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[email protected] July 14th 19 10:14 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
I have a dead GFCI outlet. Called electrician. Assessment lose connection or broken wire somewhere between breaker box and GFCI outlet. Since this outlet is in kitchen and wires are running behind tile wall I dont want to damage the tiling. What should be the step by step process to find where the fault is in path from Breaker to GFCI?

Mike_Duffy[_2_] July 14th 19 03:32 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Assessment lose connection or broken wire
[...] What should be the step by step process
to find where the fault is in path from Breaker


Well, start with the most likely, i.e. connections at GFCI. You don't need
to break any tiles for this. Remove the old GFCI. Disconnect all 3 wires
from the other end at the breaker / fuse box. Use an ohm-meter on all 3
wires. (Will require an additional test wire from box to kitchen.)

Note: To protect ohm-meter, check for voltage before checking for
continuity. There should be no voltage.

--
http://mduffy.x10host.com/index.htm

trader_4 July 14th 19 04:05 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 5:14:41 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I have a dead GFCI outlet. Called electrician. Assessment lose connection or broken wire somewhere between breaker box and GFCI outlet. Since this outlet is in kitchen and wires are running behind tile wall I dont want to damage the tiling. What should be the step by step process to find where the fault is in path from Breaker to GFCI?


Must not be much of an electrician. Didn't he do the process to find
the bad connection? You have the overhead of the visit, once there
most times they should be able to find it pretty easily, unless something
unusual is going on, like illegal splices that are inaccessible inside a wall.
Plus the electrician should have a sniffer device to help trace the circuit..

Do you know which breaker it's on? If so, start by finding out what else
is on that breaker. Find out if everything else works or not. Closest
thing that still works, I'd take a look inside there for loose connections.
It's basically tracing the route of the circuit from the breaker to the GFCI
to find where it's disconnected.

Is it just that GFCI, nothing after it that also does not work? What is the
purpose of the GFCI, where is it? That may help figure out what circuit it's
on if you don't know it.





[email protected] July 14th 19 06:00 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I have a dead GFCI outlet. Called electrician. Assessment lose connection or broken wire somewhere between breaker box and GFCI outlet. Since this outlet is in kitchen and wires are running behind tile wall I dont want to damage the tiling. What should be the step by step process to find where the fault is in path from Breaker to

GFCI?

How old is the house? Before the 70s they would sometimes have other
loads on the kitchen circuits. Trader is right, look for any other
load on that circuit that either works with the breaker on, not off or
that is dead. Look in that box for a bad connection. Other than that
it might be easier to fish in a new wire.

Clare Snyder July 14th 19 07:01 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a dead GFCI outlet. Called electrician. Assessment lose connection or broken wire somewhere between breaker box and GFCI outlet. Since this outlet is in kitchen and wires are running behind tile wall I don’t want to damage the tiling. What should be the step by step process to find where the fault is in path from Breaker to

GFCI?

How old is the house? Before the 70s they would sometimes have other
loads on the kitchen circuits. Trader is right, look for any other
load on that circuit that either works with the breaker on, not off or
that is dead. Look in that box for a bad connection. Other than that
it might be easier to fish in a new wire.

Wires VERY seldom fail. Isolate what outlets are on the breaker in
question. Check connections in all boxes on the circuit. Connect a
lamp socket to the wires in place of the GFCI to tell when the circuit
is live. If you need to check actual conductos, detach them from the
breaker and connect all 3 conductoes together at the service box, then
check continuity at the box from wire to wire. If you have
connectivity neutral to ground and not neutral to live or white to
live you KNOW the problem is on the Live wire. Pretty easy to pin it
down.

[email protected] July 14th 19 07:46 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 8:05:58 AM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:

Thanks a lot for advice.

Must not be much of an electrician. Didn't he do the process to find
the bad connection? You have the overhead of the visit, once there
most times they should be able to find it pretty easily, unless something
unusual is going on, like illegal splices that are inaccessible inside a wall.
Plus the electrician should have a sniffer device to help trace the circuit.



Yeah that was pretty much useless. Charged $150 for 5 minutes to tell me what I already knew. Anything further he wanted to open up the wall.

