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#81
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Mon, 07 May 2018 23:14:20 +0100, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 05/07/2018 12:28 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [snip] Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted. Here, humidity is low in the winter. The cats don't like it when petting is accompanied by electric shocks. Then they'll just have to get used to it. -- Do not adjust your mind - the fault is with reality. |
#82
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:23:04 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote: On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad thing. Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted. You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a problem. Why? What's so bad about dry air? People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working. There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the outside coils ice up. Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side. Even at 5-7 C they are not very efficient. That is why they usually have toaster wire strips in them. When you want to heat something up, it is hard to beat burning gas if you have it. Gas is really cheap here. Here too, but a heat pump sounds simpler. What is simpler than a burner a metal can and a fan? All the radiators/pumps/valves/pipes to distribute the heat. Most gas furnaces in the US are forced air distribution just like the AC unit and use the same duct system. Using water and radiators went away shortly after WWII. I never lived in a house with a radiator. |
#83
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:43:18 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:39:54 +0100, mike wrote: On 5/7/2018 1:23 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote: On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad thing. Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted. You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a problem. Why? What's so bad about dry air? People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working. There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the outside coils ice up. Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side. And the inside (cold) coils also ice up and quit working. At -20C. But they don't stop working when the freezer is warmer than that. BTW, a person can quit a job, a machine cannot quit, it stops. The outside coils on a heat pump are not in a box with regulated humidity. Again, maybe you should look at a dew point chart. They actually do use the same philosophy as a "frost free" freezer by heating the coils when they ice up but when it gets cold enough you spend as much energy heating the outside coils as the inside coils by running it is AC mode instead of heat mode. |
#84
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Mon, 7 May 2018 16:37:56 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote: On 5/7/2018 12:15 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:36:47 +0100, Unquestionably Confused wrote: On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote: [snip] Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?Â* You just reverse the pump.Â* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this.Â* The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic.Â* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats. What you're describing is what is referred to a split unit system or inverter.Â* After screwing around with a through the wall A/C unit which was noisier than all get out in the size needed to cool the addition, I finally got smart and picked up a split system (air handler inside, compressor/inverter outside).Â* What a difference. Very quiet (hard to tell it's running, actually), and much cheaper than our old A/C unit. And, as you say, when heat is needed, the system reverses itself and heats the interior drawing heat from outside even when it's in the 20F degree range outside. I wasn't aware they still made the one way systems.Â* I know of several commercial and domestic places around here in the UK who have had AC units fitted (and they only wanted to cool the room down), and they're all reversible. Personally, I have never seen a window type inverter system such as you describe, only the split systems. Doesn't mean they aren't out there on this side of the pond, just that I've not seen them and I was looking for any suitable alternatives to the window/thru wall units two years ago when I went to the current split. They do make window shaker heat pumps but I am not sure how big the market actually is for them. I suspect it may just be using mini split hardware in one box. |
#85
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On 7 May 2018 13:36:24 GMT, KenK wrote:
Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with a cooler despite decades of using one. Thoughts? TIA Up here a swamp cooler would use a LOT more power and would still not cool effectively. Our summer humidity is too high for a "swamp cooler" to work. They are really only "desert coolers" |
#86
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
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#87
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Mon, 7 May 2018 09:21:36 -0500, dpb wrote:
On 5/7/2018 9:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: ... Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse the pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats. Those aren't "just" AC units; they're heat pumps specifically designed and built to do so....an AC unit is just that; the condenser/compressor connected in cool mode without all the other auxiliary arrangements to operate in heat/cool mode. and the pump is NOT reversed. There is just a rather complex little device called a "reversing valve" which switches the high and low side of the compressor between the "evaporator" and the "condenser" - making them trade places and functions. |
#88
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:39:49 -0700, Bob F wrote:
On 5/7/2018 10:16 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:51:54 +0100, trader_4 wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:27:17 +0100, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse the pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats. For most of us, no need.* We* only use cooling here for two months.* We have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here. In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works well. If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that. Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that?* Why wouldn't you want them both to be the same unit? You know so damn much, why are you asking us?** Go figure it out yourself. I for one, won't educate you.* All you do is turn your troll questions into a 300 post thread of BS. I've pointed out a superior system and asked why you're using the old one.* I'm waiting for an answer. Since you are incapable of thinking yourself, it comes down to one thing: $ And not just megabucks - Gigabucks and terrabucks |
