This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:01:54 +0100, Bod wrote:

This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

They just look at federal spending but that includes military bases,
federal agencies, social security payments and things like the space
program. I suppose the NASA space flight center in Alabama is
"welfare" but I doubt the people working there think so.
You notice Maryland and Virginia are also on the list and they are
both very blue and very rich. They just get a lot of government money
because they surround DC.

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:27:25 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:01:54 +0100, Bod wrote:

This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

They just look at federal spending but that includes military bases,
federal agencies, social security payments and things like the space
program. I suppose the NASA space flight center in Alabama is
"welfare" but I doubt the people working there think so.

Of course it's not true "welfare", but it is the state getting a big economic
boost, good, high paying jobs, thanks to the federal govt. That's the point.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I? New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.
As for the voter, if they are not paying more than $10k SALT they
still got a tax cut. That is most if not all of the red state voters
and quite a few in the blue states. It is certainly any working class
renter.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:39:19 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:27:25 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:01:54 +0100, Bod wrote:

This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

They just look at federal spending but that includes military bases,
federal agencies, social security payments and things like the space
program. I suppose the NASA space flight center in Alabama is
"welfare" but I doubt the people working there think so.

Of course it's not true "welfare", but it is the state getting a big economic
boost, good, high paying jobs, thanks to the federal govt. That's the point.

The government established those bases and agencies in the south to
exploit cheap labor, the same as GM, Ford and Chrysler.
The USCS salary guide allows them to pay less once you get away from
the expensive places.
Md and Va are simply overflow from DC. It started when Lady Bird made
the feds tear down the "temporary" WWII buildings on the mall and they
needed the office space. Most of it ended up in Montgomery County Md,
always in the top 3 richest counties in the US.
Welfare queens? Maybe but they are dark blue. Of course the Pentagon
and the CIA are right there in Virginia. That area is also dotted with
military bases.

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay

And again, part of that is because your state gets more per capita
back in federal taxes than NJ does. We are negative, I suspect FL
is positive. And even the money going into NASA gives you more local
taxes because those people are being paid well, spending money and
being taxes, eg sales taxes.




and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I?


No one is asking you to pay our taxes. We send more money to the federal
govt than we ever get back. Most red states, it's reversed.



New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.

That about sums up Trump and the new GOP's line of thinking. They
wrote off the GOP congressmen from NJ. When they lose some in a few
weeks and it helps push the Democrats into control of the House,
they start impeachment hearings, see what they think then.

On 10/15/2018 8:16 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I? New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.
As for the voter, if they are not paying more than $10k SALT they
still got a tax cut. That is most if not all of the red state voters
and quite a few in the blue states. It is certainly any working class
renter.


Whatever happened to that good old Repub ideal of "No double taxation?"

On 10/15/2018 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay

And again, part of that is because your state gets more per capita
back in federal taxes than NJ does. We are negative, I suspect FL
is positive. And even the money going into NASA gives you more local
taxes because those people are being paid well, spending money and
being taxes, eg sales taxes.




and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I?


No one is asking you to pay our taxes. We send more money to the federal
govt than we ever get back. Most red states, it's reversed.



New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.

That about sums up Trump and the new GOP's line of thinking. They
wrote off the GOP congressmen from NJ. When they lose some in a few
weeks and it helps push the Democrats into control of the House,
they start impeachment hearings, see what they think then.



https://wallethub.com/edu/states-mos...0/#red-vs-blue

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:45:47 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay

And again, part of that is because your state gets more per capita
back in federal taxes than NJ does. We are negative, I suspect FL
is positive. And even the money going into NASA gives you more local
taxes because those people are being paid well, spending money and
being taxes, eg sales taxes.

I think Florida is a donor state too.


and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I?


No one is asking you to pay our taxes. We send more money to the federal
govt than we ever get back. Most red states, it's reversed.

We are still subsidizing your taxes.
I don't know why New Jersey is not getting many government contracts
or many government facilities. Maybe the people in Washington have
been to New Jersey ;-)


New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.

