I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

In article ,
says...

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

This is one of the things that if you have to ask, get an electrician
todo it for you.

In ther breaker box you will have to run 4 wires to a receptical that is
made for 220 (240) volts. There will be 2 wires, usually red and black
that will have the 220 volts across them. There will be a white wire
(neutral in the US) that from it will be 120 volts to the red and black
wires. Then a green safety ground.

If the machine you have is truely a 220 volt machine, you will use what
is labled L and N for the 220 volts. It will not matter which wire from
the machine ( L or N )is hooked to which Red and Black wire. The white
wire on the receptical will not be use. The GND will go to the green
ground wire of the receptical.

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-5, Pat L wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

First, if you are in the USA it's 240v, so let's assume the machine is ok with that. You can't put a 20a receptacle on a 15a circuit, ie a circuit with a 15a breaker and 14g wire. Looks like your only option is a new 240v circuit.

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:38:30 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-5, Pat L wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

First, if you are in the USA it's 240v, so let's assume the machine is ok with that. You can't put a 20a receptacle on a 15a circuit, ie a circuit with a 15a breaker and 14g wire. Looks like your only option is a new 240v circuit.


Let's try again. I saw where you said you wanted to put in a 20A receptacle.
But the machine only needs 10A. So, you could use a 240V 15A receptacle.
The rest of what you're trying to do gets more dicely. As I understand it,
you want to take two existing branch circuits that are on separate breakers,
15A?, and turn them into an Edison circuit/shared neutral circuit that
still powers the existing two circuits plus the added 240V 15A receptacle.
You'd have to replace the two breakers with a single double pole 15A breaker.

Pat L
Wed, 14
Feb 2018 17:23:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V
20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

They do, but, it's not afaik, split like ours is. The 220volts there
is coming via a single wire. That's not how we do it, here. We take
both 120volt legs to get the 240volts on two wires, not one.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

You'll be buying a suitable converter then. You can't just take our
120volt lines and 'combine' them. You'll have a very spiffy looking
arc flash if you try.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but
I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone
out there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

A suitable converter on a dedicated circuit. You might want to
consult with an electrician for this.


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On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
Pat L
Wed, 14
Feb 2018 17:23:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V
20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

They do, but, it's not afaik, split like ours is. The 220volts there
is coming via a single wire. That's not how we do it, here. We take
both 120volt legs to get the 240volts on two wires, not one.

That would be some remarkable physics to supply power using only one wire.
Those Chinese must be really clever.



The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

You'll be buying a suitable converter then. You can't just take our
120volt lines and 'combine' them. You'll have a very spiffy looking
arc flash if you try.

No arcs. If the two 120V circuits are on the same hot leg/phase, then
nothing will happen. If they are on opposite legs, which is what
the poster said they were going to do, then you have 240V between
them which is what the machine needs. That is assuming it's here in
the USA and it's OK with 240V instead of 220V. They could theoretically
turn two regular circuits into a shared neutral edison circuit, which
is what it sounded like they were talking about doing. There may be
code issues, but the physics is straightforward.

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 7:27:35 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
Pat L
Wed, 14
Feb 2018 17:23:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V
20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

They do, but, it's not afaik, split like ours is. The 220volts there
is coming via a single wire. That's not how we do it, here. We take
both 120volt legs to get the 240volts on two wires, not one.

That would be some remarkable physics to supply power using only one wire.
Those Chinese must be really clever.



The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

You'll be buying a suitable converter then. You can't just take our
120volt lines and 'combine' them. You'll have a very spiffy looking
arc flash if you try.

No arcs. If the two 120V circuits are on the same hot leg/phase, then
nothing will happen. If they are on opposite legs, which is what
the poster said they were going to do, then you have 240V between
them which is what the machine needs. That is assuming it's here in
the USA and it's OK with 240V instead of 220V. They could theoretically
turn two regular circuits into a shared neutral edison circuit, which
is what it sounded like they were talking about doing. There may be
code issues, but the physics is straightforward.

To add to that, the code issue that would come into play would be that
you'd wind up with two separate cables that are part of the same circuit.
And you're not supposed to have conductors for the same circuit in separate
cables, raceways, etc. That would be the code problem and show stopper
with converting what's there.

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 7:44:21 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:27:27 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
Pat L
Wed, 14
Feb 2018 17:23:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V
20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

They do, but, it's not afaik, split like ours is. The 220volts there
is coming via a single wire. That's not how we do it, here. We take
both 120volt legs to get the 240volts on two wires, not one.

That would be some remarkable physics to supply power using only one wire.
Those Chinese must be really clever.

They are, but even you must know that's not what was meant. One LIVE wire obviously. Learn basic English.

I have no problem with English and understood exactly what the OP was
asking about.

"So I want to install a US 220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits"

Sounds like you're the one confused.

On 2/14/2018 7:42 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 21:02:07 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:38:30 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-5, Pat L wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there.* So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a
box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that
over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd".* I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but
I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out
there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

First, if you are in the USA it's 240v, so let's assume the machine
is ok with that.* You can't put a 20a receptacle on a 15a circuit, ie
a circuit with a 15a breaker and 14g wire.* Looks like your only
option is a new 240v circuit.


Let's try again.* I saw where you said you wanted to put in a 20A
receptacle.
But the machine only needs 10A.* So, you could use a 240V 15A receptacle.
The rest of what you're trying to do gets more dicely.* As I
understand it,
you want to take two existing branch circuits that are on separate
breakers,
15A?, and turn them into an Edison circuit/shared neutral circuit that
still powers the existing two circuits plus the added 240V 15A
receptacle.
You'd have to replace the two breakers with a single double pole 15A
breaker.
Then the physics and basic safety work, but you still have other
potential
issues:

Are 240V and 120V receptacles permitted on the same circuit?* I don't
know of any code provision that says no.

You'd have to make sure there aren't any other code issues with
converting
this into a shared neutral circuit.

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US.* But before those
namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V.* You could
take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V from the two
110V wires.* Do the circuit breakers think there's an earth fault if you
try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires?* I thought an American
circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines were linked and run off a
dual breaker which would accept a 220V device?


