On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:52:31 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 183 lines of the two prize idiots' usual absolutely idiotic
drivel unread again

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 15:22:59 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


You're just a freak.

You said that already several times, but you STILL keep sucking him off,
miserable and lonely as you are, you senile freak!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On 12/19/18 11:31 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
No such thing as "2 phase" -


trump-hater_4 is sleeping right now but prepare to be schooled when he wakes up

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 09:36:02 -0000, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

"William Gothberg" "William writes:
Agreed. All I can detect (with my digital camera) is that
one brand of LED light I have flickers about 5 times less
(not sure if it's smother or faster) than the others.

Try a longer exposure and move the light rapidly relative to the
camera.

Good idea.

I just tried it with the best lamps I have, which show a slight variation in brightness at exactly 100Hz, which must be seeping through from the mains. However the LEDs never go off, they just change brightness by 8%.

With the worst lamp, same 100Hz, but they actually go right on and off, with a duty cycle of 0.6.

Am I right in thinking these aren't SMPS at all?

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:57:01 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:35:05 UTC, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights in films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the output of the power supply?

It's easy but that isn't the point. The most efficient way of driving to make maximium power into the LED means yuo have to pulse the LED's. Using a capcitor to smooth out the DC is yet another mode of inefficincy as it would get warm due to current flow. Indictors in series might be better but then you run the risk of 'radio' interference.

Being inefficient would presumably make it impossible to get enough brightness out of LEDs that fit into the lamp holder. The LEDs would get too hot trying to give out enough brightness for a car headlight.

However cars vary a lot, some are easy to detect flickering, some difficult, and some impossible (with the naked eye). Perhaps they just use a higher frequency?

Taillights are pretty bad on a lot of cars, as they dim the brakelights by deliberately flickering them.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:34:08 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:34:57 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 18:03:19 -0000, Clark W. Griswold wrote:

On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in
time, I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you
have several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they
all flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them all
being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried taking
photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a second,
which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I suspect
the flicker is above 2000Hz.

I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum.

That was 40 years ago. Maybe something like that would work today.

The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.

Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope?

Haven't got one unfortunately.

Since this landed in alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?

Single. I'm in the UK.
so 50 Htz - you can almost see an incandescent flicker at that
frequency (at 25 you could)

I was assuming it was higher frequency than that, from the SMPS. But I'm thinking they don't have one - see my other reply where I used the camera on a long exposure.

(also rules out the previously mentioned "engineer friend")

Who?

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:19:58 -0000, gregz wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:34:57 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 18:03:19 -0000, Clark W. Griswold wrote:

On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in
time, I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you
have several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they
all flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them all
being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried taking
photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a second,
which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I suspect
the flicker is above 2000Hz.

I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum.

That was 40 years ago. Maybe something like that would work today.

The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from
a neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.

Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope?

Haven't got one unfortunately.

Since this landed in alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have
single-phase or two-phase?

Single. I'm in the UK.
so 50 Htz - you can almost see an incandescent flicker at that
frequency (at 25 you could)

(also rules out the previously mentioned "engineer friend")

Lights flicker at twice the frequency, once for positive cycle, and once
for negative cycle. LEDs only once unles using a bridge rectifier, or
steady on using DC. Even though blinking they look normal straight on, my
brain says something is wrong

Some brains (or eyes) seem to be faster than others. I can easily (and annoyingly) see flicker on CRT monitors below 90Hz, others don't even see the 50 or 60Hz ones. I can see flicker on 80% of car LED lights, others don't see any. Designers really ought to account for those of us with better eyesight.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 07:09:59 -0000, Daniel60 wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote on 20/12/2018 3:21 AM:
On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under
the LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.
... and, in real life, the Mag wheels of some cars seem to be spinning
backwards, dependant on the speed at which the car is travelling!!

In real life? I assume you mean under streetlighting. That effect can't occur with a steady lightsource such as the sun.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
wrote:

On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in
time, I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you
have several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they
all flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them all
being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried taking
photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a second,
which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I suspect
the flicker is above 2000Hz.

I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum.

That was 40 years ago. Maybe something like that would work today.

The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.

Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope?

Since this landed in alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
No such thing as "2 phase" -

Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA - centre tapped 240V. Which could conceivably mean I could have some lights on each circuit, and if they were fed by half wave rectification, flickering at 50Hz, they could be out of time with each other and make the whole room flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's gaps. Mind you the same can happen by just putting the bulb in the other way (in the UK bayonet cap fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the other way at random with bulbs).

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 09:36:02 -0000, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

"William Gothberg" "William writes:
Agreed. All I can detect (with my digital camera) is that
one brand of LED light I have flickers about 5 times less
(not sure if it's smother or faster) than the others.

Try a longer exposure and move the light rapidly relative to the
camera.

I wonder, if I fed the lamps with mains voltage DC, simply a bridge rectifier and a huge capacitor, they'd reduce their flicker. The cheap **** LED lamp I have that actually flashes at 100Hz would most likely get much brighter and burn out, so I'd have to adjust that, but the others which only flicker 8% would just get 4% brighter.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:19:55 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 20 December 2018 13:00:02 UTC, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 09:36:02 -0000, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

"William Gothberg" "William writes:
Agreed. All I can detect (with my digital camera) is that
one brand of LED light I have flickers about 5 times less
(not sure if it's smother or faster) than the others.

Try a longer exposure and move the light rapidly relative to the
camera.

I wonder, if I fed the lamps with mains voltage DC, simply a bridge rectifier and a huge capacitor,

No they'd probbaly blow up, don;t forget a bridge recifir would produce a voltage of at leat 330V and the power dissapated by each LED would also increase .