Do you know which breaker it's on? If so, start by finding out what else
is on that breaker. Find out if everything else works or not. Closest
thing that still works, I'd take a look inside there for loose connections.
It's basically tracing the route of the circuit from the breaker to the GFCI
to find where it's disconnected.
Is it just that GFCI, nothing after it that also does not work? What is the
purpose of the GFCI, where is it? That may help figure out what circuit it's
on if you don't know it.


This is one of the two GFCIs in the kitchen. The other one is working fine. GFCI that is dead is on a separate breaker which I have isolated. GFCI is protecting four other outlets. And they are all dead. I opened up all 4 outlets and pretty much checked each of them for loose wire/ connections etc and they all seem to be fine.


[email protected] July 14th 19 08:41 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 14:01:49 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a dead GFCI outlet. Called electrician. Assessment lose connection or broken wire somewhere between breaker box and GFCI outlet. Since this outlet is in kitchen and wires are running behind tile wall I dont want to damage the tiling. What should be the step by step process to find where the fault is in path from Breaker

to
GFCI?

How old is the house? Before the 70s they would sometimes have other
loads on the kitchen circuits. Trader is right, look for any other
load on that circuit that either works with the breaker on, not off or
that is dead. Look in that box for a bad connection. Other than that
it might be easier to fish in a new wire.


Wires VERY seldom fail.


Except for the infamous "6 penny fade" (more often a drywall screw
these days).
The actual failure might show up years later when that nicked wire
finally blows open. If it is the neutral, nobody would have even
noticed the "tingle" and being on the line side of the GFCI you get no
help there.

trader_4 July 15th 19 01:26 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 2:46:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 8:05:58 AM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:

Thanks a lot for advice.

Must not be much of an electrician. Didn't he do the process to find
the bad connection? You have the overhead of the visit, once there
most times they should be able to find it pretty easily, unless something
unusual is going on, like illegal splices that are inaccessible inside a wall.
Plus the electrician should have a sniffer device to help trace the circuit.



Yeah that was pretty much useless. Charged $150 for 5 minutes to tell me what I already knew. Anything further he wanted to open up the wall.

Do you know which breaker it's on? If so, start by finding out what else
is on that breaker. Find out if everything else works or not. Closest
thing that still works, I'd take a look inside there for loose connections.
It's basically tracing the route of the circuit from the breaker to the GFCI
to find where it's disconnected.
Is it just that GFCI, nothing after it that also does not work? What is the
purpose of the GFCI, where is it? That may help figure out what circuit it's
on if you don't know it.


This is one of the two GFCIs in the kitchen. The other one is working fine. GFCI that is dead is on a separate breaker which I have isolated. GFCI is protecting four other outlets. And they are all dead. I opened up all 4 outlets and pretty much checked each of them for loose wire/ connections etc and they all seem to be fine.


Any idea where the incoming cable routes from? If it's the first receptacle
in a kitchen and it protects others, then good chance the incoming run is
from the breaker without another receptacle or switch box in between.
Can you find the cable in a basement, going to the kitchen? They have
detectors that will tell you if a cable is energized to help you trace it.
Or start tracing the cable from the breaker, if that's possible. Any
renovations done, where it would be likely that a cable could have been
cut, then spliced? If someone did that inside a wall where it's not
supposed to be, it could be hidden. Agree with Gfre, if you can't find
the problem, the other solution is to run a new circuit to the GFCI
receptacle. Just be sure you've checked all other receptacles, lights,
etc anywhere nearby to make sure they aren't on the existing circuit,
that all that is there are what's downstream of the GFCI with no power.
If there are none, then a new run from the panel, or from where you can
find the existing circuit, eg in the basement near the kitchen, to the
GFCI could be the way to go.

trader_4 July 15th 19 01:36 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 3:41:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 14:01:49 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a dead GFCI outlet. Called electrician. Assessment lose connection or broken wire somewhere between breaker box and GFCI outlet. Since this outlet is in kitchen and wires are running behind tile wall I dont want to damage the tiling. What should be the step by step process to find where the fault is in path from Breaker

to
GFCI?

How old is the house? Before the 70s they would sometimes have other
loads on the kitchen circuits. Trader is right, look for any other
load on that circuit that either works with the breaker on, not off or
that is dead. Look in that box for a bad connection. Other than that
it might be easier to fish in a new wire.


Wires VERY seldom fail.


