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#41
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 9/16/19 3:05 PM, % wrote:
On 2019-09-16 10:26 a.m., Wade Gattett wrote: On 9/16/19 10:45 AM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 08:13:03 -0400, Wade Gattett wrote: On 9/14/19 11:13 AM, Wade Gattett wrote: Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on a 20 amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan to run. I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton 3-ways. When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different models- but both were marked "Slater 15 amp". One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them out. With the new switches installed, the fan is working right. At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of the 15A ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago, maybe that's why the electrical sub used them. We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor for the room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about apples not falling far from the tree? So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not so hot? OP here- Umm, interesting bunch of posts. I didn't see any answers, though, to my original questions about using a 15A switch on a 20A circuit and might that usage have contributed to the switch's failure... Â* Simple answer. Switch is sized for the LOAD. If the fan draws less than the rating of the switch it is not a problem. For example, a standard Leviton 15 amp toggle switch is motor rated for 1/2 HP on 120 volts AC and 2HP on 240 volts AC, and 15 amps (1800 watts) of incandescent lighting load. On a 15 amp circuit one 1800 watt load would max out the circuit - or 3 600 watt loads. A 20 amp circuit would allow 4 600 watt lighting loads. I chose 600 watts rather arbitrarily as most lighting dimmer switches are rated at 600watts incandescent. Â* SO - unless the fan is more than 1/2 HP a 15 amp switchis just fine - assuming it was a "motor rated" switch - which MOST are. A 20 amp switch is motor rated for 3/4 HP on 120 volts. Ah, thanks. The switches only control the 85 watt ceiling fan. But also on that circuit, there's two floor lamps (LED bulbs now) and the entertainment corner:Â* two year old big honkin' 7.1 home theater receiver with 5 speakers plus a 12" powered subwoofer, 10 year old plasma TV, cable box. So I'm thinking the switch failure nothing to do with it being rated 15A.... what happened to your nym i used to lol every time i saw it Not really sure what you're asking... -- Why is it that the people who want more government control over your life are the same ones who want you to be disarmed? |
#42
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 7:40:09 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:58:00 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... Why does taking a shower fill the attic with humidity? Bathroom fan venting into the attic instead of outside? Something is very wrong there. Seems that was the way it was done at one time. I bought a house that was built about 1965. The vent in the bath was just to the attic. Also In my case, the tube from the bathroom fan ends right below the ridge vent. Ridge vent and an attic fan that you say runs all night long when it's hot. More insanity. That attic fan is almost certainly short circuiting air, possibly making things worse than having no fan at all. It pulls air in through the ridge vent and pumps it right back outside, instead of air coming up from the soffits and out the ridge, flowing through the attic, you have air coming in at the ridge vent defeating that and going right back out via the fan. And the thermostat is set too low. |
#43
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 9/16/19 9:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:
[snip] That is unstable, it's not what the switch was designed to do, it's not reliable. Suppose it's a switch for a mixer or similar, you put the switch in the middle position, assuming that's off, and go to work on it? It's not reliable. It is in the center and off NOW. That's all I meant. -- 99 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "A mystic is a person who is puzzled before the obvious but who understands the nonexistent" [Elbert Hubbard] |
#44
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 9/16/19 9:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
[snip] On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would constitute a switch failure. The ones I've seen are not switch failures, but balancing the switch at the point where the spring forces are equal. BTW, I could duplicate the situation here, although it took a few tries to get one of the switches in the middle position that it's not supposed to be in. -- 99 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "A mystic is a person who is puzzled before the obvious but who understands the nonexistent" [Elbert Hubbard] |
#45
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On 9/17/2019 10:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
.... Ridge vent and an attic fan that you say runs all night long when it's hot. More insanity. That attic fan is almost certainly short circuiting air, possibly making things worse than having no fan at all. It pulls air in through the ridge vent and pumps it right back outside, instead of air coming up from the soffits and out the ridge, flowing through the attic, you have air coming in at the ridge vent defeating that and going right back out via the fan. And the thermostat is set too low. +23.456 -- |
#46
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:38:10 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote: On 9/16/19 9:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote: [snip] On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would constitute a switch failure. The ones I've seen are not switch failures, but balancing the switch at the point where the spring forces are equal .. Not possible on a properly functioning "snap action" switch. Perhaps on a "silent" switch - but even then I'd be questioning how long the switch was going to last. Snap action switches generally outlast the silent type significantly.(they don't arc) BTW, I could duplicate the situation here, although it took a few tries to get one of the switches in the middle position that it's not supposed to be in. |
#47
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:00:15 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote: On 9/17/19 2:36 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:38:10 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote: On 9/16/19 9:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote: [snip] On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would constitute a switch failure. The ones I've seen are not switch failures, but balancing the switch at the point where the spring forces are equal . Not possible on a properly functioning "snap action" switch. Perhaps on a "silent" switch - but even then I'd be questioning how long the switch was going to last. Snap action switches generally outlast the silent type significantly.(they don't arc) Absolutes don't exist. There is less of an arc because the time where the contacts are ALMOST touching is less. In the same way, there MUST be a balance point between the springs (switch halfway between positions), just like any other balance point. This balance point can be very small and nearly impossible to get the switch into, but it DOES exist. This is a consequence of the switch being "break before make" as most are. Typically a snap switch will stay made on one side until it reaches that tipping point to flip the other way. Hence the term snap switch. The contacts are not directly connected to the handle of the switch. There is a toggle mechanism in between. I suppose you could have one with a defective toggle but that would be in the trash at my house. |
#48
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:00:15 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote: On 9/17/19 2:36 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:38:10 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote: On 9/16/19 9:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote: [snip] On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would constitute a switch failure. The ones I've seen are not switch failures, but balancing the switch at the point where the spring forces are equal . Not possible on a properly functioning "snap action" switch. Perhaps on a "silent" switch - but even then I'd be questioning how long the switch was going to last. Snap action switches generally outlast the silent type significantly.(they don't arc) Absolutes don't exist. There is less of an arc because the time where the contacts are ALMOST touching is less. In the same way, there MUST be a balance point between the springs (switch halfway between positions), just like any other balance point. This balance point can be very small and nearly impossible to get the switch into, but it DOES exist. This is a consequence of the switch being "break before make" as most are. You buy yourself a box of good "snap action " switches and sit down and try to get one into that ambigouous state. In about 2 years you MIGHT have one worn out to the point you can get it there - but I doubt it. Then you can start on the second one in the box - - - - - Not saying it's absolutely impossible - but it's about as close as damn is to swearing - - - - |
#49
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15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches
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