Which is best for dropping the transmission?

Do you remove the crossmember, the bracket, or just the transmission mount?
* Crossmember http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6290082bracket03.jpg
* Bracket http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4222146bracket02.jpg
* Mount http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6137530bracket01.jpg

Also, do you locktite the bolts when you re-install? (What color?)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9054142locktite01.jpg

On 7/22/18 4:10 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Which is best for dropping the transmission?

Do you remove the crossmember, the bracket, or just the transmission mount?
* Crossmember http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6290082bracket03.jpg
* Bracket http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4222146bracket02.jpg
* Mount http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6137530bracket01.jpg

Also, do you locktite the bolts when you re-install? (What color?)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9054142locktite01.jpg

If you have to ask those questions, the job is above your pay grade...

--
The fastest way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 9:59:25 AM UTC-4, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 7/22/18 4:10 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Which is best for dropping the transmission?

Do you remove the crossmember, the bracket, or just the transmission mount?
* Crossmember http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6290082bracket03.jpg
* Bracket http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4222146bracket02.jpg
* Mount http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6137530bracket01.jpg

Also, do you locktite the bolts when you re-install? (What color?)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9054142locktite01.jpg

If you have to ask those questions, the job is above your pay grade...

--
The fastest way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Might also help to specify the make, model, year. When you know that,
there are plenty of resources from Bentley and similar manuals that are
typically available for purchase or at the library, to Youtube vidoes
showing it being done. I'd bet "removing XXXX model YYYY transmission"
would produce a lot of hits from people who have the vehicle and have
done it.

On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 08:10:10 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

Which is best for dropping the transmission?

Do you remove the crossmember, the bracket, or just the transmission mount?
* Crossmember http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6290082bracket03.jpg
* Bracket http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4222146bracket02.jpg
* Mount http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6137530bracket01.jpg


What is the risk off the tranny falling on you?

Also, do you locktite the bolts when you re-install? (What color?)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9054142locktite01.jpg

The bolts have a torque range. Torque 'em and forget it.

On 22 Jul 2018 09:18:06 GMT, Oren wrote:

What is the risk off the tranny falling on you?

Also, do you locktite the bolts when you re-install? (What color?)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9054142locktite01.jpg

The bolts have a torque range. Torque 'em and forget it.

I found out that almost nobody uses locktite on transmission bolts.
Flywheel yes. Transmission no.

I still might locktite it though, just because it's hard to get to the
upper 17mm transmission bolts on the bell housing (I had to use a series of
half-inch extensions 30" long with a swivel as the 3/8" extensions just
twisted more than a quarter turn and were useless).

The blue is the locktite I'll buy (I generally never use the stuff but I've
never done a transmission before - but I've done everything else that
people do as I don't think I've been to a mechanic in two decades and my
cars are all that old).
http://www.wdarc.org/Loctite%20Guide.pdf

I was hoping for more advice here than "if you don't know, then you should"
though. Sigh.

Anyway, as for the colors,
Blue is just help it from coming loose where proper torquing does the work.
Red is for permanent install, hard to come off
Green is for use on nuts and bolts that are already installed

This guide to locktite seems useful.
http://www.loctite.com.au/aue/conten...5_Approved.pdf

On 07/22/2018 12:37 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Anyway, as for the colors,
Blue is just help it from coming loose where proper torquing does the work.
Red is for permanent install, hard to come off
Green is for use on nuts and bolts that are already installed

If you're going to use any, blue is the way to go or the next time you
remove the transmission you'll be in there with a torch heating up the
bolts to soften the red.

I have never used LocTite on transmission, bellhousing, or pressure
plate fasteners.

On 7/22/2018 4:07 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/22/2018 12:37 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Anyway, as for the colors,
Blue is just help it from coming loose where proper torquing does the
work.
Red is for permanent install, hard to come off
Green is for use on nuts and bolts that are already installed

If you're going to use any, blue is the way to go or the next time you
remove the transmission you'll be in there with a torch heating up the
bolts to soften the red.

I have never used LocTite on transmission, bellhousing, or pressure
plate fasteners.

* But damn sure on the nut that holds the compensator sprocket to the
crankshaft on your Harley ...

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety .
Get off my lawn !

On 22 Jul 2018 14:20:55 GMT, Terry Coombs wrote:

I have never used LocTite on transmission, bellhousing, or pressure
plate fasteners.

* But damn sure on the nut that holds the compensator sprocket to the
crankshaft on your Harley ...

Thanks for the locktite advice, where I never use it and I've done a decent
amount of work (cooling systems, alternators, belts, tensioners, etc.)
where I never before ran into bolts that needed 30 inches of extension to
get to, so I'll locktite blue them sparingly.

I always buy the tools I need, where right now, I can't think of the tool
that I need, but whatever it is, I need it.

How on earth do you get the transmission to back away from the engine?
I can't budge the thing! It's in neutral. I'm positive all the bolts are
off. I'm only somewhat positive that it's level because you can't really
easily tell, but it's close enough as I can wiggle it back and forth. If
it's hanging up on something, I don't see what. I just can't get any
rearward force on that transmission. What tool does that?

Here are some pictures showing that it seems to be hanging up on the upper
dowel pin, where the lower dowel pin is already out.

This is the driver side lower dowel pin, which is already out:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7254379bellhousing01.jpg
This is the same view showing that the tranmission "appears" level:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6205540bellhousing02.jpg
This is the passenger side where the dowel pin can be seen up high:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5277197bellhousing03.jpg
I'm not sure where to place the jack but it's at the transmission waist:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1315488bellhousing04.jpg

The tool I need is a tool to back the transmission away from the engine.
What tool is that?

On 07/22/2018 03:20 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:

But damn sure on the nut that holds the compensator sprocket to the
crankshaft on your Harley ...

Luckily I haven't had to go there yet. I didn't replace the clutch
throwout bearing a few years ago but that's no big deal.

Grant me the knowledge to put LocTite on the things shouldn't come
apart, Never-Seez on the things that should, and the wisdom to know the
difference.

On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 23:01:19 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 22 Jul 2018 14:20:55 GMT, Terry Coombs wrote:

I have never used LocTite on transmission, bellhousing, or pressure
plate fasteners.

* But damn sure on the nut that holds the compensator sprocket to the
crankshaft on your Harley ...

Thanks for the locktite advice, where I never use it and I've done a decent
amount of work (cooling systems, alternators, belts, tensioners, etc.)
where I never before ran into bolts that needed 30 inches of extension to
get to, so I'll locktite blue them sparingly.

I always buy the tools I need, where right now, I can't think of the tool
that I need, but whatever it is, I need it.

