
1/2" wide and then grind/file to an arrowhead shape. Stick the other end
into a portable drill and drill it into the ground until you find the box.
Mikek


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On 6/9/2020 7:01 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:32:05 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics.┬* I didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did.
┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.
Next update. Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time only
the receiver. It works very well to pic up 60Hz. Connected an electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp. It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close. My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time. BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers. More later.

I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried. The box cover was at ground
level. However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant, there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc. I think some of the new plants are growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover. When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.


So it coulnd't be more than an inch or two deep.

Have you tried poking the ground for the box?. Take a broom stick or a
dowel rod and put a long? nail in one end, then grind the nail head off
and grind it moderately sharp. Then go all around the yard poking. If
it wa a 6" box you only have to poke every 5 inches.

The box was there to terminate the 2" plastic conduit. Yes, I could
have just passed the wire through and buried it, but then it would back
fill with dirt, etc. As for poking, I've even used a pitchfork. I'd
sacrifice the box cover just to find it. Didn't do anything yesterday.
Today it's supposed to rain all day, but it is sunny now. More later.


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On 6/9/2020 7:52 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/9/2020 7:01 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:32:05 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my
property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground
level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the
non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics.┬* I
didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually,
I did.
┬*┬* ┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal
unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd
outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's
supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.
Next update.┬* Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time
only
the receiver.┬* It works very well to pic up 60Hz.┬* Connected an
electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp.┬* It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close.┬* My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time.
BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers.┬* More later.

I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried.┬* The box cover was at ground
level.┬* However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant, there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc.┬* I think some of the new plants are growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover.┬* When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.


So it coulnd't be more than an inch or two deep.

Have you tried poking the ground for the box?.┬*┬* Take a broom stick or a
dowel rod and put a long? nail in one end, then grind the nail head off
and grind it moderately sharp.┬* Then go all around the yard poking.┬* If
it wa a 6" box you only have to poke every 5 inches.

The box was there to terminate the 2" plastic conduit.┬* Yes, I could
have just passed the wire through and buried it, but then it would back
fill with dirt, etc.┬* As for poking, I've even used a pitchfork.┬* I'd
sacrifice the box cover just to find it.┬* Didn't do anything yesterday.
Today it's supposed to rain all day, but it is sunny now.┬* More later.


Found it! It was just inside the clump of weeds (wild flowers). I used
the AM radio as someone suggested, but with a twist. I tuned to an area
where there was no signal. When the radio came to the area where the
cable was buried, it buzzed, 60Hz plus lots of harmonics. I sounded
like there was some data signal on the line as one of the harmonics
seemed to beep in a repepitive cadence. I could actuallly "see" where
the cable going through the clump of flowers. The box only had about an
inch or less of leaf mulch over it. Now I need to open it and look
inside. It was too hot and mostly too humid to continue, so I went to
the mailbox to retrieve the mail....spam, of course.

Next I have to see why the GFCI sometimes trips. I've googled the
problem and people seem to think anything of 150' for the circuit is a
recipe for false tripping. I also turn on the circuit at the house, but
only interrupt the hot lead. So when the circuit powers up, there is
capacitance between the conductors and earch that could cause more
current flow through one conductor than the other. BTW, the run is
about 250' from the GFCI breaker to the box. At that point it splits.
One wire goes to the lamp post, about 15' and the other to an outlet
about 25'. I really don't want to put the GFCI out at the end, but
maybe that's the only way to make it work. More later.

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On 6/9/2020 4:24 AM, amdx wrote:
On 6/3/2020 5:18 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:45:35 -0400,
wrote:

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a 4" square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.┬* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.┬* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the years, the outside box has
disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.┬* Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and
snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I don't have a metal detector.
Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any great ideas out there?


Two possible ways to find the box/wire. Easier way first.
┬*Take a portable AM radio, tune into a station, hold the antenna so the
back of the radio faces the ground. Rotate the radio around keeping the
back facing the ground. You should find a direction where the signal
drops very low or disappears completely. Now keeping the radio in that
direction, lower it to the ground and pass it over the area where you
think the wire is. When you pass it over the wire the signal level will
pop up. (The wire in the ground re-radiates the AM radio signal and
causes it to locally come from a different direction, thus the radio
picks it up) Once you find the wire, just work your way to the box,
sliding the radio back and forth listening for the signal to come and go.


