The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do
see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 3:09:49 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

This test is with the light removed? You have one cable, with two conductors
plus a ground wire? By charged, do you mean that you have 120V on
both, or some other, lower voltage? What are you connecting the other
side of the meter to? Ground?






2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do
see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do

I put a dimmer on the dining room light, got interrrupted in the middle
for a long time, then didn't know why the range hood didn't work. The
wire for the range hood came out of the box with the dining room light
switch. Of course the wall was right between the rooms.

You're using a real volt meter, not a neon light or something? The
lightbulb is not in the socket when you are testing the voltage to it?

see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

This is the switch for the light that does not work?

The "two are charged" when the switch is not flipped, but are both
charged when the switch is flipped?

Is there more than one switch controlling the light in hte laundry
room? Not very common but would account for there being 3 wires to the
switch.

Alternate question, are the two that are charged directly conneded
outside the switch, by a continuous piece of copper, or are they
connected inside the switch. (I'm assuming one is connected to the
other and the second one is hot only because it's connected. That's
probably true.)

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do
see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.
The worker damaged the neutral connection somewhere. The "juice" is
getting in, but is not getting out.

On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 1:40:25 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do
see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.
The worker damaged the neutral connection somewhere. The "juice" is
getting in, but is not getting out.

I would agree, IF he's did his testing with the light in the circuit.
But if not, the above does not explain how he says he has TWO wires
that are energized.

On 20/12/19 22:25, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do

I put a dimmer on the dining room light, got interrrupted in the middle
for a long time, then didn't know why the range hood didn't work. The
wire for the range hood came out of the box with the dining room light
switch. Of course the wall was right between the rooms.

You're using a real volt meter, not a neon light or something? The
lightbulb is not in the socket when you are testing the voltage to it?


I used a neon light tester. The light bulb was in the fixture. The light
worked when both the fixture and the light bulb were removed and
connected to another circuit.

see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

This is the switch for the light that does not work?

The "two are charged" when the switch is not flipped, but are both
charged when the switch is flipped?

Yes and yes.



Is there more than one switch controlling the light in hte laundry
room? Not very common but would account for there being 3 wires to the
switch.

No.

Alternate question, are the two that are charged directly conneded
outside the switch, by a continuous piece of copper, or are they
connected inside the switch. (I'm assuming one is connected to the
other and the second one is hot only because it's connected. That's
probably true.)


They are connected directly to the switch, two wires going into one side
of the switch and being tightened by a switch screw, the other going to
the other side of the switch.

On 20/12/19 21:28, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 3:09:49 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

This test is with the light removed? You have one cable, with two conductors
plus a ground wire? By charged, do you mean that you have 120V on
both, or some other, lower voltage? What are you connecting the other
side of the meter to? Ground?


No. Tested when the light tube was in the fixture. There is no ground
wire, no neutral inside the switch box. I used a neon tester.






2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do
see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 09:21:16 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 20/12/19 22:25, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do

I put a dimmer on the dining room light, got interrrupted in the middle
for a long time, then didn't know why the range hood didn't work. The
wire for the range hood came out of the box with the dining room light
switch. Of course the wall was right between the rooms.

You're using a real volt meter, not a neon light or something? The
lightbulb is not in the socket when you are testing the voltage to it?


I used a neon light tester. The light bulb was in the fixture. The light
worked when both the fixture and the light bulb were removed and
connected to another circuit.

see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

This is the switch for the light that does not work?

The "two are charged" when the switch is not flipped, but are both
charged when the switch is flipped?

Yes and yes.



Is there more than one switch controlling the light in hte laundry
room? Not very common but would account for there being 3 wires to the
switch.

No.

Alternate question, are the two that are charged directly conneded
outside the switch, by a continuous piece of copper, or are they
connected inside the switch. (I'm assuming one is connected to the
other and the second one is hot only because it's connected. That's
probably true.)


