In article ,
says...


I think Ralph has the answer. I already said if there is a regulator,
and my load tests seem to confirm there is, it must be inside the
generator head. Now that I actually see one, I know what to look for.
I am also not shocked that they set it for 115/230. That was the
convention for years. I still might be tempted to leave it alone since
everything but one fridge seems OK where it was. bumping up the
voltage will cause some things to use more power and I am right at the
tripping point now.
If the city is successful in moving us to municipal water I won't need
as much capacity tho because I will lose 1.5 HP worth of pump load.





I did not do a very good study of them , but it looks to me like you set
the speed of the generator for 60 hz ( probably under some load) and
then you adjust the voltage regulator to the desired voltage.

It may depend on how old your generator is. I don't think my 20 year
old one has the voltage regulator, but the one I bought a few months ago
does. The little 700 watt HF unit only has a motor speed adjustment
screw and it does not seem too reliable as to holding the voltage from
one start up to the next. I bought it mostly to power electric tools
away from the house and to light up a small shed that I don't think it
is worth while running power to. Now I have a larger generator with
wheels on it, I know I will not run power to that shed.

On 10/6/19 2:22 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

The main advantage to the
pilot light and no blower ones is they cost less and you have hot water
without power.

Which has been really important to me during a power outage on a really
cold day. It would have been much worse with no way to warm up.

--
79 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Two hands working do more than a thousand clasped in prayer

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 14:44:37 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


I think Ralph has the answer. I already said if there is a regulator,
and my load tests seem to confirm there is, it must be inside the
generator head. Now that I actually see one, I know what to look for.
I am also not shocked that they set it for 115/230. That was the
convention for years. I still might be tempted to leave it alone since
everything but one fridge seems OK where it was. bumping up the
voltage will cause some things to use more power and I am right at the
tripping point now.
If the city is successful in moving us to municipal water I won't need
as much capacity tho because I will lose 1.5 HP worth of pump load.





I did not do a very good study of them , but it looks to me like you set
the speed of the generator for 60 hz ( probably under some load) and
then you adjust the voltage regulator to the desired voltage.

It may depend on how old your generator is. I don't think my 20 year
old one has the voltage regulator, but the one I bought a few months ago
does. The little 700 watt HF unit only has a motor speed adjustment
screw and it does not seem too reliable as to holding the voltage from
one start up to the next. I bought it mostly to power electric tools
away from the house and to light up a small shed that I don't think it
is worth while running power to. Now I have a larger generator with
wheels on it, I know I will not run power to that shed.


This one seems pretty stable with voltage and frequency over the load
range, zero to max so it has to have a voltage regulator.
My bet is it looks pretty much like your You Tube example.

I am different in my philosophy. I will run power anywhere I think I
might need it. There is no place in my yard that you are more than 50
feet from 120v and water. Most places it is more like 25 or less. The
shed and dock have power.
Most of this got put in with my pool since the yard was torn up
anyway. Between receptacles and lights, I ran almost a half mile of
THHN/THWN in pipe. The pipes I ran are stuffed tho so hooking up other
stuff is trivial at this point.

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 11:42:39 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

wrote:

I would seriously suggest that you go to a slightly bigger & better
make & model - this one doesn't have any 230 volt output.
Also consider that your furnace is probably hard-wired - best to
be prepared for the generator hook-up in advance - not after the
power outage when it's dark & cold & the basement is flooding or
freezer is thawing ..

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.

I could easily rig up some wire to run the motor through the basement
wall up to the outside where I'd have this thing running. Only the
furnace would be on that circuit, disconnected from house wiring.
Wouldn't need to power the fridge in this circumstance (the back porch
would be our fridge).

My gas water heater uses no electrical power at all, not for burner and
has no draft fan.

The only other thing I'd power off the generator would be my internet /
network UPS.

So I guess the short answer is yes, they have or could power an ordinary
fractional HP electric motor.
Exactly what my brother did. He wired the furnace through a DPDT
switch to flip between grid and generator - and had several generator
only outlets on the main floor of the house to run some lights and
plug in small appliances.

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 17:05:59 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 12:12:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , says...

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.



You may want to look into the dual fuel generators that run on gas or
propane. The propane stores for years. I found one like this on sale
for about $ 350 and free shipping. It will put out 120 or 240 volts.
If you only need 120 volts,you can flip a switch and parallel the 120
volt windings for twice the current. It even has a battery to start it.
You just need to charge the battey every so often if you do not use it.
It will start with the rope too if the battery is dead.