Except for the infamous "6 penny fade" (more often a drywall screw
these days).
The actual failure might show up years later when that nicked wire
finally blows open. If it is the neutral, nobody would have even
noticed the "tingle" and being on the line side of the GFCI you get no
help there.


Yes, we don't even know if it's the hot or the neutral that's open.
I hope the OP has the skills to do the testing. How easy this is to
fix depends on how accessible the wiring is. If a box with a loose
connection can't be found, then like you say, easiest is probably to
run a new piece of cable to the GFCI and either cut the existing cable
off near the kitchen if that's possible, or run a new cable all the
way from the breaker, if that's easier.




[email protected] July 15th 19 02:00 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 17:36:33 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 3:41:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 14:01:49 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a dead GFCI outlet. Called electrician. Assessment lose connection or broken wire somewhere between breaker box and GFCI outlet. Since this outlet is in kitchen and wires are running behind tile wall I dont want to damage the tiling. What should be the step by step process to find where the fault is in path from

Breaker
to
GFCI?

How old is the house? Before the 70s they would sometimes have other
loads on the kitchen circuits. Trader is right, look for any other
load on that circuit that either works with the breaker on, not off or
that is dead. Look in that box for a bad connection. Other than that
it might be easier to fish in a new wire.


Wires VERY seldom fail.


Except for the infamous "6 penny fade" (more often a drywall screw
these days).
The actual failure might show up years later when that nicked wire
finally blows open. If it is the neutral, nobody would have even
noticed the "tingle" and being on the line side of the GFCI you get no
help there.


Yes, we don't even know if it's the hot or the neutral that's open.
I hope the OP has the skills to do the testing. How easy this is to
fix depends on how accessible the wiring is. If a box with a loose
connection can't be found, then like you say, easiest is probably to
run a new piece of cable to the GFCI and either cut the existing cable
off near the kitchen if that's possible, or run a new cable all the
way from the breaker, if that's easier.



If this is an older house I still would not give up on another
receptacle or light in that circuit on the line side of the GFCI and
it may be a Harry Homeowner Special in the basement attic or
crawlspace.

Clare Snyder July 15th 19 02:05 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 11:46:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 8:05:58 AM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:

Thanks a lot for advice.

Must not be much of an electrician. Didn't he do the process to find
the bad connection? You have the overhead of the visit, once there
most times they should be able to find it pretty easily, unless something
unusual is going on, like illegal splices that are inaccessible inside a wall.
Plus the electrician should have a sniffer device to help trace the circuit.



Yeah that was pretty much useless. Charged $150 for 5 minutes to tell me what I already knew. Anything further he wanted to open up the wall.

Do you know which breaker it's on? If so, start by finding out what else
is on that breaker. Find out if everything else works or not. Closest
thing that still works, I'd take a look inside there for loose connections.
It's basically tracing the route of the circuit from the breaker to the GFCI
to find where it's disconnected.
Is it just that GFCI, nothing after it that also does not work? What is the
purpose of the GFCI, where is it? That may help figure out what circuit it's
on if you don't know it.


This is one of the two GFCIs in the kitchen. The other one is working fine. GFCI that is dead is on a separate breaker which I have isolated. GFCI is protecting four other outlets. And they are all dead. I opened up all 4 outlets and pretty much checked each of them for loose wire/ connections etc and they all seem to be fine.

The problem will NOT be downstream of the GFI. The problem will be
between the gfi and the panel. Did the horon electrician open the box
and determine FOR SURE that there is no power coming TO the GFI? I
would pull the plate and the outlet and check for power TO the GFI.
I'd almost bet in this case youhave a bad GFI - - - -

trader_4 July 15th 19 02:26 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:00:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 17:36:33 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 3:41:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 14:01:49 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a dead GFCI outlet. Called electrician. Assessment lose connection or broken wire somewhere between breaker box and GFCI outlet. Since this outlet is in kitchen and wires are running behind tile wall I dont want to damage the tiling. What should be the step by step process to find where the fault is in path from

Breaker
to
GFCI?

How old is the house? Before the 70s they would sometimes have other
loads on the kitchen circuits. Trader is right, look for any other
load on that circuit that either works with the breaker on, not off or
that is dead. Look in that box for a bad connection. Other than that
it might be easier to fish in a new wire.

