Clare, Xeno.... and anyone else who has actually mounted tires at home...
this is a question simply to hone my skills, based on your experience.

Did you ever have a batch that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?
o How did you prevent that from happening?
o If it did happen, why did it happen, and, more importantly,
o What TOOL do I need to get to solve this problem without helpers?

As you are well aware, everyone around me burns through tires due to the
artificially high steering-induced positive camber causing camber scrub on
the inside edge of the front wheels due to steep long windy hilly mountain
one-lane asphalt roads:
https://i.postimg.cc/FzGQY92V/mount51.jpg

And, as you are aware, I patchplug my own tires, as needed, since they get
punctured usually about once or twice per set per lifetime of that set.
https://i.postimg.cc/GpYwkPW2/mount52.jpg

I buy whatever tools I need to mount tires at home, such as this HF bead
breaker:
https://i.postimg.cc/wxDM6L39/mount47.jpg
which, I admit, sucks - particularly on the larger stiffer light truck
tires, but, with a few slight modifications (such as the long board you see
in this picture to "extend" the base - it works well enough such that in
just a minute or two all the beads I've ever attempted have been broken:
https://i.postimg.cc/FKfFwJ25/mount48.jpg

In the past, you helped me with the various little-known tricks of the
trade, such as the use of dish detergent and water to lubricate the bead
https://i.postimg.cc/KvZGxWd5/mount49.jpg

And you helped me understand the 'drop center' where there are about a
dozen such tricks that are needed to more easily break and mount the six
beads overall for each tire, before you seal it with the air pressure.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqyZwzdJ/mount50.jpg

One indispensable trick Clare patiently explained is the clear distinction
between the "yellow" dot and "red" dot for steel wheels which have long ago
lost their match-mounting marks:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0p91pkT/mount54.jpg

And, another bit of useful advice that the experts know is which tire
valves are best, where I'm slowly using up my supply of the rubber ones so
that I can go to the bolt on ones in the future exclusively:
https://i.postimg.cc/rmk6g0T9/mount53.jpg

Over time, taking in all this advice, I've successfully mounted & balanced
almost two score tires at home, as witnessed by this pile being just the
recent trash that I need to drop off at Costco at $1 per tire, plus tax.
https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg

Where I must say, they balanced BEAUTIFULLY (better than ever before!):
https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg

And yet - even after about 40 tires under my belt in the past few years, I
_still_ occasionally get a stubber set of tires - like this last batch -
which just wouldn't seat for the final pressurization stage after all six
beads were mounted.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

The problem was, without TWO HELPERS!, I couldn't seal the final bead for
the life of me to pressurize the tire - which was a new problem for me.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

Everything else was easy - but I couldn't get the air to stay inside!
https://i.postimg.cc/wvVrVw06/mount56.jpg

Literally, I had to use 2 additional helpers just to squish the tire
enough that I could get the bead to hold air for that critical first few
seconds (and yes, the schrader valve was removed where I used the same
equipment I've always used on these same sized passenger truck tires).

The only thing I did differently with this set of passenger truck tires was
that they were stored on their treads for about half a year, since I bought
two sets of the same tires, on sale, so I stored them.

Only after I pondered WHY was this one set so difficult to get the bead to
seat did I wonder if they're supposed to be stored 'flat' and if that made
the difference????

Did you ever have a set of tires that just wouldn't easily seal?

Two questions arise if you have experience with this specific problem.
1. What additional tools do I need to purchase?
2. What trick can I do to make it easier to seal the beads?

On 9/4/19 6:05 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Clare, Xeno.... and anyone else who has actually mounted tires at home...
this is a question simply to hone my skills, based on your experience.

Did you ever have a batch that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?
o How did you prevent that from happening?
o If it did happen, why did it happen, and, more importantly,
o What TOOL do I need to get to solve this problem without helpers?

As you are well aware, everyone around me burns through tires due to the
artificially high steering-induced positive camber causing camber scrub on
the inside edge of the front wheels due to steep long windy hilly mountain
one-lane asphalt roads:
https://i.postimg.cc/FzGQY92V/mount51.jpg

And, as you are aware, I patchplug my own tires, as needed, since they get
punctured usually about once or twice per set per lifetime of that set.
https://i.postimg.cc/GpYwkPW2/mount52.jpg

I buy whatever tools I need to mount tires at home, such as this HF bead
breaker:
https://i.postimg.cc/wxDM6L39/mount47.jpg
which, I admit, sucks - particularly on the larger stiffer light truck
tires, but, with a few slight modifications (such as the long board you see
in this picture to "extend" the base - it works well enough such that in
just a minute or two all the beads I've ever attempted have been broken:
https://i.postimg.cc/FKfFwJ25/mount48.jpg

In the past, you helped me with the various little-known tricks of the
trade, such as the use of dish detergent and water to lubricate the bead
https://i.postimg.cc/KvZGxWd5/mount49.jpg

And you helped me understand the 'drop center' where there are about a
dozen such tricks that are needed to more easily break and mount the six
beads overall for each tire, before you seal it with the air pressure.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqyZwzdJ/mount50.jpg

One indispensable trick Clare patiently explained is the clear distinction
between the "yellow" dot and "red" dot for steel wheels which have long ago
lost their match-mounting marks:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0p91pkT/mount54.jpg

And, another bit of useful advice that the experts know is which tire
valves are best, where I'm slowly using up my supply of the rubber ones so
that I can go to the bolt on ones in the future exclusively:
https://i.postimg.cc/rmk6g0T9/mount53.jpg

Over time, taking in all this advice, I've successfully mounted & balanced
almost two score tires at home, as witnessed by this pile being just the
recent trash that I need to drop off at Costco at $1 per tire, plus tax.
https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg

Where I must say, they balanced BEAUTIFULLY (better than ever before!):
https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg

And yet - even after about 40 tires under my belt in the past few years, I
_still_ occasionally get a stubber set of tires - like this last batch -
which just wouldn't seat for the final pressurization stage after all six
beads were mounted.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

The problem was, without TWO HELPERS!, I couldn't seal the final bead for
the life of me to pressurize the tire - which was a new problem for me.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

Everything else was easy - but I couldn't get the air to stay inside!
https://i.postimg.cc/wvVrVw06/mount56.jpg

Literally, I had to use 2 additional helpers just to squish the tire
enough that I could get the bead to hold air for that critical first few
seconds (and yes, the schrader valve was removed where I used the same
equipment I've always used on these same sized passenger truck tires).

The only thing I did differently with this set of passenger truck tires was
that they were stored on their treads for about half a year, since I bought
two sets of the same tires, on sale, so I stored them.

Only after I pondered WHY was this one set so difficult to get the bead to
seat did I wonder if they're supposed to be stored 'flat' and if that made
the difference????

Did you ever have a set of tires that just wouldn't easily seal?

Two questions arise if you have experience with this specific problem.
1. What additional tools do I need to purchase?
2. What trick can I do to make it easier to seal the beads?

An old farmer trick is to use a come along. (coffin hoist).
Wrap the cable around
the tire and cinch it up. That should push the beads toward the rim.
They do make
come alongs with straps instead of cable. I've thought about using a
ratchet strap but
never actually tried it.

On Wed, 4 Sep 2019 23:05:40 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

Clare, Xeno.... and anyone else who has actually mounted tires at home...
this is a question simply to hone my skills, based on your experience.

Did you ever have a batch that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?
o How did you prevent that from happening?
o If it did happen, why did it happen, and, more importantly,
o What TOOL do I need to get to solve this problem without helpers?

As you are well aware, everyone around me burns through tires due to the
artificially high steering-induced positive camber causing camber scrub on
the inside edge of the front wheels due to steep long windy hilly mountain
one-lane asphalt roads:
https://i.postimg.cc/FzGQY92V/mount51.jpg

And, as you are aware, I patchplug my own tires, as needed, since they get
punctured usually about once or twice per set per lifetime of that set.
https://i.postimg.cc/GpYwkPW2/mount52.jpg

I buy whatever tools I need to mount tires at home, such as this HF bead
breaker:
https://i.postimg.cc/wxDM6L39/mount47.jpg
which, I admit, sucks - particularly on the larger stiffer light truck
tires, but, with a few slight modifications (such as the long board you see
in this picture to "extend" the base - it works well enough such that in
just a minute or two all the beads I've ever attempted have been broken:
https://i.postimg.cc/FKfFwJ25/mount48.jpg

In the past, you helped me with the various little-known tricks of the
trade, such as the use of dish detergent and water to lubricate the bead
https://i.postimg.cc/KvZGxWd5/mount49.jpg

And you helped me understand the 'drop center' where there are about a
dozen such tricks that are needed to more easily break and mount the six
beads overall for each tire, before you seal it with the air pressure.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqyZwzdJ/mount50.jpg

One indispensable trick Clare patiently explained is the clear distinction
between the "yellow" dot and "red" dot for steel wheels which have long ago
lost their match-mounting marks:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0p91pkT/mount54.jpg

And, another bit of useful advice that the experts know is which tire
valves are best, where I'm slowly using up my supply of the rubber ones so
that I can go to the bolt on ones in the future exclusively:
https://i.postimg.cc/rmk6g0T9/mount53.jpg

Over time, taking in all this advice, I've successfully mounted & balanced
almost two score tires at home, as witnessed by this pile being just the
recent trash that I need to drop off at Costco at $1 per tire, plus tax.
https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg

Where I must say, they balanced BEAUTIFULLY (better than ever before!):
https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg

And yet - even after about 40 tires under my belt in the past few years, I
_still_ occasionally get a stubber set of tires - like this last batch -
which just wouldn't seat for the final pressurization stage after all six
beads were mounted.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

The problem was, without TWO HELPERS!, I couldn't seal the final bead for
the life of me to pressurize the tire - which was a new problem for me.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

Everything else was easy - but I couldn't get the air to stay inside!
https://i.postimg.cc/wvVrVw06/mount56.jpg

Literally, I had to use 2 additional helpers just to squish the tire
enough that I could get the bead to hold air for that critical first few
seconds (and yes, the schrader valve was removed where I used the same
equipment I've always used on these same sized passenger truck tires).

The only thing I did differently with this set of passenger truck tires was
that they were stored on their treads for about half a year, since I bought
two sets of the same tires, on sale, so I stored them.

Only after I pondered WHY was this one set so difficult to get the bead to
seat did I wonder if they're supposed to be stored 'flat' and if that made
the difference????