I thought about that, and the cheapest one, which seems to be just a bridge rectifier straight to the LEDs, would make them 65% brighter. But the others should only get 4% brighter. A switched mode supply fed by DC at the peak voltage of the mains, would still have its bulk capacitor at about the same voltage. It's already doing what I'm suggesting I do externally. They're rated at 85-260V, so I assume they're switched mode.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 05:14:38 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 03:09:44 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 01:31:30 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news Well the answer as in many things these days is it depends.
Some are very simple and do have a kind of pulsing taken from ripple on
the mains. Others seem to not do this, indeed poking a phototransistor
connected to an amplifier shows many different results. the same seems to
go for CFLs as well.
You would need to know what circuit they were using etc to figure out why.
One particular led in a stood across the road has a 1khz whine when point
the device at it but modulated onto a 100 hz buzz.

I often wonder if there is some jiggery pokery going on to drive leds hard
for split seconds to make them brighter.

Yes, there is, particularly with the brighter ones like car headlights etc.

Those designers need to do more research and realise that a lot of the population have eyesight good enough to detect that flicker and should therefore increase the frequency of the flicker, or they're causing distractions and a danger on the roads.

PLONK

For complaining things should be designed better? Er.....

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:27:41 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:39:50 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:34:11 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:21:43 UTC, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

You can also observe such things using a smartphone that has a high FPS rate for recodring movie.
I can see the labs lights flicker when I film at 240FPS standard 60 and everything seems fine.

Everybody seems to constantly cut corners. Lights should just be on, no flicker at all. ****ing annoying if you have decent eyesight, I can see the flicker from almost everyone's LED tail lights.


This is sounding more and more like our "engineer friend" who needs
to do his own tire repairs and alignments and clutch repairs.

Don't know who you're referring to, but what's wrong with striving for perfection?

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:24:20 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:08:22 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:53:42 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"William Gothberg" "William wrote in message
news On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the output of
the power supply?

No point when the only thing that has a problem is videos.

You don't even see a problem with dashcams.

You should. Surely they operate in a similar way to movie cameras?


Different frame rates.

But unless they're identical to the LED flicker rate, you'd still see the effect.

On 12/19/18 10:45 AM, Snicker wrote:

[snip]

Everybody seems to constantly cut corners. Lights should just be on, no flicker at all. ****ing annoying if you have decent eyesight, I can see the flicker from almost everyone's LED tail lights.

Then stop looking at them.

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/...ive_Sunglasses

--
5 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

"My other computer is a HOLMES IV ("High-Optional, Logical,
Multi-Evaluating Supervisor, Mark IV")"

On 12/19/18 12:03 PM, Clark W. Griswold wrote:

[snip]

The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from
a neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.

Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope?

And you'd have to isolate the lights from each other.

Since this landed in alt.home.repair, I gotta ask.* Do you have
single-phase or two-phase?

Normally, neighboring lights would be powered from the same phase.

--
5 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The Roman Catholic church, convinced that it is the only true church,
must demand the right to freedom for herself alone and the end of
freedom for all others." [Jesuit publication]

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:03:21 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:49:47 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:28:04 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"William Gothberg" "William wrote in message
news On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:51:35 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

William Gothberg "William wrote

Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains?

No.

Specifically LED power supplies in commercially available domestic
lamps.

None of mine flicker at all.

By in time, I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e.
if
you have several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will
they
all flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them all
being random?

None of mine flicker at all.

And is there any way I can test this?

Yes, Get or make a strobe disk or use
one of the original LP disks that has
a strobe disk on it and see what it looks
like with the lights illuminating it. You'll
get it appearing to freeze when rotating
if the light level is varying in synch with
the mains frequency.

I tried taking photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as
1/2000th
of a second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each
time,
I suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.

Or they don't flicker at all. No reason why a proper
switched mode power supply needs to have any
AC component at all on its output. The cruder
ones may well do.

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I use
my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the LED
lighting.

But it's nothing like as low as 50Hz. What I want to know is if the
higher frequency they're flickering at is anchored with the rise of the AC
wave.

No its not.

I.e. will all the LED lights in the room flicker at precisely the same
time, or will they be out of synch (due to tolerances in the circuitry of
each PSU)

Due to it not being synched with the mains, actually.

I meant if the PSUs were absolutely identical, and all the lights were switched on at the same time (with one lightswitch), they should remain in synch forever. But since there are tolerances in all the components in the PSUs, they won't stay in time.


Forget the component tolerances. Two mechanical light switches can't be
synced to turn on the power at exactly the same time, anywhere close
enough to sync them up to begin with. You would need electronic
switches driven by a common signal. And even then, even with components
of sufficient tolerance, which is impossible, I'm not sure it would work.
First thing that comes to mind is the freq source, which I'm guessing
is a crystal. You could have crystals with theoretically identical
frequencies, but I'm not sure that means they will start oscillating
at exactly the same instant so there is no phase difference.

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:29:53 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:57:01 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:35:05 UTC, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights in films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the output of the power supply?

It's easy but that isn't the point. The most efficient way of driving to make maximium power into the LED means yuo have to pulse the LED's. Using a capcitor to smooth out the DC is yet another mode of inefficincy as it would get warm due to current flow. Indictors in series might be better but then you run the risk of 'radio' interference.

Being inefficient would presumably make it impossible to get enough brightness out of LEDs that fit into the lamp holder. The LEDs would get too hot trying to give out enough brightness for a car headlight.

However cars vary a lot, some are easy to detect flickering, some difficult, and some impossible (with the naked eye). Perhaps they just use a higher frequency?

Taillights are pretty bad on a lot of cars, as they dim the brakelights by deliberately flickering them.

Either you have eyes that are way more sensitive to this or you're in a
country that uses different car lights than here in the USA. There
are a lot of cars with LED lighting, headlights and rear lights, and
I've never noticed this flickering, nor have I ever heard it mentioned
before this thread. I haven't noticed flickering from any LED lights
I've used either.

There is that big ASS liberal head, you have not seen
it so it does not exist...