Wires VERY seldom fail.

Except for the infamous "6 penny fade" (more often a drywall screw
these days).
The actual failure might show up years later when that nicked wire
finally blows open. If it is the neutral, nobody would have even
noticed the "tingle" and being on the line side of the GFCI you get no
help there.


Yes, we don't even know if it's the hot or the neutral that's open.
I hope the OP has the skills to do the testing. How easy this is to
fix depends on how accessible the wiring is. If a box with a loose
connection can't be found, then like you say, easiest is probably to
run a new piece of cable to the GFCI and either cut the existing cable
off near the kitchen if that's possible, or run a new cable all the
way from the breaker, if that's easier.



If this is an older house I still would not give up on another
receptacle or light in that circuit on the line side of the GFCI and
it may be a Harry Homeowner Special in the basement attic or
crawlspace.


Agree, which is why I said the OP should be sure all receptacles, lights,
etc that are anywhere near the kitchen all work with the breaker for the
bad circuit both on and off.


[email protected] July 15th 19 04:16 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 18:26:29 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:00:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 17:36:33 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 3:41:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 14:01:49 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a dead GFCI outlet. Called electrician. Assessment lose connection or broken wire somewhere between breaker box and GFCI outlet. Since this outlet is in kitchen and wires are running behind tile wall I dont want to damage the tiling. What should be the step by step process to find where the fault is in path from

Breaker
to
GFCI?

How old is the house? Before the 70s they would sometimes have other
loads on the kitchen circuits. Trader is right, look for any other
load on that circuit that either works with the breaker on, not off or
that is dead. Look in that box for a bad connection. Other than that
it might be easier to fish in a new wire.

Wires VERY seldom fail.

Except for the infamous "6 penny fade" (more often a drywall screw
these days).
The actual failure might show up years later when that nicked wire
finally blows open. If it is the neutral, nobody would have even
noticed the "tingle" and being on the line side of the GFCI you get no
help there.

Yes, we don't even know if it's the hot or the neutral that's open.
I hope the OP has the skills to do the testing. How easy this is to
fix depends on how accessible the wiring is. If a box with a loose
connection can't be found, then like you say, easiest is probably to
run a new piece of cable to the GFCI and either cut the existing cable
off near the kitchen if that's possible, or run a new cable all the
way from the breaker, if that's easier.



If this is an older house I still would not give up on another
receptacle or light in that circuit on the line side of the GFCI and
it may be a Harry Homeowner Special in the basement attic or
crawlspace.


Agree, which is why I said the OP should be sure all receptacles, lights,
etc that are anywhere near the kitchen all work with the breaker for the
bad circuit both on and off.


Bootleg, outlets lighting or receptacle may be in strange places. That
is why I suggested the attic, crawlspace or basement. Look for
something out of the ordinary, a plastic box if the rest of them are
metal or some staples pulled loose to drag up a little extra wire for
a box. When someone is cheating on the 6" "free conductor" thing, it
is easy to make a bad splice.

micky July 15th 19 04:24 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 14 Jul 2019 14:32:04 +0000, Mike_Duffy
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Assessment lose connection or broken wire
[...] What should be the step by step process
to find where the fault is in path from Breaker


Well, start with the most likely, i.e. connections at GFCI. You don't need
to break any tiles for this. Remove the old GFCI. Disconnect all 3 wires
from the other end at the breaker / fuse box. Use an ohm-meter on all 3
wires. (Will require an additional test wire from box to kitchen.)

Note: To protect ohm-meter, check for voltage before checking for
continuity.


V. Good point. Always check for voltage first.

There should be no voltage.


Just one amendment. If the most likely location is teh connection at
the GFCI, then there will be voltage there one the wires.

Also, it's probably not necesary to remove the wires to check each for
voltage, unless the connections are backstabbed and there is no wire
showing, only insulation.


micky July 15th 19 04:28 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 14 Jul 2019 11:46:01 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 8:05:58 AM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:

Thanks a lot for advice.

Must not be much of an electrician. Didn't he do the process to find
the bad connection? You have the overhead of the visit, once there
most times they should be able to find it pretty easily, unless something
unusual is going on, like illegal splices that are inaccessible inside a wall.
Plus the electrician should have a sniffer device to help trace the circuit.



