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Styrofoam
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:52:20 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: writes: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:49:17 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:04:13 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:51:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 1/15/2020 11:14 AM, Larry wrote: On 1/15/20 10:02 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: Break it up to fit a small bag.ﾃム堙つ* I'd stop for a taco.ﾃム堙つ* Most every fast food has a trash can outside for your remnants of lunch, toss it in on the way out of the parking lot.ﾃム堙つ*ﾃム堙つ* Same with the vac at the car wash or the gas station. Technically it may be illegal but not as blatant as filling a dumpster. Great tip from a democrat on how to make someone else pay for trash disposal. I didn't see your idea posted. Did I happen to miss it? Mine was "bury it". I bet out in the boonies like that he has a machine or knows someone who does. Use the bucket to compress it as much as you can and bury it. Environmentally, you are "sequestering carbon". That is supposed to be a good thing. Sure. Bury it. The styrene monomers and other chemicals leech into the groundwater and your kids drink it. Good idea. That stuff is pretty stable ... for 10,000 years if you believe the hype. That is why it is used so much for food containers and coffee cups. Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it. Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Hot coffee is releasing toxins that will kill us all! Ban those cheap coolers for food. Won't someone please think of the children? It certainly wouldn't bother me. Some restaurants hereabouts already have switched to coated cardboard for both takeout coffee and leftovers, even soup to go in cardboard. The most styrofoam I see is when we buy some sort of electronic thing. We easily could cut way back on styrofoam use, and keep it for occasions when it really is the only thing for the job. Cindy Hamilton |
Styrofoam
On 1/16/2020 2:00 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:52:20 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: writes: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:49:17 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:04:13 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:51:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 1/15/2020 11:14 AM, Larry wrote: On 1/15/20 10:02 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: Break it up to fit a small bag.ﾃム堙つ* I'd stop for a taco.ﾃム堙つ* Most every fast food has a trash can outside for your remnants of lunch, toss it in on the way out of the parking lot.ﾃム堙つ*ﾃム堙つ* Same with the vac at the car wash or the gas station. Technically it may be illegal but not as blatant as filling a dumpster. Great tip from a democrat on how to make someone else pay for trash disposal. I didn't see your idea posted. Did I happen to miss it? Mine was "bury it". I bet out in the boonies like that he has a machine or knows someone who does. Use the bucket to compress it as much as you can and bury it. Environmentally, you are "sequestering carbon". That is supposed to be a good thing. Sure. Bury it. The styrene monomers and other chemicals leech into the groundwater and your kids drink it. Good idea. That stuff is pretty stable ... for 10,000 years if you believe the hype. That is why it is used so much for food containers and coffee cups. Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it. Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Hot coffee is releasing toxins that will kill us all! Ban those cheap coolers for food. Won't someone please think of the children? It certainly wouldn't bother me. Some restaurants hereabouts already have switched to coated cardboard for both takeout coffee and leftovers, even soup to go in cardboard. The most styrofoam I see is when we buy some sort of electronic thing. We easily could cut way back on styrofoam use, and keep it for occasions when it really is the only thing for the job. Cindy Hamilton Agreed we should limit use. However coated paper still has some plastic and the paper making process is very environmentally unfriendly. Paper gets recycled back into maybe cardboard but coating may reject recycling. I think that the reason most recycling facilities do not accept polystyrene is the numerous forms it comes in. There are people at the dump that have to cherry pick the stuff that comes in. |
Styrofoam
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? [*] In most states, landfills are required to collect and treat any leachate. |
Styrofoam
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 2:36:10 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? For reasons similar to the fact that you're ok drinking wine from lead crystal but you shouldn't store it in lead crystal. Exposure over time. Cindy Hamilton |
Styrofoam
