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#1
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20
amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan to run. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different models- but both were marked "Slater 15 amp". One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them out. With the new switches installed, the fan is working right. At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? -- When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. - Benjamin Franklin |
#2
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 11:13:17 AM UTC-4, Wade Gattett wrote:
Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan to run. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different models- but both were marked "Slater 15 amp". One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them out. With the new switches installed, the fan is working right. At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? -- When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. - Benjamin Franklin I believe the answer is that the switch is sized to the load, not the breaker. So 15A is OK. It's hard to imagine a fault condition where a 15A switch is going to create a safety hazard in that application. As to whether a 15A switch contributed to your switch failure, I'd say yes and no, mostly no. Your small fan load is nowhere near the limit of either a 15A or 20A switch. But a 20A switch may be built a bit heftier, might take more openings and closing, etc than a 15A one, so a 20A one might have lasted longer. There are also differences among 15A switches, ie a cheap chinese one or a better spec grade one, (probably from China too |
#3
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
Wade Gattett wrote:
Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. Why would a ceiling can need a 20-amp switch? At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. Why would a sub use a switch that's twice the price - just because it costs more? Why would he not use a switch that would work just fine (a 15 amp switch) and put the difference in his pocket? On a side note - When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive) - ? |
#4
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
In article , says...
On a side note - When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? In the US what is normally referred to as a '3 way switch' in a building is a single pole double throw. They do no thave a middle off, but just an off/on position like any light switch would normally have. From the outside of the switch you could not tell the difference. They are most often used for lights. You have a room with 2 doors. You put one switch at each door. Then you can turn the light off and on from either switch. That is you could walk in one door, turn the light on, walk out the other door and turn the light off. http://www.electrical101.com/3way-sw...-nm-cable.html There is also a '4 way switch' . That is for more than 2 places to turn on/off a light (or anything else). You usually put a 3 way switch at each end of the circuit and as many 4 way switches in the middle as you need. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#5
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 12:59:29 -0400, Home Guy wrote:
Wade Gattett wrote: Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. Why would a ceiling can need a 20-amp switch? At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. Why would a sub use a switch that's twice the price - just because it costs more? Why would he not use a switch that would work just fine (a 15 amp switch) and put the difference in his pocket? On a side note - When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive) - ? A "three way" switch is a SPDT switch used in pairs to switch a device from 2 different locations. Have never seen a center off SPDT switch in paddle or decora in Canada - the odd momemtary contact (click one way for on and one way for off for low voltage remote control - or this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...6-GY/301447158 Which is an "industrial grade" switch - can't think offhand where one would use one in a house - - - - |
#6
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:13:12 -0400, Wade Gattett
wrote: At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. Maybe, but it seems to have lasted 33 years. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? -- When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. - Benjamin Franklin This is one of a series of conservative sentiments attributed to the US founding fathers or other great historical figures that they never said. And which were actually first said by conservatives in the 2nd half of the 20th century or later. https://fakefoundersquotes.tumblr.co...ote-themselves https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria..._that/d2r6lhl/ One screen down on this page, a sentence with the same meaning is attributed to De Toqueville, but he never said it either. Nor did Alexander Hamilton, another one to whom it's attributed. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ection/321393/ |
#7
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 20:31:22 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote: On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 12:59:29 -0400, Home Guy wrote: Wade Gattett wrote: Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. Why would a ceiling can need a 20-amp switch? At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. Why would a sub use a switch that's twice the price - just because it costs more? Why would he not use a switch that would work just fine (a 15 amp switch) and put the difference in his pocket? On a side note - When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive) - ? A "three way" switch is a SPDT switch used in pairs to switch a device from 2 different locations. Have never seen a center off SPDT switch in paddle or decora in Canada - the odd momemtary contact (click one way for on and one way for off for low voltage remote control - or this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...6-GY/301447158 Which is an "industrial grade" switch - can't think offhand where one would use one in a house - - - - I have seen them but they are god awful expensive and only in decora. |