That about sums up Trump and the new GOP's line of thinking. They
wrote off the GOP congressmen from NJ. When they lose some in a few
weeks and it helps push the Democrats into control of the House,
they start impeachment hearings, see what they think then.


Impeached for what? Being a republican?

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:56:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 10/15/2018 8:16 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I? New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.
As for the voter, if they are not paying more than $10k SALT they
still got a tax cut. That is most if not all of the red state voters
and quite a few in the blue states. It is certainly any working class
renter.


Whatever happened to that good old Repub ideal of "No double taxation?"

We didn't tell the dark blue states to make their taxes so high.

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:45:47 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay

And again, part of that is because your state gets more per capita
back in federal taxes than NJ does. We are negative, I suspect FL
is positive. And even the money going into NASA gives you more local
taxes because those people are being paid well, spending money and
being taxes, eg sales taxes.

I think Florida is a donor state too.


and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I?


No one is asking you to pay our taxes. We send more money to the federal
govt than we ever get back. Most red states, it's reversed.

We are still subsidizing your taxes.
I don't know why New Jersey is not getting many government contracts
or many government facilities. Maybe the people in Washington have
been to New Jersey ;-)



One reason is we have two senators that are missing in action.
Menendez, IDK what he does, but he's not helping NJ and the last
few years he's been busy trying to stay out of jail. He might lose
the election here, one poll had him with just a 2 pt lead, another
though puts it at 9. The other skunk is just as useless. He was
totally out of sight, unseen, until he decided to run for president.
So now he's pulling nonsense with the Kavanaugh hearing and touring
Iowa. Prior to that we had Lousenberg, who didn't do anything for NJ
either. The last thing anyone remembers that he did was sponsoring
the ban on smoking on airplanes back in the 80s. He had retired,
but then that other lib crook Toricelli was running for re-election
and tanking in the polls, so the libs got him to quit and dug up
Lousenberg. They did that despite Toricelli quitting at the last
minute, just a few weeks from election. Election law provided that
no ballot changes could be made past a certain date, but the libs
went running to the lib NJ Supreme Court, from which much evil flows
and they said the law doesn't matter, go ahead. So, we got Lousenberg
back and after that election, he too was never heard from again.
None of those slime balls has done a damn thing to bring home any
bacon for NJ. In fact, we keep losing bacon, Ft Monmonmouth base
closing being the latest prime example. It's function was moved to
MD, closed the whole thing.






New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.

That about sums up Trump and the new GOP's line of thinking. They
wrote off the GOP congressmen from NJ. When they lose some in a few
weeks and it helps push the Democrats into control of the House,
they start impeachment hearings, see what they think then.


Impeached for what? Being a republican?

I keep saying he could be impeached for siding with Russia over the
USA, vilifying our intel agencies, claiming they are liars, while praising
Putin. He refused to do his job, refuses to protect future elections.
Then there is the obvious obstruction of justice on multiple occasions.
And his constant tearing down of the justice system, the fabric of govt
could be added to the list. Maybe conspiracy to evade campaign finance
laws too. There is plenty there if they want to do it and Mueller ain't
done yet.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:58:54 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 10/15/2018 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay

And again, part of that is because your state gets more per capita
back in federal taxes than NJ does. We are negative, I suspect FL
is positive. And even the money going into NASA gives you more local
taxes because those people are being paid well, spending money and
being taxes, eg sales taxes.




and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I?


No one is asking you to pay our taxes. We send more money to the federal
govt than we ever get back. Most red states, it's reversed.



New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.

That about sums up Trump and the new GOP's line of thinking. They
wrote off the GOP congressmen from NJ. When they lose some in a few
weeks and it helps push the Democrats into control of the House,
they start impeachment hearings, see what they think then.



https://wallethub.com/edu/states-mos...0/#red-vs-blue

You are still confusing government facilities and military bases with
welfare. Your number might even include SS/MC (some do)

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 13:07:23 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:45:47 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay

And again, part of that is because your state gets more per capita
back in federal taxes than NJ does. We are negative, I suspect FL
is positive. And even the money going into NASA gives you more local
taxes because those people are being paid well, spending money and
being taxes, eg sales taxes.

