I see some small portable generators (3000 - 4000 watt) on sale. $450
(CAD, which is $340 USD) for a Champion generator - I think this one:

https://www.championpowerequipment.c...age-generator/

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 10:27:24 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

I see some small portable generators (3000 - 4000 watt) on sale. $450
(CAD, which is $340 USD) for a Champion generator - I think this one:

https://www.championpowerequipment.c...age-generator/

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.
Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?
Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.


I would seriously suggest that you go to a slightly bigger & better
make & model - this one doesn't have any 230 volt output.
Also consider that your furnace is probably hard-wired - best to be
prepared for the generator hook-up in advance - not after the power
outage when it's dark & cold & the basement is flooding or freezer is
thawing ..
My Honda EM5000 makes a small dip when the furnace blower starts.
A more noticable dip when the 230 volt well pump starts.
Keep fresh stabilized gas on hand and test-run the generator every 3
or 4 months. Many people shut off the gas valve and run-it-dry
after use or test.
John T.

On 10/5/2019 10:27 AM, Home Guy wrote:
I see some small portable generators (3000 - 4000 watt) on sale. $450
(CAD, which is $340 USD) for a Champion generator - I think this one:

https://www.championpowerequipment.c...age-generator/

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.


If the motor uses less than the 3550 watts for running, then there isn't
a problem, but ensure the motor doesn't require more than the rated 4550
watts for startup or you'll continuously blow the internal fuse. Though,
my question is...where do you plan to keep the generator? It needs to be
vented if kept inside or people in the household will die from CO
poisoning. Even if vented, I wouldn't trust using one indoors.
Generators should always be used outdoors.

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 10:26:59 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
I see some small portable generators (3000 - 4000 watt) on sale. $450
(CAD, which is $340 USD) for a Champion generator - I think this one:

https://www.championpowerequipment.c...age-generator/

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.

I've run several furnaces over the years, including modern ones with
electronics, with no problems. No problems with anything else, eg TVs,
water heaters with electronics, etc. Only failure with a generator
that I've seen is a neighbor had a small one, maybe 2000W, and his
electronic coffee maker failed while using it.

If it's a conventional generator, about the only bad thing I can see
happening is if the voltage regulator failed and it went way over
voltage. Operating normally, you'd think it would have to be pretty
much a reasonable sine wave, just by virtue of how it's physically built.
STuff without electronics doesn't have anything sensitive. And stuff
with electronics typically has a switching power supply that will
accept a wide range of input variation.

Still, having said that, with one of those expensive ECM motors on a
new furnace, I guess I would still be a bit nervous. And maybe I'd
use the older 43" TV, instead of the new 65", if you know what I mean.

[lots snipped]

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.

While I have no personal experience, I spoke with one
of the long-term, highly regarded, drinks #6 oil for
breakfast, HVAC folk near our old home and asked him
about backup generators.

He said they had been running into problems with the
various flame/safety sensors, or possibly the ignitors,
or both (?) which monitored teensey, tiny, current
levels, and that these often shut down the furnaces
and boilers 'cuz they'd get wrong readings.

He added that it was super critical to get good
and solid grounding for everything involved.

Again, no personal experience, but it kind of
makes sense.


--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

wrote:

I would seriously suggest that you go to a slightly bigger & better
make & model - this one doesn't have any 230 volt output.
Also consider that your furnace is probably hard-wired - best to
be prepared for the generator hook-up in advance - not after the
power outage when it's dark & cold & the basement is flooding or
freezer is thawing ..

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.

I could easily rig up some wire to run the motor through the basement
wall up to the outside where I'd have this thing running. Only the
furnace would be on that circuit, disconnected from house wiring.
Wouldn't need to power the fridge in this circumstance (the back porch
would be our fridge).

My gas water heater uses no electrical power at all, not for burner and
has no draft fan.

The only other thing I'd power off the generator would be my internet /
network UPS.

So I guess the short answer is yes, they have or could power an ordinary
fractional HP electric motor.

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 11:42:13 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
wrote:

I would seriously suggest that you go to a slightly bigger & better
make & model - this one doesn't have any 230 volt output.
Also consider that your furnace is probably hard-wired - best to
be prepared for the generator hook-up in advance - not after the
power outage when it's dark & cold & the basement is flooding or
freezer is thawing ..

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.

I could easily rig up some wire to run the motor through the basement
wall up to the outside where I'd have this thing running. Only the
furnace would be on that circuit, disconnected from house wiring.
Wouldn't need to power the fridge in this circumstance (the back porch
would be our fridge).