On 1/16/2020 2:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Because it has been on the GRAS list for years and has not caused any problems. I've been in that industry for 45 years and never heard of anyone exposed to the material having any side effects from it. We also accepted non food material for recycling. It was nearly free, just some cost to grind it. The only problem with recycling is the cost of getting to to the user. It is cheap and bulky. A couple of local appliance dealers would bring it every couple of weeks. That made sense but to take an 8 ounce piece to our plant and burn a gallon of gas to do it does not. For decades it has been ground to be used by some farmers as a soil aerator. That started in Europe. You sometimes find it mixed in potting soil. |
Styrofoam
On 1/16/2020 3:10 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 2:36:10 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? For reasons similar to the fact that you're ok drinking wine from lead crystal but you shouldn't store it in lead crystal. Exposure over time. Cindy Hamilton Easy enough to find FDA approval for polystyrene contacting food: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scrip...fm?fr=177.1640 Polystyrene is a poor choice as a food container, e.g. a wine bottle because of poor oxygen permeability: http://www.alphap.com/bottle-basics/...ison-chart.php I just had to toss a 10 year old bottle of wine with a synthetic cork. It was turning to vinegar. Never seen this with a natural cork although they do breathe. |
Styrofoam
On 1/16/2020 3:25 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/16/2020 2:36 PM, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent.ﾂ* The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely.ﾂ*ﾂ* It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Because it has been on the GRAS list for years and has not caused any problems.ﾂ* I've been in that industry for 45 years and never heard of anyone exposed to the material having any side effects from it. We also accepted non food material for recycling.ﾂ* It was nearly free, just some cost to grind it.ﾂ* The only problem with recycling is the cost of getting to to the user.ﾂ* It is cheap and bulky.ﾂ* A couple of local appliance dealers would bring it every couple of weeks.ﾂ* That made sense but to take an 8 ounce piece to our plant and burn a gallon of gas to do it does not. For decades it has been ground to be used by some farmers as a soil aerator.ﾂ* That started in Europe.ﾂ* You sometimes find it mixed in potting soil. I don't see it on the GRAS list: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...#se21.3.182_11 but pointed elsewhere where it is approved for food contact. It is possible there are grades unacceptable for food contact because they contain an ingredient, e.g. a dye, not approved for food contact. |
Styrofoam
trader_4 writes:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. |
Styrofoam
Ed Pawlowski writes:
On 1/16/2020 2:36 PM, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Because it has been on the GRAS list for years and has not caused any problems. I've been in that industry for 45 years and never heard of anyone exposed to the material having any side effects from it. We also accepted non food material for recycling. It was nearly free, just some cost to grind it. The only problem with recycling is the cost of getting to to the user. It is cheap and bulky. A couple of local appliance dealers would bring it every couple of weeks. That made sense but to take an 8 ounce piece to our plant and burn a gallon of gas to do it does not. For decades it has been ground to be used by some farmers as a soil aerator. That started in Europe. You sometimes find it mixed in potting soil. Are you sure you're not confusing it with Vermiculite? |
Styrofoam
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 11:00:24 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:52:20 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: writes: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:49:17 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:04:13 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:51:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 1/15/2020 11:14 AM, Larry wrote: On 1/15/20 10:02 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: Break it up to fit a small bag.ﾃム堙つ* I'd stop for a taco.ﾃム堙つ* Most every fast food has a trash can outside for your remnants of lunch, toss it in on the way out of the parking lot.ﾃム堙つ*ﾃム堙つ* Same with the vac at the car wash or the gas station. Technically it may be illegal but not as blatant as filling a dumpster. Great tip from a democrat on how to make someone else pay for trash disposal. I didn't see your idea posted. Did I happen to miss it? Mine was "bury it". I bet out in the boonies like that he has a machine or knows someone who does. Use the bucket to compress it as much as you can and bury it. Environmentally, you are "sequestering carbon". That is supposed to be a good thing. Sure. Bury it. The styrene monomers and other chemicals leech into the groundwater and your kids drink it. Good idea. That stuff is pretty stable ... for 10,000 years if you believe the hype. That is why it is used so much for food containers and coffee cups. Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it. Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Hot coffee is releasing toxins that will kill us all! Ban those cheap coolers for food. Won't someone please think of the children? It certainly wouldn't bother me. Some restaurants hereabouts already have switched to coated cardboard for both takeout coffee and leftovers, even soup to go in cardboard. The most styrofoam I see is when we buy some sort of electronic thing. We easily could cut way back on styrofoam use, and keep it for occasions when it really is the only thing for the job. Cindy Hamilton I bet Scott will tell you about the stuff leaching out of the plastic coating in the paper cup too. They are also not particularly recyclable. My waste hauler doesn't want them in the blue bin. They are trash. |