I like that one. I will have to try it some time.

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On 6/9/2020 7:13 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 6/9/2020 4:24 AM, amdx wrote:
On 6/3/2020 5:18 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:45:35 -0400,
wrote:

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house
to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a 4"
square
plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level.┬* The house end
is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the house end, I
connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel.┬* At the
other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and
one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the years, the outside box
has
disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've tried raking up the leaf mulch.
Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers.┬* Nope.
I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and
snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I don't have a metal detector.
Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any great ideas out there?


Two possible ways to find the box/wire. Easier way first.
┬*┬*Take a portable AM radio, tune into a station, hold the antenna so
the back of the radio faces the ground. Rotate the radio around
keeping the back facing the ground. You should find a direction where
the signal drops very low or disappears completely. Now keeping the
radio in that direction, lower it to the ground and pass it over the
area where you think the wire is. When you pass it over the wire the
signal level will pop up. (The wire in the ground re-radiates the AM
radio signal and causes it to locally come from a different direction,
thus the radio picks it up) Once you find the wire, just work your way
to the box, sliding the radio back and forth listening for the signal
to come and go.


I like that one. I will have to try it some time.

Bob F, I did too, but it didn't work for me, but the AM radio did work.
Check out my posts from yesterday.
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On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 5:33:12 PM UTC-4, Todesco wrote:
On 6/9/2020 7:52 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/9/2020 7:01 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:32:05 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my
property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground
level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the
non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics..┬* I
didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually,
I did.
┬*┬* ┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal
unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd
outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's
supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.
Next update.┬* Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time
only
the receiver.┬* It works very well to pic up 60Hz.┬* Connected an
electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp.┬* It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close.┬* My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time.
BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers.┬* More later.

I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried.┬* The box cover was at ground
level.┬* However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant, there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc.┬* I think some of the new plants are growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover.┬* When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.

So it coulnd't be more than an inch or two deep.

Have you tried poking the ground for the box?.┬*┬* Take a broom stick or a
dowel rod and put a long? nail in one end, then grind the nail head off
and grind it moderately sharp.┬* Then go all around the yard poking.┬* If
it wa a 6" box you only have to poke every 5 inches.

The box was there to terminate the 2" plastic conduit.┬* Yes, I could
have just passed the wire through and buried it, but then it would back
fill with dirt, etc.┬* As for poking, I've even used a pitchfork.┬* I'd
sacrifice the box cover just to find it.┬* Didn't do anything yesterday.
Today it's supposed to rain all day, but it is sunny now.┬* More later.


Found it! It was just inside the clump of weeds (wild flowers). I used
the AM radio as someone suggested, but with a twist. I tuned to an area
where there was no signal. When the radio came to the area where the
cable was buried, it buzzed, 60Hz plus lots of harmonics. I sounded
like there was some data signal on the line as one of the harmonics
seemed to beep in a repepitive cadence. I could actuallly "see" where
the cable going through the clump of flowers. The box only had about an
inch or less of leaf mulch over it. Now I need to open it and look
inside. It was too hot and mostly too humid to continue, so I went to
the mailbox to retrieve the mail....spam, of course.

Next I have to see why the GFCI sometimes trips. I've googled the
problem and people seem to think anything of 150' for the circuit is a
recipe for false tripping. I also turn on the circuit at the house, but
only interrupt the hot lead. So when the circuit powers up, there is
capacitance between the conductors and earch that could cause more
current flow through one conductor than the other.


I suppose that's possible, but if it is, then one would think it would be
a well known restriction, that you can't put GFCI on a circuit over X feet
in length. I would also think it would either not exist in cable runs or
be far less of a problem. The capacitance of interest would be between
hot and ground and neutral and ground. In a cable, because of the fixed
location of the two the capacitance should be about equal, so there would
be no imbalance. If it's wire in conduit, then I guess the spacing overall
between the hot and ground and neutral and ground could turn out to be
unequal. I guess you could model it, figure out what the capacitance of such
a run would be and how much imbalance it could theoretically induce.

One thing that would argue against that being the cause would be that the GFCI
was presumably there when it was first installed and it worked. If it's
not working now, my 99% bet would be that it's because of water intrusion,
like in that buried box.






