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#41
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
In sci.physics, Wayne
wrote on Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:28:05 GMT : wrote in : In article , wrote: In article 5TMLc.28901$9I.20458@okepread02, "Richard Henry" wrote: snip I forgot to comment on heat prevention. Don't use things that generate heat. Light bulbs, computers, TVs, vacuum cleaners (yay!), radios. I haven't figured out how to keep the refrigerator's heat out of the house other than to not open the door. /BAH IOW, just stop living until the weather cools off. Sorry, not an option! There are certain difficulties with high heat and humidity which we nevertheless muddle through; of course another option is simply walking away from the house (after closing it up) and going to the nearest air-conditioned theater (which basically means one pays for the owner's A/C therein by buying a movie ticket), or to a swimming hole (either natural or artificial), which now means a tradeoff between cooling, water exposure, and sun exposure (too much sun = sunburn, ouch; waterproof sunblocker will of course help here), or the beach (around here, the Pacific's relatively cool, which means the beach is, too; I don't know if the Atlantic is the same or not but would hope so) or even go on a trip to where it's still winter, if one has a good excuse to, say, purchase a plane ticket to certain parts of Australia (it's winter down there, season-wise), South Africa, or South America below the equator. Or simply go north enough to where the heat is more bearable. The main problem (AFAIK): mosquitoes in the very far north during summer are reputed to be voracious. -- #191, It's still legal to go .sigless. |
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#42
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
In article ,
Wayne wrote: wrote in : In article , wrote: In article 5TMLc.28901$9I.20458@okepread02, "Richard Henry" wrote: snip I forgot to comment on heat prevention. Don't use things that generate heat. Light bulbs, computers, TVs, vacuum cleaners (yay!), radios. I haven't figured out how to keep the refrigerator's heat out of the house other than to not open the door. /BAH IOW, just stop living until the weather cools off. Sorry, not an option! That's an extreme position. I live just fine :-). But you can make living style decisions that will reduce costs. Doing the hot cooking outdoors may be one. Not turning on lights from habit is another. Turning off lights is another. Two 60W light bulbs seem to raise the temp in my living room a couple of degrees. My Dad keeps complaining about how hot it is but still turns on two halogen lights at night. Those things could almost heat the house. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#43
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
In article ,
Wayne wrote: wrote in : In article 5TMLc.28901$9I.20458@okepread02, "Richard Henry" wrote: snip How do I "arrange tree shade"? Trees in big planters on wheels? You can. Awnings or shutters help. Shutters are neat in that you can shut out the sunlight and keep the airflow going. Curtains block air flow. I'd have to see the layout of your yard and house to tell if growing stuff would help. snip Most of your suggestions are helpful but they are not a solution to the heat of the desert Southwest. Definitely not :-). I'm in the northeast. .. Shade helps, of course, but when the "cool" night air is 95-100 degrees, the only things that bring relief are swamp coolers and a/c. Australians build their houses on posts. The air flows over and under during the hot seasons. Then they close up the underneath "shutters" when it gets colder. If I were in southwest, I might dig a hole and live underground. Tahitians have large platforms outside and that's where they sleep. However, in both of these cases, wind exists. snip Fans, especially ceiling fans, certainly do help and allow you to maintain a more evenly distributed temperature. The constant air movement makes a slightly warmer temperature more tolerable. However, in hot climates and without a/c, they only blow hot air. That's barely more tolerable than nothing at all. It helps with the evaporation of sweat, nature's cooling mechanism. I don't know why but, if I shut up the house and run the fan during humid days, it seems to lower the humidity. snip I put on my winter woolies before I walk in the grocery store. It's ****ing freezing in those stores...but not as cold as the post office. There is no mystery about why those people go postal; their brains get frozen to the point of no possible electrical activity. I want to put on a wool face mask when I walk into those buildings. You clearly don't require as much cooling as some people do. To me, it's blessed relief to walk into a supercooled office or store. Males seem to need more cooling than females. A 5000 BTU a/c would barely keep a closet cool when the temp outside is 110-112 degrees F. Right. I was not talking about that level of temps. I'd live underground in that environment. Wouldn't straw bales on the outside surface of your house reduce the cooling you need inside? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#44
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
Actually, yes there is electricity in a car AC system. The clutch on the