#8
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 21:00:29 -0400, micky
wrote: In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:13:12 -0400, Wade Gattett wrote: At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. Maybe, but it seems to have lasted 33 years. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? -- When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. - Benjamin Franklin This is one of a series of conservative sentiments attributed to the US founding fathers or other great historical figures that they never said. And which were actually first said by conservatives in the 2nd half of the 20th century or later. https://fakefoundersquotes.tumblr.co...ote-themselves https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria..._that/d2r6lhl/ One screen down on this page, a sentence with the same meaning is attributed to De Toqueville, but he never said it either. Nor did Alexander Hamilton, another one to whom it's attributed. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ection/321393/ This is another one bouncing around on the interweb with dubious citation "About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government." "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." "From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship." "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years" "During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence: 1. from bondage to spiritual faith; 2. from spiritual faith to great courage; 3. from courage to liberty; 4. from liberty to abundance; 5. from abundance to complacency; 6. from complacency to apathy; 7. from apathy to dependence; 8. from dependence back into bondage" |
#9
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
Clare Snyder wrote:
I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive)? A "three way" switch is a SPDT switch used in pairs to switch a device from 2 different locations. Have never seen a center off SPDT switch in paddle or decora in Canada the odd momemtary contact (click one way for on and one way for off for low voltage remote control - or this one: Single-Pole-Double-Throw-Center-Off-Momentary-Contact There is a leviton constant-contact (not momentary contact) center off and like I said home despot US has them ($50 - $60 if I recall). can't think offhand where one would use one in a house - - - - I wanted to control an attic fan. I wanted 3 options: Off, On, and Auto. Auto means the fan is controlled by the thermostat in the attic. A SPDT with center off would do this, but none are available. I ended up using one of those double switches (2 SPST single-gang). Available in paddle and decora, and relatively cheap (I think $17). |
#10
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 9/14/19 1:49 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
[snip] There is also a '4 way switch' . That is for more than 2 places to turn on/off a light (or anything else). You usually put a 3 way switch at each end of the circuit and as many 4 way switches in the middle as you need. It is essentially a DPDT (double pole, double throw) switch with 2 pairs of terminals connected internally, so switching exchanges 2 connections. [SPAM snipped] -- 101 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." [Robert Heinlein, "Notebooks of Lazarus Long"] |
#11
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? What I heard is that its called "3-way" because wires are run to 3 locations (2 switches and light/fan). If you have three switches, its 4-way. I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive) - ? A double-throw switch does have center off, although it can be difficult to get the switch into that position (a spring tries to pull it away from the center). I have had this happen accidentally, one switch in this (center) position means the light can't be turned on at the other location. -- 101 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." [Robert Heinlein, "Notebooks of Lazarus Long"] |
#12
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 12:12:43 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? What I heard is that its called "3-way" because wires are run to 3 locations (2 switches and light/fan). If you have three switches, its 4-way. +1 I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive) - ? A double-throw switch does have center off, although it can be difficult to get the switch into that position (a spring tries to pull it away from the center). I have had this happen accidentally, one switch in this (center) position means the light can't be turned on at the other location. That's not really true. Sounds like you had a particular switch that could be positioned in between, in an unstable position. Some switches have a center-off and if they do, it's clearly a detent position and the switch is spec's as having a center off. If they don't then I guess it depends on the design, how easy it is to get it into a position it's not really meant to be in. -- 101 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." [Robert Heinlein, "Notebooks of Lazarus Long"] |
#13
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 9/15/2019 11:30 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 12:12:43 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote: When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? What I heard is that its called "3-way" because wires are run to 3 locations (2 switches and light/fan). If you have three switches, its 4-way. +1 .... But if there are four or more switches, they're not "N-way"... -- |
#14