BTW, the run is
about 250' from the GFCI breaker to the box. At that point it splits.
One wire goes to the lamp post, about 15' and the other to an outlet
about 25'. I really don't want to put the GFCI out at the end, but
maybe that's the only way to make it work. More later.


  #65   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 14,142
Default Help finding underground wire/box

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 04:53:08 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 5:33:12 PM UTC-4, Todesco wrote:
On 6/9/2020 7:52 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/9/2020 7:01 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:32:05 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my
property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground
level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the
non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics.┬* I
didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually,
I did.
┬*┬* ┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal
unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd
outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's
supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.
Next update.┬* Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time
only
the receiver.┬* It works very well to pic up 60Hz.┬* Connected an
electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp.┬* It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close.┬* My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time.
BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers.┬* More later.

I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried.┬* The box cover was at ground
level.┬* However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant, there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc.┬* I think some of the new plants are growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover.┬* When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.

So it coulnd't be more than an inch or two deep.

Have you tried poking the ground for the box?.┬*┬* Take a broom stick or a
dowel rod and put a long? nail in one end, then grind the nail head off
and grind it moderately sharp.┬* Then go all around the yard poking.┬* If
it wa a 6" box you only have to poke every 5 inches.

The box was there to terminate the 2" plastic conduit.┬* Yes, I could
have just passed the wire through and buried it, but then it would back
fill with dirt, etc.┬* As for poking, I've even used a pitchfork.┬* I'd
sacrifice the box cover just to find it.┬* Didn't do anything yesterday.
Today it's supposed to rain all day, but it is sunny now.┬* More later.


Found it! It was just inside the clump of weeds (wild flowers). I used
the AM radio as someone suggested, but with a twist. I tuned to an area
where there was no signal. When the radio came to the area where the
cable was buried, it buzzed, 60Hz plus lots of harmonics. I sounded
like there was some data signal on the line as one of the harmonics
seemed to beep in a repepitive cadence. I could actuallly "see" where
the cable going through the clump of flowers. The box only had about an
inch or less of leaf mulch over it. Now I need to open it and look
inside. It was too hot and mostly too humid to continue, so I went to
the mailbox to retrieve the mail....spam, of course.

Next I have to see why the GFCI sometimes trips. I've googled the
problem and people seem to think anything of 150' for the circuit is a
recipe for false tripping. I also turn on the circuit at the house, but
only interrupt the hot lead. So when the circuit powers up, there is
capacitance between the conductors and earch that could cause more
current flow through one conductor than the other.


I suppose that's possible, but if it is, then one would think it would be
a well known restriction, that you can't put GFCI on a circuit over X feet
in length. I would also think it would either not exist in cable runs or
be far less of a problem. The capacitance of interest would be between
hot and ground and neutral and ground. In a cable, because of the fixed
location of the two the capacitance should be about equal, so there would
be no imbalance. If it's wire in conduit, then I guess the spacing overall
between the hot and ground and neutral and ground could turn out to be
unequal. I guess you could model it, figure out what the capacitance of such
a run would be and how much imbalance it could theoretically induce.

One thing that would argue against that being the cause would be that the GFCI
was presumably there when it was first installed and it worked. If it's
not working now, my 99% bet would be that it's because of water intrusion,
like in that buried box.


There are recommendations about the maximum distances on GFCI circuits
and it is different for cables and wire in a metal raceway but most
tripping is still caused by actual ground faults, usually water in a
box.
One tip is to keep wire nuts away from the side if the box and point
them up.


  #66   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Help finding underground wire/box

On 6/10/2020 7:53 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 5:33:12 PM UTC-4, Todesco wrote:
On 6/9/2020 7:52 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/9/2020 7:01 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:32:05 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my
property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground
level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the
non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.┬* Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics.┬* I
didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually,
I did.
┬*┬* ┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal
unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd
outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's
supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.
Next update.┬* Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time
only
the receiver.┬* It works very well to pic up 60Hz.┬* Connected an
electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp.┬* It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think I'm
close.┬* My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time.
BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers.┬* More later.

I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried.┬* The box cover was at ground
level.┬* However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant, there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc.┬* I think some of the new plants are growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover.┬* When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.

So it coulnd't be more than an inch or two deep.

Have you tried poking the ground for the box?.┬*┬* Take a broom stick or a
dowel rod and put a long? nail in one end, then grind the nail head off
and grind it moderately sharp.┬* Then go all around the yard poking.┬* If
it wa a 6" box you only have to poke every 5 inches.

