I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

The shingles are still very good. One plywood sheet is sagging an inch
at the top. The recommended repair is just the ridge rail, the fan, one
sheet of plywood, and the shingles above it. Why not just repair it and
then replace the whole roof in 5 or 10 years. (The roof is 13 years old
now) (Shingles used to patch it likely won't perfectly match what's
there now, and though I don't spend much time looking at roofs, I don't
recall anyone else here with unmatched shingles, and I don't rmember it
being a violation of any HOA rule.)

Is there any problem mixing 1/2" plywood with 3/8"? Will it look
funny from the ground? I think it has 3/8" now, going back to 1979.
(It's not the problematic fire-resistant.)

Is there a point to putting shingles over the ridge vent? Does it make
a plastic ridge vent last appreciably longer?

One roofer is suggesting architectural shingles.
Are they made out of a different material or are they just thicker?
Their shape, alternate wide and narrow, will clash with my next-door
attached townhouse (and every house in the n'hood.) Would any of you
care about that?
He says it's guaranteed for 50 years, transferrable to next owner. Is
that as good as it sounds, or will the next roofer say the warranty is
void** because the plywood is soft after 70 years (most of it is 40
years old now and 30 years from now, long before the 50 year warranty is
over, it will be 70 years old.) **OR, the warranty is good but it
doesn't matter because we have to rip off the warranted shingles to
replace the plywood and we can't reuse the shingles.


Is there a problem using a roof fan that is larger than necessary?
Any experience with the GAF fan that has WiFi/Bluetooth remote control?
Is it of any use? I have full width soffitt vents in the front and back
of a townhouse.
(Let's not do one more round of telling me I don't need a roof fan.
Every time I mention the fan, people claim I don't need it but my
experience is different, my mind is made up, and by now it's just
annoying.)

On 2/14/20 9:23 AM, micky wrote:
I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Have you considered calling Jasper Roofing for a quote?
I don't have their number handy but they're located next door to Jasper Towing.

On 2/14/2020 9:23 AM, micky wrote:
I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

The shingles are still very good. One plywood sheet is sagging an inch
at the top. The recommended repair is just the ridge rail, the fan, one
sheet of plywood, and the shingles above it. Why not just repair it and
then replace the whole roof in 5 or 10 years. (The roof is 13 years old
now) (Shingles used to patch it likely won't perfectly match what's
there now, and though I don't spend much time looking at roofs, I don't
recall anyone else here with unmatched shingles, and I don't rmember it
being a violation of any HOA rule.)

Is there any problem mixing 1/2" plywood with 3/8"? Will it look
funny from the ground? I think it has 3/8" now, going back to 1979.
(It's not the problematic fire-resistant.)

Is there a point to putting shingles over the ridge vent? Does it make
a plastic ridge vent last appreciably longer?

One roofer is suggesting architectural shingles.
Are they made out of a different material or are they just thicker?
Their shape, alternate wide and narrow, will clash with my next-door
attached townhouse (and every house in the n'hood.) Would any of you
care about that?
He says it's guaranteed for 50 years, transferrable to next owner. Is
that as good as it sounds, or will the next roofer say the warranty is
void** because the plywood is soft after 70 years (most of it is 40
years old now and 30 years from now, long before the 50 year warranty is
over, it will be 70 years old.) **OR, the warranty is good but it
doesn't matter because we have to rip off the warranted shingles to
replace the plywood and we can't reuse the shingles.


Is there a problem using a roof fan that is larger than necessary?
Any experience with the GAF fan that has WiFi/Bluetooth remote control?
Is it of any use? I have full width soffitt vents in the front and back
of a townhouse.
(Let's not do one more round of telling me I don't need a roof fan.
Every time I mention the fan, people claim I don't need it but my
experience is different, my mind is made up, and by now it's just
annoying.)


Either way can work, I'd base my decision on dollars. At 13 years you
can have from 5 to 10 years left on the shingles. If the fix is cheap
enough it is a good way to go, but if it is getting close to half the
cost of new, I'd go with new and be done.

Architectural shingles are heavier and will last longer. Regular
shingles should last about 20 years. Will you last 20 years? I know at
my age I want the job to last as long as I do so I don't have to play
with it when I'm 87 if I last that long.

As for appearance of the architectural, take a ride around the
neighborhood to see what others have done. Or you can be the pioneer
starting a new trend.

I'd not oversize the fan by much. You need ventilation, not a
hurricane pulling stuff through. No real benefit

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 9:23:15 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

The shingles are still very good. One plywood sheet is sagging an inch
at the top. The recommended repair is just the ridge rail,

What's a ridge rail? You mean ridge vent?


the fan, one
sheet of plywood, and the shingles above it. Why not just repair it and
then replace the whole roof in 5 or 10 years.

