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Default Phone service

In article , "frank says...

It was a fantastic day when I kicked the AT$T noisy phone line to the curb.

These clowns are still trying to sell 6 Mb pewverse service that was
barely adequate 20 years ago.


I have a long term dislike for them too. Several years ago I had a
billing dispute with them and it got so bad I almost took them to court.
When it got resolved I dropped their long distance service and dropped
their credit card.



I got in on the first credit cards that ATT sent out.

It got to where I could not get the bill back to them before they added
a late charge. After twice mailing the check to them the same day I got
the bill and it still getting there too late and a late fee was charged
I cut it up.
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Default Phone service

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 23:06:25 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:36:55 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:14:38 -0500, Grumpy Old White Guy
wrote:

On 2/16/2020 2:47 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 2/15/20 3:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

* Most have "effectivel abandoned" all the copper already. The "main
trunk" runs along the back of my property and to replace it would
require tunnelling through a LOT of tree roots (almost a mile, end to
end across numeous properties) All the "spare pairs" have been used
and they cannot provide me (along with numerous others) a "clean
line".

A noisy phone line was why I switched to phone service from the cable company.


It was a fantastic day when I kicked the AT$T noisy phone line to the curb.

These clowns are still trying to sell 6 Mb pewverse service that was barely adequate 20 years ago.

Up here Bell is "selling" high speed internet, TV and home phone -
not saying what they are "delivering"


The Telco does OK here if you are on fiber but copper is pretty much
stuck with 10-25mb internet only plus a POTS line that is virtually
free ($15) and has all of the calling services. (free LD, call
waiting, conferencing, caller ID, voice mail and a bunch of other
stuff I never use) If you like to talk long distance a lot I suppose
it is a great deal.

Here "fibre" isn't necessarily (or even generally) fibre to the
door. The main trunk is fibre here - but the last half mile is 50 year
old buried copper.
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Default Phone service

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 2:25:34 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 23:06:25 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:36:55 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:14:38 -0500, Grumpy Old White Guy
wrote:

On 2/16/2020 2:47 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 2/15/20 3:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

Â* Most have "effectivel abandoned" all the copper already. The "main
trunk" runs along the back of my property and to replace it would
require tunnelling through a LOT of tree roots (almost a mile, end to
end across numeous properties) All the "spare pairs" have been used
and they cannot provide me (along with numerous others) a "clean
line".

A noisy phone line was why I switched to phone service from the cable company.


It was a fantastic day when I kicked the AT$T noisy phone line to the curb.

These clowns are still trying to sell 6 Mb pewverse service that was barely adequate 20 years ago.
Up here Bell is "selling" high speed internet, TV and home phone -
not saying what they are "delivering"


The Telco does OK here if you are on fiber but copper is pretty much
stuck with 10-25mb internet only plus a POTS line that is virtually
free ($15) and has all of the calling services. (free LD, call
waiting, conferencing, caller ID, voice mail and a bunch of other
stuff I never use) If you like to talk long distance a lot I suppose
it is a great deal.

Here "fibre" isn't necessarily (or even generally) fibre to the
door. The main trunk is fibre here - but the last half mile is 50 year
old buried copper.


But aren't they delivering cable TV services too using that fiber?
If so, how do they do that over the old copper? Not sure what the point
is to getting fiber to within 1/2 mile and then stopping.



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Default fiber-to-copper, was: Phone service

In trader_4 writes:

But aren't they delivering cable TV services too using that fiber?
If so, how do they do that over the old copper? Not sure what the point
is to getting fiber to within 1/2 mile and then stopping.


It's much easier and cheaper to splice copper wires (even coax)
and terminate it into equipment than doing it with fibre.

So "fiber to the block" is pretty common, and copper the
last 1,000 feet can easily handle all the standard amounts
of required bandwidth

--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
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Default fiber-to-copper, was: Phone service

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 3:49:49 PM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
In trader_4 writes:

But aren't they delivering cable TV services too using that fiber?
If so, how do they do that over the old copper? Not sure what the point
is to getting fiber to within 1/2 mile and then stopping.


It's much easier and cheaper to splice copper wires (even coax)
and terminate it into equipment than doing it with fibre.

