Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

TIA


--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

--
Warren wanked William while Wendy wildly wobbled Wayne's Willy within warm water.

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:
https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work
Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of my single-story house.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:
https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work
Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.

--
How do you scare a man?
Sneak up behind him and start throwing rice.

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 8:36:29 AM UTC-5, KenK wrote:
Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

TIA
--


Swamp Coolers for homes work great in arid areas of the world but not where I'm from which is the Southeastern U.S. where the humidity can be cut with a knife during the Summer months. I had customers who had swamp coolers at their business. They were dry cleaners/laundries and some small manufacturing companies where the cost of air conditioning would have been astronomical in the production areas. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Swamp Monster

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
....

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse the
pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able
to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling,
or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.

Those aren't "just" AC units; they're heat pumps specifically designed
and built to do so....an AC unit is just that; the condenser/compressor
connected in cool mode without all the other auxiliary arrangements to
operate in heat/cool mode.

--

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:36:29 AM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

TIA


--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.


I would suspect the AC will use significantly more. Compressing gas in an
AC is going to take significantly more energy than a pump moving a small
amount of water a short distance. They both have fans, though the AC
needs more fan power too, because it has to blow air through the condenser
coils too. In fact, using less energy is probably the main feature of
a swamp cooler. How much that comes to in $$ will of course depend on
the size, climate and hours it's run.

On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse the
pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able
to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling,
or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.


For most of us, no need. We only use cooling here for two months. We
have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the
summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here.

In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works well.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:21:36 +0100, dpb wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
...

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the
pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able
to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling,
or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.

Those aren't "just" AC units; they're heat pumps specifically designed
and built to do so....an AC unit is just that; the condenser/compressor
connected in cool mode without all the other auxiliary arrangements to
operate in heat/cool mode.

How hard is it to make a motor run in reverse?

--
Two fish swim into a concrete wall. One turns to the other and says, "dam".

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:27:17 +0100, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the
pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able
to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling,
or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.


For most of us, no need. We only use cooling here for two months. We
have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the
summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here.

In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works well.

If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that. Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that? Why wouldn't you want them both to be the same unit?

--
Two fish swim into a concrete wall. One turns to the other and says, "dam".

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100,
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK
wrote:


[snip]

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.

What you're describing is what is referred to a split unit system or
inverter. After screwing around with a through the wall A/C unit which
was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I
finally got smart and picked up a split system (air handler inside,
compressor/inverter outside). What a difference. Very quiet (hard to
tell it's running, actually), and much cheaper than our old A/C unit.
And, as you say, when heat is needed, the system reverses itself and
heats the interior drawing heat from outside even when it's in the 20F
degree range outside.

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:27:17 +0100, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the
pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able
to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling,
or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.


For most of us, no need. We only use cooling here for two months. We
have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the
summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here.

In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works well.

If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that. Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that? Why wouldn't you want them both to be the same unit?

--
Two fish swim into a concrete wall. One turns to the other and says, "dam".

You know so damn much, why are you asking us? Go figure it out yourself.
I for one, won't educate you. All you do is turn your troll questions into
a 300 post thread of BS.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 07:05:56 -0700 (PDT), , the
notorious troll-feeding Yankietard, blabbered again:

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse.

EVERYTHING about you troll-feeding retard is "reversed"! tsk

On Mon, 7 May 2018 09:21:36 -0500, dpb, another troll-feeding dumbass,
driveled:


Those aren't "just" AC units; they're heat pumps specifically designed
and built to do so....an AC unit is just that; the condenser/compressor
connected in cool mode without all the other auxiliary arrangements to
operate in heat/cool mode.

These senile Yankietards just DON'T get it! LMAO

On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:27:17 -0400, Ed Pawlowski, the notorious,
troll-feeding Yankietard, blathered again:


For most of us, no need.

ALL you senile idiots need is some filthy Scottish troll you can suck off!
tsk

On Mon, 7 May 2018 09:36:47 -0500, Unquestionably Confused, unquestionably
another troll-feeding idiot, blathered:


was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I
finally got smart

That was good one, idiot! LOL

On 5/7/2018 9:32 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:21:36 +0100, dpb wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
...