What a ****wad you are.



"trader_4" wrote in message
...
Either you have eyes that are way more sensitive to this or you're in a
country that uses different car lights than here in the USA. There
are a lot of cars with LED lighting, headlights and rear lights, and
I've never noticed this flickering, nor have I ever heard it mentioned
before this thread. I haven't noticed flickering from any LED lights
I've used either.

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 8:45:58 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:27:41 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:39:50 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:34:11 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:21:43 UTC, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

You can also observe such things using a smartphone that has a high FPS rate for recodring movie.
I can see the labs lights flicker when I film at 240FPS standard 60 and everything seems fine.

Everybody seems to constantly cut corners. Lights should just be on, no flicker at all. ****ing annoying if you have decent eyesight, I can see the flicker from almost everyone's LED tail lights.


This is sounding more and more like our "engineer friend" who needs
to do his own tire repairs and alignments and clutch repairs.

Don't know who you're referring to, but what's wrong with striving for perfection?

There's a saying about that, "perfection is the enemy of good".
In this case that translates to it's a waste of time, money and
economically inefficient to fix things that aren't a problem.

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
wrote:

On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in
time, I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you
have several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they
all flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them all
being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried taking
photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a second,
which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I suspect
the flicker is above 2000Hz.

I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum.

That was 40 years ago. Maybe something like that would work today.

The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.

Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope?

Since this landed in alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
No such thing as "2 phase" -

Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA - centre tapped 240V. Which could conceivably mean I could have some lights on each circuit, and if they were fed by half wave rectification, flickering at 50Hz, they could be out of time with each other and make the whole room flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's gaps. Mind you the same can happen by just putting the bulb in the other way (in the UK bayonet cap fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the other way at random with bulbs).

They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit is reaching it's
peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V, 120+120 = 240.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
determined that the following was of great
importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
:

œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare Snyder
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in time,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you have
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they all
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ all being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ taking photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That was 40 years
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope? Since this landed in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ No such thing as "2 phase" -
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA - centre tapped 240V.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Which could conceivably mean I could have some lights on each circuit,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ and if they were fed by half wave rectification, flickering at 50Hz,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ they could be out of time with each other and make the whole room
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's gaps. Mind you the same can
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ happen by just putting the bulb in the other way (in the UK bayonet cap
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the other way at random with
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ bulbs).
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit is reaching
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 120+120 = 240.

they know a lot about this over in alt.checkmate

--
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB6B8jGSdLA

"Thanks to muzzies and their apologist-enablers like puppy whistle, this
seems to be the new norm in the world. It's spreading like a cancer,
and it's time we admit we're at war with pure evil. We need to put an
end to this muzzie plague, or life on Earth is going to become pure hell
everywhere. We need to get these people out of every civilized
country, and there's only one way to do it. IOW, we have to become
like them, with an emphasis on expediency over cruelty." - Checkmate (of alt.checkmate)

"Pussy Willow has just proven that Trump's crackdown on previously
unenforced immigration policies is working. We'll deal with the domestic
terrorists as needed, but we don't need to be letting the muzzie
terrorists get a foothold in our country too. One need only look at what
they're doing in Europe right now to know we're doing the right thing by
keeping them out, which is our right and our duty. - Checkmate (#1 pussy willow fan)

-

"You just made puppy whistle's sig line longer." - Janithor

-

"If I have a complaint about the (Southern Poverty) Law Center's description (of the alt-right movement), it is the phrase "heavy use of social media," which implies the alt-right is a real-world movement which uses a lot of social media. This is backwards: it is an online movement which occasionally appears in the real world. Where it gets punched." - Jason Rhode

-

"I think we should destroy every last ****ing mosque in America." - "Checkmate, DoW #1" proves for us that white males are violent in Message-ID:

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Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
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Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD ****heads, March 2016

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 16:34:35 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
wrote:

On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in
time, I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you
have several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they
all flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them all
being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried taking
photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a second,
which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I suspect
the flicker is above 2000Hz.

I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum.

That was 40 years ago. Maybe something like that would work today.

The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.

Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope?

Since this landed in alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
No such thing as "2 phase" -

Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA - centre tapped 240V. Which could conceivably mean I could have some lights on each circuit, and if they were fed by half wave rectification, flickering at 50Hz, they could be out of time with each other and make the whole room flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's gaps. Mind you the same can happen by just putting the bulb in the other way (in the UK bayonet cap fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the other way at random with bulbs).

They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit is reaching it's
peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V, 120+120 = 240.

You would if it was a really ****ty PSU with half wave rectification.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 16:28:58 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 8:45:58 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:27:41 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:39:50 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:34:11 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:21:43 UTC, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

You can also observe such things using a smartphone that has a high FPS rate for recodring movie.
I can see the labs lights flicker when I film at 240FPS standard 60 and everything seems fine.

Everybody seems to constantly cut corners. Lights should just be on, no flicker at all. ****ing annoying if you have decent eyesight, I can see the flicker from almost everyone's LED tail lights.


This is sounding more and more like our "engineer friend" who needs
to do his own tire repairs and alignments and clutch repairs.

Don't know who you're referring to, but what's wrong with striving for perfection?

There's a saying about that, "perfection is the enemy of good".
In this case that translates to it's a waste of time, money and
economically inefficient to fix things that aren't a problem.

It depends how far you take it. If I have a flickery light which gives me a headache, I'll alter the power supply to stop it doing so. If I have something which is noisy, I'll try to quieten it with lubrication or changing fans for quieter ones.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 16:25:22 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:29:53 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:57:01 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:35:05 UTC, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights in films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the output of the power supply?

It's easy but that isn't the point. The most efficient way of driving to make maximium power into the LED means yuo have to pulse the LED's. Using a capcitor to smooth out the DC is yet another mode of inefficincy as it would get warm due to current flow. Indictors in series might be better but then you run the risk of 'radio' interference.