So "fiber to the block" is pretty common, and copper the
last 1,000 feet can easily handle all the standard amounts
of required bandwidth


I guess that depends on what the standard amounts of required bandwidth are.
You sure aren't going to get 100+ mbit/sec over 1000 ft of 50 year
old copper telephone wire. Here in NJ Verizon Fios is fiber up
to the house. Which is what you would need to equal what I and
many others have through cable/internet. People that have copper for
the last 1000 ft, are they getting cable TV and internet through
that pipe?






  #46   Report Post  
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Default fiber-to-copper, was: Phone service

In trader_4 writes:

So "fiber to the block" is pretty common, and copper the
last 1,000 feet can easily handle all the standard amounts
of required bandwidth


I guess that depends on what the standard amounts of required bandwidth are.
You sure aren't going to get 100+ mbit/sec over 1000 ft of 50 year
old copper telephone wire. Here in NJ Verizon Fios is fiber up
to the house. Which is what you would need to equal what I and
many others have through cable/internet. People that have copper for
the last 1000 ft, are they getting cable TV and internet through
that pipe?


Oh, sure. To get decent throughput (by modern standards) that
last 1,000 feet has to be coax, not twisted pair...

I'm not quite sure where the neighbohood fiber - coax box is
here (and yes, I've searched..) but I can tell you our coax
gets us 100 meg plus numerous HD tv channels


--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
  #47   Report Post  
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Default fiber-to-copper, was: Phone service

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 4:58:57 PM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
In trader_4 writes:

So "fiber to the block" is pretty common, and copper the
last 1,000 feet can easily handle all the standard amounts
of required bandwidth


I guess that depends on what the standard amounts of required bandwidth are.
You sure aren't going to get 100+ mbit/sec over 1000 ft of 50 year
old copper telephone wire. Here in NJ Verizon Fios is fiber up
to the house. Which is what you would need to equal what I and
many others have through cable/internet. People that have copper for
the last 1000 ft, are they getting cable TV and internet through
that pipe?


Oh, sure. To get decent throughput (by modern standards) that
last 1,000 feet has to be coax, not twisted pair...



Then we are pretty much in agreement. I was responding in this context:

"Here "fibre" isn't necessarily (or even generally) fibre to the
door. The main trunk is fibre here - but the last half mile is 50 year
old buried copper. "

I took that to mean 50 year old telephone wire, which is usually what
people mean by "copper". If it's coax, eg cable TV, then it can
support higher rates.
  #48   Report Post  
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Default fiber-to-copper, was: Phone service

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:14:18 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 4:58:57 PM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
In trader_4 writes:

So "fiber to the block" is pretty common, and copper the
last 1,000 feet can easily handle all the standard amounts
of required bandwidth


I guess that depends on what the standard amounts of required bandwidth are.
You sure aren't going to get 100+ mbit/sec over 1000 ft of 50 year
old copper telephone wire. Here in NJ Verizon Fios is fiber up
to the house. Which is what you would need to equal what I and
many others have through cable/internet. People that have copper for
the last 1000 ft, are they getting cable TV and internet through
that pipe?


Oh, sure. To get decent throughput (by modern standards) that
last 1,000 feet has to be coax, not twisted pair...



Then we are pretty much in agreement. I was responding in this context:

"Here "fibre" isn't necessarily (or even generally) fibre to the
door. The main trunk is fibre here - but the last half mile is 50 year
old buried copper. "

I took that to mean 50 year old telephone wire, which is usually what
people mean by "copper". If it's coax, eg cable TV, then it can
support higher rates.


I have been hearing about the death of copper for 40 years and what
has been happening is they keep getting more speed out of it. We have
1gb Ethernet running on 2 twisted pairs right now and I remember when
they were saying 16 mb might be the limit. I agree 50-60 year old
copper sucked but if it was replaced in the last 30 years I bet they
can get over 100mb out of it, particularly if they used all 3 pairs in
the typical flooded drop cable of the late 80s.
  #49   Report Post  
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Default Phone service

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 11:28:45 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 13:42:50 -0500, wrote:

The county owned right of way is 66 feet wide in front of my house,
typical for a Florida residential street. 24 feet on each side of the
18' road is grass and that is where the utilities go. A lot of people
are shocked to find out they don't own the first 24 feet of their
yard. This is not an easement, the county just owns it. They can cut


"Not an easement, the county just owns it"...is that a Florida thing? I ask
because I'll be moving there eventually. Everyone does.