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:21:45 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 9/15/2019 11:30 AM, trader_4 wrote: On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 12:12:43 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote: When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? What I heard is that its called "3-way" because wires are run to 3 locations (2 switches and light/fan). If you have three switches, its 4-way. +1 ... But if there are four or more switches, they're not "N-way"... -- Seems to me that they are all N-way. We come up with a definition for the N-way case and uniformly apply it. And like Mark said, N was determined by how many locations the wires had to be run to, eg one light, two switches is 3 way. Which then leads to what really is a light with one switch? I'd say that if you analyze it, apply a uniform definition, then it's two ways, though for whatever reason, it's not commonly referred to as that. |
#15
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:36:57 -0400, Home Guy wrote:
Clare Snyder wrote: I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive)? A "three way" switch is a SPDT switch used in pairs to switch a device from 2 different locations. Have never seen a center off SPDT switch in paddle or decora in Canada the odd momemtary contact (click one way for on and one way for off for low voltage remote control - or this one: Single-Pole-Double-Throw-Center-Off-Momentary-Contact There is a leviton constant-contact (not momentary contact) center off and like I said home despot US has them ($50 - $60 if I recall). can't think offhand where one would use one in a house - - - - I wanted to control an attic fan. I wanted 3 options: Off, On, and Auto. Auto means the fan is controlled by the thermostat in the attic. A SPDT with center off would do this, but none are available. I ended up using one of those double switches (2 SPST single-gang). Available in paddle and decora, and relatively cheap (I think $17). My deal was a two speed ceiling fan (whole house deal). It was common, hi, lo. so a 3 way was a natural for speed (SPDT) but you still need an off. I had a 4" box there anyway so I went with 2 switches. Being a motor load I did go for spec grade, motor rated switches but I was still out the door for $5 or so for two (a regular 3 way and an SPST) snap switches in Decora. |
#16
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:30:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 12:12:43 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote: When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? What I heard is that its called "3-way" because wires are run to 3 locations (2 switches and light/fan). If you have three switches, its 4-way. +1 I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive) - ? A double-throw switch does have center off, although it can be difficult to get the switch into that position (a spring tries to pull it away from the center). I have had this happen accidentally, one switch in this (center) position means the light can't be turned on at the other location. That's not really true. Sounds like you had a particular switch that could be positioned in between, in an unstable position. Some switches have a center-off and if they do, it's clearly a detent position and the switch is spec's as having a center off. If they don't then I guess it depends on the design, how easy it is to get it into a position it's not really meant to be in. When they are 59 cents in a barrel on the end cap, who would think it could just be bad? Or part of batch of a 1000 bad ones because even the Chinese have trouble finding good help. Mass production = Mass mistakes. (See any recall) -- 101 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." [Robert Heinlein, "Notebooks of Lazarus Long"] |
#17
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 21:00:29 -0400, micky
wrote: In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:13:12 -0400, Wade Gattett wrote: At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. Maybe, but it seems to have lasted 33 years. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? -- When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. - Benjamin Franklin This is one of a series of conservative sentiments attributed to the US founding fathers or other great historical figures that they never said. And which were actually first said by conservatives in the 2nd half of the 20th century or later. https://fakefoundersquotes.tumblr.co...ote-themselves https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria..._that/d2r6lhl/ One screen down on this page, a sentence with the same meaning is attributed to De Toqueville, but he never said it either. Nor did Alexander Hamilton, another one to whom it's attributed. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ection/321393/ At least not that has been recorded - any or all MAY have said it some time or other "off the record" |
#19
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:36:57 -0400, Home Guy wrote:
Clare Snyder wrote: I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive)? A "three way" switch is a SPDT switch used in pairs to switch a device from 2 different locations. Have never seen a center off SPDT switch in paddle or decora in Canada the odd momemtary contact (click one way for on and one way for off for low voltage remote control - or this one: Single-Pole-Double-Throw-Center-Off-Momentary-Contact There is a leviton constant-contact (not momentary contact) center off and like I said home despot US has them ($50 - $60 if I recall). can't think offhand where one would use one in a house - - - - I wanted to control an attic fan. I wanted 3 options: Off, On, and Auto. Auto means the fan is controlled by the thermostat in the attic. A SPDT with center off would do this, but none are available. I ended up using one of those double switches (2 SPST single-gang). Available in paddle and decora, and relatively cheap (I think $17). Generally that would be accomplished using a bat-handle type switch supplied by the fan manufacturer or the control manufacturer - but 2 switches in parallel would do the job too |
#20