Being inefficient would presumably make it impossible to get enough brightness out of LEDs that fit into the lamp holder. The LEDs would get too hot trying to give out enough brightness for a car headlight.

However cars vary a lot, some are easy to detect flickering, some difficult, and some impossible (with the naked eye). Perhaps they just use a higher frequency?

Taillights are pretty bad on a lot of cars, as they dim the brakelights by deliberately flickering them.

Either you have eyes that are way more sensitive to this or you're in a
country that uses different car lights than here in the USA. There
are a lot of cars with LED lighting, headlights and rear lights, and
I've never noticed this flickering, nor have I ever heard it mentioned
before this thread. I haven't noticed flickering from any LED lights
I've used either.

I can see flicker on a 60Hz CRT monitor, but not on a 90Hz one, so that'll give you an idea on how good my eyes are.

Can you see flicker on tailliights if you scan your eyes across the scene?

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:04:50 -0000, Sir Gaygory's Owner's Owner �笛 wrote:


On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
determined that the following was of great
importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare Snyder
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in time,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you have
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they all
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ all being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ taking photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That was 40 years
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope? Since this landed in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ No such thing as "2 phase" -
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA - centre tapped 240V.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Which could conceivably mean I could have some lights on each circuit,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ and if they were fed by half wave rectification, flickering at 50Hz,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ they could be out of time with each other and make the whole room
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's gaps. Mind you the same can
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ happen by just putting the bulb in the other way (in the UK bayonet cap
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the other way at random with
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ bulbs).
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit is reaching
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 120+120 = 240.

they know a lot about this over in alt.checkmate


What the **** are all those stars for?

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
determined that the following was of great
importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
:

œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare Snyder
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in time,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you have
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they all
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ all being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ taking photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That was 40 years
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope? Since this landed in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ No such thing as "2 phase" -
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA - centre tapped 240V.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Which could conceivably mean I could have some lights on each circuit,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ and if they were fed by half wave rectification, flickering at 50Hz,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ they could be out of time with each other and make the whole room
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's gaps. Mind you the same can
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ happen by just putting the bulb in the other way (in the UK bayonet cap
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the other way at random with
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ bulbs).
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit is reaching
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 120+120 = 240.

it's actually not technically that the phases reach their peak values at the same time, as they are 180 degrees out of phase. phase a is reaching its peak at the same time as phase b is at its lowest point. voltage potentials are calculated as the difference in potentials between two conductors.

120 - (-120) = 120 + 120 = 240

--
[THIS POAST HAS PASSED TRIMCHECK® VALIDATION]

THIS SPACE FOR RENT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB6B8jGSdLA

"Thanks to muzzies and their apologist-enablers like puppy whistle, this
seems to be the new norm in the world. It's spreading like a cancer,
and it's time we admit we're at war with pure evil. We need to put an
end to this muzzie plague, or life on Earth is going to become pure hell
everywhere. We need to get these people out of every civilized
country, and there's only one way to do it. IOW, we have to become
like them, with an emphasis on expediency over cruelty." - Checkmate (of alt.checkmate)

"Pussy Willow has just proven that Trump's crackdown on previously
unenforced immigration policies is working. We'll deal with the domestic
terrorists as needed, but we don't need to be letting the muzzie
terrorists get a foothold in our country too. One need only look at what
they're doing in Europe right now to know we're doing the right thing by
keeping them out, which is our right and our duty. - Checkmate (#1 pussy willow fan)

-

"You just made puppy whistle's sig line longer." - Janithor

-

"If I have a complaint about the (Southern Poverty) Law Center's description (of the alt-right movement), it is the phrase "heavy use of social media," which implies the alt-right is a real-world movement which uses a lot of social media. This is backwards: it is an online movement which occasionally appears in the real world. Where it gets punched." - Jason Rhode

-

"I think we should destroy every last ****ing mosque in America." - "Checkmate, DoW #1" proves for us that white males are violent in Message-ID:

-

Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD ****heads, March 2016

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:03:06 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:49:47 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:28:04 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"William Gothberg" "William wrote in message
news On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:51:35 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

William Gothberg "William wrote

Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains?

No.

Specifically LED power supplies in commercially available domestic
lamps.

None of mine flicker at all.

By in time, I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e.
if
you have several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will
they
all flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them all
being random?

None of mine flicker at all.

And is there any way I can test this?

Yes, Get or make a strobe disk or use
one of the original LP disks that has
a strobe disk on it and see what it looks
like with the lights illuminating it. You'll
get it appearing to freeze when rotating
if the light level is varying in synch with
the mains frequency.

I tried taking photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as
1/2000th
of a second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each
time,
I suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.

Or they don't flicker at all. No reason why a proper
switched mode power supply needs to have any
AC component at all on its output. The cruder
ones may well do.

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I use
my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the LED
lighting.

But it's nothing like as low as 50Hz. What I want to know is if the
higher frequency they're flickering at is anchored with the rise of the AC
wave.

No its not.

I.e. will all the LED lights in the room flicker at precisely the same
time, or will they be out of synch (due to tolerances in the circuitry of
each PSU)

Due to it not being synched with the mains, actually.

I meant if the PSUs were absolutely identical, and all the lights were switched on at the same time (with one lightswitch), they should remain in synch forever. But since there are tolerances in all the components in the PSUs, they won't stay in time.

and fudge the brightness together.

Its not a fudge, it's the lack of synch.

I didn't mean fudge, I meant smudge.

And you should be able to see that by watching
the chuck as you move the drill between lights.
The rate and direction of rotation should change.

Only if the frequency is different, which I doubt as they are all the same model. What I need is a way of detecting if they're flashing together.