What was identified as the cause of this problem?




(The roof is 13 years old
now) (Shingles used to patch it likely won't perfectly match what's
there now, and though I don't spend much time looking at roofs, I don't
recall anyone else here with unmatched shingles, and I don't rmember it
being a violation of any HOA rule.)

Probably depends on the color, but they will look better in a couple
years as they weather and blend in.




Is there any problem mixing 1/2" plywood with 3/8"?
Will it look
funny from the ground? I think it has 3/8" now, going back to 1979.
(It's not the problematic fire-resistant.)

I think you're wrong and I doubt 3/8 was permitted. Is the roofer
suggesting to mix? If so, time for a new roofer. What happens if
shingles wind up getting nailed near a transition? And what's the
point to using a different thickness for one section?





Is there a point to putting shingles over the ridge vent? Does it make
a plastic ridge vent last appreciably longer?

The ones I'm familiar with require cap shingles, they are not intended to
be left totally exposed. And it makes it look better, close to a regular
roof with cap shingles.





One roofer is suggesting architectural shingles.

That's the smart one.


Are they made out of a different material or are they just thicker?

Both, probably and they have a different more complicated and nicer
look to them, as well as last longer.


Their shape, alternate wide and narrow, will clash with my next-door
attached townhouse (and every house in the n'hood.) Would any of you
care about that?

That's a problem, you're going to look like a hippie weirdo and the
neighbors will probably kick your ass too.



He says it's guaranteed for 50 years, transferrable to next owner. Is
that as good as it sounds, or will the next roofer say the warranty is
void** because the plywood is soft after 70 years

If the roof is done right, vented right, shingles replaced before they
fail, the plywood should not go soft. And the next roofer isn't going to
say anything about this roofer's warranty, he has nothing to do with it.
If it's a warranty from the manufacturer, they will have to deal with it.


(most of it is 40
years old now and 30 years from now, long before the 50 year warranty is
over, it will be 70 years old.) **OR, the warranty is good but it
doesn't matter because we have to rip off the warranted shingles to
replace the plywood and we can't reuse the shingles.

What specific shingles is in the proposal? What does the manufacturer
say about the lifespan? Architectural last longer, but 50 sounds too
long to me. Is that guarantee from the roofer or the manufacturer
and what exactly does it say? I'd bet that if someone went with a
problem at 30 years, good chance they would find some way not to pay
it. Also, does it cover the shingles and labor or just shingles?






Is there a problem using a roof fan that is larger than necessary?

Yes. If there is insufficient intake openings, it creates excessive
negative pressure in the attic, which will suck cold air from inside
the house into the attic through any available cracks, electric outlets,
etc.




Any experience with the GAF fan that has WiFi/Bluetooth remote control?
Is it of any use?

Yes, to GAF and the installer. When the electronic BS fail in the hot
attic, they get to sell and install a new one.



I have full width soffitt vents in the front and back
of a townhouse.
(Let's not do one more round of telling me I don't need a roof fan.
Every time I mention the fan, people claim I don't need it but my
experience is different, my mind is made up, and by now it's just
annoying.)

Just to be clear, the reason people said no fan is because you have a
ridge vent. With your cooling problem, how much insulation is in
the attic? More insulation into an 80s house would probably have a
reasonable payback time.

In article , says...

Either way can work, I'd base my decision on dollars. At 13 years you
can have from 5 to 10 years left on the shingles. If the fix is cheap
enough it is a good way to go, but if it is getting close to half the
cost of new, I'd go with new and be done.




Being a town house there may not be that many shingles involved for the
whole roof. As mentioned, the repair may be a good percentage of the
whole roof.

Be sure to get several estiments. I replaced my shingles of about 28
squares a few years back. The price was 2 bids around $ 8500, one bid
about $ 12,000 and another $ 18,000. I went with the next to the
lowest. They had shingles rated for something like 40 or 50 years like
the others. I think the fellow was low on estimating the size by about
2 squares. I tried to tell him that, but he insisted the satalitte view
of the house and his computer program was right. Sure enough he was off
by that much, but the price was the same. I had rough guessed about 30
squares and I helped one other pull a tape around the house and he said
29 squared. They were here after the satalitte man.
About 8 Mexicans showed up and the head man just looked at the shingles
that had been dropped off the day before and said he did not think there
were enough. At the end of the day he and I were right.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:

I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

The shingles are still very good. One plywood sheet is sagging an inch
at the top. The recommended repair is just the ridge rail, the fan, one
sheet of plywood, and the shingles above it. Why not just repair it and
then replace the whole roof in 5 or 10 years. (The roof is 13 years old
now) (Shingles used to patch it likely won't perfectly match what's
there now, and though I don't spend much time looking at roofs, I don't
recall anyone else here with unmatched shingles, and I don't rmember it
being a violation of any HOA rule.)