We also have 220 outlets. Think I only have one for clothes dryer but
at least well and electric stove are 220.

In article , says...

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US. But before those namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V. You could take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V from the two 110V wires. Do the circuit breakers think there's an earth fault if you try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires?
I thought an American circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines were linked and run off a dual breaker which would accept a 220V device?




I think you have it correct. In the US what we have comming into the
house are 3 (or 4) wires. At the pole is a transformer that is center
tapped. across the full winding is 240 volts. From the center wire
(called the neutral) to either of the other wires is half that or 120
volts. So we can have either 120 volt or 240 volt devices. There is on
the newer items a safety ground that connects to the neutral at the
breaker box.



A sneaker way to run the 240 volt devices (you did not hear it from me)
is to find two recepticals on the different legs . YOu then run a wire
from each of the hot wires to the 240 volt device. It helps for safety
if you also run a ground wire. You do not need the neutrals if only a
240 volt device is hooked up.
If you do for some reason need a 120 volt device also, you can run the
neutral wires. As they are connected together at the breaker box, you
can use either one or both of them. Just be warned that if a single
breaker trips , the other side will still be 120 volts to ground and
neutral.

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 8:03:25 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 2/14/2018 7:42 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 21:02:07 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:38:30 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-5, Pat L wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there.Â* So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a
box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that
over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd".Â* I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but
I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out
there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

First, if you are in the USA it's 240v, so let's assume the machine
is ok with that.Â* You can't put a 20a receptacle on a 15a circuit, ie
a circuit with a 15a breaker and 14g wire.Â* Looks like your only
option is a new 240v circuit.


Let's try again.Â* I saw where you said you wanted to put in a 20A
receptacle.
But the machine only needs 10A.Â* So, you could use a 240V 15A receptacle.
The rest of what you're trying to do gets more dicely.Â* As I
understand it,
you want to take two existing branch circuits that are on separate
breakers,
15A?, and turn them into an Edison circuit/shared neutral circuit that
still powers the existing two circuits plus the added 240V 15A
receptacle.
You'd have to replace the two breakers with a single double pole 15A
breaker.
Then the physics and basic safety work, but you still have other
potential
issues:

Are 240V and 120V receptacles permitted on the same circuit?Â* I don't
know of any code provision that says no.

You'd have to make sure there aren't any other code issues with
converting
this into a shared neutral circuit.

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US.Â* But before those
namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V.Â* You could
take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V from the two
110V wires.Â* Do the circuit breakers think there's an earth fault if you
try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires?Â* I thought an American
circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines were linked and run off a
dual breaker which would accept a 220V device?


We also have 220 outlets. Think I only have one for clothes dryer but
at least well and electric stove are 220.

It may exist somewhere, it is a big country, but I've never seen 220V
in a home in the USA. It's 120/240. 220 is an international voltage.

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 8:54:35 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US. But before those namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V. You could take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V from the two 110V wires. Do the circuit breakers think there's an earth fault if you try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires?
I thought an American circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines were linked and run off a dual breaker which would accept a 220V device?




I think you have it correct. In the US what we have comming into the
house are 3 (or 4) wires. At the pole is a transformer that is center
tapped. across the full winding is 240 volts. From the center wire
(called the neutral) to either of the other wires is half that or 120
volts. So we can have either 120 volt or 240 volt devices. There is on
the newer items a safety ground that connects to the neutral at the
breaker box.


If by newer items you mean circa the 60s, I agree.






A sneaker way to run the 240 volt devices (you did not hear it from me)
is to find two recepticals on the different legs . YOu then run a wire
from each of the hot wires to the 240 volt device. It helps for safety
if you also run a ground wire. You do not need the neutrals if only a
240 volt device is hooked up.

That is what the OP proposed doing, which creates a *******ized shared
neutral. but it's not code compliant, which it seems you agree. But note
that they proposed using a 220V 20A receptacle, which in addition to the
other code issues, is unsafe if either of those circuits is 15A.




If you do for some reason need a 120 volt device also, you can run the
neutral wires. As they are connected together at the breaker box, you
can use either one or both of them. Just be warned that if a single
breaker trips , the other side will still be 120 volts to ground and
neutral.

IT sounds like the reverse is the problem. The OP already has the
circuits and is trying to put in a 220V or 240V receptacle off of
110V circuits. Doesn't help that we don't know where they are.

"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:53:36 -0000, trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 7:44:21 PM UTC-5, James
Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:27:27 -0000, trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-5, Diesel
wrote:
Pat L

Wed, 14 Feb 2018 17:23:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but
I forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a
US 220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A
circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets.
That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, &
ground to run my machines.

They do, but, it's not afaik, split like ours is. The
220volts there is coming via a single wire. That's not how we
do it, here. We take both 120volt legs to get the 240volts on
two wires, not one.

That would be some remarkable physics to supply power using
only one wire. Those Chinese must be really clever.

They are, but even you must know that's not what was meant. One
LIVE wire obviously. Learn basic English.

I have no problem with English and understood exactly what the OP
was asking about.

"So I want to install a US 220V 20A female receptor by using two
legs of 110V 15A circuits"

Sounds like you're the one confused.

No, you are. You were clearly referring to "The 220volts there is
coming via a single wire". You can't even remember who you were
replying to.


Not only that, he went above and beyond the call of duty to try and
discount my arc warning by specifying the same leg for both 120volt
circuits. Well, duh, there'd be no arc, but, you wouldn't get
240volts either, so there'd be no point in using the same leg for l
and n on the device in question.


--
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https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php 10/10 WOT.
If you've been a victim as well, you can provide the following
information to your lawyer, local law enforcement, etc
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
email(s): ,

"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:27:27 -0000, trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-5, Diesel
wrote:
Pat L
Wed,
14 Feb 2018 17:23:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US
220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A
circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets.
That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, &
ground to run my machines.

They do, but, it's not afaik, split like ours is. The 220volts
there is coming via a single wire. That's not how we do it,
here. We take both 120volt legs to get the 240volts on two
wires, not one.

That would be some remarkable physics to supply power using only
one wire. Those Chinese must be really clever.