How on earth do you get the transmission to back away from the engine?
I can't budge the thing! It's in neutral. I'm positive all the bolts are
off. I'm only somewhat positive that it's level because you can't really
easily tell, but it's close enough as I can wiggle it back and forth. If
it's hanging up on something, I don't see what. I just can't get any
rearward force on that transmission. What tool does that?

Here are some pictures showing that it seems to be hanging up on the upper
dowel pin, where the lower dowel pin is already out.

This is the driver side lower dowel pin, which is already out:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7254379bellhousing01.jpg
This is the same view showing that the tranmission "appears" level:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6205540bellhousing02.jpg
This is the passenger side where the dowel pin can be seen up high:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5277197bellhousing03.jpg
I'm not sure where to place the jack but it's at the transmission waist:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1315488bellhousing04.jpg

The tool I need is a tool to back the transmission away from the engine.
What tool is that?
Generally a little pry bar.
Wiggle it so you get a bit of a gap somewherer - install the bar and
wiggle some more. Usually, IF you have all the bolts out, you will
find one of the dowel pins stuck. A bit of penetrating oil never
hurts. Looking at your pictures - you need to pull that sucker out
SQUARE, not all cock-eyed like you have it. Dowel pins will bind
tighter thanall get-out if you are even a couple degrees off square..
Put little bar in the gap close to the stuck pin and push the
transmission back to square - then wiggle the bar a wee bit and it
should pop tight out.

On 07/22/2018 05:01 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
The tool I need is a tool to back the transmission away from the engine.
What tool is that?

Are you supporting the engine?

On 22 Jul 2018 18:17:06 GMT, rbowman wrote:

Are you supporting the engine?

OH oh.... supporting the engine?
I could. I have plenty of floor jacks.

It's RWD though.
The vehicle is on four jack stands (two on the rear axle and two on front
frame points just inside the wheels).

I appreciate your question, and my answer is definitely "no", I am not
supporting the engine.

It didn't occur to me to support the engine so I have to ask why would that
help?

(I'm not at all against the idea - I just don't understand how it can
help?)

How would I support the engine so that it would help?

Arlen Holder wrote:
On 22 Jul 2018 18:17:06 GMT, rbowman wrote:

Are you supporting the engine?

OH oh.... supporting the engine?
I could. I have plenty of floor jacks.

It's RWD though.
The vehicle is on four jack stands (two on the rear axle and two on front
frame points just inside the wheels).

I appreciate your question, and my answer is definitely "no", I am not
supporting the engine.

It didn't occur to me to support the engine so I have to ask why would that
help?

(I'm not at all against the idea - I just don't understand how it can
help?)

How would I support the engine so that it would help?

Oh my.

You _must_ support the engine. Either via a block of wood under the oil
pan, a trans lift under the pan, or a bar with chain across the shock towers
or hood opening. If you dont, the engine will tilt. Bad things can happen
like something goes through the radiator or the exhaust manifold breaks,
wires get ripped off, etc.
The cross member - remove it. It will make life a lot easier.
You did not say what specific engine, vehicle, trans, etc, but without
removing it it is doubtful that that there will be enough room to back off
the trans and then tilt forward to drop it with out breaking off the tail shaft.
So why are you removing the trans? To R&R the clutch?
If so, then replace the throwout bearing while you are at it.
You will need a clutch plate centering tool.
Thread lock- I tend to use blue thread lock on small bolts and nuts
that get torqued to inch pounds but not on large bolts that get
torqued to 100+ foot pounds. A suggestion: replace any lock washers.

On 07/22/2018 08:58 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
On 22 Jul 2018 18:17:06 GMT, rbowman wrote:

Are you supporting the engine?

OH oh.... supporting the engine?
I could. I have plenty of floor jacks.

It's RWD though.
The vehicle is on four jack stands (two on the rear axle and two on front
frame points just inside the wheels).

I appreciate your question, and my answer is definitely "no", I am not
supporting the engine.

It didn't occur to me to support the engine so I have to ask why would that
help?

(I'm not at all against the idea - I just don't understand how it can
help?)

How would I support the engine so that it would help?


You took out the cross member under the transmission, right? Do the
engine mounts entirely support the engine, or do the transmission mounts
play a part? In other words, is the rear of the engine trying to rotate
downward and binding the transmission?

I don't know your vehicle, but usually a jack under the crankcase does
the trick. You're not trying to jack the engine up, just replace the
support provided by the transmission you're trying to remove.

On 07/22/2018 11:29 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
If so, then replace the throwout bearing while you are at it.

Good advice. I've replaced two throwout bearings on my F150. I did the
clutch and pressure plate too the second time around even though both
were serviceable. The latest throwout bearing is composite, not cast
iron, and hopefully will last. For the record, it wasn't the bearing
itself but the body binding on the transmission.

Wade Garrett posted for all of us...



On 7/22/18 4:10 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Which is best for dropping the transmission?

Do you remove the crossmember, the bracket, or just the transmission mount?
* Crossmember http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6290082bracket03.jpg
* Bracket http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4222146bracket02.jpg
* Mount http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6137530bracket01.jpg

Also, do you locktite the bolts when you re-install? (What color?)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9054142locktite01.jpg

If you have to ask those questions, the job is above your pay grade...

I believe this guy is the valve stem thread, harbor freight bead breaker,
tire spec, brake lining spec Ultrec nym shifter. If he would just post under
one name then I and more people would help him. Since I posted this the
insults and diversions will now start.

--
Tekkie

On 7/22/2018 6:10 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/22/2018 03:20 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:

* But damn sure on the nut that holds the compensator sprocket to the
crankshaft on your Harley ...

Luckily I haven't had to go there yet. I didn't replace the clutch
throwout bearing a few years ago but that's no big deal.

Grant me the knowledge to put LocTite on the things shouldn't come
apart, Never-Seez on the things that should, and the wisdom to know
the difference.

Been there more than once on more than one bike . NOBODY puts a wrench
on my bike but me ... the 1990 Ultra recently got a total tranny rebuild
and new pistons/rings/valve tappets/top end gaskets plus a new primary
chain and comp sprocket set .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety .
Get off my lawn !

On 22 Jul 2018 22:29:00 GMT, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Oh my.

You _must_ support the engine. Either via a block of wood under the oil
pan, a trans lift under the pan, or a bar with chain across the shock towers
or hood opening. If you dont, the engine will tilt. Bad things can happen
like something goes through the radiator or the exhaust manifold breaks,
wires get ripped off, etc.
The cross member - remove it. It will make life a lot easier.
You did not say what specific engine, vehicle, trans, etc, but without
removing it it is doubtful that that there will be enough room to back off
the trans and then tilt forward to drop it with out breaking off the tail shaft.
So why are you removing the trans? To R&R the clutch?
If so, then replace the throwout bearing while you are at it.
You will need a clutch plate centering tool.
Thread lock- I tend to use blue thread lock on small bolts and nuts
that get torqued to inch pounds but not on large bolts that get
torqued to 100+ foot pounds. A suggestion: replace any lock washers.