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:27:12 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote: On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 22:14:30 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 20:31:22 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 12:59:29 -0400, Home Guy wrote: Wade Gattett wrote: Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. Why would a ceiling can need a 20-amp switch? At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. Why would a sub use a switch that's twice the price - just because it costs more? Why would he not use a switch that would work just fine (a 15 amp switch) and put the difference in his pocket? On a side note - When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive) - ? A "three way" switch is a SPDT switch used in pairs to switch a device from 2 different locations. Have never seen a center off SPDT switch in paddle or decora in Canada - the odd momemtary contact (click one way for on and one way for off for low voltage remote control - or this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...6-GY/301447158 Which is an "industrial grade" switch - can't think offhand where one would use one in a house - - - - I have seen them but they are god awful expensive and only in decora. What would you use such a switch for??? I can think of many industrial uses. I gave you one, switching a single phase 3 wire multi speed motor. |
#21
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:30:52 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote: On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:36:57 -0400, Home Guy wrote: Clare Snyder wrote: I was looking for either a paddle or decora-style 3-way (with center off) but they're not available at home despot (canada) but they are in the US, and they're like $50. I seem to remember them being more common years ago (and not so expensive)? A "three way" switch is a SPDT switch used in pairs to switch a device from 2 different locations. Have never seen a center off SPDT switch in paddle or decora in Canada the odd momemtary contact (click one way for on and one way for off for low voltage remote control - or this one: Single-Pole-Double-Throw-Center-Off-Momentary-Contact There is a leviton constant-contact (not momentary contact) center off and like I said home despot US has them ($50 - $60 if I recall). can't think offhand where one would use one in a house - - - - I wanted to control an attic fan. I wanted 3 options: Off, On, and Auto. Auto means the fan is controlled by the thermostat in the attic. A SPDT with center off would do this, but none are available. I ended up using one of those double switches (2 SPST single-gang). Available in paddle and decora, and relatively cheap (I think $17). Generally that would be accomplished using a bat-handle type switch supplied by the fan manufacturer or the control manufacturer - but 2 switches in parallel would do the job too Most people (wives) don't want a bat handle switch in their hall. |
#22
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 9/15/2019 4:01 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:21:45 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 9/15/2019 11:30 AM, trader_4 wrote: On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 12:12:43 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote: When you say "3-way" - do you mean 2-pole center thow - with center off? A switch that can be set to 3 different physical positions? What I heard is that its called "3-way" because wires are run to 3 locations (2 switches and light/fan). If you have three switches, its 4-way. +1 ... But if there are four or more switches, they're not "N-way"... -- Seems to me that they are all N-way. We come up with a definition for the N-way case and uniformly apply it. And like Mark said, N was determined by how many locations the wires had to be run to, eg one light, two switches is 3 way. Which then leads to what really is a light with one switch? I'd say that if you analyze it, apply a uniform definition, then it's two ways, though for whatever reason, it's not commonly referred to as that. If you have two-phase power, you can also use a 3-way switch as a phase switch. Connect L1 to one of the traveler screws. Connect L2 to the remaining traveler screw. Connect the load's black wire to the third screw. Connect the load's white wire to neutral. Now just toggle the switch to switch the load between the two phases. |
#23
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
In article ,
says... wanted to control an attic fan. I wanted 3 options: Off, On, and Auto. Auto means the fan is controlled by the thermostat in the attic. A SPDT with center off would do this, but none are available. I ended up using one of those double switches (2 SPST single-gang). Available in paddle and decora, and relatively cheap (I think $17). Generally that would be accomplished using a bat-handle type switch supplied by the fan manufacturer or the control manufacturer - but 2 switches in parallel would do the job too Most people (wives) don't want a bat handle switch in their hall. The attic fan where I used to live had a switch for 'on, off, timer'. You turned it on all the time , cut it off, or there was a timer next to the switch. It was on a flat plate about the size of most light switches, but the switch was large and almost flat. You pushed it in toward the wall for off or timer and it stayed in the middle for off. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#24
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:40:48 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... wanted to control an attic fan. I wanted 3 options: Off, On, and Auto. Auto means the fan is controlled by the thermostat in the attic. A SPDT with center off would do this, but none are available. I ended up using one of those double switches (2 SPST single-gang). Available in paddle and decora, and relatively cheap (I think $17). Generally that would be accomplished using a bat-handle type switch supplied by the fan manufacturer or the control manufacturer - but 2 switches in parallel would do the job too Most people (wives) don't want a bat handle switch in their hall. The attic fan where I used to live had a switch for 'on, off, timer'. You turned it on all the time , cut it off, or there was a timer next to the switch. It was on a flat plate about the size of most light switches, but the switch was large and almost flat. You pushed it in toward the wall for off or timer and it stayed in the middle for off. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus For a timer many just have the time rand a "bypass" switch, Don.t need anything more - the timer is on (timed) or off. The bypass is on or off. If the bypass is on it doesn't matter what the timer is set to - it is ON. With timer off and bypass off, it is OFF. both fit in a tandem box |