The box was there to terminate the 2" plastic conduit.┬* Yes, I could
have just passed the wire through and buried it, but then it would back
fill with dirt, etc.┬* As for poking, I've even used a pitchfork.┬* I'd
sacrifice the box cover just to find it.┬* Didn't do anything yesterday.
Today it's supposed to rain all day, but it is sunny now.┬* More later.


Found it! It was just inside the clump of weeds (wild flowers). I used
the AM radio as someone suggested, but with a twist. I tuned to an area
where there was no signal. When the radio came to the area where the
cable was buried, it buzzed, 60Hz plus lots of harmonics. I sounded
like there was some data signal on the line as one of the harmonics
seemed to beep in a repepitive cadence. I could actuallly "see" where
the cable going through the clump of flowers. The box only had about an
inch or less of leaf mulch over it. Now I need to open it and look
inside. It was too hot and mostly too humid to continue, so I went to
the mailbox to retrieve the mail....spam, of course.

Next I have to see why the GFCI sometimes trips. I've googled the
problem and people seem to think anything of 150' for the circuit is a
recipe for false tripping. I also turn on the circuit at the house, but
only interrupt the hot lead. So when the circuit powers up, there is
capacitance between the conductors and earch that could cause more
current flow through one conductor than the other.


I suppose that's possible, but if it is, then one would think it would be
a well known restriction, that you can't put GFCI on a circuit over X feet
in length. I would also think it would either not exist in cable runs or
be far less of a problem. The capacitance of interest would be between
hot and ground and neutral and ground. In a cable, because of the fixed
location of the two the capacitance should be about equal, so there would
be no imbalance. If it's wire in conduit, then I guess the spacing overall
between the hot and ground and neutral and ground could turn out to be
unequal. I guess you could model it, figure out what the capacitance of such
a run would be and how much imbalance it could theoretically induce.

If you google the maximum cable length for GFCI, you will see all kinds
of maximums. But 250' seems to be the one that most manufacturers use.

One thing that would argue against that being the cause would be that the GFCI
was presumably there when it was first installed and it worked. If it's
not working now, my 99% bet would be that it's because of water intrusion,
like in that buried box.

I agree about the 99% thing. This is a new GFCI breaker, replacing the
old one which was a dead front GFCI mounted just below the breaker box.
The old GFCI never tripped falsely. When there were lots of Christmas
lights on the circuit and it was very wet, it did trip, but that's it.
I'm thinking this one (the breaker) might be a little more sensitive.
But, I'm still pursuing the water thing. Last night the circuit was on
at dusk but didn't trip until maybe 10PM. It was raining last night.
Unfortunately I didn't cover either of the 2 outlets. One is easy as
you can just throw a bucket over it. The other is mounted to lamp post
and requires some plastic bagging. I will try bagging it today if the
rain slow a bit.

BTW, the run is
about 250' from the GFCI breaker to the box. At that point it splits.
One wire goes to the lamp post, about 15' and the other to an outlet
about 25'. I really don't want to put the GFCI out at the end, but
maybe that's the only way to make it work. More later.



  #67   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Help finding underground wire/box

On 6/10/2020 1:35 PM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/10/2020 7:53 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 5:33:12 PM UTC-4, Todesco wrote:
On 6/9/2020 7:52 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/9/2020 7:01 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:32:05 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/7/2020 4:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:37:54 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/5/2020 8:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/3/2020 3:45 PM, Todesco wrote:
10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my
property.┬* The
house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the
house to the area where the post light was to be installed.┬* I
put a
4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground
level.┬* The
house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway.┬* At the
house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the
panel.┬* At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex",
one to
the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away.┬* Through the
years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it.┬* I've
tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope.┬* I've also tried one of the
non
touch voltage testers.┬* Nope. I've tried a tracing unit
connecting a
signal to the power line and snooping with the other end.
Nope!┬*┬* I
don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here.┬* Any
great ideas out there?
Here's an update.┬* When I built the house I took tons of pics.┬* I
didn't
remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually,
I did.
┬*┬*┬* ┬*The pictures helped a bit.┬* Haven't found it yet, but I
feel I'm
closer.┬* Originally, I was looking in a different spot.┬* It's
amazing
how much growth occurred in 10 years.┬* Yesterday I put my signal
unit on
the turned off lamp post outlet.┬* I can trace it even to the 2nd
outlet
some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet.┬* But
in the
ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground).┬* I was
getting
close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up
as my
back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery).┬* Today it's
supposed
to rain all day, so it will have to wait.
Next update.┬* Yesterday, I used my sounder/receiver, but this time
only
the receiver.┬* It works very well to pic up 60Hz.┬* Connected an
electric
heater to the outlet on the post lamp.┬* It provided lots of 'hum'.
Still didn't find the plastic 4x4 box in the ground, but I think
I'm
close.┬* My back got tired again, so I quit after a short time.
BTW, the
area in front of my house is au-natural ... no grass, just wild
stiff.
We've even planted some wild flowers.┬* More later.