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse the
pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able
to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling,
or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.

Those aren't "just" AC units; they're heat pumps specifically designed
and built to do so....an AC unit is just that; the condenser/compressor
connected in cool mode without all the other auxiliary arrangements to
operate in heat/cool mode.

How hard is it to make a motor run in reverse?

That's not what is done; what _is_ done is much more efficient but just
reversing the motor on an AC unit won't "get 'er done" in reality.

http://www.refrigerationbasics.com/RBIII/heat_pumps1.htm

--

On Mon, 7 May 2018 07:51:54 -0700 (PDT), tardo_4, the notorious,
troll-feeding Yankietard, driveled again:


You know so damn much, why are you asking us?

Take a guess, tardo_4! VBG

On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:02:27 -0500, dpb, another troll-feeding dumbass,
driveled:


That's not what is done; what _is_ done is much more efficient but just
reversing the motor on an AC unit won't "get 'er done" in reality.

What is done is that the filthy Scottish sow sets out one bait after another
for you senile Yankietards, and you idiot keep taking them ALL, time and
again ...even after you know better already! LOL

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:
https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work
Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.
--


You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad
thing.

On 5/7/2018 10:23 AM, trader_4 wrote:



I would suspect the AC will use significantly more. Compressing gas in an
AC is going to take significantly more energy than a pump moving a small
amount of water a short distance. They both have fans, though the AC
needs more fan power too, because it has to blow air through the condenser
coils too. In fact, using less energy is probably the main feature of
a swamp cooler. How much that comes to in $$ will of course depend on
the size, climate and hours it's run.


Climate is the other part. In some places a swamp cooler just adds to
the already high humidity and is not very efficient. They are best used
in the southwest US. Never saw one in the east.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 12:36:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

In some places a swamp cooler just adds to
the already high humidity and is not very efficient. They are best used
in the southwest US. Never saw one in the east.

Putting humidity in the air; in the desert, cools the skin. If outside
humidity reaches ~40=45% they are less efficient and almost useless.
Hard water wears them out, a reason for service so often in summer.

Right now it is 87 F with 10% humidity.(Las Vegas)

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:36:47 +0100, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100,
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK
wrote:


[snip]

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.

What you're describing is what is referred to a split unit system or
inverter. After screwing around with a through the wall A/C unit which
was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I
finally got smart and picked up a split system (air handler inside,
compressor/inverter outside). What a difference. Very quiet (hard to
tell it's running, actually), and much cheaper than our old A/C unit.
And, as you say, when heat is needed, the system reverses itself and
heats the interior drawing heat from outside even when it's in the 20F
degree range outside.

I wasn't aware they still made the one way systems. I know of several commercial and domestic places around here in the UK who have had AC units fitted (and they only wanted to cool the room down), and they're all reversible.

--
A chicken crossing the road is poultry in motion.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:51:54 +0100, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:27:17 +0100, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the
pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able
to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling,
or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.


For most of us, no need. We only use cooling here for two months. We
have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the
summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here.

In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works well.

If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that. Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that? Why wouldn't you want them both to be the same unit?

You know so damn much, why are you asking us? Go figure it out yourself.
I for one, won't educate you. All you do is turn your troll questions into
a 300 post thread of BS.

I've pointed out a superior system and asked why you're using the old one. I'm waiting for an answer.

--
If you eat a judge's uniform you might contract a lawsuit.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:02:27 +0100, dpb wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:32 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:21:36 +0100, dpb wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
...

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the
pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able
to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling,
or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.

Those aren't "just" AC units; they're heat pumps specifically designed
and built to do so....an AC unit is just that; the condenser/compressor
connected in cool mode without all the other auxiliary arrangements to
operate in heat/cool mode.

How hard is it to make a motor run in reverse?

That's not what is done; what _is_ done is much more efficient but just
reversing the motor on an AC unit won't "get 'er done" in reality.

http://www.refrigerationbasics.com/RBIII/heat_pumps1.htm

Ok so it's a load of valves instead of just running the compressor backwards, but basically it's just reversing the flow.