To answer your question, I am now supporting the engine but I don't think
it needed to be supported since nobody else does that that I could figure
out. With the jack on the engine and the transmission out, I can move the
engine about 1/2 inch or even less, so that might be helpful when lining it
up for the reassembly though.

The cross member and the sway bar were removed, and I'm glad it did that
because you need as much room as possible the first time you do it.

The Aisin clutch kit from Rockauto came with five pieces:
a. Clutch plate
b. Diaphragm
c. Pilot bearing
d. Throwout bearing
e. Alignment tool

I am replacing the clutch where it was worn to the rivets.

I'm kind of stuck now on whether to remove the flywheel and get a new one
or have it machined (and replace the oil seal behind it) or just keep it
where it is (the bolts are on really tightly and I can't tell if it needs
to be machined or not).
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4230325sticking05.jpg

On 22 Jul 2018 16:11:43 GMT, Clare Snyder wrote:

Generally a little pry bar.
Wiggle it so you get a bit of a gap somewherer - install the bar and
wiggle some more. Usually, IF you have all the bolts out, you will
find one of the dowel pins stuck. A bit of penetrating oil never
hurts. Looking at your pictures - you need to pull that sucker out
SQUARE, not all cock-eyed like you have it. Dowel pins will bind
tighter thanall get-out if you are even a couple degrees off square..
Put little bar in the gap close to the stuck pin and push the
transmission back to square - then wiggle the bar a wee bit and it
should pop tight out.

Thanks everyone for the advice. The transmission is out of the vehicle.

The problem was that I had disconnected the exhaust bracket bolts, but the
entire bracket needed to be moved as it was what was holding up the
transmission from moving backward!

A 3rd bolt allows you to move the exhaust bracket away from the trans:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9617515sticking01.jpg

I bent this metal plate between the engine and the flywheel:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1845137sticking06.jpg

The shifter fork & throwout seems ok to me, but I can't really tell:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2978407sticking02.jpg

The engine seems off kilter to the pressure plate for some reason:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2755957sticking03.jpg

Definitely the springs that stick out most go toward the pressure plate:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2750346sticking04.jpg

A six-point socket won't work on flywheel bolts which are *tight*!
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7699843sticking07.jpg

How can you tell if the flywheel needs to be replaced or machined?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4230325sticking05.jpg

On 22 Jul 2018 23:09:49 GMT, rbowman wrote:

You took out the cross member under the transmission, right?

Yup. And I'm glad I did as you need all the room you can get the first time
you do this job, especially since the transmission jack is kind of big.

Do the
engine mounts entirely support the engine, or do the transmission mounts
play a part?

The engine is fully supported with the transmission out. Even so, I now
have a jack under it, just in case I want to move it upward to align things
on the replacement.

In other words, is the rear of the engine trying to rotate
downward and binding the transmission?

The problem was stupid. Really stupid. I am embarrassed. I removed the
exhaust bracket bolts (two of them) but I didnt' realize that the bracket,
even when not connected to the bell housing, was in the way of the bell
housing moving backward. I'm an idiot. It was all my fault.
I couldn't find a DIY that explained this as everyone has different exhaust
depending on federal versus cali and the engine most people have is
different.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9617515sticking01.jpg

I don't know your vehicle, but usually a jack under the crankcase does
the trick. You're not trying to jack the engine up, just replace the
support provided by the transmission you're trying to remove.

I have a jack under the engine now, but it's not needed for the engine.
It may be needed for adjusting angles for reassembly as the old diaphragm
(before I took it off the engine) seems off kilter when looking head (for
some reason).
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2755957sticking03.jpg

While I can see the shift fork and throwout bearing in the bell housing
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2978407sticking02.jpg

I haven't been able to see the pilot bearing or the rear oil seal.

Where is the pilot bearing? Is it under the throwout bearing?
Is the oil seal behind the flywheel?

I'm not sure if I can get that flywheel off as those bolts are tight and my
half-inch sockets are all only six point where you have to have 12 point:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7699843sticking07.jpg

How important do you think the flywheel machining or replacement is?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4230325sticking05.jpg

Arlen Holder wrote:
On 22 Jul 2018 23:09:49 GMT, rbowman wrote:

You took out the cross member under the transmission, right?

Yup. And I'm glad I did as you need all the room you can get the first time
you do this job, especially since the transmission jack is kind of big.

Do the
engine mounts entirely support the engine, or do the transmission mounts
play a part?

The engine is fully supported with the transmission out. Even so, I now
have a jack under it, just in case I want to move it upward to align things
on the replacement.

In other words, is the rear of the engine trying to rotate
downward and binding the transmission?

The problem was stupid. Really stupid. I am embarrassed. I removed the
exhaust bracket bolts (two of them) but I didnt' realize that the bracket,
even when not connected to the bell housing, was in the way of the bell
housing moving backward. I'm an idiot. It was all my fault.
I couldn't find a DIY that explained this as everyone has different exhaust
depending on federal versus cali and the engine most people have is
different.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9617515sticking01.jpg

I don't know your vehicle, but usually a jack under the crankcase does
the trick. You're not trying to jack the engine up, just replace the
support provided by the transmission you're trying to remove.

I have a jack under the engine now, but it's not needed for the engine.
It may be needed for adjusting angles for reassembly as the old diaphragm
(before I took it off the engine) seems off kilter when looking head (for
some reason).
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2755957sticking03.jpg

While I can see the shift fork and throwout bearing in the bell housing
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2978407sticking02.jpg

I haven't been able to see the pilot bearing or the rear oil seal.

Where is the pilot bearing? Is it under the throwout bearing?
Is the oil seal behind the flywheel?

I'm not sure if I can get that flywheel off as those bolts are tight and my
half-inch sockets are all only six point where you have to have 12 point:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7699843sticking07.jpg

How important do you think the flywheel machining or replacement is?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4230325sticking05.jpg


The pilot bearing is just a bushing in the end of the crank or flywheel.
The tip (about 1" or less) of the transmission's input shaft rests in
this bushing to support it from flexing. Visible after you remove
transmission and clutch plate and pressure plate. You'll need to use a
suitable puller attached to a slide hammer to get it out. If the one
already there looks ok, you can skip that and lightly grease it before
you install the new clutch. If it is badly worn out, the front bearings
in your tranny may be gone too.

Rear oil seal is a little more trouble. Need to remove the oil pan and
maybe even the rear crank main bearing. Again, if its not leaking, leave
it for the next overhaul.