Just beware many of the camper generators only put out 120 volts and if
you ever need 240 volts you will not be able to get it.

This unit comes with everything you need but the propane tank. The
small BBQ grill size usually xost bout 30 to 40 dollars for an empty
tank and less than$ 15 to fill them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-XP4...ble-Dual-Fuel-
Propane-Gas-Camping-RV-Generator/223692061480?epid=203718508
&hash=item341515fb28:g:gAYAAOSwzgRW0vAW

They do have bigger ones.

We sledom loose power and I have a 5500 watt gas unit. I bought the
propane unit so I do not have to worry about the gas for short durations
of outage.



I have a propane generator and it is not going to run very long on a
15 pound tank (AKA 20 but never true). My 5.5 KW burns 0.8 gallons an
hour. A "grille" tank would last a little over 4 hours.
Which is wny I have an NG connector as well as propane on mine - - -

On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 02:47:11 -0400, micky
wrote:
SNIPP

The only other thing I'd power off the generator would be my internet /
network UPS.

They don't use much. But they're probably not near the furnace, so
more extension cords and a so-called cube-tap.

Mine are about 6 feet apart - but I have an interlock on my panel so
it's not an issue. 240 volt genny too - --

My whole oil furnace, including air circulation fan, igniter transformer
and fan and oil pump, and tiny bit of circuity uses a 15-amp breaker, so
I'm sure your fan doesn't use more than 15 amps, 1700 watts or so.

So I guess the short answer is yes, they have or could power an ordinary
fractional HP electric motor.

Go to bed at sundown, get up at dawn and use flashlights for the rest of
the time. Wear muckalucks.

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:07:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.
That adjusts frequency only - voltage is controlled by a (usually)
solid state regulator which is (again generally) not adjustable

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:23:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:07:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.

This one has a bracket that the governor spring hooks to with about 2
dozen holes and you just pick the one that puts the right tension on
the spring.
That spring adjustment does not adjust the SPEED - it adjusts the
response to load change - in most cases. One whole one way from proper
and it sags, one hole the other way and it over-shoots

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:11:28 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 17:05:59 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 12:12:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , says...

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.



You may want to look into the dual fuel generators that run on gas or
propane. The propane stores for years. I found one like this on sale
for about $ 350 and free shipping. It will put out 120 or 240 volts.
If you only need 120 volts,you can flip a switch and parallel the 120
volt windings for twice the current. It even has a battery to start it.
You just need to charge the battey every so often if you do not use it.
It will start with the rope too if the battery is dead.

Just beware many of the camper generators only put out 120 volts and if
you ever need 240 volts you will not be able to get it.

This unit comes with everything you need but the propane tank. The
small BBQ grill size usually xost bout 30 to 40 dollars for an empty
tank and less than$ 15 to fill them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-XP4...ble-Dual-Fuel-
Propane-Gas-Camping-RV-Generator/223692061480?epid=203718508
&hash=item341515fb28:g:gAYAAOSwzgRW0vAW

They do have bigger ones.

We sledom loose power and I have a 5500 watt gas unit. I bought the
propane unit so I do not have to worry about the gas for short durations
of outage.



I have a propane generator and it is not going to run very long on a
15 pound tank (AKA 20 but never true). My 5.5 KW burns 0.8 gallons an
hour. A "grille" tank would last a little over 4 hours.
Which is wny I have an NG connector as well as propane on mine - - -

You need to retune the load block when you switch from propane to NG
so it is really not just moving the hose

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:25:05 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:23:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:07:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.

This one has a bracket that the governor spring hooks to with about 2
dozen holes and you just pick the one that puts the right tension on
the spring.
That spring adjustment does not adjust the SPEED - it adjusts the
response to load change - in most cases. One whole one way from proper
and it sags, one hole the other way and it over-shoots

It certainly does adjust the speed and thus also the frequency. The
governor only looks at a vane in the cooling hood and the spring
tension is what determines how that vane adjusts the throttle plate.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:35:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:11:28 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 17:05:59 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 12:12:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , says...

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.



You may want to look into the dual fuel generators that run on gas or
propane. The propane stores for years. I found one like this on sale
for about $ 350 and free shipping. It will put out 120 or 240 volts.
If you only need 120 volts,you can flip a switch and parallel the 120
volt windings for twice the current. It even has a battery to start it.
You just need to charge the battey every so often if you do not use it.
It will start with the rope too if the battery is dead.

