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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

Much better to
discard it and get something with a longer handle
https://tinyurl.com/yag6ddqr


That "teloscopic torque wrench" was a new tool to my eyes!
(Too bad it doesn't take a socket because it's 17/19 & while I need 21mm).

It must be a clever internal mechanism that calculates the torque correctly
when you can change the distance along the lever!

Basically, I was asking if it's short because that way, a normal human can
only apply about 85 foot pounds which is all they can do with that short
bar and their hands?


But don't most people jump on it using their whole body weight ?


Truth be told, I've used my appreciable body weight for /removing/ lug
bolts ... but never for tightening them.
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wrote:

You can always
rotate the socket 1/4 turn on the 1/2" drive to get 12th of a turn when
space to swing the bar is tight.


I never thought of that!
The math confused me so may I reiterate what I "think" you just said?

Am I correct in assuming you're saying that you can rotate a 12-point
socket by 1/12th, while you can only rotate a 6-point socket by 1/6th ---
but ... if you cleverly rotate /both/ the 6-point socket by 1/6th and the
half-inch socket wrench end of the socket by 1/4, you get the same effect?


yes, but it is so rarely needed it is not worth worrying about


It's still nice to know that you can get the same angle effect out of a six
point socket that you can out of a 12-point socket, simply by rotating the
4-point extension bar location.

Personally, my tools just "grew" over time, where I have some 12 points and
some 6 points where some are normal sockets, deep sockets, and impact
sockets, where I wish I had known what I'm learning in this thread in the
beginning.

Seems to me that the /first/ set anyone should get are normal length & deep
six-point sockets (both metric & SAE).

The metric & SAE 12-point sets should come next, I would think.
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On 18/02/2018 20:37, ultred ragnusen wrote:
wrote:

I've heard people say use the shortest extension bar you
can get your hands on. I don't understand why. It should be the same torque
if I used a 16-inch extension bar, right?


no because some force will just be twisting the bar, Imagine a bar a
mile long, you twist one end with a known force, the other end would not
move.


That makes too much sense for Usenet!

I guess there are two faults with a 20" extension bar that a 2" extenstion
bar wouldh't have then.

1. Some of the measured torque is wasted in twisting the bar, and,
2. Any extension bar not at 90 degrees to the nut also changes the torque.

Both effects are probably slight - but perhaps measurable?


certainly, but there is no need for such precision in this application.
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wrote:

better to leave the tyres alone, rotating the position of tyres went out
of fashion about 60 years ago.


I realize all the responses (so far) to this post were trolls or jokes, but
if you were actually serious, please do read my explanation below of what I
feel is the inherent value in rotating tires periodically.

In my case, the suspension is aligned (caster, camber, and toe anyway), and
tires are selected, mounted, and balanced (statically), and pressurized,
and repaired (from the inside with a patchplug), and rotated by me, so
everything about those tires is up to me, and not to a mechanic who is paid
by the hour who might skip some of the steps that I do (see below) to save
time.

Of course, I can only meticulously statically balance the wheel-and-tire
assembly, but the dynamic-balance test of driving at speeds shows no
dynamic imbalance that can be felt by the driver.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/...ic_balance.jpg

Given the well-aligned vehicle is driven daily on mountainous hilly steep
very windy roads, including a mandatory K-turn daily, the fronts inevitably
develop a unidirectional feathering that can be barely felt by the hand
which is palpable consistently at around 4K miles.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/attac...828_100512.jpg

Since the spare is a different brand, I rotate in the classic four-wheel
II-X-II-X pattern that puts each tire at each of the four corners over a
period of 12K miles (about 8 to 10 months of driving) - and - when I rotate
- I inspect the entire carcass for pebbles & shards as shown here from this
weekend.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter1.jpg

To overcome some of the boredom of plucking detritus out of the tread, I
count the objects removed, where there are always more than 50 per tire, so
I try to approach a count of 100 objects removed, some of which turn out to
be this (staple?) shard I found yesterday.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter2.jpg

While you intimate that the periodic inspection and rotation of tires has
"gone out of style", my reasonably logical position is that the selection,
mounting, balancing, pressurizing, inspection, repair, and rotation of
tires is a reasonable and rational act that results in increased safety and
life of the tires - partly because removing something like this shard never
goes out of style!
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg
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wrote:

No need to with those little **** ant things you blokes call cars.