Always replace the pressure plate and disc and the throwout bearing.
Often, if the friction plate hasn't worn down to where the rivets have
badly eaten up the flywheel, you don't need a new or regrind on the
flywheel. If the scoring or grooves are small, the new clutch plate will
wear in and work fine, although it will have slightly less lifetime
since the grooving takes up a tiny bit of it's thickness during break in.

A clutch is exactly the same type mechanism as a brake disk and rotor,
or brake shoes and drums. Use your experience there to guide you.

Judging when something must be replaced or reground is largely a matter
of experience, so you'll just have to go from there and learn from any
mistakes. There are no magic solutions.

Good luck.

On 7/23/18 2:40 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Wade Garrett posted for all of us...



On 7/22/18 4:10 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Which is best for dropping the transmission?

Do you remove the crossmember, the bracket, or just the transmission mount?
* Crossmember http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6290082bracket03.jpg
* Bracket http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4222146bracket02.jpg
* Mount http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6137530bracket01.jpg

Also, do you locktite the bolts when you re-install? (What color?)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9054142locktite01.jpg

If you have to ask those questions, the job is above your pay grade...

I believe this guy is the valve stem thread, harbor freight bead breaker,
tire spec, brake lining spec Ultrec nym shifter. If he would just post under
one name then I and more people would help him. Since I posted this the
insults and diversions will now start.

Yeah, he was offended by what I said and took a shot at me in another
newsgroup over it. I was really just trying to help the guy out.

Asking those rookie questions before starting the major repair he was
contemplating, I had visions of him mangling his hand, crushing his
fingers, or a heavy overhead assembly slipping as he tried to remove it
and dropping down onto him cracking his skull or crushing his chest.

When he sees this post- he'll probably go apoplectic!

--
If it is not right, do not do it; if it is not true, do not say it.
- Marcus Aurelius

On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 7:01:30 PM UTC-4, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 7/23/18 2:40 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Wade Garrett posted for all of us...



On 7/22/18 4:10 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Which is best for dropping the transmission?

Do you remove the crossmember, the bracket, or just the transmission mount?
* Crossmember http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6290082bracket03.jpg
* Bracket http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4222146bracket02.jpg
* Mount http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6137530bracket01.jpg

Also, do you locktite the bolts when you re-install? (What color?)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9054142locktite01.jpg

If you have to ask those questions, the job is above your pay grade...

I believe this guy is the valve stem thread, harbor freight bead breaker,
tire spec, brake lining spec Ultrec nym shifter. If he would just post under
one name then I and more people would help him. Since I posted this the
insults and diversions will now start.

Yeah, he was offended by what I said and took a shot at me in another
newsgroup over it. I was really just trying to help the guy out.

Asking those rookie questions before starting the major repair he was
contemplating, I had visions of him mangling his hand, crushing his
fingers, or a heavy overhead assembly slipping as he tried to remove it
and dropping down onto him cracking his skull or crushing his chest.

When he sees this post- he'll probably go apoplectic!

I didn't see any interest in my suggestion, which was one of the first,
which was that there are repair manuals out there Haynes, Bentley, etc,
probably available at the local library and even better, Youtube videos
of guys doing the actual repair. The manuals generally have the steps,
what needs to be removed, the order, whether the bolts need locktite
or not, etc. The videos show guys doing it, shortcuts, possibly easier
ways of doing it, what to watch out for, what tools to use, etc.
Those manuals and videos have saved me countless hours on things like how
to pull a door panel or how to change a chain in a transfer case on
a particular vehicle. Seems a better idea than asking people here
without even stating what vehicle it is, but to each his own.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:51:55 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 22 Jul 2018 22:29:00 GMT, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Oh my.

You _must_ support the engine. Either via a block of wood under the oil
pan, a trans lift under the pan, or a bar with chain across the shock towers
or hood opening. If you dont, the engine will tilt. Bad things can happen
like something goes through the radiator or the exhaust manifold breaks,
wires get ripped off, etc.
The cross member - remove it. It will make life a lot easier.
You did not say what specific engine, vehicle, trans, etc, but without
removing it it is doubtful that that there will be enough room to back off
the trans and then tilt forward to drop it with out breaking off the tail shaft.
So why are you removing the trans? To R&R the clutch?
If so, then replace the throwout bearing while you are at it.
You will need a clutch plate centering tool.
Thread lock- I tend to use blue thread lock on small bolts and nuts
that get torqued to inch pounds but not on large bolts that get
torqued to 100+ foot pounds. A suggestion: replace any lock washers.

To answer your question, I am now supporting the engine but I don't think
it needed to be supported since nobody else does that that I could figure
out. With the jack on the engine and the transmission out, I can move the
engine about 1/2 inch or even less, so that might be helpful when lining it
up for the reassembly though.

The cross member and the sway bar were removed, and I'm glad it did that
because you need as much room as possible the first time you do it.

The Aisin clutch kit from Rockauto came with five pieces:
a. Clutch plate
b. Diaphragm
c. Pilot bearing
d. Throwout bearing
e. Alignment tool

I am replacing the clutch where it was worn to the rivets.

I'm kind of stuck now on whether to remove the flywheel and get a new one
or have it machined (and replace the oil seal behind it) or just keep it
where it is (the bolts are on really tightly and I can't tell if it needs
to be machined or not).
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4230325sticking05.jpg


Man, that is an OBVIOUS case of an overheated and hard spotted
flywheel. Someone needs to learn to drive a standard transmission!!!.
The flywheel absolutely needs to be machined, at the very least.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 17:44:36 -0500, Hank Rogers
wrote:

Bla Bla Bla

Rear oil seal is a little more trouble. Need to remove the oil pan and
maybe even the rear crank main bearing. Again, if its not leaking, leave
it for the next overhaul.

Not true. When the flywheel is off the rear main seal replacement is
a 10 minute job.

Always replace the pressure plate and disc and the throwout bearing.
Often, if the friction plate hasn't worn down to where the rivets have
badly eaten up the flywheel, you don't need a new or regrind on the
flywheel. If the scoring or grooves are small, the new clutch plate will
wear in and work fine, although it will have slightly less lifetime
since the grooving takes up a tiny bit of it's thickness during break in.

From the picture supplied, a new clutch will chatter like an angry
chipmunk. ANd NEVER take a chance on the pilot bearing - particularly
if it is a "rolling element" bearing. - which virtually EVERY Toyota
pilot bearing is.

A clutch is exactly the same type mechanism as a brake disk and rotor,
or brake shoes and drums. Use your experience there to guide you.

He has none

Judging when something must be replaced or reground is largely a matter
of experience, so you'll just have to go from there and learn from any
mistakes. There are no magic solutions.

