On Mon, 07 May 2018 23:14:20 +0100, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 05/07/2018 12:28 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel
hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the
damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

Here, humidity is low in the winter. The cats don't like it when petting
is accompanied by electric shocks.

Then they'll just have to get used to it.

--
Do not adjust your mind - the fault is with reality.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:23:04 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad
thing.

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of
places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a
problem.

Why? What's so bad about dry air?

People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you
miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working.
There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the
outside coils ice up.

Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side.

Even at 5-7 C they are not very efficient. That
is why they usually have toaster wire strips in them.
When you want to heat something up, it is hard to beat burning gas if
you have it. Gas is really cheap here.

Here too, but a heat pump sounds simpler.

What is simpler than a burner a metal can and a fan?

All the radiators/pumps/valves/pipes to distribute the heat.

Most gas furnaces in the US are forced air distribution just like the
AC unit and use the same duct system. Using water and radiators went
away shortly after WWII. I never lived in a house with a radiator.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:43:18 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:39:54 +0100, mike wrote:

On 5/7/2018 1:23 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman
wrote:

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp
cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump
for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't
a bad
thing.

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it
feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold
weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of
places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a
problem.

Why? What's so bad about dry air?

People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you
miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working.
There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the
outside coils ice up.

Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the
cold side.

And the inside (cold) coils also ice up and quit working.

At -20C. But they don't stop working when the freezer is warmer than that.

BTW, a person can quit a job, a machine cannot quit, it stops.

The outside coils on a heat pump are not in a box with regulated
humidity.
Again, maybe you should look at a dew point chart.
They actually do use the same philosophy as a "frost free" freezer by
heating the coils when they ice up but when it gets cold enough you
spend as much energy heating the outside coils as the inside coils by
running it is AC mode instead of heat mode.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 16:37:56 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/7/2018 12:15 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:36:47 +0100, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100,
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK
wrote:


[snip]

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?Â* You just reverse
the pump.Â* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this.Â* The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic.Â* On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.

What you're describing is what is referred to a split unit system or
inverter.Â* After screwing around with a through the wall A/C unit which
was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I
finally got smart and picked up a split system (air handler inside,
compressor/inverter outside).Â* What a difference. Very quiet (hard to
tell it's running, actually), and much cheaper than our old A/C unit.
And, as you say, when heat is needed, the system reverses itself and
heats the interior drawing heat from outside even when it's in the 20F
degree range outside.

I wasn't aware they still made the one way systems.Â* I know of several
commercial and domestic places around here in the UK who have had AC
units fitted (and they only wanted to cool the room down), and they're
all reversible.

Personally, I have never seen a window type inverter system such as you
describe, only the split systems. Doesn't mean they aren't out there on
this side of the pond, just that I've not seen them and I was looking
for any suitable alternatives to the window/thru wall units two years
ago when I went to the current split.



They do make window shaker heat pumps but I am not sure how big the
market actually is for them. I suspect it may just be using mini split
hardware in one box.

On 7 May 2018 13:36:24 GMT, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

TIA
Up here a swamp cooler would use a LOT more power and would still
not cool effectively. Our summer humidity is too high for a "swamp
cooler" to work. They are really only "desert coolers"

On Mon, 7 May 2018 07:05:56 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:
https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work
Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of my single-story house.

Cindy Hamilton
The simple insertion of a "reversing valve" turns an AC unit into a
heat pump. Not FEASIBLE on many units, but possible.

The technology is all there except for the valve.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 09:21:36 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
...

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse the
pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able
to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling,
or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.

Those aren't "just" AC units; they're heat pumps specifically designed
and built to do so....an AC unit is just that; the condenser/compressor
connected in cool mode without all the other auxiliary arrangements to
operate in heat/cool mode.
and the pump is NOT reversed. There is just a rather complex little
device called a "reversing valve" which switches the high and low side
of the compressor between the "evaporator" and the "condenser" -
making them trade places and functions.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:39:49 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:16 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:51:54 +0100, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:27:17 +0100, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse
the
pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able
to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating,
cooling,
or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.