Just beware many of the camper generators only put out 120 volts and if
you ever need 240 volts you will not be able to get it.

This unit comes with everything you need but the propane tank. The
small BBQ grill size usually xost bout 30 to 40 dollars for an empty
tank and less than$ 15 to fill them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-XP4...ble-Dual-Fuel-
Propane-Gas-Camping-RV-Generator/223692061480?epid=203718508
&hash=item341515fb28:g:gAYAAOSwzgRW0vAW

They do have bigger ones.

We sledom loose power and I have a 5500 watt gas unit. I bought the
propane unit so I do not have to worry about the gas for short durations
of outage.



I have a propane generator and it is not going to run very long on a
15 pound tank (AKA 20 but never true). My 5.5 KW burns 0.8 gallons an
hour. A "grille" tank would last a little over 4 hours.
Which is wny I have an NG connector as well as propane on mine - - -

You need to retune the load block when you switch from propane to NG
so it is really not just moving the hose
Yes you do - but that is a minor inconvenience when you run out of
propane - - - -

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:39:10 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:25:05 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:23:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:07:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.

This one has a bracket that the governor spring hooks to with about 2
dozen holes and you just pick the one that puts the right tension on
the spring.
That spring adjustment does not adjust the SPEED - it adjusts the
response to load change - in most cases. One whole one way from proper
and it sags, one hole the other way and it over-shoots

It certainly does adjust the speed and thus also the frequency. The
governor only looks at a vane in the cooling hood and the spring
tension is what determines how that vane adjusts the throttle plate.
Onlyu on the cheapest of engines, MOST use a flyball governor in the
crankcase - and although moving the spring DOES change the RPM the
MAIN effect is to change the response.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:59:25 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:35:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:11:28 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 17:05:59 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 12:12:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , says...

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.



You may want to look into the dual fuel generators that run on gas or
propane. The propane stores for years. I found one like this on sale
for about $ 350 and free shipping. It will put out 120 or 240 volts.
If you only need 120 volts,you can flip a switch and parallel the 120
volt windings for twice the current. It even has a battery to start it.
You just need to charge the battey every so often if you do not use it.
It will start with the rope too if the battery is dead.

Just beware many of the camper generators only put out 120 volts and if
you ever need 240 volts you will not be able to get it.

This unit comes with everything you need but the propane tank. The
small BBQ grill size usually xost bout 30 to 40 dollars for an empty
tank and less than$ 15 to fill them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-XP4...ble-Dual-Fuel-
Propane-Gas-Camping-RV-Generator/223692061480?epid=203718508
&hash=item341515fb28:g:gAYAAOSwzgRW0vAW

They do have bigger ones.

We sledom loose power and I have a 5500 watt gas unit. I bought the
propane unit so I do not have to worry about the gas for short durations
of outage.



I have a propane generator and it is not going to run very long on a
15 pound tank (AKA 20 but never true). My 5.5 KW burns 0.8 gallons an
hour. A "grille" tank would last a little over 4 hours.
Which is wny I have an NG connector as well as propane on mine - - -

You need to retune the load block when you switch from propane to NG
so it is really not just moving the hose
Yes you do - but that is a minor inconvenience when you run out of
propane - - - -

If you have NG, why screw with propane in the first place. It is god
awful expensive compared to piped gas. If they would run a gas pipe
down my street I would hook up in a heartbeat.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 18:01:37 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:39:10 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:25:05 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:23:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:07:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.

This one has a bracket that the governor spring hooks to with about 2
dozen holes and you just pick the one that puts the right tension on
the spring.
That spring adjustment does not adjust the SPEED - it adjusts the
response to load change - in most cases. One whole one way from proper
and it sags, one hole the other way and it over-shoots

It certainly does adjust the speed and thus also the frequency. The
governor only looks at a vane in the cooling hood and the spring
tension is what determines how that vane adjusts the throttle plate.
Onlyu on the cheapest of engines, MOST use a flyball governor in the
crankcase - and although moving the spring DOES change the RPM the
MAIN effect is to change the response.

I am not sure what you mean by response but this thing has about 30
holes and EVERY ONE changes the engine speed.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 20:19:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:59:25 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:35:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:11:28 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 17:05:59 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 12:12:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , says...

I'm only considering this because (a) it's relatively cheap today and
(b) if I ever did need it, then so would several thousand other people
and there'd be none on the shelf in that case.