Styrofoam
On 2020-01-16 2:29 p.m., wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 11:00:24 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:52:20 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: writes: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:49:17 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:04:13 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:51:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 1/15/2020 11:14 AM, Larry wrote: On 1/15/20 10:02 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: Break it up to fit a small bag.ﾃム堙つ* I'd stop for a taco.ﾃム堙つ* Most every fast food has a trash can outside for your remnants of lunch, toss it in on the way out of the parking lot.ﾃム堙つ*ﾃム堙つ* Same with the vac at the car wash or the gas station. Technically it may be illegal but not as blatant as filling a dumpster. Great tip from a democrat on how to make someone else pay for trash disposal. I didn't see your idea posted. Did I happen to miss it? Mine was "bury it". I bet out in the boonies like that he has a machine or knows someone who does. Use the bucket to compress it as much as you can and bury it. Environmentally, you are "sequestering carbon". That is supposed to be a good thing. Sure. Bury it. The styrene monomers and other chemicals leech into the groundwater and your kids drink it. Good idea. That stuff is pretty stable ... for 10,000 years if you believe the hype. That is why it is used so much for food containers and coffee cups. Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it. Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Hot coffee is releasing toxins that will kill us all! Ban those cheap coolers for food. Won't someone please think of the children? It certainly wouldn't bother me. Some restaurants hereabouts already have switched to coated cardboard for both takeout coffee and leftovers, even soup to go in cardboard. The most styrofoam I see is when we buy some sort of electronic thing. We easily could cut way back on styrofoam use, and keep it for occasions when it really is the only thing for the job. Cindy Hamilton I bet Scott will tell you about the stuff leaching out of the plastic coating in the paper cup too. They are also not particularly recyclable. My waste hauler doesn't want them in the blue bin. They are trash. give it to the guys that have dog houses |
Styrofoam
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Styrofoam
On 1/16/2020 4:25 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Ed Pawlowski writes: On 1/16/2020 2:36 PM, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Because it has been on the GRAS list for years and has not caused any problems. I've been in that industry for 45 years and never heard of anyone exposed to the material having any side effects from it. We also accepted non food material for recycling. It was nearly free, just some cost to grind it. The only problem with recycling is the cost of getting to to the user. It is cheap and bulky. A couple of local appliance dealers would bring it every couple of weeks. That made sense but to take an 8 ounce piece to our plant and burn a gallon of gas to do it does not. For decades it has been ground to be used by some farmers as a soil aerator. That started in Europe. You sometimes find it mixed in potting soil. Are you sure you're not confusing it with Vermiculite? If I meant vermiculite I would have said vermiculite. I sold truck loads of the ground EPS material to nurseries and farmers. |
Styrofoam
On 01/16/2020 03:01 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 21:25:16 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: Ed Pawlowski writes: On 1/16/2020 2:36 PM, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Because it has been on the GRAS list for years and has not caused any problems. I've been in that industry for 45 years and never heard of anyone exposed to the material having any side effects from it. We also accepted non food material for recycling. It was nearly free, just some cost to grind it. The only problem with recycling is the cost of getting to to the user. It is cheap and bulky. A couple of local appliance dealers would bring it every couple of weeks. That made sense but to take an 8 ounce piece to our plant and burn a gallon of gas to do it does not. For decades it has been ground to be used by some farmers as a soil aerator. That started in Europe. You sometimes find it mixed in potting soil. Are you sure you're not confusing it with Vermiculite? No I have seen lots of potting soil with balls of styrofoam in it. It looks just like what you get when you crumble up a cheap cooler The cheap potting soils may have EPS. The better brands have perlite which looks a lot like ground EPS and is easily told from vermiculite. I don't know if vermiculite is back in favor. A lot came from the mine in Libby, MT and contained asbestos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libby,...rmiculite_mine Did wonders for real estate values.. |