They are, but even you must know that's not what was meant. One
LIVE wire obviously. Learn basic English.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

You'll be buying a suitable converter then. You can't just take
our 120volt lines and 'combine' them. You'll have a very spiffy
looking arc flash if you try.

No arcs. If the two 120V circuits are on the same hot leg/phase,
then nothing will happen. If they are on opposite legs, which is
what the poster said they were going to do, then you have 240V
between them which is what the machine needs. That is assuming
it's here in the USA and it's OK with 240V instead of 220V. They
could theoretically turn two regular circuits into a shared
neutral edison circuit, which is what it sounded like they were
talking about doing. There may be code issues, but the physics
is straightforward.

Diesel pretends to be clever, but he isn't.


What are you talking about? I have no idea why trader thought it
necessary to mention the obvious. I don't think anyone? else assumed
(as he did) that I was writing about taking two hots fed by the same
leg and cautioning against connecting them to each other. Especially
given the fact you can't get 240volts by doing that. You need BOTH
legs to get it here. And, you can't just take a wire from each leg
and make a pigtail expecting the pigtail to now magically, be
240volts on a single wire. it's not happening.

Based on the Ops post and my replies, there's no real reason why
anyone would suggest I was warning about any potential for harm by
connecting the same leg back to itself.

Had you even the slightest clue about what's being discussed here,
your opinion might be of some, slight, trivial value. As it presently
is, it's the same as your accusation (without any ability to support
it) that all forms of 'hacking' are illegal, when infact, you were
mostly writing about 'cracking', without realizing the differences.


--
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https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php 10/10 WOT.
If you've been a victim as well, you can provide the following
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Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
email(s): ,

trader_4
Thu, 15
Feb 2018 00:27:27 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
Pat L
Wed,
14 Feb 2018 17:23:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V
20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want
to convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my
machines.

They do, but, it's not afaik, split like ours is. The 220volts
there is coming via a single wire. That's not how we do it, here.
We take both 120volt legs to get the 240volts on two wires, not
one.

That would be some remarkable physics to supply power using only
one wire. Those Chinese must be really clever.

I'm going to assume this was your attempt to be a smart ass? it's
obvious that I was writing about the fact China provides 220volts via
a single hot wire in their homes. Unlike how we do it here, with our
split phase system.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

You'll be buying a suitable converter then. You can't just take
our 120volt lines and 'combine' them. You'll have a very spiffy
looking arc flash if you try.

No arcs. If the two 120V circuits are on the same hot leg/phase,
then nothing will happen.

Once again, I don't know where you're coming from or why you thought
I was warning against connecting the same leg to itself. You wouldn't
get an arc or an increase in voltage. You would get redundancy and a
backfeed instead. Circuit A and circuit B powered from the same leg
but on seperate breakers would require both breakers to be turned off
to ensure either is really dead if you wired their hots together at
some point, due to backfeeding as a result of connecting their hots
together.

If the two 120volts circuits are not fed by the same hot leg/phase,
you WILL most certainly get the arc flash I previously wrote about if
you just try to wire those hots together to create 240volts on a
single wire. IE: make a pigtail.

If the OP takes the advice you and another poster suggested to supply
power to the device, they should be aware of ALL the differences and
how it might affect the operation and/or safety of the device.

One, the supply is going to be 240volts across two seperate leg fed
hot wires, instead of one as originally called for. Two, it's going
to be 60hz instead of 50hz as it is where the Device is from. Three,
neutral is now a hot wire. The direction of current flow does matter
with some things. The internal wiring would tell the tale, though.

If they are on opposite legs, which is
what the poster said they were going to do, then you have 240V
between them which is what the machine needs.

The machine is wired for 220volts at 50hz on a single hot wire. Like
you'd expect to see in commercial lighting and such here in the
states. 208/277 (at 60hz) etc on a single phase hot wire. As in:
208/277, etc, line to neutral. Not line to line, as you're suggesting
they reconfigure it to be.

The individual would be better off, although it would be more costly
to get themselves a properly sized converter which can provide the
expected 220volts at 50hz on a single 'live' or 'hot' wire. That way,
neutral remains neutral and the frequency remains the same, too.

That is assuming it's here in the USA and it's OK with 240V instead
of 220V.

Assuming it doesn't care internally if neutral is used to provide the
second hot leg to get the 240volts as required here. Along with the
frequency difference.

They could theoretically turn two regular circuits into a shared
neutral edison circuit, which is what it sounded like they were
talking about doing. There may be code issues, but the physics is
straightforward.

I'm not arguing that point. That's exactly what your suggesting they
do. I'm just not so sure it's a good idea for the OPs intended
purpose. I've never seen the machine they want to wire up, so
obviously don't have any schematics to it. I wouldn't wire it that
way without more information concerning it's internal wiring. I'd
play it safe and use a properly sized converter for the task,
instead.


--
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If you've been a victim as well, you can provide the following
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Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
email(s): ,

"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 21:02:07 -0000, trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:38:30 PM UTC-5, trader_4
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-5, Pat L
wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US
220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A
circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets.
That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, &
ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V
but I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines.
Anyone out there really know what I can do or buy to make this
happen?

First, if you are in the USA it's 240v, so let's assume the
machine is ok with that. You can't put a 20a receptacle on a
15a circuit, ie a circuit with a 15a breaker and 14g wire.
Looks like your only option is a new 240v circuit.


Let's try again. I saw where you said you wanted to put in a 20A
receptacle. But the machine only needs 10A. So, you could use a
240V 15A receptacle. The rest of what you're trying to do gets
more dicely. As I understand it, you want to take two existing
branch circuits that are on separate breakers, 15A?, and turn
them into an Edison circuit/shared neutral circuit that still
powers the existing two circuits plus the added 240V 15A
receptacle. You'd have to replace the two breakers with a single
double pole 15A breaker. Then the physics and basic safety work,
but you still have other potential issues:

Are 240V and 120V receptacles permitted on the same circuit? I
don't know of any code provision that says no.

You'd have to make sure there aren't any other code issues with
converting this into a shared neutral circuit.

