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#41
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 17:55:55 -0600, dpb wrote:
On 12/8/2018 1:26 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: ... They USED to have "wild pilots" too - where the gas flowed to the pilot even if the pilot light blew out. Nasty things, those wild pilots. The little heater in the well house was one for over 50 years until I swapped it out for a safety valve setup a couple years ago....the amount of gas through the pilot is so small as to be essentially negligible unless the area is extremely small and very tight...in the 10x16x8 well house, it was difficult to smell the odor even if it had been a day or more before discovered it was out. But, the gas co guy during one leak check visit said he didn't dare let it go any longer as "by the book" he could be as much as fired if another tech came by after him and noted it and he hadn't... Not that it isn't better to have than not, but they really aren't _that_ risky. Not in a drafty well-house. Not with natural gas. But propane in the well house, or natural gas in an unvented area could be a "big bang" not only in theory- - - - - - |
#42
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On 12/8/2018 8:21 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 17:55:55 -0600, dpb wrote: On 12/8/2018 1:26 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: ... They USED to have "wild pilots" too - where the gas flowed to the pilot even if the pilot light blew out. Nasty things, those wild pilots. The little heater in the well house was one for over 50 years until I swapped it out for a safety valve setup a couple years ago....the amount of gas through the pilot is so small as to be essentially negligible unless the area is extremely small and very tight...in the 10x16x8 well house, it was difficult to smell the odor even if it had been a day or more before discovered it was out. But, the gas co guy during one leak check visit said he didn't dare let it go any longer as "by the book" he could be as much as fired if another tech came by after him and noted it and he hadn't... Not that it isn't better to have than not, but they really aren't _that_ risky. Not in a drafty well-house. Not with natural gas. But propane in the well house, or natural gas in an unvented area could be a "big bang" not only in theory- - - - - - It's _not_ "a drafty well house"...it's a well-built, insulated block building...heavier than air propane is potentially a different animal, yes. -- |
#43
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote:
On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? What are they using, real boiler steam heat, or hot water ? |
#44
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Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert! LOL
On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 08:19:13 -0000 (UTC), gregz, the unbelievably stupid,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered: What are they using, real boiler steam heat, or hot water ? He's using YOU for his trolling, you unbelievably stupid, senile idiot! tsk |
#46
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 08:19:13 -0000, gregz wrote:
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? What are they using, real boiler steam heat, or hot water ? In the UK we use hot water, about 70 to 80C. This heats (by a heat exchanger) the hot water tank, and directly the radiators full of water. Or more modern ones heat the water for hot taps directly, but those are new enough to not use pilot lights, they have electric spark ignition. |
#47
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 23:07:39 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message ... On 12/8/18 3:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote: wrote in message ... On 12/8/18 1:39 PM, Davey wrote: On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 16:41:17 -0000 "Bruce Farquhar" wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? When I lived in America, I was confused that what Honeywell called a Thermocouple was actually a bulb and capillary tube. See: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Honeywell-Q.../dp/B01H2SOZSK They do not use the differential metal concept, but rather pressure due to expanding liquid. Sorry, not so. Just because it looks like a bulb and capillary, it's not. See https://customer.honeywell.com/en-US...uct.Rank&asc=1 Server Error in '/' Application Oh well. Clicking on link works OK here. Thunderbird & Firefox on Mac OS X Does now too, must have just been a short term glitch on the server or something. Agreed, no problems here yesterday or today on Opera in Windows 10. |
#48
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
A thermocouple produces enough to power a spacecraft?!? Or just for some small electronics?