Did you ever have a set of tires that just wouldn't easily seal?

Two questions arise if you have experience with this specific problem.
1. What additional tools do I need to purchase?
2. What trick can I do to make it easier to seal the beads?


Storing flat will GUARANTEE you will have a problem - - -
You need a "blaster" on your tire machine to inflate the tire through
the bead gap.Or a hand held "BAZOOKA"

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB95Eym98vs

Or build your own

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqKc1h7FFc

On Wed, 4 Sep 2019 18:37:05 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 9/4/19 6:05 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Clare, Xeno.... and anyone else who has actually mounted tires at home...
this is a question simply to hone my skills, based on your experience.

Did you ever have a batch that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?
o How did you prevent that from happening?
o If it did happen, why did it happen, and, more importantly,
o What TOOL do I need to get to solve this problem without helpers?

As you are well aware, everyone around me burns through tires due to the
artificially high steering-induced positive camber causing camber scrub on
the inside edge of the front wheels due to steep long windy hilly mountain
one-lane asphalt roads:
https://i.postimg.cc/FzGQY92V/mount51.jpg

And, as you are aware, I patchplug my own tires, as needed, since they get
punctured usually about once or twice per set per lifetime of that set.
https://i.postimg.cc/GpYwkPW2/mount52.jpg

I buy whatever tools I need to mount tires at home, such as this HF bead
breaker:
https://i.postimg.cc/wxDM6L39/mount47.jpg
which, I admit, sucks - particularly on the larger stiffer light truck
tires, but, with a few slight modifications (such as the long board you see
in this picture to "extend" the base - it works well enough such that in
just a minute or two all the beads I've ever attempted have been broken:
https://i.postimg.cc/FKfFwJ25/mount48.jpg

In the past, you helped me with the various little-known tricks of the
trade, such as the use of dish detergent and water to lubricate the bead
https://i.postimg.cc/KvZGxWd5/mount49.jpg

And you helped me understand the 'drop center' where there are about a
dozen such tricks that are needed to more easily break and mount the six
beads overall for each tire, before you seal it with the air pressure.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqyZwzdJ/mount50.jpg

One indispensable trick Clare patiently explained is the clear distinction
between the "yellow" dot and "red" dot for steel wheels which have long ago
lost their match-mounting marks:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0p91pkT/mount54.jpg

And, another bit of useful advice that the experts know is which tire
valves are best, where I'm slowly using up my supply of the rubber ones so
that I can go to the bolt on ones in the future exclusively:
https://i.postimg.cc/rmk6g0T9/mount53.jpg

Over time, taking in all this advice, I've successfully mounted & balanced
almost two score tires at home, as witnessed by this pile being just the
recent trash that I need to drop off at Costco at $1 per tire, plus tax.
https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg

Where I must say, they balanced BEAUTIFULLY (better than ever before!):
https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg

And yet - even after about 40 tires under my belt in the past few years, I
_still_ occasionally get a stubber set of tires - like this last batch -
which just wouldn't seat for the final pressurization stage after all six
beads were mounted.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

The problem was, without TWO HELPERS!, I couldn't seal the final bead for
the life of me to pressurize the tire - which was a new problem for me.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

Everything else was easy - but I couldn't get the air to stay inside!
https://i.postimg.cc/wvVrVw06/mount56.jpg

Literally, I had to use 2 additional helpers just to squish the tire
enough that I could get the bead to hold air for that critical first few
seconds (and yes, the schrader valve was removed where I used the same
equipment I've always used on these same sized passenger truck tires).

The only thing I did differently with this set of passenger truck tires was
that they were stored on their treads for about half a year, since I bought
two sets of the same tires, on sale, so I stored them.

Only after I pondered WHY was this one set so difficult to get the bead to
seat did I wonder if they're supposed to be stored 'flat' and if that made
the difference????

Did you ever have a set of tires that just wouldn't easily seal?

Two questions arise if you have experience with this specific problem.
1. What additional tools do I need to purchase?
2. What trick can I do to make it easier to seal the beads?

An old farmer trick is to use a come along. (coffin hoist).
Wrap the cable around
the tire and cinch it up. That should push the beads toward the rim.
They do make
come alongs with straps instead of cable. I've thought about using a
ratchet strap but
never actually tried it.


Worked good on old bias tires - not so good on belted and radial tires

On 9/4/2019 6:37 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 9/4/19 6:05 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Clare, Xeno.... and anyone else who has actually mounted tires at
home...
this is a question simply to hone my skills, based on your experience.

Did you ever have a batch that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?
o How did you prevent that from happening?
o If it did happen, why did it happen, and, more importantly,
o What TOOL do I need to get to solve this problem without helpers?

As you are well aware, everyone around me burns through tires due to the
artificially high steering-induced positive camber causing camber
scrub on
the inside edge of the front wheels due to steep long windy hilly
mountain
one-lane asphalt roads:
https://i.postimg.cc/FzGQY92V/mount51.jpg

And, as you are aware, I patchplug my own tires, as needed, since
they get
punctured usually about once or twice per set per lifetime of that set.
https://i.postimg.cc/GpYwkPW2/mount52.jpg

I buy whatever tools I need to mount tires at home, such as this HF bead
breaker:
https://i.postimg.cc/wxDM6L39/mount47.jpg
which, I admit, sucks - particularly on the larger stiffer light truck
tires, but, with a few slight modifications (such as the long board
you see
in this picture to "extend" the base - it works well enough such that in
just a minute or two all the beads I've ever attempted have been broken:
https://i.postimg.cc/FKfFwJ25/mount48.jpg

In the past, you helped me with the various little-known tricks of the
trade, such as the use of dish detergent and water to lubricate the bead
https://i.postimg.cc/KvZGxWd5/mount49.jpg

And you helped me understand the 'drop center' where there are about a
dozen such tricks that are needed to more easily break and mount the six
beads overall for each tire, before you seal it with the air pressure.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqyZwzdJ/mount50.jpg

One indispensable trick Clare patiently explained is the clear
distinction
between the "yellow" dot and "red" dot for steel wheels which have
long ago
lost their match-mounting marks:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0p91pkT/mount54.jpg

And, another bit of useful advice that the experts know is which tire
valves are best, where I'm slowly using up my supply of the rubber
ones so
that I can go to the bolt on ones in the future exclusively:
https://i.postimg.cc/rmk6g0T9/mount53.jpg

Over time, taking in all this advice, I've successfully mounted &
balanced
almost two score tires at home, as witnessed by this pile being just the
recent trash that I need to drop off at Costco at $1 per tire, plus tax.
https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg

Where I must say, they balanced BEAUTIFULLY (better than ever before!):
https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg

And yet - even after about 40 tires under my belt in the past few
years, I
_still_ occasionally get a stubber set of tires - like this last batch -
which just wouldn't seat for the final pressurization stage after all
six
beads were mounted.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

The problem was, without TWO HELPERS!, I couldn't seal the final bead
for
the life of me to pressurize the tire - which was a new problem for me.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

Everything else was easy - but I couldn't get the air to stay inside!
https://i.postimg.cc/wvVrVw06/mount56.jpg

Literally, I had to use 2 additional helpers just to squish the tire
enough that I could get the bead to hold air for that critical first few
seconds (and yes, the schrader valve was removed where I used the same
equipment I've always used on these same sized passenger truck tires).

The only thing I did differently with this set of passenger truck
tires was
that they were stored on their treads for about half a year, since I
bought
two sets of the same tires, on sale, so I stored them.

Only after I pondered WHY was this one set so difficult to get the
bead to
seat did I wonder if they're supposed to be stored 'flat' and if that
made
the difference????

Did you ever have a set of tires that just wouldn't easily seal?

Two questions arise if you have experience with this specific problem.
1. What additional tools do I need to purchase?
2. What trick can I do to make it easier to seal the beads?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* An old farmer trick is to use a come along.Â* (coffin hoist).
Wrap the cable around
the tire and cinch it up.Â* That should push the beads toward the rim.
Â*They do make
come alongs with straps instead of cable.Â*Â*Â*Â* I've thought about using
a ratchet strap but
never actually tried it.

Â* Ratchet straps work . Sometimes ... and so does a piece of rope
wrapped around the tire and tightened by twisting a stick in a loop to
tighten it . What works even better is a bicycle tube . Get one the
right size for your wheels . Lay it in the gap between the rim and the
new tire , pressurize it to seal the gap . Inflate the new tire , as it
seats the bead the tube will pop out of the gap . A properly sized
length of garden hose works sometimes too . A couple of wraps of duct
tape to connect the ends helps . In a pinch I've sprayed hair spray or
butane from a refill cartridge in the tire and tossed a match at it .
Works but can be hard on tires and rims ...

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On 5/9/19 9:05 am, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Clare, Xeno.... and anyone else who has actually mounted tires at home...
this is a question simply to hone my skills, based on your experience.

Did you ever have a batch that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?
o How did you prevent that from happening?
o If it did happen, why did it happen, and, more importantly,
o What TOOL do I need to get to solve this problem without helpers?

As you are well aware, everyone around me burns through tires due to the
artificially high steering-induced positive camber causing camber scrub on
the inside edge of the front wheels due to steep long windy hilly mountain
one-lane asphalt roads:
https://i.postimg.cc/FzGQY92V/mount51.jpg

And, as you are aware, I patchplug my own tires, as needed, since they get
punctured usually about once or twice per set per lifetime of that set.
https://i.postimg.cc/GpYwkPW2/mount52.jpg

I buy whatever tools I need to mount tires at home, such as this HF bead
breaker:
https://i.postimg.cc/wxDM6L39/mount47.jpg
which, I admit, sucks - particularly on the larger stiffer light truck
tires, but, with a few slight modifications (such as the long board you see
in this picture to "extend" the base - it works well enough such that in
just a minute or two all the beads I've ever attempted have been broken:
https://i.postimg.cc/FKfFwJ25/mount48.jpg

In the past, you helped me with the various little-known tricks of the
trade, such as the use of dish detergent and water to lubricate the bead
https://i.postimg.cc/KvZGxWd5/mount49.jpg

And you helped me understand the 'drop center' where there are about a
dozen such tricks that are needed to more easily break and mount the six
beads overall for each tire, before you seal it with the air pressure.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqyZwzdJ/mount50.jpg

One indispensable trick Clare patiently explained is the clear distinction
between the "yellow" dot and "red" dot for steel wheels which have long ago
lost their match-mounting marks:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0p91pkT/mount54.jpg

And, another bit of useful advice that the experts know is which tire
valves are best, where I'm slowly using up my supply of the rubber ones so
that I can go to the bolt on ones in the future exclusively:
https://i.postimg.cc/rmk6g0T9/mount53.jpg

Over time, taking in all this advice, I've successfully mounted & balanced
almost two score tires at home, as witnessed by this pile being just the
recent trash that I need to drop off at Costco at $1 per tire, plus tax.
https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg

Where I must say, they balanced BEAUTIFULLY (better than ever before!):
https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg

And yet - even after about 40 tires under my belt in the past few years, I
_still_ occasionally get a stubber set of tires - like this last batch -
which just wouldn't seat for the final pressurization stage after all six
beads were mounted.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

The problem was, without TWO HELPERS!, I couldn't seal the final bead for
the life of me to pressurize the tire - which was a new problem for me.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

Everything else was easy - but I couldn't get the air to stay inside!
https://i.postimg.cc/wvVrVw06/mount56.jpg

Literally, I had to use 2 additional helpers just to squish the tire
enough that I could get the bead to hold air for that critical first few
seconds (and yes, the schrader valve was removed where I used the same
equipment I've always used on these same sized passenger truck tires).