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US. But before
those namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V.
You could take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V
from the two 110V wires. Do the circuit breakers think there's an
earth fault if you try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires? I
thought an American circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines
were linked and run off a dual breaker which would accept a 220V
device?


Umm... Where are you getting consistent polarity from? You have 240
from hot to hot, and 120 from either hot to neutral. To get the full
240volts, you use both hots and forget the neutral. AC isn't
consistent polarity in the positive/negative sense. It changes. In
the case of the states, roughly 60 times a second.

It depends on the 'dual breaker' aspect. Some what I call 'mini'
duals are using the same phase to feed both; those are easily seen in
our panels because they use a single slot. The duals which take two
slots are using both legs. They can provide 240volts, where as the
mini single slot breaker cannot; since it's only using one of the two
phases in the panel.




--
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If you've been a victim as well, you can provide the following
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Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
email(s): ,

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:52:10 AM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 21:02:07 -0000, trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:38:30 PM UTC-5, trader_4
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-5, Pat L
wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US
220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A
circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets.
That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, &
ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V
but I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines.
Anyone out there really know what I can do or buy to make this
happen?

First, if you are in the USA it's 240v, so let's assume the
machine is ok with that. You can't put a 20a receptacle on a
15a circuit, ie a circuit with a 15a breaker and 14g wire.
Looks like your only option is a new 240v circuit.


Let's try again. I saw where you said you wanted to put in a 20A
receptacle. But the machine only needs 10A. So, you could use a
240V 15A receptacle. The rest of what you're trying to do gets
more dicely. As I understand it, you want to take two existing
branch circuits that are on separate breakers, 15A?, and turn
them into an Edison circuit/shared neutral circuit that still
powers the existing two circuits plus the added 240V 15A
receptacle. You'd have to replace the two breakers with a single
double pole 15A breaker. Then the physics and basic safety work,
but you still have other potential issues:

Are 240V and 120V receptacles permitted on the same circuit? I
don't know of any code provision that says no.

You'd have to make sure there aren't any other code issues with
converting this into a shared neutral circuit.

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US. But before
those namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V.
You could take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V
from the two 110V wires. Do the circuit breakers think there's an
earth fault if you try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires? I
thought an American circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines
were linked and run off a dual breaker which would accept a 220V
device?


Umm... Where are you getting consistent polarity from?

It's ac there is no consistent polarity.

You have 240
from hot to hot, and 120 from either hot to neutral. To get the full
240volts, you use both hots and forget the neutral.

Which is what the op said they want to do. They want to take two 120v circuits that are on opposite legs and use them for a 240v receptacle. There are code issues, but the physics works. They would wind up with support for both 120v at the existing outlets and 240 at the new one.



AC isn't
consistent polarity in the positive/negative sense. It changes. In
the case of the states, roughly 60 times a second.

It depends on the 'dual breaker' aspect

It depends on the two circuits being on opposing legs which you would do with a double pole breaker. But it's irrelevant if you are going to follow code because while it will work, it won't meet code.

.. Some what I call 'mini'
duals are using the same phase to feed both; those are easily seen in
our panels because they use a single slot. The duals which take two
slots are using both legs. They can provide 240volts, where as the
mini single slot breaker cannot; since it's only using one of the two
phases in the panel.




--
Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim! Visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php 10/10 WOT.
If you've been a victim as well, you can provide the following
information to your lawyer, local law enforcement, etc
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
email(s): ,

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:52:08 AM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:53:36 -0000, trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 7:44:21 PM UTC-5, James
Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:27:27 -0000, trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-5, Diesel
wrote:
Pat L

Wed, 14 Feb 2018 17:23:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but
I forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a
US 220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A
circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets.
That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, &
ground to run my machines.

They do, but, it's not afaik, split like ours is. The
220volts there is coming via a single wire. That's not how we
do it, here. We take both 120volt legs to get the 240volts on
two wires, not one.

That would be some remarkable physics to supply power using
only one wire. Those Chinese must be really clever.

They are, but even you must know that's not what was meant. One
LIVE wire obviously. Learn basic English.

I have no problem with English and understood exactly what the OP
was asking about.

"So I want to install a US 220V 20A female receptor by using two
legs of 110V 15A circuits"

Sounds like you're the one confused.

No, you are. You were clearly referring to "The 220volts there is
coming via a single wire". You can't even remember who you were
replying to.


Not only that, he went above and beyond the call of duty to try and
discount my arc warning by specifying the same leg for both 120volt
circuits. Well, duh, there'd be no arc, but, you wouldn't get
240volts either,

You get 240 by using two existing circuits that are on opposite legs. And there would be no arcing because who would ever connect them together? You connect them to the LOAD.




so there'd be no point in using the same leg for l
and n on the device in question.


--

On 2/14/2018 12:23 PM, Pat L wrote:
I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines.

Why would a mahjong machine have such high current requirements to shuffle tiles around?

Maybe you could actually measure the current draw with a meter?

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:52:09 AM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Thu, 15
Feb 2018 00:27:27 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
Pat L
Wed,
14 Feb 2018 17:23:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V
20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want
to convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my
machines.

They do, but, it's not afaik, split like ours is. The 220volts
there is coming via a single wire. That's not how we do it, here.
We take both 120volt legs to get the 240volts on two wires, not
one.

That would be some remarkable physics to supply power using only
one wire. Those Chinese must be really clever.

I'm going to assume this was your attempt to be a smart ass? it's
obvious that I was writing about the fact China provides 220volts via
a single hot wire in their homes. Unlike how we do it here, with our
split phase system.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

You'll be buying a suitable converter then. You can't just take
our 120volt lines and 'combine' them. You'll have a very spiffy
looking arc flash if you try.

No arcs. If the two 120V circuits are on the same hot leg/phase,
then nothing will happen.

Once again, I don't know where you're coming from or why you thought
I was warning against connecting the same leg to itself.

Why would you ever connect the two wires period? YOU are the one that
started talking about connecting the two wires together. The OP clearly
stated what they were talking about. They were proposing to connect the
240V load between the two circuits that exist on opposite legs.




