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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below. I'm no longer in Kansas -- I'm in crazy town.

I call genius project manager the day after I paid him and got his
answering machine. I left a polite detailed message about the problem.
On the machine, I told him it appears that the gutter needs a 2.5" or 3"
spacer off the fascia to be in a workable position. No answer 2 days
later.

I call him again. This time I reach him on the phone and politely
explain the problem .... again. He tells me he's "out of town" and won't
be back to the end of the week. He says he'll get back with me at the
beginning of the next week. He says a spacer is not needed. He says
he'll install some gizmo on top of the gutter. WTF? I don't see that
working. Perhaps some of you real pros know what this gent is talking
about?

I'm so far back in the sticks that getting another pro out here is
problematic. Skilled labor can be a crapshoot here. How far do I let
this gent go before bringing in another company from the nearest city and
taking the original guy to small claims court?





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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:39:39 -0700, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:



Idiot




Huh? Care to elaborate?
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:38:40 +0000 (UTC), MarkK
wrote:

Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below. I'm no longer in Kansas -- I'm in crazy town.

I call genius project manager the day after I paid him and got his
answering machine. I left a polite detailed message about the problem.
On the machine, I told him it appears that the gutter needs a 2.5" or 3"
spacer off the fascia to be in a workable position. No answer 2 days
later.

I call him again. This time I reach him on the phone and politely
explain the problem .... again. He tells me he's "out of town" and won't
be back to the end of the week. He says he'll get back with me at the
beginning of the next week. He says a spacer is not needed. He says
he'll install some gizmo on top of the gutter. WTF? I don't see that
working. Perhaps some of you real pros know what this gent is talking
about?

I'm so far back in the sticks that getting another pro out here is
problematic. Skilled labor can be a crapshoot here. How far do I let
this gent go before bringing in another company from the nearest city and
taking the original guy to small claims court?




Take some photos of the installation and take some video of the
problem during a rain. .. not just to show us - but to get some
satisfaction in small claims court. Take photos and talk to other
homeowners about their steel roofing + gutters.
A friend of mine had a bunch of problems with a home renovation -
by a supposedly reputable company - he didn't get any follow-up
work done until he spoke to the company owner and said that he
was set to tell his story - all over social media -
the company owner decided, finally, to treat it as a priority -
because his name was on all the trucks and advertising ..
John T.


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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On 7/22/2019 8:38 PM, MarkK wrote:
Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below. I'm no longer in Kansas -- I'm in crazy town.



I'm so far back in the sticks that getting another pro out here is
problematic. Skilled labor can be a crapshoot here. How far do I let
this gent go before bringing in another company from the nearest city and
taking the original guy to small claims court?


In a heavy rain I can see it going far and missing the gutter. He may
be able to add a drip edge to help.

As mentioned, take a video for evidence. Sounds like the guy is jerking
you around.
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On 7/22/2019 5:50 PM, MarkK wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:39:39 -0700, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:



Idiot




Huh? Care to elaborate?


Just killfile the resident troll.



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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:38:40 +0000 (UTC), MarkK
wrote:

Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below.


I had the same problem with the new roof and gutters the contractor
installed. I called a gutter company to check it out. They found the
roof too long, and just trimmed it back.

Note, they also found things such as missing gutter nails and improper
gutter slope. The roof may not be the entire problem.

-dan z-



--
Someone who thinks logically provides
a nice contrast to the real world.
(Anonymous)
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 8:38:48 PM UTC-4, MarkK wrote:
Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below. I'm no longer in Kansas -- I'm in crazy town.

I call genius project manager the day after I paid him and got his
answering machine. I left a polite detailed message about the problem.
On the machine, I told him it appears that the gutter needs a 2.5" or 3"
spacer off the fascia to be in a workable position. No answer 2 days
later.

I call him again. This time I reach him on the phone and politely
explain the problem .... again. He tells me he's "out of town" and won't
be back to the end of the week. He says he'll get back with me at the
beginning of the next week. He says a spacer is not needed. He says
he'll install some gizmo on top of the gutter. WTF? I don't see that
working. Perhaps some of you real pros know what this gent is talking
about?

I'm so far back in the sticks that getting another pro out here is
problematic. Skilled labor can be a crapshoot here. How far do I let
this gent go before bringing in another company from the nearest city and
taking the original guy to small claims court?