No, but there is "generally accepted practice"
Good luck.

If he follows your instructions he'll need it.

On 7/23/2018 5:44 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
Arlen Holder wrote:
On 22 Jul 2018 23:09:49 GMT, rbowman wrote:

You took out the cross member under the transmission, right?

Yup. And I'm glad I did as you need all the room you can get the
first time
you do this job, especially since the transmission jack is kind of big.

Â* Do the
engine mounts entirely support the engine, or do the transmission
mounts
play a part?

The engine is fully supported with the transmission out. Even so, I now
have a jack under it, just in case I want to move it upward to align
things
on the replacement.

In other words, is the rear of the engine trying to rotate
downward and binding the transmission?

The problem was stupid. Really stupid. I am embarrassed. I removed the
exhaust bracket bolts (two of them) but I didnt' realize that the
bracket,
even when not connected to the bell housing, was in the way of the bell
housing moving backward. I'm an idiot. It was all my fault.
I couldn't find a DIY that explained this as everyone has different
exhaust
depending on federal versus cali and the engine most people have is
different.
Â* http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9617515sticking01.jpg

I don't know your vehicle, but usually a jack under the crankcase does
the trick. You're not trying to jack the engine up, just replace the
support provided by the transmission you're trying to remove.

I have a jack under the engine now, but it's not needed for the engine.
It may be needed for adjusting angles for reassembly as the old
diaphragm
(before I took it off the engine) seems off kilter when looking head
(for
some reason).
Â* http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2755957sticking03.jpg

While I can see the shift fork and throwout bearing in the bell housing
Â* http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2978407sticking02.jpg

I haven't been able to see the pilot bearing or the rear oil seal.

Where is the pilot bearing? Is it under the throwout bearing?
Is the oil seal behind the flywheel?

I'm not sure if I can get that flywheel off as those bolts are tight
and my
half-inch sockets are all only six point where you have to have 12
point:
Â* http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7699843sticking07.jpg

How important do you think the flywheel machining or replacement is?
Â* http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4230325sticking05.jpg


The pilot bearing is just a bushing in the end of the crank or
flywheel. The tip (about 1" or less) of the transmission's input shaft
rests in this bushing to support it from flexing. Visible after you
remove transmission and clutch plate and pressure plate. You'll need
to use a suitable puller attached to a slide hammer to get it out. If
the one already there looks ok, you can skip that and lightly grease
it before you install the new clutch. If it is badly worn out, the
front bearings in your tranny may be gone too.

Rear oil seal is a little more trouble. Need to remove the oil pan and
maybe even the rear crank main bearing. Again, if its not leaking,
leave it for the next overhaul.

Always replace the pressure plate and disc and the throwout bearing.
Often, if the friction plate hasn't worn down to where the rivets have
badly eaten up the flywheel, you don't need a new or regrind on the
flywheel. If the scoring or grooves are small, the new clutch plate
will wear in and work fine, although it will have slightly less
lifetime since the grooving takes up a tiny bit of it's thickness
during break in.

A clutch is exactly the same type mechanism as a brake disk and rotor,
or brake shoes and drums. Use your experience there to guide you.

Judging when something must be replaced or reground is largely a
matter of experience, so you'll just have to go from there and learn
from any mistakes. There are no magic solutions.

Good luck.






Â* Pilot bushings are most easily removed by filling them with grease ,
then using a round bar that fits snugly to apply hydraulic pressure -
put one end of that round bar in the bushing and smack the other end
with a hammer . A big one works better ... the bushing will pop right out .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety .
Get off my lawn !

On 23 Jul 2018 18:48:58 GMT, Clare Snyder wrote:

Man, that is an OBVIOUS case of an overheated and hard spotted
flywheel. Someone needs to learn to drive a standard transmission!!!.
The flywheel absolutely needs to be machined, at the very least.

Thanks Clare, as I appreciate your help given this is my first clutch
repair where I have nobody to help me here who knows anything about
transmissions.

I'll snap before-and-after photos for you since you've been so helpful.

I saw those hard spots and will take your advice (I'm not the driver).
Had I thought ahead, I would have bought an OEM flywheel from Camelback
Toyota in Arizona (who generally has the best dealer price).

Machining is $60 at a local shop (I could only find one shop that does it).

A new flywheel at the Toyota dealer is $375.27 (PN 13405-75040).
https://partsfactory.camelbacktoyota.com/oem-parts/toyota-flywheel-1340575040/

O'Reillys can get them for me at $81.74 out the door for their
"PowerTorque" brand. I generally buy dealer online, but I don't have the
time for that now. Do you have any info on the O'Reilly brand? (The counter
guy says he thinks it's actually a Sachs because he said the clutch is
Sachs.)

Autozone has a "BrutePower" brand for $82 out the door.
A local shop has a "LUK" brand flywheel for $95 out the door.

Would you resurface or buy new?
I'm inclined to buy new, but the generally I'd get the Toyota OEM brand.
But the price above is a *discount* Internet price, so it's gonna be $500
at the local dealer and they generally the local Toyota dealer almost never
has anything in stock I've ever needed from them.

You used to work at Toyota I think.
Do you have experience with any of the non-OEM brands above?

Thanks for your help.

On 23 Jul 2018 18:55:42 GMT, Clare Snyder wrote:

Not true. When the flywheel is off the rear main seal replacement is
a 10 minute job.

I'll take your advice Clare. A new rear main seal is $20 at the local
Toyota dealer, who has it in stock, so I'll pick one up tomorrow.

I think people recommend Toyota FIPG instead of the paper gaskets for it
too. It's not leaking, but, it's old so I'll take your advice since you
know this stuff best on this ng.

From the picture supplied, a new clutch will chatter like an angry
chipmunk. ANd NEVER take a chance on the pilot bearing - particularly
if it is a "rolling element" bearing. - which virtually EVERY Toyota
pilot bearing is.

Thanks for that information Clare as I have the Rockauto Aisin Kit CKT-051:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7696401clitchkit01.jpg
.. Aisin disc stamped DTX-137L & 6H26
.. Aisin diaphragm stamped Aisin 17.01.20 & CTX-106
.. Koyo pilot molded 6201 RS ROM 017 & Koyo 6201 RS ROM 057
.. Koyo pilot box printed 6201RSC3 & PBT-002
.. Koyo release stamped Koyo Japan 49H & RCT356SA9
.. Koyo release box printed RBT-004 & RCT356SA9 & FG Gen M1412
.. Plastic alignment tool stamped USA 11

Use your experience there to guide you.

He has none

I readily admit I've never done a clutch in my life.
You've done a million.

That's why I'm asking for your advice.