That must be why merkins are so keen to own English cars.


I'm not sure who is trolling and who is joking as rotating and inspecting
tires is a natural thing that you do on most vehicles simply because fronts
wear differently than rears, and crowns affect wear and alignment setup per
side.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/...ic_balance.jpg

Besides, rotating tires gives you a chance to doublecheck their static
balance and to inspect and remove between 50 and 100 pebbles and shards
from the carcass.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter2.jpg

With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in America, I'd
wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in terms of what 'mericans
prefer overall.


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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 20:44, ultred ragnusen wrote:
wrote:

Much better to
discard it and get something with a longer handle
https://tinyurl.com/yag6ddqr


That "teloscopic torque wrench" was a new tool to my eyes!
(Too bad it doesn't take a socket because it's 17/19 & while I need 21mm).


These telescopic bars have a normal 1/2 inch square drive that any 1/2
drive socket can fit into. You don't have to use the socket it comes with.

It's not a torque wrench - its just a wrench with a telescopic handle
that is at least twice as long as that which normally comes with the car
kit. It gives you much more leverage when trying to free the nut. It's
the same principle of adding a scaffolding over over an existing wrench
bar to make it longer.

It must be a clever internal mechanism that calculates the torque correctly
when you can change the distance along the lever!


It you added an extension tube to the end of a normal click type torque
wrench to make the handle twice as long and you applied your pressure to
the end this extension wouldn't the torque wrench still click at the
correct torque?




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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 2/18/18 3:17 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:

With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in America,
I'd wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in terms of what
'mericans prefer overall. b

The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini. There are
lots of cars with Japanese badges around. Some of those are built
in the US though. Supposedly US vehicles might be built in Canada
or Mexico.

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James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:17:55 -0000, ultred ragnusen
wrote:
wrote:

No need to with those little **** ant things you blokes call cars.


That must be why merkins are so keen to own English cars.


I'm not sure who is trolling and who is joking as rotating and
inspecting tires is a natural thing that you do on most vehicles
simply because fronts wear differently than rears, and crowns affect
wear and alignment setup per side.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/...ic_balance.jpg

Besides, rotating tires gives you a chance to doublecheck their
static balance and to inspect and remove between 50 and 100 pebbles
and shards from the carcass.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter2.jpg

With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in
America, I'd wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in
terms of what 'mericans prefer overall.


Yes, the fronts wear faster than the rears, but so what?! You
replace whatever wears out when it wears out. What on earth is the
point in moving them around so you have to replace all four at once?!


It's called preventive maintenance. You are too stupid to understand this.


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wrote:

These telescopic bars have a normal 1/2 inch square drive that any 1/2
drive socket can fit into. You don't have to use the socket it comes with.


Oh. Thanks. That's good because any decent toolbox has a set of 1/4", 3/8",
and 1/2" metric and SAE sockets.

Hmmmm... I just realized that those socket sizes are in SAE units, and not
in metric units.

Do the 4-sided openings in European sockets conform to the same standard
1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" sizes we use in America? Or do the Europeans use a
metric sized drive square?

It's not a torque wrench - its just a wrench with a telescopic handle
that is at least twice as long as that which normally comes with the car
kit. It gives you much more leverage when trying to free the nut. It's
the same principle of adding a scaffolding over over an existing wrench
bar to make it longer.


Oh. I see. Yes. We all have used a pipe in times of need, to extend our
leverage. Most of us have pretty long "breaker bars" though, which is what
I would use if I needed the torque to remove a bolt.

It must be a clever internal mechanism that calculates the torque correctly
when you can change the distance along the lever!


It you added an extension tube to the end of a normal click type torque
wrench to make the handle twice as long and you applied your pressure to
the end this extension wouldn't the torque wrench still click at the
correct torque?


It would as long as the only point of that loosely fitting extension tube
touching the torque wrench were at the place that you would have put your
hand on the torque wrench.