Why??? If the frequency is IDENTICAL (unlikely with production
"tolerances" of consumer grade SMPS wall warts) the chance of them
being EXACTLY in phase is remote at best as the "clock" trigger is
generally not based on the mains frequency. Even if they STARTED
exactly in phase, the frequency drift of the SMPS clock would take
them out of synch pretty quickly - and they would go in and out of
phase over time.

That's what I was asking, if the output frequency was synched to the mains frequency.

And why do ypu NEED to know if they are synched? Just curious.

Because if I have several lights in one room, and they are out of sync, the flicker is less of a problem, as one will fill in the gaps of the other.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 16:19:47 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:03:21 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:49:47 -0000, "William Gothberg" "William
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:28:04 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"William Gothberg" "William wrote in message
news On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:51:35 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

William Gothberg "William wrote

Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains?

No.

Specifically LED power supplies in commercially available domestic
lamps.

None of mine flicker at all.

By in time, I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e.
if
you have several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will
they
all flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them all
being random?

None of mine flicker at all.

And is there any way I can test this?

Yes, Get or make a strobe disk or use
one of the original LP disks that has
a strobe disk on it and see what it looks
like with the lights illuminating it. You'll
get it appearing to freeze when rotating
if the light level is varying in synch with
the mains frequency.

I tried taking photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as
1/2000th
of a second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each
time,
I suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.

Or they don't flicker at all. No reason why a proper
switched mode power supply needs to have any
AC component at all on its output. The cruder
ones may well do.

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I use
my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the LED
lighting.

But it's nothing like as low as 50Hz. What I want to know is if the
higher frequency they're flickering at is anchored with the rise of the AC
wave.

No its not.

I.e. will all the LED lights in the room flicker at precisely the same
time, or will they be out of synch (due to tolerances in the circuitry of
each PSU)

Due to it not being synched with the mains, actually.

I meant if the PSUs were absolutely identical, and all the lights were switched on at the same time (with one lightswitch), they should remain in synch forever. But since there are tolerances in all the components in the PSUs, they won't stay in time.


Forget the component tolerances. Two mechanical light switches can't be
synced to turn on the power at exactly the same time, anywhere close
enough to sync them up to begin with.

Er.... I have more than one light running off one switch, many people do. A large room normally has more than one light fixture, or a fixture with several bulbs in it.

You would need electronic
switches driven by a common signal. And even then, even with components
of sufficient tolerance, which is impossible, I'm not sure it would work.
First thing that comes to mind is the freq source, which I'm guessing
is a crystal. You could have crystals with theoretically identical
frequencies, but I'm not sure that means they will start oscillating
at exactly the same instant so there is no phase difference.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:08:00 -0000, LO AND BEHOLD; "William Gothberg"
"William determined that the following was
of great importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us
in :

œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:04:50 -0000, 💩's Owner ðŸ�¶ç¬›
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ determined that the following was of great
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ :
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote: œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Clare Snyder œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
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œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ "Clark W. Griswold" œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
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œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote: œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
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œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Gothberg wrote: œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
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œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
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œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
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œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote: œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Do
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ LED power supplies in commercially
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ available domestic lamps. By in time, œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you have
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ several such lamps each with their
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ own built in supply, will they all œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ will they be random, making the room
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ overall not flicker due to them œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ all
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ taking photos of them, but my camera
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ for
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ sun
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That was 40 years
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ The trouble is I want to compare
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ neighbouring light and see if they're
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ in sync. œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope?
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Since this landed in œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ have single-phase or two-phase? œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ No
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ such thing as "2 phase" - œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Perhaps he meant split phase, like in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ the USA - centre tapped 240V. œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Which could conceivably mean I could
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ have some lights on each circuit, œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ and if they were fed by half wave
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ rectification, flickering at 50Hz, œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ they could be out of time with each
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ other and make the whole room œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker at 100Hz, filling in each
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ other's gaps. Mind you the same can œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ happen by just putting the bulb in the
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ other way (in the UK bayonet cap œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ fittings allow you to connect
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ live/neutral the other way at random with
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ bulbs). œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ They won't be out of time with each
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ other as each circuit is reaching œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 120+120 = 240. they know a lot about
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ this over in alt.checkmate
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ What the **** are all those stars for?

to protest against white supremacy and fascism.

--
[THIS POAST HAS PASSED TRIMCHECK® VALIDATION]

THIS SPACE FOR RENT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB6B8jGSdLA

"Thanks to muzzies and their apologist-enablers like puppy whistle, this
seems to be the new norm in the world. It's spreading like a cancer,
and it's time we admit we're at war with pure evil. We need to put an
end to this muzzie plague, or life on Earth is going to become pure hell
everywhere. We need to get these people out of every civilized
country, and there's only one way to do it. IOW, we have to become
like them, with an emphasis on expediency over cruelty." - Checkmate (of alt.checkmate)

"Pussy Willow has just proven that Trump's crackdown on previously
unenforced immigration policies is working. We'll deal with the domestic
terrorists as needed, but we don't need to be letting the muzzie
terrorists get a foothold in our country too. One need only look at what
they're doing in Europe right now to know we're doing the right thing by
keeping them out, which is our right and our duty. - Checkmate (#1 pussy willow fan)

-

"You just made puppy whistle's sig line longer." - Janithor

-

"If I have a complaint about the (Southern Poverty) Law Center's description (of the alt-right movement), it is the phrase "heavy use of social media," which implies the alt-right is a real-world movement which uses a lot of social media. This is backwards: it is an online movement which occasionally appears in the real world. Where it gets punched." - Jason Rhode

-

"I think we should destroy every last ****ing mosque in America." - "Checkmate, DoW #1" proves for us that white males are violent in Message-ID:

-

Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD ****heads, March 2016

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 12:07:40 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 16:25:22 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:29:53 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:57:01 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:35:05 UTC, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights in films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the output of the power supply?

