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Default 15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches

On 9/16/19 3:05 PM, % wrote:
On 2019-09-16 10:26 a.m., Wade Gattett wrote:
On 9/16/19 10:45 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 08:13:03 -0400, Wade Gattett
wrote:

On 9/14/19 11:13 AM, Wade Gattett wrote:
Two 3-way switches controlling a big Hunter Original ceiling fan on
a 20
amp circuit worked fine for 33 years of occasional use. A week or two
back, they quit working properly...both had to be "on" for the fan
to run.

I decided to replace both switches and picked up two 20A Leviton
3-ways.
When I pulled the old switches, they were slightly different
models- but
both were marked "Slater 15 amp".

One of them had what looked like the beginnings of some mild surface
corrosion on its metal support bracket- though I guess it could have
just been a scuzzy-looking mill finish. The other one was bright and
looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't test them and just tossed them
out.

With the new switches installed, the fan is working right.

At the local Home Depot, the 20A switches were twice the cost of
the 15A
ones. I'm thinking if the price difference was the same 33 years ago,
maybe that's why the electrical sub used them.

We ended up having a lot of problems with the general contractor
for the
room addition where the fan was installed. What do they say about
apples
not falling far from the tree?

So- is it OK to use a 15A switch on a 20A circuit? Could that have had
anything to do with the switch failure? Or are Slater switches not
so hot?

OP here- Umm, interesting bunch of posts.

I didn't see any answers, though, to my original questions about
using a
15A switch on a 20A circuit and might that usage have contributed to
the
switch's failure...


Â* Simple answer. Switch is sized for the LOAD. If the fan draws less
than the rating of the switch it is not a problem. For example, a
standard Leviton 15 amp toggle switch is motor rated for 1/2 HP on 120
volts AC and 2HP on 240 volts AC, and 15 amps (1800 watts) of
incandescent lighting load.

On a 15 amp circuit one 1800 watt load would max out the circuit - or
3 600 watt loads. A 20 amp circuit would allow 4 600 watt lighting
loads. I chose 600 watts rather arbitrarily as most lighting dimmer
switches are rated at 600watts incandescent.
Â* SO - unless the fan is more than 1/2 HP a 15 amp switchis just fine -
assuming it was a "motor rated" switch - which MOST are. A 20 amp
switch is motor rated for 3/4 HP on 120 volts.

Ah, thanks.

The switches only control the 85 watt ceiling fan.

But also on that circuit, there's two floor lamps (LED bulbs now) and
the entertainment corner:Â* two year old big honkin' 7.1 home theater
receiver with 5 speakers plus a 12" powered subwoofer, 10 year old
plasma TV, cable box.

So I'm thinking the switch failure nothing to do with it being rated
15A....

what happened to your nym i used to lol every time i saw it


Not really sure what you're asking...

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Default 15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches

On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 7:40:09 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:58:00 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Why does taking a shower fill the attic with humidity? Bathroom fan
venting into the attic instead of outside? Something is very wrong
there.




Seems that was the way it was done at one time. I bought a house that
was built about 1965. The vent in the bath was just to the attic. Also


In my case, the tube from the bathroom fan ends right below the ridge
vent.


Ridge vent and an attic fan that you say runs all night long when it's hot.
More insanity. That attic fan is almost certainly short circuiting
air, possibly making things worse than having no fan at all. It pulls
air in through the ridge vent and pumps it right back outside, instead
of air coming up from the soffits and out the ridge, flowing through
the attic, you have air coming in at the ridge vent defeating that and
going right back out via the fan. And the thermostat is set too low.

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Default 15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches

On 9/16/19 9:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

That is unstable, it's not what the switch was designed to do, it's not
reliable. Suppose it's a switch for a mixer or similar, you put the
switch in the middle position, assuming that's off, and go to work on it?


It's not reliable. It is in the center and off NOW. That's all I meant.

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1 day).

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http://notstupid.us/

"A mystic is a person who is puzzled before the obvious but who
understands the nonexistent" [Elbert Hubbard]
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Default 15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches

On 9/16/19 9:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would
constitute a switch failure.


The ones I've seen are not switch failures, but balancing the switch at
the point where the spring forces are equal.

BTW, I could duplicate the situation here, although it took a few tries
to get one of the switches in the middle position that it's not supposed
to be in.

--
99 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"A mystic is a person who is puzzled before the obvious but who
understands the nonexistent" [Elbert Hubbard]
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Default 15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches

On 9/17/2019 10:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
....