They are connected directly to the switch, two wires going into one side
of the switch and being tightened by a switch screw, the other going to
the other side of the switch.
Somethin's not right. There should NOT be 2 wires under one screw.
What wires are in the box with the switch - and what colours are on
each screw of the switch?
If there is power on one black wire at the switch, and no power on
either wire at the socket with the bulb removed and the switch off you
should have 1 black wire on each switch screw and 2 white wires
wire-nutted in the switch box.
If you have power on one black wire at the socket with the switch off
and the bulb removed there will be 2 wires (1 black and one white) at
the switch and 4 wires in the box at the light. The blach live wire
will be connected to the white of the other pair. The white of the
"feed" pair will be connected to the silver screw of the socket or the
white wire of the fixture. The black wire of the "dead" or switch pair
connects to the dark screw or the black wire of the fixture. The white
leads to the "shell" of the socket, the black to the center "pin" or
"spring". The two wires at the switch connect to the switch, with the
white wire marked with a black tape, marker, or shrink-tube to
identify it as "HOT". Bare wires are connected to the box at both
locations, and to the freen wire if it exists on the lamp fixture.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 09:35:11 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 20/12/19 21:28, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 3:09:49 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

This test is with the light removed? You have one cable, with two conductors
plus a ground wire? By charged, do you mean that you have 120V on
both, or some other, lower voltage? What are you connecting the other
side of the meter to? Ground?


No. Tested when the light tube was in the fixture. There is no ground
wire, no neutral inside the switch box. I used a neon tester.






2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do
see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

Is this a flourescent lamp? If so you MUST disconnect the black wire
from the fixture before testing - removing the tube does not
accomplish anything short of insuring it won't light. The "ballast"
has to be taken out of the circuit.

Perhaps you should have a qualified electrician working on it - but if
you follow my instructions you WILL get the problem solved and it WILL
be safe and it WILL be "legal".
Where I said "bare
wire in my last post it could also be "green"

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 21 Dec 2019 09:21:16 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 20/12/19 22:25, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do

I put a dimmer on the dining room light, got interrrupted in the middle
for a long time, then didn't know why the range hood didn't work. The
wire for the range hood came out of the box with the dining room light
switch. Of course the wall was right between the rooms.

You're using a real volt meter, not a neon light or something? The
lightbulb is not in the socket when you are testing the voltage to it?


I used a neon light tester.

That's NO GOOD. It can show something as hot that isn't, just because
something nearby is hot. Once you have one mistake in your perception
of things, you'll never figure out the truth.

The light bulb was in the fixture. The light
worked when both the fixture and the light bulb were removed and
connected to another circuit.

So there's nothing wrong with the lightbulb but using neon, you haven't
learned a thing about the socket wires.

You need a VOM, a volt-ohmmeter. HarborFreight has them for 4 or 5
dollars. If that isn't handy, Home Depot has them for 10 or 20.

You're going to have to get a real meter, do all the same measurements,
and if necessary, come back here with useful results.

$10 is a small investment for something this important, considering what
electricians charge, and that a meter can last you 60 or 100 years.

Try to get a package of jumper wires too, with alligator clips on each
end, so that you can connect the black wire from the meter to another
location, such as a ground, and only have to pay attention to the red
proble.

!!! While analog meters, with a moving needle, have an advantage in a
few situations, if you're only going to have one meter, I think digital
is much better and much more useful.

Don't get a battery tester, don't get non-contact.

This, or something that looks like this, only $10:
https://www.amazon.com/WeePro-Vpro85...-search&sr=8-4

Note that there is one set of settings for AC and one for DC. Try to
set things right before touching the leads to the wires. Most meters
have over-voltage protection now but it's good practice, and some day
you may be using a meter without that.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=vom&link_...tag=mozilla-20

The more expensive ones have options you'll probably never use.

Jumper wires, 1000 uses:

https://www.amazon.com/WGGE-WG-026-P...-search&sr=8-4



see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

This is the switch for the light that does not work?

The "two are charged" when the switch is not flipped, but are both
charged when the switch is flipped?

Yes and yes.



Is there more than one switch controlling the light in hte laundry
room? Not very common but would account for there being 3 wires to the
switch.

No.

Alternate question, are the two that are charged directly conneded
outside the switch, by a continuous piece of copper, or are they
connected inside the switch. (I'm assuming one is connected to the
other and the second one is hot only because it's connected. That's
probably true.)