On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:04:59 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote: I'm sure you know this but the Voyager spacecraft are using thermocouples using the heat from decaying plutonium for power all the way out in the cosmos. it may be reducing now but its been one heck of a long time. Brian |
#49
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 20:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 18:32:08 -0000, Max Demian wrote: On 08/12/2018 16:41, Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? Well they used to have a bimetallic strip to hold the pilot light valve open rather than a thermocouple. Or maybe that's when boilers didn't have an electrical connection at all. The electricity from the mains supply (on an old basic/system boiler/furnace) is nothing to do with the pilot light, it just operates the main gas valve. The mains connection to my boiler is only on when the room stat calls for heat. When the room is warm enough, no electricity is given to the boiler at all. What do you mean "when boilers didn't have an electrical connection at all"? Surely they need something to tell them to start burning gas? Doesn't have to be an electrical thermostat, can be a bimetallic thermostat or a bulb and capillary tube. For the internal stat for its own tank, yes. But the room stat needs to tell the boiler remotely, which is always electricity surely. |
#50
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:53:35 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? **** off and die Hucker. Get a hobby or contribute something to the group, ******. |
#51
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:49:40 -0000, wrote:
On 12/8/18 2:24 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 12:40:57 -0500, wrote: On 12/8/18 11:41 AM, Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? To *hold* the valve open only requires a small voltage & current. To *pull* the valve open would require a larger voltage. That's why you have to "Press & Hold" the manual knob to restart a pilot. See here for more detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermo...pliance_safety Don't know about the UK, but MOST north American furnaces don't use the thermocouple voltage to operate the valve. The thermocouple "signal" uperates an electronic circuit that provides power from a transformer to operate the gas valve for the furnace burner - the thermocouple DOES operate the "hold" bias forthe(very small and low powered) pilot valve. Some gas fireplaces and non fan forced heaters use a "thermopile" that does operate the actual gasvalve directly - allowing use without grid power. I was using the word valve to mean the pilot light's own valve that closes if the pilot goes out, as used in the Wiki article. BTW I've seen main line gas valves that have a lever to open them in event of AC power failure. Although not much help on forced air furnaces. Not much point in doing that with my system, as the pump to move the water to the radiators needs electricity. I assume forced air systems need electricity for the fans. Of course if I had regular powercuts, I could simply use a battery backup with an invertor (like a computer UPS) to make it run. |
#52
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 11:36:53 AM UTC-5, Bruce Farquhar wrote:
On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 02:18:42 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 22:59:22 -0000 (UTC), (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: In article , Clive Arthur writes: On 08/12/2018 17:51, Bruce Farquhar wrote: On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 17:40:57 -0000, wrote: On 12/8/18 11:41 AM, Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? To *hold* the valve open only requires a small voltage & current. To *pull* the valve open would require a larger voltage. That's why you have to "Press & Hold" the manual knob to restart a pilot. See here for more detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermo...pliance_safety I see, thanks. I thought the "press and hold" was just to keep the valve open until the thermocouple warmed up. So I'm providing the effort to open the valve with my thumb. That link states 0.2-0.25A - do you really get that much current off a thermocouple? Yes, it's a very low impedance source, a metal to different metal contact. 10mV 200mA is 50 milliohms. It's only 2mW, but that's a very small proportion of the pilot flame power. Indeed - a pilot flame is typically around 250W. A lot closer to 65 than 250 for MOST natural gas pilot lights (about 60 cu meters per year) Some of the really old ones may have used 4 times as much - - - Nothing available today (in a furnace) (at least in Canada) has a standing pilot. All have electric ignition as part of the "high efficiency"standard. I doubt it's as high as either of those, or your gas bill would be astronomical. Plus the boiler would feel pretty damn warm to the touch even when not using the main burner. Imagine leaving a 60W lightbulb running inside a metal box and think how hot it would get. I could run a 60W bulb 24/7 for a month here for $5 using electric. Natural gas is about half the cost of electric or less, so figure ~$2 a month for a 60W pilot light. That's not astronomical nor would 60W going into a boiler produce much in the way of raising it's temp significantly. Most of that small amount of heat probably goes right up the flue with the natural draft that's there, unless it's a modern one that limits that. But those don't have pilot lights. |
#53
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On 09/12/2018 16:40, Bruce Farquhar wrote:
A thermocouple produces enough to power a spacecraft?!?* Or just for some small electronics? They can generate up to a few hundred watts, enough for the electronics, instruments and transmitter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioi...tric_generator -- Max Demian |
#54
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Troll-feeding Senile Yankietard Alert! BG
On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 09:16:12 -0800 (PST), tardo_4 an especially stupid,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered: I could run You can run as a brain dead, notorious, senile sucker of troll cock, tardo_4, you senile piece of Yankie ****! |
#55
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Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!