Is there any problem mixing 1/2" plywood with 3/8"? Will it look
funny from the ground? I think it has 3/8" now, going back to 1979.
(It's not the problematic fire-resistant.)

Is there a point to putting shingles over the ridge vent? Does it make
a plastic ridge vent last appreciably longer?

One roofer is suggesting architectural shingles.
Are they made out of a different material or are they just thicker?
Their shape, alternate wide and narrow, will clash with my next-door
attached townhouse (and every house in the n'hood.) Would any of you
care about that?
He says it's guaranteed for 50 years, transferrable to next owner. Is
that as good as it sounds, or will the next roofer say the warranty is
void** because the plywood is soft after 70 years (most of it is 40
years old now and 30 years from now, long before the 50 year warranty is
over, it will be 70 years old.) **OR, the warranty is good but it
doesn't matter because we have to rip off the warranted shingles to
replace the plywood and we can't reuse the shingles.


Is there a problem using a roof fan that is larger than necessary?
Any experience with the GAF fan that has WiFi/Bluetooth remote control?
Is it of any use? I have full width soffitt vents in the front and back
of a townhouse.
(Let's not do one more round of telling me I don't need a roof fan.
Every time I mention the fan, people claim I don't need it but my
experience is different, my mind is made up, and by now it's just
annoying.)

Several companiies including Certainteed make a polymer modified
aspheult shingle with a 50 year warranty. They are only madein
architectural style AFAIK. They appear to be an EXCELLENT shingle at a
more reasonanble price than steel. I used Certainteen NorthGate for my
replcement roof this year. They are flexible like rubber and difficult
to tear

On 2/14/2020 10:44 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

Either way can work, I'd base my decision on dollars. At 13 years you
can have from 5 to 10 years left on the shingles. If the fix is cheap
enough it is a good way to go, but if it is getting close to half the
cost of new, I'd go with new and be done.




Being a town house there may not be that many shingles involved for the
whole roof. As mentioned, the repair may be a good percentage of the
whole roof.

Be sure to get several estiments. I replaced my shingles of about 28
squares a few years back. The price was 2 bids around $ 8500, one bid
about $ 12,000 and another $ 18,000. I went with the next to the
lowest. They had shingles rated for something like 40 or 50 years like
the others. I think the fellow was low on estimating the size by about
2 squares. I tried to tell him that, but he insisted the satalitte view
of the house and his computer program was right. Sure enough he was off
by that much, but the price was the same. I had rough guessed about 30
squares and I helped one other pull a tape around the house and he said
29 squared. They were here after the satalitte man.
About 8 Mexicans showed up and the head man just looked at the shingles
that had been dropped off the day before and said he did not think there
were enough. At the end of the day he and I were right.


I did not put out bids two years ago and hired the guy that had done my
roof 25 years ago. I did request his bid and from others had a good
idea what to expect and got a great bid. I got 30 year shingles as they
will outlast me. As a contractor there were changes I had not
anticipated like subbing the bulk of the work to a Hispanic crew. I
also had him do new gutters and downspouts and he did a great job.
Unlike the first time he did my roof which was the second one, it was a
tear off and took a few days vs just one day for the second roof. He
also pointed out a couple of slightly low spots due to rafters and
recommended that since they were hardly noticeable and just cosmetic it
was not worthwhile to fix them.

On 2/14/20 10:01 AM, Jack Legg Roofing LLC wrote:
On 2/14/20 9:23 AM, micky wrote:
I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Have you considered calling Jasper Roofing for a quote?
I don't have their number handy but they're located next door to Jasper Towing.


Is Jasper Roofing CertainTeed SELECT ShingleMaster Credentialed?

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 8:23:15 AM UTC-6, micky wrote:
I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

The shingles are still very good. One plywood sheet is sagging an inch
at the top. The recommended repair is just the ridge rail, the fan, one
sheet of plywood, and the shingles above it. Why not just repair it and
then replace the whole roof in 5 or 10 years. (The roof is 13 years old
now) (Shingles used to patch it likely won't perfectly match what's
there now, and though I don't spend much time looking at roofs, I don't
recall anyone else here with unmatched shingles, and I don't rmember it
being a violation of any HOA rule.)