Absolutely no need for 220v.

Only considering it if I'd be in the middle of a multi-day (or longer)
power failure in winter, otherwise this thing would be sitting in the
box, possibly for the next 5 to 10 years or who knows how long. So it's
a pretty end-of-the-world type situation that I'd put it to use. Truth
is I'd probably end up loaning it to friends/family going camping before
I'd put it to this anticipated emergency use.



You may want to look into the dual fuel generators that run on gas or
propane. The propane stores for years. I found one like this on sale
for about $ 350 and free shipping. It will put out 120 or 240 volts.
If you only need 120 volts,you can flip a switch and parallel the 120
volt windings for twice the current. It even has a battery to start it.
You just need to charge the battey every so often if you do not use it.
It will start with the rope too if the battery is dead.

Just beware many of the camper generators only put out 120 volts and if
you ever need 240 volts you will not be able to get it.

This unit comes with everything you need but the propane tank. The
small BBQ grill size usually xost bout 30 to 40 dollars for an empty
tank and less than$ 15 to fill them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-XP4...ble-Dual-Fuel-
Propane-Gas-Camping-RV-Generator/223692061480?epid=203718508
&hash=item341515fb28:g:gAYAAOSwzgRW0vAW

They do have bigger ones.

We sledom loose power and I have a 5500 watt gas unit. I bought the
propane unit so I do not have to worry about the gas for short durations
of outage.



I have a propane generator and it is not going to run very long on a
15 pound tank (AKA 20 but never true). My 5.5 KW burns 0.8 gallons an
hour. A "grille" tank would last a little over 4 hours.
Which is wny I have an NG connector as well as propane on mine - - -

You need to retune the load block when you switch from propane to NG
so it is really not just moving the hose
Yes you do - but that is a minor inconvenience when you run out of
propane - - - -

If you have NG, why screw with propane in the first place. It is god
awful expensive compared to piped gas. If they would run a gas pipe
down my street I would hook up in a heartbeat.
Because my generator does not produce as much power on NG as on
Propane and being a portable unit it IS nice to have a portable fuel
supply.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 20:21:32 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 18:01:37 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:39:10 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:25:05 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:23:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:07:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.

This one has a bracket that the governor spring hooks to with about 2
dozen holes and you just pick the one that puts the right tension on
the spring.
That spring adjustment does not adjust the SPEED - it adjusts the
response to load change - in most cases. One whole one way from proper
and it sags, one hole the other way and it over-shoots

It certainly does adjust the speed and thus also the frequency. The
governor only looks at a vane in the cooling hood and the spring
tension is what determines how that vane adjusts the throttle plate.
Onlyu on the cheapest of engines, MOST use a flyball governor in the
crankcase - and although moving the spring DOES change the RPM the
MAIN effect is to change the response.

I am not sure what you mean by response but this thing has about 30
holes and EVERY ONE changes the engine speed.
Governor response is how much the throttle opens when the RPM drops
a given amount - too little response and speed lags under load. Too
much response and speed increases under load - in other words it
either undershoots or overshoots.
: governor hunting orsurging up and down. Most of the time this is not the problem of thegovernor, but a partially plugged carburetor, usually a pluggedidle circuit or worn linkage. If you can rule out these causes andhave checked the adjustments I talked about above, then you may havea governor that is set too sensitive. In other words it reacts tooquickly and over compensates for the speed. Many governor arms haveseveral holes in the arm to change sensitivity. By moving thegovernor spring to a hole further away from the governor shaft youwill make it less sensitive. Before playing with this, check therepair manual for the engine you have and see if it has a way of adjusting sensitivity. Sometimes you may have to change governorsprings, etc.
see:
http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...djustment.html
for more information.

Basically adjusting the STRENTH of the spring regulates the RPM -
adjusting the length of the generator arm regulates the governor
response.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 23:44:57 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 20:21:32 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 18:01:37 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:39:10 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:25:05 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:23:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:07:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.




Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.

This one has a bracket that the governor spring hooks to with about 2
dozen holes and you just pick the one that puts the right tension on
the spring.
That spring adjustment does not adjust the SPEED - it adjusts the
response to load change - in most cases. One whole one way from proper
and it sags, one hole the other way and it over-shoots

It certainly does adjust the speed and thus also the frequency. The
governor only looks at a vane in the cooling hood and the spring
tension is what determines how that vane adjusts the throttle plate.
Onlyu on the cheapest of engines, MOST use a flyball governor in the
crankcase - and although moving the spring DOES change the RPM the
MAIN effect is to change the response.