#25
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:40:48 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... wanted to control an attic fan. I wanted 3 options: Off, On, and Auto. Auto means the fan is controlled by the thermostat in the attic. A SPDT with center off would do this, but none are available. I ended up using one of those double switches (2 SPST single-gang). Available in paddle and decora, and relatively cheap (I think $17). Generally that would be accomplished using a bat-handle type switch supplied by the fan manufacturer or the control manufacturer - but 2 switches in parallel would do the job too Most people (wives) don't want a bat handle switch in their hall. The attic fan where I used to live had a switch for 'on, off, timer'. You turned it on all the time , cut it off, or there was a timer next to the switch. It was on a flat plate about the size of most light switches, but the switch was large and almost flat. You pushed it in toward the wall for off or timer and it stayed in the middle for off. In addition to the thermostatic switch, my roof fan has two switches in one box, mounted sideways. One switch turns it On when it would be off. This was recommended for use after a hot shower which fills the attic with humidity, but I don't take hot showers. One switch turns on Off when it would be on. I use this in late fall and early spring to let the sun heat the house and save on fuel to heat it. Or when it's so hot out that the fan would run all night (but then I usually forget to turn it on the next morning.) Normally the first switch if off and the second On. With a line on each one whose parts are in-ine when they are set normally. But what I should have put in is a timer, because sometimes it is so hot out at night that the attic never cools off enough to stop the fan, and it runs from about 11 in the morning to at least 9PM the following day. There is no point to the fan's running if it's as hot outside as it is in the attic. It only happens a few days a year but it annoys me. So I may put in a timer wall switch. I think it will have to be one that doesn't need a neutral, because I don't think I ran a neutral (from the fan to these two switches). It would have been easier if I'd done it in the first place. So maybe I won't do it. |
#26
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:26:08 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote: On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 21:00:29 -0400, micky wrote: In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:13:12 -0400, Wade Gattett wrote: At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. Maybe, but it seems to have lasted 33 years. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? -- When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. - Benjamin Franklin This is one of a series of conservative sentiments attributed to the US founding fathers or other great historical figures that they never said. And which were actually first said by conservatives in the 2nd half of the 20th century or later. https://fakefoundersquotes.tumblr.co...ote-themselves https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria..._that/d2r6lhl/ One screen down on this page, a sentence with the same meaning is attributed to De Toqueville, but he never said it either. Nor did Alexander Hamilton, another one to whom it's attributed. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ection/321393/ At least not that has been recorded - any or all MAY have said it some time or other "off the record" If it wasn't recorded, how did the conservatives mannage to find a version attributed to the various people they attributed it to. Face it, they made up the quote. The otherwise almost unknown Scot who said something similar, who was cited in another post, was pessimistic about democracy in general. He thought all democracies were doomed and this was just one stage each would go through. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. He has no history of being a great man. But more importantly, almost no one has heard of him. To attribute something to him wouldn't give it the status that they hope to get who attribute it to someone famous who did NOT say it. That's the purpose of a forgery. |
#27
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 9/14/19 11:13 AM, Wade Gattett wrote:
Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan to run. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different models- but both were marked "Slater 15 amp". One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them out. With the new switches installed, the fan is working right. At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? OP here- Umm, interesting bunch of posts. I didn't see any answers, though, to my original questions about using a 15A switch on a 20A circuit and might that usage have contributed to the switch's failure... -- Somewhere along the line, politicians discovered it's more fun to tell people how to live than it is to fix potholes. - @patsajak |
#28
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 8:13:11 AM UTC-4, Wade Gattett wrote:
