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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 11:19:21 AM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 03:53:54 -0000, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article ,
says...

trader_4 wrote:

AC isn't
consistent polarity in the positive/negative sense. It changes. In
the case of the states, roughly 60 times a second.

I don't think it is "roughly". AC powered clocks keep very good time for
long periods. Though I have heard that sometimes the power generating
companies keep track of how many cycles have taken place over some fixed
period of time and slow down or speed up the generators to correct things.

Jeff

It is sort of roughly 60 Hz. The power company has at times slowed the
frequency some ( maybe 1/2 or 1 Hz) during peak power loads. They will
then raise it a small ammount during lower loads to keep an average over
a long period of time. This keeps all the line powered clocks very close
over a period of time.


Surely nobody uses clocks like that anymore.


The old ones were synched by virtue of the motor. But there is no reason
some new clocks that are AC powered and digital could not use the AC
freq as a reference to keep the clock always synched. IDK if any do it.
There are also clocks now that use the National Stds Bureau atomic clock
to stay synched. They put out a radio broadcast with the time info
encoded.

I'm sure the digital clocks in our home appliances, clock radios and
other stuff use the 60 Hz line to sync them to the world.That would be
easier and cheaper than adding receivers for the RF time signals.

BTW my last job before retiring about 15 years ago was building and
testing cesium atomic clocks for use in the GPS satellites. Now THEY
were ACCURATE without any external syncing. That's how GPS can determine
just where you are to within less that a hundred feet despite the
satellites being so far above you.

Jeff

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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 12:59:17 PM UTC-5, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 11:19:21 AM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 03:53:54 -0000, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article ,
says...

trader_4 wrote:

AC isn't
consistent polarity in the positive/negative sense. It changes. In
the case of the states, roughly 60 times a second.

I don't think it is "roughly". AC powered clocks keep very good time for
long periods. Though I have heard that sometimes the power generating
companies keep track of how many cycles have taken place over some fixed
period of time and slow down or speed up the generators to correct things.

Jeff

It is sort of roughly 60 Hz. The power company has at times slowed the
frequency some ( maybe 1/2 or 1 Hz) during peak power loads. They will
then raise it a small ammount during lower loads to keep an average over
a long period of time. This keeps all the line powered clocks very close
over a period of time.

Surely nobody uses clocks like that anymore.


The old ones were synched by virtue of the motor. But there is no reason
some new clocks that are AC powered and digital could not use the AC
freq as a reference to keep the clock always synched. IDK if any do it.
There are also clocks now that use the National Stds Bureau atomic clock
to stay synched. They put out a radio broadcast with the time info
encoded.

I'm sure the digital clocks in our home appliances, clock radios and
other stuff use the 60 Hz line to sync them to the world.That would be
easier and cheaper than adding receivers for the RF time signals.

BTW my last job before retiring about 15 years ago was building and
testing cesium atomic clocks for use in the GPS satellites. Now THEY
were ACCURATE without any external syncing. That's how GPS can determine
just where you are to within less that a hundred feet despite the
satellites being so far above you.

Jeff

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(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.


So accurate that two of those atomic clocks were used to prove
Einstein's special theory of relativity. One on the ground, one
flown around the world on a 747 as I recall.
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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 11:50:44 AM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 12:38:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 16:51:07 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Indeed, if it's electronic you might aswell use the radio signal


For some reason we don't get WWV (or whatever that radio signal is
these days) down here. I have never had a radio backed up clock that
worked worth a damn.


It's one of the useless govt programs, so Trump probably turned it off.



More TDS,"Trump Derangement Syndrome". Tell us Traitor_4ever how much better things would be with your girl HITLERy Clinton and The Clinton Crime Family in The White House. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Deplorable Monster
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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 19:10:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 17:37:55 -0000, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 16:51:07 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Indeed, if it's electronic you might aswell use the radio signal


For some reason we don't get WWV (or whatever that radio signal is
these days) down here. I have never had a radio backed up clock that
worked worth a damn.


I get it in Scotland, but the mobile phone (er cell phone) signal sux.


You are getting the signal from Cumbria and that is just down the road
from you. Boulder Colorado is 2600 KM from me.
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Default Gay ****** Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), the Sociopathic Attention Whore

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 16:15:34 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:


Cats are really stupid, I own several. I doubt rats are any better.


Wanna bet that even your cats think that you are a complete idiot,
Birdbrain?

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MID:


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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

trader_4
Thu, 15
Feb 2018 12:38:44 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

[snip]

Umm... Where are you getting consistent polarity from?


It's ac there is no consistent polarity.