I am not sure what you mean by response but this thing has about 30
holes and EVERY ONE changes the engine speed.
Governor response is how much the throttle opens when the RPM drops
a given amount - too little response and speed lags under load. Too
much response and speed increases under load - in other words it
either undershoots or overshoots.
: governor hunting orsurging up and down. Most of the time this is not the problem of thegovernor, but a partially plugged carburetor, usually a pluggedidle circuit or worn linkage. If you can rule out these causes andhave checked the adjustments I talked about above, then you may havea governor that is set too sensitive. In other words it reacts tooquickly and over compensates for the speed. Many governor arms haveseveral holes in the arm to change sensitivity. By moving thegovernor spring to a hole further away from the governor shaft youwill make it less sensitive. Before playing with this, check therepair manual for the engine you have and see if it has a way of adjusting sensitivity. Sometimes you may have to change governorsprings, etc.
see:
http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...djustment.html
for more information.

Basically adjusting the STRENTH of the spring regulates the RPM -
adjusting the length of the generator arm regulates the governor
response.

The holes are in the fixed bracket the spring hooks on, not the arm.
That does change the tension on the spring

In article ,
says...

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.
That adjusts frequency only - voltage is controlled by a (usually)
solid state regulator which is (again generally) not adjustable



I doubt the HG generator has the regulator. I put a volt meter on mine
and the speed adjustment changes the voltage. By the same token, the
frequency changes too.

The electronic regulators are probably on the larger generators and
newer ones. If you call 10 or 20 years newer.

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 10:47:33 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.
That adjusts frequency only - voltage is controlled by a (usually)
solid state regulator which is (again generally) not adjustable



I doubt the HG generator has the regulator. I put a volt meter on mine
and the speed adjustment changes the voltage. By the same token, the
frequency changes too.

The electronic regulators are probably on the larger generators and
newer ones. If you call 10 or 20 years newer.


I had on OLD Onan genset - so old it did not have a recoil starter and
was an 1800RPM single - and the voltage barely changed from 1200 to
2000 RPM, but the frequency sure did. The governor was mis-adjusted
when I got it and it over corrected seriously - it would surge like
crazy under load. I finally got the linkage corrected and it was
pretty much rock steady under load after it was warmed up. Voltage was
steady untill loaded beyond it's maximum current rating - where the
engine would tend to bog down and stall. When the generatoe went into
a surge the light intensity did change ernough that you could see it -
but not seriously

In article ,
says...

The electronic regulators are probably on the larger generators and
newer ones. If you call 10 or 20 years newer.


I had on OLD Onan genset - so old it did not have a recoil starter and
was an 1800RPM single - and the voltage barely changed from 1200 to
2000 RPM, but the frequency sure did. The governor was mis-adjusted
when I got it and it over corrected seriously - it would surge like
crazy under load. I finally got the linkage corrected and it was
pretty much rock steady under load after it was warmed up. Voltage was
steady untill loaded beyond it's maximum current rating - where the
engine would tend to bog down and stall. When the generatoe went into
a surge the light intensity did change ernough that you could see it -
but not seriously



My Coleman 5 kw I bought about 1999 does not have a any electronic
regulation. It is just controled by the govenor. I did set the speed
under a portable heater of about 1500 watts and 120 volts for a load.
The speed control changd both the frequency and voltage. I used an old
viberating reed frequency meter and a true RMS Fluke meter to do the
adjusting.

My newer dual fuel I bought a few months back does have the electronic
regulator module. It was very close, so I did not look for adjustemnts
on it.

My B&S 5 kw generator does not show any electronic regulator either on
the wiring diagram. It is about 10 years old. Hate to say it, but I
have not even ran it. I bought it when I thought the first one had
engine problems, but turned out it did not .

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 16:28:08 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The electronic regulators are probably on the larger generators and
newer ones. If you call 10 or 20 years newer.