On 9/14/19 11:13 AM, Wade Gattett wrote: Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan to run. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different models- but both were marked "Slater 15 amp". One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them out. With the new switches installed, the fan is working right. At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? OP here- Umm, interesting bunch of posts. I didn't see any answers, though, to my original questions about using a 15A switch on a 20A circuit and might that usage have contributed to the switch's failure... -- Somewhere along the line, politicians discovered it's more fun to tell people how to live than it is to fix potholes. - @patsajak Missed this? I made the first response. 'I believe the answer is that the switch is sized to the load, not the breaker. So 15A is OK. It's hard to imagine a fault condition where a 15A switch is going to create a safety hazard in that application. As to whether a 15A switch contributed to your switch failure, I'd say yes and no, mostly no. Your small fan load is nowhere near the limit of either a 15A or 20A switch. But a 20A switch may be built a bit heftier, might take more openings and closing, etc than a 15A one, so a 20A one might have lasted longer. There are also differences among 15A switches, ie a cheap chinese one or a better spec grade one, (probably from China too " |
#29
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 3:29:31 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:40:48 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... wanted to control an attic fan. I wanted 3 options: Off, On, and Auto. Auto means the fan is controlled by the thermostat in the attic. A SPDT with center off would do this, but none are available. I ended up using one of those double switches (2 SPST single-gang). Available in paddle and decora, and relatively cheap (I think $17). Generally that would be accomplished using a bat-handle type switch supplied by the fan manufacturer or the control manufacturer - but 2 switches in parallel would do the job too Most people (wives) don't want a bat handle switch in their hall. The attic fan where I used to live had a switch for 'on, off, timer'. You turned it on all the time , cut it off, or there was a timer next to the switch. It was on a flat plate about the size of most light switches, but the switch was large and almost flat. You pushed it in toward the wall for off or timer and it stayed in the middle for off. In addition to the thermostatic switch, my roof fan has two switches in one box, mounted sideways. One switch turns it On when it would be off. This was recommended for use after a hot shower which fills the attic with humidity, but I don't take hot showers. Why does taking a shower fill the attic with humidity? Bathroom fan venting into the attic instead of outside? Something is very wrong there. One switch turns on Off when it would be on. I use this in late fall and early spring to let the sun heat the house and save on fuel to heat it. Or when it's so hot out that the fan would run all night (but then I usually forget to turn it on the next morning.) Normally the first switch if off and the second On. With a line on each one whose parts are in-ine when they are set normally. But what I should have put in is a timer, because sometimes it is so hot out at night that the attic never cools off enough to stop the fan, and it runs from about 11 in the morning to at least 9PM the following day. There is no point to the fan's running if it's as hot outside as it is in the attic. It only happens a few days a year but it annoys me. So I may put in a timer wall switch. I think it will have to be one that doesn't need a neutral, because I don't think I ran a neutral (from the fan to these two switches). It would have been easier if I'd done it in the first place. So maybe I won't do it. The attic fan switch is set too low. And adequate natural ventilation, eg ridge vent with soffit venting is better. I'll bet you could turn it off from about 8PM until the next morning and not see any difference with the temperature inside. And if you do, something else is wrong, eg inadequate insulation. |
#30
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
[snip] That's not really true. Sounds like you had a particular switch that could be positioned in between, in an unstable position. Some switches have a center-off and if they do, it's clearly a detent position and the switch is spec's as having a center off. If they don't then I guess it depends on the design, how easy it is to get it into a position it's not really meant to be in. Why consider "unstable" to mean not there? An OFF position is a necessary consequence of the switch breaking one connection before establishing the other connection. -- 100 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "WARNING! Literal belief in this book may endanger your health and your life." |
#31
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 9:53:46 AM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
[snip] That's not really true. Sounds like you had a particular switch that could be positioned in between, in an unstable position. Some switches have a center-off and if they do, it's clearly a detent position and the switch is spec's as having a center off. If they don't then I guess it depends on the design, how easy it is to get it into a position it's not really meant to be in. Why consider "unstable" to mean not there? An OFF position is a necessary consequence of the switch breaking one connection before establishing the other connection. This is what you described: "A double-throw switch does have center off, although it can be difficult to get the switch into that position (a spring tries to pull it away from the center). I have had this happen accidentally, one switch in this (center) position means the light can't be turned on at the other location. " That is unstable, it's not what the switch was designed to do, it's not reliable. Suppose it's a switch for a mixer or similar, you put the switch in the middle position, assuming that's off, and go to work on it? A switch with a center off position has a detent so it goes into the off position and stays there, it doesn't have a spring trying to pull it from an unstable position to one of it's stable positions. |
#32
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 08:13:03 -0400, Wade Gattett