On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 18:29:19 +0000, Max Demian, an especially stupid,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered They can generate up to a few hundred watts, enough for the electronics, instruments and transmitter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioi...tric_generator Is there NO troll bait silly enough that you brain-dead, troll-feeding, senile idiot will NOT take? tsk |
#56
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On 12/9/2018 12:29 PM, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/12/2018 16:40, Bruce Farquhar wrote: A thermocouple produces enough to power a spacecraft?!?* Or just for some small electronics? They can generate up to a few hundred watts, ... They _can_ generate as much as you have space and weight to be able to package... For extra-terrestrial use, the payload limits are the issue. -- |
#57
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 18:29:19 +0000, Max Demian
wrote: On 09/12/2018 16:40, Bruce Farquhar wrote: A thermocouple produces enough to power a spacecraft?!?* Or just for some small electronics? They can generate up to a few hundred watts, enough for the electronics, instruments and transmitter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioi...tric_generator There is a big difference between a "thermocouple" and a "peltier junction device". Most "thermoelectic generators" are Peltier. |
#58
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
Bruce Farquhar wrote
A thermocouple produces enough to power a spacecraft?!? It isnt a single thermocouple, it's a thermopile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_space Or just for some small electronics? Not small at all. On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:04:59 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote: I'm sure you know this but the Voyager spacecraft are using thermocouples using the heat from decaying plutonium for power all the way out in the cosmos. it may be reducing now but its been one heck of a long time. |
#59
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 20:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed wrote: "Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 18:32:08 -0000, Max Demian wrote: On 08/12/2018 16:41, Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? Well they used to have a bimetallic strip to hold the pilot light valve open rather than a thermocouple. Or maybe that's when boilers didn't have an electrical connection at all. The electricity from the mains supply (on an old basic/system boiler/furnace) is nothing to do with the pilot light, it just operates the main gas valve. The mains connection to my boiler is only on when the room stat calls for heat. When the room is warm enough, no electricity is given to the boiler at all. What do you mean "when boilers didn't have an electrical connection at all"? Surely they need something to tell them to start burning gas? Doesn't have to be an electrical thermostat, can be a bimetallic thermostat or a bulb and capillary tube. For the internal stat for its own tank, yes. But the room stat needs to tell the boiler remotely, which is always electricity surely. No, the original oil or gas fired boilers didn't have to be. Corse they werent always thermostatted either. |
#60
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:53:35 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote: Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? **** off and die Hucker. Get a hobby or contribute something to the group, ******. He already does both. But all it contributes in that sort of ****. |
#61
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Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 08:40:03 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: Or just for some small electronics? Not small at all. You STILL haven't learned your lesson, my favourite senile punching bag? OK, wait and see... LOL -- about senile Rot Speed: "This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage." MID: |
#62
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Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 08:42:36 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: No Still competing with the Scottish ****** for the position as top idiot on all these groups, senile Rot? LOL -- dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed: "You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about." Message-ID: |
#63
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Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 08:44:11 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: Get a hobby or contribute something to the group, ******. He already does both. But all it contributes in that sort of ****. The Scottish ******'s hobby is getting you to suck him off as often as possible; and your senile hobby is to suck him off as often as possible, right, senile Rot? Now try to disprove it, senile cocksucker! BG -- Norman Wells addressing senile Rot: "Ah, the voice of scum speaks." MID: |
#64
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 21:44:11 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:53:35 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote: Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? **** off and die Hucker. Get a hobby or contribute something to the group, ******. He already does both. But all it contributes in that sort of ****. Pounder has no hobbies. He just does as his wife tells him. |
#65
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 21:42:36 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 20:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed wrote: "Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 18:32:08 -0000, Max Demian wrote: On 08/12/2018 16:41, Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? Well they used to have a bimetallic strip to hold the pilot light valve open rather than a thermocouple. Or maybe that's when boilers didn't have an electrical connection at all. The electricity from the mains supply (on an old basic/system boiler/furnace) is nothing to do with the pilot light, it just operates the main gas valve. The mains connection to my boiler is only on when the room stat calls for heat. When the room is warm enough, no electricity is given to the boiler at all. What do you mean "when boilers didn't have an electrical connection at all"? Surely they need something to tell them to start burning gas? Doesn't have to be an electrical thermostat, can be a bimetallic thermostat or a bulb and capillary tube. For the internal stat for its own tank, yes. But the room stat needs to tell the boiler remotely, which is always electricity surely. No, the original oil or gas fired boilers didn't have to be. Corse they werent always thermostatted either. If they had a room stat, how else would the stat tell the boiler to fire up? |
#66
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 21:40:03 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:
Bruce Farquhar wrote A thermocouple produces enough to power a spacecraft?!? It isnt a single thermocouple, it's a thermopile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_space Or just for some small electronics? Not small at all. Why are these not used on earth? On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:04:59 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote: I'm sure you know this but the Voyager spacecraft are using thermocouples using the heat from decaying plutonium for power all the way out in the cosmos. it may be reducing now but its been one heck of a long time. |
#67
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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nuclear thermal generators, was: How does a thermocouple ...