I've owned homes in Mississippi, Texas, Kansas, Nebraska, and Montana, not
all at the same time, and my property line has always been the curb. The
sidewalks cross my property but are owned and maintained by the city,
except for snow removal which was my responsibility, and there is always a
utility easement of about 15 feet, but it's just an easement.

I can't speak for every county and city but that is certainly the way
it works in Lee County. You can go to LEEPA.ORG, punch in the address
and see the property lines.
This is a shot of my house with the property lines in yellow.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/leepa2018.jpg

down "your" trees, dig up "your" grass and generally tell you what you
are allowed to do there. Lawn sprinklers are always an issue. If they
dig them up, tough ****. Legally all you can have is a mailbox and
with a permit, a driveway across it.

OTOH, you can make them mow it if you want. Just don't expect it to
happen often or get a very good job.


One of the utility companies here has a high voltage line running along the
back of my property with a 100-foot easement, 50 feet of which is on my
side and 50 feet on the next guy's property. In the fine print, though, it
says that they've agreed to repair any fences that have to come down in
case they need access to their lines. They don't have to replace trees,
shrubs, or outbuildings of any kind. It really shouldn't be an issue,
though. They have at least 3 ways to get back there without crossing any
private property.


They just own the 100' wide right of way behind me. It used to be a
railroad track before WWII.
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Default Phone service

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:21:53 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 2:25:34 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 23:06:25 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:36:55 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:14:38 -0500, Grumpy Old White Guy
wrote:

On 2/16/2020 2:47 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 2/15/20 3:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

Â* Most have "effectivel abandoned" all the copper already. The "main
trunk" runs along the back of my property and to replace it would
require tunnelling through a LOT of tree roots (almost a mile, end to
end across numeous properties) All the "spare pairs" have been used
and they cannot provide me (along with numerous others) a "clean
line".

A noisy phone line was why I switched to phone service from the cable company.


It was a fantastic day when I kicked the AT$T noisy phone line to the curb.

These clowns are still trying to sell 6 Mb pewverse service that was barely adequate 20 years ago.
Up here Bell is "selling" high speed internet, TV and home phone -
not saying what they are "delivering"

The Telco does OK here if you are on fiber but copper is pretty much
stuck with 10-25mb internet only plus a POTS line that is virtually
free ($15) and has all of the calling services. (free LD, call
waiting, conferencing, caller ID, voice mail and a bunch of other
stuff I never use) If you like to talk long distance a lot I suppose
it is a great deal.

Here "fibre" isn't necessarily (or even generally) fibre to the
door. The main trunk is fibre here - but the last half mile is 50 year
old buried copper.


But aren't they delivering cable TV services too using that fiber?
If so, how do they do that over the old copper? Not sure what the point
is to getting fiber to within 1/2 mile and then stopping.


The fiber to the home is a pretty expensive thing. It takes a lot to
make a splice add a splitter and run that last 50 feet in front of
every house. That is why they are pushing 5G so hard. The thought is
they will just put a 5g hub on every block and we will buy the rest.
The tin foil hat people are pushing back pretty hard, saying it is
like everyone is living under a cell phone tower. (RF damage etc)


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Default fiber-to-copper, was: Phone service

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 20:49:45 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In trader_4 writes:

But aren't they delivering cable TV services too using that fiber?
If so, how do they do that over the old copper? Not sure what the point
is to getting fiber to within 1/2 mile and then stopping.


It's much easier and cheaper to splice copper wires (even coax)
and terminate it into equipment than doing it with fibre.

