On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 11:42:26 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 8:02:06 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 5:48:15 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 3:19:09 AM UTC-5, Bod wrote:
There is your "making America great again", in action. But heh, trade wars
are good and easy to win, right?

Last 30 years I watch so much moving away. Got a better idea ?

Greg

I was reading about all the other Harley overseas plants been in place well
before this.

Greg

The Hysterical Howling Progressive Liberal Leftist Commiecrat Moonbat Freaks are just trying to find a way to blame it on President Trump. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Observant Monster

Who would you blame then?
--
Bod

The Commiecrats who loaded the bureaucracy with their disciples who bury business with onerous regulation after costly regulation. Some bureaucrat who is not an elected official can write a regulation that carries the force of law and such "regulations" have driven many manufacturers to move their production to Asia where they don't have to put up with the costly nonsense. There is one federal agency called OSHA, Occupational Safety and Health Administration which has been the bane of business since its inception. Agents will inspect a manufacturing plant for safety violations but will usually find something trivial like a broken light switch cover and fine the manufacturer tens of thousands of dollars. Businesses like people will vote with their feet and move someplace where they're not constantly harassed. That's why businesses are leaving the Leftist utopia of Californiastan for business-friendly states. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Observant Monster

So you're saying that HD moving to another country has nothing to do
with Trump's tariffs, despite the company saying that it is?
--
Bod

Isn't a tariff usually put on something imported not exported? I don't recall reading anything about the government placing a tariff on exported Harley-Davidson products. Perhaps there are some foreign-made parts that Harley-Davidson is using that may be subject to a tariff? Perhaps the company should source everything from The USA so they can claim it's a completely American made bike? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Bike Monster

Again, if you're going to express opinions here, it would be a good idea to
understand the facts first. Not hard to do either, it's been all over the
news and maybe if you watched that instead of Looney Tunes, you'd learn..
Let;s review. Trump recently put new 25% tariffs on all steel and 10% on all
aluminum. The EU warned Trump that if he did it, they would retaliate.
Trump persisted, so the EU slapped new tariffs on many US products,
including HD bikes, whiskey, and jeans. If the bike is made outside the
USA, it's not subject to the new tariffs which are ~$2,300 a bike. So,
Harley is moving production for EU bound bikes out of the USA.

Similarly, Trump got 60 people laid off and another 500 going between
now and Labor Day at the last company in the USA that makes nails.
The steel tariffs made their nails so expensive, their orders have
dropped 80%, with customers now buying nails from overseas, mainly
China. So, it's a grand slam. Trump's tariff is laying off American
workers, the plant will close, while the new orders going to China
will increase the trade deficit. It takes a real moron to do that.

Thanks to the Commiecrats screwing with industry, there aren't as many steel mills in The USA anymore so perhaps this would be a good time for the American steel industry to come back.

The steel industry has been having troubles since the 50s, it's not an
issue of one party screwing anyone. Most of their trouble are the result
of the same things that brought down the US auto companies. They were fat,
dumb and happy and ignored what was happening around them. Foreign competitors
adopted new, far more efficient methods of making steel that cost less and
used less labor. US steel said screw that. US steel, like Detroit, had
union contracts with high labor costs. So, the inevitable happened.

And Trump isn't going to fix it. Steel tariffs were tried a decade ago and
while they helped put money in the pockets of the raw steel producing
industries and created jobs there, the net effect was a loss of jobs and
hard to the far more industries that use steel. Trump is replaying that
story right now. We'll see how it plays out by election day. My prediction
is after enough damage to the US is done, damage that may be irreversible,
Trump will do what he just did with KJU, surrender, fold up his tent and
declare victory. And you trumpets will believe him.