I know that. I was asking James more about his +/- attributions. I
suspect I know what he actually meant now, so my question doesn't much
matter anymore.

You have 240
from hot to hot, and 120 from either hot to neutral. To get the
full 240volts, you use both hots and forget the neutral.


Which is what the op said they want to do. They want to take two
120v circuits that are on opposite legs and use them for a 240v
receptacle. There are code issues, but the physics works. They
would wind up with support for both 120v at the existing outlets
and 240 at the new one.


Hmm..

MID:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot
they u= se 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by u= sing two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110= v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground=
to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.


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he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php 10/10
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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

trader_4
Thu, 15
Feb 2018 12:57:54 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Why would you ever connect the two wires period? YOU are the one
that started talking about connecting the two wires together. The
OP clearly stated what they were talking about. They were
proposing to connect the 240V load between the two circuits that
exist on opposite legs.


The OP mentioned 'combining' them...

MID:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot
they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

*** end paste

They can't combine the two 120volt legs into a single leg as they
wrote they wanted, simply by connecting the two legs to each other.
I mentioned that for the purposes of clarity, based on what the OP
wrote they would like to do.



If the two 120volts circuits are not fed by the same hot
leg/phase, you WILL most certainly get the arc flash I previously
wrote about if you just try to wire those hots together to create
240volts on a single wire. IE: make a pigtail.


And again, no one except you ever proposed connecting them
together.


Re-read the OPs post...

MID:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot
they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.



I clearly stated that while it will work, I don't see a way to do
it code compliant.




One, the supply is going to be 240volts across two seperate leg
fed hot wires, instead of one as originally called for.


As originally called for by whom?


The manufacturer who wired it for L,N,G 220volt/50hz

Three,
neutral is now a hot wire. The direction of current flow does
matter with some things. The internal wiring would tell the tale,
though.


No, the neutral is not a hot wire, it's still a neutral. It
becomes a shared neutral or Edison circuit.


It's not going to be used for the device the OP wants to connect.
The device will have two hots and a ground. As the device has line,
neutral, and ground connections intended for connection to an
electrical system that's different than ours. On the intended
electrical system, they get 220volts 50hz/ac on a single hot wire,
where as we get 120volts 60hz/ac on a residential systems hot wire.
We use two hot wires to get 240volts with residential, they don't.

We seem to have a miscommunication here. I was writing about the
mahjong table device, specifically. I wasn't writing about any
existing circuit taps, edison circuits, etc.

Also...

I was doing a tiny amount of researching these tables and came
across this:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...419851227.html

That motor is rated for 220volt/110volt ac.
Rated Voltage:220V/110VAC
Rated Frequency: 50Hz/60Hz

Under product description.

I don't know that his table is using one of those motors
specifically, but, it's possible it is. And, it's also possible
whatever other electrical components are present are also okay with
110volts at 60hz. If it were my table, i'd look into it before I
went and ran another circuit to feed it. It could be nothing more
than attaching a standard american 3 prong power cord to it and
plugging it into a normal 120volt outlet here.


MID:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot
they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.







If they are on opposite legs, which is
what the poster said they were going to do, then you have 240V
between them which is what the machine needs.


The machine is wired for 220volts at 50hz on a single hot wire.


And there you go again with the "single wire". That machine uses
two wires, so does a 120V light bulb.


Yes, single hot wire carrying 220volts (or so) at 50hz, where as our
residential ones carry 120 at 60hz...(or so). I didn't say the
machine didn't use two wires. I said it's using one live and one
neutral at 220volts 50hz, in it's current configuration. In order to
convert it to our system and give it 240volts, it won't have a
neutral connection anymore. It'll be our second hot leg, instead.

*shrug*

Like
you'd expect to see in commercial lighting and such here in the
states. 208/277 (at 60hz) etc on a single phase hot wire. As in:
208/277, etc, line to neutral. Not line to line, as you're
suggesting they reconfigure it to be.


Nonsense.


What specifically is nonsense? The table has a single L, n, and
ground connection. In order to give it 240volts here from a
residential power source without using a converter is by connecting
our second hot leg to it's neutral. Line to line is what your
suggestion would become.

I'd be surprised if you were unaware of various electrical voltages
available via a single hot wire vs two in the states.

I've troubleshot and repaired a lot of poleheads, and, uhh, that's
most certainly 277 volts (or more) on a single hot wire, with a
neutral and ground present on the majority of them. I can't even
count how many poles i've rewired not even including the new ones
i've helped install. Or the various other nifty/interesting kinds of
commercial electrical things I've worked on, but, 277 is a pretty
damn common voltage level here, delivered via ONE HOT wire.