Is there any problem mixing 1/2" plywood with 3/8"? Will it look
funny from the ground? I think it has 3/8" now, going back to 1979.
(It's not the problematic fire-resistant.)

Is there a point to putting shingles over the ridge vent? Does it make
a plastic ridge vent last appreciably longer?

One roofer is suggesting architectural shingles.
Are they made out of a different material or are they just thicker?
Their shape, alternate wide and narrow, will clash with my next-door
attached townhouse (and every house in the n'hood.) Would any of you
care about that?
He says it's guaranteed for 50 years, transferrable to next owner. Is
that as good as it sounds, or will the next roofer say the warranty is
void** because the plywood is soft after 70 years (most of it is 40
years old now and 30 years from now, long before the 50 year warranty is
over, it will be 70 years old.) **OR, the warranty is good but it
doesn't matter because we have to rip off the warranted shingles to
replace the plywood and we can't reuse the shingles.


Is there a problem using a roof fan that is larger than necessary?
Any experience with the GAF fan that has WiFi/Bluetooth remote control?
Is it of any use? I have full width soffitt vents in the front and back
of a townhouse.
(Let's not do one more round of telling me I don't need a roof fan.
Every time I mention the fan, people claim I don't need it but my
experience is different, my mind is made up, and by now it's just
annoying.)

Given that you are in a townhome development with rules and regulations, make sure to check that you aren't restricted on type or color of roofing that is allowed.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Another question has come up.

It seems the original roof had 3/8" plywood and one roofer wants to
patch it with some sheets of 1/2" plywood, which he says is better.

The other roofer says it will leave valleys that water will collect in,
and that's bad.

I can certainly see if the thicker stuff is below the thinner stuff,
there would be a 1/8" dip, at an angle** which makes the dip a little
less, and a bit of water would sit there until it evaporated or sunk in,
but isn't the roof supposed to be waterproof?

**Roof is 2:5 I think. Prefab trusses.

Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.

So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.

Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?

If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?

On 2/16/2020 12:43 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Another question has come up.

It seems the original roof had 3/8" plywood and one roofer wants to
patch it with some sheets of 1/2" plywood, which he says is better.

The other roofer says it will leave valleys that water will collect in,
and that's bad.

I can certainly see if the thicker stuff is below the thinner stuff,
there would be a 1/8" dip, at an angle** which makes the dip a little
less, and a bit of water would sit there until it evaporated or sunk in,
but isn't the roof supposed to be waterproof?

**Roof is 2:5 I think. Prefab trusses.

Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?

Sure, 1/2" is better and they probably have a hundred sheets in the shop
but have no 3/8". I never would have though the 1/8 would be noticeable
once the shingles are down but I'm not an expert on it. I'd not do it
for ceramic tile though.

On 2/16/2020 12:51 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.

So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.

Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?

If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?

Can't say for sure not seeing it. Sometimes, taking apart the old,
straightening or cleaning it is more time and cost than just going with
new. Not worth quibbling over $50 in material on a big job. Go new and
be secure with it.

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:51:03 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.
So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.
Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?
If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?


This is becoming quite the soap opera !
I hope you post a few photos when the job is all done -
showing the mis-matched shingles over the mis-matched plywood
with the mis-matched gutter & downspout ...
Any _one_ of these _might_ be forgiven on the rear of
a townhouse .. done by a DIY'er .. but ...
most decent contractors don't want to have their trucks
visable at an ugly hack-job.
.... unless you're hiring the cut-rate contractor who doesn't
have his business name or number on his truck ?
John T.

Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?

Sure, 1/2" is better and they probably have a hundred sheets in the shop
but have no 3/8". I never would have though the 1/8 would be noticeable
once the shingles are down but I'm not an expert on it. I'd not do it
for ceramic tile though.



I helped a guy re-shingle his pre-fab home -
- many years ago - the early cheapo days for pre-fab -
- the sheathing was very thin - we soon learned to step carefully
onto the truss/supports - if accidently stepping between -
it was a big fear of putting your boot through the roof !
... didn't happen to any of us - but a very uncomfortable feeling !
Black shingles on a scorching hot sunny day - leaving our
boot-prints in the new shingles .. half the ball team working -
... the owner probably spent more on beer & burgers than he
saved on labour.
John T.

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:43:46 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Another question has come up.

It seems the original roof had 3/8" plywood and one roofer wants to
patch it with some sheets of 1/2" plywood, which he says is better.

The other roofer says it will leave valleys that water will collect in,
and that's bad.