In "Bruce Farquhar" writes:
Why are these not used on earth? Do you really, really, want chunks of plutonium or strontium 90i sitting around? Well, since you ask: [wiki] In addition to spacecraft, the Soviet Union constructed many unmanned lighthouses and navigation beacons powered by RTGs.[5] ...... One RTG, the SNAP-19C, was lost near the top of Nanda Devi mountain in India in 1965 when it was stored in a rock formation near the top of the mountain in the face of a snowstorm before it could be installed to power a CIA remote automated station collecting telemetry from the Chinese rocket testing facility. ======= rest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioi...tric_generator On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:04:59 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote: I'm sure you know this but the Voyager spacecraft are using thermocouples using the heat from decaying plutonium for power all the way out in the cosmos. it may be reducing now but its been one heck of a long time. -- __________________________________________________ ___ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] |
#68
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
On 12/9/2018 5:07 PM, Bruce Farquhar wrote:
On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 21:40:03 -0000, Rod Speed wrote: Bruce Farquhar wrote A thermocouple produces enough to power a spacecraft?!? It isnt a single thermocouple, it's a thermopile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_space Or just for some small electronics? Not small at all. Why are these not used on earth? .... They are...and have been for 40 yr or more in remote locations like the Arctic, Antarctic, lighthouses, etc., etc., ... the Russians probably have had the most numerically but they've no monopoly. -- |
#69
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nuclear thermal generators, was: How does a thermocouple ...
On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 23:28:59 -0000, danny burstein wrote:
In "Bruce Farquhar" writes: Why are these not used on earth? Do you really, really, want chunks of plutonium or strontium 90i sitting around? We do have nuclear power stations which can and do explode.... Well, since you ask: [wiki] In addition to spacecraft, the Soviet Union constructed many unmanned lighthouses and navigation beacons powered by RTGs.[5] ...... One RTG, the SNAP-19C, was lost near the top of Nanda Devi mountain in India in 1965 when it was stored in a rock formation near the top of the mountain in the face of a snowstorm before it could be installed to power a CIA remote automated station collecting telemetry from the Chinese rocket testing facility. ======= rest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioi...tric_generator On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:04:59 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote: I'm sure you know this but the Voyager spacecraft are using thermocouples using the heat from decaying plutonium for power all the way out in the cosmos. it may be reducing now but its been one heck of a long time. |
#70
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Troll-feeding Senile Yankietard Alert!
On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 17:41:59 -0600, dpb, yet another braindamaged,
troll-feeding, senile Yankietard, blathered: They are...and have Unbelievable! The filthy Scottish ******, attention whore and troll asks ....and some senile Yank like you will inevitably run along to start feeding him! LOL |
#71
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 21:44:11 -0000, Rod Speed wrote: "Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:53:35 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote: Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? **** off and die Hucker. Get a hobby or contribute something to the group, ******. He already does both. But all it contributes is that sort of ****. Pounder has no hobbies. Corse he does, post that steaming turd to all your posts. He just does as his wife tells him. And does that your posts. Unlikely his wife tells him to do that. |
#72
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 21:42:36 -0000, Rod Speed wrote: "Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 20:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed wrote: "Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 18:32:08 -0000, Max Demian wrote: On 08/12/2018 16:41, Bruce Farquhar wrote: On older boilers (furnaces if you're American), when the heating isn't actually running (eg. the thermostat says the house is warm enough), there's no power to the boiler, so how does the pilot light valve stay open with the tiny voltage (40mV?) and current from the thermocouple? Well they used to have a bimetallic strip to hold the pilot light valve open rather than a thermocouple. Or maybe that's when boilers didn't have an electrical connection at all. The electricity from the mains supply (on an old basic/system boiler/furnace) is nothing to do with the pilot light, it just operates the main gas valve. The mains connection to my boiler is only on when the room stat calls for heat. When the room is warm enough, no electricity is given to the boiler at all. What do you mean "when boilers didn't have an electrical connection at all"? Surely they need something to tell them to start burning gas? Doesn't have to be an electrical thermostat, can be a bimetallic thermostat or a bulb and capillary tube. For the internal stat for its own tank, yes. But the room stat needs to tell the boiler remotely, which is always electricity surely. No, the original oil or gas fired boilers didn't have to be. Corse they werent always thermostatted either. If they had a room stat, how else would the stat tell the boiler to fire up? Doesn't have to be an electrical stat tho. |
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How does a thermocouple have enough power to operate a gas valve?