Styrofoam
On 01/16/2020 02:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. They made a line of EPS disposable plates as well as clamshell containers for McDonald's. They literally bought CFC's by the railway tanker for the blowing agent. I was long gone by the time the industry moved to HFC's. They were better for ozone depletion but still had a high GWP. (global warming potential). Now they're looking at hydrofluroolefins which have a very short life in the atmosphere. They are more expensive of course. Shipping was a problem that I don't believe was ever solved. Rather than essentially moving air around the country, some way to create the foam product at the point of use would be ideal. |
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Styrofoam
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:37:53 -0700, rbowman
wrote: On 01/16/2020 02:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. They made a line of EPS disposable plates as well as clamshell containers for McDonald's. They literally bought CFC's by the railway tanker for the blowing agent. I was long gone by the time the industry moved to HFC's. They were better for ozone depletion but still had a high GWP. (global warming potential). Now they're looking at hydrofluroolefins which have a very short life in the atmosphere. They are more expensive of course. Shipping was a problem that I don't believe was ever solved. Rather than essentially moving air around the country, some way to create the foam product at the point of use would be ideal. They still sell a lot of foam plates, cups and bowls at the grocery store and buyer's clubs so they are far from going away. Restaurants still use the big white clamshells too. I agree shipping must be a big part of the cost. Even nested tightly together, you are still shipping a lot of air. |
Styrofoam
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:25:56 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/16/2020 2:36 PM, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Because it has been on the GRAS list for years and has not caused any problems. I've been in that industry for 45 years and never heard of anyone exposed to the material having any side effects from it. We also accepted non food material for recycling. It was nearly free, just some cost to grind it. The only problem with recycling is the cost of getting to to the user. It is cheap and bulky. A couple of local appliance dealers would bring it every couple of weeks. That made sense but to take an 8 ounce piece to our plant and burn a gallon of gas to do it does not. For decades it has been ground to be used by some farmers as a soil aerator. That started in Europe. You sometimes find it mixed in potting soil. In place of vermiculite |
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Styrofoam
On 1/16/2020 9:59 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:37:53 -0700, rbowman wrote: On 01/16/2020 02:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:52:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it.=20 =20 Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Surely disposing of them properly (e.g. recycling or landfill[*]) is sufficient. The point was that if they are toxic, they emit dangerous substances, then why are we drinking hot beverages from them? Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. They made a line of EPS disposable plates as well as clamshell containers for McDonald's. They literally bought CFC's by the railway tanker for the blowing agent. I was long gone by the time the industry moved to HFC's. They were better for ozone depletion but still had a high GWP. (global warming potential). Now they're looking at hydrofluroolefins which have a very short life in the atmosphere. They are more expensive of course. Shipping was a problem that I don't believe was ever solved. Rather than essentially moving air around the country, some way to create the foam product at the point of use would be ideal. They still sell a lot of foam plates, cups and bowls at the grocery store and buyer's clubs so they are far from going away. Restaurants still use the big white clamshells too. I agree shipping must be a big part of the cost. Even nested tightly together, you are still shipping a lot of air. They got rid of the HFCs in the plates. The bead foam in cups and packaging never had HFCs. As for shipping, most of those products are class 300 or class 400 so yes, it is expensive to move it. Many small regional manufacturing plants. |
lowbrowman, Birdbrain's eternal senile whore!
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:09:48 -0700, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again: The cheap potting soils may have EPS. The better brands have perlite which looks a lot like ground EPS and is easily told from vermiculite. I trust that our endlessly blathering senile farmer boy knows something about this. |
lowbrowman, Birdbrain's eternal senile whore!
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:37:53 -0700, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again: https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. Oh, no! Not yet another lengthy senile bull**** story! tsk |
lowbrowman, Birdbrain's eternal senile whore!