For most of us, no need.* We* only use cooling here for two
months.* We
have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the
summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here.

In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works
well.

If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that.
Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that?* Why wouldn't you want
them both to be the same unit?

You know so damn much, why are you asking us?** Go figure it out
yourself.
I for one, won't educate you.* All you do is turn your troll questions
into
a 300 post thread of BS.

I've pointed out a superior system and asked why you're using the old
one.* I'm waiting for an answer.


Since you are incapable of thinking yourself, it comes down to one thing: $



And not just megabucks - Gigabucks and terrabucks

On 5/7/2018 3:14 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 05/07/2018 12:28 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

Why does anyone want humidity?* If it's hot, humid air makes it feel
hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily.* In cold weather, the
damp cools you down more.* So it's never wanted.

Here, humidity is low in the winter. The cats don't like it when petting
is accompanied by electric shocks.


In my college dormitory in Boston, I had to approach my room door with
my key held firmly to take the spark in the winter. If you approached
with your bare hand, the 3/4 inch spark would really hurt.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 13:54:21 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:15:37 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:36:47 +0100, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100,
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK
wrote:


[snip]

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.

What you're describing is what is referred to a split unit system or
inverter. After screwing around with a through the wall A/C unit which
was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I
finally got smart and picked up a split system (air handler inside,
compressor/inverter outside). What a difference. Very quiet (hard to
tell it's running, actually), and much cheaper than our old A/C unit.
And, as you say, when heat is needed, the system reverses itself and
heats the interior drawing heat from outside even when it's in the 20F
degree range outside.

I wasn't aware they still made the one way systems. I know of several commercial and domestic places around here in the UK who have had AC units fitted (and they only wanted to cool the room down), and they're all reversible.

Heat pumps are not used much here in South Florida either. I have a
Mini split heat pump and I don't think the heat function has ever been
used. There are heat strips in the air handler for the central air
system and I doubt they have ever been on either.
My wife has a little 1.4 KW heat strip in the electric fireplace in
the living room and that is all she ever uses. That is still very
seldom. Nobody has a furnace.


Lucky you
But the AC runs almost full time half the year - and that;s just when
the power isn't out due to a Hurricane --BG

We had hurricane force winds here over the weekend - a once every 50
year or so occurence - the highest winds recorded here since records
started being kept - even higher than Hurricane Hazel back in '54.

You Floridians can have em!!!!!

Over the last number of years we've used the AC for a few weeks each
summer (we're cheap - we put up with more heatr and humidity thasn
many of out neighbot=rs) and the furnace is turned on from about
thanksgiving (Columbus day to you 'mericans) till May 24 (Memorial day
for you 'mericans)

The furnace has run 700 hours this season with just over 3 weeks lest
to go ( and the furnace shut off for several days aleady with windows
and doors open)

On Mon, 07 May 2018 20:12:23 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

On 7 May 2018 13:36:24 GMT, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

TIA
Up here a swamp cooler would use a LOT more power and would still
not cool effectively. Our summer humidity is too high for a "swamp
cooler" to work. They are really only "desert coolers"

Seems water should be at a premium in the desert.
I'd think your water bill may take a hit.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:33:37 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 7 May 2018 16:37:56 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/7/2018 12:15 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:36:47 +0100, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100,
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK
wrote:


[snip]

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse
the pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this.* The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.

What you're describing is what is referred to a split unit system or
inverter.* After screwing around with a through the wall A/C unit which
was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I
finally got smart and picked up a split system (air handler inside,
compressor/inverter outside).* What a difference. Very quiet (hard to
tell it's running, actually), and much cheaper than our old A/C unit.
And, as you say, when heat is needed, the system reverses itself and
heats the interior drawing heat from outside even when it's in the 20F
degree range outside.