So "fiber to the block" is pretty common, and copper the
last 1,000 feet can easily handle all the standard amounts
of required bandwidth

Except when it can't even handle analogue voice.
  #52   Report Post  
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Default fiber-to-copper, was: Phone service

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 21:58:53 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In trader_4 writes:

So "fiber to the block" is pretty common, and copper the
last 1,000 feet can easily handle all the standard amounts
of required bandwidth


I guess that depends on what the standard amounts of required bandwidth are.
You sure aren't going to get 100+ mbit/sec over 1000 ft of 50 year
old copper telephone wire. Here in NJ Verizon Fios is fiber up
to the house. Which is what you would need to equal what I and
many others have through cable/internet. People that have copper for
the last 1000 ft, are they getting cable TV and internet through
that pipe?


Oh, sure. To get decent throughput (by modern standards) that
last 1,000 feet has to be coax, not twisted pair...

I'm not quite sure where the neighbohood fiber - coax box is
here (and yes, I've searched..) but I can tell you our coax
gets us 100 meg plus numerous HD tv channels

Does here too, but that's not what Bell advertises and supplies. They
are on 50 year old twisted pair (Cat 3 at best)
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Default fiber-to-copper, was: Phone service

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 18:13:26 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:14:18 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 4:58:57 PM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
In trader_4 writes:

So "fiber to the block" is pretty common, and copper the
last 1,000 feet can easily handle all the standard amounts
of required bandwidth


I guess that depends on what the standard amounts of required bandwidth are.
You sure aren't going to get 100+ mbit/sec over 1000 ft of 50 year
old copper telephone wire. Here in NJ Verizon Fios is fiber up
to the house. Which is what you would need to equal what I and
many others have through cable/internet. People that have copper for
the last 1000 ft, are they getting cable TV and internet through
that pipe?

Oh, sure. To get decent throughput (by modern standards) that
last 1,000 feet has to be coax, not twisted pair...



Then we are pretty much in agreement. I was responding in this context:

"Here "fibre" isn't necessarily (or even generally) fibre to the
door. The main trunk is fibre here - but the last half mile is 50 year
old buried copper. "

I took that to mean 50 year old telephone wire, which is usually what
people mean by "copper". If it's coax, eg cable TV, then it can
support higher rates.


I have been hearing about the death of copper for 40 years and what
has been happening is they keep getting more speed out of it. We have
1gb Ethernet running on 2 twisted pairs right now and I remember when
they were saying 16 mb might be the limit. I agree 50-60 year old
copper sucked but if it was replaced in the last 30 years I bet they
can get over 100mb out of it, particularly if they used all 3 pairs in
the typical flooded drop cable of the late 80s.

We are in 'seventies copper
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Default fiber-to-copper, was: Phone service

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 20:50:35 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 18:13:26 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:14:18 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 4:58:57 PM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
In trader_4 writes:

So "fiber to the block" is pretty common, and copper the
last 1,000 feet can easily handle all the standard amounts
of required bandwidth


I guess that depends on what the standard amounts of required bandwidth are.
You sure aren't going to get 100+ mbit/sec over 1000 ft of 50 year
old copper telephone wire. Here in NJ Verizon Fios is fiber up
to the house. Which is what you would need to equal what I and
many others have through cable/internet. People that have copper for
the last 1000 ft, are they getting cable TV and internet through
that pipe?

Oh, sure. To get decent throughput (by modern standards) that
last 1,000 feet has to be coax, not twisted pair...



Then we are pretty much in agreement. I was responding in this context:

"Here "fibre" isn't necessarily (or even generally) fibre to the
door. The main trunk is fibre here - but the last half mile is 50 year
old buried copper. "

I took that to mean 50 year old telephone wire, which is usually what
people mean by "copper". If it's coax, eg cable TV, then it can
support higher rates.


I have been hearing about the death of copper for 40 years and what
has been happening is they keep getting more speed out of it. We have
1gb Ethernet running on 2 twisted pairs right now and I remember when
they were saying 16 mb might be the limit. I agree 50-60 year old
copper sucked but if it was replaced in the last 30 years I bet they
can get over 100mb out of it, particularly if they used all 3 pairs in
the typical flooded drop cable of the late 80s.

We are in 'seventies copper


I guess that we were lucky that after deregulation, Sprint swooped in
and buried all new wire.
I think the plan at the time was that it would be fiber on the curb
and the wire to the house. I am not sure what happened to the fiber
but they don't mark it anymore.
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