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#41
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cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard to use?
On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 11:38:55 AM UTC-5, M. L. wrote:
Could you elaborate on that solar cell setup? Where can I buy one? This one will keep a charged battery topped up, but does not put out enough to charge a flat battery: https://www.harborfreight.com/15-wat...ger-62449.html Thank you for your prompt response. While I'm excited about the prospect of using a solar panel to maintain a trickle charge, the solar solutions I've come across so far have problems for my usage: 1.) My cigarette lighter outlet doesn't stay on after the ignition is turned off, so my only recourse is to permanently connect the solar panel to the battery posts. 2.) The alligator clips for the battery posts are too obtrusive and would interfere with my current battery post connectors. There needs to be a solar trickle charger with better integrated battery connectors. 3.) The instructions to these devices state that in order to prevent damage to the trickle charger, it's supposed to be disconnected before starting the car and while driving. So how am I supposed to disconnect it from the battery before starting the car? Others have said that it works fine while starting the car. I use one on a car that sits a lot where there is no power outlet to run a conventional battery tender and it works well. Why not fix the actual problem? As Bowman pointed out, the sun doesn't shine at night, so the solar panel is of very limited help. It would allow you to leave the car with the battery connected during the day, when it's sunny. That's about all I see it doing. Put an ammeter on each fuse circuit. You can take a fuse, modify it to add wires, maybe solder them on, to have a test jig. Then find the offending circuit. Then get a circuit schematic and see what's on that circuit, disconnect components to narrow it down. Even if you can't find the actual problem, if you then take it to the dealer and say it's the climate control circuit or the locking system circuit, they can then focus in on that, swap parts, etc. It's also very possible if you tell them what circuit it is, they will have seen that before on other cars and know what it likely is. That's one big advantage to the dealer, they see the same models all the time. It's also possible something is draining it that's not on a fused circuit, but that's unlikely. When you do the testing, put the meter inside the car where you can see it, then close it up as you would normally and wait about 30 mins to see what it reads. Modern cars have all kinds of modules and some take 5, 10 15 mins to power down and go to sleep. You can keep an eye on it and if you see it only takes say 5 mins to go down to ~50ma or so and it doesn't go lower, then you know you can shorten your wait time down to just 10 mins or so. I'd much rather do that than fiddle around with kludges. |
#42
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solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...
On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 12:35:12 PM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
In trader_4 writes: Any diode worth using will have so little 'backflow' it would take years to drain a car battery. +1 I guess things have improved since my days working the lab with George Steinmetz... The other thing Danny thinks the battery is draining over many days, while the OP clearly said it happens overnight. My impression was more that it started off (for illustraion) on Sunday with 100 pct charge. Not driven at all. So Sun eve it's at 95 pct, Mon morning at 90. (Using "20 percent" as the cutoff needed for starting) Driven a bit Monday, so Mon eve 92 pct, Tues morn 85. Drops down a couple more percent each day. Finally, the next week.. Mon morning 21 pct, mon eve 23, Tuesday morning... 18 percent. So... nada... That's true if you don't drive the car enough to recharge it. It shouldn't take much driving to take a battery from 90 back to 100. They have 90a, 120a alternators. If the parasitic current is 1A, with just 30A charging current, you could replace 12 hours of drain in 1/30th that time, ie ~24 minutes of driving time. Of course if the current is 3A, then it gets worse. But in my experience, they've typically not been very large. But the right solution here is to find the fault. I gave him some tips on how to find it. It can be time consuming and if you have some basic skills, you can do the time consuming part, to find which fuse circuit it is, yourself. At that point, if you can't proceed yourself, the dealer should be able to find the fault without too much time. Could turn a long repair time into just an hour or two. |
#43
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solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...
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#44
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solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...
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#45
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cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard to use?
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#46
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cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard to use?