I suppose a pedantic old inspector might point out you should have
never buried a box in the first place but now you have a chance
to do
it right.

Well actually, it was never really buried.┬* The box cover was at
ground
level.┬* However, being in an area where plant growth is rampant,
there
is lots of leaf mulch, etc.┬* I think some of the new plants are
growing
in the leaf mulch on top of the box cover.┬* When I find it, I will
probably glue on another box extension and put some kind of a marker.

So it coulnd't be more than an inch or two deep.

Have you tried poking the ground for the box?.┬*┬* Take a broom stick
or a
dowel rod and put a long? nail in one end, then grind the nail head
off
and grind it moderately sharp.┬* Then go all around the yard
poking.┬* If
it wa a 6" box you only have to poke every 5 inches.

The box was there to terminate the 2" plastic conduit.┬* Yes, I could
have just passed the wire through and buried it, but then it would back
fill with dirt, etc.┬* As for poking, I've even used a pitchfork.┬* I'd
sacrifice the box cover just to find it.┬* Didn't do anything yesterday.
Today it's supposed to rain all day, but it is sunny now.┬* More later.

Found it!┬* It was just inside the clump of weeds (wild flowers).┬* I used
the AM radio as someone suggested, but with a twist.┬* I tuned to an area
where there was no signal.┬* When the radio came to the area where the
cable was buried, it buzzed, 60Hz plus lots of harmonics.┬* I sounded
like there was some data signal on the line as one of the harmonics
seemed to beep in a repepitive cadence.┬* I could actuallly "see" where
the cable going through the clump of flowers. The box only had about an
inch or less of leaf mulch over it.┬* Now I need to open it and look
inside.┬* It was too hot and mostly too humid to continue, so I went to
the mailbox to retrieve the mail....spam, of course.

Next I have to see why the GFCI sometimes trips.┬* I've googled the
problem and people seem to think anything of 150' for the circuit is a
recipe for false tripping.┬* I also turn on the circuit at the house, but
only interrupt the hot lead.┬* So when the circuit powers up, there is
capacitance between the conductors and earch that could cause more
current flow through one conductor than the other.


I suppose that's possible, but if it is, then one would think it would be
a well known restriction, that you can't put GFCI on a circuit over X
feet
in length.┬* I would also think it would either not exist in cable runs or
be far less of a problem.┬* The capacitance of interest would be between
hot and ground and neutral and ground.┬* In a cable, because of the fixed
location of the two the capacitance should be about equal, so there would
be no imbalance.┬* If it's wire in conduit, then I guess the spacing
overall
between the hot and ground and neutral and ground could turn out to be
unequal.┬* I guess you could model it, figure out what the capacitance
of such
a run would be and how much imbalance it could theoretically induce.

If you google the maximum cable length for GFCI, you will see all kinds
of maximums.┬* But 250' seems to be the one that most manufacturers use.

One thing that would argue against that being the cause would be that
the GFCI
was presumably there when it was first installed and it worked.┬* If it's
not working now, my 99% bet would be that it's because of water
intrusion,
like in that buried box.

I agree about the 99% thing.┬* This is a new GFCI breaker, replacing the
old one which was a dead front GFCI mounted just below the breaker box.
The old GFCI never tripped falsely.┬* When there were lots of Christmas
lights on the circuit and it was very wet, it did trip, but that's it.
I'm thinking this one (the breaker) might be a little more sensitive.
But, I'm still pursuing the water thing.┬* Last night the circuit was on
at dusk but didn't trip until maybe 10PM.┬* It was raining last night.
Unfortunately I didn't cover either of the 2 outlets.┬* One is easy as
you can just throw a bucket over it.┬* The other is mounted to lamp post
and requires some plastic bagging.┬* I will try bagging it today if the
rain slow a bit.