The obvious real problem here is that you're dealing with an incompetent
roofer. It was likely just as easy to do it right. I say likely, because
the only reason I can see for doing it wrong would be that he might have
figured out that by doing it that way it worked out to an even sheet of
material from bottom to top of the roof, so he saved some cutting. But it
was clearly done wrong and now your left with trying to get a shyster to
do it right and he may be incapable of that. Actually, IDK what really can
be done, because what's there is too long. Did you check this shyster out,
get references?

I'd say you should give him a chance to fix it, it's not exactly a real
emergency. Give him a couple weeks or so. But I also would insist on
knowing exactly what he's planning on doing, that you have to approve it.
I would not let him do something stupid, that will only make it worse.
If he can't do it right, then get another roofer who can, take pics and/or
videos of it, especially in a rain, then try to recover your costs from him.
You can probably win easily in small claims, collecting it though is another
matter.
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:06:58 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:38:40 +0000 (UTC), MarkK
wrote:

Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below. I'm no longer in Kansas -- I'm in crazy town.

I call genius project manager the day after I paid him and got his
answering machine. I left a polite detailed message about the problem.
On the machine, I told him it appears that the gutter needs a 2.5" or 3"
spacer off the fascia to be in a workable position. No answer 2 days
later.

I call him again. This time I reach him on the phone and politely
explain the problem .... again. He tells me he's "out of town" and won't
be back to the end of the week. He says he'll get back with me at the
beginning of the next week. He says a spacer is not needed. He says
he'll install some gizmo on top of the gutter. WTF? I don't see that
working. Perhaps some of you real pros know what this gent is talking
about?

I'm so far back in the sticks that getting another pro out here is
problematic. Skilled labor can be a crapshoot here. How far do I let
this gent go before bringing in another company from the nearest city and
taking the original guy to small claims court?




Take some photos of the installation and take some video of the
problem during a rain. .. not just to show us - but to get some
satisfaction in small claims court. Take photos and talk to other
homeowners about their steel roofing + gutters.
A friend of mine had a bunch of problems with a home renovation -
by a supposedly reputable company - he didn't get any follow-up
work done until he spoke to the company owner and said that he
was set to tell his story - all over social media -


Be careful how you do this. If you say, fix my roof or I'll tell my
story all over social media, it might be construed as blackmail, by
you.

You need aiui to say you're making a list, or something like that, of
social media but not make what you do contingent on his repairing it.
If he does repair it, you can always change your mind.

This is, iirc, different from threatening to sue, which is not
blackmail.


the company owner decided, finally, to treat it as a priority -
because his name was on all the trucks and advertising ..
John T.


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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster


A friend of mine had a bunch of problems with a home renovation -
by a supposedly reputable company - he didn't get any follow-up
work done until he spoke to the company owner and said that he
was set to tell his story - all over social media -
the company owner decided, finally, to treat it as a priority -
because his name was on all the trucks and advertising ..
John T.




Be careful how you do this. If you say, fix my roof or I'll tell my
story all over social media, it might be construed as blackmail, by
you.
You need aiui to say you're making a list, or something like that, of
social media but not make what you do contingent on his repairing it.
If he does repair it, you can always change your mind.
This is, iirc, different from threatening to sue, which is not
blackmail.


You are a silly person with silly ideas.

blackmail = fix my roof or I'll publish the photos of you screwing a
sheep.

not fix my roof or I'll publish photos of the roofing job your
roofing company did.

John T.

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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster



"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:06:58 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:38:40 +0000 (UTC), MarkK
wrote:

Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below. I'm no longer in Kansas -- I'm in crazy town.

I call genius project manager the day after I paid him and got his
answering machine. I left a polite detailed message about the problem.
On the machine, I told him it appears that the gutter needs a 2.5" or 3"
spacer off the fascia to be in a workable position. No answer 2 days
later.

I call him again. This time I reach him on the phone and politely
explain the problem .... again. He tells me he's "out of town" and won't
be back to the end of the week. He says he'll get back with me at the
beginning of the next week. He says a spacer is not needed. He says
he'll install some gizmo on top of the gutter. WTF? I don't see that
working. Perhaps some of you real pros know what this gent is talking
about?