In many cases, it's not hard to do it right with an inlet and lockout
kit for the main panel. That way you can power whatever you want in
the whole house. Only issue is if there is a lockout kit available for
the panel and an empty breaker spot. If not, in an emergency,
I know what I would do.... Actually the powering anything in the
house only applies if you have a 240V generator. With 120V, you
could power about half the things, just on one leg. Which is why I'd
agree with the recommendation to go with a 240V one. Especially if
it's more than a day, the above allows you to turn lights on and off
anywhere, normally, instead of wandering around with a flashlight in
the dark.





My gas water heater uses no electrical power at all, not for burner and
has no draft fan.

The only other thing I'd power off the generator would be my internet /
network UPS.

So I guess the short answer is yes, they have or could power an ordinary
fractional HP electric motor.

Absolutely.

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 11:07:44 AM UTC-4, danny burstein wrote:
[lots snipped]

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.

While I have no personal experience, I spoke with one
of the long-term, highly regarded, drinks #6 oil for
breakfast, HVAC folk near our old home and asked him
about backup generators.

He said they had been running into problems with the
various flame/safety sensors, or possibly the ignitors,
or both (?) which monitored teensey, tiny, current
levels, and that these often shut down the furnaces
and boilers 'cuz they'd get wrong readings.

He added that it was super critical to get good
and solid grounding for everything involved.

Again, no personal experience, but it kind of
makes sense.


Very interesting. On some of these they use a flame sensor that relies
on just a steel rod, whereby somehow the flame itself generates a
small voltage. Seems that would rely on sensing a voltage between that
rod and ground, ie EGC. And if the generator is not properly grounded to
the house ground, to the furnace, I can see how that would be a problem.
And don't ask me about the physics whereby that flame sensor works....


house ground,

In article , says...

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.



You may want to look into the dual fuel generators that run on gas or
propane. The propane stores for years. I found one like this on sale
for about $ 350 and free shipping. It will put out 120 or 240 volts.
If you only need 120 volts,you can flip a switch and parallel the 120
volt windings for twice the current. It even has a battery to start it.
You just need to charge the battey every so often if you do not use it.
It will start with the rope too if the battery is dead.

Just beware many of the camper generators only put out 120 volts and if
you ever need 240 volts you will not be able to get it.

This unit comes with everything you need but the propane tank. The
small BBQ grill size usually xost bout 30 to 40 dollars for an empty
tank and less than$ 15 to fill them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-XP4...ble-Dual-Fuel-
Propane-Gas-Camping-RV-Generator/223692061480?epid=203718508
&hash=item341515fb28:g:gAYAAOSwzgRW0vAW

They do have bigger ones.

We sledom loose power and I have a 5500 watt gas unit. I bought the
propane unit so I do not have to worry about the gas for short durations
of outage.

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 10:27:24 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

I see some small portable generators (3000 - 4000 watt) on sale. $450
(CAD, which is $340 USD) for a Champion generator - I think this one:

https://www.championpowerequipment.c...age-generator/

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.

That should be plenty to run a furnace blower and a fridge along with
some general lighting load. One trick, not exactly 100% legal is to
replace the usual 2x4 handy box with the blower disconnect with a 4x4
box. Put an "inlet" in the second bay and change the switch to a "3
way". That is essentially a poor man's transfer switch.

Then you plug in your extension cord female end into the inlet, plug
the male into your generator and flip the switch. That is all pretty
legal as long as the switch is motor rated.

Another way is to install a short power cord to the motor/controller
and replace the switch with a receptacle connected to house power. You
would unplug that and plug it into your generator powered extension
cord ... not so legal but not totally unsafe.
Both are better than back feeding an outlet.

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 12:12:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , says...

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.



You may want to look into the dual fuel generators that run on gas or
propane. The propane stores for years. I found one like this on sale
for about $ 350 and free shipping. It will put out 120 or 240 volts.
If you only need 120 volts,you can flip a switch and parallel the 120
volt windings for twice the current. It even has a battery to start it.
You just need to charge the battey every so often if you do not use it.
It will start with the rope too if the battery is dead.

Just beware many of the camper generators only put out 120 volts and if
you ever need 240 volts you will not be able to get it.

This unit comes with everything you need but the propane tank. The
small BBQ grill size usually xost bout 30 to 40 dollars for an empty
tank and less than$ 15 to fill them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-XP4...ble-Dual-Fuel-
Propane-Gas-Camping-RV-Generator/223692061480?epid=203718508
&hash=item341515fb28:g:gAYAAOSwzgRW0vAW

They do have bigger ones.

We sledom loose power and I have a 5500 watt gas unit. I bought the
propane unit so I do not have to worry about the gas for short durations
of outage.



I have a propane generator and it is not going to run very long on a
15 pound tank (AKA 20 but never true). My 5.5 KW burns 0.8 gallons an
hour. A "grille" tank would last a little over 4 hours.

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 09:08:32 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 11:07:44 AM UTC-4, danny burstein wrote:
[lots snipped]

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.

