Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,279
Default cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard to use?

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 11:38:55 AM UTC-5, M. L. wrote:
Could you elaborate on that solar cell setup? Where can I buy one?


This one will keep a charged battery topped up, but does not put out
enough to charge a flat battery:

https://www.harborfreight.com/15-wat...ger-62449.html


Thank you for your prompt response. While I'm excited about the prospect
of using a solar panel to maintain a trickle charge, the solar solutions
I've come across so far have problems for my usage:

1.) My cigarette lighter outlet doesn't stay on after the ignition is
turned off, so my only recourse is to permanently connect the solar
panel to the battery posts.

2.) The alligator clips for the battery posts are too obtrusive and
would interfere with my current battery post connectors. There needs to
be a solar trickle charger with better integrated battery connectors.

3.) The instructions to these devices state that in order to prevent
damage to the trickle charger, it's supposed to be disconnected before
starting the car and while driving. So how am I supposed to disconnect
it from the battery before starting the car? Others have said that it
works fine while starting the car.

I use one on a car that sits a lot where there is no power outlet to
run a conventional battery tender and it works well.


Why not fix the actual problem? As Bowman pointed out, the sun doesn't
shine at night, so the solar panel is of very limited help. It would
allow you to leave the car with the battery connected during the day,
when it's sunny. That's about all I see it doing.

Put an ammeter on each fuse circuit. You can take a fuse, modify it
to add wires, maybe solder them on, to have a test jig. Then find
the offending circuit. Then get a circuit schematic and see what's
on that circuit, disconnect components to narrow it down. Even if
you can't find the actual problem, if you then take it to the dealer
and say it's the climate control circuit or the locking system circuit,
they can then focus in on that, swap parts, etc. It's also very possible
if you tell them what circuit it is, they will have seen that before
on other cars and know what it likely is. That's one big advantage
to the dealer, they see the same models all the time. It's also possible
something is draining it that's not on a fused circuit, but that's
unlikely. When you do the testing, put the meter inside the car where
you can see it, then close it up as you would normally and wait about
30 mins to see what it reads. Modern cars have all kinds of modules
and some take 5, 10 15 mins to power down and go to sleep. You can
keep an eye on it and if you see it only takes say 5 mins to go down to
~50ma or so and it doesn't go lower, then you know you can shorten
your wait time down to just 10 mins or so. I'd much rather do that
than fiddle around with kludges.

  #42   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,279
Default solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 12:35:12 PM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
In trader_4 writes:

Any diode worth using will have so little 'backflow' it would take
years to drain a car battery.


+1


I guess things have improved since my days working the
lab with George Steinmetz...

The other thing Danny thinks the battery is draining over many days,
while the OP clearly said it happens overnight.


My impression was more that it started off (for illustraion)
on Sunday with 100 pct charge. Not driven at all. So Sun eve
it's at 95 pct, Mon morning at 90.

(Using "20 percent" as the cutoff needed for starting)

Driven a bit Monday, so Mon eve 92 pct, Tues morn 85.

Drops down a couple more percent each day.

Finally, the next week.. Mon morning 21 pct, mon eve 23,
Tuesday morning... 18 percent. So... nada...


That's true if you don't drive the car enough to recharge it.
It shouldn't take much driving to take a battery from 90 back to 100.
They have 90a, 120a alternators. If the parasitic current is 1A,
with just 30A charging current, you could replace 12 hours of drain
in 1/30th that time, ie ~24 minutes of driving time. Of course if
the current is 3A, then it gets worse. But in my experience, they've
typically not been very large.

But the right solution here is to find the fault. I gave him some
tips on how to find it. It can be time consuming and if you have
some basic skills, you can do the time consuming part, to find which
fuse circuit it is, yourself. At that point, if you can't proceed
yourself, the dealer should be able to find the fault without too
much time. Could turn a long repair time into just an hour or two.







  #44   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,228
Default solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...

In article ,
says...

It should be possible to find the source of the problem with the OP's
car. You're right, today many alleged mechanics are incompetent.
I have a friend who had a Honda CRV. The AC didn't work, he had
taken it to shop that specializes in AC. They spent hours, told him
they couldn't find the problem, they thought it was an electrical
computer thing, so they took it to another shop that specializes
in that. They also couldn't fix it. I said bring it over here,
let me look at it. I had him put on the AC and I took a look at
the clutch. It wasn't spinning, so I probed it with just a test light.
Voltage at the clutch. I got a hammer, tapped the clutch a few times,
had him try it again. Voila, AC working.