Yeah that was pretty much useless. Charged $150 for 5 minutes to tell me what I already knew. Anything further he wanted to open up the wall.


Wow. Thanks for saving me 150 some time in the future. Wait. Was 150
his service call and he didn't use a sniffer, or he said he did but
didn't tell you anything.

Breakers fail. Outlets sometimes fail. Connections fail. What afaik
is least likely to fail are the wires in bewtween the breaker and the
outlet.


Do you know which breaker it's on? If so, start by finding out what else
is on that breaker. Find out if everything else works or not. Closest
thing that still works, I'd take a look inside there for loose connections.
It's basically tracing the route of the circuit from the breaker to the GFCI
to find where it's disconnected.
Is it just that GFCI, nothing after it that also does not work? What is the
purpose of the GFCI, where is it? That may help figure out what circuit it's
on if you don't know it.


This is one of the two GFCIs in the kitchen. The other one is working fine. GFCI that is dead is on a separate breaker which I have isolated. GFCI is protecting four other outlets. And they are all dead.


So it's the breaker, not the outlets.

I opened up all 4 outlets and pretty much checked each of them for loose wire/ connections etc and they all seem to be fine.



micky July 15th 19 05:37 AM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 14 Jul 2019 23:28:08 -0400, micky
wrote:


This is one of the two GFCIs in the kitchen. The other one is working fine. GFCI that is dead is on a separate breaker which I have isolated. GFCI is protecting four other outlets. And they are all dead.


So it's the breaker, not the outlets.


I didn't read the above line closely, and my conclusion was unwarranted
by the statement above. However there are still lots of tests described
already to narrow down the problem and I doubt it's in the walls.

After 5 minutes, his next step should not have been to open the walls
like he claimed.

I opened up all 4 outlets and pretty much checked each of them for loose wire/ connections etc and they all seem to be fine.



[email protected] July 15th 19 02:29 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:37:10 PM UTC-7, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 14 Jul 2019 23:28:08 -0400, micky


This is one of the two GFCIs in the kitchen. The other one is working fine. GFCI that is dead is on a separate breaker which I have isolated. GFCI is protecting four other outlets. And they are all dead.


So it's the breaker, not the outlets.


I didn't read the above line closely, and my conclusion was unwarranted
by the statement above. However there are still lots of tests described
already to narrow down the problem and I doubt it's in the walls.

After 5 minutes, his next step should not have been to open the walls
like he claimed.

I opened up all 4 outlets and pretty much checked each of them for loose wire/ connections etc and they all seem to be fine.


Thanks all for the valuable suggestions. So far this is what I have done:

1. Called electrician - which verified no issues with breaker box but no power at GFCI. He did not do anything else like what others have suggested in forum. Wish I knew about forum before calling in electrician.

2. Tested all outlets in kitchen and surrounding area with and without breaker off for dead GFCI. All outlets are working except the ones on the dead GFCI.

3. Opened up and visually inspected all outlets protected by dead GFCI for any issues related wiring. They all seem fine.

4. Measured voltage at GFCI line - all pairs of hot / neutral and hot / ground measure 52V. Seems like phantom reading.

We did not have any renovations etc or any electrical work done. House was built in 2011.

My next step is to trace path from breaker box to GFCI and see if anything obvious is on the way.

dpb[_3_] July 15th 19 02:39 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On 7/15/2019 8:29 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July ...


Thanks all for the valuable suggestions. So far this is what I have done:

1. Called electrician - which verified no issues with breaker box but no power at GFCI. He did not do anything else like what others have suggested in forum. Wish I knew about forum before calling in electrician.


Just to be absolutely certain, I'd open the panel and just double-check
at the outlet of that breaker for voltage and connections before I went
any further afield...

Presuming the guy wasn't complete maroon you'll just confirm what he
told you, but just in case...save chasing a non-symptom. I probably
would go to the point of actually putting a load on the outlet of that
breaker with a test lamp besides just the voltage leads on the VOM.


--

trader_4 July 15th 19 03:02 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 12:37:10 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 14 Jul 2019 23:28:08 -0400, micky
wrote:


This is one of the two GFCIs in the kitchen. The other one is working fine. GFCI that is dead is on a separate breaker which I have isolated. GFCI is protecting four other outlets. And they are all dead.


So it's the breaker, not the outlets.