I guess if you put a tightly fitting extension tube over the torque wrench
of a length that doubles the torque wrench length, then you'd get a
"reading" of (half? double?) on the torque wrench.

Let me think about that.... (would it be double or half?).

Upon a few moments of circumspection, I'm not sure, but I think you'd get a
reading that is half what it actually is??????
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On 18/02/2018 21:21, alan_m wrote:

These telescopic bars have a normal 1/2 inch square drive that any 1/2
drive socket can fit into. You don't have to use the socket it comes with.


Different picture
https://www.screwfix.com/p/rac-teles...-17-19mm/7182r



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wrote:

Yes, the fronts wear faster than the rears, but so what?!
You replace whatever wears out when it wears out.


It's hard to tell if you're serious or if you're just trolling because I
already said multiple times in this thread that a palpable feathering
occurs at around 4K miles, which is normal for some vehicles driven under
certain conditions, even when tires are properly inflated and suspensions
are properly aligned.

What on earth is the point in moving them around so you have
to replace all four at once?!


While readjusting the assembly static balance and tire pressure (if
necessary) is more of a comfort than safety issue, there's added safety in
inspecting the tires closely periodically to look for damage and to pluck
out objects, where invariably between 50 and 100 pebbles and shards are
removed from each tire in each rotation cycle.

So that's roughly about 50x4x4 objects removed every year from your tires.

How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?

Maybe fewer than 1/10th of a percent, but this tiny shard I removed
yesterday certainly had a slow-leak potential:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg
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On 18/02/2018 21:29, ultred ragnusen wrote:

Do the 4-sided openings in European sockets conform to the same standard
1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" sizes we use in America? Or do the Europeans use a
metric sized drive square?


Yep, standard 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 square drives which can be used with both
imperial and metric hex/12 point sockets.


It would as long as the only point of that loosely fitting extension tube
touching the torque wrench were at the place that you would have put your
hand on the torque wrench.

I guess if you put a tightly fitting extension tube over the torque wrench
of a length that doubles the torque wrench length, then you'd get a
"reading" of (half? double?) on the torque wrench.

Let me think about that.... (would it be double or half?).


You can place you hands on any part of a click type torque wrench to get
it to work correctly.

Upon a few moments of circumspection, I'm not sure, but I think you'd
get a
reading that is half what it actually is??????


No, the end of the torque wrench would move exactly the same distance.
The end of the extension would move by twice the distance as the end of
the torque wrench.
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On 18/02/2018 21:37, ultred ragnusen wrote:

How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?



In my experience of 40 years of driving all my punctures have been made
by objects long enough to go straight through the tyre the moment I
drove over it.

By your logic if 10% of the shards could result in a puncture would all
of us that don't preform this task expect around one puncture per month?


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wrote:

Do the 4-sided openings in European sockets conform to the same standard
1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" sizes we use in America? Or do the Europeans use a
metric sized drive square?


Yep, standard 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 square drives which can be used with both
imperial and metric hex/12 point sockets.


That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
standard of units.

To us, Imperial is a strange word, where it often means Imperial Japan or
Imperial British (meaning before WWII in our vernacular), but we never use
the word "imperial" in terms of measurement units (at least I don't).

I have seen "imperial gallons" where I have to ask what they are, since we
just have gallons and liters and nothing else (similarly with regular tons
and long tons I guess).

I guess, since the US is anything but imperial, that the term must be so
old as to predate the SAE, and to relate to Imperial British units?

Let me think about that.... (would it be double or half?).


You can place you hands on any part of a click type torque wrench to get
it to work correctly.


I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a certain given spot?


Upon a few moments of circumspection, I'm not sure, but I think you'd
get a
reading that is half what it actually is??????


No, the end of the torque wrench would move exactly the same distance.
The end of the extension would move by twice the distance as the end of
the torque wrench.


OK. I'm confused because I have a dial-type wrench which has a pin which
certainly is to prevent you from putting force at any other point for this
reason alone....
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wrote:

How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?



In my experience of 40 years of driving all my punctures have been made
by objects long enough to go straight through the tyre the moment I
drove over it.