That one is so basic, it boggles the minds how any shop that does AC
work couldn't identify and fix it. He kept the car for another couple
years after that, no more problems with the AC. I did instruct him to
run the AC once a month on moderate days, just to keep things moving.




It is good to run the AC once or twice a month even if you do not need
it.

It is interisting how those mechanics can not seem to do basic trouble
shooting before looking into something complicated. One would have
thought like you did. Look at the compressor to see if it is turning.
If not, check for voltage. If voltage, look compressor, if no voltage,
look for something more compicated like a blown fuse, or a low pressure
cut out switch indicatine most often low refregerent.

Always do the very basic simple tests first unless there is a known
history of a certain failed part.

Where I worked it never faild to surprise me how many could not catch a
blown fuse. They could not get it in their heads that in some circuits
(mostly 3 phase) that you could have power on each side of a fuse and it
still is bad.
Some control circuits had low value capacitors across the switches. They
would pass enough voltage to light up the simple neon testers many used.

I really loved the tester I used most often. It had two leads and a
row of LEDs. YOu could put it across anything from about 20 volts to
600 vots. Look at the leds. If there was voltage above 20 volts a led
or more would light up indicating if low voltage, 120, 240, 480 volts.
Another for DC. and another is low resistance.

  #47   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard to use?

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 10:38:49 -0600, "M. L."
wrote:


Could you elaborate on that solar cell setup? Where can I buy one?


This one will keep a charged battery topped up, but does not put out
enough to charge a flat battery:

https://www.harborfreight.com/15-wat...ger-62449.html


Thank you for your prompt response. While I'm excited about the prospect
of using a solar panel to maintain a trickle charge, the solar solutions
I've come across so far have problems for my usage:

1.) My cigarette lighter outlet doesn't stay on after the ignition is
turned off, so my only recourse is to permanently connect the solar
panel to the battery posts.

2.) The alligator clips for the battery posts are too obtrusive and
would interfere with my current battery post connectors. There needs to
be a solar trickle charger with better integrated battery connectors.

3.) The instructions to these devices state that in order to prevent
damage to the trickle charger, it's supposed to be disconnected before
starting the car and while driving. So how am I supposed to disconnect
it from the battery before starting the car? Others have said that it
works fine while starting the car.

I use one on a car that sits a lot where there is no power outlet to
run a conventional battery tender and it works well.


Depending on your vehicle, it might be fairly easy to change the bus
the "power port" connects to. On my Fords, it is simply moving the
connector in the fuse block to an empty "always on" hole. It might be
a good idea to mark the change on the fuse block and the owner book.
  #48   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard to use?

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:36:20 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 11:38:55 AM UTC-5, M. L. wrote:
Could you elaborate on that solar cell setup? Where can I buy one?

This one will keep a charged battery topped up, but does not put out
enough to charge a flat battery:

https://www.harborfreight.com/15-wat...ger-62449.html


Thank you for your prompt response. While I'm excited about the prospect
of using a solar panel to maintain a trickle charge, the solar solutions
I've come across so far have problems for my usage:

1.) My cigarette lighter outlet doesn't stay on after the ignition is
turned off, so my only recourse is to permanently connect the solar
panel to the battery posts.

2.) The alligator clips for the battery posts are too obtrusive and
would interfere with my current battery post connectors. There needs to
be a solar trickle charger with better integrated battery connectors.

3.) The instructions to these devices state that in order to prevent
damage to the trickle charger, it's supposed to be disconnected before
starting the car and while driving. So how am I supposed to disconnect
it from the battery before starting the car? Others have said that it
works fine while starting the car.

I use one on a car that sits a lot where there is no power outlet to
run a conventional battery tender and it works well.


Why not fix the actual problem? As Bowman pointed out, the sun doesn't
shine at night, so the solar panel is of very limited help. It would
allow you to leave the car with the battery connected during the day,
when it's sunny. That's about all I see it doing.