I wasn't aware they still made the one way systems.* I know of several
commercial and domestic places around here in the UK who have had AC
units fitted (and they only wanted to cool the room down), and they're
all reversible.

Personally, I have never seen a window type inverter system such as you
describe, only the split systems. Doesn't mean they aren't out there on
this side of the pond, just that I've not seen them and I was looking
for any suitable alternatives to the window/thru wall units two years
ago when I went to the current split.



They do make window shaker heat pumps but I am not sure how big the
market actually is for them. I suspect it may just be using mini split
hardware in one box.
It's just a standard window unit (usually 12000 BTU) with a
reversing valve installed. Not very common at all since the
mini-splits have become available at semi-reasonable price-point.

I think I've seen a total of 2 or 3 in North America outside of the
old through-the-wall motel units - which are also thankfully being
repolaced by mini-splits in new motel construction.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:42:48 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and
a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it
significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There
seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other
problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient.* A swamp cooler
is a pretend AC unit.* It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room.* Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat
pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units".* Mine won't run in
reverse.* It's pretty much exactly like this:

https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work

Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of
my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse
the pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this.* The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.
--


You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The
compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something
called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant
through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I
like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric
strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets
cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In
the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air
conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and
expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was
installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about
them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

Why bother with the gas at all?* Just have enough heat pumps to pump
heat in winter and summer.


Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they
become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip
heaters when outside temps get too low.
Most "air source" heat pumps. Ground source or geothermals can
pretty much handle it without heat-strips - even up here.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 13:33:27 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 01:07 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 2:03:55 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:42:48 +0100, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and
a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it
significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There
seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other
problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler
is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat
pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:

https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work

Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of
my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.
--


You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The
compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something
called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant
through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I
like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric
strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets
cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In
the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air
conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and
expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was
installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about
them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

Why bother with the gas at all? Just have enough heat pumps to pump
heat in winter and summer.


Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they
become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip
heaters when outside temps get too low.

Then you need more heat pumps. I've been told they tend to be 400% efficient even in winter. Maybe not if you live somewhere like Alaska where it's way below zero. Do you guys say "way below thirty two"?

We say "way below freezing".

Average January nighttime low where I live is -7.8 C. Record
low is -25.0 C. We can usually count on at least three nights
that are below 18 C.

Average July daytime high is 28.4 C. Record daytime high is
35 C.

When we say 'way below zero' it's way below -18 C.

A "cold day" is a cold day, no matter which scale you use when it
hits -40

On Mon, 7 May 2018 13:47:02 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 3:43:32 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 20:33:27 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 01:07 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 2:03:55 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:42:48 +0100, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and
a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it
significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There
seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other
problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler
is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat
pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:

https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work

Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of
my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.
--


You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The
compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something
called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant
through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I
like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric
strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets
cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In
the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air
conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and
expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was
installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about
them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

Why bother with the gas at all? Just have enough heat pumps to pump
heat in winter and summer.


Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they
become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip
heaters when outside temps get too low.

Then you need more heat pumps. I've been told they tend to be 400% efficient even in winter. Maybe not if you live somewhere like Alaska where it's way below zero. Do you guys say "way below thirty two"?

We say "way below freezing".

Average January nighttime low where I live is -7.8 C. Record
low is -25.0 C. We can usually count on at least three nights
that are below 18 C.

Average July daytime high is 28.4 C. Record daytime high is
35 C.

When we say 'way below zero' it's way below -18 C.

Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that doesn't have a zero in a sensible place? C is easy - 0 is freezing 100 is boiling. Of water, the most important thing on the planet.

Any such system is arbitrary and it makes no sense to complain
about its arbitrariness.

Cindy Hamilton
The only real advantage to the celcius scale is it follows the
metric - or "decimal" system - 100 degrees between freezing and
boiling water. (instead of 180)

On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:13:18 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad
thing.