No, but there is "generally accepted practice"

I'll follow your advice as you know what you're talking about.
I appreciate Hank's advice where you're right on the rear oil seal.

If he follows your instructions he'll need it.
I'll follow your advice, Clare.

I have the torque specs for the bell housing and flywheel bolts, but I
wonder if you recommend any loktite (and what color) for the flywheel?

I'll use loktite blue everywhere else that needs it, but this is the first
time I've ever even seen a flywheel.

Arlen Holder wrote:
On 22 Jul 2018 22:29:00 GMT, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Oh my.

You _must_ support the engine. Either via a block of wood under the oil
pan, a trans lift under the pan, or a bar with chain across the shock towers
or hood opening. If you dont, the engine will tilt. Bad things can happen
like something goes through the radiator or the exhaust manifold breaks,
wires get ripped off, etc.
The cross member - remove it. It will make life a lot easier.
You did not say what specific engine, vehicle, trans, etc, but without
removing it it is doubtful that that there will be enough room to back off
the trans and then tilt forward to drop it with out breaking off the tail shaft.
So why are you removing the trans? To R&R the clutch?
If so, then replace the throwout bearing while you are at it.
You will need a clutch plate centering tool.
Thread lock- I tend to use blue thread lock on small bolts and nuts
that get torqued to inch pounds but not on large bolts that get
torqued to 100+ foot pounds. A suggestion: replace any lock washers.

To answer your question, I am now supporting the engine but I don't think
it needed to be supported since nobody else does that that I could figure
out. With the jack on the engine and the transmission out, I can move the
engine about 1/2 inch or even less, so that might be helpful when lining it
up for the reassembly though.

The cross member and the sway bar were removed, and I'm glad it did that
because you need as much room as possible the first time you do it.

The Aisin clutch kit from Rockauto came with five pieces:
a. Clutch plate
b. Diaphragm
c. Pilot bearing
d. Throwout bearing
e. Alignment tool

I am replacing the clutch where it was worn to the rivets.

I'm kind of stuck now on whether to remove the flywheel and get a new one
or have it machined (and replace the oil seal behind it) or just keep it
where it is (the bolts are on really tightly and I can't tell if it needs
to be machined or not).
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4230325sticking05.jpg

Nice clutch kit.
From the photo it looks like it got pretty hot.
I would have it machined or replaced.
Rent an electric impact wrench and socket if you need to.

On 23 Jul 2018 22:37:05 GMT, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Nice clutch kit.

I needed 30 inches of 1/2" extension for the two top 17mm bolt
but those extensions you saw didn't come with the Aisin clutch kit.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7378316clutch01.jpg

The Rockauto Aisin clutch kit only comes with these 5 parts.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2998436clutch02.jpg

From the photo it looks like it got pretty hot.

It was slipping for about 30 to 50 miles and stinking up a bit also.

I would have it machined or replaced.

Machining is $60, replacement is in stock at one dealer at $716 (PN
13405-75040) plus $66.23 in sales tax, which makes that dealer $782.23.
When I gasped, the counter guy said he could take 20% off, which I didn't
know that dealers did discounts.

Calling another dealer, they didn't have it in stock but it was $588 plus
$54.39 in sales tax, which makes it 642.39.

At the local parts stores, a LUK flywheel is $95, O'Reillys PowerTorque
flywheel is $81.74, and the Autozone BrutePower flywheel is $82.

It always amazes me that the dealer parts guys don't know what brand
anything is, so I can't tell you who makes the Toyota flywheel but my
choice is one of the others, based on sheer price alone.

Rent an electric impact wrench and socket if you need to.

I am about to try now, where I have a 1/2 inch motorocycle hand impact
driver, but I don't have 1/2 inch 12-point sockets, so I will try with a
1/2-inch to 3/8-inch adaptor but that seems like a kludge.

If that doesn't work, when I pick up the flywheel, I'll buy some 1/2 inch
12-point impact sockets (if they even exist).

I do have a 220VAC 20-gallon 120 psi compressor and an air impact gun but
the gun sucks and is only good for spinning off already loose bolts. I
don't know why it sucks. It never worked. I bought it 20 years ago, and it
just takes up space in my toolbox. I don't know how to pick a good one at a
good price where price is important because I almost never use the air
impact gun.

Maybe I'll buy an air impact gun, but since I need it today, I can only
shop Home Depot where I don't even know what they sell there or if it's any
good. Clearly the air impact gun I have sucks, so you can get sucky ones
for sure, and who wants that.

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...



On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:51:55 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 22 Jul 2018 22:29:00 GMT, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Oh my.

You _must_ support the engine. Either via a block of wood under the oil
pan, a trans lift under the pan, or a bar with chain across the shock towers
or hood opening. If you dont, the engine will tilt. Bad things can happen
like something goes through the radiator or the exhaust manifold breaks,
wires get ripped off, etc.
The cross member - remove it. It will make life a lot easier.
You did not say what specific engine, vehicle, trans, etc, but without
removing it it is doubtful that that there will be enough room to back off
the trans and then tilt forward to drop it with out breaking off the tail shaft.
So why are you removing the trans? To R&R the clutch?
If so, then replace the throwout bearing while you are at it.
You will need a clutch plate centering tool.
Thread lock- I tend to use blue thread lock on small bolts and nuts
that get torqued to inch pounds but not on large bolts that get
torqued to 100+ foot pounds. A suggestion: replace any lock washers.

To answer your question, I am now supporting the engine but I don't think
it needed to be supported since nobody else does that that I could figure
out. With the jack on the engine and the transmission out, I can move the
engine about 1/2 inch or even less, so that might be helpful when lining it
up for the reassembly though.

The cross member and the sway bar were removed, and I'm glad it did that
because you need as much room as possible the first time you do it.

The Aisin clutch kit from Rockauto came with five pieces:
a. Clutch plate
b. Diaphragm
c. Pilot bearing
d. Throwout bearing
e. Alignment tool

I am replacing the clutch where it was worn to the rivets.

I'm kind of stuck now on whether to remove the flywheel and get a new one
or have it machined (and replace the oil seal behind it) or just keep it
where it is (the bolts are on really tightly and I can't tell if it needs
to be machined or not).
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4230325sticking05.jpg


Man, that is an OBVIOUS case of an overheated and hard spotted
flywheel. Someone needs to learn to drive a standard transmission!!!.
The flywheel absolutely needs to be machined, at the very least.

+500 on that! I don't know if machining will take all that out with any life
left in it. He stated he was down to the rivets so who knows what else...

--
Tekkie

Arlen Holder posted for all of us...



On 23 Jul 2018 22:37:05 GMT, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Nice clutch kit.