They are connected directly to the switch, two wires going into one side
of the switch and being tightened by a switch screw, the other going to
the other side of the switch.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 21 Dec 2019 09:35:11 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 20/12/19 21:28, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 3:09:49 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

This test is with the light removed? You have one cable, with two conductors
plus a ground wire? By charged, do you mean that you have 120V on
both, or some other, lower voltage? What are you connecting the other
side of the meter to? Ground?


No. Tested when the light tube was in the fixture. There is no ground
wire, no neutral inside the switch box. I used a neon tester.

Clare is probably right. One of the two wires to the lightbulb is a
neutral, but if it is cut somewhere, the voltage comes in through the
hot, goes through the lightbulb and makes the part of the neutral wire
conneecte to the lightbulb hot also.

If you take out the light bulb and especially if you use a real meter,
not a practically worthless neon tester, you'll see that one side of hte
light fixture is dead. Since it is dead**, you can use the ohmmeter
part of the vom to check the resistance between the dead wire and some
other ground. If the neutral wire is cut, the resistance will be
infiniite.

**If you try to measure the resistance between a hot wire and ground,
you may burn out your meter, or even melt parts. But if you do this
often, some day you will mess up. Try not to be standing on a ladder
when you do this.

This is the laundry room. Is it finished, a ceiling?

Did the light used to work? Any work done in the laundry room or nearby
lately? Like drilling, cutting, or sawing?






2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do
see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 9:51:25 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 20/12/19 22:25, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do

I put a dimmer on the dining room light, got interrrupted in the middle
for a long time, then didn't know why the range hood didn't work. The
wire for the range hood came out of the box with the dining room light
switch. Of course the wall was right between the rooms.

You're using a real volt meter, not a neon light or something? The
lightbulb is not in the socket when you are testing the voltage to it?


I used a neon light tester. The light bulb was in the fixture.

That's why both wires tested hot. Looks like the neutral is disconnected.
With the neutral disconnected, no current flows and both sides of the
load will be at the same potential. Since you say just two wires enter
the light, the only way I can see that explains all that you reported is
this. Power comes to fixture A in the other room that was worked on.
From there, a cable goes to the switch that works fixture B, the one
that doesn't work now. One wire of that cable is
connected to incoming power hot at fixture A location. That wire is
connected to one side of the switch, the other wire connects to the other side
of the switch. Back a fixture A, another cable runs over to fixture
B, the one that won't light now. One wire of that cable connects to
the above wire coming from the switch, the other to the neutral. If
that neutral connection was undone at the fixture A location, it
would explain what you are seeing.


The light
worked when both the fixture and the light bulb were removed and
connected to another circuit.

see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

Where do the two wires go? If what I say above is right, one wire from
the side with two wires and the wire from the other side of the switchf
should be in one cable. The other wire? Is there another switch in
that box that it goes too, for example, to power it?


IDK what kind of switch that is, but if it's a simple screw that two
wires are under, that's not allowed. If it's a back stab it can have
two wires, but those really suck and I would not use. If it's the kind
that wires can enter from the back and go under a plate with a screw,
then I think two wires are allowed.

I would investigate the other location where work was just done and
look for a cable that heads over towards the non-working fixture.
Look for a neutral that's not connected. Even if it looks connected,
eg has a wire nut, take it off, make sure they really are twisted
together, etc.






This is the switch for the light that does not work?

The "two are charged" when the switch is not flipped, but are both
charged when the switch is flipped?

Yes and yes.



Is there more than one switch controlling the light in hte laundry
room? Not very common but would account for there being 3 wires to the
switch.

No.

Alternate question, are the two that are charged directly conneded
outside the switch, by a continuous piece of copper, or are they
connected inside the switch. (I'm assuming one is connected to the
other and the second one is hot only because it's connected. That's
probably true.)


They are connected directly to the switch, two wires going into one side
of the switch and being tightened by a switch screw, the other going to
the other side of the switch.

On Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 1:02:46 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 21 Dec 2019 09:35:11 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 20/12/19 21:28, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 3:09:49 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

This test is with the light removed? You have one cable, with two conductors
plus a ground wire? By charged, do you mean that you have 120V on
both, or some other, lower voltage? What are you connecting the other
side of the meter to? Ground?