--
He was deeply in love. When she spoke, he thought he heard bells, as if she were a dustcart reversing.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad
thing.

+1 phoenix for example for most of the summer (but not all)

On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:36:11 +0100, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:

On 5/7/2018 7:05 AM, wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:
https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work
Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of my single-story house.

Cindy Hamilton


It's his peabrain which runs in reverse.
LOL

No, I just live in a more modern society.

--
Australia - 2030 ?????
HEADLINES FROM THE YEAR 2030
Ozone created by electric cars now killing millions in the seventh largest country in the world, Little India, formerly known as Australia.
White minorities still trying to have English recognized as Australia's third language.
Children from 2 parent heterosexual families bullied in schools for being 'different'. Tolerance urged.
Melbourne schoolgirl expelled for not wearing Burqa: Being a Christian is no excuse says school. Sharia law must be enforced.
After a 10-year, $75.8 billion study: Scientists prove Diet and exercise is the key to weight loss.
Japanese scientists have created a camera with such a fast shutter speed they now can photograph a woman with her mouth shut.
Supreme Court rules punishment of criminals violates their civil rights. Victims to be held partly responsible for crime.
New federal law requires that all nail clippers, screwdrivers, fly swatters, and rolled-up newspapers must be registered by January 2035 as lethal weapons.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:
https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work
Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.
--


You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

Why bother with the gas at all? Just have enough heat pumps to pump heat in winter and summer.

--
Flabbergasted (adj.), appalled over how much weight you have gained.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad
thing.

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

--
Confucius say man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

On 5/7/2018 10:16 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:51:54 +0100, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:27:17 +0100, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse
the
pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able
to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating,
cooling,
or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.


For most of us, no need.* We* only use cooling here for two
months.* We
have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the
summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here.

In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works
well.

If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that.
Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that?* Why wouldn't you want
them both to be the same unit?

You know so damn much, why are you asking us?** Go figure it out
yourself.
I for one, won't educate you.* All you do is turn your troll questions
into
a 300 post thread of BS.

I've pointed out a superior system and asked why you're using the old
one.* I'm waiting for an answer.


Since you are incapable of thinking yourself, it comes down to one thing: $

On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and
a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it
significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There
seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other
problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient.* A swamp cooler
is a pretend AC unit.* It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room.* Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat
pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units".* Mine won't run in
reverse.* It's pretty much exactly like this:

https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work

Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of
my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse
the pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this.* The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.
--


You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The
compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something
called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant
through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I
like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric
strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets
cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In
the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air
conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and
expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was
installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about
them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

Why bother with the gas at all?* Just have enough heat pumps to pump
heat in winter and summer.


Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they
become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip
heaters when outside temps get too low.

Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 8:36:29 AM UTC-5, KenK wrote:
Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a
small

window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it
significant
ly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to
be a

lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other
problems wi
th
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

TIA
--


Swamp Coolers for homes work great in arid areas of the world but not
where I'm from which is the Southeastern U.S. where the humidity can
be cut with a knife during the Summer months. I had customers who had
swamp coolers at their business. They were dry cleaners/laundries and
some small manufacturing companies where the cost of air conditioning
would have been astronomical in the production areas. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Swamp Monster


It's very arid where I live, SW AZ. A swamp cooler works fine, just that
a window AC is easier for me to maintain.


--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

trader_4 wrote in
:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:36:29 AM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a
small window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it
significantly more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler.
There seem to be a lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water
distribution and other problems with a cooler despite decades of
using one.

Thoughts?

TIA


--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.


I would suspect the AC will use significantly more. Compressing gas
in an AC is going to take significantly more energy than a pump moving
a small amount of water a short distance. They both have fans, though
the AC needs more fan power too, because it has to blow air through
the condenser coils too. In fact, using less energy is probably the
main feature of a swamp cooler. How much that comes to in $$ will of
course depend on the size, climate and hours it's run.



However, the cooler has a much larger fan, actually a big blower. It has
to move air through wet pads, not just a coil. The AC of course has to
run the compressor.