I can certainly see if the thicker stuff is below the thinner stuff,
there would be a 1/8" dip, at an angle** which makes the dip a little
less, and a bit of water would sit there until it evaporated or sunk in,
but isn't the roof supposed to be waterproof?

**Roof is 2:5 I think. Prefab trusses.

Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?
Thicker above thinner won't cause an issue, but you WILL see it from
the street with 3-tab shingles. With "high def" architectural shingles
the line will virtually dissapear with the new roof installation - but
MAY telegraph through over time.
A roof is supposed to be "highly water resistant" and "weatherproof"
but don't necessarilly count on it to be "waterproof" as in being able
to hold standing water like a pail or a swimming pool.

How many sheets of plywood would it take to do the complete street
side of the roof? I'd be sorely tempted to replace the whole face
with 1/2 inch. I know I'll never put 3/8" plywood - or anything other
than fir - roof decking on anything bigger than a dog-house again
after the issues Ihad on my shed roof.

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:51:03 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.

So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.

Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?

If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?
The labour to save and re-use the old stuff will go a long ways
towards replacing with new.

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:51:49 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/16/2020 12:43 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Another question has come up.

It seems the original roof had 3/8" plywood and one roofer wants to
patch it with some sheets of 1/2" plywood, which he says is better.

The other roofer says it will leave valleys that water will collect in,
and that's bad.

I can certainly see if the thicker stuff is below the thinner stuff,
there would be a 1/8" dip, at an angle** which makes the dip a little
less, and a bit of water would sit there until it evaporated or sunk in,
but isn't the roof supposed to be waterproof?

**Roof is 2:5 I think. Prefab trusses.

Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?

Sure, 1/2" is better and they probably have a hundred sheets in the shop
but have no 3/8". I never would have though the 1/8 would be noticeable
once the shingles are down but I'm not an expert on it. I'd not do it
for ceramic tile though.
I'd never put ceramic tile over 3/8 - but wouldn't the thinset
compensate for 1/8"??? When I put in the ceramic in the foyer I used
Ditra with modified thinset and 1/8 inch would not even have been
visible

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 15:15:24 -0500, wrote:



Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?

Sure, 1/2" is better and they probably have a hundred sheets in the shop
but have no 3/8". I never would have though the 1/8 would be noticeable
once the shingles are down but I'm not an expert on it. I'd not do it
for ceramic tile though.



I helped a guy re-shingle his pre-fab home -
- many years ago - the early cheapo days for pre-fab -
- the sheathing was very thin - we soon learned to step carefully
onto the truss/supports - if accidently stepping between -
it was a big fear of putting your boot through the roof !
.. didn't happen to any of us - but a very uncomfortable feeling !
Black shingles on a scorching hot sunny day - leaving our
boot-prints in the new shingles .. half the ball team working -
.. the owner probably spent more on beer & burgers than he
saved on labour.
John T.

My first roof ( at 14) was on 1 inch board sheathing. Black shingles
on a 12:12 in August. I learned about roof jacks on that job. And also
about keeping track of where the board gaps were. Roofing nails going
into air don't hold much - - -

On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 2:55:23 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/16/2020 12:51 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.

So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.

Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?

If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?

Can't say for sure not seeing it. Sometimes, taking apart the old,
straightening or cleaning it is more time and cost than just going with
new. Not worth quibbling over $50 in material on a big job. Go new and
be secure with it.

+1

Without seeing it, who knows. But if a crew has to spend half an hour
trying to straighten out some mangled gutter, it's not worth it. And
then the contractor knows that if they try to fix it, a lot of times
some customers are still not satisfied with how it looks, or blames them
later when the rest comes loose, etc.

On 2/16/2020 5:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:51:49 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/16/2020 12:43 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Another question has come up.

It seems the original roof had 3/8" plywood and one roofer wants to
patch it with some sheets of 1/2" plywood, which he says is better.

The other roofer says it will leave valleys that water will collect in,
and that's bad.

I can certainly see if the thicker stuff is below the thinner stuff,
there would be a 1/8" dip, at an angle** which makes the dip a little
less, and a bit of water would sit there until it evaporated or sunk in,
but isn't the roof supposed to be waterproof?

**Roof is 2:5 I think. Prefab trusses.

Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?

Sure, 1/2" is better and they probably have a hundred sheets in the shop
but have no 3/8". I never would have though the 1/8 would be noticeable
once the shingles are down but I'm not an expert on it. I'd not do it
for ceramic tile though.
I'd never put ceramic tile over 3/8 - but wouldn't the thinset
compensate for 1/8"??? When I put in the ceramic in the foyer I used
Ditra with modified thinset and 1/8 inch would not even have been
visible

An extra layer of roofing felt would probably even it out.