You wouldn't
get an arc or an increase in voltage. You would get redundancy and a
backfeed instead. Circuit A and circuit B powered from the same leg
but on seperate breakers would require both breakers to be turned off
to ensure either is really dead if you wired their hots together at
some point, due to backfeeding as a result of connecting their hots
together.

If the two 120volts circuits are not fed by the same hot leg/phase,
you WILL most certainly get the arc flash I previously wrote about if
you just try to wire those hots together to create 240volts on a
single wire. IE: make a pigtail.

And again, no one except you ever proposed connecting them together.




If the OP takes the advice you and another poster suggested to supply
power to the device, they should be aware of ALL the differences and
how it might affect the operation and/or safety of the device.

I clearly stated that while it will work, I don't see a way to do it
code compliant.




One, the supply is going to be 240volts across two seperate leg fed
hot wires, instead of one as originally called for.

As originally called for by whom?



Two, it's going
to be 60hz instead of 50hz as it is where the Device is from.

That's a valid point, the machine needs to be OK with 60 hz. We
don't have any info one way or the other.





Three,
neutral is now a hot wire. The direction of current flow does matter
with some things. The internal wiring would tell the tale, though.

No, the neutral is not a hot wire, it's still a neutral. It becomes a
shared neutral or Edison circuit.






If they are on opposite legs, which is
what the poster said they were going to do, then you have 240V
between them which is what the machine needs.

The machine is wired for 220volts at 50hz on a single hot wire.

And there you go again with the "single wire". That machine uses two
wires, so does a 120V light bulb.




Like
you'd expect to see in commercial lighting and such here in the
states. 208/277 (at 60hz) etc on a single phase hot wire. As in:
208/277, etc, line to neutral. Not line to line, as you're suggesting
they reconfigure it to be.

Nonsense.




The individual would be better off, although it would be more costly
to get themselves a properly sized converter which can provide the
expected 220volts at 50hz on a single 'live' or 'hot' wire. That way,
neutral remains neutral and the frequency remains the same, too.

That is assuming it's here in the USA and it's OK with 240V instead
of 220V.

Assuming it doesn't care internally if neutral is used to provide the
second hot leg to get the 240volts as required here. Along with the
frequency difference.

The equipment doesn't give a rat's ass. It wants 240V and it gets it
from using the two hots from separate legs. At that point, it's just
like your 240V water heater.





They could theoretically turn two regular circuits into a shared
neutral edison circuit, which is what it sounded like they were
talking about doing. There may be code issues, but the physics is
straightforward.

I'm not arguing that point. That's exactly what your suggesting they
do.

No, I never suggested they do it. I clearly pointed out that I can't
see a way to do it so that it's code compatible. But the physics work
just fine, there is no one wire, two wire issue. The code compatible
way is to run a new 240V circuit.



I'm just not so sure it's a good idea for the OPs intended
purpose. I've never seen the machine they want to wire up, so
obviously don't have any schematics to it. I wouldn't wire it that
way without more information concerning it's internal wiring. I'd
play it safe and use a properly sized converter for the task,
instead.

You don't need the internal wiring, just the data sheet. If it is
compatible with 240V 60hz, then it will work.

On 02/14/2018 10:31 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

It may exist somewhere, it is a big country, but I've never seen 220V
in a home in the USA. It's 120/240. 220 is an international voltage.

I often hear older people in the US say 110/220.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

nullifidian n. & a. (Person) having no religious faith or belief, [f.
med. L nullifidius fr L nullus none + fides faith; see IAN]

On 2/14/2018 9:23 AM, Pat L wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

I can't imagine that the table actually draws 10 amps, that's just what
the rating may say.

Also remember that if it's an induction motor in the table then the
motor will run 20% faster with 60Hz power, hopefully it can still manage
the tiles at that faster speed.

The first thing I would do is to connect it to a 220V outlet and measure
the peak current with an amp clamp or wattage meter
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KLOUO1O so you know how much current you
actually need.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:08:40 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

I often hear older people in the US say 110/220.

It would be interesting to know what the actual voltage was in the
50s. Decent meters were far beyond what a regular homeowner could
afford.
I know the nominal voltage we talked about creeped up throughout my
life. 110 became 115, 117 and then 120. I also hear 125 from time to
time. My panel normally cruises around 123-124. If I don't buy 130
volt bulbs, they don't last long. Fortunately they are not regulated.

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 1:33:17 PM UTC-6, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:13:43 -0000, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:08:40 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

I often hear older people in the US say 110/220.

It would be interesting to know what the actual voltage was in the
50s. Decent meters were far beyond what a regular homeowner could
afford.
I know the nominal voltage we talked about creeped up throughout my
life. 110 became 115, 117 and then 120. I also hear 125 from time to
time. My panel normally cruises around 123-124. If I don't buy 130
volt bulbs, they don't last long. Fortunately they are not regulated.

I have seen old stereos with many tappings allowing for variations of a few volts. I guess electronics used to be far more sensitive.
--


Most electronics these days have switching power supplies which will accept different voltages and frequencies. The wall wart switching power supply for my Chromebook came with different plugs and will operate on different voltages and 50hz or 60hz. It will run on any AC power supplied to a home worldwide. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:09:41 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 01:03:22 -0000, Frank "frank wrote:

On 2/14/2018 7:42 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 21:02:07 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:38:30 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-5, Pat L wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a
box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that
over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but
I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out
there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

First, if you are in the USA it's 240v, so let's assume the machine
is ok with that. You can't put a 20a receptacle on a 15a circuit, ie
a circuit with a 15a breaker and 14g wire. Looks like your only
option is a new 240v circuit.


Let's try again. I saw where you said you wanted to put in a 20A
receptacle.
But the machine only needs 10A. So, you could use a 240V 15A receptacle.
The rest of what you're trying to do gets more dicely. As I
understand it,
you want to take two existing branch circuits that are on separate
breakers,
15A?, and turn them into an Edison circuit/shared neutral circuit that
still powers the existing two circuits plus the added 240V 15A
receptacle.
You'd have to replace the two breakers with a single double pole 15A
breaker.
Then the physics and basic safety work, but you still have other
potential
issues:

Are 240V and 120V receptacles permitted on the same circuit? I don't
know of any code provision that says no.