The only thing I did differently with this set of passenger truck tires was
that they were stored on their treads for about half a year, since I bought
two sets of the same tires, on sale, so I stored them.

Only after I pondered WHY was this one set so difficult to get the bead to
seat did I wonder if they're supposed to be stored 'flat' and if that made
the difference????

Did you ever have a set of tires that just wouldn't easily seal?

Two questions arise if you have experience with this specific problem.
1. What additional tools do I need to purchase?
2. What trick can I do to make it easier to seal the beads?

Yes to the first.
Tyre strap for the second.
One strap only around the middle of the tyre.

In another post, ratchet straps are mentioned. They might work. I've
always used the proper tyre strap so never tried alternatives but
whatever works.

Had a friend recently have the issue. The first mistake he made was
retaining the valve core - bad move since you need a decent blast of
air. Second was he was using one of those cheap tyre inflaters on his
compressor that limits flow drastically. I told him to take it off and
blast it with the air hose plugged directly onto the valve. He was also
using 2 (two) tyre straps, each being over a bead. Bad move as that
forces the sidewalls inwards *away* from the beads. Just one around the
centre of the tread works perfectly and puts an outward pressure on the
bead helping to minimise air loss there.

Bottom line; maximise air flow, minimise air loss.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 05/09/2019 00:05, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Clare, Xeno.... and anyone else who has actually mounted tires at home...
this is a question simply to hone my skills, based on your experience.

Did you ever have a batch that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?
o How did you prevent that from happening?
o If it did happen, why did it happen, and, more importantly,
o What TOOL do I need to get to solve this problem without helpers?

As you are well aware, everyone around me burns through tires due to the
artificially high steering-induced positive camber causing camber scrub on
the inside edge of the front wheels due to steep long windy hilly mountain
one-lane asphalt roads:
https://i.postimg.cc/FzGQY92V/mount51.jpg

And, as you are aware, I patchplug my own tires, as needed, since they get
punctured usually about once or twice per set per lifetime of that set.
https://i.postimg.cc/GpYwkPW2/mount52.jpg

I buy whatever tools I need to mount tires at home, such as this HF bead
breaker:
https://i.postimg.cc/wxDM6L39/mount47.jpg
which, I admit, sucks - particularly on the larger stiffer light truck
tires, but, with a few slight modifications (such as the long board you see
in this picture to "extend" the base - it works well enough such that in
just a minute or two all the beads I've ever attempted have been broken:
https://i.postimg.cc/FKfFwJ25/mount48.jpg

In the past, you helped me with the various little-known tricks of the
trade, such as the use of dish detergent and water to lubricate the bead
https://i.postimg.cc/KvZGxWd5/mount49.jpg

And you helped me understand the 'drop center' where there are about a
dozen such tricks that are needed to more easily break and mount the six
beads overall for each tire, before you seal it with the air pressure.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqyZwzdJ/mount50.jpg

One indispensable trick Clare patiently explained is the clear distinction
between the "yellow" dot and "red" dot for steel wheels which have long ago
lost their match-mounting marks:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0p91pkT/mount54.jpg

And, another bit of useful advice that the experts know is which tire
valves are best, where I'm slowly using up my supply of the rubber ones so
that I can go to the bolt on ones in the future exclusively:
https://i.postimg.cc/rmk6g0T9/mount53.jpg

Over time, taking in all this advice, I've successfully mounted & balanced
almost two score tires at home, as witnessed by this pile being just the
recent trash that I need to drop off at Costco at $1 per tire, plus tax.
https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg

Where I must say, they balanced BEAUTIFULLY (better than ever before!):
https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg

And yet - even after about 40 tires under my belt in the past few years, I
_still_ occasionally get a stubber set of tires - like this last batch -
which just wouldn't seat for the final pressurization stage after all six
beads were mounted.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

The problem was, without TWO HELPERS!, I couldn't seal the final bead for
the life of me to pressurize the tire - which was a new problem for me.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

Everything else was easy - but I couldn't get the air to stay inside!
https://i.postimg.cc/wvVrVw06/mount56.jpg

Literally, I had to use 2 additional helpers just to squish the tire
enough that I could get the bead to hold air for that critical first few
seconds (and yes, the schrader valve was removed where I used the same
equipment I've always used on these same sized passenger truck tires).

The only thing I did differently with this set of passenger truck tires was
that they were stored on their treads for about half a year, since I bought
two sets of the same tires, on sale, so I stored them.

Only after I pondered WHY was this one set so difficult to get the bead to
seat did I wonder if they're supposed to be stored 'flat' and if that made
the difference????

Did you ever have a set of tires that just wouldn't easily seal?

Two questions arise if you have experience with this specific problem.
1. What additional tools do I need to purchase?
2. What trick can I do to make it easier to seal the beads?


Wimps.

Do it the Icelandic way. Spray some lighter fuel inside the tyre
and apply a flame.

On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 13:41:06 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Do it the Icelandic way. Spray some lighter fuel inside the tyre
and apply a flame.

I've done that redneck trick and it certainly does work.
https://youtu.be/63RAFk1Ae84
Where that video provides a decent explanation at time point 85
https://youtu.be/63RAFk1Ae84?t=85

What worked best, for me, was MAF cleaner, although carb cleaner also
worked but the problem is lighting it without getting the lighter itself
caught in the bead since it pops instantly.

In fact, when I had a scare that my fingers were a bit too close, that's
when I decided, about a half dozen years ago, to buy the tools, which only
cost about the price of mounting a dozen tires, which goes pretty fast out
here in the states, especially in the mountains where we wear out the
outside edge of the front tires before anything else
https://i.postimg.cc/63Kc80x9/mount29.jpg
which Xeno & Clare have told me is most likely due to camber scrub
https://i.postimg.cc/zvvyL2tq/mount24.jpg

The crappy Harbor Freight tools easily paid for themselves long ago
1. HF Bead Breaker (about fifty bucks or so)
2. HF Tire Mounter (about fifty bucks or so)
3. HF Wheel Balancer (about seventy five bucks or so)

After about two score tires in the past half dozen years, I've only needed
a helper in the final air-filling stage - where - in this case - I needed
TWO helpers.

So I will see if I can find a good price for a tire strap.
Or, maybe figure out better technique, such as what this guy does at time
point 146 by putting the tire on top of another tire to seat the bottom
bead and then stepping on the top bead while filling with air:
https://youtu.be/-QgP6CWhsyI?t=146
Instead of trying to seat both beads while the wheel is still on the tire
changer - which is what I've been doing.

On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 12:36:27 +1000, Xeno wrote:

Yes to the first.
Tyre strap for the second.
One strap only around the middle of the tyre.

Hi Xeno,

Thanks for the vote on the tire straps, where you were instrumental in
helping me hone WHY almost all the tires on this mountain wear out on the
outside edge of the front tires before anything else!
https://i.postimg.cc/Hx2Fw0dK/mount03.jpg

On the topic of tire straps, my OP shows that I did try a 'rope' but it
broke after about only a dozen or so turns, where it wasn't doing anything
effective anyway.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

In another post, ratchet straps are mentioned. They might work. I've
always used the proper tyre strap so never tried alternatives but
whatever works.

Also on the topic of ratchet straps, Clare posted a few videos of American
ingenuity at work with homemade bazooka air blasters, where both of those
videos used a strap but to no avail.

This first video seems to use two ratchet straps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB95Eym98vs
And he used a block of wood UNDER the tire to hold the bottom bead.

While this video uses a steel strap which might be a tire strap?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqKc1h7FFc

Is _that_ steel strap a "tire strap"?


Had a friend recently have the issue. The first mistake he made was
retaining the valve core - bad move since you need a decent blast of
air.

Understood. About 40 tires ago (about a half dozen years ago or so), when I
first started mounting and balancing tires at home, I left the Shrader
valve in place - but now I habitually unscrew it before filling with a
simple custom air gun that I made by replacing the tip with the proper
fitting:
https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg

Second was he was using one of those cheap tyre inflaters on his
compressor that limits flow drastically.

Hmm.... I don't know what that is, but my compressor is a 220VAC 20-gallon
wheeled compressor with enough air to fill the tire if only I could seal it
without needing a helper (or two in this case, which was the first time in
two score tires that I needed a SECOND helper).

I told him to take it off and
blast it with the air hose plugged directly onto the valve.

Yup. That's EXACTLY what I do with this simple fitting.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

Sometimes I rubber band the trigger so the air is always flowing.

He was also
using 2 (two) tyre straps, each being over a bead. Bad move as that
forces the sidewalls inwards *away* from the beads. Just one around the
centre of the tread works perfectly and puts an outward pressure on the
bead helping to minimise air loss there.

I need to buy these tire straps... or make the bazooka Clare mentioned, but
while I have the same welding equipment everyone has, I really don't have
the skills necessary to fabricate the bazooka from scratch.

Bottom line; maximise air flow, minimise air loss.

Up until now, the one helper sufficed to push in the bead with me as I
filled the tire with air - but this set took two helpers.

I just remembered in the last set, it was a bit difficult too, but I had
attributed it to the fact I left the tape closing the bead on during
storage for a few months.
https://i.postimg.cc/DwnjgJY3/mount08.jpg

It might simply be this set of tires is a bit "loose" which made sealing
the bead just hard enough to require a second helper.