--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:15:37 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:36:47 +0100, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100,
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK
wrote:


[snip]

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.

What you're describing is what is referred to a split unit system or
inverter. After screwing around with a through the wall A/C unit which
was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I
finally got smart and picked up a split system (air handler inside,
compressor/inverter outside). What a difference. Very quiet (hard to
tell it's running, actually), and much cheaper than our old A/C unit.
And, as you say, when heat is needed, the system reverses itself and
heats the interior drawing heat from outside even when it's in the 20F
degree range outside.

I wasn't aware they still made the one way systems. I know of several commercial and domestic places around here in the UK who have had AC units fitted (and they only wanted to cool the room down), and they're all reversible.

Heat pumps are not used much here in South Florida either. I have a
Mini split heat pump and I don't think the heat function has ever been
used. There are heat strips in the air handler for the central air
system and I doubt they have ever been on either.
My wife has a little 1.4 KW heat strip in the electric fireplace in
the living room and that is all she ever uses. That is still very
seldom. Nobody has a furnace.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:39:49 +0100, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:16 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:51:54 +0100, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:27:17 +0100, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the
pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able
to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating,
cooling,
or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.


For most of us, no need. We only use cooling here for two
months. We
have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the
summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here.

In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works
well.

If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that.
Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that? Why wouldn't you want
them both to be the same unit?

You know so damn much, why are you asking us? Go figure it out
yourself.
I for one, won't educate you. All you do is turn your troll questions
into
a 300 post thread of BS.

I've pointed out a superior system and asked why you're using the old
one. I'm waiting for an answer.


Since you are incapable of thinking yourself, it comes down to one thing: $

I looked into buying one in the UK. The cheapest one runs both ways.

--
Bad command or file name! Go stand in the corner.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:42:48 +0100, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and
a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it
significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There
seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other
problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler
is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat
pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:

https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work

Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of
my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.
--


You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The
compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something
called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant
through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I
like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric
strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets
cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In
the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air
conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and
expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was
installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about
them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

Why bother with the gas at all? Just have enough heat pumps to pump
heat in winter and summer.


Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they
become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip
heaters when outside temps get too low.

Then you need more heat pumps. I've been told they tend to be 400% efficient even in winter. Maybe not if you live somewhere like Alaska where it's way below zero. Do you guys say "way below thirty two"?

--
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, do the other trees make fun of it?

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:54:21 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:15:37 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:36:47 +0100, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100,
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK
wrote:


[snip]

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.

What you're describing is what is referred to a split unit system or
inverter. After screwing around with a through the wall A/C unit which
was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I
finally got smart and picked up a split system (air handler inside,
compressor/inverter outside). What a difference. Very quiet (hard to
tell it's running, actually), and much cheaper than our old A/C unit.
And, as you say, when heat is needed, the system reverses itself and
heats the interior drawing heat from outside even when it's in the 20F
degree range outside.

I wasn't aware they still made the one way systems. I know of several commercial and domestic places around here in the UK who have had AC units fitted (and they only wanted to cool the room down), and they're all reversible.

Heat pumps are not used much here in South Florida either. I have a
Mini split heat pump and I don't think the heat function has ever been
used. There are heat strips in the air handler for the central air
system and I doubt they have ever been on either.
My wife has a little 1.4 KW heat strip in the electric fireplace in
the living room and that is all she ever uses. That is still very
seldom. Nobody has a furnace.

I guess it depends on the weather where you live as to what gets manufactured.

--
If god is so amazing, why did the dinosaurs die out?

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad
thing.

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of
places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a
problem. People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you
miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working.
There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the
outside coils ice up. Even at 5-7 C they are not very efficient. That
is why they usually have toaster wire strips in them.
When you want to heat something up, it is hard to beat burning gas if
you have it. Gas is really cheap here.

On 7 May 2018 17:50:19 GMT, KenK wrote:

It's very arid where I live, SW AZ. A swamp cooler works fine, just that
a window AC is easier for me to maintain.

Sounds like you answered some of your original questions :-)