I had on OLD Onan genset - so old it did not have a recoil starter and
was an 1800RPM single - and the voltage barely changed from 1200 to
2000 RPM, but the frequency sure did. The governor was mis-adjusted
when I got it and it over corrected seriously - it would surge like
crazy under load. I finally got the linkage corrected and it was
pretty much rock steady under load after it was warmed up. Voltage was
steady untill loaded beyond it's maximum current rating - where the
engine would tend to bog down and stall. When the generatoe went into
a surge the light intensity did change ernough that you could see it -
but not seriously



My Coleman 5 kw I bought about 1999 does not have a any electronic
regulation. It is just controled by the govenor. I did set the speed
under a portable heater of about 1500 watts and 120 volts for a load.
The speed control changd both the frequency and voltage. I used an old
viberating reed frequency meter and a true RMS Fluke meter to do the
adjusting.

My newer dual fuel I bought a few months back does have the electronic
regulator module. It was very close, so I did not look for adjustemnts
on it.

My B&S 5 kw generator does not show any electronic regulator either on
the wiring diagram. It is about 10 years old. Hate to say it, but I
have not even ran it. I bought it when I thought the first one had
engine problems, but turned out it did not .



That sounds like the Briggs 5.5 I have but there must be some kind of
regulator because the voltage is steady from no load to full load. The
You Tube says it is inside the generator head. I just have not had
time to look. I really don't want to screw with it until the Gulf gets
below 80f. (AKA 26.5 up in the frozen north)

I think that engine must be somewhat oversized too because I do not
see any fall off in performance between gasoline and propane. It will
get up to a high enough current to trip the breaker on either one
(~25a) and the voltage is steady at 115/230. That is 5.7kva

On 10/19/2019 10:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 20:21:32 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 18:01:37 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:39:10 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:25:05 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:23:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:07:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
No way to find the voltage sensing circuit that controls the voltage.
There must be a circuit that drives the current to the rotor.
See what it's doing, maybe put a resistor in series to trick it out?
Probably no schematics that show what the board or boards do though.



Most of the simple generators only have a governed speed control. There
is usually a mechanical adjustment for this somewhere in the 'fixed
throttle'.

I have not looked over my 5 kw generator in a while, but my little 700
watt Harbor Freight does have an adjustment screw that can set the speed
of the engine.
This one has a bracket that the governor spring hooks to with about 2
dozen holes and you just pick the one that puts the right tension on
the spring.
That spring adjustment does not adjust the SPEED - it adjusts the
response to load change - in most cases. One whole one way from proper
and it sags, one hole the other way and it over-shoots
It certainly does adjust the speed and thus also the frequency. The
governor only looks at a vane in the cooling hood and the spring
tension is what determines how that vane adjusts the throttle plate.
Onlyu on the cheapest of engines, MOST use a flyball governor in the
crankcase - and although moving the spring DOES change the RPM the
MAIN effect is to change the response.
I am not sure what you mean by response but this thing has about 30
holes and EVERY ONE changes the engine speed.
Governor response is how much the throttle opens when the RPM drops
a given amount - too little response and speed lags under load. Too
much response and speed increases under load - in other words it
either undershoots or overshoots.
: governor hunting orsurging up and down. Most of the time this is not the problem of thegovernor, but a partially plugged carburetor, usually a pluggedidle circuit or worn linkage. If you can rule out these causes andhave checked the adjustments I talked about above, then you may havea governor that is set too sensitive. In other words it reacts tooquickly and over compensates for the speed. Many governor arms haveseveral holes in the arm to change sensitivity. By moving thegovernor spring to a hole further away from the governor shaft youwill make it less sensitive. Before playing with this, check therepair manual for the engine you have and see if it has a way of adjusting sensitivity. Sometimes you may have to change governorsprings, etc.
see:
http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...djustment.html
for more information.

Basically adjusting the STRENTH of the spring regulates the RPM -
adjusting the length of the generator arm regulates the governor
response.

Â* You're talking about changing the length (the ratio) of the arm ,
he's talking about changing the length and therefor the tension on the
spring . Two related but different things . Yer BOTHÂ* right !

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

Very interesting. On some of these they use a flame sensor that relies
on just a steel rod, whereby somehow the flame itself generates a
small voltage. Seems that would rely on sensing a voltage between that
rod and ground, ie EGC. And if the generator is not properly grounded to
the house ground, to the furnace, I can see how that would be a problem.
And don't ask me about the physics whereby that flame sensor works....




Trader, some electronic controls NEED the neutral power line (white wire) to be at or near the same voltage as the safety ground (green wire) or else they will throw an error code.

If the neutral and ground are bonded together in the generator as they should be, it should work fine.