Without either a tire strap or a helper, I don't think seating these
P227/75R15 light truck (SUV) tires can be easily done with just me and the
air compressor so I am going to NEED a tire strap (or that bazooka!).

On Wed, 04 Sep 2019 21:54:27 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

Storing flat will GUARANTEE you will have a problem - - -

Hi Clare,

Thanks for helping me hone my tire mounting and balancing skills over the
years.

As you know, we have high wear on the outside edge of the front tires:
https://i.postimg.cc/Hx2Fw0dK/mount03.jpg

So I bought multiple sets of tires, since everyone has the same problem:
https://i.postimg.cc/1zSWvgCZ/mount04.jpg

I used the same tools and techniques for the first set as the second set:
https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg

That first set I mounted a few months ago by the uniformity based maximum
radial force variation "red dot" high point - which takes priority if you
still have the "dimple" on the steel rim indicating the low point of the
rim - but I didn't have that dimple so I was matching to the wrong dot.
https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg

With this set of tires, given the low point match mounting marks on the
steel wheel are no longer visible, I followed your advice and instead
matched this set to the weight based light spot, by placing the "yellow
dot" next to the tire valve:
https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg

The only problem was I needed two helpers to push the tire inward to seal
for the final blast of air - where I never needed two people before - I
only needed one additional person in the past - and where even the rope
trick didn't work as the rope broke before the tire even bulged a bit
inward.
https://i.postimg.cc/wvVrVw06/mount56.jpg

You need a "blaster" on your tire machine to inflate the tire through
the bead gap.Or a hand held "BAZOOKA"

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB95Eym98vs

Thank you for that video to hone my skills where I love that the guy is
honest in the number of tries and methods that he tried, where, for
example, at time point 72 he mentions that he used a block of wood to seal
the bottom bead.
https://youtu.be/CB95Eym98vs?t=72

Interestingly, he doesn't lave the wheel/tire on the tire-changing jig like
I do, where, instead of using helpers like I do, he puts the wheel/tire on
the ground instead - and then he blasts the bead with his "bazooka"!

Without a helper (which is what I use), he seemed to be unsuccessful for
about a dozen tries - but then I noticed he added two ratchet straps at
time point 114 but was still unsuccessful (as was I - even with a helper):
https://youtu.be/CB95Eym98vs?t=114

At time point 125, he tries a vertical setup, but gives up quickly
https://youtu.be/CB95Eym98vs?t=125

He's finally successful at time point 135 at sealing the bead for air
https://youtu.be/CB95Eym98vs?t=135
where, admittedly, his truck tires are bigger than the comparatively puny
P225/75R15 102S truck tires I'm working on.

One trick that is critical to note that he did but didn't note is the "lip"
he welded onto his bazooka which is visible at time point 88 in the video
https://youtu.be/CB95Eym98vs?t=88

That lip is critical to keep the bead from "pinching" his bazooka since
ANYTHING in the gap will be crushed instantly (the bazooka included) when
the tire pops (I know this from experience using the flame & MAF cleaner).

Or build your own

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqKc1h7FFc

That Union Local 57 video was hilarious!
o It showed good old American ingenuity at its finest!

They also used a strap, but theirs was steel as shown at time 18
https://youtu.be/pcqKc1h7FFc?t=18

I love that this video, like the previous one, showed even the inevitable
minor mistakes, such as forgetting to fill with water before welding at
time point 151
https://youtu.be/pcqKc1h7FFc?t=151

and the unfortunate pressure leak at time point 270
https://youtu.be/pcqKc1h7FFc?t=270

But in the end, they were successful at time point 340
https://youtu.be/pcqKc1h7FFc?t=340

And, true to American ingenuity, they IMPROVED on the tool by adding a
handle, gauge, and taller valving at time point 376
https://youtu.be/pcqKc1h7FFc?t=376

Before testing it as a weapons launcher & final painting for good looks!

The only thing they were missing was the tiny lip so that they could place
the bazooka against the rim instead of against the tire when blasting.

On Wed, 4 Sep 2019 20:58:23 -0500, Terry Coombs wrote:

Â* Ratchet straps work . Sometimes ... and so does a piece of rope
wrapped around the tire and tightened by twisting a stick in a loop to
tighten it .

Hi Terry Coombs,

I am not sure the rope works - at least not on these SUV truck tires.

Or, the rope has to be mighty strong to work on these light truck (SUV)
tires, since I busted the climbing rope using a six-foot pipe for leverage
as shown here where the picture was taken after a dozen or so turns:
https://i.postimg.cc/wvVrVw06/mount56.jpg

What works even better is a bicycle tube . Get one the
right size for your wheels . Lay it in the gap between the rim and the
new tire , pressurize it to seal the gap . Inflate the new tire , as it
seats the bead the tube will pop out of the gap .

Now THAT is an interesting idea!

I love that the idea DIRECTLY addresses the problem, which is that the air
is leaking out faster than it's going in, so it blocks that outgoing air.

A properly sized length of garden hose works sometimes too .

With various sized tires from 15 inch to 17 inch rims, I can see the sizing
being an issue - but I have lots of spare garden hoses lying around to
test.

A couple of wraps of duct
tape to connect the ends helps

I was wondering how to connect them without having brass in the middle!

In a pinch I've sprayed hair spray or
butane from a refill cartridge in the tire and tossed a match at it .
Works but can be hard on tires and rims ...

As an experiment, I've tried it - and it does work, where I used carb
cleaner and MAF cleaner but it's not really the way I want to do things.

I'd rather just have either the right technique or the right too.
I like the ideas of the gardenhose/bicycle tube though as it might work.

On Thursday, September 5, 2019 at 10:57:05 AM UTC-4, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 13:41:06 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Do it the Icelandic way. Spray some lighter fuel inside the tyre
and apply a flame.

I've done that redneck trick and it certainly does work.
https://youtu.be/63RAFk1Ae84
Where that video provides a decent explanation at time point 85
https://youtu.be/63RAFk1Ae84?t=85

What worked best, for me, was MAF cleaner, although carb cleaner also
worked but the problem is lighting it without getting the lighter itself
caught in the bead since it pops instantly.

In fact, when I had a scare that my fingers were a bit too close, that's
when I decided, about a half dozen years ago, to buy the tools, which only
cost about the price of mounting a dozen tires, which goes pretty fast out
here in the states, especially in the mountains where we wear out the
outside edge of the front tires before anything else
https://i.postimg.cc/63Kc80x9/mount29.jpg
which Xeno & Clare have told me is most likely due to camber scrub
https://i.postimg.cc/zvvyL2tq/mount24.jpg

The crappy Harbor Freight tools easily paid for themselves long ago
1. HF Bead Breaker (about fifty bucks or so)
2. HF Tire Mounter (about fifty bucks or so)
3. HF Wheel Balancer (about seventy five bucks or so)

After about two score tires in the past half dozen years, I've only needed
a helper in the final air-filling stage - where - in this case - I needed
TWO helpers.

So I will see if I can find a good price for a tire strap.
Or, maybe figure out better technique, such as what this guy does at time
point 146 by putting the tire on top of another tire to seat the bottom
bead and then stepping on the top bead while filling with air:
https://youtu.be/-QgP6CWhsyI?t=146
Instead of trying to seat both beads while the wheel is still on the tire
changer - which is what I've been doing.


Silly me, I just pay $15 a tire to get them mounted and dynamically balanced.
No fuss, no muss and no need for spraying MAF into a tire to create an
explosion to try to seal the bead. Do they do that at the tire shop?

On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 14:57:02 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 12:36:27 +1000, Xeno wrote:

Yes to the first.
Tyre strap for the second.
One strap only around the middle of the tyre.

Hi Xeno,

Thanks for the vote on the tire straps, where you were instrumental in
helping me hone WHY almost all the tires on this mountain wear out on the
outside edge of the front tires before anything else!
https://i.postimg.cc/Hx2Fw0dK/mount03.jpg

On the topic of tire straps, my OP shows that I did try a 'rope' but it
broke after about only a dozen or so turns, where it wasn't doing anything
effective anyway.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

In another post, ratchet straps are mentioned. They might work. I've
always used the proper tyre strap so never tried alternatives but
whatever works.

Also on the topic of ratchet straps, Clare posted a few videos of American
ingenuity at work with homemade bazooka air blasters, where both of those
videos used a strap but to no avail.

This first video seems to use two ratchet straps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB95Eym98vs
And he used a block of wood UNDER the tire to hold the bottom bead.

While this video uses a steel strap which might be a tire strap?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqKc1h7FFc

Is _that_ steel strap a "tire strap"?


Had a friend recently have the issue. The first mistake he made was
retaining the valve core - bad move since you need a decent blast of
air.

Understood. About 40 tires ago (about a half dozen years ago or so), when I
first started mounting and balancing tires at home, I left the Shrader
valve in place - but now I habitually unscrew it before filling with a
simple custom air gun that I made by replacing the tip with the proper
fitting:
https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg

Second was he was using one of those cheap tyre inflaters on his
compressor that limits flow drastically.

Hmm.... I don't know what that is, but my compressor is a 220VAC 20-gallon
wheeled compressor with enough air to fill the tire if only I could seal it
without needing a helper (or two in this case, which was the first time in
two score tires that I needed a SECOND helper).

I told him to take it off and
blast it with the air hose plugged directly onto the valve.

Yup. That's EXACTLY what I do with this simple fitting.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

Sometimes I rubber band the trigger so the air is always flowing.

He was also
using 2 (two) tyre straps, each being over a bead. Bad move as that
forces the sidewalls inwards *away* from the beads. Just one around the
centre of the tread works perfectly and puts an outward pressure on the
bead helping to minimise air loss there.

I need to buy these tire straps... or make the bazooka Clare mentioned, but
while I have the same welding equipment everyone has, I really don't have
the skills necessary to fabricate the bazooka from scratch.

Bottom line; maximise air flow, minimise air loss.

Up until now, the one helper sufficed to push in the bead with me as I
filled the tire with air - but this set took two helpers.

I just remembered in the last set, it was a bit difficult too, but I had
attributed it to the fact I left the tape closing the bead on during
storage for a few months.
https://i.postimg.cc/DwnjgJY3/mount08.jpg

It might simply be this set of tires is a bit "loose" which made sealing
the bead just hard enough to require a second helper.