No. Tested when the light tube was in the fixture. There is no ground
wire, no neutral inside the switch box. I used a neon tester.

Clare is probably right. One of the two wires to the lightbulb is a
neutral, but if it is cut somewhere, the voltage comes in through the
hot, goes through the lightbulb and makes the part of the neutral wire
conneecte to the lightbulb hot also.

If you take out the light bulb and especially if you use a real meter,
not a practically worthless neon tester, you'll see that one side of hte
light fixture is dead.

Actually that problem typically occurs with a VOM with a high impedance.
You could use a $150 Fluke which is a very real meter and see spurious
voltage. You won't see it with an old meter with a needle movement,
because it's not high impedance. I've never seen it with a cheap neon tester
either, they take substantial voltage to light, eg 90V, and do pass
some amount of current, so I think it's unlikely you could get it to
light from spurious voltage due to a nearby cable. The non-contact
type testers could light.

On 12/20/2019 2:09 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do
see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

The most likely is that which Clare noted before; the neutral in the
worked-on box wasn't reconnected.

If you can see the obvious issue there as he suggests, then you're good
to go. If not, since the issue appears to have been caused by the work;
I'd suggest get them back to fix the problem they created.

What was the purpose of their work just out of curiosity (altho that
might have some bearing that might make understanding what happened
simpler from afar).

--

In article ,
says...
Actually that problem typically occurs with a VOM with a high impedance.
You could use a $150 Fluke which is a very real meter and see spurious
voltage. You won't see it with an old meter with a needle movement,
because it's not high impedance. I've never seen it with a cheap neon tester
either, they take substantial voltage to light, eg 90V, and do pass
some amount of current, so I think it's unlikely you could get it to
light from spurious voltage due to a nearby cable. The non-contact
type testers could light.




I have seen the neon testers light up with no real current on the wires.

Where I worked many wires were in conduit and you could disconnect each
end and the neon tester would light from one wire to the ground
(conduit). A Fluke meter would show about 115 volts. My 'trusty'
Simpson 260 analog would show about 75 volts on the 250 volt scale. One
way I found to tell if the voltage was 'induced' was to start off on
the highest scale of the Simpson, then switch to the lower ranges. If
induced, the meter would stay about the same physical place on the
scale. If 'real' it would show the same actual voltage.
Some of the wires had enough current on them they would give you a very
bad shock.

Some switches and relay contacts had capacitors and resistors across
them to supress arking. The neon testes could be fooled by those.

On 21/12/2019 15:58, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
Actually that problem typically occurs with a VOM with a high impedance.
You could use a $150 Fluke which is a very real meter and see spurious
voltage. You won't see it with an old meter with a needle movement,
because it's not high impedance. I've never seen it with a cheap neon tester
either, they take substantial voltage to light, eg 90V, and do pass
some amount of current, so I think it's unlikely you could get it to
light from spurious voltage due to a nearby cable. The non-contact
type testers could light.




I have seen the neon testers light up with no real current on the wires.

Where I worked many wires were in conduit and you could disconnect each
end and the neon tester would light from one wire to the ground
(conduit). A Fluke meter would show about 115 volts. My 'trusty'
Simpson 260 analog would show about 75 volts on the 250 volt scale. One
way I found to tell if the voltage was 'induced' was to start off on
the highest scale of the Simpson, then switch to the lower ranges. If
induced, the meter would stay about the same physical place on the
scale. If 'real' it would show the same actual voltage.
Some of the wires had enough current on them they would give you a very
bad shock.

Some switches and relay contacts had capacitors and resistors across
them to supress arking. The neon testes could be fooled by those.

You have neon testes?
(Sorry couldn't resist) :-)

--
Bod

In article ,
says...
Some switches and relay contacts had capacitors and resistors across
them to supress arking. The neon testes could be fooled by those.

You have neon testes?
(Sorry couldn't resist) :-)




Like I have said in a few other posts, I can not spell any better than
the people in England. :-)

My computer spell checker is not much better.

On 21/12/2019 16:38, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
Some switches and relay contacts had capacitors and resistors across
them to supress arking. The neon testes could be fooled by those.