#89
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On 5/7/2018 3:14 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 05/07/2018 12:28 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [snip] Why does anyone want humidity?* If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily.* In cold weather, the damp cools you down more.* So it's never wanted. Here, humidity is low in the winter. The cats don't like it when petting is accompanied by electric shocks. In my college dormitory in Boston, I had to approach my room door with my key held firmly to take the spark in the winter. If you approached with your bare hand, the 3/4 inch spark would really hurt. |
#91
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Mon, 07 May 2018 20:12:23 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:
On 7 May 2018 13:36:24 GMT, KenK wrote: Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with a cooler despite decades of using one. Thoughts? TIA Up here a swamp cooler would use a LOT more power and would still not cool effectively. Our summer humidity is too high for a "swamp cooler" to work. They are really only "desert coolers" Seems water should be at a premium in the desert. I'd think your water bill may take a hit. |
#92
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
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#93
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:42:48 -0700, Bob F wrote:
On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote: Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with a cooler despite decades of using one. Thoughts? It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient.* A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit.* It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room.* Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. You must have different "real AC units".* Mine won't run in reverse.* It's pretty much exactly like this: https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of my single-story house. Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse the pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats. -- You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about them. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle AC Monster Why bother with the gas at all?* Just have enough heat pumps to pump heat in winter and summer. Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip heaters when outside temps get too low. Most "air source" heat pumps. Ground source or geothermals can pretty much handle it without heat-strips - even up here. |
#94
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
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#96
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
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#97
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On 05/07/2018 01:43 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that doesn't have a zero in a sensible place? C is easy - 0 is freezing 100 is boiling. Of water, the most important thing on the planet. To avoid using the same system as the Eurotrash? |
#98
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On 05/07/2018 01:42 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 20:28:14 +0100, rbowman wrote: On 05/07/2018 12:59 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: What does it feel like to be in a house that's "too dry"? The furniture tends to fall apart, to say nothing of your skin. It's rough on many musical instruments too. I went to a uilleann pipes concert in March and the guy was crouched over a vaporizer trying to keep them functional. The interesting part is you don't sweat like most people think about sweating. Your pores are putting out moisture but it evaporates immediately. But that's the point. As soon as your sweat evaporates, it's performed it's purpose, you cool down. It can't evaporate too fast, that would make you colder and you just sweat less. When it's 103 F getting too cold is not a consideration. |
#99
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On 5/7/2018 2:02 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards?* You just reverse the pump.* Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this.* The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic.* On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats. For most of us, no need.* We* only use cooling here for two months.* We have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here. In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works well. If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that. Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that?* Why wouldn't you want them both to be the same unit? You know so damn much, why are you asking us?** Go figure it out yourself. I for one, won't educate you.* All you do is turn your troll questions into a 300 post thread of BS. I've pointed out a superior system and asked why you're using the old one.* I'm waiting for an answer. Since you are incapable of thinking yourself, it comes down to one thing: $ I looked into buying one in the UK.* The cheapest one runs both ways. Surem but it would be 40% cheaper if it only cooled. You guys get hosed. |
#100
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On 5/7/2018 2:03 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip heaters when outside temps get too low. Then you need more heat pumps.* I've been told they tend to be 400% efficient even in winter.* Maybe not if you live somewhere like Alaska where it's way below zero.* Do you guys say "way below thirty two"? Why, when we have more efficient central heating systems using lower cost fuel? They are good in some areas, but not all. My new house will have a heat pump but it is a much more mild climate. |
#101
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:25:02 PM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote: Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with a cooler despite decades of using one. Thoughts? It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. |
#102
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Troll-feeding Senile Idiot Alert!
On Mon, 7 May 2018 21:07:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski, the notorious,
troll-feeding Yankietard, blathered again: I looked into buying one in the UK.* The cheapest one runs both ways. Surem but it would be 40% cheaper if it only cooled. You guys get hosed. Nah! YOU guys just get ****ed all over by him, time and again! LOL |
#103
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lowbrowman, Birdbrain's eternal senile whore!