Put an ammeter on each fuse circuit. You can take a fuse, modify it
to add wires, maybe solder them on, to have a test jig. Then find
the offending circuit. Then get a circuit schematic and see what's
on that circuit, disconnect components to narrow it down. Even if
you can't find the actual problem, if you then take it to the dealer
and say it's the climate control circuit or the locking system circuit,
they can then focus in on that, swap parts, etc. It's also very possible
if you tell them what circuit it is, they will have seen that before
on other cars and know what it likely is. That's one big advantage
to the dealer, they see the same models all the time. It's also possible
something is draining it that's not on a fused circuit, but that's
unlikely. When you do the testing, put the meter inside the car where
you can see it, then close it up as you would normally and wait about
30 mins to see what it reads. Modern cars have all kinds of modules
and some take 5, 10 15 mins to power down and go to sleep. You can
keep an eye on it and if you see it only takes say 5 mins to go down to
~50ma or so and it doesn't go lower, then you know you can shorten
your wait time down to just 10 mins or so. I'd much rather do that
than fiddle around with kludges.


Some cars simply have a design problem. MY FIL's Cadillac used to kill
the battery if he didn't drive it for a week or two. Cadillacs answer
was a free trickle charger. They bought him several batteries on
warranty and they had it in the shop for days each time. They tried
playing with software changes and all sorts of load testing. Finally
they just made him a deal on a trade.
  #49   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,564
Default solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:12:30 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In Roger Blake writes:

On 2019-11-19, M. L. wrote:
Could you elaborate on that solar cell setup? Where can I buy one?


This one will keep a charged battery topped up, but does not put out
enough to charge a flat battery:


https://www.harborfreight.com/15-wat...ger-62449.html


While yes, it will certainly work for "topping up", just a general
note that you should take any of the solar panel output labels
with a great deal of skepticism.

(Not just Harbor Freight).

also, of course, keep in mind that the (what used to be called)
cigarette lighter might, or might not, be cut out when the
car is turned off...

In MOST cars today that is "programmable" on the fuse panel by
simply moving the fuse - a 3 terminal fuse slot.
  #51   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 398
Default solar panels, was: cheap and long extensions, was: ...

[snippppp]

Any diode worth using will have so little 'backflow' it would take
years to drain a car battery.

I guess things have improved since my days working the
lab with George Steinmetz...


I don't know who Steinmetz is. Quick search showed him to be a
photographer.


Big, make that BIG, mea culpa. I meant Charles Steinmetz...

Just like with polio, where everyone knows about Salk
and Sabin, but hasn't/haven't heard of Hilary Koprowski [a],

or...

desegregation of bus lines, where everyone knows Rosa
Parks but similarly never heard of Claudette Colvin [b]
(not to be confused with the actress Claudette Colbert),

the early Electrical Genuises included the Very Well
Known Edison, Tesla, and (older folk will recall Westinghouse...)
there was also George Steinmetz [c]:

[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_Koprowski
[b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudette_Colvin
[c] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Proteus_Steinmetz
--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
  #53   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default cheap and long extensions, was: Why are extension cords hard touse?


1.) My cigarette lighter outlet doesn't stay on after the ignition is
turned off, so my only recourse is to permanently connect the solar
panel to the battery posts.


Likewise, the car I use it on has the cig ligher off when the car is
off. What I do is to connect the alligator clips directly to the
battery terminals. The cord is long enough in my case that I can put the
solar panel inside the windshield.

2.) The alligator clips for the battery posts are too obtrusive and
would interfere with my current battery post connectors. There needs to
be a solar trickle charger with better integrated battery connectors.


You'd probably need to fab something up to fit your requirements.


I'd like a manufacturer to create a rechargeable trickle charger that
could be easily removed for recharging a few hours at home, then
reconnected to the car to last a week or month of trickling. Of course,
the charger brick could be removed without disconnecting the alligator
clips from the battery.

3.) The instructions to these devices state that in order to prevent
damage to the trickle charger, it's supposed to be disconnected before
starting the car and while driving. So how am I supposed to disconnect
it from the battery before starting the car? Others have said that it
works fine while starting the car.


I just pop the hood and disconnect it.


That sounds primitive and inconvenient, but that's exactly what I'm
doing right now with my battery cutoff switch. The problem with using
the battery cutoff switch to prevent overnight drain is that it resets
the clock and the OBD computer at each morning startup.


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why aren't all extension cords grounded if it's code that your outletbe grounded? so[_2_] Home Repair 16 April 13th 11 04:16 PM
Proper Use of Extension Cords Mr WithEveryShot Home Repair 5 August 17th 10 09:33 PM
3-phase extension cords; 50'? Bernard Arnest Metalworking 10 May 10th 06 06:51 AM
Wireless Extension Cords Michael Kennedy Electronics Repair 3 April 2nd 06 10:44 PM
Extension Cords For Sale Revised Ronald Murray Woodworking 4 March 29th 04 08:35 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"