I think Florida is a donor state too.


and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I?


No one is asking you to pay our taxes. We send more money to the federal
govt than we ever get back. Most red states, it's reversed.

We are still subsidizing your taxes.
I don't know why New Jersey is not getting many government contracts
or many government facilities. Maybe the people in Washington have
been to New Jersey ;-)



One reason is we have two senators that are missing in action.
Menendez, IDK what he does, but he's not helping NJ and the last
few years he's been busy trying to stay out of jail. He might lose
the election here, one poll had him with just a 2 pt lead, another
though puts it at 9. The other skunk is just as useless. He was
totally out of sight, unseen, until he decided to run for president.
So now he's pulling nonsense with the Kavanaugh hearing and touring
Iowa. Prior to that we had Lousenberg, who didn't do anything for NJ
either. The last thing anyone remembers that he did was sponsoring
the ban on smoking on airplanes back in the 80s. He had retired,
but then that other lib crook Toricelli was running for re-election
and tanking in the polls, so the libs got him to quit and dug up
Lousenberg. They did that despite Toricelli quitting at the last
minute, just a few weeks from election. Election law provided that
no ballot changes could be made past a certain date, but the libs
went running to the lib NJ Supreme Court, from which much evil flows
and they said the law doesn't matter, go ahead. So, we got Lousenberg
back and after that election, he too was never heard from again.
None of those slime balls has done a damn thing to bring home any
bacon for NJ. In fact, we keep losing bacon, Ft Monmonmouth base
closing being the latest prime example. It's function was moved to
MD, closed the whole thing.

Keep voting for those weasels and you get what you deserve.


New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.

That about sums up Trump and the new GOP's line of thinking. They
wrote off the GOP congressmen from NJ. When they lose some in a few
weeks and it helps push the Democrats into control of the House,
they start impeachment hearings, see what they think then.


Impeached for what? Being a republican?

I keep saying he could be impeached for siding with Russia over the
USA, vilifying our intel agencies, claiming they are liars, while praising
Putin. He refused to do his job, refuses to protect future elections.
Then there is the obvious obstruction of justice on multiple occasions.
And his constant tearing down of the justice system, the fabric of govt
could be added to the list. Maybe conspiracy to evade campaign finance
laws too. There is plenty there if they want to do it and Mueller ain't
done yet.


You haven't cited a crime yet, just politics you disagree with and
none of that is anywhere near the high bar they need to clear in the
Senate. I don't doubt there will be some Kubuki theater in the house
if the dems get it but it will just be a distraction.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 16:22:36 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:58:54 -0700, Bob F wrote:



https://wallethub.com/edu/states-mos...0/#red-vs-blue

You are still confusing government facilities and military bases with
welfare. Your number might even include SS/MC (some do)

This makes it clear enough.
https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 4:45:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 13:07:23 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:45:47 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay

And again, part of that is because your state gets more per capita
back in federal taxes than NJ does. We are negative, I suspect FL
is positive. And even the money going into NASA gives you more local
taxes because those people are being paid well, spending money and
being taxes, eg sales taxes.

I think Florida is a donor state too.


and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I?


No one is asking you to pay our taxes. We send more money to the federal
govt than we ever get back. Most red states, it's reversed.