On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 1:54:43 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... our wait time down to just 10 mins or so. I'd much rather do that than fiddle around with kludges. Right. Fix the problem and quit screwing around with the external power. Some cars draw a bit of current while cut off. I am not sure how long they would last, but should be good for a week before affecting the starting. BMW X5, the spec is 45ma. The one here draws 70ma,but close enough. Like I said though, you have to wait 5,10,15 mins maybe for it to go down to that after shutting it off. I also close all doors, hood, etc, lock it before measuring and look at the meter through the window. Leave a door open and who knows what happens. Maybe simple things like that are why the alleged mechanics can't figure it out. |
#47
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cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard to use?
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 10:38:49 -0600, "M. L."
wrote: Could you elaborate on that solar cell setup? Where can I buy one? This one will keep a charged battery topped up, but does not put out enough to charge a flat battery: https://www.harborfreight.com/15-wat...ger-62449.html Thank you for your prompt response. While I'm excited about the prospect of using a solar panel to maintain a trickle charge, the solar solutions I've come across so far have problems for my usage: 1.) My cigarette lighter outlet doesn't stay on after the ignition is turned off, so my only recourse is to permanently connect the solar panel to the battery posts. 2.) The alligator clips for the battery posts are too obtrusive and would interfere with my current battery post connectors. There needs to be a solar trickle charger with better integrated battery connectors. 3.) The instructions to these devices state that in order to prevent damage to the trickle charger, it's supposed to be disconnected before starting the car and while driving. So how am I supposed to disconnect it from the battery before starting the car? Others have said that it works fine while starting the car. I use one on a car that sits a lot where there is no power outlet to run a conventional battery tender and it works well. Depending on your vehicle, it might be fairly easy to change the bus the "power port" connects to. On my Fords, it is simply moving the connector in the fuse block to an empty "always on" hole. It might be a good idea to mark the change on the fuse block and the owner book. |
#48
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cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard to use?
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:36:20 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote: On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 11:38:55 AM UTC-5, M. L. wrote: Could you elaborate on that solar cell setup? Where can I buy one? This one will keep a charged battery topped up, but does not put out enough to charge a flat battery: https://www.harborfreight.com/15-wat...ger-62449.html Thank you for your prompt response. While I'm excited about the prospect of using a solar panel to maintain a trickle charge, the solar solutions I've come across so far have problems for my usage: 1.) My cigarette lighter outlet doesn't stay on after the ignition is turned off, so my only recourse is to permanently connect the solar panel to the battery posts. 2.) The alligator clips for the battery posts are too obtrusive and would interfere with my current battery post connectors. There needs to be a solar trickle charger with better integrated battery connectors. 3.) The instructions to these devices state that in order to prevent damage to the trickle charger, it's supposed to be disconnected before starting the car and while driving. So how am I supposed to disconnect it from the battery before starting the car? Others have said that it works fine while starting the car. I use one on a car that sits a lot where there is no power outlet to run a conventional battery tender and it works well. Why not fix the actual problem? As Bowman pointed out, the sun doesn't shine at night, so the solar panel is of very limited help. It would allow you to leave the car with the battery connected during the day, when it's sunny. That's about all I see it doing. Put an ammeter on each fuse circuit. You can take a fuse, modify it to add wires, maybe solder them on, to have a test jig. Then find the offending circuit. Then get a circuit schematic and see what's on that circuit, disconnect components to narrow it down. Even if you can't find the actual problem, if you then take it to the dealer and say it's the climate control circuit or the locking system circuit, they can then focus in on that, swap parts, etc. It's also very possible if you tell them what circuit it is, they will have seen that before on other cars and know what it likely is. That's one big advantage to the dealer, they see the same models all the time. It's also possible something is draining it that's not on a fused circuit, but that's unlikely. When you do the testing, put the meter inside the car where you can see it, then close it up as you would normally and wait about 30 mins to see what it reads. Modern cars have all kinds of modules and some take 5, 10 15 mins to power down and go to sleep. You can keep an eye on it and if you see it only takes say 5 mins to go down to ~50ma or so and it doesn't go lower, then you know you can shorten your wait time down to just 10 mins or so. I'd much rather do that than fiddle around with kludges. Some cars simply have a design problem. MY FIL's Cadillac used to kill the battery if he didn't drive it for a week or two. Cadillacs answer was a free trickle charger. They bought him several batteries on warranty and they had it in the shop for days each time. They tried playing with software changes and all sorts of load testing. Finally they just made him a deal on a trade. |