compressor takes electricity. There are often controls which turn the clutch off and on, which are electric. My GM vehicle has an electric low pressure cutout switch for the suction side. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com "greywolf42" wrote in message ... 2. Use AC for car in a hot summer day Temperature outside = 80F, Temp of a car parked in sun for one hour = very hot, don't know exact temp After getting into the car Method A: open windows, drive for a moment then close the windows and start AC. - mine Method B: Start AC right away without opening windows. - wife's Question: which one make car temp drop faster and which one costs less electricity? Method A here will cool the air inside the car faster. But the main source of heat in the car is not the air, but the roof, seats, floor, windows and dashboard. They've all been heated to uncomfortable levels, and the heat capacity of the air is minimal, compared to the rest. Once the air has been blown out (which will take about 2 seconds), you can safely close the windows. There is no electricity in a car AC system (except in an electric car)... the AC compressor runs off of an engine belt. -- greywolf42 ubi dubium ibi libertas {remove planet for return e-mail} |
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#45
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
More inserted.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com "tom" wrote in message om... Can not convince wife about two things. Just want to bring it here for a serious judgement: 1. Use Air conditioner for home at night: Temperature outside = 69F, Temp in home = 81F, Air conditioner trigger set to 75F method A. With windows being open - My way method B. With windows being closed - Wife's way Question: which one make house temp drop faster and which one costs less electricity? SM: Depends in large part on the outdoor humidity. If it is very humid out, letting humid air in will really load down the AC unit. If it is dry out, then open windows and window fans are far more cost effective. 2. Use AC for car in a hot summer day Temperature outside = 80F, Temp of a car parked in sun for one hour = very hot, don't know exact temp After getting into the car Method A: open windows, drive for a moment then close the windows and start AC. - mine Method B: Start AC right away without opening windows. - wife's Question: which one make car temp drop faster and which one costs less electricity? SM: I have no doubt that open the windows drops the temp rapidly from very hot to outdoor temp. But in that time, you could have the AC starting to pump out cold air (as the other fellow said). And you have humidity to be concerned. I'd be tempted to keep the windows closed, so the AC can remove humidity. Thanks! -Tom |
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#46
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
"The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message ... There are certain difficulties with high heat and humidity which we nevertheless muddle through; of course another option is simply walking away from the house (after closing it up) and going to the nearest air-conditioned theater (which basically means one pays for the owner's A/C therein by buying a movie ticket), or to a swimming hole (either natural or artificial), which now means a tradeoff between cooling, water exposure, and sun exposure (too much sun = sunburn, ouch; waterproof sunblocker will of course help here), or the beach (around here, the Pacific's relatively cool, which means the beach is, too; I don't know if the Atlantic is the same or not but would hope so) or even go on a trip to where it's still winter, if one has a good excuse to, say, purchase a plane ticket to certain parts of Australia (it's winter down there, season-wise), South Africa, or South America below the equator. Yesterday we had a break in our cooling routine. An automobile took down a power pole a couple of blocks away, so we were without power until dark. We spent some of the time in the breezy shade watching the power company crews repairing the damage (the pole taken down was right at the boundary of opverhead and underground cables, and the accident sheared off the descenders, so as well as a new pole, a length of the underground cables had to be pulled out of the conduit and new cables fed in). I got a couple of bags of ice from the mini-mart and put the meat, milk and mayo in coolers. Then we all went over to the country club for the afternoon and sat around the pool. |
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#47
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
wrote in message ... My Dad keeps complaining about how hot it is but still turns on two halogen lights at night. Those things could almost heat the house. Our local utility, SDG&E, is offering free replacemnts for halogen torchiere lamps. I haven't traded yet, but I presume the new lights contain fluorescent bulbs. |
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#48
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
Put back of refrigerator through an exterior wall. Or put the coils on the
bottom ducting in and out through PVC pipe like the new furnaces. Of course, this is likely to be impractical. But a cute idea. "Oh, them pipes? I didn't get a 90+ furnace, that's just my refrigerator". -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com wrote in message ... In article , wrote: In article 5TMLc.28901$9I.20458@okepread02, "Richard Henry" wrote: snip I forgot to comment on heat prevention. Don't use things that generate heat. Light bulbs, computers, TVs, vacuum cleaners (yay!), radios. I haven't figured out how to keep the refrigerator's heat out of the house other than to not open the door. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#49
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
Might be mercury or sodium.