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of
places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a
problem.

Why? What's so bad about dry air?

People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you
miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working.
There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the
outside coils ice up.

Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side.

Even at 5-7 C they are not very efficient. That
is why they usually have toaster wire strips in them.
When you want to heat something up, it is hard to beat burning gas if
you have it. Gas is really cheap here.

Here too, but a heat pump sounds simpler.

What is simpler than a burner a metal can and a fan?

a hunk of peat on the grate.

On 05/07/2018 01:43 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that
doesn't have a zero in a sensible place? C is easy - 0 is freezing 100
is boiling. Of water, the most important thing on the planet.

To avoid using the same system as the Eurotrash?

On 05/07/2018 01:42 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 20:28:14 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 12:59 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

What does it feel like to be in a house that's "too dry"?

The furniture tends to fall apart, to say nothing of your skin. It's
rough on many musical instruments too. I went to a uilleann pipes
concert in March and the guy was crouched over a vaporizer trying to
keep them functional.

The interesting part is you don't sweat like most people think about
sweating. Your pores are putting out moisture but it evaporates
immediately.

But that's the point. As soon as your sweat evaporates, it's performed
it's purpose, you cool down. It can't evaporate too fast, that would
make you colder and you just sweat less.

When it's 103 F getting too cold is not a consideration.

On 5/7/2018 2:02 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse
the
pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able
to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating,
cooling,
or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 -
22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.


For most of us, no need.* We* only use cooling here for two
months.* We
have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in
the
summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here.

In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works
well.

If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that.
Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that?* Why wouldn't you want
them both to be the same unit?

You know so damn much, why are you asking us?** Go figure it out
yourself.
I for one, won't educate you.* All you do is turn your troll questions
into
a 300 post thread of BS.

I've pointed out a superior system and asked why you're using the old
one.* I'm waiting for an answer.


Since you are incapable of thinking yourself, it comes down to one
thing: $

I looked into buying one in the UK.* The cheapest one runs both ways.


Surem but it would be 40% cheaper if it only cooled. You guys get hosed.

On 5/7/2018 2:03 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they
become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip
heaters when outside temps get too low.

Then you need more heat pumps.* I've been told they tend to be 400%
efficient even in winter.* Maybe not if you live somewhere like Alaska
where it's way below zero.* Do you guys say "way below thirty two"?


Why, when we have more efficient central heating systems using lower
cost fuel? They are good in some areas, but not all. My new house will
have a heat pump but it is a much more mild climate.

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:25:02 PM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 21:07:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski, the notorious,
troll-feeding Yankietard, blathered again:

I looked into buying one in the UK.* The cheapest one runs both ways.


Surem but it would be 40% cheaper if it only cooled. You guys get hosed.

Nah! YOU guys just get ****ed all over by him, time and again! LOL

On Mon, 7 May 2018 18:59:08 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling
senile idiot, blabbered again:


To avoid using the same system as the Eurotrash?

Why, you have no problem sucking off, time and again, the filthiest
Eurotrash troll that is around, unwashed gay ****** Peter Hucker himself!

On Mon, 7 May 2018 19:03:51 -0700 (PDT), Auntie Senile Monster drooled and
driveled again:


My choice for a heat pump

Your heat pump of choice is always the Scottish ******'s unwashed cock that
you keep sucking, senile idiot!

[8~{} Auntie Grounded Monster

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:30:24 -0400, , the mentally
challenged, notorious, troll-feeding retard, blabbered again:


BTW, a person can quit a job, a machine cannot quit, it stops.

The outside coils on a heat pump are not in a box with regulated
humidity.
Again, maybe you should look at a dew point chart.
They actually do use the same philosophy as a "frost free" freezer by
heating the coils when they ice up but when it gets cold enough you
spend as much energy heating the outside coils as the inside coils by
running it is AC mode instead of heat mode.

