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Default Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&E fluctuating power outages?

Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&E
fluctuating power outages?

At the moment, my power is out due to California PG&E mismanagement, where
I'm running on the built-in automatic propane generator (which I had to
recently repair with much appreciated help from purposefully helpful people
like Jeff Liebermann, who is a somewhat near neighbor in the general area).

Just wondering if it's a good idea to turn off the well pumps and pool
pumps, just to prevent the inevitable flickering of the power supply and
the eventual turning on of the PG&E destruction from "destroying things".

Given our power went out for a day on average over 30 times in the last
three years, I probably should have thought about this sooner, but this
particular set of recent PG&E outages is planned so we can prepare.

The multiple wells fill up multiple 5,000 & 10,000 gallon water tanks,
which are currently full and which last at least a month or so on their
reserves, so water supply isn't the issue ... just the 500 foot deep well
pumps themselves, and the multiple 1-1/2 HP multiple pool pumps (self
cleaning pools have more pumps).

Is it good advice to turn off non-essential well & pool pumps during these
PG&E fluctuating power outages?
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Default Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&Efluctuating power outages?

They are going to turn them off for you. Sounds like you are in the know. Plan accordnally as you know. Good luck out there from the east coast.
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Default Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&E fluctuating power outages?

On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 14:34:53 -0700 (PDT), Thomas wrote:

They are going to turn them off for you.
Sounds like you are in the know.
Plan accordnally as you know.
Good luck out there from the east coast.


When I lived in the mountains back east, the power didn't go off more than
a few times in a decade, whereas here in the mountains of California, the
power goes off once a month for a day or so, on average.

This outage started on Saturday, where they gave us 24-hour notice
(although the exact time is never even close so you have to just assume it
will happen, which it will), where they just texted everyone that it's
going to happen again on Tuesday, which implies they turned it back on in
the interim, which they didn't).

So we're looking to have the generator run the house for probably at least
until Thursday and THEN they'll turn on the juice, which is the spike I'm
trying to ask how to protect against.

I can't figure out what the difference is as we don't even get tornadoes or
ice storms or thunderstorms out here like we did back east.

Anyway, PG&E still hasn't restored power to us in the mountains around
Silicon Valley, even as the telltale smell of wood smoke that came through
last night has abated greatly with the slight winds.

As for "them turning it off", I must not have been clear that the pumps are
working just fine since the generator has been running (albeit with some
workarounds which are covered separately).

What I did was hit the circuit breaker for the pool pumps and for the
individual well pumps which are deep down underground.

I left the circuit breaker on for the booster pressure pump.

For some reason, the stove locked up (it does that when the power
fluctuates), but so far, we've been running on the generator for more than
a day now with no indication from PG&E when they'll turn the power back on.

The good news is that everyone out here has a generator, where it's like
everyone back east has a snow shovel.

The main thing I am worried about are the spikes when they turn the power
back on in a few days causing damage to the motors.
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Default Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&E fluctuating power outages?

On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 12:43:50 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:

As Trump would put it, you are living in a **** hole state.


Hi Ralph Mowery,

I don't disagree with you that a LOT of things in California are nothing
like they were back east, where, for example, they don't even have those
yellow school buses for free for all kids in the public school system here,
like they did back east where I grew up. And yet the property taxes are as
high as any high-tax state (maybe higher, given housing prices out here).

The power situation is atrocious, where they think it's normal for the
power to go out once a month for a day, where I remind them that the prices
we pay for electricity are about 45 cents a KWH (for the last couple weeks
of the month, as they use a tiered system).

The good news is that many people purchase a generator because the power is
so bad (sort of like how folks back east purchase a snow blower), where I
feel sorry for those who haven't sprung for that purchase.

The bad news is that PG&E has blown holes in the washing machine and
disabled the compressor in the refrigerator, by these power fluctuations,
and, strangely, the oven keeps locking up due to the fluctuations.

Right now, I'm worried about the well pumps and pool pumps, because they
have winding coils and starting caps, where I don't know if the spikes
caused when the power flips back on (usually it bounces for a few minutes)
will damage them.

After the big fire a while back the state blamed the fire on the power
company not cutting the trees and stuff off the powe lines.


PG&E is playing a game, much like Christy played a game with the bridge
where the game is to make the people feel the maximum pain to punish them
for their decisions.

In the case of the fires, I don't think California is the only place in the
country that has power lines that go through trees. Here, they don't use
"tree wire" for example, which is insulated wire specifically made to
vastly reduce the fire danger.