If the light is bluish, it's mercury. If it's yellowish, it's sodium. I am told the bulbs may be the same size, but they are not interchangable. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com "Richard Henry" wrote in message news:4y9Mc.21032$Fj6.10219@lakeread07... wrote in message ... My Dad keeps complaining about how hot it is but still turns on two halogen lights at night. Those things could almost heat the house. Our local utility, SDG&E, is offering free replacemnts for halogen torchiere lamps. I haven't traded yet, but I presume the new lights contain fluorescent bulbs. |
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#51
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote: If you wish to communicate on newsgroups, please don't toppost. Put back of refrigerator through an exterior wall. Moving the fridge into a pantry (which doesn't exist in houses anymore) is also another way. Putting yet another hole in a wall will create heating loss in the winter and critter access into the house. I thought about putting the fridge on the porch but that won't work for winter. ...Or put the coils on the bottom ducting in and out through PVC pipe like the new furnaces. Of course, this is likely to be impractical. But a cute idea. "Oh, them pipes? I didn't get a 90+ furnace, that's just my refrigerator". Will venting make the fridge not work? I don't know how they're constructed these days since I'm too weak to turn one upsidedown. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#52
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
In article ,
Wayne wrote: wrote in : In article , Wayne wrote: wrote in : In article , wrote: In article 5TMLc.28901$9I.20458@okepread02, "Richard Henry" wrote: snip I forgot to comment on heat prevention. Don't use things that generate heat. Light bulbs, computers, TVs, vacuum cleaners (yay!), radios. I haven't figured out how to keep the refrigerator's heat out of the house other than to not open the door. /BAH IOW, just stop living until the weather cools off. Sorry, not an option! That's an extreme position. I live just fine :-). But you can make living style decisions that will reduce costs. Doing the hot cooking outdoors may be one. Not turning on lights from habit is another. Turning off lights is another. Two 60W light bulbs seem to raise the temp in my living room a couple of degrees. My Dad keeps complaining about how hot it is but still turns on two halogen lights at night. Those things could almost heat the house. /BAH I do most of that already. I use our grill and sideburner for most meals and even plug in the crockpot on the patio instead of the kitchen. Almost every light fixture in our home is equipped with a compact fluorescent, and most are kept off unless really needed. I bought and used my first ones this spring. They still generate heat. .. We're currently renting, so making modifications to the house is out of the question, as is any extensive planting for shade. Not being allowed to make mods to the place you live can also be considered a feature :-). Making a deal with a landlord about mods is an option to explore. Hanging rugs on the inside of outside walls can substitute for insulation if you're not allowed to do that stuff. Caulking works for both summer and winter. Duct tape is a gal's best friend. I spent one weekend one winter feeling for leaks. Then I taped it. It made interesting decor but I wasn't cold. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#53
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
In article ,
"Michael Baugh" wrote: If you want to have people ignore your post, rather than scroll past all the stuff they've already read because you haven't learned to edit the post before you send it, be sure to post at the bottom. Much more efficient. It's not, and never will be, more efficient when the postings are conversations. It is not unusual for me to have 100 going at the same time. It is very usual for three or four drifts of conversation to be within one post. Having a history of a discussion before I reply to it is useful for me, and it gives context to the conversation for those who dropped in for second. Newsgroups, by design, is a conversation that doesn't happen in realtime. pins /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#54
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
If you want to have people ignore your post,
rather than scroll past all the stuff they've already read because you haven't learned to edit the post before you send it, be sure to post at the bottom. Much more efficient. wrote in message ... In article , "Stormin Mormon" wrote: If you wish to communicate on newsgroups, please don't toppost. Put back of refrigerator through an exterior wall. Moving the fridge into a pantry (which doesn't exist in houses anymore) is also another way. Putting yet another hole in a wall will create heating loss in the winter and critter access into the house. I thought about putting the fridge on the porch but that won't work for winter. ...Or put the coils on the bottom ducting in and out through PVC pipe like the new furnaces. Of course, this is likely to be impractical. But a cute idea. "Oh, them pipes? I didn't get a 90+ furnace, that's just my refrigerator". Will venting make the fridge not work? I don't know how they're constructed these days since I'm too weak to turn one upsidedown. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#56