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 15:03:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:51:03 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.
So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.
Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?
If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?


This is becoming quite the soap opera !
I hope you post a few photos when the job is all done -
showing the mis-matched shingles over the mis-matched plywood
with the mis-matched gutter & downspout ...
Any _one_ of these _might_ be forgiven on the rear of
a townhouse .. done by a DIY'er .. but ...
most decent contractors don't want to have their trucks
visable at an ugly hack-job.
... unless you're hiring the cut-rate contractor who doesn't
have his business name or number on his truck ?
John T.


Years ago a neighbor hired some folks to remodel his kitchen and they
showed up every day in a Penske rental truck. He was just glad they showed
up. I don't know how the job turned out.

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 11:43:32 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 15:03:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:51:03 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.
So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.
Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?
If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?


This is becoming quite the soap opera !
I hope you post a few photos when the job is all done -
showing the mis-matched shingles over the mis-matched plywood
with the mis-matched gutter & downspout ...
Any _one_ of these _might_ be forgiven on the rear of
a townhouse .. done by a DIY'er .. but ...
most decent contractors don't want to have their trucks
visable at an ugly hack-job.
... unless you're hiring the cut-rate contractor who doesn't
have his business name or number on his truck ?
John T.


Years ago a neighbor hired some folks to remodel his kitchen and they
showed up every day in a Penske rental truck. He was just glad they showed
up. I don't know how the job turned out.
I know of several respected companies that were forced to use rental
trucks for a few crews when things got busy - didn't make sence to buy
another couple of trucks for what was expected to be a short surge in
business - or one who's truck was tied ujp for a few months due to
damage to the truck that could not be quickly repaired.

Then there's the guys who buy used trucks at auction and don't get
around to getting them painted for a year or two - - -

In article ,
says...

Then there's the guys who buy used trucks at auction and don't get
around to getting them painted for a year or two - - -



Like a two man plumbing operation I used about 10 years ago. They
bought an old ambulance , the big box looking thing. The lights and
some of the emblems had been stripped off, but it was not painted or
anything. The did a very good job of replacing all the old copper pipe
with the pex or whatever.

A few months ago a very nice looking van pulled up with a man in a nice
uniform to give an estiment on a water heater replacement. It was $
1800 . I hired another that 2 men in regular jeenes and shirts pulled
up in an unmarked pickup. They replaced it for $ 950.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 16 Feb 2020 17:29:10 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:43:46 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Another question has come up.

It seems the original roof had 3/8" plywood and one roofer wants to
patch it with some sheets of 1/2" plywood, which he says is better.

The other roofer says it will leave valleys that water will collect in,
and that's bad.

I can certainly see if the thicker stuff is below the thinner stuff,
there would be a 1/8" dip, at an angle** which makes the dip a little
less, and a bit of water would sit there until it evaporated or sunk in,
but isn't the roof supposed to be waterproof?

**Roof is 2:5 I think. Prefab trusses.

Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?
Thicker above thinner won't cause an issue, but you WILL see it from
the street with 3-tab shingles. With "high def" architectural shingles
the line will virtually dissapear with the new roof installation - but
MAY telegraph through over time.
A roof is supposed to be "highly water resistant" and "weatherproof"
but don't necessarilly count on it to be "waterproof" as in being able
to hold standing water like a pail or a swimming pool.

How many sheets of plywood would it take to do the complete street
side of the roof?

15 at $65/sheet for CDX plywood. $975

Street side, that is, just for appearance?

I'd be sorely tempted to replace the whole face
with 1/2 inch. I know I'll never put 3/8" plywood - or anything other
than fir - roof decking on anything bigger than a dog-house again
after the issues Ihad on my shed roof.

What issues on the shed?.

Here it did pretty well the first 39 years.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 16 Feb 2020 15:03:49 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:51:03 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.
So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.
Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?
If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?

I don't think I t hought to ask the other 2 about the gutters, but the
guy above wants $495 to replace all the gutters and downspouts, just 45
feet total of gutters and 2 downspouts.

When AFAICT, I need only 22 feet of gutters, two gutter screws, and no
downspouts. $300 to 350 less.

I haven't checked yet if the downspout screws are really rusting.


This is becoming quite the soap opera !
I hope you post a few photos when the job is all done -
showing the mis-matched shingles over the mis-matched plywood
with the mis-matched gutter & downspout ...
Any _one_ of these _might_ be forgiven on the rear of
a townhouse .. done by a DIY'er .. but ...
most decent contractors don't want to have their trucks
visable at an ugly hack-job.
... unless you're hiring the cut-rate contractor who doesn't
have his business name or number on his truck ?
John T.