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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 3:17:15 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Thu, 15
Feb 2018 12:57:54 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Why would you ever connect the two wires period? YOU are the one
that started talking about connecting the two wires together. The
OP clearly stated what they were talking about. They were
proposing to connect the 240V load between the two circuits that
exist on opposite legs.


The OP mentioned 'combining' them...



The "combining them" is taking the two separate 120V hots that are in the
house now on circuits that are on different legs and bringing them into
a new 240V receptacle. From all that they posted, that's what they proposed
to do. And it will work, except you can't do it code compliant because
not all the conductors for the circuit would be in the same cable.

I agree that last sentence is confusing because they say they want to
combine the two 120V legs to one 240v leg. Reword that to say I will
combine the hots from two 120v legs to one 240V receptacle.





MID:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot
they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

*** end paste

They can't combine the two 120volt legs into a single leg as they
wrote they wanted, simply by connecting the two legs to each other.


They never said they were going to simply connect them, they talked
about installing and wiring up a new 240V receptacle powered off of
two hots on separate legs. That's how you get 240V.



I mentioned that for the purposes of clarity, based on what the OP
wrote they would like to do.



If the two 120volts circuits are not fed by the same hot
leg/phase, you WILL most certainly get the arc flash I previously
wrote about if you just try to wire those hots together to create
240volts on a single wire. IE: make a pigtail.


And again, no one except you ever proposed connecting them
together.


Re-read the OPs post...

MID:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot
they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.



I clearly stated that while it will work, I don't see a way to do
it code compliant.




One, the supply is going to be 240volts across two seperate leg
fed hot wires, instead of one as originally called for.


As originally called for by whom?


The manufacturer who wired it for L,N,G 220volt/50hz


And they can provide it with 240V 60Hz. The 240V goes to the machine
between the L and N terminals.





Three,
neutral is now a hot wire. The direction of current flow does
matter with some things. The internal wiring would tell the tale,
though.


No, the neutral is not a hot wire, it's still a neutral. It
becomes a shared neutral or Edison circuit.


It's not going to be used for the device the OP wants to connect.



Why not?



The device will have two hots and a ground. As the device has line,
neutral, and ground connections intended for connection to an
electrical system that's different than ours. On the intended
electrical system, they get 220volts 50hz/ac on a single hot wire,
where as we get 120volts 60hz/ac on a residential systems hot wire.
We use two hot wires to get 240volts with residential, they don't.


What you fail to grasp is that the machine doesn't care exactly how
the 240V is derived. All it cares is that 240V AC appears between
it's line and neutral terminal. If you do what the poster proposed,
you get 240V.





We seem to have a miscommunication here. I was writing about the
mahjong table device, specifically. I wasn't writing about any
existing circuit taps, edison circuits, etc.


But the whole question posed involved using two existing circuits,
combining them to get 240V to use with the mahjong machine.




Also...

I was doing a tiny amount of researching these tables and came
across this:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...419851227.html

That motor is rated for 220volt/110volt ac.
Rated Voltage:220V/110VAC
Rated Frequency: 50Hz/60Hz

Under product description.

I don't know that his table is using one of those motors
specifically, but, it's possible it is. And, it's also possible
whatever other electrical components are present are also okay with
110volts at 60hz. If it were my table, i'd look into it before I
went and ran another circuit to feed it. It could be nothing more
than attaching a standard american 3 prong power cord to it and
plugging it into a normal 120volt outlet here.


That's possible, depending on what's there.







MID:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I forgot
they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V 20A
female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want to
convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to combine
the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.







If they are on opposite legs, which is
what the poster said they were going to do, then you have 240V
between them which is what the machine needs.

The machine is wired for 220volts at 50hz on a single hot wire.


And there you go again with the "single wire". That machine uses
two wires, so does a 120V light bulb.


Yes, single hot wire carrying 220volts (or so) at 50hz, where as our
residential ones carry 120 at 60hz...(or so). I didn't say the
machine didn't use two wires. I said it's using one live and one
neutral at 220volts 50hz, in it's current configuration. In order to
convert it to our system and give it 240volts, it won't have a
neutral connection anymore. It'll be our second hot leg, instead.

*shrug*


What is neutral is simply what is the grounded conductor. The eqpt
has a grounded plug, the ground connection will be maintained. There
should be no no electrical difference to the machine at that point as
to whether the wire marked neutral is connected to a grounded conductor
or not.


Like
you'd expect to see in commercial lighting and such here in the
states. 208/277 (at 60hz) etc on a single phase hot wire. As in:
208/277, etc, line to neutral. Not line to line, as you're
suggesting they reconfigure it to be.