Foreign producers were selling their steel in The USA at a lower price thus undercutting the domestic steel industry which was hampered by the high cost of government regulations. Republic Steel in Gadsden, Al is where my father worked in the engineering department for more than 30 years and the plant closed in 2000. It had been in operation for almost a century. Not far from me in downtown Birmingham is The Sloss Furnace which produced steel and I remember riding over the viaduct which is going over part of the old mill and I recall seeing the furnace in operation back in the late 1960's. It's now a museum. There is a steel mill in operation just South of Birmingham in The City of Fairfield but it's nothing like it once was when it made steel for the hulls of warships and employed thousands of workers. From what I've read, the strong Dollar made imported steel so inexpensive that the US mills couldn't compete on price. So what happens if there is another world war? Oh yea, it will be Trump's fault or whichever Republican President is in The White House. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Observant Monster

On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 10:54:26 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 11:42:26 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 8:02:06 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 5:48:15 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 3:19:09 AM UTC-5, Bod wrote:
There is your "making America great again", in action. But heh, trade wars
are good and easy to win, right?

Last 30 years I watch so much moving away. Got a better idea ?

Greg

I was reading about all the other Harley overseas plants been in place well
before this.

Greg

The Hysterical Howling Progressive Liberal Leftist Commiecrat Moonbat Freaks are just trying to find a way to blame it on President Trump. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Observant Monster

Who would you blame then?
--
Bod

The Commiecrats who loaded the bureaucracy with their disciples who bury business with onerous regulation after costly regulation. Some bureaucrat who is not an elected official can write a regulation that carries the force of law and such "regulations" have driven many manufacturers to move their production to Asia where they don't have to put up with the costly nonsense. There is one federal agency called OSHA, Occupational Safety and Health Administration which has been the bane of business since its inception. Agents will inspect a manufacturing plant for safety violations but will usually find something trivial like a broken light switch cover and fine the manufacturer tens of thousands of dollars. Businesses like people will vote with their feet and move someplace where they're not constantly harassed. That's why businesses are leaving the Leftist utopia of Californiastan for business-friendly states. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Observant Monster

So you're saying that HD moving to another country has nothing to do
with Trump's tariffs, despite the company saying that it is?
--
Bod

Isn't a tariff usually put on something imported not exported? I don't recall reading anything about the government placing a tariff on exported Harley-Davidson products. Perhaps there are some foreign-made parts that Harley-Davidson is using that may be subject to a tariff? Perhaps the company should source everything from The USA so they can claim it's a completely American made bike? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Bike Monster

Again, if you're going to express opinions here, it would be a good idea to
understand the facts first. Not hard to do either, it's been all over the
news and maybe if you watched that instead of Looney Tunes, you'd learn.

On 6/28/2018 1:09 PM, taxpayer wrote:


So jobs moved offshore and here we are...a huge ****ing trade deficit
with multiple countries and all we can do is blame our economic woes on
President Trump for a mess he inherited from years of bad management by
democrats.Â* Nice!

I don't see anyone blaming Trump for the problems of the past. He is,
however, making some dumb changes that may worsen, not help, what is
going on. Right now we are in a decent economic position that can be
made inflationary quickly if not handled properly.

On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 1:43:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/28/2018 1:09 PM, taxpayer wrote:


So jobs moved offshore and here we are...a huge ****ing trade deficit
with multiple countries and all we can do is blame our economic woes on
President Trump for a mess he inherited from years of bad management by
democrats.Â* Nice!

I don't see anyone blaming Trump for the problems of the past. He is,
however, making some dumb changes that may worsen, not help, what is
going on. Right now we are in a decent economic position that can be
made inflationary quickly if not handled properly.

This is very true. There is huge liquidity in the system from all the
pump priming the fed did after 2008. And inflation was close to zero
for years, companies aren't used to raising prices. But once those
new steel, aluminum and other costs hit them and they start raising
prices, get a taste of it, they may decide to start raising other prices
too. With lots of money sloshing around, it's the perfect prescription
for inflation. I hope the Treasury has all the national debt in long
bonds, 20 years, etc. But knowing them, I wouldn't be surprised to find
it's in short maturities so that they could pay 1% instead of 3%.