By your logic if 10% of the shards could result in a puncture would all
of us that don't preform this task expect around one puncture per month?


I can't stake my mortgage on the percentage but I did say one tenth of one
percent, and I did easily count over fifty objects per tire, which is about
800 objects per year, which let's just call 1000 objects in a year for
simplicity of math per set of four tires.

One tenth of one percent of that number is 1 slow leak a year due to
shards, which I agree might be too much.

How many slow leaks have you had over the years?

If it's a slow-or-fast leak once every ten years due to an object
penetrating the carcass, then the percentage is roughly about one-hundredth
of one percent.

How often do you get a leak (slow or fast) in your tires due to object
penetration?

I think the (slow or fast) leak due to an object penetrating the carcass
percentage is somewhere in between the one tenth of one percent and one
hundredth of one percent, don't you think?

Statistically speaking, I get your drift that it isn't worth removing
shards from a tire just to prevent a slow leak every couple of years, but,
anecdotally, what do you think this shard would have done, over time?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg


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On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:

I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a certain given
spot?


They measure torque at the head of the wrench, not the end of the
handle.
Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle. Say it takes 50 pounds of force at
the end of the handle to loosen a nut. Take a wrench with a 4 foot
handle.
It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's handle to
loosen
the same nut. That's why cheater pipes work.

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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 2/18/2018 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:

I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a
certain given
spot?


They measure torque at the head of the wrench, not
the end of the handle.
Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle. Say it takes 50 pounds
of force at
the end of the handle to loosen a nut. Take a wrench with
a 4 foot handle.
It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's
handle to loosen
the same nut. That's why cheater pipes work.


Classic beam scale torque wrenches do indeed rely on a
single point load which is why the handle has a pivot pin.
Your comments are correct for click wrenches.

--
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No quote.

Is it this hard to put on a tire?
Tighten till tight.
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On 18/02/2018 22:25, ultred ragnusen wrote:


That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
standard of units.


Not necessarily the rest of Europe but the UK.

I'm now retired and during my schooling it was mainly the metric system
that was taught.

In the UK we still use a imperial units for some items. Beer in pubs is
sold in pints and not litres. Vehicle speed and road signs are still in
miles and not kilometres. Manufactures/dealers still refer to petrol
consumption in miles per gallon even though petrol has been sold by the
litre for 3 decades or more.

I was an engineer by profession and only used metric my whole working
life for the job.

Some non-metric items are throwback to history - they have been that way
for hundreds of years and haven't changed.

To us, Imperial is a strange word, where it often means Imperial Japan or
Imperial British (meaning before WWII in our vernacular), but we never use
the word "imperial" in terms of measurement units (at least I don't).


I have seen "imperial gallons" where I have to ask what they are, since we
just have gallons and liters and nothing else (similarly with regular tons
and long tons I guess).


We only say gallons BUT when talking to the ex-colonies we have to say
'Imperial' because your pints and gallons are different from ours.

1 imperial (UK) pint = 1.2 US pint
1 imperial (UK) gallon = 1.2 US gallons

There is also the tonne = 1,000 kg

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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 2/18/18 4:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2018 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:

I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a
certain given
spot?


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* They measure torque at the head of the wrench, not
the end of the handle.
Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle.Â* Say it takes 50 pounds
of force at
the end of the handleÂ* to loosen a nut.Â*Â* Take a wrench with
a 4 foot handle.
It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's
handle to loosen
the same nut.Â*Â* That's why cheater pipes work.


Classic beam scale torque wrenches do indeed rely on a single point load
which is why the handle has a pivot pin. Your comments are correct for
click wrenches.

I don't get the why if this is what you mean by beam scale
torque wrench.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Presa-1-4-in-Drive-0-in-to-80-in-lbs-Beam-Style-Torque-Wrench-CP31006/206975714
or http://alturl.com/wsjx3


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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 22:32, ultred ragnusen wrote:

I can't stake my mortgage on the percentage but I did say one tenth of one
percent, and I did easily count over fifty objects per tire, which is about
800 objects per year, which let's just call 1000 objects in a year for
simplicity of math per set of four tires.

One tenth of one percent of that number is 1 slow leak a year due to
shards, which I agree might be too much.