You'd have to make sure there aren't any other code issues with
converting
this into a shared neutral circuit.

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US. But before those
namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V. You could
take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V from the two
110V wires. Do the circuit breakers think there's an earth fault if you
try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires? I thought an American
circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines were linked and run off a
dual breaker which would accept a 220V device?


We also have 220 outlets. Think I only have one for clothes dryer but
at least well and electric stove are 220.

But what I'm interested in is do you ever have 220V devices connected to the same +/-110V wires as 110V devices, off the same breaker? If so, how does this breaker cope with THREE possible current flows?



I haven't seen 240V and 120V receptacles on the same circuit. I would
think mostly that's due to the fact that there is no need for it, eg
dryers, stoves are dedicated circuits. But IDK of any code provision
that prohibits it, nor is there any obvious safety issue. The breaker
deals with it by doing what breakers do, limiting the current to the
breaker rating.

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:00:21 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 01:54:27 -0000, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article , says...

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US. But before those namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V. You could take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V from the two 110V wires. Do the circuit breakers think there's an earth fault if you try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires?
I thought an American circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines were linked and run off a dual breaker which would accept a 220V device?




I think you have it correct. In the US what we have comming into the
house are 3 (or 4) wires. At the pole is a transformer that is center
tapped. across the full winding is 240 volts. From the center wire
(called the neutral) to either of the other wires is half that or 120
volts. So we can have either 120 volt or 240 volt devices. There is on
the newer items a safety ground that connects to the neutral at the
breaker box.



A sneaker way to run the 240 volt devices (you did not hear it from me)
is to find two recepticals on the different legs . YOu then run a wire
from each of the hot wires to the 240 volt device. It helps for safety
if you also run a ground wire. You do not need the neutrals if only a
240 volt device is hooked up.
If you do for some reason need a 120 volt device also, you can run the
neutral wires. As they are connected together at the breaker box, you
can use either one or both of them. Just be warned that if a single
breaker trips , the other side will still be 120 volts to ground and
neutral.

Don't you get a problem with earth leakage detection on the circuit breakers?
In the UK this is quite simple, the breaker measures the current through 240v and through 0V, and if they differ, some must have escaped to ground and it cuts the power.
Now how would this work in the USA, where you can have current flowing between -110V and +110V, or from one of the 110V wires to 0V? You'd have to have a very clever mechanism that monitored THREE currents and compared them all somehow.


First, most 240v breakers are not GFCI. Second, there are GFCI breakers
that include a neutral, so they can detect the current flow and if it
doesn't add up, ie sum of two hots and neutral is not zero, they trip.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:00:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 01:54:27 -0000, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article , says...

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US. But before those namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V. You could take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V from the two 110V wires. Do the circuit breakers think there's an earth fault if you try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires?
I thought an American circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines were linked and run off a dual breaker which would accept a 220V device?




I think you have it correct. In the US what we have comming into the
house are 3 (or 4) wires. At the pole is a transformer that is center
tapped. across the full winding is 240 volts. From the center wire
(called the neutral) to either of the other wires is half that or 120
volts. So we can have either 120 volt or 240 volt devices. There is on
the newer items a safety ground that connects to the neutral at the
breaker box.



A sneaker way to run the 240 volt devices (you did not hear it from me)
is to find two recepticals on the different legs . YOu then run a wire
from each of the hot wires to the 240 volt device. It helps for safety
if you also run a ground wire. You do not need the neutrals if only a
240 volt device is hooked up.
If you do for some reason need a 120 volt device also, you can run the
neutral wires. As they are connected together at the breaker box, you
can use either one or both of them. Just be warned that if a single
breaker trips , the other side will still be 120 volts to ground and
neutral.

Don't you get a problem with earth leakage detection on the circuit breakers?
In the UK this is quite simple, the breaker measures the current through 240v and through 0V, and if they differ, some must have escaped to ground and it cuts the power.
Now how would this work in the USA, where you can have current flowing between -110V and +110V, or from one of the 110V wires to 0V? You'd have to have a very clever mechanism that monitored THREE currents and compared them all somehow.

That is why a 120/240v GFCI costs about 3x what a 120v one costs.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:09:36 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 01:03:22 -0000, Frank "frank wrote:

On 2/14/2018 7:42 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 21:02:07 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:38:30 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-5, Pat L wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a
box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that
over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but
I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out
there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

First, if you are in the USA it's 240v, so let's assume the machine
is ok with that. You can't put a 20a receptacle on a 15a circuit, ie
a circuit with a 15a breaker and 14g wire. Looks like your only
option is a new 240v circuit.


Let's try again. I saw where you said you wanted to put in a 20A
receptacle.
But the machine only needs 10A. So, you could use a 240V 15A receptacle.
The rest of what you're trying to do gets more dicely. As I
understand it,
you want to take two existing branch circuits that are on separate
breakers,
15A?, and turn them into an Edison circuit/shared neutral circuit that
still powers the existing two circuits plus the added 240V 15A
receptacle.
You'd have to replace the two breakers with a single double pole 15A
breaker.
Then the physics and basic safety work, but you still have other
potential
issues:

Are 240V and 120V receptacles permitted on the same circuit? I don't
know of any code provision that says no.

You'd have to make sure there aren't any other code issues with
converting
this into a shared neutral circuit.

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US. But before those
namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V. You could
take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V from the two
110V wires. Do the circuit breakers think there's an earth fault if you
try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires? I thought an American
circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines were linked and run off a
dual breaker which would accept a 220V device?


We also have 220 outlets. Think I only have one for clothes dryer but
at least well and electric stove are 220.

But what I'm interested in is do you ever have 220V devices connected to the same +/-110V wires as 110V devices, off the same breaker? If so, how does this breaker cope with THREE possible current flows?

The GFCI is "clever" as you say but a regular breaker only measures
the current on the ungrounded conductors, no matter where it ends up.
You can have both available at the same location and we even have the
devices to make it easy

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/5-20-6-20.jpg
The top one is 240v 15 or 20a, the bottom is 120v 15 or 20a.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:33:11 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:13:43 -0000, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:08:40 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

I often hear older people in the US say 110/220.