I needed 30 inches of 1/2" extension for the two top 17mm bolt
but those extensions you saw didn't come with the Aisin clutch kit.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7378316clutch01.jpg

The Rockauto Aisin clutch kit only comes with these 5 parts.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2998436clutch02.jpg

From the photo it looks like it got pretty hot.

It was slipping for about 30 to 50 miles and stinking up a bit also.

I would have it machined or replaced.

Machining is $60, replacement is in stock at one dealer at $716 (PN
13405-75040) plus $66.23 in sales tax, which makes that dealer $782.23.
When I gasped, the counter guy said he could take 20% off, which I didn't
know that dealers did discounts.

Calling another dealer, they didn't have it in stock but it was $588 plus
$54.39 in sales tax, which makes it 642.39.

At the local parts stores, a LUK flywheel is $95, O'Reillys PowerTorque
flywheel is $81.74, and the Autozone BrutePower flywheel is $82.

It always amazes me that the dealer parts guys don't know what brand
anything is, so I can't tell you who makes the Toyota flywheel but my
choice is one of the others, based on sheer price alone.

Rent an electric impact wrench and socket if you need to.

I am about to try now, where I have a 1/2 inch motorocycle hand impact
driver, but I don't have 1/2 inch 12-point sockets, so I will try with a
1/2-inch to 3/8-inch adaptor but that seems like a kludge.

If that doesn't work, when I pick up the flywheel, I'll buy some 1/2 inch
12-point impact sockets (if they even exist).

I do have a 220VAC 20-gallon 120 psi compressor and an air impact gun but
the gun sucks and is only good for spinning off already loose bolts. I
don't know why it sucks. It never worked. I bought it 20 years ago, and it
just takes up space in my toolbox. I don't know how to pick a good one at a
good price where price is important because I almost never use the air
impact gun.

Maybe I'll buy an air impact gun, but since I need it today, I can only
shop Home Depot where I don't even know what they sell there or if it's any
good. Clearly the air impact gun I have sucks, so you can get sucky ones
for sure, and who wants that.

You want to buy 6 point impact sockets...

IF you hold the flywheel you MAY be able to get it of with a cheater.

Electric impacts have improved. Your present air impact may be weak because
your setup cannot deliver enough air at sufficient pressure.

--
Tekkie

Arlen Holder posted for all of us...



On 23 Jul 2018 18:55:42 GMT, Clare Snyder wrote:

Not true. When the flywheel is off the rear main seal replacement is
a 10 minute job.

I'll take your advice Clare. A new rear main seal is $20 at the local
Toyota dealer, who has it in stock, so I'll pick one up tomorrow.

I think people recommend Toyota FIPG instead of the paper gaskets for it
too. It's not leaking, but, it's old so I'll take your advice since you
know this stuff best on this ng.

From the picture supplied, a new clutch will chatter like an angry
chipmunk. ANd NEVER take a chance on the pilot bearing - particularly
if it is a "rolling element" bearing. - which virtually EVERY Toyota
pilot bearing is.

Thanks for that information Clare as I have the Rockauto Aisin Kit CKT-051:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7696401clitchkit01.jpg
. Aisin disc stamped DTX-137L & 6H26
. Aisin diaphragm stamped Aisin 17.01.20 & CTX-106
. Koyo pilot molded 6201 RS ROM 017 & Koyo 6201 RS ROM 057
. Koyo pilot box printed 6201RSC3 & PBT-002
. Koyo release stamped Koyo Japan 49H & RCT356SA9
. Koyo release box printed RBT-004 & RCT356SA9 & FG Gen M1412
. Plastic alignment tool stamped USA 11

Use your experience there to guide you.

He has none

I readily admit I've never done a clutch in my life.
You've done a million.

That's why I'm asking for your advice.

No, but there is "generally accepted practice"

I'll follow your advice as you know what you're talking about.
I appreciate Hank's advice where you're right on the rear oil seal.

If he follows your instructions he'll need it.
I'll follow your advice, Clare.

I have the torque specs for the bell housing and flywheel bolts, but I
wonder if you recommend any loktite (and what color) for the flywheel?

I'll use loktite blue everywhere else that needs it, but this is the first
time I've ever even seen a flywheel.

You may need a puller to get the old pilot bushing out.

--
Tekkie

On 23 Jul 2018 18:59:38 GMT, Terry Coombs wrote:

* Pilot bushings are most easily removed by filling them with grease ,
then using a round bar that fits snugly to apply hydraulic pressure -
put one end of that round bar in the bushing and smack the other end
with a hammer . A big one works better ... the bushing will pop right out .

Thanks for that helpful advice Terry.

Since I've never done this, I need advice on even the simplest things if
I've never encountered them before.

For bearings, I have plenty of harmonic balancer pullers and gear pullers
but all of them latch to the OUTSIDE of a gear, hence they won't work on
this bearing because there's nothing to hold on to on the outside.

I didn't try the packed grease trick yet, but since I have to pick up the
new flywheel and rear engine seal anyway, I may as well pick up a bearing
puller at Home Depot or the auto parts store to get this pilot bearing out.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4808619transmission01.jpg

The main question I have is for Clare, which is how does that rear main
seal come out, and would he use the paper gasket that supposedly comes with
it or Toyota FIPG instead (or both)?

On 24 Jul 2018 12:08:15 GMT, Tekkie® wrote:

You want to buy 6 point impact sockets...

The problem with that is that the flywheel bolts are 12 point.

IF you hold the flywheel you MAY be able to get it of with a cheater.

The flywheel is off. I used a lock stop and a normal 1/2 inch breaker bar.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1744336transmission02.jpg

Electric impacts have improved. Your present air impact may be weak because
your setup cannot deliver enough air at sufficient pressure.

I first tried the hand impact tool, and it failed.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1244980flywheel04.jpg

Then I tried the air-impact gun, and it failed even worse.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4748611flywheel02.jpg

The air pressure is 120psi and the hose is 50 feet of 1/2 inch line, and
the setting was set to 4 (smallest hole and to 1 biggest hole - as I'm not
sure which is high pressure and which is low pressure) and it didn't do a
thing (it never does, which is why I never use it).

It's a Universal Tool UT 2210:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5614055flywheel03.jpg

Later, not today, I'll post a thread asking for a specific gun that I can
buy on the net that actually works that isn't too expensive (because I
almost never use a gun so it has to pay for itself with very few uses).

What worked is the old school method, which only took a little more effort:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1291741flywheel01.jpg

What I need to ask Clare is how to get to that rear engine seal.
Do I take out all those bolts around the pilot bearing area?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4808619transmission01.jpg

On 24 Jul 2018 12:00:31 GMT, Tekkie® wrote:

+500 on that! I don't know if machining will take all that out with any life
left in it. He stated he was down to the rivets so who knows what else...