My apologies, I did mis-read one tenth as ten percent.

However, even when I've had slow leaks its been objects that have fully
penetrated the tyre at the the time I ran over it, or a few rotations of
the wheel later. Nails and screws often cause a puncture but then until
removed either seal the puncture or cause a very slow leak


Statistically speaking, I get your drift that it isn't worth removing
shards from a tire just to prevent a slow leak every couple of years, but,
anecdotally, what do you think this shard would have done, over time?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg


i) it would have fallen off.
ii) as the tyre wears it would have become the high spot and be ground
off by the road surface



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Default Gay ****** Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), theSociopathic Attention Whore

On 18/02/2018 23:02, Peeler wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:40:43 -0000, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:29:24 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:17:55 -0000, ultred ragnusen
wrote:
wrote:

No need to with those little **** ant things you blokes call cars.


That must be why merkins are so keen to own English cars.

I'm not sure who is trolling and who is joking as rotating and
inspecting tires is a natural thing that you do on most vehicles
simply because fronts wear differently than rears, and crowns affect
wear and alignment setup per side.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/...ic_balance.jpg

Besides, rotating tires gives you a chance to doublecheck their
static balance and to inspect and remove between 50 and 100 pebbles
and shards from the carcass.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter2.jpg

With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in
America, I'd wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in
terms of what 'mericans prefer overall.

Yes, the fronts wear faster than the rears, but so what?! You
replace whatever wears out when it wears out. What on earth is the
point in moving them around so you have to replace all four at once?!

It's called preventive maintenance. You are too stupid to understand this.


It doesn't change the speed at which the tyres wear out, so is utterly pointless. Don't bother replying, you're killfiled, I just peeked into it to see what ****e you were spouting.


ROTFLOL! And Birdbrain, the resident gay ****** of all the UK ngs, quickly
hides behind his ridiculous pretend killfile again! ****ing HILARIOUS! LOL

I sure hope that eventually all of your neighbours and relatives will learn
about your "reputation" on these groups, Peter Hucker, you filthy
sociopathic ******! LOL


ROTFLOL! And Peeler, Birdbrain's jilted lover, is jealous all that spunk
is going to waste.
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Default Gay ****** Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), the Sociopathic Attention Whore

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 23:20:31 +0000, Fredxx, the resident smartass,
smartassed again:

ROTFLOL! And Birdbrain, the resident gay ****** of all the UK ngs, quickly
hides behind his ridiculous pretend killfile again! ****ing HILARIOUS! LOL

I sure hope that eventually all of your neighbours and relatives will learn
about your "reputation" on these groups, Peter Hucker, you filthy
sociopathic ******! LOL


ROTFLOL! And Peeler, Birdbrain's jilted lover, is jealous all that spunk
is going to waste.


You felt personally addressed when "gay ******" was mentioned? Obviously
RIGHTLY so, you smartass who can never hold back his gay fantasies! BG

Remember, gay smartass: you, TOO, claimed to have "killfiled" me! ROTFLOL
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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

"MrCheerful" wrote:

I think not - but I've heard people say use the shortest extension bar you
can get your hands on. I don't understand why. It should be the same torque
if I used a 16-inch extension bar, right?


no because some force will just be twisting the bar, Imagine a bar a
mile long, you twist one end with a known force, the other end would not
move.


Oh crap. Is this myth still floating around?
We're not measuring *movement*, we're measuring *torque*.
Place a 100 pound weight on one end of a 5-foot long teeter-totter.
How much weight do you add to the other end to balance it?
Place a 100 pound weight on one end of a mile long teeter-totter.
Same question. (PS: You'll get the same answer)

Back to the actual question:
3-inch extension keeps you close to the nut, unlikely to twist sideways and fall off.
16-inch extension has the possibility of pulling the socket out of alignment, maybe
rounding off the nut, and scraping your knuckles (and your shiny new wrench) on the
ground, UNLESS you properly support the wrench at the head end to keep it straight.



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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

You really need to find something more interesting to do with your life.


Pot, kettle, black.


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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 2/18/2018 5:07 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 2/18/18 4:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2018 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:

I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a
certain given
spot?