#49
Posted to alt.home.repair
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solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:12:30 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote: In Roger Blake writes: On 2019-11-19, M. L. wrote: Could you elaborate on that solar cell setup? Where can I buy one? This one will keep a charged battery topped up, but does not put out enough to charge a flat battery: https://www.harborfreight.com/15-wat...ger-62449.html While yes, it will certainly work for "topping up", just a general note that you should take any of the solar panel output labels with a great deal of skepticism. (Not just Harbor Freight). also, of course, keep in mind that the (what used to be called) cigarette lighter might, or might not, be cut out when the car is turned off... In MOST cars today that is "programmable" on the fuse panel by simply moving the fuse - a 3 terminal fuse slot. |
#50
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solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:35:21 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... Any diode worth using will have so little 'backflow' it would take years to drain a car battery. +1 I guess things have improved since my days working the lab with George Steinmetz... I don't know who Steinmetz is. Quick search showed him to be a photographer. Any diode worth uisng now has a reverse flow in the microamp range. Even sorry ones will be much less than a milliamp. I don't know about the reverse of the selenium rectifiers, but they have not been used for very much of anything in the last 50 years or longer. Probably not even made in the last 25 or more years. The old metal oxide diodes were even worse than the Seleniums - not made for several decades, thankdully. (think the old razor blade detector diodes on "trench radios") |
#51
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solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...
[snippppp]
Any diode worth using will have so little 'backflow' it would take years to drain a car battery. I guess things have improved since my days working the lab with George Steinmetz... I don't know who Steinmetz is. Quick search showed him to be a photographer. Big, make that BIG, mea culpa. I meant Charles Steinmetz... Just like with polio, where everyone knows about Salk and Sabin, but hasn't/haven't heard of Hilary Koprowski [a], or... desegregation of bus lines, where everyone knows Rosa Parks but similarly never heard of Claudette Colvin [b] (not to be confused with the actress Claudette Colbert), the early Electrical Genuises included the Very Well Known Edison, Tesla, and (older folk will recall Westinghouse...) there was also George Steinmetz [c]: [a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_Koprowski [b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudette_Colvin [c] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Proteus_Steinmetz -- __________________________________________________ ___ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] |
#52
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solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...
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#53
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cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard touse?
1.) My cigarette lighter outlet doesn't stay on after the ignition is turned off, so my only recourse is to permanently connect the solar panel to the battery posts. Likewise, the car I use it on has the cig ligher off when the car is off. What I do is to connect the alligator clips directly to the battery terminals. The cord is long enough in my case that I can put the solar panel inside the windshield. 2.) The alligator clips for the battery posts are too obtrusive and would interfere with my current battery post connectors. There needs to be a solar trickle charger with better integrated battery connectors. You'd probably need to fab something up to fit your requirements. I'd like a manufacturer to create a rechargeable trickle charger that could be easily removed for recharging a few hours at home, then reconnected to the car to last a week or month of trickling. Of course, the charger brick could be removed without disconnecting the alligator clips from the battery. 3.) The instructions to these devices state that in order to prevent damage to the trickle charger, it's supposed to be disconnected before starting the car and while driving. So how am I supposed to disconnect it from the battery before starting the car? Others have said that it works fine while starting the car. I just pop the hood and disconnect it. That sounds primitive and inconvenient, but that's exactly what I'm doing right now with my battery cutoff switch. The problem with using the battery cutoff switch to prevent overnight drain is that it resets the clock and the OBD computer at each morning startup. |
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