The rivets were worn only on the side facing the transmission, not the side
facing the flywheel.

Resurfacing the flywheel doesn't seem worth it since it's $60 to resurface
today and you never know how deeply the guy has to go (it was resurfaced
once before about 10 years ago) and you don't know if he does a good job or
not (but he probably does a great job as he's recommended by others).

So I'm buying a new flywheel, and, in fact, the old one is already off.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4808619transmission01.jpg

I was hoping Clare could recommend a flywheel given the information I
provided (Toyota is as high as $700 while the parts stores are all below
$100).

On 07/23/2018 03:59 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
The problem was stupid. Really stupid. I am embarrassed. I removed the
exhaust bracket bolts (two of them) but I didnt' realize that the bracket,
even when not connected to the bell housing, was in the way of the bell
housing moving backward. I'm an idiot. It was all my fault.

That's not as bad as suddenly realizing the transmission is hanging from
the speedometer cable... I doubt they exist anymore so make that some
sort of sensor wiring.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 03:47:20 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 23 Jul 2018 18:48:58 GMT, Clare Snyder wrote:

Man, that is an OBVIOUS case of an overheated and hard spotted
flywheel. Someone needs to learn to drive a standard transmission!!!.
The flywheel absolutely needs to be machined, at the very least.

Thanks Clare, as I appreciate your help given this is my first clutch
repair where I have nobody to help me here who knows anything about
transmissions.

I'll snap before-and-after photos for you since you've been so helpful.

I saw those hard spots and will take your advice (I'm not the driver).
Had I thought ahead, I would have bought an OEM flywheel from Camelback
Toyota in Arizona (who generally has the best dealer price).

Machining is $60 at a local shop (I could only find one shop that does it).

A new flywheel at the Toyota dealer is $375.27 (PN 13405-75040).
https://partsfactory.camelbacktoyota.com/oem-parts/toyota-flywheel-1340575040/

O'Reillys can get them for me at $81.74 out the door for their
"PowerTorque" brand. I generally buy dealer online, but I don't have the
time for that now. Do you have any info on the O'Reilly brand? (The counter
guy says he thinks it's actually a Sachs because he said the clutch is
Sachs.)

Autozone has a "BrutePower" brand for $82 out the door.
A local shop has a "LUK" brand flywheel for $95 out the door.

Would you resurface or buy new?
I'm inclined to buy new, but the generally I'd get the Toyota OEM brand.
But the price above is a *discount* Internet price, so it's gonna be $500
at the local dealer and they generally the local Toyota dealer almost never
has anything in stock I've ever needed from them.

You used to work at Toyota I think.
Do you have experience with any of the non-OEM brands above?

Thanks for your help.
No experience with aftermarket flywheels or O-Reillys. Sachs or LUK
should bothbe good. Both are OEM manufacturers for many european
makers.

The flywheel looks bad enough that for the difference between $60 to
machine and $95 for a new LUK there shouldn't be any question.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:16:09 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 24 Jul 2018 12:08:15 GMT, Tekkie® wrote:

You want to buy 6 point impact sockets...

The problem with that is that the flywheel bolts are 12 point.

IF you hold the flywheel you MAY be able to get it of with a cheater.

The flywheel is off. I used a lock stop and a normal 1/2 inch breaker bar.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1744336transmission02.jpg

Electric impacts have improved. Your present air impact may be weak because
your setup cannot deliver enough air at sufficient pressure.

I first tried the hand impact tool, and it failed.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1244980flywheel04.jpg

Then I tried the air-impact gun, and it failed even worse.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4748611flywheel02.jpg

The air pressure is 120psi and the hose is 50 feet of 1/2 inch line, and
the setting was set to 4 (smallest hole and to 1 biggest hole - as I'm not
sure which is high pressure and which is low pressure) and it didn't do a
thing (it never does, which is why I never use it).

It's a Universal Tool UT 2210:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5614055flywheel03.jpg

Later, not today, I'll post a thread asking for a specific gun that I can
buy on the net that actually works that isn't too expensive (because I
almost never use a gun so it has to pay for itself with very few uses).

What worked is the old school method, which only took a little more effort:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1291741flywheel01.jpg

What I need to ask Clare is how to get to that rear engine seal.
Do I take out all those bolts around the pilot bearing area?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4808619transmission01.jpg
Drive a stout sheet metal screw into the seal and pop it out wit
sonething like a claw hammer. Then grease the (new) seal, inside and
out, and carefully drive it in. and DEFINITELY replace that pilot
bearing!!!!!!! You can rent a pilot bearing puller slide hammer from
most parts suppliers with a tool rental program. If it doesn't sound
like a cement mixer now, it soon will - - - -

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 04:09:27 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 23 Jul 2018 18:55:42 GMT, Clare Snyder wrote:

Not true. When the flywheel is off the rear main seal replacement is
a 10 minute job.

I'll take your advice Clare. A new rear main seal is $20 at the local
Toyota dealer, who has it in stock, so I'll pick one up tomorrow.

I think people recommend Toyota FIPG instead of the paper gaskets for it
too. It's not leaking, but, it's old so I'll take your advice since you
know this stuff best on this ng.

From the picture supplied, a new clutch will chatter like an angry
chipmunk. ANd NEVER take a chance on the pilot bearing - particularly
if it is a "rolling element" bearing. - which virtually EVERY Toyota
pilot bearing is.

Thanks for that information Clare as I have the Rockauto Aisin Kit CKT-051:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7696401clitchkit01.jpg
. Aisin disc stamped DTX-137L & 6H26
. Aisin diaphragm stamped Aisin 17.01.20 & CTX-106
. Koyo pilot molded 6201 RS ROM 017 & Koyo 6201 RS ROM 057
. Koyo pilot box printed 6201RSC3 & PBT-002
. Koyo release stamped Koyo Japan 49H & RCT356SA9
. Koyo release box printed RBT-004 & RCT356SA9 & FG Gen M1412
. Plastic alignment tool stamped USA 11

Use your experience there to guide you.

He has none

I readily admit I've never done a clutch in my life.
You've done a million.

That's why I'm asking for your advice.

No, but there is "generally accepted practice"

I'll follow your advice as you know what you're talking about.
I appreciate Hank's advice where you're right on the rear oil seal.

If he follows your instructions he'll need it.
I'll follow your advice, Clare.

I have the torque specs for the bell housing and flywheel bolts, but I
wonder if you recommend any loktite (and what color) for the flywheel?

I'll use loktite blue everywhere else that needs it, but this is the first
time I've ever even seen a flywheel.
The OEM bolts have thradlocker on them. Clean the threads - both on
the bolt and in the holes - use the primer made for the threadlocker,
and use the medium strength locker (Blue)