Nonsense.


What specifically is nonsense?


It's all irrelevant to the application at hand.




The table has a single L, n, and
ground connection. In order to give it 240volts here from a
residential power source without using a converter is by connecting
our second hot leg to it's neutral. Line to line is what your
suggestion would become.







I'd be surprised if you were unaware of various electrical voltages
available via a single hot wire vs two in the states.


Again back to the one wire. You put 240V into that machine across
two wires. Always two wires. You cannot have a potential difference
and current flow unless there are TWO wires. That one side is called a neutral
in other wiring systems because they have it identified as the
grounded conductor doesn't change the fact that you have 240V AC
across those terminals. Hook up a meter or scope and you see
a 240V AC 60 Hz waveform here, 220V 50 Hz waveform there. Other
than the slight diff in voltage and freq, it looks and acts the
same.

And note that I said you can't use the existing circuits and make it
code compliant, so they instead can run a new 240V circuit. Several
other people recommended that too. Hire an electrician, run a new 240V
circuit. According to you, that can't work either, is that correct?



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On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:12:36 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 00:33:35 -0000, Ralph Mowery wrote:


On other frequencies below around 20 to 30 MHz during the day they go
anywhere on earth,and at night just a few miles.


Fair enough, I probably haven't used the radio much at night.


You might be surprised on a clear night if you have a good AM radio
(the best usually are from old cars) with about a 30 meter long wire
antenna strung up in a straight line across the yard, as high as you
can get it.
You might be picking up east coast AM radio from the US and there is
one in Labrador you might hear.
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"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

Diesel is a criminal hacker, he doesn't have a brain, don't bother
reasoning with him.


Do you know what a contradiction is?

How am I a criminal hacker, exactly?


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On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 06:50:01 -0000 (UTC), Diesel
wrote:

"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

Diesel is a criminal hacker, he doesn't have a brain, don't bother
reasoning with him.


Do you know what a contradiction is?


If a hacker doesn't have a brain, what does that say about the people
who are so easily hacked?
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On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 1:17:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am not sure if it is just that the signal from Boulder that just
can't make it here or if all of the steel in the building is blocking
it. FM radio is pretty shaky here too.


WWV makes it here to the East Coast. Some of my clocks pick it up well, others (smaller ones) don't, they need to be set outside at night to reset.

At work all the more recent buildings have steel stud construction and it's hard to get any signal, including cell phones.

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On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 21:22:43 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

If a hacker doesn't have a brain, what does that say about the people
who are so easily hacked?


So someone who's a victim of a burglary is an idiot in your mind?


If they did not make their house very hard to break into they are.
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Tue, 20 Feb 2018 15:23:19 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 06:50:01 -0000 (UTC), Diesel
wrote:

"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

Diesel is a criminal hacker, he doesn't have a brain, don't
bother reasoning with him.


Do you know what a contradiction is?


If a hacker doesn't have a brain, what does that say about the
people who are so easily hacked?


Not much eh?




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"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 15:23:19 -0000, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 06:50:01 -0000 (UTC), Diesel
wrote:

"James Wilkinson Sword"
news alt.home.repair, wrote:

Diesel is a criminal hacker, he doesn't have a brain, don't
bother reasoning with him.

Do you know what a contradiction is?


If a hacker doesn't have a brain, what does that say about the
people who are so easily hacked?


So someone who's a victim of a burglary is an idiot in your mind?


I've asked you several times to substantiate your claim concerning
myself, and, you've continued to fail to do so. Any particular reason
for that?


--
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local law enforcement, etc.
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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

trader_4
Tue, 20
Feb 2018 00:15:41 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 3:17:15 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Thu,
15 Feb 2018 12:57:54 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Why would you ever connect the two wires period? YOU are the
one that started talking about connecting the two wires
together. The OP clearly stated what they were talking about.
They were proposing to connect the 240V load between the two
circuits that exist on opposite legs.


The OP mentioned 'combining' them...



The "combining them" is taking the two separate 120V hots that are
in the house now on circuits that are on different legs and
bringing them into a new 240V receptacle. From all that they
posted, that's what they proposed to do. And it will work, except
you can't do it code compliant because not all the conductors for
the circuit would be in the same cable.


Hmm. I wonder if you'd still be in code violation if you opted to use
pvc or perhaps, conduit depending on install location, and ran
individual wires inside of it? For all the hassle though, it would
probably be simpler to pull a new circuit... assuming the panel has
the required room available.