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 21:40:03 -0000, Rod Speed wrote: Bruce Farquhar wrote A thermocouple produces enough to power a spacecraft?!? It isnt a single thermocouple, it's a thermopile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_space Or just for some small electronics? Not small at all. Why are these not used on earth? A few were, mostly by the russians for powering remote places like lighthouses. Its more viable to use a solar panel and batterys for most situations on earth. The long range probes don't always have enough sunlight to go that route with probes so use small nukes instead. Very reliable, no moving parts to fail. On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:04:59 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote: I'm sure you know this but the Voyager spacecraft are using thermocouples using the heat from decaying plutonium for power all the way out in the cosmos. it may be reducing now but its been one heck of a long time. |
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nuclear thermal generators, was: How does a thermocouple ...
"Bruce Farquhar" wrote in message news On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 23:28:59 -0000, danny burstein wrote: In "Bruce Farquhar" writes: Why are these not used on earth? Do you really, really, want chunks of plutonium or strontium 90i sitting around? We do have nuclear power stations which can and do explode.... Those ones used on earth don't. And even you should have noticed that with an unmanned light house or warning light on the top of a mountain etc that it's not that easy to stop someone grabbing it and taking it home to power their remote holiday shack etc. Well, since you ask: [wiki] In addition to spacecraft, the Soviet Union constructed many unmanned lighthouses and navigation beacons powered by RTGs.[5] ...... One RTG, the SNAP-19C, was lost near the top of Nanda Devi mountain in India in 1965 when it was stored in a rock formation near the top of the mountain in the face of a snowstorm before it could be installed to power a CIA remote automated station collecting telemetry from the Chinese rocket testing facility. ======= rest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioi...tric_generator On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:04:59 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote: I'm sure you know this but the Voyager spacecraft are using thermocouples using the heat from decaying plutonium for power all the way out in the cosmos. it may be reducing now but its been one heck of a long time. |
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Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 14:39:31 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: We do have nuclear power stations which can and do explode.... Those ones used on earth don't. Tell that to those who lived near one that did explode, senile cretin! tsk -- dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed: "You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about." Message-ID: |
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Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 14:16:25 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: FLUSH more of the usual troll **** unread -- about senile Rot Speed: "This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage." MID: |
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nuclear thermal generators, was: How does a thermocouple ...
On 10/12/2018 09:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Bruce Farquhar wrote: On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 23:28:59 -0000, danny burstein wrote: In "Bruce Farquhar" writes: Why are these not used on earth? Do you really, really, want chunks of plutonium or strontium 90i sitting around? We do have nuclear power stations which can and do explode.... Wrong. Well if you count a hydrogen explosion that happened because the staff were not allowed too vent the hydrogen to the atmopshere because it might be slightly radioactive... -- Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is that they are dead. Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners. |
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Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 14:13:33 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: If they had a room stat, how else would the stat tell the boiler to fire up? Doesn't have to be an electrical stat tho. LOL You just HAVE to auto-contradict, regardless of how illogical the result will be, eh, you abnormal ****ed up senile cretin? -- Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot: "Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)" MID: |
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Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 14:12:19 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: Pounder has no hobbies. Corse he does, post that steaming turd to all your posts. That would beat opening the unwashed Scottish ******'s fly and sucking his unwashed cock at every opportunity like you keep doing, senile Rot! He just does as his wife tells him. And does that your posts. Unlikely his wife tells him to do that. Unlikely that ANYONE in rea life is talking to you ...or you wouldn't get up every day between 1 and 4 o'clock in the morning just to continue with your abnormal trolling on all these groups without too long a break, you abnormal senile cretin! BTW, don't you hope that you will EVER get away from me any time soon! I will keep having fun slapping you despicable piece of senile **** around the place for as long as you got the cheek to continue with your senile antics on these groups! LOL -- The Natural Philosopher about senile Rot: "Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole." Message-ID: |
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nuclear thermal generators, was: How does a thermocouple ...
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:20:58 -0000, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Bruce Farquhar wrote: On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 23:28:59 -0000, danny burstein wrote: In "Bruce Farquhar" writes: Why are these not used on earth? Do you really, really, want chunks of plutonium or strontium 90i sitting around? We do have nuclear power stations which can and do explode.... Wrong. Are you an ostrich or something? I don't read the news much, but even I know many nuclear power stations have ****ed up. Lemme see, 3 mile island, Chernobyl, that one in Japan.... |
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