It's easy but that isn't the point. The most efficient way of driving to make maximium power into the LED means yuo have to pulse the LED's. Using a capcitor to smooth out the DC is yet another mode of inefficincy as it would get warm due to current flow. Indictors in series might be better but then you run the risk of 'radio' interference.

Being inefficient would presumably make it impossible to get enough brightness out of LEDs that fit into the lamp holder. The LEDs would get too hot trying to give out enough brightness for a car headlight.

However cars vary a lot, some are easy to detect flickering, some difficult, and some impossible (with the naked eye). Perhaps they just use a higher frequency?

Taillights are pretty bad on a lot of cars, as they dim the brakelights by deliberately flickering them.

Either you have eyes that are way more sensitive to this or you're in a
country that uses different car lights than here in the USA. There
are a lot of cars with LED lighting, headlights and rear lights, and
I've never noticed this flickering, nor have I ever heard it mentioned
before this thread. I haven't noticed flickering from any LED lights
I've used either.

I can see flicker on a 60Hz CRT monitor, but not on a 90Hz one, so that'll give you an idea on how good my eyes are.

Can you see flicker on tailliights if you scan your eyes across the scene?

Like I said, I haven't noticed it in the driving I've done. Nor have I
heard anyone else mention it. Next time I come across a car that has
LEDs I'll look more closely and see if I can see anything. If just
scanning reveals it, you;d think a lot of people would be noticing it.
Scanning is a part of driving.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:13:52 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 12:07:40 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 16:25:22 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:29:53 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:57:01 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:35:05 UTC, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights in films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the output of the power supply?

It's easy but that isn't the point. The most efficient way of driving to make maximium power into the LED means yuo have to pulse the LED's. Using a capcitor to smooth out the DC is yet another mode of inefficincy as it would get warm due to current flow. Indictors in series might be better but then you run the risk of 'radio' interference.

Being inefficient would presumably make it impossible to get enough brightness out of LEDs that fit into the lamp holder. The LEDs would get too hot trying to give out enough brightness for a car headlight.

However cars vary a lot, some are easy to detect flickering, some difficult, and some impossible (with the naked eye). Perhaps they just use a higher frequency?

Taillights are pretty bad on a lot of cars, as they dim the brakelights by deliberately flickering them.

Either you have eyes that are way more sensitive to this or you're in a
country that uses different car lights than here in the USA. There
are a lot of cars with LED lighting, headlights and rear lights, and
I've never noticed this flickering, nor have I ever heard it mentioned
before this thread. I haven't noticed flickering from any LED lights
I've used either.

I can see flicker on a 60Hz CRT monitor, but not on a 90Hz one, so that'll give you an idea on how good my eyes are.

Can you see flicker on tailliights if you scan your eyes across the scene?

Like I said, I haven't noticed it in the driving I've done. Nor have I
heard anyone else mention it. Next time I come across a car that has
LEDs I'll look more closely and see if I can see anything. If just
scanning reveals it, you;d think a lot of people would be noticing it.
Scanning is a part of driving.

I'd estimate about 1 in 5 people can see it, similar to how many can see flicker on a 60Hz CRT computer monitor.

Don't most cars have LEDs now? Or does your area have a lot of older cars? People (stupidly) around here seem to like cars that are no more than 10 years old. I don't think many cars after 2008 had bulbs.

Searching for "LED tail light flicker" without the quotes in google produces 4.5 million results!

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:09:00 -0000, Sir Gaygory's Owner's Owner �笛 wrote:


On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
determined that the following was of great
importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare Snyder
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in time,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you have
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they all
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ all being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ taking photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That was 40 years
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope? Since this landed in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ No such thing as "2 phase" -
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA - centre tapped 240V.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Which could conceivably mean I could have some lights on each circuit,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ and if they were fed by half wave rectification, flickering at 50Hz,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ they could be out of time with each other and make the whole room
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's gaps. Mind you the same can
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ happen by just putting the bulb in the other way (in the UK bayonet cap
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the other way at random with
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ bulbs).
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit is reaching
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 120+120 = 240.

it's actually not technically that the phases reach their peak values at the same time, as they are 180 degrees out of phase. phase a is reaching its peak at the same time as phase b is at its lowest point. voltage potentials are calculated as the difference in potentials between two conductors.

120 - (-120) = 120 + 120 = 240


Only half wave rectified LED PSUs would help each other out when connected to the other half of the phase.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:41:04 -0000, LO AND BEHOLD; "William Gothberg"
"William determined that the following was
of great importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us
in :

œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:09:00 -0000, 💩's Owner ðŸ�¶ç¬›
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ determined that the following was of great
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ :
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote: œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Clare Snyder œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ "Clark W. Griswold" œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote: œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Gothberg wrote: œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote: œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Do
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ LED power supplies in commercially
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ available domestic lamps. By in time, œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you have
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ several such lamps each with their
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ own built in supply, will they all œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ will they be random, making the room
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ overall not flicker due to them œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ all
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ taking photos of them, but my camera
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ for
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ sun
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That was 40 years
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ The trouble is I want to compare
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ neighbouring light and see if they're
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ in sync. œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope?
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Since this landed in œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ have single-phase or two-phase? œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ No
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ such thing as "2 phase" - œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Perhaps he meant split phase, like in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ the USA - centre tapped 240V. œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Which could conceivably mean I could
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ have some lights on each circuit, œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ and if they were fed by half wave
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ rectification, flickering at 50Hz, œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ they could be out of time with each
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ other and make the whole room œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker at 100Hz, filling in each
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ other's gaps. Mind you the same can œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ happen by just putting the bulb in the
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ other way (in the UK bayonet cap œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ fittings allow you to connect
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ live/neutral the other way at random with
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ bulbs). œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ They won't be out of time with each
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ other as each circuit is reaching œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 120+120 = 240. it's actually not
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ technically that the phases reach their peak values at the same time,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ as they are 180 degrees out of phase. phase a is reaching its peak at
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ the same time as phase b is at its lowest point. voltage potentials are
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ calculated as the difference in potentials between two conductors. 120
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ - (-120) = 120 + 120 = 240
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Only half wave rectified LED PSUs would help each other out when
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ connected to the other half of the phase.

true story.