On Mon, 7 May 2018 18:59:08 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling
senile idiot, blabbered again: To avoid using the same system as the Eurotrash? Why, you have no problem sucking off, time and again, the filthiest Eurotrash troll that is around, unwashed gay ****** Peter Hucker himself! |
#104
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ESPECIALLY Senile Yank Alert!
On Mon, 7 May 2018 19:03:51 -0700 (PDT), Auntie Senile Monster drooled and
driveled again: My choice for a heat pump Your heat pump of choice is always the Scottish ******'s unwashed cock that you keep sucking, senile idiot! [8~{} Auntie Grounded Monster |
#105
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Troll-feeding Senile Yanks Alert!
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#106
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Troll-feeding Senile Yank Alert!
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#107
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lowbrowman, Birdbrain's eternal senile whore!
On Mon, 7 May 2018 19:02:39 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling
senile idiot, blabbered again: When it's 103 F getting too cold is not a consideration. Being too old is always a consideration with you endlessly driveling senile Yanks. |
#108
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Troll-feeding Senile Yank Alert!
On Mon, 7 May 2018 21:11:33 -0400, Ed Pawlowski, the notorious,
troll-feeding Yankietard, blathered again: Why, when we have more efficient central heating systems using lower cost fuel? WHY? LOL You still don't get it, eh, senile one? Why, he asks! LMAO! |
#109
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On 05/07/2018 03:43 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that doesn't have a zero in a sensible place?Â* C is easy - 0 is freezing 100 is boiling.Â* Of water, the most important thing on the planet. The Fahrenheit scale is a temperature scale invented by a Polock physicist Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (1686€“1736). |
#110
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Tue, 08 May 2018 11:44:05 +0100, Chuck Dumbrowcyzk wrote:
On 05/07/2018 03:43 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that doesn't have a zero in a sensible place? C is easy - 0 is freezing 100 is boiling. Of water, the most important thing on the planet. The Fahrenheit scale is a temperature scale invented by a Polock physicist Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (1686€“1736). Yes, and? -- I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like my Uncle Bob. Not screaming in terror like his passengers... |
#111
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:43:18 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:39:54 +0100, mike wrote: On 5/7/2018 1:23 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote: On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad thing. Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted. You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a problem. Why? What's so bad about dry air? People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working. There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the outside coils ice up. Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side. And the inside (cold) coils also ice up and quit working. At -20C. But they don't stop working when the freezer is warmer than that. BTW, a person can quit a job, a machine cannot quit, it stops. Just looked up heat pumps, and depending on the design, they can function down to -25C outdoor temperature. -- Police cordoned off Liverpool City Centre this morning when a suspicious object was discovered in a car. It later turned out to be a tax disc. |
#112
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:26:06 +0100, wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:23:04 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote: On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad thing. Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted. You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a problem. Why? What's so bad about dry air? People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working. There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the outside coils ice up. Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side. Even at 5-7 C they are not very efficient. That is why they usually have toaster wire strips in them. When you want to heat something up, it is hard to beat burning gas if you have it. Gas is really cheap here. Here too, but a heat pump sounds simpler. What is simpler than a burner a metal can and a fan? All the radiators/pumps/valves/pipes to distribute the heat. Most gas furnaces in the US are forced air distribution just like the AC unit and use the same duct system. Using water and radiators went away shortly after WWII. I never lived in a house with a radiator. There must be a reason America uses air and Britain uses water. Both seem to have advantages, but what would annoy me are draughts and noise, so I'd always fit water: http://resources.heatingoilexpress.c...-home-heating/ -- Das Computer Maschine Ist Nich Fur Gefingerenpoken Und Mittengrabben! Ist Easy Schnappen Der Springenwerken Mit Spitzensparken Und Poppenkorken! Das Rubbernecken Sightseeren Mus Keep Der Handz In Der Pockets, Relax Und Vatch Die Blinkenlights!! |
#113