I didn't read the above line closely, and my conclusion was unwarranted
by the statement above. However there are still lots of tests described
already to narrow down the problem and I doubt it's in the walls.

After 5 minutes, his next step should not have been to open the walls
like he claimed.


IDK about 5 mins, but it's possible he could arrive at the conclusion
that it's likely inside
the wall quickly. For example, if he used a non-contact voltage tester
to determine that there is voltage at the cable in a basement, right
where it goes up into the walls where the kitchen GFCI is and there
are no other boxes around that it could go to.

But even then, it's likely easier to just cut the cable there and run
a new segment to the GFCI instead of opening walls.




trader_4 July 15th 19 03:08 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 9:29:39 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:37:10 PM UTC-7, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 14 Jul 2019 23:28:08 -0400, micky


This is one of the two GFCIs in the kitchen. The other one is working fine. GFCI that is dead is on a separate breaker which I have isolated. GFCI is protecting four other outlets. And they are all dead.

So it's the breaker, not the outlets.


I didn't read the above line closely, and my conclusion was unwarranted
by the statement above. However there are still lots of tests described
already to narrow down the problem and I doubt it's in the walls.

After 5 minutes, his next step should not have been to open the walls
like he claimed.

I opened up all 4 outlets and pretty much checked each of them for loose wire/ connections etc and they all seem to be fine.


Thanks all for the valuable suggestions. So far this is what I have done:

1. Called electrician - which verified no issues with breaker box but no power at GFCI. He did not do anything else like what others have suggested in forum. Wish I knew about forum before calling in electrician.

2. Tested all outlets in kitchen and surrounding area with and without breaker off for dead GFCI. All outlets are working except the ones on the dead GFCI.

3. Opened up and visually inspected all outlets protected by dead GFCI for any issues related wiring. They all seem fine.

4. Measured voltage at GFCI line - all pairs of hot / neutral and hot / ground measure 52V. Seems like phantom reading.

We did not have any renovations etc or any electrical work done. House was built in 2011.

My next step is to trace path from breaker box to GFCI and see if anything obvious is on the way.


Is there a basement that's unfinished? If so, I'd just start with a non-contact
tester and see if you can find the cable where it goes into the kitchen.
No need to trace it all the way to the panel if it's live there. Same
idea if it feeds from an attic, etc.

Since it's new construction, the possibility of a nail or similar damage
being done to the cable inside a wall increases greatly. Not likely
there is an illegal splice inside a wall, though I suppose a construction
guy could have screwed it and patched it illegally.




Scott Lurndal July 15th 19 03:32 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
dpb writes:
On 7/15/2019 8:29 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July ...


Thanks all for the valuable suggestions. So far this is what I have done:

1. Called electrician - which verified no issues with breaker box but no power at GFCI. He did not do anything else like what others have suggested in forum. Wish I knew about forum before calling in electrician.


Just to be absolutely certain, I'd open the panel and just double-check
at the outlet of that breaker for voltage and connections before I went
any further afield...


I've seen a similar situation (downstream outlets non-functional) that was
caused by a roofer nailing into romex that wasn't routed through the
center of the stud, but rather was too close to the exterior wall
with no nailing plate on the stud.

(Second floor; the roofer was nailing new flashing for a short bit
of roof over the garage door).

dpb[_3_] July 15th 19 07:22 PM

Dead GFCI outlet
 
On 7/15/2019 9:32 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
dpb writes:
On 7/15/2019 8:29 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July ...


Thanks all for the valuable suggestions. So far this is what I have done:

1. Called electrician - which verified no issues with breaker box but no power at GFCI. He did not do anything else like what others have suggested in forum. Wish I knew about forum before calling in electrician.


Just to be absolutely certain, I'd open the panel and just double-check
at the outlet of that breaker for voltage and connections before I went
any further afield...


I've seen a similar situation (downstream outlets non-functional) that was
caused by a roofer nailing into romex that wasn't routed through the
center of the stud, but rather was too close to the exterior wall
with no nailing plate on the stud.

(Second floor; the roofer was nailing new flashing for a short bit
of roof over the garage door).


Yeah, as gfretwell pointed out, that's the most likely cause if there is
a break between the panel and the first box (or between boxes altho it
appears this is first if OP is correct).

--





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