I'm so far back in the sticks that getting another pro out here is
problematic. Skilled labor can be a crapshoot here. How far do I let
this gent go before bringing in another company from the nearest city and
taking the original guy to small claims court?




Take some photos of the installation and take some video of the
problem during a rain. .. not just to show us - but to get some
satisfaction in small claims court. Take photos and talk to other
homeowners about their steel roofing + gutters.
A friend of mine had a bunch of problems with a home renovation -
by a supposedly reputable company - he didn't get any follow-up
work done until he spoke to the company owner and said that he
was set to tell his story - all over social media -


Be careful how you do this. If you say, fix my roof or I'll tell my story
all over social media, it might be construed as blackmail, by you.


That's not blackmail, just demanding that you get what you paid for.

You need aiui to say you're making a list, or something like that,
of social media but not make what you do contingent on his
repairing it. If he does repair it, you can always change your mind.

This is, iirc, different from threatening to sue, which is not blackmail.


Neither is saying you will post your story on social
media if he doesn't do the job correctly.

the company owner decided, finally, to treat it as a priority -
because his name was on all the trucks and advertising ..



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Default Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 04:16:27 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

That's not


Nobody talked to you, senile Australian asshole!

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:38:40 +0000, MarkK wrote:

Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below. I'm no longer in Kansas -- I'm in crazy town.



The "contractor" is blowing me off, refusing to answering my calls.

Today, I contacted the county building department. They said this
individual did not pull a permit (contrary to the written contract) and
he was not a licensed contractor (I f**ked up not checking out this
individual after he did a superb job on a neighbor's house). They gave
me the number of the state "authorities". I have less than zero respect
for this state "government" -- almost as worthless as the county
"authorities".

The original contract shows this genius was claiming to work under a
certified roofing contractor (or so he claimed) so I will contract them
to find if they will provide cover for this scumbag. Stay tuned -- more
news at 11.
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On 7/23/2019 5:33 AM, slate_leeper wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:38:40 +0000 (UTC), MarkK
wrote:

Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below.


I had the same problem with the new roof and gutters the contractor
installed. I called a gutter company to check it out. They found the
roof too long, and just trimmed it back.

Note, they also found things such as missing gutter nails and improper
gutter slope. The roof may not be the entire problem.


I have an old house with small cedar gutters. I hav had problems with
cleaning gutters after my previous house was re-roofed because they
ovlapped the roofing so war over the gutters.

For this house, I wrote into the contract that the gutters had to be
open enough to allow for easy cleaning. After they put down the first
row of roofing over the gutters with less than 1" of gap to reach into
for cleaning, I brought that to their attention. They told me that's the
way they have to do it.

After I pointed out the contract item, they had to have special gutter
drip edges made to do the job properly.

So - in the future, get it in the contract.
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On 7/29/2019 8:46 PM, MarkK wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:38:40 +0000, MarkK wrote:

Hi All,

I'm out in the sticks in NW Florida. Had a new metal roof with new
seamless gutters installed on a two story.

The roof looked decent enough but the gutter was just wrong looking. I
brought it up to the "project manager" and he said it would be "fine".
Problem is -- the metal roof overhangs the gutter about 75% or more of
the width of the gutter. Water comes off the roof and 90+ percent of it
goes right over the edge of the gutter and lands on the walkway and
stairs below. I'm no longer in Kansas -- I'm in crazy town.



The "contractor" is blowing me off, refusing to answering my calls.

Today, I contacted the county building department. They said this
individual did not pull a permit (contrary to the written contract) and
he was not a licensed contractor (I f**ked up not checking out this
individual after he did a superb job on a neighbor's house). They gave
me the number of the state "authorities". I have less than zero respect
for this state "government" -- almost as worthless as the county
"authorities".

The original contract shows this genius was claiming to work under a
certified roofing contractor (or so he claimed) so I will contract them
to find if they will provide cover for this scumbag. Stay tuned -- more
news at 11.


Reading this, an additional caution I would like to add is that if a
contractor is unlicensed and does not get permits it is also unlikely
that he has workmen's compensation insurance. Most homeowners insurance
will not apply to workers injured on their property. My son, an
insurance company lawyer, told me a story of an uninsured contractor
falling off a roof and the homeowner was held responsible.