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Venting fridge heat
In theory, it is possible to duct air under the fridge (or behind it) to
duct the heat out of the house. I've never seen it done, though. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com wrote in message ... In article , "Stormin Mormon" wrote: If you wish to communicate on newsgroups, please don't toppost. Put back of refrigerator through an exterior wall. Moving the fridge into a pantry (which doesn't exist in houses anymore) is also another way. Putting yet another hole in a wall will create heating loss in the winter and critter access into the house. I thought about putting the fridge on the porch but that won't work for winter. ...Or put the coils on the bottom ducting in and out through PVC pipe like the new furnaces. Of course, this is likely to be impractical. But a cute idea. "Oh, them pipes? I didn't get a 90+ furnace, that's just my refrigerator". Will venting make the fridge not work? I don't know how they're constructed these days since I'm too weak to turn one upsidedown. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#57
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
Please trim excess text before replying.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com wrote in message ... In article , Wayne wrote: wrote in : In article , Wayne wrote: wrote in : In article , wrote: In article 5TMLc.28901$9I.20458@okepread02, "Richard Henry" wrote: snip I forgot to comment on heat prevention. Don't use things that generate heat. Light bulbs, computers, TVs, vacuum cleaners (yay!), radios. I haven't figured out how to keep the refrigerator's heat out of the house other than to not open the door. /BAH IOW, just stop living until the weather cools off. Sorry, not an option! That's an extreme position. I live just fine :-). But you can make living style decisions that will reduce costs. Doing the hot cooking outdoors may be one. Not turning on lights from habit is another. Turning off lights is another. Two 60W light bulbs seem to raise the temp in my living room a couple of degrees. My Dad keeps complaining about how hot it is but still turns on two halogen lights at night. Those things could almost heat the house. /BAH I do most of that already. I use our grill and sideburner for most meals and even plug in the crockpot on the patio instead of the kitchen. Almost every light fixture in our home is equipped with a compact fluorescent, and most are kept off unless really needed. I bought and used my first ones this spring. They still generate heat. .. We're currently renting, so making modifications to the house is out of the question, as is any extensive planting for shade. Not being allowed to make mods to the place you live can also be considered a feature :-). Making a deal with a landlord about mods is an option to explore. Hanging rugs on the inside of outside walls can substitute for insulation if you're not allowed to do that stuff. Caulking works for both summer and winter. Duct tape is a gal's best friend. I spent one weekend one winter feeling for leaks. Then I taped it. It made interesting decor but I wasn't cold. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#58
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Efficient use of Newsgroups -- how to have your message ignored
Plan B (to get your messages ignored) is to leave multi level forwarding,
and plenty of ch icken scratches. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com "Michael Baugh" wrote in message . .. If you want to have people ignore your post, rather than scroll past all the stuff they've already read because you haven't learned to edit the post before you send it, be sure to post at the bottom. Much more efficient. wrote in message ... |
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#59
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Venting fridge heat
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...
In theory, it is possible to duct air under the fridge (or behind it) to duct the heat out of the house. I've never seen it done, though. Sure, it's possible but rather pointless. Harry C. |
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#60
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote: Please trim excess text before replying. Like you did not do? Sigh! I'm out of Kleenix; you'll have to get your own and apply it to your nose. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#61
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Efficient use of Usenet Posts (not ac)
If I trim excess text on the complaint email, it wouldn't make the point.
How about review several of my other posts? Maybe you can spot what my real posting pattern is? or are you too busy looking for reasons to complain? NOTE: Please do not quote or atribute people who are busy being complaining jerks. (Guess I didn't do that either?) -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com wrote in message ... In article , "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Please trim excess text before replying. Like you did not do? Sigh! I'm out of Kleenix; you'll have to get your own and apply it to your nose. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#62
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Venting fridge heat
Ever heard of a remote condenser??