While I have no personal experience, I spoke with one
of the long-term, highly regarded, drinks #6 oil for
breakfast, HVAC folk near our old home and asked him
about backup generators.

He said they had been running into problems with the
various flame/safety sensors, or possibly the ignitors,
or both (?) which monitored teensey, tiny, current
levels, and that these often shut down the furnaces
and boilers 'cuz they'd get wrong readings.

He added that it was super critical to get good
and solid grounding for everything involved.

Again, no personal experience, but it kind of
makes sense.


Very interesting. On some of these they use a flame sensor that relies
on just a steel rod, whereby somehow the flame itself generates a
small voltage. Seems that would rely on sensing a voltage between that
rod and ground, ie EGC. And if the generator is not properly grounded to
the house ground, to the furnace, I can see how that would be a problem.
And don't ask me about the physics whereby that flame sensor works....


house ground,

If they are using the MBJ in the panel as a current path to the
thermocouple I can see that but it is not as much the "ground" (the
grounding electrode system) as the grounding conductor to the furnace
frame. OTOH the control circuit may just be using the furnace frame as
the current path in which case we are really talking about the bonding
of the thermocouple base.

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 5:11:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 09:08:32 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 11:07:44 AM UTC-4, danny burstein wrote:
[lots snipped]

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.

While I have no personal experience, I spoke with one
of the long-term, highly regarded, drinks #6 oil for
breakfast, HVAC folk near our old home and asked him
about backup generators.

He said they had been running into problems with the
various flame/safety sensors, or possibly the ignitors,
or both (?) which monitored teensey, tiny, current
levels, and that these often shut down the furnaces
and boilers 'cuz they'd get wrong readings.

He added that it was super critical to get good
and solid grounding for everything involved.

Again, no personal experience, but it kind of
makes sense.


Very interesting. On some of these they use a flame sensor that relies
on just a steel rod, whereby somehow the flame itself generates a
small voltage. Seems that would rely on sensing a voltage between that
rod and ground, ie EGC. And if the generator is not properly grounded to
the house ground, to the furnace, I can see how that would be a problem.
And don't ask me about the physics whereby that flame sensor works....


house ground,

If they are using the MBJ in the panel as a current path to the
thermocouple I can see that but it is not as much the "ground" (the
grounding electrode system) as the grounding conductor to the furnace
frame. OTOH the control circuit may just be using the furnace frame as
the current path in which case we are really talking about the bonding
of the thermocouple base.

What I had in mind was an interruption in the EGC between the furnace
burner and the portable generator. You wouldn't think that would be
easy to do, ie if you're using a standard extension cord it should be
hard to impossible. But that might account for the problem.

But then on second thought, probably not even that. The sensing circuit
for the flame rod would be between the flame rod and the ground of the
circuit board, which is tied to the furnace frame. So, I take it back,
if some people are having issues like described, IDK what the mechanism
could be. Like I said, I ran several furnaces on a generator that were
high eff, modern ones, they worked with no problems.

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 16:37:21 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 5:11:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 09:08:32 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 11:07:44 AM UTC-4, danny burstein wrote:
[lots snipped]

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.

While I have no personal experience, I spoke with one
of the long-term, highly regarded, drinks #6 oil for
breakfast, HVAC folk near our old home and asked him
about backup generators.

He said they had been running into problems with the
various flame/safety sensors, or possibly the ignitors,
or both (?) which monitored teensey, tiny, current
levels, and that these often shut down the furnaces
and boilers 'cuz they'd get wrong readings.

He added that it was super critical to get good
and solid grounding for everything involved.

Again, no personal experience, but it kind of
makes sense.


Very interesting. On some of these they use a flame sensor that relies
on just a steel rod, whereby somehow the flame itself generates a
small voltage. Seems that would rely on sensing a voltage between that
rod and ground, ie EGC. And if the generator is not properly grounded to
the house ground, to the furnace, I can see how that would be a problem.
And don't ask me about the physics whereby that flame sensor works....


house ground,

If they are using the MBJ in the panel as a current path to the
thermocouple I can see that but it is not as much the "ground" (the
grounding electrode system) as the grounding conductor to the furnace
frame. OTOH the control circuit may just be using the furnace frame as
the current path in which case we are really talking about the bonding
of the thermocouple base.

What I had in mind was an interruption in the EGC between the furnace
burner and the portable generator. You wouldn't think that would be
easy to do, ie if you're using a standard extension cord it should be
hard to impossible. But that might account for the problem.

But then on second thought, probably not even that. The sensing circuit
for the flame rod would be between the flame rod and the ground of the
circuit board, which is tied to the furnace frame. So, I take it back,
if some people are having issues like described, IDK what the mechanism
could be. Like I said, I ran several furnaces on a generator that were
high eff, modern ones, they worked with no problems.