Without either a tire strap or a helper, I don't think seating these
P227/75R15 light truck (SUV) tires can be easily done with just me and the
air compressor so I am going to NEED a tire strap (or that bazooka!).
The bazooka is WAY more effective (and a lot simpler and safer) than
the strap. Many high end tire machines have it built in. I have seen
tire straps burst on radials - don't like them AT ALL. My
farmer/fabricator friend built a "bazooka" for mounting wagon tires -
works fantasic andcost him less than $30 Canadian - - -

Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 13:41:06 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Do it the Icelandic way. Spray some lighter fuel inside the tyre
and apply a flame.

I've done that redneck trick and it certainly does work.

If you dont like the idea of using flammable gas would one of these be the
answer?

Technic 20 Litre Tyre Inflator 20L / 5 Gallon Bead Seater Air Blaster
Booster Tool Tyre
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07H36ZH..._9WvCDbM7SFSA6


Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 5 Sep 2019 19:07:00 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 13:41:06 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Do it the Icelandic way. Spray some lighter fuel inside the tyre
and apply a flame.

I've done that redneck trick and it certainly does work.

If you don’t like the idea of using flammable gas would one of these be the
answer?

Technic 20 Litre Tyre Inflator 20L / 5 Gallon Bead Seater Air Blaster
Booster Tool Tyre
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07H36ZH..._9WvCDbM7SFSA6


Tim
That is the "bazooka" he talked about. Best solution - hands down.

On Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:11:28 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

The bazooka is WAY more effective (and a lot simpler and safer) than
the strap.

Thanks Clare for that vote for the bazooka where your advice is always good
advice, where you've helped me over the years, given your knowledge because
you've actually done the job (as opposed to, oh, say, Trader_4 who always
seems to be dead wrong on everything since he's actually never done
anything we are talking about).

For example, you advised me well on using the bolt on tire valves:
https://i.postimg.cc/qRG62LRT/valve04.jpg

And you helped advise me on what was wrong with my 1970's era chuck:
https://i.postimg.cc/nVPJC1Sy/valve11.jpg

And, most importantly, both you and Xeno helped me UNDERSTAND what was
causing the unusual outside wear on the front tires
https://i.postimg.cc/63Kc80x9/mount29.jpg
due to the high camber scrub inherent in slow speed mountain turns
https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg

As for banding the tire to eliminate the need for helpers, the strap I used
was a climbing rope, which broke after about a dozen turns, where the pipe
"could" have been dangerous had it hit someone.

A ratchet would have been safer but I see from what you wrote that the
bazooka is better.

After watching your videos, I noticed they both sealed the tire on the
ground, so I will also try that (where all my attempts to date were to seal
the tire while it was still mounted to the tire changer jig).

One of your videos used a block of wood UNDER the tire, while another video
used another tire under the tire - both of which I will also try.

I do very much like the idea of the bazooka, where another poster on
another ng (Tim+) kindly provided a great reference for, which I'll keep it
in mind as it's always nice NOT to need helpers when mounting and balancing
tires at home.
Technic Tyre Inflator 20L/5 Gallon Bead Seater Air Blaster Booster
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07H36ZHJ1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_9WvCDbM7SFSA6

While having tires shipped home for convenient mounting and balancing is
rewarding in and of itself, it's nice to know that the tools are available
and at a cost which equates to just about a dozen tires, where the tools
pay for themselves and start making money for us in just a couple of years,
where they allow us the fun and convenience of being able to add tire
mounting and balancing (and puncture repair) to our automotive maintenance
& repair capabilities.
1. Dedicated bead Breaker (optional, about fifty bucks or so)
2. Tire Mounter (about fifty bucks or so, comes with a baby bead breaker)
3. Wheel Balancer (optional, about seventy five bucks or so)
4. Tire inflator blaster (about fifty to seventy-five bucks or so)

Total cost of tools that we wouldn't already have is about $250, which pays
for itself after a couple of years, which for a typical household on our
mountain roads would be only a couple of years.

But even better than saving money, is all the knowledge gleefully gained,
where we can purchase, ship, dismount, mount, and balance our tires such
that we have no discernible vibration at speed, and, even more importantly,
we get to enjoy working on our cars at our own pace & convenience, knowing
that the job is done well (don't even get me started on how tire shops skip
critical steps because all they care about is how much time it takes).

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 03:25:48 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

But even better than saving money, is all the knowledge gleefully gained,
where we can purchase, ship, dismount, mount, and balance our tires such
that we have no discernible vibration at speed, and, even more importantly,
we get to enjoy working on our cars at our own pace & convenience, knowing
that the job is done well (don't even get me started on how tire shops skip
critical steps because all they care about is how much time it takes).

I should be careful not to malign all tire shops, where, it's only "some"
that cheat the customers.

For example, I've personally witnessed tire shops giving bad advice to
customers (e.g., one told a customer in front of me who had brakes done
that they "needed" new tires because the wear bars were within 2/32" of the
legal limit - which means they lied to that customer - whom I pulled aside
and advised that it's a lie that they told her).

In another case, I watched the tire shop inflate ALL tires on ALL vehicles
to the same PSI (they didn't even KNOW what it was when I asked).

And I've seen them pry off my BBS hubcaps they don't bother using the $5
tool. https://i.postimg.cc/sfqPNcVc/mount13.jpg

I've seen them torque all lug nuts (mine are bolts) to the same torque,
which, again, they didn't even KNOW what it was - they just torque ALL
wheels to the same spec.

They didn't know the bimmer I had brought in has a specification that is
different for the fronts versus the rears on tire pressure (they just
pressurize all passenger car tires to the same psi).

They didn't even know how to match mount the tires by the dots, since they
simply use the Hunter wheel balancing machine - which - one could argue -
is OK given that it will take into account mismatches - but - where - at
least theoretically - they would use the least amount of weight if they
simply bothered to match mount.

I've seen them NOT remove the old wheel weights (particularly, again, on my
BBS wheels since they're stick-on weights attached to the inside), and
certainly they don't spend the time to clean up the rim as well as you
might, at home.

The fact is that people who don't know how to mount and balance tires don't
even NOTICE how many things tire shops do wrong, but I'm not going to say
ALL tire shops skip all these steps ... but certainly I've seen many that
do.

My photos were, I'm told, instrumental in getting Midas kicked out of the
Tire Rack list of recommended retailers, for example, when I documented
them breaking just about every rule there is for mounting tires
professionally.

Having said that, the main reason you mount and balance tires at home is
because you like home maintenance and repair, where it just FEELS GOOD to
have the power to mount and balance your own tires anytime you want to in
the convenience of your own garage, where, in the end, you KNOW the job is
done right every step of the way - and if FEELS GOOD to have done it
yourself.

What feels good is
o Knowing HOW to purchase great tires on the net
o At great prices, shipped to your home
o Then being able to dismount the old tires whenever you want to
o And being able to mount & balance the new tires at your convenience
o And, being able to properly patchplug a repair whenever you need to

While for some people (like trader_4, this is too much thinking), for me,
all this convenience, learning, and utility ... is just plain fun.

Hence, I thank you for helping me learn how to do the job even better!

On 5 Sep 2019 19:07:00 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

Technic 20 Litre Tyre Inflator 20L / 5 Gallon Bead Seater Air Blaster
Booster Tool Tyre
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07H36ZH..._9WvCDbM7SFSA6

Hi Tim+,

Thanks for the purposefully helpful advice, which mirror what Clare
suggested, and he's never been wrong (just look at the great stuff he found
out for how to properly choose brake pads by the numbers, for example).

Your advice (and that of Clare, Xeno, and others who have changed tires) is
what makes this newsgroup so rewarding for all concerned.

Searching for American sources, that bead blaster seems pretty common
https://www.amazon.com/tire-air-blaster/s?k=tire+air+blaster
With prices being roughly around $70 to about $115 US dollars, which is
fine for this type of tool, given each tire mounting and balancing sequence
(for five tires) costs about $100 which is done around once a year. pm
average. assuming you have a few vehicles in your household like most
Americans do.

Doing the obligatory 50-year math...
o Over 50 years, that's about $5,000 spent on tire mounting & balancing
o With a cost of, oh, say $300 for tools, that cost drops to $4,700

However, the main reason for doing ANY automotive maintenance & repair job
at home isn't so much that you always save lots of money - but that you
LEARN a lot (e.g., you learn how to purchase tires by the numbers) - and
you ENJOY a lot (it's just sheer joy to have the power to fix stuff at
home), and you do it RIGHT (since time isn't your concern while at a shop,
time is a critical concern of theirs) - and most importantly - you do it
when you feel like doing it at your CONVENIENCE (which is a lot of fun).

One more thing that you GAIN by DIY maintenance & repair is that you can do
MORE of it ...

For example, on our mountain, we all burn though front tires on their
outside edges
https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg
due to what Xeno & Clare have explained is likely camber scrub:
https://i.postimg.cc/G3HWPtQg/mount39.jpg
where the effect is noticeable on front tires in a few thousand miles
https://i.postimg.cc/8zVxVHVx/mount40.jpg
and, where close observation shows the effect in only hundreds of miles
https://i.postimg.cc/pT71cQZG/mount41.jpg
such that one side of the tire is worn while the other half is fine
https://i.postimg.cc/G2rYpQnp/mount23.jpg
and where frequent tire rotation only resolves half the problem
https://i.postimg.cc/63Kc80x9/mount29.jpg
Since the tire is still rotating in the same direction on the wheel.

While there are amelioration techniques that Xeno & Clare have outlined
such as lessening positive front caster, the wear is due to the un-natural
positive camber that the inside wheel takes on sharp turns:
https://i.postimg.cc/YqHVb5gY/mount33.jpg
such that the inside front wheel outside corner takes the brunt of it
https://i.postimg.cc/hGvsXBjK/mount34.jpg
meaning there's only so much you can play with in terms of home alignment
https://i.postimg.cc/vZs6Vm3B/mount35.jpg
given it's always going to wear the outside edge of the front tires
https://i.postimg.cc/wTf1xnzJ/mount36.jpg

The simplest solution, which most people never do, would be to FLIP the
wheels on the rim at the normal 5,000 mile rotation point.
https://i.postimg.cc/26DfF8vq/mount02.jpg

If you don't know how to flip a tire on the rim in a few minutes, you
likely won't do it, since it would cost $20 per rotation which is $100 just
to flip the tires (even Costco charges for flipping tires on the rim, even
if you bought the tires from them and had them initially mount them).