┬* BTW, the run is
about 250' from the GFCI breaker to the box.┬* At that point it splits.
One wire goes to the lamp post, about 15' and the other to an outlet
about 25'.┬* I really don't want to put the GFCI out at the end, but
maybe that's the only way to make it work.┬* More later.



I opened the, now found 4" plastic box, expecting to find it full of
water. Nope. Just a little condensation and some mud which leaked in
through where the UF wire goes to the lamp post and also another outlet.
I cleaned the area where the wires enter and sealed with a sealant.
Power to the box comes through a 2" orange plastic flexible conduit.
Wire nuts were centered in the box not touching the sides. So, the GFCI
breaker trips from something, so I plastic bagged the outlet on the
bottom of the post light. The other outlet is covered with a bucket.
Now it's a waiting game to see if I get "false" trips.
  #68   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,637
Default Help finding underground wire/box

On 6/13/20 6:21 PM, Todesco wrote:

Snipped a bunch.

I opened the, now found 4" plastic box, expecting to find it full of
water.┬* Nope. Just a little condensation and some mud which leaked in
through where the UF wire goes to the lamp post and also another outlet.
┬*I cleaned the area where the wires enter and sealed with a sealant.
Power to the box comes through a 2" orange plastic flexible conduit.
Wire nuts were centered in the box not touching the sides.┬* So, the GFCI
breaker trips from something, so I plastic bagged the outlet on the
bottom of the post light.┬* The other outlet is covered with a bucket.
Now it's a waiting game to see if I get "false" trips.


Were the open ends of the wire nuts on the down side so any
condensation that might've existed could drain?
There are wire nuts available that contain silicone sealant or
something similar. Maybe using those would help.

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Default Help finding underground wire/box

On 6/13/2020 7:36 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 6/13/20 6:21 PM, Todesco wrote:

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Snipped a bunch.

I opened the, now found 4" plastic box, expecting to find it full of
water.┬* Nope. Just a little condensation and some mud which leaked in
through where the UF wire goes to the lamp post and also another
outlet. ┬*┬*I cleaned the area where the wires enter and sealed with a
sealant. Power to the box comes through a 2" orange plastic flexible
conduit. Wire nuts were centered in the box not touching the sides.
So, the GFCI breaker trips from something, so I plastic bagged the
outlet on the bottom of the post light.┬* The other outlet is covered
with a bucket. Now it's a waiting game to see if I get "false" trips.


┬*┬*┬*┬* Were the open ends of the wire nuts on the down side so any
condensation that might've existed could drain?
┬* There are wire nuts available that contain silicone sealant or
something similar.┬*┬* Maybe using those would help.

Good point, I'll open the box and check it later today. It's suppossed
to rain today, so I don't know if I will get to it.
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Default Help finding underground wire/box

On 6/14/2020 6:29 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/13/2020 7:36 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 6/13/20 6:21 PM, Todesco wrote:

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Snipped a bunch.

I opened the, now found 4" plastic box, expecting to find it full of
water.┬* Nope. Just a little condensation and some mud which leaked in
through where the UF wire goes to the lamp post and also another
outlet. ┬*┬*I cleaned the area where the wires enter and sealed with a
sealant. Power to the box comes through a 2" orange plastic flexible
conduit. Wire nuts were centered in the box not touching the sides.
So, the GFCI breaker trips from something, so I plastic bagged the
outlet on the bottom of the post light.┬* The other outlet is covered
with a bucket. Now it's a waiting game to see if I get "false" trips.


┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Were the open ends of the wire nuts on the down side so any
condensation that might've existed could drain?
┬*┬* There are wire nuts available that contain silicone sealant or
something similar.┬*┬* Maybe using those would help.

Good point, I'll open the box and check it later today.┬* It's suppossed
to rain today, so I don't know if I will get to it.

Well it did rain, about an inch, so I didn't open the box. But, with
both outlets completely covered, no GCFI trippage. That doesn't really
mean anything because before it would trip the next day after a big
rain. More to come in this saga.


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Default Help finding underground wire/box

On 6/16/2020 7:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/14/2020 6:29 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/13/2020 7:36 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 6/13/20 6:21 PM, Todesco wrote:

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Snipped a bunch.