wrote: On 9/14/19 11:13 AM, Wade Gattett wrote: Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan to run. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different models- but both were marked "Slater 15 amp". One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them out. With the new switches installed, the fan is working right. At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? OP here- Umm, interesting bunch of posts. I didn't see any answers, though, to my original questions about using a 15A switch on a 20A circuit and might that usage have contributed to the switch's failure... Simple answer. Switch is sized for the LOAD. If the fan draws less than the rating of the switch it is not a problem. For example, a standard Leviton 15 amp toggle switch is motor rated for 1/2 HP on 120 volts AC and 2HP on 240 volts AC, and 15 amps (1800 watts) of incandescent lighting load. On a 15 amp circuit one 1800 watt load would max out the circuit - or 3 600 watt loads. A 20 amp circuit would allow 4 600 watt lighting loads. I chose 600 watts rather arbitrarily as most lighting dimmer switches are rated at 600watts incandescent. SO - unless the fan is more than 1/2 HP a 15 amp switchis just fine - assuming it was a "motor rated" switch - which MOST are. A 20 amp switch is motor rated for 3/4 HP on 120 volts. |
#33
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 08:53:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote: [snip] That's not really true. Sounds like you had a particular switch that could be positioned in between, in an unstable position. Some switches have a center-off and if they do, it's clearly a detent position and the switch is spec's as having a center off. If they don't then I guess it depends on the design, how easy it is to get it into a position it's not really meant to be in. Why consider "unstable" to mean not there? An OFF position is a necessary consequence of the switch breaking one connection before establishing the other connection. On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would constitute a switch failure. |
#34
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
In article ,
says... Why does taking a shower fill the attic with humidity? Bathroom fan venting into the attic instead of outside? Something is very wrong there. Seems that was the way it was done at one time. I bought a house that was built about 1965. The vent in the bath was just to the attic. Also very little insulation which was that shreaded paper type. What was it called, something like blown celulease. There were about a dozen houses in the neighborhood on a similar floor plan. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#35
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 05:47:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 3:29:31 AM UTC-4, micky wrote: In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:40:48 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... wanted to control an attic fan. I wanted 3 options: Off, On, and Auto. Auto means the fan is controlled by the thermostat in the attic. A SPDT with center off would do this, but none are available. I ended up using one of those double switches (2 SPST single-gang). Available in paddle and decora, and relatively cheap (I think $17). Generally that would be accomplished using a bat-handle type switch supplied by the fan manufacturer or the control manufacturer - but 2 switches in parallel would do the job too Most people (wives) don't want a bat handle switch in their hall. The attic fan where I used to live had a switch for 'on, off, timer'. You turned it on all the time , cut it off, or there was a timer next to the switch. It was on a flat plate about the size of most light switches, but the switch was large and almost flat. You pushed it in toward the wall for off or timer and it stayed in the middle for off. In addition to the thermostatic switch, my roof fan has two switches in one box, mounted sideways. One switch turns it On when it would be off. This was recommended for use after a hot shower which fills the attic with humidity, but I don't take hot showers. Why does taking a shower fill the attic with humidity? Bathroom fan venting into the attic instead of outside? Something is very wrong there. It was pretty common to vent fart fans into the attic until the mechanical codes caught up with the problem. |
#36
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 9/16/19 10:45 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 08:13:03 -0400, Wade Gattett wrote: On 9/14/19 11:13 AM, Wade Gattett wrote: Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan to run. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different models- but both were marked "Slater 15 amp". One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them out. With the new switches installed, the fan is working right. At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? OP here- Umm, interesting bunch of posts. I didn't see any answers, though, to my original questions about using a 15A switch on a 20A circuit and might that usage have contributed to the switch's failure... Simple answer. Switch is sized for the LOAD. If the fan draws less than the rating of the switch it is not a problem. For example, a standard Leviton 15 amp toggle switch is motor rated for 1/2 HP on 120 volts AC and 2HP on 240 volts AC, and 15 amps (1800 watts) of incandescent lighting load. On a 15 amp circuit one 1800 watt load would max out the circuit - or 3 600 watt loads. A 20 amp circuit would allow 4 600 watt lighting loads. I chose 600 watts rather arbitrarily as most lighting dimmer switches are rated at 600watts incandescent. SO - unless the fan is more than 1/2 HP a 15 amp switchis just fine - assuming it was a "motor rated" switch - which MOST are. A 20 amp switch is motor rated for 3/4 HP on 120 volts. Ah, thanks. The switches only control the 85 watt ceiling fan. But also on that circuit, there's two floor lamps (LED bulbs now) and the entertainment corner: two year old big honkin' 7.1 home theater receiver with 5 speakers plus a 12" powered subwoofer, 10 year old plasma TV, cable box. So I'm thinking the switch failure nothing to do with it being rated 15A.... -- If the government gives you a free college education youll have to be fitted with a catalytic converter....true story, look it up. |