Why not?

It's clear why not, as tree wire is not only heavier, but it costs more.
o And yet, they CHARGE some of the highest prices in the nation.

That's the classic indicator of mismanagement.
o High prices
o Low service

The power company is now going bankrupt. I lost some money in the stock
market a few years back as I had some in a California power company that
went bankrupt. Hard to believe that a power company could go bankrupt.
None of the lines and poles were sold off as scrap. The power was never
cut off and te company renamed. Just a way of screwing the stock
holders.


The bankruptcy is complex, so I can't really delve into it as I don't fully
understand it myself, but, yes, it's a game.

They are now cutting off the power due to high winds that may blow the
power lines arround and cause a spark that will set off the fires.


PG&E just gave us notice that the power will be off at least until
Thursday, so it will have been off since Saturday, where, at least where I
am, the wind is nothing (nor was it much since Saturday when they killed
the power).

Of course, I'm aware that the wind where the power lines come from is what
matters, but the weather is so calm out here, if you dropped a feather, it
would fall, oh, maybe a couple of feet away from your feet.

So it's hard for me, where I sit, to believe that PG&E isn't playing a
game.

Given our power goes off for about a day, on average, about once a month,
on average (more in the winter than in the summer of course), it behooves
me to UNDERSTAND the mechanics of what happens to the windings and
capacitors on my large motors, where these motors are deep in every well
where I have enough water in the tanks to last a month.

I can't turn off the pressure booster, but the well pumps and pool pumps
can be turned off. I hit the circuit breaker for each of them, but I was
just asking for advice from the folks here.

Mostly I'm asking:
a. Does disconnecting those large (1-1/2 HP) motors protect them?
b. What else should be disconnected from the mains?

--
Usenet is a public potluck where adults share useful tidbits of value.


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Default Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&Efluctuating power outages?

On 10/28/2019 1:13 PM, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 12:43:50 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:

As Trump would put it, you are living in a **** hole state.


Hi Ralph Mowery,

I don't disagree with you that a LOT of things in California are nothing
like they were back east, where, for example, they don't even have those
yellow school buses for free for all kids in the public school system here,
like they did back east where I grew up. And yet the property taxes are as
high as any high-tax state (maybe higher, given housing prices out here).

The power situation is atrocious, where they think it's normal for the
power to go out once a month for a day, where I remind them that the prices
we pay for electricity are about 45 cents a KWH (for the last couple weeks
of the month, as they use a tiered system).

The good news is that many people purchase a generator because the power is
so bad (sort of like how folks back east purchase a snow blower), where I
feel sorry for those who haven't sprung for that purchase.

The bad news is that PG&E has blown holes in the washing machine and
disabled the compressor in the refrigerator, by these power fluctuations,
and, strangely, the oven keeps locking up due to the fluctuations.

Right now, I'm worried about the well pumps and pool pumps, because they
have winding coils and starting caps, where I don't know if the spikes
caused when the power flips back on (usually it bounces for a few minutes)
will damage them.

After the big fire a while back the state blamed the fire on the power
company not cutting the trees and stuff off the powe lines.


PG&E is playing a game, much like Christy played a game with the bridge
where the game is to make the people feel the maximum pain to punish them
for their decisions.

In the case of the fires, I don't think California is the only place in the
country that has power lines that go through trees. Here, they don't use
"tree wire" for example, which is insulated wire specifically made to
vastly reduce the fire danger.

Why not?

It's clear why not, as tree wire is not only heavier, but it costs more.
o And yet, they CHARGE some of the highest prices in the nation.

That's the classic indicator of mismanagement.
o High prices
o Low service

The power company is now going bankrupt. I lost some money in the stock
market a few years back as I had some in a California power company that
went bankrupt. Hard to believe that a power company could go bankrupt.
None of the lines and poles were sold off as scrap. The power was never
cut off and te company renamed. Just a way of screwing the stock
holders.


The bankruptcy is complex, so I can't really delve into it as I don't fully
understand it myself, but, yes, it's a game.

They are now cutting off the power due to high winds that may blow the
power lines arround and cause a spark that will set off the fires.


PG&E just gave us notice that the power will be off at least until
Thursday, so it will have been off since Saturday, where, at least where I
am, the wind is nothing (nor was it much since Saturday when they killed
the power).