I don't always trust HVAC techs on electrical issues. They are more
like plumbers. If there was an issue I might consider the fact that
*some* small inverter generators do not have main bonding jumpers.
(like a 2000 Honda). I am still not sure why that would affect the
thermocouple but how knows? It may have more to do with the thermostat
not getting voltage (24vac) to start the blower and the furnace sees
that. This is the wild card in all of this. The last time I had a
furnace, the 24v transformer was on the blower circuit after the
disconnect at the furnace (actually in the same box on the side of the
plenum). That was a circa 1971 house in Md. Gas appliances with no
electronics. The gas valves were fed directly from the thermocouple
through a point on the blower relay in the furnace and the thermostat
in the water heater as I recall. It was 35 years ago tho. There was no
electrical connection at all to the water heater. It just had a pilot
light.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 05 Oct 2019 11:42:39 -0400, Home Guy
wrote:

So, having read your first post, you really want it to power the whole
furnace, not just the fan.

Don't these things have actual AC generators? Not like UPSes that try
to generate a sin-wave from a battery, or auto DC converters that try to
generate a sin wave from the car's 15 volt output.

If they make actual AC, than all that matters is the wattage or amperage
rating.

wrote:

I would seriously suggest that you go to a slightly bigger & better
make & model - this one doesn't have any 230 volt output.
Also consider that your furnace is probably hard-wired - best to
be prepared for the generator hook-up in advance - not after the
power outage when it's dark & cold & the basement is flooding or
freezer is thawing ..

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

I agree with you. Unless you want to dry your laundry.

There will always be a few people here who will always to upsell
posters, you should add this or that.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's

Right. When I buy tools I'll probably never need, I buy cheap ones. I
don't know where you are but I believe you that you'll probably never
need this.

a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.

That's good. I'm going camping next month. Will you have it by then?

If you get a camouflage generator, like this one is, you have to be
careful that you don't lose it. Always keep the extension cord plugged
in.

Some of them are incredibly quiet, although by suggesting this, I too am
trying to upsell you.

(I looked at the picture and im sure that's too big to be as quiet as
the little ones I was talking about.)

I could easily rig up some wire to run the motor through the basement
wall up to the outside where I'd have this thing running. Only the
furnace would be on that circuit, disconnected from house wiring.
Wouldn't need to power the fridge in this circumstance (the back porch
would be our fridge).

I'm too lazy to use the outside, but I've found the food stays cold,
even frozen, for 3 days, even if I open the fridge a few times.

And the house too stays warm enough in 30 degree weather outside for 3
days. During which time you can work on the wiring. Make ssure you
have the wire itself in advance. I guess heavy duty extension cords,
and after that, some way to conect to the furnace, while disconnecting
it from the house.

My gas water heater uses no electrical power at all, not for burner and
has no draft fan.

The only other thing I'd power off the generator would be my internet /
network UPS.

They don't use much. But they're probably not near the furnace, so
more extension cords and a so-called cube-tap.

My whole oil furnace, including air circulation fan, igniter transformer
and fan and oil pump, and tiny bit of circuity uses a 15-amp breaker, so
I'm sure your fan doesn't use more than 15 amps, 1700 watts or so.

So I guess the short answer is yes, they have or could power an ordinary
fractional HP electric motor.

Go to bed at sundown, get up at dawn and use flashlights for the rest of
the time. Wear muckalucks.

On 10/5/19 10:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
If it's a conventional generator, about the only bad thing I can see
happening is if the voltage regulator failed and it went way over
voltage.


I've always wondered if corroded connections on a generators twist-lock receptacle (that's vibrating like crazy) causes an intermittent connection.

And what happens if the generator is feeding an unbalanced load on L1 and L2 and the vibrating neutral connection is intermittent?

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:47:17 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 05 Oct 2019 11:42:39 -0400, Home Guy
wrote:

So, having read your first post, you really want it to power the whole
furnace, not just the fan.

Don't these things have actual AC generators? Not like UPSes that try
to generate a sin-wave from a battery, or auto DC converters that try to
generate a sin wave from the car's 15 volt output.

If they make actual AC, than all that matters is the wattage or amperage
rating.

wrote:

I would seriously suggest that you go to a slightly bigger & better
make & model - this one doesn't have any 230 volt output.
Also consider that your furnace is probably hard-wired - best to
be prepared for the generator hook-up in advance - not after the
power outage when it's dark & cold & the basement is flooding or
freezer is thawing ..

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

I agree with you. Unless you want to dry your laundry.

There will always be a few people here who will always to upsell
posters, you should add this or that.