Thse are all reputable places. One has 4.5 stars, one 4.9, on many
reviews.

And I've looked at there negative reviews and they're not serious.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:30:35 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 11:43:32 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 15:03:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:51:03 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.
So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.
Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?
If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?


This is becoming quite the soap opera !
I hope you post a few photos when the job is all done -
showing the mis-matched shingles over the mis-matched plywood
with the mis-matched gutter & downspout ...
Any _one_ of these _might_ be forgiven on the rear of
a townhouse .. done by a DIY'er .. but ...
most decent contractors don't want to have their trucks
visable at an ugly hack-job.
... unless you're hiring the cut-rate contractor who doesn't
have his business name or number on his truck ?
John T.


Years ago a neighbor hired some folks to remodel his kitchen and they
showed up every day in a Penske rental truck. He was just glad they showed
up. I don't know how the job turned out.
I know of several respected companies that were forced to use rental
trucks for a few crews when things got busy - didn't make sence to buy
another couple of trucks for what was expected to be a short surge in
business - or one who's truck was tied ujp for a few months due to
damage to the truck that could not be quickly repaired.

Then there's the guys who buy used trucks at auction and don't get
around to getting them painted for a year or two - - -

When my friend was starting out in alarms, he bought used trucks, which
he had painted or vinyled. He must have satisfied his customers because
now he buys new trucks. He gives annual leave and health insurance and
still had trouble getting good workers even when unemployment was
higher. I haven't asked about that topic lately.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 16 Feb 2020 17:31:04 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:51:03 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a

Actually I know now. When a couple gutter spikes came loose, I replaced
all the ones on the right with gutter screws. And that half is still
fine. But because of a tree and the deck, I couldn't get the ladder on
the left half and didn't replace them.

Then I asked the previous roofer to do it, and he did but must have been
kneeling or lying on his belly at the edge of the roof. Because I
looked at the screws he put in and based on what is almost shiny because
it was in the wood, and what is not, he barely got the screws in the
wood. Each screw is different but the 3 or 4 I could see were not in
well. That's the side that fell down.

lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.

So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.

Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?

If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?
The labour to save and re-use the old stuff will go a long ways
towards replacing with new.

But wrt the gutters, there is no labor to save the downspouts. They're
right there where they've always been.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 16 Feb 2020 19:45:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/16/2020 5:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:51:49 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/16/2020 12:43 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Another question has come up.

It seems the original roof had 3/8" plywood and one roofer wants to
patch it with some sheets of 1/2" plywood, which he says is better.

The other roofer says it will leave valleys that water will collect in,
and that's bad.

I can certainly see if the thicker stuff is below the thinner stuff,
there would be a 1/8" dip, at an angle** which makes the dip a little
less, and a bit of water would sit there until it evaporated or sunk in,
but isn't the roof supposed to be waterproof?

**Roof is 2:5 I think. Prefab trusses.

Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?

Sure, 1/2" is better and they probably have a hundred sheets in the shop
but have no 3/8". I never would have though the 1/8 would be noticeable
once the shingles are down but I'm not an expert on it. I'd not do it
for ceramic tile though.
I'd never put ceramic tile over 3/8 - but wouldn't the thinset
compensate for 1/8"??? When I put in the ceramic in the foyer I used
Ditra with modified thinset and 1/8 inch would not even have been
visible

An extra layer of roofing felt would probably even it out.

Both guys that saw my roof are planning to use Owens Corning Pro-Armor
synthetic underlayment (or the GAF equivalent) under architectural
shingles.

That's better than felt, but not thick enough to hide a plywood
thickness change, right?

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:39:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 2:55:23 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/16/2020 12:51 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.

So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.

Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?

If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?

Can't say for sure not seeing it. Sometimes, taking apart the old,
straightening or cleaning it is more time and cost than just going with
new. Not worth quibbling over $50 in material on a big job. Go new and
be secure with it.

+1

Without seeing it, who knows. But if a crew has to spend half an hour
trying to straighten out some mangled gutter, it's not worth it. And

No one has ever suggested straighting out the mangled gutter.

I need the rear gutter. The issue is the front and the downspouts

then the contractor knows that if they try to fix it, a lot of times
some customers are still not satisfied with how it looks, or blames them
later when the rest comes loose, etc.

I'm sure, but I'm a big boy and I won't blame them when ever the rest
comes loose.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:51:03 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot and is not resusable, but the downspout is good. In the front, the
last two feet are sagging and need one or two gutter screws.