We are still subsidizing your taxes.
I don't know why New Jersey is not getting many government contracts
or many government facilities. Maybe the people in Washington have
been to New Jersey ;-)



One reason is we have two senators that are missing in action.
Menendez, IDK what he does, but he's not helping NJ and the last
few years he's been busy trying to stay out of jail. He might lose
the election here, one poll had him with just a 2 pt lead, another
though puts it at 9. The other skunk is just as useless. He was
totally out of sight, unseen, until he decided to run for president.
So now he's pulling nonsense with the Kavanaugh hearing and touring
Iowa. Prior to that we had Lousenberg, who didn't do anything for NJ
either. The last thing anyone remembers that he did was sponsoring
the ban on smoking on airplanes back in the 80s. He had retired,
but then that other lib crook Toricelli was running for re-election
and tanking in the polls, so the libs got him to quit and dug up
Lousenberg. They did that despite Toricelli quitting at the last
minute, just a few weeks from election. Election law provided that
no ballot changes could be made past a certain date, but the libs
went running to the lib NJ Supreme Court, from which much evil flows
and they said the law doesn't matter, go ahead. So, we got Lousenberg
back and after that election, he too was never heard from again.
None of those slime balls has done a damn thing to bring home any
bacon for NJ. In fact, we keep losing bacon, Ft Monmonmouth base
closing being the latest prime example. It's function was moved to
MD, closed the whole thing.

Keep voting for those weasels and you get what you deserve.


I never voted for any of the above weasels. And the Republicans just
screwed us too, so there's that.





New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.

That about sums up Trump and the new GOP's line of thinking. They
wrote off the GOP congressmen from NJ. When they lose some in a few
weeks and it helps push the Democrats into control of the House,
they start impeachment hearings, see what they think then.


Impeached for what? Being a republican?

I keep saying he could be impeached for siding with Russia over the
USA, vilifying our intel agencies, claiming they are liars, while praising
Putin. He refused to do his job, refuses to protect future elections.
Then there is the obvious obstruction of justice on multiple occasions.
And his constant tearing down of the justice system, the fabric of govt
could be added to the list. Maybe conspiracy to evade campaign finance
laws too. There is plenty there if they want to do it and Mueller ain't
done yet.


You haven't cited a crime yet, just politics you disagree with and
none of that is anywhere near the high bar they need to clear in the
Senate. I don't doubt there will be some Kubuki theater in the house
if the dems get it but it will just be a distraction.

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 4:45:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 13:07:23 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:45:47 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay

And again, part of that is because your state gets more per capita
back in federal taxes than NJ does. We are negative, I suspect FL
is positive. And even the money going into NASA gives you more local
taxes because those people are being paid well, spending money and
being taxes, eg sales taxes.

I think Florida is a donor state too.


and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I?


No one is asking you to pay our taxes. We send more money to the federal
govt than we ever get back. Most red states, it's reversed.

We are still subsidizing your taxes.
I don't know why New Jersey is not getting many government contracts
or many government facilities. Maybe the people in Washington have
been to New Jersey ;-)



One reason is we have two senators that are missing in action.
Menendez, IDK what he does, but he's not helping NJ and the last
few years he's been busy trying to stay out of jail. He might lose
the election here, one poll had him with just a 2 pt lead, another
though puts it at 9. The other skunk is just as useless. He was
totally out of sight, unseen, until he decided to run for president.
So now he's pulling nonsense with the Kavanaugh hearing and touring
Iowa. Prior to that we had Lousenberg, who didn't do anything for NJ
either. The last thing anyone remembers that he did was sponsoring
the ban on smoking on airplanes back in the 80s. He had retired,
but then that other lib crook Toricelli was running for re-election
and tanking in the polls, so the libs got him to quit and dug up
Lousenberg. They did that despite Toricelli quitting at the last
minute, just a few weeks from election. Election law provided that
no ballot changes could be made past a certain date, but the libs
went running to the lib NJ Supreme Court, from which much evil flows
and they said the law doesn't matter, go ahead. So, we got Lousenberg
back and after that election, he too was never heard from again.
None of those slime balls has done a damn thing to bring home any
bacon for NJ. In fact, we keep losing bacon, Ft Monmonmouth base
closing being the latest prime example. It's function was moved to
MD, closed the whole thing.

Keep voting for those weasels and you get what you deserve.


New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.

That about sums up Trump and the new GOP's line of thinking. They
wrote off the GOP congressmen from NJ. When they lose some in a few
weeks and it helps push the Democrats into control of the House,
they start impeachment hearings, see what they think then.