Those senile Yankietards just WON'T realize how this Scottish sow keeps
making a fool of them! LOL

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:26:06 -0400, , the mentally
challenged, notorious, troll-feeding retard, blabbered again:


Most gas furnaces in the US are forced air distribution just like the
AC unit and use the same duct system. Using water and radiators went
away shortly after WWII. I never lived in a house with a radiator.

You ARE aware that this idiot has been "discussing" the same **** with you
idiots several times in the past already? But it's always nice for him to
KEEP baiting you with the same old ****. And, if need be, he will just make
up some new **** to keep baiting you with for days and weeks, you senile
oafs! LOL

On Mon, 7 May 2018 19:02:39 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling
senile idiot, blabbered again:


When it's 103 F getting too cold is not a consideration.

Being too old is always a consideration with you endlessly driveling senile
Yanks.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 21:11:33 -0400, Ed Pawlowski, the notorious,
troll-feeding Yankietard, blathered again:


Why, when we have more efficient central heating systems using lower
cost fuel?

WHY? LOL You still don't get it, eh, senile one? Why, he asks! LMAO!

On 05/07/2018 03:43 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that doesn't have a zero in a sensible place?Â* C is easy - 0 is freezing 100 is boiling.Â* Of water, the most important thing on the planet.

The Fahrenheit scale is a temperature scale invented by a Polock physicist Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (1686€“1736).

On Tue, 08 May 2018 11:44:05 +0100, Chuck Dumbrowcyzk wrote:

On 05/07/2018 03:43 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that doesn't have a zero in a sensible place? C is easy - 0 is freezing 100 is boiling. Of water, the most important thing on the planet.

The Fahrenheit scale is a temperature scale invented by a Polock physicist Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (1686€“1736).

Yes, and?

--
I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like my Uncle Bob. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:43:18 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:39:54 +0100, mike wrote:

On 5/7/2018 1:23 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman
wrote:

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp
cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump
for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't
a bad
thing.

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it
feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold
weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of
places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a
problem.

Why? What's so bad about dry air?

People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you
miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working.
There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the
outside coils ice up.

Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the
cold side.

And the inside (cold) coils also ice up and quit working.

At -20C. But they don't stop working when the freezer is warmer than that.

BTW, a person can quit a job, a machine cannot quit, it stops.

Just looked up heat pumps, and depending on the design, they can function down to -25C outdoor temperature.

--
Police cordoned off Liverpool City Centre this morning when a suspicious object was discovered in a car.
It later turned out to be a tax disc.

On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:26:06 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:23:04 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad
thing.

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of
places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a
problem.

Why? What's so bad about dry air?

People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you
miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working.
There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the
outside coils ice up.

Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side.

Even at 5-7 C they are not very efficient. That
is why they usually have toaster wire strips in them.
When you want to heat something up, it is hard to beat burning gas if
you have it. Gas is really cheap here.

Here too, but a heat pump sounds simpler.

What is simpler than a burner a metal can and a fan?

All the radiators/pumps/valves/pipes to distribute the heat.

Most gas furnaces in the US are forced air distribution just like the
AC unit and use the same duct system. Using water and radiators went
away shortly after WWII. I never lived in a house with a radiator.

There must be a reason America uses air and Britain uses water.
Both seem to have advantages, but what would annoy me are draughts and noise, so I'd always fit water:
http://resources.heatingoilexpress.c...-home-heating/

--
Das Computer Maschine Ist Nich Fur Gefingerenpoken Und Mittengrabben!
Ist Easy Schnappen Der Springenwerken Mit Spitzensparken Und Poppenkorken!
Das Rubbernecken Sightseeren Mus Keep Der Handz In Der Pockets, Relax Und Vatch Die Blinkenlights!!

On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:30:24 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:43:18 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:39:54 +0100, mike wrote:

On 5/7/2018 1:23 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman
wrote:

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp
cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump
for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't
a bad
thing.

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it
feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold
weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of
places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a
problem.