You have neon testes?
(Sorry couldn't resist) :-)




Like I have said in a few other posts, I can not spell any better than
the people in England. :-)

My computer spell checker is not much better.


Spelling is one of my better attributes. I've never used a spoll
chucker, possibly the only good one ;-)

--
Bod

On 12/20/19 1:21 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

I would agree, IF he's did his testing with the light in the circuit.
But if not, the above does not explain how he says he has TWO wires
that are energized.

The disconnected neutral acts as an antenna and picks up the voltage of
the nearby energized wire.

--
4 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it; ignorance may
deride it; malice may distort it; but there it is." -- Winston Churchill

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 00:53:58 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 21 Dec 2019 09:21:16 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 20/12/19 22:25, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do

I put a dimmer on the dining room light, got interrrupted in the middle
for a long time, then didn't know why the range hood didn't work. The
wire for the range hood came out of the box with the dining room light
switch. Of course the wall was right between the rooms.

You're using a real volt meter, not a neon light or something? The
lightbulb is not in the socket when you are testing the voltage to it?


I used a neon light tester.

That's NO GOOD. It can show something as hot that isn't, just because
something nearby is hot. Once you have one mistake in your perception
of things, you'll never figure out the truth.


Actually he CAN do the whole test with nothing but a proper "neon
tester" desighned for the job
The light bulb was in the fixture. The light
worked when both the fixture and the light bulb were removed and
connected to another circuit.

So there's nothing wrong with the lightbulb but using neon, you haven't
learned a thing about the socket wires.

You need a VOM, a volt-ohmmeter. HarborFreight has them for 4 or 5
dollars. If that isn't handy, Home Depot has them for 10 or 20.

No - a proper neon tester was actually the troubleshooting tool of
choice for many professionalelectricians for decades. BUT - you have
to understand it and how to use it.

You're going to have to get a real meter, do all the same measurements,
and if necessary, come back here with useful results.

$10 is a small investment for something this important, considering what
electricians charge, and that a meter can last you 60 or 100 years.

Try to get a package of jumper wires too, with alligator clips on each
end, so that you can connect the black wire from the meter to another
location, such as a ground, and only have to pay attention to the red
proble.

!!! While analog meters, with a moving needle, have an advantage in a
few situations, if you're only going to have one meter, I think digital
is much better and much more useful.

Don't get a battery tester, don't get non-contact.

This, or something that looks like this, only $10:
https://www.amazon.com/WeePro-Vpro85...-search&sr=8-4

Note that there is one set of settings for AC and one for DC. Try to
set things right before touching the leads to the wires. Most meters
have over-voltage protection now but it's good practice, and some day
you may be using a meter without that.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=vom&link_...tag=mozilla-20

The more expensive ones have options you'll probably never use.

Jumper wires, 1000 uses:

https://www.amazon.com/WGGE-WG-026-P...-search&sr=8-4



see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them neutral
or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the switch, one
on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only charged after
the switch is flipped.

This is the switch for the light that does not work?

The "two are charged" when the switch is not flipped, but are both
charged when the switch is flipped?

Yes and yes.



Is there more than one switch controlling the light in hte laundry
room? Not very common but would account for there being 3 wires to the
switch.

No.

Alternate question, are the two that are charged directly conneded
outside the switch, by a continuous piece of copper, or are they
connected inside the switch. (I'm assuming one is connected to the
other and the second one is hot only because it's connected. That's
probably true.)


They are connected directly to the switch, two wires going into one side
of the switch and being tightened by a switch screw, the other going to
the other side of the switch.

On 21/12/19 21:39, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 9:51:25 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 20/12/19 22:25, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do

I put a dimmer on the dining room light, got interrrupted in the middle
for a long time, then didn't know why the range hood didn't work. The
wire for the range hood came out of the box with the dining room light
switch. Of course the wall was right between the rooms.

You're using a real volt meter, not a neon light or something? The
lightbulb is not in the socket when you are testing the voltage to it?


I used a neon light tester. The light bulb was in the fixture.