Ridge vent and an attic fan that you say runs all night long when it's hot.
More insanity. That attic fan is almost certainly short circuiting
air, possibly making things worse than having no fan at all. It pulls
air in through the ridge vent and pumps it right back outside, instead
of air coming up from the soffits and out the ridge, flowing through
the attic, you have air coming in at the ridge vent defeating that and
going right back out via the fan. And the thermostat is set too low.


+23.456

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Default 15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:38:10 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 9/16/19 9:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would
constitute a switch failure.


The ones I've seen are not switch failures, but balancing the switch at
the point where the spring forces are equal

.. Not possible on a properly functioning "snap action" switch.
Perhaps on a "silent" switch - but even then I'd be questioning how
long the switch was going to last. Snap action switches generally
outlast the silent type significantly.(they don't arc)

BTW, I could duplicate the situation here, although it took a few tries
to get one of the switches in the middle position that it's not supposed
to be in.

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Default 15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:00:15 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 9/17/19 2:36 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:38:10 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 9/16/19 9:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would
constitute a switch failure.

The ones I've seen are not switch failures, but balancing the switch at
the point where the spring forces are equal

. Not possible on a properly functioning "snap action" switch.
Perhaps on a "silent" switch - but even then I'd be questioning how
long the switch was going to last. Snap action switches generally
outlast the silent type significantly.(they don't arc)


Absolutes don't exist. There is less of an arc because the time where
the contacts are ALMOST touching is less. In the same way, there MUST be
a balance point between the springs (switch halfway between positions),
just like any other balance point. This balance point can be very small
and nearly impossible to get the switch into, but it DOES exist. This is
a consequence of the switch being "break before make" as most are.


Typically a snap switch will stay made on one side until it reaches
that tipping point to flip the other way. Hence the term snap switch.
The contacts are not directly connected to the handle of the switch.
There is a toggle mechanism in between. I suppose you could have one
with a defective toggle but that would be in the trash at my house.
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Default 15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:00:15 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 9/17/19 2:36 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:38:10 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 9/16/19 9:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would
constitute a switch failure.

The ones I've seen are not switch failures, but balancing the switch at
the point where the spring forces are equal

. Not possible on a properly functioning "snap action" switch.
Perhaps on a "silent" switch - but even then I'd be questioning how
long the switch was going to last. Snap action switches generally
outlast the silent type significantly.(they don't arc)


Absolutes don't exist. There is less of an arc because the time where
the contacts are ALMOST touching is less. In the same way, there MUST be
a balance point between the springs (switch halfway between positions),
just like any other balance point. This balance point can be very small
and nearly impossible to get the switch into, but it DOES exist. This is
a consequence of the switch being "break before make" as most are.

You buy yourself a box of good "snap action " switches and sit down
and try to get one into that ambigouous state. In about 2 years you
MIGHT have one worn out to the point you can get it there - but I
doubt it. Then you can start on the second one in the box - - - - -
Not saying it's absolutely impossible - but it's about as close as
damn is to swearing - - - -
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Default 15 vs. 20 Amp 3-Way Wall Switches

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:43:48 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:00:15 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 9/17/19 2:36 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:38:10 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 9/16/19 9:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

On a "snap action" switch remaining in the off position would
constitute a switch failure.

The ones I've seen are not switch failures, but balancing the switch at
the point where the spring forces are equal
. Not possible on a properly functioning "snap action" switch.
Perhaps on a "silent" switch - but even then I'd be questioning how
long the switch was going to last. Snap action switches generally
outlast the silent type significantly.(they don't arc)


Absolutes don't exist. There is less of an arc because the time where
the contacts are ALMOST touching is less. In the same way, there MUST be
a balance point between the springs (switch halfway between positions),
just like any other balance point. This balance point can be very small
and nearly impossible to get the switch into, but it DOES exist. This is
a consequence of the switch being "break before make" as most are.


Typically a snap switch will stay made on one side until it reaches
that tipping point to flip the other way. Hence the term snap switch.
The contacts are not directly connected to the handle of the switch.
There is a toggle mechanism in between. I suppose you could have one
with a defective toggle but that would be in the trash at my house.

Correct - and generally whenthe toggle DOES fail it just stays in one
position or the other.
On the other hand, I can take virtually any silent 3 way toggle
switch and get it to sit in the off-off position virtually any time I
want
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