Since it would cost more than the tires to flip them every 5000 miles on
the rim, doing the work at home is not only fun and convenient, but, doing
the work at home means you will be saving tires from the landfill which is
the environmental friendly thing to do.

In summary, not only is it fun and convenient to DIY at home, but it
enables you to minimize the impact on the environment because you can do
things that few people would do if they couldn't do them easily at home.

On 6/9/19 12:57 am, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 12:36:27 +1000, Xeno wrote:

Yes to the first.
Tyre strap for the second.
One strap only around the middle of the tyre.

Hi Xeno,

Thanks for the vote on the tire straps, where you were instrumental in
helping me hone WHY almost all the tires on this mountain wear out on the
outside edge of the front tires before anything else!
https://i.postimg.cc/Hx2Fw0dK/mount03.jpg

On the topic of tire straps, my OP shows that I did try a 'rope' but it
broke after about only a dozen or so turns, where it wasn't doing anything
effective anyway.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

In another post, ratchet straps are mentioned. They might work. I've
always used the proper tyre strap so never tried alternatives but
whatever works.

Also on the topic of ratchet straps, Clare posted a few videos of American
ingenuity at work with homemade bazooka air blasters, where both of those
videos used a strap but to no avail.

Yes, Clare's point is well made re straps and belted/steel belted
radials. The belt reduces the tread flexibility somewhat making the task
more difficult. That said, I have always managed to get tyres inflated
using the proper designed for purpose tyre strap.

This first video seems to use two ratchet straps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB95Eym98vs
And he used a block of wood UNDER the tire to hold the bottom bead.

While this video uses a steel strap which might be a tire strap?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqKc1h7FFc

Is _that_ steel strap a "tire strap"?

Steel straps might be dangerous in case of breakage.

Had a friend recently have the issue. The first mistake he made was
retaining the valve core - bad move since you need a decent blast of
air.

Understood. About 40 tires ago (about a half dozen years ago or so), when I
first started mounting and balancing tires at home, I left the Shrader
valve in place - but now I habitually unscrew it before filling with a
simple custom air gun that I made by replacing the tip with the proper
fitting:
https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg

Second was he was using one of those cheap tyre inflaters on his
compressor that limits flow drastically.

Hmm.... I don't know what that is, but my compressor is a 220VAC 20-gallon
wheeled compressor with enough air to fill the tire if only I could seal it
without needing a helper (or two in this case, which was the first time in
two score tires that I needed a SECOND helper).

Standard tyre gauge/inflator of the type you get with cheapo compressors
and at cheapo automotive stores. Always too restrictive on air flow.

I told him to take it off and
blast it with the air hose plugged directly onto the valve.

Yup. That's EXACTLY what I do with this simple fitting.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

Sometimes I rubber band the trigger so the air is always flowing.

In the case of my friend, I told him to use the air control valve on the
compressor in order to get a sufficiently large and *sudden* blast of air.

He was also
using 2 (two) tyre straps, each being over a bead. Bad move as that
forces the sidewalls inwards *away* from the beads. Just one around the
centre of the tread works perfectly and puts an outward pressure on the
bead helping to minimise air loss there.

I need to buy these tire straps... or make the bazooka Clare mentioned, but
while I have the same welding equipment everyone has, I really don't have
the skills necessary to fabricate the bazooka from scratch.

Bottom line; maximise air flow, minimise air loss.

Up until now, the one helper sufficed to push in the bead with me as I
filled the tire with air - but this set took two helpers.

I always inflate with the tyre flat on the ground. The rim should be in
roughly in the central position between tyre beads. Might need to
position the rim on a couple of pieces of wood to achieve this on some
tyres. I have sometimes found it prudent to start the bead on one side
onto the rim, usually the rear, then flip the tyre/rim over and the
downward force on the rim brings the upper bead close to, if not
touching, the upper rim. It can be a frustrating exercise sometimes but
I have never been forced to resort to extreme measures like explosive
gases.

I just remembered in the last set, it was a bit difficult too, but I had
attributed it to the fact I left the tape closing the bead on during
storage for a few months.
https://i.postimg.cc/DwnjgJY3/mount08.jpg

It might simply be this set of tires is a bit "loose" which made sealing
the bead just hard enough to require a second helper.

In days of yore, I used to stretch the beads apart with a tyre spreader;

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l300...53731918_1.jpg

Not the same as the type I used but should be Ok. Just work around the
tyre spreading it apart and hope it retains some spread when released.
That used to work in the days of stiff tyre sidewalls but may be a tad
iffish in this era of limp radial sidewalls. If nothing else, it's a
handy tool for spreading tyres in order to check for damage to the inner
carcase.

Without either a tire strap or a helper, I don't think seating these
P227/75R15 light truck (SUV) tires can be easily done with just me and the
air compressor so I am going to NEED a tire strap (or that bazooka!).



--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 03:25:48 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:11:28 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

The bazooka is WAY more effective (and a lot simpler and safer) than
the strap.

Thanks Clare for that vote for the bazooka where your advice is always good
advice, where you've helped me over the years, given your knowledge because
you've actually done the job (as opposed to, oh, say, Trader_4 who always
seems to be dead wrong on everything since he's actually never done
anything we are talking about).

For example, you advised me well on using the bolt on tire valves:
https://i.postimg.cc/qRG62LRT/valve04.jpg

And you helped advise me on what was wrong with my 1970's era chuck:
https://i.postimg.cc/nVPJC1Sy/valve11.jpg

And, most importantly, both you and Xeno helped me UNDERSTAND what was
causing the unusual outside wear on the front tires
https://i.postimg.cc/63Kc80x9/mount29.jpg
due to the high camber scrub inherent in slow speed mountain turns
https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg

As for banding the tire to eliminate the need for helpers, the strap I used
was a climbing rope, which broke after about a dozen turns, where the pipe
"could" have been dangerous had it hit someone.

A ratchet would have been safer but I see from what you wrote that the
bazooka is better.

After watching your videos, I noticed they both sealed the tire on the
ground, so I will also try that (where all my attempts to date were to seal
the tire while it was still mounted to the tire changer jig).


The only advantage to doing it on the ground is the "Bazooka" is
heavy and clumsy
One of your videos used a block of wood UNDER the tire, while another video
used another tire under the tire - both of which I will also try.

I do very much like the idea of the bazooka, where another poster on
another ng (Tim+) kindly provided a great reference for, which I'll keep it
in mind as it's always nice NOT to need helpers when mounting and balancing
tires at home.
Technic Tyre Inflator 20L/5 Gallon Bead Seater Air Blaster Booster
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07H36ZHJ1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_9WvCDbM7SFSA6

For roughly $60 pretty hard to make your own - - - -

While having tires shipped home for convenient mounting and balancing is
rewarding in and of itself, it's nice to know that the tools are available
and at a cost which equates to just about a dozen tires, where the tools
pay for themselves and start making money for us in just a couple of years,
where they allow us the fun and convenience of being able to add tire
mounting and balancing (and puncture repair) to our automotive maintenance
& repair capabilities.
1. Dedicated bead Breaker (optional, about fifty bucks or so)
2. Tire Mounter (about fifty bucks or so, comes with a baby bead breaker)
3. Wheel Balancer (optional, about seventy five bucks or so)
4. Tire inflator blaster (about fifty to seventy-five bucks or so)

Total cost of tools that we wouldn't already have is about $250, which pays
for itself after a couple of years, which for a typical household on our
mountain roads would be only a couple of years.

But even better than saving money, is all the knowledge gleefully gained,
where we can purchase, ship, dismount, mount, and balance our tires such
that we have no discernible vibration at speed, and, even more importantly,
we get to enjoy working on our cars at our own pace & convenience, knowing
that the job is done well (don't even get me started on how tire shops skip
critical steps because all they care about is how much time it takes).

On 6/9/19 5:07 am, Tim+ wrote:
Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 13:41:06 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Do it the Icelandic way. Spray some lighter fuel inside the tyre
and apply a flame.

I've done that redneck trick and it certainly does work.

If you dont like the idea of using flammable gas would one of these be the
answer?

Technic 20 Litre Tyre Inflator 20L / 5 Gallon Bead Seater Air Blaster
Booster Tool Tyre
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07H36ZH..._9WvCDbM7SFSA6


Tim

That looks like a neat piece of kit! Simple and safe too. Win win.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/9/19 2:15 pm, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On 5 Sep 2019 19:07:00 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

Technic 20 Litre Tyre Inflator 20L / 5 Gallon Bead Seater Air Blaster
Booster Tool Tyre
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07H36ZH..._9WvCDbM7SFSA6

Hi Tim+,

Thanks for the purposefully helpful advice, which mirror what Clare
suggested, and he's never been wrong (just look at the great stuff he found
out for how to properly choose brake pads by the numbers, for example).

Your advice (and that of Clare, Xeno, and others who have changed tires) is
what makes this newsgroup so rewarding for all concerned.

Searching for American sources, that bead blaster seems pretty common
https://www.amazon.com/tire-air-blaster/s?k=tire+air+blaster
With prices being roughly around $70 to about $115 US dollars, which is
fine for this type of tool, given each tire mounting and balancing sequence
(for five tires) costs about $100 which is done around once a year. pm
average. assuming you have a few vehicles in your household like most
Americans do.

Doing the obligatory 50-year math...
o Over 50 years, that's about $5,000 spent on tire mounting & balancing
o With a cost of, oh, say $300 for tools, that cost drops to $4,700

However, the main reason for doing ANY automotive maintenance & repair job
at home isn't so much that you always save lots of money - but that you
LEARN a lot (e.g., you learn how to purchase tires by the numbers) - and
you ENJOY a lot (it's just sheer joy to have the power to fix stuff at
home), and you do it RIGHT (since time isn't your concern while at a shop,
time is a critical concern of theirs) - and most importantly - you do it
when you feel like doing it at your CONVENIENCE (which is a lot of fun).

One more thing that you GAIN by DIY maintenance & repair is that you can do
MORE of it ...