      They measure torque at the head of the
wrench, not
the end of the handle.
Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle. Say it takes 50 pounds
of force at
the end of the handle to loosen a nut.  Take a
wrench with
a 4 foot handle.
It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's
handle to loosen
the same nut.  That's why cheater pipes work.


Classic beam scale torque wrenches do indeed rely on a
single point load which is why the handle has a pivot pin.
Your comments are correct for click wrenches.

I don't get the why if this is what you mean by beam
scale torque wrench.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Presa-1-4-in-Drive-0-in-to-80-in-lbs-Beam-Style-Torque-Wrench-CP31006/206975714

or http://alturl.com/wsjx3


Yep that's the style. Scale reading assumes the load is at
the handle pivot pin.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

Statistically speaking, I get your drift that it isn't worth removing
shards from a tire just to prevent a slow leak every couple of years, but,
anecdotally, what do you think this shard would have done, over time?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg


i) it would have fallen off.
ii) as the tyre wears it would have become the high spot and be ground
off by the road surface


Hmmmm.... maybe it would have fallen off, which most pebbles, I'd wager,
would do. But this would likely, IMHO, have simply been pushed further into
the tire, particularly given it's arrowhead shape.

Personally, based on the shape and direct angle of entry normal to the tire
surface, I give that shard from a 95% to 99% chance of having punctured the
tire over time, whereas I give a round pebble only from 1/10th to 1/100th
of one percent the same chance.
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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

I don't get the why if this is what you mean by beam scale
torque wrench.


I show both types of torque wrenches in my original post, reproduced below.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg

The "beam style" (with the black handle & red pointer) has a "pivot pin" to
ensure that your force is applied at a single point of contact on the bar.
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wrote:

No quote.

Is it this hard to put on a tire?
Tighten till tight.


How tight?
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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
standard of units.


Not necessarily the rest of Europe but the UK.


Do the Germans and French also use "inch" sizes for their ratchets?

We only say gallons BUT when talking to the ex-colonies we have to say
'Imperial' because your pints and gallons are different from ours.

1 imperial (UK) pint = 1.2 US pint
1 imperial (UK) gallon = 1.2 US gallons


I see. Like you, we only speak of "gallons", where we don't ever need to
distinguish between your gallons and our gallons, I guess.


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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 19/02/2018 00:23, ultred ragnusen wrote:
wrote:

That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
standard of units.


Not necessarily the rest of Europe but the UK.


Do the Germans and French also use "inch" sizes for their ratchets?


I believe it's an international standard with no metric equivalents for
the "drive" side of sockets.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

In article ,
Dean Hoffman wrote:
The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini.


Wot - no Range Rovers? Jaguars? Nissans?

--
*If vegetable oil comes from vegetables, where does baby oil come from? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

In article ,
Sanity Clause wrote:
Back to the actual question: 3-inch extension keeps you close to the
nut, unlikely to twist sideways and fall off. 16-inch extension has the
possibility of pulling the socket out of alignment, maybe rounding off
the nut, and scraping your knuckles (and your shiny new wrench) on the
ground, UNLESS you properly support the wrench at the head end to keep
it straight.


If you have a spare jack, place it under the extension bar to reduce
sideways load on the socket. You can then use your full body weight on the
breaker bar with less chance of breaking the tools.

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 2/18/18 7:00 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dean Hoffman wrote:
The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini.


Wot - no Range Rovers? Jaguars? Nissans?

Shucks. I forgot. I actually know someone who has a Range Rover.
There was a Jag convertible around for awhile but I haven't seen it
for years.
Nissans are Japanese, Mexican, or American made at least for the North
American market.
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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 09:00:02 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

wrote:

First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
(13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.


The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
fine motion is required.


This is good to know that the impact socket is superior, probably for two
reasons, right?
1. It has those radius corners (someone said it reduces stress on both the
nuts and the socket itself).
2. It is stronger overall (presumably)

Since there is always a drawback, I think the drawback might be:
3. They're "fatter" it seems, than my normal sockets
4. They don't seem to come in 12-point sizes (at least mine aren't)


That's because 12 point sockets are not the best to use on an impact
- as discussed previously.