It's not really much of an "up-sell" to buy a lockout kit for the main
panel and install an inlet instead of rewiring the furnace. And that
plus a 240V generator will let you very conveniently power whatever
in the house you choose to power, within the rating of generator.
You manage the loads from the panel. Seems much more preferable to me
than rewiring the furnace, then having an extension cord for it, plus
extension cords and power strips for any other loads you want. And
then the bathroom light switch still doesn't work.

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:34:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On 10/5/19 10:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
If it's a conventional generator, about the only bad thing I can see
happening is if the voltage regulator failed and it went way over
voltage.


I've always wondered if corroded connections on a generators twist-lock receptacle (that's vibrating like crazy) causes an intermittent connection.

And what happens if the generator is feeding an unbalanced load on L1 and L2 and the vibrating neutral connection is intermittent?


Well, we know that would be bad, very bad. I've never seen any study
of what the power actually looks like and what all problems people
encounter. The only direct experience I've seen is a neighbor having
the electronic coffee maker go kaput when using it plugged in to his
very small generator. And I've read of a lot of people having troubles
with using generators that have GFCI on the main 240V output, because
the generator has the neutral bonded to the frame and the house does
too. That causes the generator GFCI to immediately trip.

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've never seen any study
of what the power actually looks like and what all problems people
encounter.

Now you have. This is the wave form of a cheap 5.5kw Briggs generator
with about 98% load on it.

http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Waveform.jpg

This shoots the hell out of the theory that you need to derate the
generator because you are running on propane ... at least the 5.5
Briggs anyway. Maybe they just oversized the engine tho.
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg

That is 5402 watts. Over 98% of rating.

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 12:51:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've never seen any study
of what the power actually looks like and what all problems people
encounter.

Now you have. This is the wave form of a cheap 5.5kw Briggs generator
with about 98% load on it.

http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Waveform.jpg

Looks mighty fine to me.



This shoots the hell out of the theory that you need to derate the
generator because you are running on propane ... at least the 5.5
Briggs anyway. Maybe they just oversized the engine tho.
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg

That is 5402 watts. Over 98% of rating.

I see it's only 230V though. With gas would you have 240V? That
would be another 4%. like you imply, it could vary from generator to
generator too.

On 10/5/19 4:05 PM, wrote:

[snip]

I have a propane generator and it is not going to run very long on a
15 pound tank (AKA 20 but never true). My 5.5 KW burns 0.8 gallons an
hour. A "grille" tank would last a little over 4 hours.

I had one filled, and weighed it. 36.6 pounds - the tare weight (16.6) =
20 pounds of propane. Another tank held only 19 pounds, still a lot more
than the 15 you get at exchange places.

--
80 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

If a member of McDonalds' staff was God:

"OK, one Universe. Uh, you want
fries with that?"

On 10/6/19 1:21 AM, wrote:

[snip]

Gas appliances with no
electronics. The gas valves were fed directly from the thermocouple
through a point on the blower relay in the furnace and the thermostat
in the water heater as I recall. It was 35 years ago tho. There was no
electrical connection at all to the water heater. It just had a pilot
light.

I thought I heard something about making standing pilot lights illegal.

--
"A fool speaks because he has to say something, but a wise man speaks
because he has something to say." -- Confucius

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:56:19 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 10/6/19 1:21 AM, wrote:

[snip]

Gas appliances with no
electronics. The gas valves were fed directly from the thermocouple
through a point on the blower relay in the furnace and the thermostat
in the water heater as I recall. It was 35 years ago tho. There was no
electrical connection at all to the water heater. It just had a pilot
light.

I thought I heard something about making standing pilot lights illegal.

--
"A fool speaks because he has to say something, but a wise man speaks
because he has something to say." -- Confucius

It wouldn't surprise me. We're already paying more because they had to
make them so they are resistant to blowing up the place if you fill
the place up with gasoline or similar fumes. The main advantage to the
pilot light and no blower ones is they cost less and you have hot water
without power.

In article , lid says...
have a propane generator and it is not going to run very long on a
15 pound tank (AKA 20 but never true). My 5.5 KW burns 0.8 gallons an
hour. A "grille" tank would last a little over 4 hours.

I had one filled, and weighed it. 36.6 pounds - the tare weight (16.6) =
20 pounds of propane. Another tank held only 19 pounds, still a lot more
than the 15 you get at exchange places.



I have heard the exchange places like Blue Rhino only put about 15
pounds in the 20 pound tanks. I go to Tractor supply and they claim to
weight the propane and charge by the ammount.

My generator is rated for about 3500 watts on gas and 3000 on propane.
The 4 gallon tank claims 10 hours on gas and 9 hours on a 20 pound tank
of propane at 1/2 load.

I do have a 5 kw gas unit that I have had for about 15 years, but have
not used it long enough to know how long it will run. I bought the
smaller unit because of dual fuel and a lower power unit will usually
run longer on the same ammount of fuel if it is not loaded very heavy.
All so with the propane if the power is only out for a couple of hours I
do not have to fool with the gasoline and the storage problems.