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:30:24 +0100, wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:43:18 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:39:54 +0100, mike wrote: On 5/7/2018 1:23 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 21:13:18 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote: On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad thing. Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted. You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a problem. Why? What's so bad about dry air? People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working. There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the outside coils ice up. Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side. And the inside (cold) coils also ice up and quit working. At -20C. But they don't stop working when the freezer is warmer than that. BTW, a person can quit a job, a machine cannot quit, it stops. The outside coils on a heat pump are not in a box with regulated humidity. Again, maybe you should look at a dew point chart. They actually do use the same philosophy as a "frost free" freezer by heating the coils when they ice up but when it gets cold enough you spend as much energy heating the outside coils as the inside coils by running it is AC mode instead of heat mode. Non-frost-free freezers manage just fine. And the inside of a freezer is most certainly not dry. -- The Red Cross just knocked on my door and asked if we could contribute towards the floods in Lebanon. I said we'd love to, but our garden hose only reaches the driveway. |
#114
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:18:19 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:39:49 -0700, Bob F wrote: On 5/7/2018 10:16 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:51:54 +0100, trader_4 wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:27:17 +0100, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 5/7/2018 10:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats. For most of us, no need. We only use cooling here for two months. We have very efficient central heat and the AC goes into a window in the summer for cooling only. It can also get very cold here. In more mild areas, central AC with heat pump is common and works well. If you only cool for 2 months, I assume you heat for more than that. Why wouldn't you want a heat pump for that? Why wouldn't you want them both to be the same unit? You know so damn much, why are you asking us? Go figure it out yourself. I for one, won't educate you. All you do is turn your troll questions into a 300 post thread of BS. I've pointed out a superior system and asked why you're using the old one. I'm waiting for an answer. Since you are incapable of thinking yourself, it comes down to one thing: $ And not just megabucks - Gigabucks and terrabucks If it cost that much nobody would have them. -- Oh my goodness what a caper, someone's ****ed on the magic paper. |
#115
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:18:24 +0100, Bob F wrote:
On 5/7/2018 3:14 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote: On 05/07/2018 12:28 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [snip] Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted. Here, humidity is low in the winter. The cats don't like it when petting is accompanied by electric shocks. In my college dormitory in Boston, I had to approach my room door with my key held firmly to take the spark in the winter. If you approached with your bare hand, the 3/4 inch spark would really hurt. I've never understood that, I thought the fright/pain/shock came from the current, which is the same if you're holding a key. Yet I can't feel it at all with a key. So is it not actually an electric shock but instead the hot spark? -- Oh my goodness what a caper, someone's ****ed on the magic paper. |
#116
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
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#117
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:34:53 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 7 May 2018 10:42:48 -0700, Bob F wrote: On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote: Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with a cooler despite decades of using one. Thoughts? It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this: https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of my single-story house. Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats. -- You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about them. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle AC Monster Why bother with the gas at all? Just have enough heat pumps to pump heat in winter and summer. Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip heaters when outside temps get too low. Most "air source" heat pumps. Ground source or geothermals can pretty much handle it without heat-strips - even up here. Trouble is that needs a lot of digging to install. I hate digging. -- A bleached blonde and a natural blonde were on top of the Empire State Building. How do you tell them apart? The bleached blonde would never throw bread to the helicopters. |
#118
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:39:30 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 7 May 2018 13:47:02 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 3:43:32 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 20:33:27 +0100, rbowman wrote: On 05/07/2018 01:07 PM, wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 2:03:55 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:42:48 +0100, Bob F wrote: On 5/7/2018 10:24 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:37:05 +0100, Uncle Monster wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-5, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:05:56 +0100, wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 14:36:24 +0100, KenK wrote: Has anyone ever compared power usage between a swamp cooler and a small window A/C? I suspect the A/C uses a bit more power. or is it significantly more? It would be a lot more convenient than a