And yes, they ARE fatter - because they REALLY need to be.


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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 15:28:22 -0600, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 2/18/18 3:17 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:

With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in America,
I'd wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in terms of what
'mericans prefer overall. b

The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini. There are
lots of cars with Japanese badges around. Some of those are built
in the US though. Supposedly US vehicles might be built in Canada
or Mexico.



Or Korea if it wears a bow-tie.
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Default Gay ****** Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), theSociopathic Attention Whore

On 18/02/2018 23:43, Peeler wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 23:20:31 +0000, Fredxx, the resident smartass,
smartassed again:

ROTFLOL! And Birdbrain, the resident gay ****** of all the UK ngs, quickly
hides behind his ridiculous pretend killfile again! ****ing HILARIOUS! LOL

I sure hope that eventually all of your neighbours and relatives will learn
about your "reputation" on these groups, Peter Hucker, you filthy
sociopathic ******! LOL


ROTFLOL! And Peeler, Birdbrain's jilted lover, is jealous all that spunk
is going to waste.


You felt personally addressed when "gay ******" was mentioned? Obviously
RIGHTLY so, you smartass who can never hold back his gay fantasies! BG


I didn't feel addressed, and I don't feel the need to dribble over
PHucker's every post.

Remember, gay smartass: you, TOO, claimed to have "killfiled" me! ROTFLOL


Unfortunately not in uk.rec.cars.maintenance but is easily remedied.

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Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:37:01 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

wrote:

Yes, the fronts wear faster than the rears, but so what?!
You replace whatever wears out when it wears out.


It's hard to tell if you're serious or if you're just trolling because I
already said multiple times in this thread that a palpable feathering
occurs at around 4K miles, which is normal for some vehicles driven under
certain conditions, even when tires are properly inflated and suspensions
are properly aligned.

What on earth is the point in moving them around so you have
to replace all four at once?!


While readjusting the assembly static balance and tire pressure (if
necessary) is more of a comfort than safety issue, there's added safety in
inspecting the tires closely periodically to look for damage and to pluck
out objects, where invariably between 50 and 100 pebbles and shards are
removed from each tire in each rotation cycle.

So that's roughly about 50x4x4 objects removed every year from your tires.

How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?


Virtually none. Of those 50 to 100 pebbles etc you remove, better
than 90% will have left the tires and been replaced by different ones
within about 100 KM of driving.

Maybe fewer than 1/10th of a percent, but this tiny shard I removed
yesterday certainly had a slow-leak potential:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg

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On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:59:23 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 18/02/2018 21:37, ultred ragnusen wrote:

How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?



In my experience of 40 years of driving all my punctures have been made
by objects long enough to go straight through the tyre the moment I
drove over it.

By your logic if 10% of the shards could result in a puncture would all
of us that don't preform this task expect around one puncture per month?



I average about one puncture every 10 years between my 2 vehicles.
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On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 14:32:58 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

wrote:

How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?



In my experience of 40 years of driving all my punctures have been made
by objects long enough to go straight through the tyre the moment I
drove over it.

By your logic if 10% of the shards could result in a puncture would all
of us that don't preform this task expect around one puncture per month?


I can't stake my mortgage on the percentage but I did say one tenth of one
percent, and I did easily count over fifty objects per tire, which is about
800 objects per year, which let's just call 1000 objects in a year for
simplicity of math per set of four tires.

One tenth of one percent of that number is 1 slow leak a year due to
shards, which I agree might be too much.

How many slow leaks have you had over the years?

If it's a slow-or-fast leak once every ten years due to an object
penetrating the carcass, then the percentage is roughly about one-hundredth
of one percent.

How often do you get a leak (slow or fast) in your tires due to object
penetration?

I think the (slow or fast) leak due to an object penetrating the carcass
percentage is somewhere in between the one tenth of one percent and one
hundredth of one percent, don't you think?

Statistically speaking, I get your drift that it isn't worth removing
shards from a tire just to prevent a slow leak every couple of years, but,
anecdotally, what do you think this shard would have done, over time?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg



Fallen out. Or worn off.
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