Mark

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 06:44:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Very interesting. On some of these they use a flame sensor that relies
on just a steel rod, whereby somehow the flame itself generates a
small voltage. Seems that would rely on sensing a voltage between that
rod and ground, ie EGC. And if the generator is not properly grounded to
the house ground, to the furnace, I can see how that would be a problem.
And don't ask me about the physics whereby that flame sensor works....




Trader, some electronic controls NEED the neutral power line (white wire) to be at or near the same voltage as the safety ground (green wire) or else they will throw an error code.

If the neutral and ground are bonded together in the generator as they should be, it should work fine.

Mark
Some engineers are lazy, and the accountants win out - so the flame
sensor only uses one wire, resorting to the "chassis ground" for
return. If the chassis ground and the neutral are at different
potential, the controller mis-reads the sensor foltage and determines
that the flame has gone out - so it shuts off the gas and the flame
DOES go out.

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 9:44:25 AM UTC-4, wrote:

Very interesting. On some of these they use a flame sensor that relies
on just a steel rod, whereby somehow the flame itself generates a
small voltage. Seems that would rely on sensing a voltage between that
rod and ground, ie EGC. And if the generator is not properly grounded to
the house ground, to the furnace, I can see how that would be a problem.
And don't ask me about the physics whereby that flame sensor works....




Trader, some electronic controls NEED the neutral power line (white wire) to be at or near the same voltage as the safety ground (green wire) or else they will throw an error code.

If the neutral and ground are bonded together in the generator as they should be, it should work fine.

Mark

I agree. But that doesn't sound like what Danny was talking about,
he was pointing the finger at flames sensors. A code for an incoming
power problem would set a different code. But then the whole thing
was vague, so who knows. I also later posted that I don't see how
the flame sensor would be sensitive to any of this, because they are
on the DC side of the power, a rod type would rely on detecting a
very small voltage between the rod and metal frame of the furnace
on the DC side and I don't see how that could be affected by a
generator. Also there sure a lot of people using generators with
furnaces and this is the first I've ever heard of anything like this.
So Fretwell maybe right, anecdotal, second had reports from one HVAC
guy, who knows what was really going on.

As to the neutral and ground being bonded together in the generator,
that's only correct if you're using extension cords. If the generator
is wired into the panel, then unless the neutral is also switched,
which few are, the neutral at the generator is not to be bonded
to ground there, if you follow code. Also, from what I can gather,
most generators have the neutral and ground bonded from the factory,
but some do not. And if you have one that is bonded and it includes
GFCI on the main output that you're connecting to the house panel,
then unless you have a switched neutral at the panel, the GFCI will
trip as soon as it's connected and turned on. Some people have their
generators set up with the neutral and ground not bonded and then use
a shorting plug that makes that connection when using the generator as
a portable.

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 10:08:04 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 06:44:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Very interesting. On some of these they use a flame sensor that relies
on just a steel rod, whereby somehow the flame itself generates a
small voltage. Seems that would rely on sensing a voltage between that
rod and ground, ie EGC. And if the generator is not properly grounded to
the house ground, to the furnace, I can see how that would be a problem.
And don't ask me about the physics whereby that flame sensor works....




Trader, some electronic controls NEED the neutral power line (white wire) to be at or near the same voltage as the safety ground (green wire) or else they will throw an error code.

If the neutral and ground are bonded together in the generator as they should be, it should work fine.

Mark
Some engineers are lazy, and the accountants win out - so the flame
sensor only uses one wire, resorting to the "chassis ground" for
return. If the chassis ground and the neutral are at different
potential, the controller mis-reads the sensor foltage and determines
that the flame has gone out - so it shuts off the gas and the flame
DOES go out.

The flame sensor is with the electronics, on the DC side, and one would
expect that the DC side would be tied to ground via the metal frame
of the furnace. It has to be to complete a circuit for the flame
sensor to work. So, I'm not seeing how a difference in potential
between the neutral and ground would be an issue. For that matter,
there is typically a varying difference in voltage between them
all the time. It will depend on the current flow in the neutral,
which changes. So, if the furnace is sensitive to that, why doesn't
it trip frequently on line power too?

In trader_4 writes:

I agree. But that doesn't sound like what Danny was talking about,
he was pointing the finger at flames sensors. A code for an incoming
power problem would set a different code. But then the whole thing
was vague, so who knows.

Danny, in his original comment, emphasized he was quoting
from one of the local HVAC installers (a legitimately highly
regarded group) regarding problems with standby generators
and heating systems, and didn't have direct, first hand, experience.



--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

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