On 10/6/2019 11:51 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've never seen any study
of what the power actually looks like and what all problems people
encounter.
Now you have. This is the wave form of a cheap 5.5kw Briggs generator
with about 98% load on it.

http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Waveform.jpg

This shoots the hell out of the theory that you need to derate the
generator because you are running on propane ... at least the 5.5
Briggs anyway. Maybe they just oversized the engine tho.
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg

That is 5402 watts. Over 98% of rating.

Â* Is that the "Storm Responder" model B&S generator ? Did you get a
snapshot of the waveform at a lower load ? I dunno what you call cheap ,
mine cost me around 900 bucks several years ago .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 11:20:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 12:51:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've never seen any study
of what the power actually looks like and what all problems people
encounter.

Now you have. This is the wave form of a cheap 5.5kw Briggs generator
with about 98% load on it.

http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Waveform.jpg

Looks mighty fine to me.



This shoots the hell out of the theory that you need to derate the
generator because you are running on propane ... at least the 5.5
Briggs anyway. Maybe they just oversized the engine tho.
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg

That is 5402 watts. Over 98% of rating.

I see it's only 230V though. With gas would you have 240V? That
would be another 4%. like you imply, it could vary from generator to
generator too.


Funny you should ask No. it is the same
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Ongasoline.jpg

The frequency is determined by the engine RPM and the voltage will not
change, no matter what fuel you use to get that RPM under that load.

That is my big beef with this generator. It only puts out 115/230 and
I can't find anything to adjust or change to make that 120/240.
By the time that gets 100' away to the fridge at the other end of the
house that is 109 or so, hence this guy.
Next time I will be able to dial that up. That fridge seemed to be the
only thing struggling.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 15:31:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , lid says...
have a propane generator and it is not going to run very long on a
15 pound tank (AKA 20 but never true). My 5.5 KW burns 0.8 gallons an
hour. A "grille" tank would last a little over 4 hours.

I had one filled, and weighed it. 36.6 pounds - the tare weight (16.6) =
20 pounds of propane. Another tank held only 19 pounds, still a lot more
than the 15 you get at exchange places.



I have heard the exchange places like Blue Rhino only put about 15
pounds in the 20 pound tanks. I go to Tractor supply and they claim to
weight the propane and charge by the ammount.

My generator is rated for about 3500 watts on gas and 3000 on propane.
The 4 gallon tank claims 10 hours on gas and 9 hours on a 20 pound tank
of propane at 1/2 load.

I do have a 5 kw gas unit that I have had for about 15 years, but have
not used it long enough to know how long it will run. I bought the
smaller unit because of dual fuel and a lower power unit will usually
run longer on the same ammount of fuel if it is not loaded very heavy.
All so with the propane if the power is only out for a couple of hours I
do not have to fool with the gasoline and the storage problems.

I have a 120 gallon tank buried in the yard. That is good for about 6
days. (24/7 at pretty much full load)
I do not see any drop in output on propane either. Maybe the engine on
mine is just oversized for the generator head or something. The
difference shows up in fuel consumption. 0.5 GPH gasoline vs 0.8 GPM
on propane. This is based on an 8 day outage where I was running half
gasoline and half time on propane so I got a pretty good test.

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 14:43:41 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 10/6/2019 11:51 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've never seen any study
of what the power actually looks like and what all problems people
encounter.
Now you have. This is the wave form of a cheap 5.5kw Briggs generator
with about 98% load on it.

http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Waveform.jpg

This shoots the hell out of the theory that you need to derate the
generator because you are running on propane ... at least the 5.5
Briggs anyway. Maybe they just oversized the engine tho.
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg

That is 5402 watts. Over 98% of rating.

Â* Is that the "Storm Responder" model B&S generator ? Did you get a
snapshot of the waveform at a lower load ? I dunno what you call cheap ,
mine cost me around 900 bucks several years ago .

I am not sure this has a name like that but I got it for $300 second
hand, still in the box. A guy bought it after Charley and 10 years
later he sold it to me. It sat in my garage for 3 before it ever ran.
I had the parts but I put the propane kit on it after Irma, in the
blackout. It only took about a half hour tho and I was back up again.
I didn't look at it unloaded with the scope but I was watching voltage
during the outage and it was steady at 115/230.

I also added these loops after the cleanup was over from Irma so I can
check each leg of the 230 to be sure I am balancing the load. I had to
open up the panel to do it during the blackout.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Gene...connection.jpg

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 7:59:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 11:20:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 12:51:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've never seen any study
of what the power actually looks like and what all problems people
encounter.

Now you have. This is the wave form of a cheap 5.5kw Briggs generator
with about 98% load on it.

http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Waveform.jpg

Looks mighty fine to me.