"Harry Conover" wrote in message om... "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... In theory, it is possible to duct air under the fridge (or behind it) to duct the heat out of the house. I've never seen it done, though. Sure, it's possible but rather pointless. Harry C. |
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#63
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
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#64
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
In article ,
Wayne wrote: wrote in : In article , "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Please trim excess text before replying. Like you did not do? Sigh! I'm out of Kleenix; you'll have to get your own and apply it to your nose. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :-) Or the screen. At least he knew he was a fraud. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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#65
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Venting fridge heat
"HeatMan" wrote in message link.net... Ever heard of a remote condenser?? Gee...and all these resturants must be obsolete..  "Harry Conover" wrote in message om... "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... In theory, it is possible to duct air under the fridge (or behind it) to duct the heat out of the house. I've never seen it done, though. Sure, it's possible but rather pointless. Harry C. |
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#66
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Venting fridge heat
"CBHVAC" wrote in message ... "HeatMan" wrote in message link.net... Ever heard of a remote condenser?? Gee...and all these resturants must be obsolete.. Hey, if the Bride would let me, I'd have a remote condenser for my HH 'fridge. Of course, it would be a commercial 'fridge too.... |
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#67
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Venting fridge heat
We agree. Pointless.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com "Harry Conover" wrote in message om... "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... In theory, it is possible to duct air under the fridge (or behind it) to duct the heat out of the house. I've never seen it done, though. Sure, it's possible but rather pointless. Harry C. |
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#68
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... Put back of refrigerator through an exterior wall. Or put the coils on the bottom ducting in and out through PVC pipe like the new furnaces. Of course, this is likely to be impractical. But a cute idea. "Oh, them pipes? I didn't get a 90+ furnace, that's just my refrigerator". -- Christopher A. Young This is Turtle. Stormy , Refrigerators are not designed to run in outdoor / Ambiant temperatures because it tells you to turn the refrigerator off or not run the refrigerator in temperatures above 95ºF . If you set it up like this you would have to turn your refrigerator off when it gets hot outdoors. I like to keep my refrigerator running all the time and not just when it is cool outdoors. TURTLE --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/2004 |
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#69
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Venting fridge heat
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:08:09 GMT, "HeatMan" wrote:
"CBHVAC" wrote in message ... "HeatMan" wrote in message link.net... Ever heard of a remote condenser?? Gee...and all these resturants must be obsolete.. Hey, if the Bride would let me, I'd have a remote condenser for my HH 'fridge. Of course, it would be a commercial 'fridge too.... It's called a split system, and the design is completely different. The trouble with moving the HS (high side) of your domestic unit outdoors in cool weather is in the projected enthalpy gain on the LS (low side) vs the anticipated compressor run time [very indirectly, but not necessarily, its duty cycle]. Specifically, it is designed to cool the freezer by running the pump (compressor) long enough to reach design temperature, with everything in the freezer section frozen, while the refrigerator section remains at equilibrium with the ambient [kitchen air temp] to maintain 0 to 4 deg C, withstanding the heat gain via the walls, door seal, etc. The heat gain [through imperfect insulation] is actually =necessary=, because the system has only one pump (compressor) [and usually only one loop]. The heat gain, through the insulation, provides for the pump cycling, and the freezer runs colder, because most of the evaporator surface is in the freezer, and the freezer space is usually smaller. Therefore, the ratio of cooling enthalpy to gain through the walls is greater in the freezer section, and thus it will be at a lower equilibrium temperature than the refrigerator. But the condenser is designed for ambient temperature of room-temp, more or less stable, +/- within 10 to 15 deg C or so. If ambient temperature falls much below about 13 deg C (55 deg F), we have problems, sometimes severe, as the unit struggles to maintain the differential between refer/freezer compartments. Worse still, no simple adjustment will compensate, since outdoor temperatures can fluctuate widely. What