I opened the, now found 4" plastic box, expecting to find it full of
water.┬* Nope. Just a little condensation and some mud which leaked
in through where the UF wire goes to the lamp post and also another
outlet. ┬*┬*I cleaned the area where the wires enter and sealed with a
sealant. Power to the box comes through a 2" orange plastic flexible
conduit. Wire nuts were centered in the box not touching the sides.
So, the GFCI breaker trips from something, so I plastic bagged the
outlet on the bottom of the post light.┬* The other outlet is covered
with a bucket. Now it's a waiting game to see if I get "false" trips.

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Were the open ends of the wire nuts on the down side so any
condensation that might've existed could drain?
┬*┬* There are wire nuts available that contain silicone sealant or
something similar.┬*┬* Maybe using those would help.

Good point, I'll open the box and check it later today.┬* It's
suppossed to rain today, so I don't know if I will get to it.

Well it did rain, about an inch, so I didn't open the box.┬* But, with
both outlets completely covered, no GCFI trippage.┬* That doesn't really
mean anything because before it would trip the next day after a big
rain.┬* More to come in this saga.

Today, even though it was threatening to rain, I open the outside
(formerly burried) box. I wanted to put some better screws holing the
cover because at least one was stripped out. I was surprised at how
much condensation was on the inside of the cover. I did reposition the
wire nuts so the open end faced down. I think I am going to put a vent
on the cover. Maybe a 1" plastic pipe coming up, 90 degrees to the
right and then 45 degrees downward. A piece of screening in the pipe
would keep bugs and critters out.
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Default Help finding underground wire/box

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:56:57 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/16/2020 7:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/14/2020 6:29 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/13/2020 7:36 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 6/13/20 6:21 PM, Todesco wrote:

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Snipped a bunch.

I opened the, now found 4" plastic box, expecting to find it full of
water.┬* Nope. Just a little condensation and some mud which leaked
in through where the UF wire goes to the lamp post and also another
outlet. ┬*┬*I cleaned the area where the wires enter and sealed with a
sealant. Power to the box comes through a 2" orange plastic flexible
conduit. Wire nuts were centered in the box not touching the sides.
So, the GFCI breaker trips from something, so I plastic bagged the
outlet on the bottom of the post light.┬* The other outlet is covered
with a bucket. Now it's a waiting game to see if I get "false" trips.

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Were the open ends of the wire nuts on the down side so any
condensation that might've existed could drain?
┬*┬* There are wire nuts available that contain silicone sealant or
something similar.┬*┬* Maybe using those would help.

Good point, I'll open the box and check it later today.┬* It's
suppossed to rain today, so I don't know if I will get to it.

Well it did rain, about an inch, so I didn't open the box.┬* But, with
both outlets completely covered, no GCFI trippage.┬* That doesn't really
mean anything because before it would trip the next day after a big
rain.┬* More to come in this saga.

Today, even though it was threatening to rain, I open the outside
(formerly burried) box. I wanted to put some better screws holing the
cover because at least one was stripped out. I was surprised at how
much condensation was on the inside of the cover. I did reposition the
wire nuts so the open end faced down. I think I am going to put a vent
on the cover. Maybe a 1" plastic pipe coming up, 90 degrees to the
right and then 45 degrees downward. A piece of screening in the pipe
would keep bugs and critters out.


Underground installations are considered wet locations because they
all fill with water over time. Get some direct burial rated splices
like they use on well pump wires and eliminate that as a suspect.
  #73   Report Post  
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On 6/16/2020 10:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:56:57 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/16/2020 7:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/14/2020 6:29 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/13/2020 7:36 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 6/13/20 6:21 PM, Todesco wrote:

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Snipped a bunch.

I opened the, now found 4" plastic box, expecting to find it full of
water.┬* Nope. Just a little condensation and some mud which leaked
in through where the UF wire goes to the lamp post and also another
outlet. ┬*┬*I cleaned the area where the wires enter and sealed with a
sealant. Power to the box comes through a 2" orange plastic flexible
conduit. Wire nuts were centered in the box not touching the sides.
So, the GFCI breaker trips from something, so I plastic bagged the
outlet on the bottom of the post light.┬* The other outlet is covered
with a bucket. Now it's a waiting game to see if I get "false" trips.