Impeached for what? Being a republican?

I keep saying he could be impeached for siding with Russia over the
USA, vilifying our intel agencies, claiming they are liars, while praising
Putin. He refused to do his job, refuses to protect future elections.
Then there is the obvious obstruction of justice on multiple occasions.
And his constant tearing down of the justice system, the fabric of govt
could be added to the list. Maybe conspiracy to evade campaign finance
laws too. There is plenty there if they want to do it and Mueller ain't
done yet.


You haven't cited a crime yet, just politics you disagree with and
none of that is anywhere near the high bar they need to clear in the
Senate. I don't doubt there will be some Kubuki theater in the house
if the dems get it but it will just be a distraction.

Say what? First, it does not require a specific crime to impeach a president.

On 10/15/2018 12:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:56:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 10/15/2018 8:16 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I? New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.
As for the voter, if they are not paying more than $10k SALT they
still got a tax cut. That is most if not all of the red state voters
and quite a few in the blue states. It is certainly any working class
renter.


Whatever happened to that good old Repub ideal of "No double taxation?"

We didn't tell the dark blue states to make their taxes so high.


OK, Got it. You have abandoned that value also.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:41:09 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 10/15/2018 12:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:56:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 10/15/2018 8:16 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
This is an old report, but is this the real truth?


Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be
certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how
Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much
money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is
there any truth to it?
Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking
about the central: who really benefits from government spending? If you
listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states,
packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and
providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.

The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare
Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States €” the ones governed by folks
who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut €” are a net
drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out
in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the
bill.

https://www.businessinsider.com/red-...ns-2011-8?IR=T

--
Bod

It's true. And I pointed that out just yesterday in another thread when
Fretwell was celebrating again that Trump eliminated the deductibility of
state and local taxes from your income when calculating federal income tax.
Before Trump, it went like this:

Gross income $100K
State and local income tax $5000
Real Estate Tax $12000

Taxable income $100K-$5K-$12K = 83K

So you used to pay federal income tax on $83K

With Trump, you pay it on the full $100K, screwing many Americans living
in high tax states. And one reason the taxes are high is we send far more
money to the federal govt than we get back. We're paying our way ourselves
and like you pointed out, the red states get a much larger share of the
federal tax money back than they pay in. Here in NJ, it's reversed.

There was only one NJ Republican congressman stupid enough to vote for the
tax cuts. He's being heavily targeted by the Dems and will likely be one of
the seats they lose in the House. Trump got very little through Congress
with his party in control of both Houses. It will be amusing to watch what
happens when the Dems control the House next year.

And as I pointed out to you they think a military base or a large
government agency in that state is welfare. That is why Maryland and
Virginia both blue, are in the top 10.

You also ignore the fact that you get to take $24,000 right off the
top so that is $76,000 you pay on and if you do itemize they let you
deduct $10,000 for SALT.
Just taking the standard deduction you pay $8730 on your $100k
assuming you have no other credits or adjustments. That is 8.7% of
your income. Tell that to Clare. He pays at least 3 times that and if
you were in Europe it would be much more.
You still want us to subsidize the fact that your state has nose bleed
taxes. Your real estate tax is 7.5 times what I pay and I pay no state
income tax but you want me to pay yours. Why should I? New Jersey is
not doing anything for me.
As for the voter, if they are not paying more than $10k SALT they
still got a tax cut. That is most if not all of the red state voters
and quite a few in the blue states. It is certainly any working class
renter.


Whatever happened to that good old Repub ideal of "No double taxation?"

We didn't tell the dark blue states to make their taxes so high.


OK, Got it. You have abandoned that value also.

I am not really a Republican. I have not voted for a D or an R for
president since 1988 ... and I was wrong. I split my vote in the
senate races but if you don't call yourself a republican here for
anything else you don't vote. The dems won't even run anyone in most
of the local races and they are decided in a "closed" primary.
You can certainly vote for a democrat in the house race but you might
as well write in Kermit the Frog. He has as good a chance of winning.