Why? What's so bad about dry air?

People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you
miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working.
There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the
outside coils ice up.

Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the
cold side.

And the inside (cold) coils also ice up and quit working.

At -20C. But they don't stop working when the freezer is warmer than that.

BTW, a person can quit a job, a machine cannot quit, it stops.

The outside coils on a heat pump are not in a box with regulated
humidity.
Again, maybe you should look at a dew point chart.
They actually do use the same philosophy as a "frost free" freezer by
heating the coils when they ice up but when it gets cold enough you
spend as much energy heating the outside coils as the inside coils by
running it is AC mode instead of heat mode.

Non-frost-free freezers manage just fine. And the inside of a freezer is most certainly not dry.

--
The Red Cross just knocked on my door and asked if we could contribute towards the floods in Lebanon.
I said we'd love to, but our garden hose only reaches the driveway.

On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:18:19 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:39:49 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:16 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:51:54 +0100, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:27:17 +0100, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the
pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able
to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating,
cooling,
or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C)
and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats.


For most of us, no need. We only use cooling here for two
months. We
have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the
summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here.

In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works
well.

If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that.
Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that? Why wouldn't you want
them both to be the same unit?

You know so damn much, why are you asking us? Go figure it out
yourself.
I for one, won't educate you. All you do is turn your troll questions
into
a 300 post thread of BS.

I've pointed out a superior system and asked why you're using the old
one. I'm waiting for an answer.


Since you are incapable of thinking yourself, it comes down to one thing: $



And not just megabucks - Gigabucks and terrabucks

If it cost that much nobody would have them.

--
Oh my goodness what a caper, someone's ****ed on the magic paper.

On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:18:24 +0100, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 3:14 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 05/07/2018 12:28 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel
hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the
damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

Here, humidity is low in the winter. The cats don't like it when petting
is accompanied by electric shocks.

In my college dormitory in Boston, I had to approach my room door with
my key held firmly to take the spark in the winter. If you approached
with your bare hand, the 3/4 inch spark would really hurt.

I've never understood that, I thought the fright/pain/shock came from the current, which is the same if you're holding a key. Yet I can't feel it at all with a key. So is it not actually an electric shock but instead the hot spark?

--
Oh my goodness what a caper, someone's ****ed on the magic paper.

On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:29:48 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 13:54:21 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:15:37 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:36:47 +0100, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100,
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK
wrote:


[snip]

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.

What you're describing is what is referred to a split unit system or
inverter. After screwing around with a through the wall A/C unit which
was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I
finally got smart and picked up a split system (air handler inside,
compressor/inverter outside). What a difference. Very quiet (hard to
tell it's running, actually), and much cheaper than our old A/C unit.
And, as you say, when heat is needed, the system reverses itself and
heats the interior drawing heat from outside even when it's in the 20F
degree range outside.

I wasn't aware they still made the one way systems. I know of several commercial and domestic places around here in the UK who have had AC units fitted (and they only wanted to cool the room down), and they're all reversible.

Heat pumps are not used much here in South Florida either. I have a
Mini split heat pump and I don't think the heat function has ever been
used. There are heat strips in the air handler for the central air
system and I doubt they have ever been on either.
My wife has a little 1.4 KW heat strip in the electric fireplace in
the living room and that is all she ever uses. That is still very
seldom. Nobody has a furnace.


Lucky you
But the AC runs almost full time half the year - and that;s just when
the power isn't out due to a Hurricane --BG

We had hurricane force winds here over the weekend - a once every 50
year or so occurence - the highest winds recorded here since records
started being kept - even higher than Hurricane Hazel back in '54.

You Floridians can have em!!!!!

Over the last number of years we've used the AC for a few weeks each
summer (we're cheap - we put up with more heatr and humidity thasn
many of out neighbot=rs) and the furnace is turned on from about
thanksgiving (Columbus day to you 'mericans) till May 24 (Memorial day
for you 'mericans)

The furnace has run 700 hours this season with just over 3 weeks lest
to go ( and the furnace shut off for several days aleady with windows
and doors open)

If you walk around your house naked in summer, you need less AC.