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Were the open ends of the wire nuts on the down side so any
condensation that might've existed could drain?
┬*┬* There are wire nuts available that contain silicone sealant or
something similar.┬*┬* Maybe using those would help.

Good point, I'll open the box and check it later today.┬* It's
suppossed to rain today, so I don't know if I will get to it.
Well it did rain, about an inch, so I didn't open the box.┬* But, with
both outlets completely covered, no GCFI trippage.┬* That doesn't really
mean anything because before it would trip the next day after a big
rain.┬* More to come in this saga.

Today, even though it was threatening to rain, I open the outside
(formerly burried) box. I wanted to put some better screws holing the
cover because at least one was stripped out. I was surprised at how
much condensation was on the inside of the cover. I did reposition the
wire nuts so the open end faced down. I think I am going to put a vent
on the cover. Maybe a 1" plastic pipe coming up, 90 degrees to the
right and then 45 degrees downward. A piece of screening in the pipe
would keep bugs and critters out.


Underground installations are considered wet locations because they
all fill with water over time. Get some direct burial rated splices
like they use on well pump wires and eliminate that as a suspect.

Next update. It rained quite a bit on Tuesday, no trippage on Tuesday
night or Wednesday. On Thursday, just a drizzle in the 3AM area ...
Thursday night, tripped! I'm ready to remove the GCFI and go 'illegal'
with a regular breaker. As this never happened when I had the original
dead front GCFI just below the breaker box, I think I will exchange the
breaker for a new one. I might also try the old dead front GCFI again
to see what happens.
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Just call an electrician. Namely the one who put it there those many years ago, OK?.
  #75   Report Post  
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On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 07:33:49 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/16/2020 10:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:56:57 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 6/16/2020 7:14 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/14/2020 6:29 AM, Todesco wrote:
On 6/13/2020 7:36 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 6/13/20 6:21 PM, Todesco wrote:

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Snipped a bunch.

I opened the, now found 4" plastic box, expecting to find it full of
water.┬* Nope. Just a little condensation and some mud which leaked
in through where the UF wire goes to the lamp post and also another
outlet. ┬*┬*I cleaned the area where the wires enter and sealed with a
sealant. Power to the box comes through a 2" orange plastic flexible
conduit. Wire nuts were centered in the box not touching the sides.
So, the GFCI breaker trips from something, so I plastic bagged the
outlet on the bottom of the post light.┬* The other outlet is covered
with a bucket. Now it's a waiting game to see if I get "false" trips.

┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* Were the open ends of the wire nuts on the down side so any
condensation that might've existed could drain?
┬*┬* There are wire nuts available that contain silicone sealant or
something similar.┬*┬* Maybe using those would help.

Good point, I'll open the box and check it later today.┬* It's
suppossed to rain today, so I don't know if I will get to it.
Well it did rain, about an inch, so I didn't open the box.┬* But, with
both outlets completely covered, no GCFI trippage.┬* That doesn't really
mean anything because before it would trip the next day after a big
rain.┬* More to come in this saga.
Today, even though it was threatening to rain, I open the outside
(formerly burried) box. I wanted to put some better screws holing the
cover because at least one was stripped out. I was surprised at how
much condensation was on the inside of the cover. I did reposition the
wire nuts so the open end faced down. I think I am going to put a vent
on the cover. Maybe a 1" plastic pipe coming up, 90 degrees to the
right and then 45 degrees downward. A piece of screening in the pipe
would keep bugs and critters out.


Underground installations are considered wet locations because they
all fill with water over time. Get some direct burial rated splices
like they use on well pump wires and eliminate that as a suspect.

Next update. It rained quite a bit on Tuesday, no trippage on Tuesday
night or Wednesday. On Thursday, just a drizzle in the 3AM area ...
Thursday night, tripped! I'm ready to remove the GCFI and go 'illegal'
with a regular breaker. As this never happened when I had the original
dead front GCFI just below the breaker box, I think I will exchange the
breaker for a new one. I might also try the old dead front GCFI again
to see what happens.


If you want to make a worm chaser you could move the GFCI protection
to the first "outlet" outside. That is still legal, even on the 2020.
They did require GFCI on all outside "outlets" (including utility
buildings) in the 2020. That includes lighting outlets. (light
fixtures)


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On 6/19/2020 9:57 PM, wrote:
Just call an electrician. Namely the one who put it there those many years ago, OK?.

Actually, I did it so I need to fix it.
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