That's why both wires tested hot. Looks like the neutral is disconnected.
With the neutral disconnected, no current flows and both sides of the
load will be at the same potential. Since you say just two wires enter
the light, the only way I can see that explains all that you reported is
this. Power comes to fixture A in the other room that was worked on.
From there, a cable goes to the switch that works fixture B, the one
that doesn't work now. One wire of that cable is
connected to incoming power hot at fixture A location. That wire is
connected to one side of the switch, the other wire connects to the other side
of the switch. Back a fixture A, another cable runs over to fixture
B, the one that won't light now. One wire of that cable connects to
the above wire coming from the switch, the other to the neutral. If
that neutral connection was undone at the fixture A location, it
would explain what you are seeing.

That's right. Neutral was disconnected somewhere after the light. It's
been fixed and is now working. Thanks to everyone who helped me.

On 21/12/19 22:08, dpb wrote:
On 12/20/2019 2:09 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before
I flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester.
After flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't
light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after
flipping the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I
do see that there are three wires in the switch box, none of them
neutral or ground. They are all live wires. Two on one side of the
switch, one on the other side. The two are charged, the other is only
charged after the switch is flipped.

The most likely is that which Clare noted before; the neutral in the
worked-on box wasn't reconnected.

If you can see the obvious issue there as he suggests, then you're good
to go. If not, since the issue appears to have been caused by the work;
I'd suggest get them back to fix the problem they created.

What was the purpose of their work just out of curiosity (altho that
might have some bearing that might make understanding what happened
simpler from afar).

--

Yes. Neutral needed to be reconnected.

Replacing kitchen ceiling was the work.

On 21/12/19 12:23, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 21 Dec 2019 09:21:16 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 20/12/19 22:25, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:39:41 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

The light in the laundry room stops working after worker had worked on
the ceiling in the next room.

There are two wires coming in to the light (or one in one out). Before I
flip the switch, both wires are not charged as tested by a tester. After
flipping the switch, both are charged. Yet, the light just won't light.

I removed the light and plug it in to a socket, it works.

Question:

1) did the test (both wires not charged and then charged after flipping
the switch) I do make sense?

2) how could the work in the other room affect the light next room? I do

I put a dimmer on the dining room light, got interrrupted in the middle
for a long time, then didn't know why the range hood didn't work. The
wire for the range hood came out of the box with the dining room light
switch. Of course the wall was right between the rooms.

You're using a real volt meter, not a neon light or something? The
lightbulb is not in the socket when you are testing the voltage to it?


I used a neon light tester.

That's NO GOOD. It can show something as hot that isn't, just because
something nearby is hot. Once you have one mistake in your perception
of things, you'll never figure out the truth.

The light bulb was in the fixture. The light
worked when both the fixture and the light bulb were removed and
connected to another circuit.

So there's nothing wrong with the lightbulb but using neon, you haven't
learned a thing about the socket wires.

You need a VOM, a volt-ohmmeter. HarborFreight has them for 4 or 5
dollars. If that isn't handy, Home Depot has them for 10 or 20.

You're going to have to get a real meter, do all the same measurements,
and if necessary, come back here with useful results.

$10 is a small investment for something this important, considering what
electricians charge, and that a meter can last you 60 or 100 years.

Try to get a package of jumper wires too, with alligator clips on each
end, so that you can connect the black wire from the meter to another
location, such as a ground, and only have to pay attention to the red
proble.

!!! While analog meters, with a moving needle, have an advantage in a
few situations, if you're only going to have one meter, I think digital
is much better and much more useful.

Don't get a battery tester, don't get non-contact.

This, or something that looks like this, only $10:
https://www.amazon.com/WeePro-Vpro85...-search&sr=8-4

Note that there is one set of settings for AC and one for DC. Try to
set things right before touching the leads to the wires. Most meters
have over-voltage protection now but it's good practice, and some day
you may be using a meter without that.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=vom&link_...tag=mozilla-20

The more expensive ones have options you'll probably never use.

Jumper wires, 1000 uses:

https://www.amazon.com/WGGE-WG-026-P...-search&sr=8-4

Thanks for the advice. But actually, I have found neon testers to be
quite handy. I only need to use one hand to operate it. I do have a
multimeter but it takes two hands to operate. So, unless it's absolutely
necessary, I just use the neon tester.