It would be interesting to know what the actual voltage was in the
50s. Decent meters were far beyond what a regular homeowner could
afford.
I know the nominal voltage we talked about creeped up throughout my
life. 110 became 115, 117 and then 120. I also hear 125 from time to
time. My panel normally cruises around 123-124. If I don't buy 130
volt bulbs, they don't last long. Fortunately they are not regulated.

I have seen old stereos with many tappings allowing for variations of a few volts. I guess electronics used to be far more sensitive.

These days electronics don't really give a damn what you plug them
into. Any thing with an inverter converter (switching) power supply
have a wide mouth and they will run on anything from around 100v to
250v 50 or 60 hz. The first thing that happens is whatever you have
gets converted to DC, chopped at a very high frequency and then down
converted to whatever DC the device needs. That is real handy for
international traveler or for marketing things globally. You have one
piece of equipment that works anywhere with the right plug or plug
adapter.
It certainly worked out great for us in New Zealand. I had a couple of
plug adapters with cube taps in them and we were good to go with
everything we brought. (Laptops, phones, tablets, MP3 players etc)

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:52:19 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:45:45 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 1:33:17 PM UTC-6, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:13:43 -0000, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:08:40 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

I often hear older people in the US say 110/220.

It would be interesting to know what the actual voltage was in the
50s. Decent meters were far beyond what a regular homeowner could
afford.
I know the nominal voltage we talked about creeped up throughout my
life. 110 became 115, 117 and then 120. I also hear 125 from time to
time. My panel normally cruises around 123-124. If I don't buy 130
volt bulbs, they don't last long. Fortunately they are not regulated.

I have seen old stereos with many tappings allowing for variations of a few volts. I guess electronics used to be far more sensitive.

Most electronics these days have switching power supplies which will accept different voltages and frequencies. The wall wart switching power supply for my Chromebook came with different plugs and will operate on different voltages and 50hz or 60hz. It will run on any AC power supplied to a home worldwide. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

Even before that, thing with transformers in them must have had regulators that accepted a small change. They would only take around 230 or around 120, but didn't mind 20 either way.

Transformer power supplies are not that forgiving unless you have taps
on the input. Even then. they run hotter on 50hz unless they were
wound for it.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 21:17:47 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Second, there are GFCI breakers
that include a neutral, so they can detect the current flow and if it
doesn't add up, ie sum of two hots and neutral is not zero, they trip.

So those could handle an array of loads at both voltages? I take it they're electronic, I can't begin to imagine how else that would work.

I think it is just a clever way to wind the current canceling
transformer in the GFCI

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 21:17:47 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

And here was me thinking

Were you, Birdbrain? HILARIOUS! LMAO

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID:

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID:

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"the **** poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID:

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: 20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars

Ralph Mowery wrote:
A sneaker way to run the 240 volt devices (you did not hear it from me)
is to find two recepticals on the different legs . YOu then run a wire
from each of the hot wires to the 240 volt device. It helps for safety
if you also run a ground wire. You do not need the neutrals if only a
240 volt device is hooked up.
If you do for some reason need a 120 volt device also, you can run the
neutral wires. As they are connected together at the breaker box, you
can use either one or both of them. Just be warned that if a single
breaker trips , the other side will still be 120 volts to ground and
neutral.

Ralph you just reminded me that about 63 years ago when I was a student
living in a dorm room at MIT. I acquired a 240 volt window air
conditioner and wanted to use it to cool our toom. It turned out the
wall outlets in the room next to ours were on the other side of the 240
volt line so we ran a single wire out our window and into the window in
the next room. Presto, problem solved.

The next year I moved out of the dorm and rented an apartment across the
Charles river in Boston. Shortly after I hauled my stuff over there
guess what? I found out that building was one of many there still on DC
power and none of my beloved stereo equipment would work. I managed to
talk my way out of the lease because of that and found another place
that had already moved to AC power.

Lots of other funny things happened back then, like I went to try phone
sex but found out the holes in the dial were too small. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

[snip]

Most electronics these days have switching power supplies which will accept different voltages and frequencies. The wall wart switching power supply for my Chromebook came with different plugs and will operate on different voltages and 50hz or 60hz. It will run on any AC power supplied to a home worldwide. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

The power supply for my new USB3 hub is rated for 100-240V 50/60Hz, and
came with 4 adapter plugs for use in different countries (identified as
NA/EU/UK/AU).


--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

nullifidian n. & a. (Person) having no religious faith or belief, [f.
med. L nullifidius fr L nullus none + fides faith; see IAN]

In article , says...
It would be interesting to know what the actual voltage was in the
50s. Decent meters were far beyond what a regular homeowner could
afford.
I know the nominal voltage we talked about creeped up throughout my
life. 110 became 115, 117 and then 120. I also hear 125 from time to
time. My panel normally cruises around 123-124. If I don't buy 130
volt bulbs, they don't last long. Fortunately they are not regulated.

I have seen old stereos with many tappings allowing for variations of a few volts. I guess electronics used to be far more sensitive.



My dad was born in 1920 and for a good number of years serviced home
appliances. He always said 110 and 220 volts. I picked that up and
often use 110, 220 and when talking 3 phase like I often worked on will
often say 440 instead of 480.

Lots of things from the 1950s or so was listed at 115 volts. The voltage
does seem to be creaping up in the US. I have one of the inexpensive
meters that stays plugged into a socket that usually is 123 volts. It
seldom goes over that, but will sometimes show as low as 118 during
times the line heavy loaded. I did calibrate that meter to a Fluke that
the calibration was checked by a certified calibration company, so it
should only be off the + or - of one digit.


High quality tube equipment may have taps for the line voltage as the
filiment voltage is critical to how long they will last if it goes over
5 % high.

On 02/15/2018 04:41 PM, wrote:

[snip]

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/5-20-6-20.jpg
The top one is 240v 15 or 20a, the bottom is 120v 15 or 20a.