happens? When air over condenser drops much below design parameters, the system pressures also drop. At first, efficiency improves slightly, but, as evaporator temperature continues to drop, the increased gradient leads to increasingly accelerated heat loss into the evaporator. To prevent everything in the refer compartment from freezing, the "cold control" shuts the pump down. This is called "short-cycling". If severe enough, the pump will simply not run long enough to keep the freezer cold enough, as the temperature "split" (gradient) is too great between the refrigerant and the refrigerated product/space. Furthermore, efficiency actually =suffers= at this point, as well, because the LS is now running in a depression [partial "vacuum"], rather than at a slight positive pressure. This translates to a larger refrigerant vapor volume, but at a lower enthalpy. The trade-off in duty cycle is seldom a wash, even though the run-time per cycle is quite short. Short-cycling is seldom very efficient (proportional heating control aside g). Exhausting the condenser waste heat outdoors IS an option, but just don't redirect the condenser air =supply= from outdoors, as well. Take that from the room, and let make-up air from another room replace it. It is 200 or 300 watts of waste heat, on the average. In the winter, however, you WANT this heat of compression. So, putting the HS outdoors is insidious. Don't do it, unless you have a split system, and one specifically designed as such (usually with TXV [aka TEV] metering). You'd be ****ing up a rope. -- -john wide-open at throttle dot info ~~~~~~~~ "The first step in intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts." - Aldo Leopold ~~~~~~~~ |
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#70
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Venting fridge heat
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:08:09 GMT, "HeatMan" wrote:
Of course, it would be a commercial 'fridge too.... Revco rocks! :-) Whatever happened to them? -- -john wide-open at throttle dot info ~~~~~~~~ "Stealing our copyright provisions in the dead of night when no-one is looking is piracy. It's not piracy when kids swap music over the Internet using Napster..." - Courtney Love ~~~~~~~~ |
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#71
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:25:25 -0500, "TURTLE" wrote:
Refrigerators are not designed to run in outdoor / Ambiant temperatures BINGO! Maybe I should have just left it at that... BUT! Air over condenser -- Intake: from living space Exhaust: to outdoors why not? It's a few hundred watts of unwanted summer heat! -- -john wide-open at throttle dot info ~~~~~~~~ "The first step in intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts." - Aldo Leopold ~~~~~~~~ |
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#72
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
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#73
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:12:39 -0600, "Timm Simpkins"
wrote: Shutting the windows only works if no direct sunlight never hits the windows. If it does, the temperature will increase faster inside the house than it would with the windows open 100% correct. Gotta block them rays, or forget it! -- -john wide-open at throttle dot info ~~~~~~~~ Marriage is the chief cause of divorce. -Groucho Marx ~~~~~~~~ |
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#74
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
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#75
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TYPO! Efficient use of Air conditioner
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 20:40:07 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
wrote: Add 80000 BTU/hr for that. should read: Add 8000 BTU/hr for that. sorry 'bout that -- -john wide-open at throttle dot info ~~~~~~~~ I don't know of anybody that has a perfect life - Marie Osmond ~~~~~~~~ |
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#76
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
wrote:
In article , Wayne wrote: wrote in : In article 5TMLc.28901$9I.20458@okepread02, "Richard Henry" wrote: snip How do I "arrange tree shade"? Trees in big planters on wheels? You can. Awnings or shutters help. Shutters are neat in that you can shut out the sunlight and keep the airflow going. Curtains block air flow. I'd have to see the layout of your yard and house to tell if growing stuff would help. snip Most of your suggestions are helpful but they are not a solution to the heat of the desert Southwest. Definitely not :-). I'm in the northeast. .. Shade helps, of course, but when the "cool" night air is 95-100 degrees, the only things that bring relief are swamp coolers and a/c. Australians build their houses on posts. The air flows over and under during the hot seasons. Then they close up the underneath "shutters" when it gets colder. If I were in southwest, I might dig a hole and live underground. Tahitians have large platforms outside and that's where they sleep. However, in both of these cases, wind exists. snip Fans, especially ceiling fans, certainly do help and allow you to maintain a more evenly distributed temperature. The constant air movement makes a slightly warmer temperature