--
[THIS POAST HAS PASSED TRIMCHECK® VALIDATION]

THIS SPACE FOR RENT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB6B8jGSdLA

"Thanks to muzzies and their apologist-enablers like puppy whistle, this
seems to be the new norm in the world. It's spreading like a cancer,
and it's time we admit we're at war with pure evil. We need to put an
end to this muzzie plague, or life on Earth is going to become pure hell
everywhere. We need to get these people out of every civilized
country, and there's only one way to do it. IOW, we have to become
like them, with an emphasis on expediency over cruelty." - Checkmate (of alt.checkmate)

"Pussy Willow has just proven that Trump's crackdown on previously
unenforced immigration policies is working. We'll deal with the domestic
terrorists as needed, but we don't need to be letting the muzzie
terrorists get a foothold in our country too. One need only look at what
they're doing in Europe right now to know we're doing the right thing by
keeping them out, which is our right and our duty. - Checkmate (#1 pussy willow fan)

-

"You just made puppy whistle's sig line longer." - Janithor

-

"If I have a complaint about the (Southern Poverty) Law Center's description (of the alt-right movement), it is the phrase "heavy use of social media," which implies the alt-right is a real-world movement which uses a lot of social media. This is backwards: it is an online movement which occasionally appears in the real world. Where it gets punched." - Jason Rhode

-

"I think we should destroy every last ****ing mosque in America." - "Checkmate, DoW #1" proves for us that white males are violent in Message-ID:

-

Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD ****heads, March 2016

On 2018-12-20 10:08 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:04:50 -0000, Sir Gaygory's Owner's Owner �笛
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
determined that the following was of great
importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5,
William Gothberg
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare
Snyder
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19
-0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/2018 11:36
AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19
Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time
with mains?Â* Specifically
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ LED power supplies in commercially available
domestic lamps. By in time,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored
to it. I.e. if you have
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ several such lamps each with their own built
in supply, will they all
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker in time, using the mains frequency to
keep them in time, or
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ will they be random, making the room overall
not flicker due to them
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ all being random?Â* And is there any way I can
test this?Â* I tried
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ taking photos of them, but my camera only goes
as fast as 1/2000th of a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ second, which shows all the lights at the same
brightness each time, I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather
than a microphone
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen
to light. The
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That
was 40 years
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ The
trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Maybe use a dual trace
oscilloscope? Since this landed in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ alt.home.repair, I
gotta ask.Â* Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ No such thing as "2 phase" -
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA
- centre tapped 240V.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Which could conceivably mean I could have some
lights on each circuit,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ and if they were fed by half wave
rectification, flickering at 50Hz,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ they could be out of time with each other and
make the whole room
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's
gaps.Â* Mind you the same can
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ happen by just putting the bulb in the other
way (in the UK bayonet cap
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the
other way at random with
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ bulbs).
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit
is reaching
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ it's peak value at exactly the same time.Â* That's how you
get 240V,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 120+120 = 240.

they know a lot about this over in alt.checkmate

What the **** are all those stars for?

i want them there

On 12/20/18 11:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Either you have eyes that are way more sensitive to this or you're in a
country that uses different car lights than here in the USA. There
are a lot of cars with LED lighting, headlights and rear lights, and
I've never noticed this flickering, nor have I ever heard it mentioned
before this thread. I haven't noticed flickering from any LED lights
I've used either.


They flicker at the same rate as the vehicle battery...unless you have a two-phase alternator.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:14:07 -0000, % wrote:


On 2018-12-20 10:08 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:04:50 -0000, Sir Gaygory's Owner's Owner �笛
wrote:


On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
determined that the following was of great
importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5,
William Gothberg
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare
Snyder
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19
-0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/2018 11:36
AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On Wed, 19
Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time
with mains? Specifically
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ LED power supplies in commercially available
domestic lamps. By in time,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored
to it. I.e. if you have
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ several such lamps each with their own built
in supply, will they all
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker in time, using the mains frequency to
keep them in time, or
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ will they be random, making the room overall
not flicker due to them
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ all being random? And is there any way I can
test this? I tried
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ taking photos of them, but my camera only goes
as fast as 1/2000th of a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ second, which shows all the lights at the same
brightness each time, I
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather
than a microphone
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen
to light. The
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That
was 40 years
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ The
trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Maybe use a dual trace
oscilloscope? Since this landed in
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ alt.home.repair, I
gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ No such thing as "2 phase" -
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA
- centre tapped 240V.
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ Which could conceivably mean I could have some
lights on each circuit,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ and if they were fed by half wave
rectification, flickering at 50Hz,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ they could be out of time with each other and
make the whole room
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's
gaps. Mind you the same can
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ happen by just putting the bulb in the other
way (in the UK bayonet cap
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the
other way at random with
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ bulbs).
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit
is reaching
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you
get 240V,
œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡œ¡ 120+120 = 240.

they know a lot about this over in alt.checkmate


What the **** are all those stars for?


i want them there


Why?

In article , "William
says...