These might have been what we had in the apartment I when in during 2nd
grade. I just remember my father saying you can use only half of each
plug. These apartments belonged to the university, and there were a lot
of foreign students. Maybe that explains the 240V receptacles.

Would each half be on a different circuit?

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

nullifidian n. & a. (Person) having no religious faith or belief, [f.
med. L nullifidius fr L nullus none + fides faith; see IAN]

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 1:52:26 PM UTC-6, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:45:45 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 1:33:17 PM UTC-6, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:13:43 -0000, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:08:40 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

I often hear older people in the US say 110/220.

It would be interesting to know what the actual voltage was in the
50s. Decent meters were far beyond what a regular homeowner could
afford.
I know the nominal voltage we talked about creeped up throughout my
life. 110 became 115, 117 and then 120. I also hear 125 from time to
time. My panel normally cruises around 123-124. If I don't buy 130
volt bulbs, they don't last long. Fortunately they are not regulated..

I have seen old stereos with many tappings allowing for variations of a few volts. I guess electronics used to be far more sensitive.

Most electronics these days have switching power supplies which will accept different voltages and frequencies. The wall wart switching power supply for my Chromebook came with different plugs and will operate on different voltages and 50hz or 60hz. It will run on any AC power supplied to a home worldwide. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

Even before that, thing with transformers in them must have had regulators that accepted a small change. They would only take around 230 or around 120, but didn't mind 20 either way.
--


If it's a simple wall wart DC power supply with a transformer, a diode bridge, electrolytic filter capacitors and voltage regulator IC, you would need two different models for 120vac 60hz and 220vac 50hz. Switching regulator wall warts will generally work with both power sources needing only adapter plugs. Your desktop computer power supply usually has a switch near the IEC C14 connector to choose between 120vac 60hz and 220vac 50hz. My laptop power supplies will accept 100 to 240vac 50 or 60hz needing only the correct power cord or plug adapter. Switching Power Supplies are much more efficient than the old school heavy transformer power supplies. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Power Monster

On 2/15/2018 5:44 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Our system is so much simpler.* There really is no reason to have 110V equipment.

Why didn't you simpletons just go with 480v?* Think of all the money you'd save on copper wire.

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 4:00:42 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 20:58:51 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:09:41 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 01:03:22 -0000, Frank "frank wrote:

On 2/14/2018 7:42 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 21:02:07 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:38:30 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-5, Pat L wrote:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and mounting a
box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to convert that
over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

I know that there are converter that will convert 110V to 220V but
I am afraid the 15A circuits can not handle the machines. Anyone out
there really know what I can do or buy to make this happen?

First, if you are in the USA it's 240v, so let's assume the machine
is ok with that. You can't put a 20a receptacle on a 15a circuit, ie
a circuit with a 15a breaker and 14g wire. Looks like your only
option is a new 240v circuit.


Let's try again. I saw where you said you wanted to put in a 20A
receptacle.
But the machine only needs 10A. So, you could use a 240V 15A receptacle.
The rest of what you're trying to do gets more dicely. As I
understand it,
you want to take two existing branch circuits that are on separate
breakers,
15A?, and turn them into an Edison circuit/shared neutral circuit that
still powers the existing two circuits plus the added 240V 15A
receptacle.
You'd have to replace the two breakers with a single double pole 15A
breaker.
Then the physics and basic safety work, but you still have other
potential
issues:

Are 240V and 120V receptacles permitted on the same circuit? I don't
know of any code provision that says no.

You'd have to make sure there aren't any other code issues with
converting
this into a shared neutral circuit.

Being in the UK I'm not sure how this works in the US. But before those
namby pamby circuit breakers, you just had -110V, 0V, +110V. You could
take 110V from either of the 0V and 110V wires, or 220V from the two
110V wires. Do the circuit breakers think there's an earth fault if you
try to run a 220V device off two 110V wires? I thought an American
circuit was paired - i.e. the two 110V lines were linked and run off a
dual breaker which would accept a 220V device?


We also have 220 outlets. Think I only have one for clothes dryer but
at least well and electric stove are 220.

But what I'm interested in is do you ever have 220V devices connected to the same +/-110V wires as 110V devices, off the same breaker? If so, how does this breaker cope with THREE possible current flows?

I haven't seen 240V and 120V receptacles on the same circuit. I would
think mostly that's due to the fact that there is no need for it, eg
dryers, stoves are dedicated circuits. But IDK of any code provision
that prohibits it, nor is there any obvious safety issue. The breaker
deals with it by doing what breakers do, limiting the current to the
breaker rating.

I'm talking about EARTH LEAKAGE breakers.

--
CONGRESS.SYS corrupted... Re-boot Washington D.C. (Y/N)?

A 240v gfci breaker with neutral provides ground fault protection just like any other gfci. It sums the current in all 3 conductors. You can have both 120v and 240v loads.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 23:20:58 -0000, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:



Ralph Mowery wrote:
A sneaker way to run the 240 volt devices (you did not hear it from me)
is to find two recepticals on the different legs .* YOu then run a wire
from each of the hot wires to the 240 volt device.* It helps for safety
if you also run a ground wire.* You do not need the neutrals if only a
240 volt device is hooked up.
If you do for some reason need a 120 volt device also, you can run the
neutral wires.* As they are connected together at the breaker box, you
can use either one or both of them.* Just be warned that if a single
breaker trips , the other side will still be 120 volts to ground and
neutral.

Ralph you just reminded me that about 63 years ago when I was a student
living in a dorm room at MIT. I acquired a 240 volt window air
conditioner and wanted to use it to cool our room. It turned out the
wall outlets in the room next to ours were on the other side of the 240
volt line so we ran a single wire out our window and into the window in
the next room. Presto, problem solved.

The next year I moved out of the dorm and rented an apartment across the
Charles river in Boston. Shortly after I hauled my stuff over there
guess what? I found out that building was one of many there still on DC
power and none of my beloved stereo equipment would work. I managed to
talk my way out of the lease because of that and found another place
that had already moved to AC power.

Lots of other funny things happened back then, like I went to try phone
sex but found out the holes in the dial were too small. G

Direct current?* Oh my god how old are you?!


Nine squared plus one as of February 10th.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.