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:48:27 -0700, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again: Sadly, they are very recyclable but there is no infrastructure to handle it. When I worked for Sweetheart Oh, no! Not yet again! LOL |
Styrofoam
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 4:29:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 11:00:24 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:52:20 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote: On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 11:20:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: writes: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:49:17 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:04:13 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: writes: On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:51:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 1/15/2020 11:14 AM, Larry wrote: On 1/15/20 10:02 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: Break it up to fit a small bag.ﾃム堙つ* I'd stop for a taco.ﾃム堙つ* Most every fast food has a trash can outside for your remnants of lunch, toss it in on the way out of the parking lot.ﾃム堙つ*ﾃム堙つ* Same with the vac at the car wash or the gas station. Technically it may be illegal but not as blatant as filling a dumpster. Great tip from a democrat on how to make someone else pay for trash disposal. I didn't see your idea posted. Did I happen to miss it? Mine was "bury it". I bet out in the boonies like that he has a machine or knows someone who does. Use the bucket to compress it as much as you can and bury it. Environmentally, you are "sequestering carbon". That is supposed to be a good thing. Sure. Bury it. The styrene monomers and other chemicals leech into the groundwater and your kids drink it. Good idea. That stuff is pretty stable ... for 10,000 years if you believe the hype. That is why it is used so much for food containers and coffee cups. Don't confuse the amount of time that it takes to completely degrade (which is 500 years for styrofoam) with the time it takes to start leaching benzine and other chemicals which happens over the entire time period it is buried. That 500 years assumes UV from the sun is hitting it. Irrelevent. The material doesn't wait 500 years then suddenly decompose completely. It decomposes over the entire period releasing toxins the entire time. Then ban those dangerous styrofoam beverage cups! Hot coffee is releasing toxins that will kill us all! Ban those cheap coolers for food. Won't someone please think of the children? It certainly wouldn't bother me. Some restaurants hereabouts already have switched to coated cardboard for both takeout coffee and leftovers, even soup to go in cardboard. The most styrofoam I see is when we buy some sort of electronic thing. We easily could cut way back on styrofoam use, and keep it for occasions when it really is the only thing for the job. Cindy Hamilton I bet Scott will tell you about the stuff leaching out of the plastic coating in the paper cup too. They are also not particularly recyclable. My waste hauler doesn't want them in the blue bin. They are trash. How about it leaching out of the potting soil. Will somebody please think of the plants? They are being forced to consume polluted water. |
Styrofoam
rbowman writes:
On 01/16/2020 02:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. They made a line of EPS disposable plates as well as clamshell containers for McDonald's. They literally bought CFC's by the railway tanker for the blowing agent. I was long gone by the time the industry moved to HFC's. They were better for ozone depletion but still had a high GWP. (global warming potential). Now they're looking at hydrofluroolefins which have a very short life in the atmosphere. They are more expensive of course. Shipping was a problem that I don't believe was ever solved. Rather than essentially moving air around the country, some way to create the foam product at the point of use would be ideal. Or just use reusable drinking glasses/travel mugs/et alia and forgo the disposables. |
Styrofoam
writes:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:37:53 -0700, rbowman wrote: Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. They made a line of EPS disposable plates as well as clamshell containers for McDonald's. They literally bought CFC's by the railway tanker for the blowing agent. I was long gone by the time the industry moved to HFC's. They were better for ozone depletion but still had a high GWP. (global warming potential). Now they're looking at hydrofluroolefins which have a very short life in the atmosphere. They are more expensive of course. Shipping was a problem that I don't believe was ever solved. Rather than essentially moving air around the country, some way to create the foam product at the point of use would be ideal. They still sell a lot of foam plates, cups and bowls at the grocery store and buyer's clubs so they are far from going away. Restaurants still use the big white clamshells too. That depends on where you live. You won't find them in stores in the major metropolitan areas of California, for example. Paper and plastic, yes, styrofoam not so much. Particularly for restaurants which use the corn starch based compostable versions. |
Styrofoam
On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 15:27:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote: rbowman writes: On 01/16/2020 02:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: trader_4 writes: Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. They made a line of EPS disposable plates as well as clamshell containers for McDonald's. They literally bought CFC's by the railway tanker for the blowing agent. I was long gone by the time the industry moved to HFC's. They were better for ozone depletion but still had a high GWP. (global warming potential). Now they're looking at hydrofluroolefins which have a very short life in the atmosphere. They are more expensive of course. Shipping was a problem that I don't believe was ever solved. Rather than essentially moving air around the country, some way to create the foam product at the point of use would be ideal. Or just use reusable drinking glasses/travel mugs/et alia and forgo the disposables. Some day we will be hearing about all the water that is wasted washing these things out. That has been the excuse restaurants have used for years for not giving everyone a glass of water. We are going to run out of potable water long before any of the calamities Al and Greta are whining about. |