For example, on our mountain, we all burn though front tires on their
outside edges
https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg
due to what Xeno & Clare have explained is likely camber scrub:
https://i.postimg.cc/G3HWPtQg/mount39.jpg
where the effect is noticeable on front tires in a few thousand miles
https://i.postimg.cc/8zVxVHVx/mount40.jpg
and, where close observation shows the effect in only hundreds of miles
https://i.postimg.cc/pT71cQZG/mount41.jpg
such that one side of the tire is worn while the other half is fine
https://i.postimg.cc/G2rYpQnp/mount23.jpg
and where frequent tire rotation only resolves half the problem
https://i.postimg.cc/63Kc80x9/mount29.jpg
Since the tire is still rotating in the same direction on the wheel.

While there are amelioration techniques that Xeno & Clare have outlined
such as lessening positive front caster, the wear is due to the un-natural
positive camber that the inside wheel takes on sharp turns:
https://i.postimg.cc/YqHVb5gY/mount33.jpg
such that the inside front wheel outside corner takes the brunt of it
https://i.postimg.cc/hGvsXBjK/mount34.jpg
meaning there's only so much you can play with in terms of home alignment
https://i.postimg.cc/vZs6Vm3B/mount35.jpg
given it's always going to wear the outside edge of the front tires
https://i.postimg.cc/wTf1xnzJ/mount36.jpg

The simplest solution, which most people never do, would be to FLIP the
wheels on the rim at the normal 5,000 mile rotation point.
https://i.postimg.cc/26DfF8vq/mount02.jpg

If you don't know how to flip a tire on the rim in a few minutes, you
likely won't do it, since it would cost $20 per rotation which is $100 just
to flip the tires (even Costco charges for flipping tires on the rim, even
if you bought the tires from them and had them initially mount them).

Since it would cost more than the tires to flip them every 5000 miles on
the rim, doing the work at home is not only fun and convenient, but, doing

Given I spent years on the tools, I don't see flipping tyres on the rim
as either fun or convenient, especially since I'm on the wrong side of
65. I'm happy to just replace the tyres earlier than usual.

the work at home means you will be saving tires from the landfill which is
the environmental friendly thing to do.

In summary, not only is it fun and convenient to DIY at home, but it
enables you to minimize the impact on the environment because you can do
things that few people would do if they couldn't do them easily at home.



--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Arlen G. Holder wrote:

I've seen them NOT remove the old wheel weights (particularly, again, on my
BBS wheels since they're stick-on weights attached to the inside), and
certainly they don't spend the time to clean up the rim as well as you
might, at home.

Oh, pffffftt.
Removing old weights is highly overrated.
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1tLKv...u-pZaTyE8RZlH9

On 6/9/19 11:41 am, Clare Snyder wrote:
On 5 Sep 2019 19:07:00 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 13:41:06 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Do it the Icelandic way. Spray some lighter fuel inside the tyre
and apply a flame.

I've done that redneck trick and it certainly does work.

If you dont like the idea of using flammable gas would one of these be the
answer?

Technic 20 Litre Tyre Inflator 20L / 5 Gallon Bead Seater Air Blaster
Booster Tool Tyre
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07H36ZH..._9WvCDbM7SFSA6


Tim
That is the "bazooka" he talked about. Best solution - hands down.

I'd have to agree. It follows the principle I use, a lot of air quickly!

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Fri, 06 Sep 2019 00:17:35 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

The only advantage to doing it on the ground is the "Bazooka" is
heavy and clumsy

Thanks Clare for that advice since I was wondering if it was useful since
the guys didn't use the tire mounter in those videos - but left the tire
flat on the ground.

The bazooka is a bit heavy and clumsy where safety is always an issue
https://www.amazon.com/Biltek-Blaster-Inflator-Tractor-Seating/dp/B00K326BY4

One advantage of the tire being on the mounting jig, of course, is that it
stays put when you're adding the air, which, since that's a dangerous part
of the operating (you don't want a finger caught at the bead when it pops),
it seems reasonable to keep it on the jig until the bead is seated.

Most people seem to do the job with the tire on the ground (or on wood):
https://youtu.be/aLBRMpyU_Z0?t=245

For roughly $60 pretty hard to make your own - - - -

I agree with you that the tools are cheap enough to make home creation only
something to do if it's a lot of fun:
https://www.amazon.com/tire-air-blaster/s?k=tire+air+blaster

I have welding equipment and cutting equipment, but I agree that it is best
to just buy the right tool such as those above, which I didn't know about
until you told me - so that's the fun of learning from others on this ng.

One thing I look at, with tools, is the expensive stuff, to see what's
different, where, I'm not sure what makes this one $250 yet...
https://www.eagleequip.com/product/EAGGAIBB6LM.html

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 14:22:16 +1000, Xeno wrote:

Given I spent years on the tools, I don't see flipping tyres on the rim
as either fun or convenient, especially since I'm on the wrong side of
65. I'm happy to just replace the tyres earlier than usual.

Hi Xeno,

You were instrumental in explaining the "camber scrub" issue, which your
experience enabled you to recognize, even as there is almost noting on the
web that is specific to the type of wear that a mountain road causes.

You were able to do that because of the KNOWLEDGE you learned over those
years, where, for me, simply learning stuff is fun.

Also, for me, the feeling of sheer POWER is exhilarating, that I can do
some of the jobs at home that almost nobody does at home, usually because
they're afraid (e.g., winding garage door springs or installing coiled
struts) or because they're simply unable to learn details (as in the case
of trader_4), or because they don't want to get their hands dirty, etc.

What I LOVE about automotive repair is a whole bunch of things, all of
which take effort to accomplish, but once accomplished, you always have,
such as the KNOWLEDGE of how to do the job right, and the SATISFACTION of
doing it right, and the CONVENIENCE of doing it when you feel like it, and
the SAFETY of knowing it's done right and the EFFICIENCY of doing it at the
lowest possible cost (saving about $5,000 dollars in a 50-year worktime)
and, as I mentioned, also being good for the ENVIRONMENT (adding an extra
few thousand miles to tire wear should help the environment).

As for flipping tires on the rim, I would agree that most people don't NEED
to do it; but for our particular mountain road situation, you, of all
people, can at least comprehend the viability of being able to do so is a
nice thing to have under our belts, particularly if you're like me who
likes to get as many miles out of a set of rubber as is possible.
https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg

Of all people on this ng, you and Clare are just about the main ones who
KNOW how this business works - even down to diagnosing the specific problem
we had with diagnosing the highly unusual wear patters we've been
experiencing, where this
https://i.postimg.cc/zvvyL2tq/mount24.jpg
soon turns into this
https://i.postimg.cc/63Kc80x9/mount29.jpg
And then, eventually, into this:
https://i.postimg.cc/Hx2Fw0dK/mount03.jpg

Where, you have to admit, flipping the tires on the rim is one of a few
amelioration techniques (along with lessening front positive caster).

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 14:17:47 +1000, Xeno wrote:

That looks like a neat piece of kit! Simple and safe too. Win win.

Even with the strap, and the bazooka in the background,
these guys opted for the flames!
https://youtu.be/lsnf3Zj0Vb8?t=214

On 6/9/19 3:46 pm, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 14:17:47 +1000, Xeno wrote:

That looks like a neat piece of kit! Simple and safe too. Win win.

Even with the strap, and the bazooka in the background,
these guys opted for the flames!
https://youtu.be/lsnf3Zj0Vb8?t=214

With the flame you have little if any control.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 15:52:17 +1000, Xeno wrote:

With the flame you have little if any control.

Hi Xeno,
I'm one of the few people on this ng who have DONE the flame method.
I agree it's so fast, there's no way you can control it.

I've done it - but I don't like it at all.

What I really like is THIS deluxe wheeled bazooka setup!
https://youtu.be/TniM_CyJxiI?t=83

I haven't seen anything nicer than that one!
OTC Tire Bead Seater - #5713

Although this uses a "tire ring" which is new to me:
https://youtu.be/RduiwJk5z9Q?t=27

This guy used a bicycle tube, which was explained earlier:
https://youtu.be/0LqVs7jwVFI?t=51
which is a 16 inch x 1.75 bicycle tube for a 16-inch car wheel.

Knowing how tightly a bead seats, I'm surprised the bicycle tube can be
pulled out so easily.

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 14:16:40 +1000, Xeno wrote:

Yes, Clare's point is well made re straps and belted/steel belted
radials. The belt reduces the tread flexibility somewhat making the task
more difficult. That said, I have always managed to get tyres inflated
using the proper designed for purpose tyre strap.

In keeping with American ingenuity, this guy uses "murphy's soap"
https://youtu.be/b6N-FggwggY?t=141

He calls the technique "beading up".

This guy uses the flamethrower method of lighting the aerosol:
https://youtu.be/-_SubrPR7gE?t=412

Here's a tool review of the 10 gallon bazooka
https://youtu.be/dW96MJBNqb4?t=331

What I love is that these tools eliminate the need for a helper!

On 9/6/2019 12:52 AM, Xeno wrote:
On 6/9/19 3:46 pm, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 14:17:47 +1000, Xeno wrote:

That looks like a neat piece of kit! Simple and safe too.
Win win.

Even with the strap, and the bazooka in the background,
these guys opted for the flames!
https://youtu.be/lsnf3Zj0Vb8?t=214

With the flame you have little if any control.



What ever could go wrong?


https://ktla.com/2019/05/15/worker-d...f-los-angeles/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, September 5, 2019 at 11:25:51 PM UTC-4, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:11:28 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

The bazooka is WAY more effective (and a lot simpler and safer) than
the strap.

Thanks Clare for that vote for the bazooka where your advice is always good
advice, where you've helped me over the years, given your knowledge because
you've actually done the job (as opposed to, oh, say, Trader_4 who always
seems to be dead wrong on everything since he's actually never done
anything we are talking about).

That's a lie. I told you I changed tires when I was a kid. I know
EXACTLY what is involved, which is why for $15 a tire, I get them
mounted and dynamically balanced at a tire shop.

On Fri, 06 Sep 2019 07:45:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

What ever could go wrong?
https://ktla.com/2019/05/15/worker-d...f-los-angeles/

I looked to see WHY but the article doesn't say WHY the accident occurred.
"Authorities did not provide any additional information about the
incident which is being investigated by a number of agencies including
Cal/OSHA and the Los Angeles Port Police."

Since it occurred on MAY 15, 2019, we might be able to find something about
HOW it happened (e.g., were they using the flame method?).

This is one thing that's a problem with news, which is that they don't
bother to close the gap when they find out more, sometimes.

I searched for more information that was recent but haven't found it yet,
so we really don't know what happened.