This shoots the hell out of the theory that you need to derate the
generator because you are running on propane ... at least the 5.5
Briggs anyway. Maybe they just oversized the engine tho.
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg

That is 5402 watts. Over 98% of rating.

I see it's only 230V though. With gas would you have 240V? That
would be another 4%. like you imply, it could vary from generator to
generator too.


Funny you should ask No. it is the same
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Ongasoline.jpg

The frequency is determined by the engine RPM and the voltage will not
change, no matter what fuel you use to get that RPM under that load.

That is my big beef with this generator. It only puts out 115/230 and
I can't find anything to adjust or change to make that 120/240.
By the time that gets 100' away to the fridge at the other end of the
house that is 109 or so, hence this guy.
Next time I will be able to dial that up. That fridge seemed to be the
only thing struggling.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.


I suppose it's also possible that it's simply maxed out

On 10/6/2019 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 14:43:41 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 10/6/2019 11:51 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've never seen any study
of what the power actually looks like and what all problems people
encounter.
Now you have. This is the wave form of a cheap 5.5kw Briggs generator
with about 98% load on it.

http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Waveform.jpg

This shoots the hell out of the theory that you need to derate the
generator because you are running on propane ... at least the 5.5
Briggs anyway. Maybe they just oversized the engine tho.
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg

That is 5402 watts. Over 98% of rating.
Â* Is that the "Storm Responder" model B&S generator ? Did you get a
snapshot of the waveform at a lower load ? I dunno what you call cheap ,
mine cost me around 900 bucks several years ago .
I am not sure this has a name like that but I got it for $300 second
hand, still in the box. A guy bought it after Charley and 10 years
later he sold it to me. It sat in my garage for 3 before it ever ran.
I had the parts but I put the propane kit on it after Irma, in the
blackout. It only took about a half hour tho and I was back up again.
I didn't look at it unloaded with the scope but I was watching voltage
during the outage and it was steady at 115/230.

I also added these loops after the cleanup was over from Irma so I can
check each leg of the 230 to be sure I am balancing the load. I had to
open up the panel to do it during the blackout.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Gene...connection.jpg

Â* Mine's routed thru the shop sub panel to the main and we only run
minimal loads so I don't worry about balance . Lights , fridge , TV and
internet/computer stuff is all we usually run when on emergency power .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.

Home Guy wrote:
I see some small portable generators (3000 - 4000 watt) on sale. $450
(CAD, which is $340 USD) for a Champion generator - I think this one:

https://www.championpowerequipment.c...age-generator/

My furnace has a conventional AC blower motor - not sure if it's PSC or
some other type. It's either 1/3 or 1/2 hp and doesn't have a large
capacitor either built into it or wired up near by. My 40-year-old
furnace otherwise has NO electronics other than the gas-valve soleniod.
No draft inducers, sensors, vent fans, etc.

Anyone ever run such a motor from one of these small generators?

Just thinking of picking up a generator to run my furnace
(intermittently) in case of any extended winter power outage.

I have not but start up current could be measured. My switched fan a bit
more than 300 watts which seems very efficient, and it ramps up in speed
slowly. About 3 amps I think on heat speed.

Greg

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 18:19:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 7:59:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 11:20:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 12:51:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've never seen any study
of what the power actually looks like and what all problems people
encounter.

Now you have. This is the wave form of a cheap 5.5kw Briggs generator
with about 98% load on it.

http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Waveform.jpg

Looks mighty fine to me.



This shoots the hell out of the theory that you need to derate the
generator because you are running on propane ... at least the 5.5
Briggs anyway. Maybe they just oversized the engine tho.
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg

That is 5402 watts. Over 98% of rating.

I see it's only 230V though. With gas would you have 240V? That
would be another 4%. like you imply, it could vary from generator to
generator too.


Funny you should ask No. it is the same
http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Ongasoline.jpg

The frequency is determined by the engine RPM and the voltage will not
change, no matter what fuel you use to get that RPM under that load.

That is my big beef with this generator. It only puts out 115/230 and
I can't find anything to adjust or change to make that 120/240.
By the time that gets 100' away to the fridge at the other end of the
house that is 109 or so, hence this guy.
Next time I will be able to dial that up. That fridge seemed to be the
only thing struggling.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.


I suppose it's also possible that it's simply maxed out

I don't even see a regulator or a board. It must be inside the
generator head. There are just 3 wires coming out that go to the box
with the receptacles. You can bring the voltage up by spinning the
generator faster but it isn't 60 hz anymore. The voltage is 115/230 no
matter what the load is so there is a regulator somewhere. There
doesn't seem to be a lot of documentation on this.

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:07:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.

This one has a bracket that the governor spring hooks to with about 2
dozen holes and you just pick the one that puts the right tension on
the spring.