Styrofoam
On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 15:29:45 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote: writes: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:37:53 -0700, rbowman wrote: Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. They made a line of EPS disposable plates as well as clamshell containers for McDonald's. They literally bought CFC's by the railway tanker for the blowing agent. I was long gone by the time the industry moved to HFC's. They were better for ozone depletion but still had a high GWP. (global warming potential). Now they're looking at hydrofluroolefins which have a very short life in the atmosphere. They are more expensive of course. Shipping was a problem that I don't believe was ever solved. Rather than essentially moving air around the country, some way to create the foam product at the point of use would be ideal. They still sell a lot of foam plates, cups and bowls at the grocery store and buyer's clubs so they are far from going away. Restaurants still use the big white clamshells too. That depends on where you live. You won't find them in stores in the major metropolitan areas of California, for example. Paper and plastic, yes, styrofoam not so much. Particularly for restaurants which use the corn starch based compostable versions. That doesn't surprise me in California. |
Styrofoam
On 01/17/2020 08:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:37:53 -0700, rbowman wrote: Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. They made a line of EPS disposable plates as well as clamshell containers for McDonald's. They literally bought CFC's by the railway tanker for the blowing agent. I was long gone by the time the industry moved to HFC's. They were better for ozone depletion but still had a high GWP. (global warming potential). Now they're looking at hydrofluroolefins which have a very short life in the atmosphere. They are more expensive of course. Shipping was a problem that I don't believe was ever solved. Rather than essentially moving air around the country, some way to create the foam product at the point of use would be ideal. They still sell a lot of foam plates, cups and bowls at the grocery store and buyer's clubs so they are far from going away. Restaurants still use the big white clamshells too. That depends on where you live. You won't find them in stores in the major metropolitan areas of California, for example. Paper and plastic, yes, styrofoam not so much. Particularly for restaurants which use the corn starch based compostable versions. My last exposure to California major metropolitan areas was in the '90s. |
Styrofoam
On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 19:49:14 -0700, rbowman
wrote: On 01/17/2020 08:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote: writes: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:37:53 -0700, rbowman wrote: Well, I don't. I haven't even seen a styrofoam cup for years now. a few minutes != 500 years, so I don't know why you even ask. See also BPA. https://www.amazon.com/Dart-20J16-Fo.../dp/B004NG8AAY Somebody uses them... There are other problems. I worked for Sweetheart Plastics in the '80s. They made a line of EPS disposable plates as well as clamshell containers for McDonald's. They literally bought CFC's by the railway tanker for the blowing agent. I was long gone by the time the industry moved to HFC's. They were better for ozone depletion but still had a high GWP. (global warming potential). Now they're looking at hydrofluroolefins which have a very short life in the atmosphere. They are more expensive of course. Shipping was a problem that I don't believe was ever solved. Rather than essentially moving air around the country, some way to create the foam product at the point of use would be ideal. They still sell a lot of foam plates, cups and bowls at the grocery store and buyer's clubs so they are far from going away. Restaurants still use the big white clamshells too. That depends on where you live. You won't find them in stores in the major metropolitan areas of California, for example. Paper and plastic, yes, styrofoam not so much. Particularly for restaurants which use the corn starch based compostable versions. My last exposure to California major metropolitan areas was in the '90s. 70s for me (LA and Frisco) but I have been to California a couple times since. I got off the plane and drove out of town for 2 hours immediately. Once you get away from the coast, California is OK. |
lowbrowman, Birdbrain's eternal senile whore!
On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 19:49:14 -0700, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again: My last exposure to California major metropolitan areas was in the '90s. Thanks for that important info, you endlessly gossiping senile Yankie washerwoman! BG |
Styrofoam
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Styrofoam
On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 11:08:28 -0700, rbowman
wrote: On 01/17/2020 09:27 PM, wrote: 70s for me (LA and Frisco) but I have been to California a couple times since. I got off the plane and drove out of town for 2 hours immediately. Once you get away from the coast, California is OK. Quite a few states have that problem. Upstate NY isn't Sodom on the Hudson, western Massachusetts isn't Boston, even New Jersey isn't bad when you get away from Newark and so forth. I spent time in Kingston and Endicott. I understand that. They still have some silly laws. Same with Mass and NJ. |
Styrofoam
On 01/18/2020 11:21 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 11:08:28 -0700, rbowman wrote: On 01/17/2020 09:27 PM, wrote: 70s for me (LA and Frisco) but I have been to California a couple times since. I got off the plane and drove out of town for 2 hours immediately. Once you get away from the coast, California is OK. Quite a few states have that problem. Upstate NY isn't Sodom on the Hudson, western Massachusetts isn't Boston, even New Jersey isn't bad when you get away from Newark and so forth. I spent time in Kingston and Endicott. I understand that. They still have some silly laws. Same with Mass and NJ. That's the problem with the blue state cities wagging the dog. I've got a little different definition of upstate NY and it doesn't include Kingston or the Southern Tier. It starts at the Federal dam on the Hudson at Troy. Gillibrand lied her way into a seat in the 20th district but once she clawed her way into the Senate her true colors came out. |
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