--
If only women came with pull-down menus and on-line help.

On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:34:53 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:42:48 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and
a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it
significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There
seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other
problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler
is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat
pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:

https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work

Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of
my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.
--


You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The
compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something
called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant
through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I
like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric
strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets
cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In
the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air
conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and
expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was
installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about
them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

Why bother with the gas at all? Just have enough heat pumps to pump
heat in winter and summer.


Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they
become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip
heaters when outside temps get too low.
Most "air source" heat pumps. Ground source or geothermals can
pretty much handle it without heat-strips - even up here.

Trouble is that needs a lot of digging to install. I hate digging.

--
A bleached blonde and a natural blonde were on top of the Empire State Building.
How do you tell them apart?
The bleached blonde would never throw bread to the helicopters.

On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:39:30 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Mon, 7 May 2018 13:47:02 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 3:43:32 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 20:33:27 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 01:07 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 2:03:55 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:42:48 +0100, Bob F wrote:

On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote:

Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and
a small
window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it
significantly
more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There
seem to be a
lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other
problems with
a cooler despite decades of using one.

Thoughts?

It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler
is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the
room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat
pump for winter.

You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in
reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this:

https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work

Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of
my single-story house.

Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse
the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has
been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for
heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a
range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under,
it heats.
--


You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The
compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something
called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant
through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I
like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric
strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets
cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In
the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air
conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and
expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was
installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about
them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

Why bother with the gas at all? Just have enough heat pumps to pump
heat in winter and summer.


Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they
become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip
heaters when outside temps get too low.

Then you need more heat pumps. I've been told they tend to be 400% efficient even in winter. Maybe not if you live somewhere like Alaska where it's way below zero. Do you guys say "way below thirty two"?

We say "way below freezing".

Average January nighttime low where I live is -7.8 C. Record
low is -25.0 C. We can usually count on at least three nights
that are below 18 C.

Average July daytime high is 28.4 C. Record daytime high is
35 C.

When we say 'way below zero' it's way below -18 C.

Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that doesn't have a zero in a sensible place? C is easy - 0 is freezing 100 is boiling. Of water, the most important thing on the planet.

Any such system is arbitrary and it makes no sense to complain
about its arbitrariness.

Cindy Hamilton
The only real advantage to the celcius scale is it follows the
metric - or "decimal" system - 100 degrees between freezing and
boiling water. (instead of 180)

That's a big advantage.

Also the 0 at the same point as freezing.

--
If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes?

On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:46:55 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:13:18 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a
pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room.
Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter.

In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad
thing.

Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted.

You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of
places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a
problem.

Why? What's so bad about dry air?

People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you
miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working.
There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the
outside coils ice up.

Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side.

Even at 5-7 C they are not very efficient. That
is why they usually have toaster wire strips in them.
When you want to heat something up, it is hard to beat burning gas if
you have it. Gas is really cheap here.

Here too, but a heat pump sounds simpler.

What is simpler than a burner a metal can and a fan?

a hunk of peat on the grate.

I detest fireplaces. When not in use, you can hear the neighbour's dog through the chimney. And presumably you're losing a lot of heat through it too.

--
"Have you been hunting bear lately?"
"No, the grass tickles."

On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:59:08 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 05/07/2018 01:43 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that
doesn't have a zero in a sensible place? C is easy - 0 is freezing 100
is boiling. Of water, the most important thing on the planet.

To avoid using the same system as the Eurotrash?

Not everything they do is stupid, only 99% of it.

--
On a Continental Flight with a very "senior" flight attendant crew, the pilot said,
"Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached cruising altitude and will be turning down the cabin lights.
This is for your comfort, and to enhance the appearance of your flight attendants."