more tolerable. However, in hot climates and without a/c, they only blow hot air. That's barely more tolerable than nothing at all. It helps with the evaporation of sweat, nature's cooling mechanism. I don't know why but, if I shut up the house and run the fan during humid days, it seems to lower the humidity. snip I put on my winter woolies before I walk in the grocery store. It's ****ing freezing in those stores...but not as cold as the post office. There is no mystery about why those people go postal; their brains get frozen to the point of no possible electrical activity. I want to put on a wool face mask when I walk into those buildings. You clearly don't require as much cooling as some people do. To me, it's blessed relief to walk into a supercooled office or store. Males seem to need more cooling than females. A 5000 BTU a/c would barely keep a closet cool when the temp outside is 110-112 degrees F. Right. I was not talking about that level of temps. I'd live underground in that environment. Wouldn't straw bales on the outside surface of your house reduce the cooling you need inside? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. Older houses in the US (pre-A/C) are often built the same way. Very high crawl spaces with vents to open or close depending on season. If you are lucky enough to have a house with a crawl space a small fan circulating air through the space will save lots of money on A/C costs. Even more effective is adding a small fan to ventelate the space under the roof. -- Russ Lyttle Not Powered by ActiveX http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec/p...phy/logos.html |
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
Wayne wrote:
wrote in : In article 5TMLc.28901$9I.20458@okepread02, "Richard Henry" wrote: wrote in message ... snip .. Unless you have a very small house and moderate climate, that small of a unit will do very little. I think most people would consider the house small. However, I also know about arranging tree shade, insulation, and do not need the house to be 65 degrees for comfort. 65 is too cold. If I can get the house cooled down below 70 at night, I don't need the A/C to be on at all. I simply shut the windows to keep the heat out and run a fan for circulation. The house doesn't get hot until ~17:00. By then it's usually cool enough outside to cool the house. How do I "arrange tree shade"? Trees in big planters on wheels? You can. Awnings or shutters help. Shutters are neat in that you can shut out the sunlight and keep the airflow going. Curtains block air flow. I'd have to see the layout of your yard and house to tell if growing stuff would help. snip Most of your suggestions are helpful but they are not a solution to the heat of the desert Southwest. Shade helps, of course, but when the "cool" night air is 95-100 degrees, the only things that bring relief are swamp coolers and a/c. The only thing you have to do is cool the one room, then move the cooled air out and the warmer air in. That won't cut it. In San Diego, it has been pretty hot, but not too humid, the last few days. We have survived without A/C by running oscillating fans indoors and seeking shade/breeze locations outdoors (except for my retaining-wall project, which is on an unshaded south-facing hill). That wall will absorb and the emit heat. A good thing in winter, but not desired in summer. Shading it with plants that deleaf in the winter is one way to arrange shade. ...Upstairs we keep a fan in the south-facing window and a ceiling fan running all the time in the master bedroom. My son's room faces east - a window fan turned on after dark makes that room comparitively frigid. I cool the house down by placing a fan facing out and running it. If you have an attic fan, then you want to place the first floor fans facing in but only run them that way when it's cooler outside than inside. During the heat of the day, shut the windows or leave a couple strategically placed windows open a crack for oxygen. Then run fans that circulate the air inside only, in a down to up direction. Fans, especially ceiling fans, certainly do help and allow you to maintain a more evenly distributed temperature. The constant air movement makes a slightly warmer temperature more tolerable. However, in hot climates and without a/c, they only blow hot air. That's barely more tolerable than nothing at all. If things get really bad, we drive down to the grocery store and stand in front of the meat cooler. Now there's an option. I'll take my folding chair! I put on my winter woolies before I walk in the grocery store. It's ****ing freezing in those stores...but not as cold as the post office. There is no mystery about why those people go postal; their brains get frozen to the point of no possible electrical activity. I want to put on a wool face mask when I walk into those buildings. You clearly don't require as much cooling as some people do. To me, it's blessed relief to walk into a supercooled office or store. A 5000 BTU a/c would barely keep a closet cool when the temp outside is 110-112 degrees F. -- Wayne in Phoenix If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it. I live in Tucson. My A/C costs are about $30-$40/mo. My neighbors usually pay over $300/mo. Most of the day I only use air circulation and shade to keep the house comfortable. For the time I do run the A/C, it is usually set for 85. If an area gets heat-soaked, it costs more to cool it down, thus the 85 setting. I keep supply vents to unused areas closed down. The thermostat is located in the most used area. -- Russ Lyttle Not Powered by ActiveX http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec/p...phy/logos.html |