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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On 7/30/19 8:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Reading this, an additional caution I would like to add is that if a contractor is unlicensed and does not get permits it is also unlikely that
he has workmen's compensation insurance.Â* Most homeowners insurance will not apply to workers injured on their property.Â* My son, an insurance
company lawyer, told me a story of an uninsured contractor falling off a roof and the homeowner was held responsible.



It's 100% the contractor's fault for not obtaining workman's comp insurance. The homeowner shouldn't be held liable.

This must be another one of those laws crafted by the democrats to protect their lying cheating constituents.
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

Frank "frank writes:
On 7/30/2019 8:58 AM, devnull wrote:
On 7/30/19 8:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Reading this, an additional caution I would like to add is that if a
contractor is unlicensed and does not get permits it is also unlikely
that he has workmen's compensation insurance.Â* Most homeowners
insurance will not apply to workers injured on their property.Â* My
son, an insurance company lawyer, told me a story of an uninsured
contractor falling off a roof and the homeowner was held responsible.



It's 100% the contractor's fault for not obtaining workman's comp
insurance.Â* The homeowner shouldn't be held liable.

This must be another one of those laws crafted by the democrats to
protect their lying cheating constituents.


True that homeowner should not be liable but it's happened.


Then you should be able to provide a citation ("told me a story"
is not a citation, even it purportedly was said by a lawyer).

Certainly all the facts are not in evidence (perhaps the homeowner
did something stupid which caused the fall).
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 10:52:09 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 7/30/2019 8:58 AM, devnull wrote:
On 7/30/19 8:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Reading this, an additional caution I would like to add is that if a
contractor is unlicensed and does not get permits it is also unlikely
that he has workmen's compensation insurance.Â* Most homeowners
insurance will not apply to workers injured on their property.Â* My
son, an insurance company lawyer, told me a story of an uninsured
contractor falling off a roof and the homeowner was held responsible.


It's 100% the contractor's fault for not obtaining workman's comp
insurance.Â* The homeowner shouldn't be held liable.

This must be another one of those laws crafted by the democrats to
protect their lying cheating constituents.


True that homeowner should not be liable but it's happened.


Then you should be able to provide a citation ("told me a story"
is not a citation, even it purportedly was said by a lawyer).

Certainly all the facts are not in evidence (perhaps the homeowner
did something stupid which caused the fall).


Also, Frank said the contractor fell. I'd suspect a WORKER who fell
would have a much better chance of prevailing against the homeowner
than the contractor himself. And if it's a worker, looks like it works
like you say, that to be liable you have to do something to make yourself
liable, other than just hiring a contractor. Still, the larger problem
is someone like an injured worker can hire an attorney and sue EVERYONE.
And then what? You'd be on the hook to defend yourself. I guess they can
still sue you anyway, even if the contractor has insurance, but for sure
it's way better if the contractor has the insurance.
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Default new metal roof with new gutters - disaster

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 11:34:15 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 10:52:09 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 7/30/2019 8:58 AM, devnull wrote:
On 7/30/19 8:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Reading this, an additional caution I would like to add is that if a
contractor is unlicensed and does not get permits it is also unlikely
that he has workmen's compensation insurance.Â* Most homeowners
insurance will not apply to workers injured on their property.Â* My
son, an insurance company lawyer, told me a story of an uninsured
contractor falling off a roof and the homeowner was held responsible.


It's 100% the contractor's fault for not obtaining workman's comp
insurance.Â* The homeowner shouldn't be held liable.

This must be another one of those laws crafted by the democrats to
protect their lying cheating constituents.

True that homeowner should not be liable but it's happened.


Then you should be able to provide a citation ("told me a story"
is not a citation, even it purportedly was said by a lawyer).

Certainly all the facts are not in evidence (perhaps the homeowner
did something stupid which caused the fall).


Also, Frank said the contractor fell. I'd suspect a WORKER who fell
would have a much better chance of prevailing against the homeowner
than the contractor himself. And if it's a worker, looks like it works
like you say, that to be liable you have to do something to make yourself
liable, other than just hiring a contractor. Still, the larger problem
is someone like an injured worker can hire an attorney and sue EVERYONE.
And then what? You'd be on the hook to defend yourself. I guess they can
still sue you anyway, even if the contractor has insurance, but for sure
it's way better if the contractor has the insurance.


Forgot to add this link:

https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo...ontractor.html


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