Of course, I'm aware that the wind where the power lines come from is what
matters, but the weather is so calm out here, if you dropped a feather, it
would fall, oh, maybe a couple of feet away from your feet.

So it's hard for me, where I sit, to believe that PG&E isn't playing a
game.

Given our power goes off for about a day, on average, about once a month,
on average (more in the winter than in the summer of course), it behooves
me to UNDERSTAND the mechanics of what happens to the windings and
capacitors on my large motors, where these motors are deep in every well
where I have enough water in the tanks to last a month.

I can't turn off the pressure booster, but the well pumps and pool pumps
can be turned off. I hit the circuit breaker for each of them, but I was
just asking for advice from the folks here.

Mostly I'm asking:
a. Does disconnecting those large (1-1/2 HP) motors protect them?
b. What else should be disconnected from the mains?


I have snow thrower and generator here in the east. Power goes off
every now and then due to all the trees around. Worst situation I think
is when high tension line shorts to low tension home line by a fallen
tree or branch. Over the years I've lost two TV's, a microwave and
several circuit breakers and maybe an oven panel.

I think it is electrical stuff I mentioned that is most effected. I
never had a problem with the well pump.
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Default Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&E fluctuating power outages?


Is it good advice to turn off non-essential well & pool pumps during these
PG&E fluctuating power outages?


I had a fluctuating brownout condition, which I think MY air conditioner
blew out my house surpressor.

Greg
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Default Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&Efluctuating power outages?

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 11:57:53 AM UTC-4, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 14:34:53 -0700 (PDT), Thomas wrote:

They are going to turn them off for you.
Sounds like you are in the know.
Plan accordnally as you know.
Good luck out there from the east coast.


When I lived in the mountains back east, the power didn't go off more than
a few times in a decade, whereas here in the mountains of California, the
power goes off once a month for a day or so, on average.

This outage started on Saturday, where they gave us 24-hour notice
(although the exact time is never even close so you have to just assume it
will happen, which it will), where they just texted everyone that it's
going to happen again on Tuesday, which implies they turned it back on in
the interim, which they didn't).

So we're looking to have the generator run the house for probably at least
until Thursday and THEN they'll turn on the juice, which is the spike I'm
trying to ask how to protect against.

I can't figure out what the difference is as we don't even get tornadoes or
ice storms or thunderstorms out here like we did back east.

Anyway, PG&E still hasn't restored power to us in the mountains around
Silicon Valley, even as the telltale smell of wood smoke that came through
last night has abated greatly with the slight winds.

As for "them turning it off", I must not have been clear that the pumps are
working just fine since the generator has been running (albeit with some
workarounds which are covered separately).


You said the well pumps fill 10000+ tanks once a month and they are
full. So, I don;t see the issue with those pumps, as they would be
off. If they have some controllers associated with them that are
powered all the time, then that could be an issue.

With an automatic transfer generator running, you should be immune from
any turn-on transient. The generator isn't going to cut over in
milliseconds or probably even for a few seconds. I'd bet the protocol
calls for normal voltage to be back for some reasonable time period,
eg 10 seconds, a minute. If I was designing it I'd go with about a
minute. With power outages it's not unusual for the power to come back
on for a couple seconds, then disappear again.

I wouldn't bother, but if you want to there is no harm in turning off
loads that are not needed.




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Default Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&Efluctuating power outages?

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:44:01 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
o we're looking to have the generator run the house for probably at least
until Thursday and THEN they'll turn on the juice, which is the spike I'm
trying to ask how to protect against.

I can't figure out what the difference is as we don't even get tornadoes or
ice storms or thunderstorms out here like we did back east.




As Trump would put it, you are living in a **** hole state.

After the big fire a while back the state blamed the fire on the power
company not cutting the trees and stuff off the powe lines.

The power company is now going bankrupt. I lost some money in the stock
market a few years back as I had some in a California power company that
went bankrupt. Hard to believe that a power company could go bankrupt.


Not hard to believe in CA, what with the silly libs coming up with one
new law, one new regulations, after another and some utility board
setting the rates they can charge. If they tell you that you have to
use X% solar power and can only charge Y rate, it's easy to go bust.



None of the lines and poles were sold off as scrap. The power was never
cut off and te company renamed. Just a way of screwing the stock
holders.


No surprise there, similar happens with many bankrupt businesses, they
reorganize and go on or someone buys it in bankruptcy and the stockholders
get nothing.