cooler. There seem to be a lot of water pump, fan belt, pad water distribution and other problems with a cooler despite decades of using one. Thoughts? It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. You must have different "real AC units". Mine won't run in reverse. It's pretty much exactly like this: https://www.goodmanmfg.com/resources/heating-cooling-101/how-central-ac-systems-work Except it and the supply air ducts are located in the basement of my single-story house. Why on earth could an AC unit not run backwards? You just reverse the pump. Every one I've seen in the UK (commercial and home) has been able to do this. The controller usually has settings for heating, cooling, or automatic. On automatic you can simply set a range (say 18 - 22C) and if it goes over, it cools, if it goes under, it heats. -- You don't run it backwards. We have what are called,"Heat Pumps". The compressor always spins in the same direction but there is something called a "Reversing Valve" which reverses to flow of refrigerant through the system thus changing the direction of the heat transfer. I like a heat pump combined with a gas furnace because the electric strip heaters for auxiliary heat can be expensive to run. If it gets cold enough that you need auxiliary heat, I'd want a gas furnace. In the real world, I would actually prefer a high-efficiency air conditioner combined with a gas furnace and avoid the complexity and expense of a heat pump. One of the things I did for a living was installation and service of HVAC systems so I know a little bit about them. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle AC Monster Why bother with the gas at all? Just have enough heat pumps to pump heat in winter and summer. Heat pumps do not always heat enough. As the outside temp drops, they become less and less efficient. Most heat pumps use electric strip heaters when outside temps get too low. Then you need more heat pumps. I've been told they tend to be 400% efficient even in winter. Maybe not if you live somewhere like Alaska where it's way below zero. Do you guys say "way below thirty two"? We say "way below freezing". Average January nighttime low where I live is -7.8 C. Record low is -25.0 C. We can usually count on at least three nights that are below 18 C. Average July daytime high is 28.4 C. Record daytime high is 35 C. When we say 'way below zero' it's way below -18 C. Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that doesn't have a zero in a sensible place? C is easy - 0 is freezing 100 is boiling. Of water, the most important thing on the planet. Any such system is arbitrary and it makes no sense to complain about its arbitrariness. Cindy Hamilton The only real advantage to the celcius scale is it follows the metric - or "decimal" system - 100 degrees between freezing and boiling water. (instead of 180) That's a big advantage. Also the 0 at the same point as freezing. -- If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes? |
#119
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:46:55 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 16:13:18 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:59:34 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:11 +0100, wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:24 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 17:34:32 +0100, rbowman wrote: On 05/07/2018 07:44 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: It wouldn't matter to me which was more efficient. A swamp cooler is a pretend AC unit. It evaporates water, therefore humidifying the room. Also a real AC unit can run in reverse and serve as a heat pump for winter. In places where a swamp cooler works, a little more humidity isn't a bad thing. Why does anyone want humidity? If it's hot, humid air makes it feel hotter, as your sweat can't evaporate so easily. In cold weather, the damp cools you down more. So it's never wanted. You really should get out of Scotland sometimes. There are plenty of places where the humidity is very low. The house being too dry is a problem. Why? What's so bad about dry air? People run humidifiers in the winter. The other thing you miss is if it gets much below zero C, your heat pump stops working. There just is not enough available heat to do you any good and the outside coils ice up. Funny how a domestic freezer can easily make it down to -20C on the cold side. Even at 5-7 C they are not very efficient. That is why they usually have toaster wire strips in them. When you want to heat something up, it is hard to beat burning gas if you have it. Gas is really cheap here. Here too, but a heat pump sounds simpler. What is simpler than a burner a metal can and a fan? a hunk of peat on the grate. I detest fireplaces. When not in use, you can hear the neighbour's dog through the chimney. And presumably you're losing a lot of heat through it too. -- "Have you been hunting bear lately?" "No, the grass tickles." |
#120
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A/C vs. swamp cooler?
On Tue, 08 May 2018 01:59:08 +0100, rbowman wrote:
On 05/07/2018 01:43 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: Why on earth would you still use an antiquated measurement system that doesn't have a zero in a sensible place? C is easy - 0 is freezing 100 is boiling. Of water, the most important thing on the planet. To avoid using the same system as the Eurotrash? Not everything they do is stupid, only 99% of it. -- On a Continental Flight with a very "senior" flight attendant crew, the pilot said, "Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached cruising altitude and will be turning down the cabin lights. This is for your comfort, and to enhance the appearance of your flight attendants." |
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