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
In sci.physics, ~^Johnny^~
wrote on Sat, 31 Jul 2004 20:40:07 -0700 : On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:26:53 GMT, (Bruce) wrote: In sci.physics wrote: The best use of a house A/C is to use it with a fan. Nobody believes me when I say that I cool my house with a 5000 BTU A/C and two fans. I believe you if you tell me you live in an ice chest. I live in a 600 sq ft cottage. I also live in a mild climate, but I run a lot of electronic stuff. Add 80000 BTU/hr for that. Bottom line, my calculations for cooling come out to 22,000 BTU/hr. Take off my 8,000, and you still need 14,000. That's for a 600 sq ft cottage in Northern California, on the coast (literally). Ten miles from the beach! 5000 BTU/hr? I love geek chicks (I am married to one), but, respectfully: NO WAY! Sorry, bah. Hmph. Metrically challenged. :-P But lessee. 600 ft^2 = 55.75 m^2 Assuming your ceilings average 2.5m (my ceilings are 94" = 2.39m, but there are issues such as entryways and high ceilings), one gets a total volume of 139.38 m^3. A computer runs typically 300W, maybe 400W nowadays. (I'm not entirely certain if the rating on the power supply is the consumption from the wallsocket or the production at the motherboard/device level.) 400W translates to 1.44 megaJoules/hr. 5000 BTU = 5.27529726 megaJoules, according to Google. 5000 BTU/hr = 1465 W. An interesting computation is to take a single 100W light bulb and place it in a room which is sealed (in the thermal sense). Assuming your dimensions above, a pressure of 101350 Pascal, a standard air composition of 29 grams/mole, a room temperature of 20 C = 293 K, and 1 degree C per kg-cal (which probably isn't quite right, as this is for liquid water, not air) or 4180 J per kg-K, and doing a bit of other hand-waving approximation (heated air expands, for example), one gets n = PV/(RT) = 101350 * 139.38 / (8.314472 * 293) = 5798.58 moles or 168.2 kg. and then one gets 702.9 kiloJoules per degree C temperature rise. 100 W = 360 kiloJoules per hour. Not exactly the World's Best Heater, is it? :-) It would take almost 2 hours to increase the temperature in the domicile by 1 degree Celsius with that light bulb. Therefore, there's a bit of slop available here. Even with a good 1800 W heater it would take almost 7 minutes to raise the temperature of your air 1 degree C. I'd be more worried about the insolation -- which is 1,350 W/m^2. Since we've established you have 55.75 m^2 of roof area, and can compute that you have, according to my figures, at least approximately four 25 m * 2.5 m = 62.5 m^2 walls, or 250 m^2 of walls, of which half might be illuminated at any one time (there are a *lot* of issues here, though, as the tilted sun will be looking at something generally hexagonal, and you're probably not living in a big box anyway, but a bunch of smaller ones, with corridors :-); however, the sunlight also reflects off the ground onto your housewalls ), yielding at the very most an additional heat load of 244 kW, and probably less than that, depending on what color your exterior walls and roof are. That'll heat up the air in a hurry: 35 seconds per degree C temperature rise. It gets weirder if one factors in the heat retentitivity of the walls as well. Air isn't the only thing that heats up. Also, the heat leaks through the walls (either direction), which is one reason people like high R-factor insulation in colder climes (and should in warmer climes, too). So as the air in the home heats up, the heat will leak out, too (it's not nearly as sealed as a hypothetical thermodynamic system!) back to the ambient -- although admittedly the ambient air is also heating up because of good old Sol. I'd need more data -- average temperature swings in your area and all that -- before I can make a more detailed computation, assuming I'm even close to right here; I'd have to look at the thermal characteristics of nitrogen, for instance, to make a more accurate determination of how fast the air will heat up. http://www.webelements.com/webelemen...t/N/thdyn.html gives me no less than five constants for N2 gas, in rather inconvenient but workable units (1 mole N2 = 28 grams; however, our atmosphere consists of very roughly a mixture of 4 parts nitrogen, 1 part oxygen, and a smidge of argon, which is why I used 29 grams/mole earlier). And of course there's probably a good HVAC estimator somewhere on the Web anyway. :-) An interesting side issue: there is an old unit of "1 ton" of air conditioning. Apparently the basis was the cooling capability of 1 ton of ice, but the standard conversion is now about 1 ton = 12,000 BTU/hr, although I'm not entirely sure. [.sigsnip] -- #191, It's still legal to go .sigless. |
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
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Efficient use of Air conditioner
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