They are now cutting off the power due to high winds that may blow the
power lines arround and cause a spark that will set off the fires.


Yet somehow they think one of the big fires was still due to some
power eqpt failure, that's what they are looking at.



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Default Is it good advice to turn off well & pool pumps during these PG&Efluctuating power outages?

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 1:13:40 PM UTC-4, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 12:43:50 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:

As Trump would put it, you are living in a **** hole state.


Hi Ralph Mowery,

I don't disagree with you that a LOT of things in California are nothing
like they were back east, where, for example, they don't even have those
yellow school buses for free for all kids in the public school system here,
like they did back east where I grew up. And yet the property taxes are as
high as any high-tax state (maybe higher, given housing prices out here).

The power situation is atrocious, where they think it's normal for the
power to go out once a month for a day, where I remind them that the prices
we pay for electricity are about 45 cents a KWH (for the last couple weeks
of the month, as they use a tiered system).

The good news is that many people purchase a generator because the power is
so bad (sort of like how folks back east purchase a snow blower), where I
feel sorry for those who haven't sprung for that purchase.

The bad news is that PG&E has blown holes in the washing machine and
disabled the compressor in the refrigerator, by these power fluctuations,
and, strangely, the oven keeps locking up due to the fluctuations.

Right now, I'm worried about the well pumps and pool pumps, because they
have winding coils and starting caps, where I don't know if the spikes
caused when the power flips back on (usually it bounces for a few minutes)
will damage them.

After the big fire a while back the state blamed the fire on the power
company not cutting the trees and stuff off the powe lines.


PG&E is playing a game, much like Christy played a game with the bridge
where the game is to make the people feel the maximum pain to punish them
for their decisions.

In the case of the fires, I don't think California is the only place in the
country that has power lines that go through trees.


Depends on what you mean by "go through trees". Here there are no trees
that can hit high voltage transmission lines, the area below and around
is clear cut. Along roads with lower voltage lines, trees are cut back
so that branches are not over or close to the lines. But still,
branches sometimes blow over into a line, or more likely a whole tree
or big part of a tree breaks and takes out the line. The difference
is that here, 90%+ of the time when that happens, it's raining.
And even if it's not, 99.99% of the time the area below is not dry
enough that a forest fire results.




Here, they don't use
"tree wire" for example, which is insulated wire specifically made to
vastly reduce the fire danger.

Why not?

It's clear why not, as tree wire is not only heavier, but it costs more.
o And yet, they CHARGE some of the highest prices in the nation.

That's the classic indicator of mismanagement.
o High prices
o Low service


Or it could be that the silly libs have put some many laws, rules and
reqts on the power companies in CA that's the best they can do.
You have politicians making the rules and setting the rates the
power company can charge. What do you think would happen to Apple
and Intel if they were subjected to that? In CA, it's only a matter
of time until they are. Which is one reason even those companies
are expanding mostly outside the state.







The power company is now going bankrupt. I lost some money in the stock
market a few years back as I had some in a California power company that
went bankrupt. Hard to believe that a power company could go bankrupt.
None of the lines and poles were sold off as scrap. The power was never
cut off and te company renamed. Just a way of screwing the stock
holders.


The bankruptcy is complex, so I can't really delve into it as I don't fully
understand it myself, but, yes, it's a game.

They are now cutting off the power due to high winds that may blow the
power lines arround and cause a spark that will set off the fires.


PG&E just gave us notice that the power will be off at least until
Thursday, so it will have been off since Saturday, where, at least where I
am, the wind is nothing (nor was it much since Saturday when they killed
the power).

Of course, I'm aware that the wind where the power lines come from is what
matters, but the weather is so calm out here, if you dropped a feather, it
would fall, oh, maybe a couple of feet away from your feet.

So it's hard for me, where I sit, to believe that PG&E isn't playing a
game.

Given our power goes off for about a day, on average, about once a month,
on average (more in the winter than in the summer of course), it behooves
me to UNDERSTAND the mechanics of what happens to the windings and
capacitors on my large motors, where these motors are deep in every well
where I have enough water in the tanks to last a month.

I can't turn off the pressure booster, but the well pumps and pool pumps
can be turned off. I hit the circuit breaker for each of them, but I was
just asking for advice from the folks here.

Mostly I'm asking:
a. Does disconnecting those large (1-1/2 HP) motors protect them?
b. What else should be disconnected from the mains?

--
Usenet is a public potluck where adults share useful tidbits of value.


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