On 10/6/19 2:22 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 2:56:19 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 10/6/19 1:21 AM, wrote:

[snip]

Gas appliances with no
electronics. The gas valves were fed directly from the thermocouple
through a point on the blower relay in the furnace and the thermostat
in the water heater as I recall. It was 35 years ago tho. There was no
electrical connection at all to the water heater. It just had a pilot
light.

I thought I heard something about making standing pilot lights illegal.

--
"A fool speaks because he has to say something, but a wise man speaks
because he has something to say." -- Confucius

It wouldn't surprise me. We're already paying more because they had to
make them so they are resistant to blowing up the place if you fill
the place up with gasoline or similar fumes. The main advantage to the
pilot light and no blower ones is they cost less and you have hot water
without power.


I lived in a house long ago that had a floor furnace that
worked without
any external power. It was sure nice because we had a power outage
that lasted
a week or so and snow on the ground. A late March storm put power
lines on
the ground in a pretty large area.

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 11:07:35 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

That's one way of trying to change the voltage, but I doubt it would
work. Absent a voltage regulator, changing the speed would change the
voltage, but it will also change the frequency. I would think there
must also be some voltage regulating circuit in there that adjusts
the rotor field to maintain the proper voltage as the load varies.
I know that's how it's done on the home Generac standby generators and
it makes sense. And if it has a VR, then changing the speed should not
change the voltage.





I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.

In article ,
says...

I don't even see a regulator or a board. It must be inside the
generator head. There are just 3 wires coming out that go to the box
with the receptacles. You can bring the voltage up by spinning the
generator faster but it isn't 60 hz anymore. The voltage is 115/230 no
matter what the load is so there is a regulator somewhere. There
doesn't seem to be a lot of documentation on this.



The older generators do not have an electronic voltage regulator. They
rely on the governor of the engine to keep the speed/voltage/frequecny
constant.

The newer ones do have an electronic regulator. Here is an example of
how to adjust them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHgH7k-Hu0

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 10:33:08 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I don't even see a regulator or a board. It must be inside the
generator head. There are just 3 wires coming out that go to the box
with the receptacles. You can bring the voltage up by spinning the
generator faster but it isn't 60 hz anymore. The voltage is 115/230 no
matter what the load is so there is a regulator somewhere. There
doesn't seem to be a lot of documentation on this.



The older generators do not have an electronic voltage regulator. They
rely on the governor of the engine to keep the speed/voltage/frequecny
constant.


If so, then Fretwell must have one that's screwed by design or somehow
faulty, because it's only putting out 230V at 60 hz.







The newer ones do have an electronic regulator. Here is an example of
how to adjust them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHgH7k-Hu0

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:32:59 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I don't even see a regulator or a board. It must be inside the
generator head. There are just 3 wires coming out that go to the box
with the receptacles. You can bring the voltage up by spinning the
generator faster but it isn't 60 hz anymore. The voltage is 115/230 no
matter what the load is so there is a regulator somewhere. There
doesn't seem to be a lot of documentation on this.



The older generators do not have an electronic voltage regulator. They
rely on the governor of the engine to keep the speed/voltage/frequecny
constant.

The newer ones do have an electronic regulator. Here is an example of
how to adjust them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHgH7k-Hu0


I am going to look for that. It does make more sense than thinking
there is no voltage regulator. I knew it had to be inside the
generator head somewhere. I wasn't going to take my generator apart
during the outage and even after the power came back, I still had far
more important things to do. All I did with the generator was change
the oil before I put it away. I guess I will put this on my list of
things to look at. Thanks.

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 09:45:05 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 10:33:08 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I don't even see a regulator or a board. It must be inside the
generator head. There are just 3 wires coming out that go to the box
with the receptacles. You can bring the voltage up by spinning the
generator faster but it isn't 60 hz anymore. The voltage is 115/230 no
matter what the load is so there is a regulator somewhere. There
doesn't seem to be a lot of documentation on this.



The older generators do not have an electronic voltage regulator. They
rely on the governor of the engine to keep the speed/voltage/frequecny
constant.


If so, then Fretwell must have one that's screwed by design or somehow
faulty, because it's only putting out 230V at 60 hz.


I think Ralph has the answer. I already said if there is a regulator,
and my load tests seem to confirm there is, it must be inside the
generator head. Now that I actually see one, I know what to look for.
I am also not shocked that they set it for 115/230. That was the
convention for years. I still might be tempted to leave it alone since
everything but one fridge seems OK where it was. bumping up the
voltage will cause some things to use more power and I am right at the
tripping point now.
If the city is successful in moving us to municipal water I won't need
as much capacity tho because I will lose 1.5 HP worth of pump load.





The newer ones do have an electronic regulator. Here is an example of
how to adjust them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHgH7k-Hu0