#37
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:26:30 -0400, Wade Gattett
wrote: On 9/16/19 10:45 AM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 08:13:03 -0400, Wade Gattett wrote: On 9/14/19 11:13 AM, Wade Gattett wrote: Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan to run. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different models- but both were marked "Slater 15 amp". One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them out. With the new switches installed, the fan is working right. At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? OP here- Umm, interesting bunch of posts. I didn't see any answers, though, to my original questions about using a 15A switch on a 20A circuit and might that usage have contributed to the switch's failure... Simple answer. Switch is sized for the LOAD. If the fan draws less than the rating of the switch it is not a problem. For example, a standard Leviton 15 amp toggle switch is motor rated for 1/2 HP on 120 volts AC and 2HP on 240 volts AC, and 15 amps (1800 watts) of incandescent lighting load. On a 15 amp circuit one 1800 watt load would max out the circuit - or 3 600 watt loads. A 20 amp circuit would allow 4 600 watt lighting loads. I chose 600 watts rather arbitrarily as most lighting dimmer switches are rated at 600watts incandescent. SO - unless the fan is more than 1/2 HP a 15 amp switchis just fine - assuming it was a "motor rated" switch - which MOST are. A 20 amp switch is motor rated for 3/4 HP on 120 volts. Ah, thanks. The switches only control the 85 watt ceiling fan. But also on that circuit, there's two floor lamps (LED bulbs now) and the entertainment corner: two year old big honkin' 7.1 home theater receiver with 5 speakers plus a 12" powered subwoofer, 10 year old plasma TV, cable box. So I'm thinking the switch failure nothing to do with it being rated 15A.... Absolutely |
#38
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 2019-09-16 10:26 a.m., Wade Gattett wrote:
On 9/16/19 10:45 AM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 08:13:03 -0400, Wade Gattett wrote: On 9/14/19 11:13 AM, Wade Gattett wrote: Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan to run. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different models- but both were marked "Slater 15 amp". One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them out. With the new switches installed, the fan is working right. At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? OP here- Umm, interesting bunch of posts. I didn't see any answers, though, to my original questions about using a 15A switch on a 20A circuit and might that usage have contributed to the switch's failure... Â* Simple answer. Switch is sized for the LOAD. If the fan draws less than the rating of the switch it is not a problem. For example, a standard Leviton 15 amp toggle switch is motor rated for 1/2 HP on 120 volts AC and 2HP on 240 volts AC, and 15 amps (1800 watts) of incandescent lighting load. On a 15 amp circuit one 1800 watt load would max out the circuit - or 3 600 watt loads. A 20 amp circuit would allow 4 600 watt lighting loads. I chose 600 watts rather arbitrarily as most lighting dimmer switches are rated at 600watts incandescent. Â* SO - unless the fan is more than 1/2 HP a 15 amp switchis just fine - assuming it was a "motor rated" switch - which MOST are. A 20 amp switch is motor rated for 3/4 HP on 120 volts. Ah, thanks. The switches only control the 85 watt ceiling fan. But also on that circuit, there's two floor lamps (LED bulbs now) and the entertainment corner:Â* two year old big honkin' 7.1 home theater receiver with 5 speakers plus a 12" powered subwoofer, 10 year old plasma TV, cable box. So I'm thinking the switch failure nothing to do with it being rated 15A.... what happened to your nym i used to lol every time i saw it |
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:58:00 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... Why does taking a shower fill the attic with humidity? Bathroom fan venting into the attic instead of outside? Something is very wrong there. Seems that was the way it was done at one time. I bought a house that was built about 1965. The vent in the bath was just to the attic. Also In my case, the tube from the bathroom fan ends right below the ridge vent. FTR I didn't say the attic was filled with humidity. I said it was recommended for that reason. I don't take hot showers and I don't go to the attic afterwards to see if it's humid there. I put the switch in so the next owner of the house would have it. very little insulation which was that shreaded paper type. What was it called, something like blown celulease. There were about a dozen houses in the neighborhood on a similar floor plan. Pink fiberglass. |
#40
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:40:02 -0400, micky
wrote: In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:58:00 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... Why does taking a shower fill the attic with humidity? Bathroom fan venting into the attic instead of outside? Something is very wrong there. Seems that was the way it was done at one time. I bought a house that was built about 1965. The vent in the bath was just to the attic. Also In my case, the tube from the bathroom fan ends right below the ridge vent. FTR I didn't say the attic was filled with humidity. I said it was recommended for that reason. I don't take hot showers and I don't go to the attic afterwards to see if it's humid there. I put the switch in so the next owner of the house would have it. very little insulation which was that shreaded paper type. What was it called, something like blown celulease. There were about a dozen houses in the neighborhood on a similar floor plan. Pink fiberglass. Blown cellulose was the common insulation back in the sixties. Shredded newspaper with borax? (Borate) flame retardent. It is still actually pretty widely used in some places. |
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