It does seem like those BIG tires do kill workers though...
February 20, 2019
Worker Killed By Exploding Tire At John Wayne Airport
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/02/20/worker-killed-by-exploding-tire-at-john-wayne-airport/
"One worker was on top of the tire, and the other on the bottom, when it
exploded."

In both cases, I'd expect a report somewhere from Cal OSHA.

Here is a list of their main risks:
https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/shop-operations/training-resources/article/10628402/osha-releases-new-tire-training-resources

In rec.autos.tech AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 12:52 AM, Xeno wrote:
On 6/9/19 3:46 pm, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 14:17:47 +1000, Xeno wrote:

That looks like a neat piece of kit! Simple and safe too.
Win win.

Even with the strap, and the bazooka in the background,
these guys opted for the flames!
https://youtu.be/lsnf3Zj0Vb8?t=214

With the flame you have little if any control.



What ever could go wrong?


https://ktla.com/2019/05/15/worker-d...f-los-angeles/

No mention in that article of using a flammable liquid or vapor to
seat the bead explosively. Plenty of stories about exploding tires on
split rims from improper technique which have nothing to do with fire.

This is why large truck tires on split rims are inflated in safety
cages.

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Safety_Alerts...it_Rim_Wheels/

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 14:16:40 +1000, Xeno
wrote:

On 6/9/19 12:57 am, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 12:36:27 +1000, Xeno wrote:

Yes to the first.
Tyre strap for the second.
One strap only around the middle of the tyre.

Hi Xeno,

Thanks for the vote on the tire straps, where you were instrumental in
helping me hone WHY almost all the tires on this mountain wear out on the
outside edge of the front tires before anything else!
https://i.postimg.cc/Hx2Fw0dK/mount03.jpg

On the topic of tire straps, my OP shows that I did try a 'rope' but it
broke after about only a dozen or so turns, where it wasn't doing anything
effective anyway.
https://i.postimg.cc/J4d9vdm0/mount55.jpg

In another post, ratchet straps are mentioned. They might work. I've
always used the proper tyre strap so never tried alternatives but
whatever works.

Also on the topic of ratchet straps, Clare posted a few videos of American
ingenuity at work with homemade bazooka air blasters, where both of those
videos used a strap but to no avail.

Yes, Clare's point is well made re straps and belted/steel belted
radials. The belt reduces the tread flexibility somewhat making the task
more difficult. That said, I have always managed to get tyres inflated
using the proper designed for purpose tyre strap.

This first video seems to use two ratchet straps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB95Eym98vs
And he used a block of wood UNDER the tire to hold the bottom bead.

While this video uses a steel strap which might be a tire strap?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqKc1h7FFc

Is _that_ steel strap a "tire strap"?

Steel straps might be dangerous in case of breakage.

Had a friend recently have the issue. The first mistake he made was
retaining the valve core - bad move since you need a decent blast of
air.

Understood. About 40 tires ago (about a half dozen years ago or so), when I
first started mounting and balancing tires at home, I left the Shrader
valve in place - but now I habitually unscrew it before filling with a
simple custom air gun that I made by replacing the tip with the proper
fitting:
https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg

Second was he was using one of those cheap tyre inflaters on his
compressor that limits flow drastically.

Hmm.... I don't know what that is, but my compressor is a 220VAC 20-gallon
wheeled compressor with enough air to fill the tire if only I could seal it
without needing a helper (or two in this case, which was the first time in
two score tires that I needed a SECOND helper).

Standard tyre gauge/inflator of the type you get with cheapo compressors
and at cheapo automotive stores. Always too restrictive on air flow.

I told him to take it off and
blast it with the air hose plugged directly onto the valve.

Yup. That's EXACTLY what I do with this simple fitting.
https://i.postimg.cc/4yxSFpSp/mount57.jpg

Sometimes I rubber band the trigger so the air is always flowing.

In the case of my friend, I told him to use the air control valve on the
compressor in order to get a sufficiently large and *sudden* blast of air.

He was also
using 2 (two) tyre straps, each being over a bead. Bad move as that
forces the sidewalls inwards *away* from the beads. Just one around the
centre of the tread works perfectly and puts an outward pressure on the
bead helping to minimise air loss there.

I need to buy these tire straps... or make the bazooka Clare mentioned, but
while I have the same welding equipment everyone has, I really don't have
the skills necessary to fabricate the bazooka from scratch.

Bottom line; maximise air flow, minimise air loss.

Up until now, the one helper sufficed to push in the bead with me as I
filled the tire with air - but this set took two helpers.

I always inflate with the tyre flat on the ground. The rim should be in
roughly in the central position between tyre beads. Might need to
position the rim on a couple of pieces of wood to achieve this on some
tyres. I have sometimes found it prudent to start the bead on one side
onto the rim, usually the rear, then flip the tyre/rim over and the
downward force on the rim brings the upper bead close to, if not
touching, the upper rim. It can be a frustrating exercise sometimes but
I have never been forced to resort to extreme measures like explosive
gases.

I often found having the tire upright made it easier to inflate.
Always partly mount one bead first by hand to center the rim in thr
tire. Bouncing the tire a bit often helps get the final bead to set

I just remembered in the last set, it was a bit difficult too, but I had
attributed it to the fact I left the tape closing the bead on during
storage for a few months.
https://i.postimg.cc/DwnjgJY3/mount08.jpg

It might simply be this set of tires is a bit "loose" which made sealing
the bead just hard enough to require a second helper.

In days of yore, I used to stretch the beads apart with a tyre spreader;

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l300...53731918_1.jpg

Not the same as the type I used but should be Ok. Just work around the
tyre spreading it apart and hope it retains some spread when released.
That used to work in the days of stiff tyre sidewalls but may be a tad
iffish in this era of limp radial sidewalls. If nothing else, it's a
handy tool for spreading tyres in order to check for damage to the inner
carcase.

Without either a tire strap or a helper, I don't think seating these
P227/75R15 light truck (SUV) tires can be easily done with just me and the
air compressor so I am going to NEED a tire strap (or that bazooka!).

On Thu, 05 Sep 2019 21:23:22 -0700, Sanity Clause
wrote:

Arlen G. Holder wrote:

I've seen them NOT remove the old wheel weights (particularly, again, on my
BBS wheels since they're stick-on weights attached to the inside), and
certainly they don't spend the time to clean up the rim as well as you
might, at home.

Oh, pffffftt.
Removing old weights is highly overrated.
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1tLKv...u-pZaTyE8RZlH9

Only an idiot leaves them on - - -

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 04:32:49 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Sep 2019 00:17:35 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

The only advantage to doing it on the ground is the "Bazooka" is
heavy and clumsy

Thanks Clare for that advice since I was wondering if it was useful since
the guys didn't use the tire mounter in those videos - but left the tire
flat on the ground.

The bazooka is a bit heavy and clumsy where safety is always an issue
https://www.amazon.com/Biltek-Blaster-Inflator-Tractor-Seating/dp/B00K326BY4

One advantage of the tire being on the mounting jig, of course, is that it
stays put when you're adding the air, which, since that's a dangerous part
of the operating (you don't want a finger caught at the bead when it pops),
it seems reasonable to keep it on the jig until the bead is seated.

Most people seem to do the job with the tire on the ground (or on wood):
https://youtu.be/aLBRMpyU_Z0?t=245

For roughly $60 pretty hard to make your own - - - -

I agree with you that the tools are cheap enough to make home creation only
something to do if it's a lot of fun:
https://www.amazon.com/tire-air-blaster/s?k=tire+air+blaster

I have welding equipment and cutting equipment, but I agree that it is best
to just buy the right tool such as those above, which I didn't know about
until you told me - so that's the fun of learning from others on this ng.

One thing I look at, with tools, is the expensive stuff, to see what's
different, where, I'm not sure what makes this one $250 yet...
https://www.eagleequip.com/product/EAGGAIBB6LM.html
The styling - and of couese - THE DECAL.

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 05:46:00 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 14:17:47 +1000, Xeno wrote:

That looks like a neat piece of kit! Simple and safe too. Win win.

Even with the strap, and the bazooka in the background,
these guys opted for the flames!
https://youtu.be/lsnf3Zj0Vb8?t=214
I'll bet it was a case of "hey - hold my beer and watch this!!!!"

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 06:05:15 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 15:52:17 +1000, Xeno wrote:

With the flame you have little if any control.

Hi Xeno,
I'm one of the few people on this ng who have DONE the flame method.
I agree it's so fast, there's no way you can control it.

I've done it - but I don't like it at all.

What I really like is THIS deluxe wheeled bazooka setup!
https://youtu.be/TniM_CyJxiI?t=83

I haven't seen anything nicer than that one!
OTC Tire Bead Seater - #5713

Although this uses a "tire ring" which is new to me:
https://youtu.be/RduiwJk5z9Q?t=27

This guy used a bicycle tube, which was explained earlier:
https://youtu.be/0LqVs7jwVFI?t=51
which is a 16 inch x 1.75 bicycle tube for a 16-inch car wheel.

Knowing how tightly a bead seats, I'm surprised the bicycle tube can be
pulled out so easily.
Lots of "Ruglyde" on the rimand tire bead - without it the tube gets
a big "snake-bite"

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 16:22:05 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Sep 2019 07:45:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

What ever could go wrong?
https://ktla.com/2019/05/15/worker-d...f-los-angeles/

I looked to see WHY but the article doesn't say WHY the accident occurred.
"Authorities did not provide any additional information about the
incident which is being investigated by a number of agencies including
Cal/OSHA and the Los Angeles Port Police."

Since it occurred on MAY 15, 2019, we might be able to find something about
HOW it happened (e.g., were they using the flame method?).

This is one thing that's a problem with news, which is that they don't
bother to close the gap when they find out more, sometimes.

I searched for more information that was recent but haven't found it yet,
so we really don't know what happened.

It does seem like those BIG tires do kill workers though...
February 20, 2019
Worker Killed By Exploding Tire At John Wayne Airport
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/02/20/worker-killed-by-exploding-tire-at-john-wayne-airport/
"One worker was on top of the tire, and the other on the bottom, when it
exploded."

In both cases, I'd expect a report somewhere from Cal OSHA.

Here is a list of their main risks:
https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/shop-operations/training-resources/article/10628402/osha-releases-new-tire-training-resources
The old "split ring" rims were so dangerous it was illegal to
inflate/mount them without a cage - lots of guys just chained them but
I've seen them "jump the chain" - if you were within range it would
cut you in half !!