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:04:50 -0000, Sir Gaygory's Owner's Owner ?? wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
determined that the following was of great
importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
:
??????????? On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
??????????? wrote:
??????????? ??????????? On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare Snyder
??????????? ??????????? wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? LED power supplies in commercially available domestic lamps. By in time,
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you have
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? several such lamps each with their own built in supply, will they all
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? will they be random, making the room overall not flicker due to them
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? all being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? taking photos of them, but my camera only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That was 40 years
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? The trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope? Since this landed in
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? No such thing as "2 phase" -
??????????? ??????????? Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA - centre tapped 240V.
??????????? ??????????? Which could conceivably mean I could have some lights on each circuit,
??????????? ??????????? and if they were fed by half wave rectification, flickering at 50Hz,
??????????? ??????????? they could be out of time with each other and make the whole room
??????????? ??????????? flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's gaps. Mind you the same can
??????????? ??????????? happen by just putting the bulb in the other way (in the UK bayonet cap
??????????? ??????????? fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the other way at random with
??????????? ??????????? bulbs).
???????????
??????????? They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit is reaching
??????????? it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V,
??????????? 120+120 = 240.

they know a lot about this over in alt.checkmate

What the **** are all those stars for?

it's called attribution, don't you know anything?

In article , root@
127.0.0.1 says...

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:08:00 -0000, LO AND BEHOLD; "William Gothberg"
"William determined that the following was
of great importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us
in :

½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:04:50 -0000, ð¾?©'s Owner ð¾�¶ç¬?
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ wrote:
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ determined that the following was of great
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ :
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ 7:51:32 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ wrote: ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000,
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ Clare Snyder ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ wrote:
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19 -0500,
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ "Clark W. Griswold" ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ wrote: ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ On 12/19/2018 11:36 AM, William
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ Gothberg wrote: ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ On
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ wrote: ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ Do
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains? Specifically
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ LED power supplies in commercially
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ available domestic lamps. By in time, ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ I
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored to it. I.e. if you have
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ several such lamps each with their
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ own built in supply, will they all ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ flicker in time, using the mains frequency to keep them in time, or
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ will they be random, making the room
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ overall not flicker due to them ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ all
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ being random? And is there any way I can test this? I tried
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ taking photos of them, but my camera
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ only goes as fast as 1/2000th of a ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ second, which shows all the lights at the same brightness each time, I
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ I
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather than a microphone
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ for
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ the input transducer. This made it possible to listen to light. The
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ sun
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That was 40 years
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ The trouble is I want to compare
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ neighbouring light and see if they're
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ in sync. ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ Maybe use a dual trace oscilloscope?
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ Since this landed in ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ alt.home.repair, I gotta ask. Do you
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ have single-phase or two-phase? ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ No
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ such thing as "2 phase" - ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ Perhaps he meant split phase, like in
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ the USA - centre tapped 240V. ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ Which could conceivably mean I could
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ have some lights on each circuit, ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ and if they were fed by half wave
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ rectification, flickering at 50Hz, ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ they could be out of time with each
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ other and make the whole room ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ flicker at 100Hz, filling in each
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ other's gaps. Mind you the same can ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ happen by just putting the bulb in the
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ other way (in the UK bayonet cap ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ fittings allow you to connect
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ live/neutral the other way at random with
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ bulbs). ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ They won't be out of time with each
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ other as each circuit is reaching ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you get 240V,
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ 120+120 = 240. they know a lot about
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ ½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ this over in alt.checkmate
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡
½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡½¡ What the **** are all those stars for?

to protest against white supremacy and fascism.

yay

In article , "William
says...

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:14:07 -0000, % wrote:

On 2018-12-20 10:08 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:04:50 -0000, Sir Gaygory's Owner's Owner ??
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:34:35 -0800 (PST), LO AND BEHOLD; trader_4
determined that the following was of great
importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
:
??????????? On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5,
William Gothberg
??????????? wrote:
??????????? ??????????? On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:31:31 -0000, Clare
Snyder
??????????? ??????????? wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:03:19
-0500, "Clark W. Griswold"
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? On 12/19/2018 11:36
AM, William Gothberg wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? On Wed, 19
Dec 2018 16:18:29 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? On 12/19/18 5:23 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time
with mains? Specifically
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? LED power supplies in commercially available
domestic lamps. By in time,
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? I don't mean at the same 50/60Hz, but anchored
to it. I.e. if you have
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? several such lamps each with their own built
in supply, will they all
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? flicker in time, using the mains frequency to
keep them in time, or
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? will they be random, making the room overall
not flicker due to them
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? all being random? And is there any way I can
test this? I tried
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? taking photos of them, but my camera only goes
as fast as 1/2000th of a
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? second, which shows all the lights at the same
brightness each time, I
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ??????????? suspect the flicker is above 2000Hz.
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? I once had an audio amplifier with a solar cell rather
than a microphone
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? for the input transducer. This made it possible to listen
to light. The
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? sun is steady, incandescent lights (AC powered) hum. That
was 40 years
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
??????????? ago. Maybe something like that would work today.
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? The
trouble is I want to compare 2kHz+ from one light with 2kHz+ from a
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????????
neighbouring light and see if they're in sync.
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? Maybe use a dual trace
oscilloscope? Since this landed in
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? alt.home.repair, I
gotta ask. Do you have single-phase or two-phase?
??????????? ??????????? ??????????? No such thing as "2 phase" -
??????????? ??????????? Perhaps he meant split phase, like in the USA
- centre tapped 240V.
??????????? ??????????? Which could conceivably mean I could have some
lights on each circuit,
??????????? ??????????? and if they were fed by half wave
rectification, flickering at 50Hz,
??????????? ??????????? they could be out of time with each other and
make the whole room
??????????? ??????????? flicker at 100Hz, filling in each other's
gaps. Mind you the same can
??????????? ??????????? happen by just putting the bulb in the other
way (in the UK bayonet cap
??????????? ??????????? fittings allow you to connect live/neutral the
other way at random with
??????????? ??????????? bulbs).
???????????
??????????? They won't be out of time with each other as each circuit
is reaching
??????????? it's peak value at exactly the same time. That's how you
get 240V,
??????????? 120+120 = 240.

they know a lot about this over in alt.checkmate

What the **** are all those stars for?

i want them there

Why?

you dare question the % ?