And one gutter has fallen down (for reasons I could explain) and bent a
lot AND IS NOT REUSABLE, TRADER.


So one roofer says he wants to replace the whole thing, at least in the
back, because they're rusting. I say, it's aluminum. He says the
screws are rusting. That would have to be the screws for the one
downspout, which show no visible signs of coming loose. I haven't
looked to see if the heads are rusty but I don't think he did either.

Because he didn't get closer than 30 feet away.

Even if he uses a different brand of gutter, there is no problem
connecting new gutter to an existing aluminum downspout, is there?

If an aluminum downspout lasted 40 years, any reason it can't last
another 40?

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 19:16:47 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 16 Feb 2020 17:29:10 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:43:46 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:23:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I need a new roof, or a repair of the old one.

Another question has come up.

It seems the original roof had 3/8" plywood and one roofer wants to
patch it with some sheets of 1/2" plywood, which he says is better.

The other roofer says it will leave valleys that water will collect in,
and that's bad.

I can certainly see if the thicker stuff is below the thinner stuff,
there would be a 1/8" dip, at an angle** which makes the dip a little
less, and a bit of water would sit there until it evaporated or sunk in,
but isn't the roof supposed to be waterproof?

**Roof is 2:5 I think. Prefab trusses.

Will every replacement sheet of plywood be noticeable from the street,
two stories down, because plywood is 1/8" thicker. Should they use
3/8th to patch 3/8ths?
Thicker above thinner won't cause an issue, but you WILL see it from
the street with 3-tab shingles. With "high def" architectural shingles
the line will virtually dissapear with the new roof installation - but
MAY telegraph through over time.
A roof is supposed to be "highly water resistant" and "weatherproof"
but don't necessarilly count on it to be "waterproof" as in being able
to hold standing water like a pail or a swimming pool.

How many sheets of plywood would it take to do the complete street
side of the roof?

15 at $65/sheet for CDX plywood. $975

Street side, that is, just for appearance?

I'd be sorely tempted to replace the whole face
with 1/2 inch. I know I'll never put 3/8" plywood - or anything other
than fir - roof decking on anything bigger than a dog-house again
after the issues Ihad on my shed roof.

What issues on the shed?.

Here it did pretty well the first 39 years.
It bowed and buckled between the rafters so much it looked like lake
superior. I put 1/2 inch fir over top - strapped and shimmed and now
it is straight again.

Minor to moderate roof repairs can be done using EPDM Liquid Rubber. However, roof with multiple failing rafters, damaged shingles or trusses signify a serious underlying problem. In this case, it may be best to consider a full roof replacement.

On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:57:33 AM UTC-5, peter bivens wrote:
Minor to moderate roof repairs can be done using EPDM Liquid Rubber. However, roof with multiple failing rafters, damaged shingles or trusses signify a serious underlying problem. In this case, it may be best to consider a full roof replacement.

Repair a shingle roof with liquid rubber?

On 1/7/2021 10:00 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:57:33 AM UTC-5, peter bivens wrote:
Minor to moderate roof repairs can be done using EPDM Liquid Rubber. However, roof with multiple failing rafters, damaged shingles or trusses signify a serious underlying problem. In this case, it may be best to consider a full roof replacement.

Repair a shingle roof with liquid rubber?


Sure, just brush it on. Not only does it stop the leaks but your house
will be the most noticed on the block too! Often used to replace the
blue tarps.

On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 13:35:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 1/7/2021 10:00 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:57:33 AM UTC-5, peter bivens wrote:
Minor to moderate roof repairs can be done using EPDM Liquid Rubber. However, roof with multiple failing rafters, damaged shingles or trusses signify a serious underlying problem. In this case, it may be best to consider a full roof replacement.

Repair a shingle roof with liquid rubber?


Sure, just brush it on. Not only does it stop the leaks but your house
will be the most noticed on the block too! Often used to replace the
blue tarps.

Flex Seal ?

--
Tekkie

On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 16:43:28 -0500, Tekkie© wrote:


On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 13:35:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 1/7/2021 10:00 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:57:33 AM UTC-5, peter bivens wrote:
Minor to moderate roof repairs can be done using EPDM Liquid Rubber. However, roof with multiple failing rafters, damaged shingles or trusses signify a serious underlying problem. In this case, it may be best to consider a full roof replacement.

Repair a shingle roof with liquid rubber?


Sure, just brush it on. Not only does it stop the leaks but your house
will be the most noticed on the block too! Often used to replace the
blue tarps.

Flex Seal ?
It's an improvement on those tar paper shacks and "redneck bungalows"
scattered across "red" america