I agree that last sentence is confusing because they say they want
to combine the two 120V legs to one 240v leg. Reword that to say
I will combine the hots from two 120v legs to one 240V receptacle.


It could be a simple terminology issue on their part, or, they really
don't understand the concepts involved. As a precaution against
someone doing what they literally wrote, I commented about arcing.

You have to consider the fact that somebody out there might think you
can combine those legs via parallel or series and double the voltage
or amperage on a single live wire. Obviously, for reasons that should
be obvious, you cannot...





MID:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V
20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want
to convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my
machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

*** end paste

They can't combine the two 120volt legs into a single leg as they
wrote they wanted, simply by connecting the two legs to each
other.


They never said they were going to simply connect them, they
talked about installing and wiring up a new 240V receptacle
powered off of two hots on separate legs. That's how you get
240V.


You don't need to write to me as if you're an adult correcting a
child, Trader. If I was fresh out of college with only classroom
based knowledge and no field experience and/or it was my first day on
the job as a greenhorn helper or something, sure; but that's not the
case here so it's not necessary. Residential wiring isn't ****, most
commercial wiring isn't complicated either. Something which interests
me, but, doesn't present any real challenge are PLC motor controls.
If I had no prior programming/coding experience in the real world
using various HLL languages as well as raw machine code and/or
assembler, it might be more challenging, but, that's not the case for
me.

As you well know, it's certainly possible to get 240volts (or more)
on a single hot/live wire, but, it's not done by literally connecting
the legs to each other in a parallel or series manner. That's all I
was commenting about when I wrote of arcing. Based on the thread,
another poster noticed the wording issue with the OPs post and also
warned against a short circuit condition should the OP actually do
what they wrote they wanted to do without using a converter, as the
OP already said they didn't want to go that route.

"I want to combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg." is what the OP
wrote.

Instead of letting the OP know you can't do what they literally wrote
and suggesting one proper way of getting the voltage they wanted, you
opted to ignore? that section and provide one proper way of getting
the voltage they wanted, but, not via a single hot wire as they
originally wrote about.

The manufacturer who wired it for L,N,G 220volt/50hz


And they can provide it with 240V 60Hz. The 240V goes to the
machine between the L and N terminals.


I'm well aware of how to get 240volts here, thanks. Once again,
you're trying to talk down to me. I see no point in this. I haven't
been intentionally disrespecting you in such a manner.





Three,
neutral is now a hot wire. The direction of current flow does
matter with some things. The internal wiring would tell the
tale, though.

No, the neutral is not a hot wire, it's still a neutral. It
becomes a shared neutral or Edison circuit.


It's not going to be used for the device the OP wants to connect.



Why not?


It doesn't have L1,L2, neutral and ground. It has one incoming live
wire terminal, one neutral and one ground. Since we're going to use
it's neutral terminal as the other incoming live wire connection
point to get the 240volts we want, we won't be making use of any
neutral wires coming from the panel or another circuit. We'll be
using two hots and a ground, instead. Are you intentionally being
obtuse?

The device will have two hots and a ground. As the device has
line, neutral, and ground connections intended for connection to
an electrical system that's different than ours. On the intended
electrical system, they get 220volts 50hz/ac on a single hot
wire, where as we get 120volts 60hz/ac on a residential systems
hot wire. We use two hot wires to get 240volts with residential,
they don't.


What you fail to grasp is that the machine doesn't care exactly
how the 240V is derived. All it cares is that 240V AC appears
between it's line and neutral terminal. If you do what the
poster proposed, you get 240V.


I haven't failed to grasp anything, actually. I've even picked up on
your attitude. If I did what the poster literally wrote, I'd have
a 240volt arc flash.

We seem to have a miscommunication here. I was writing about the
mahjong table device, specifically. I wasn't writing about any
existing circuit taps, edison circuits, etc.


But the whole question posed involved using two existing circuits,
combining them to get 240V to use with the mahjong machine.


It also spoke of combining them in the sense of wanting 240volts on a
single hot wire, instead of via two hot wires as it is in our system.
The OP actually presented several questions/inquiries in his/her
post. Along with a little information concerning the device they
intended to connect and why they wanted to provide it the higher
voltage.

I don't know that his table is using one of those motors
specifically, but, it's possible it is. And, it's also possible
whatever other electrical components are present are also okay
with 110volts at 60hz. If it were my table, i'd look into it
before I went and ran another circuit to feed it. It could be
nothing more than attaching a standard american 3 prong power
cord to it and plugging it into a normal 120volt outlet here.


That's possible, depending on what's there.


Ayep. Like I said though, if it were mine, I'd take the time required
to have a looksee under the hood for options before I took the time
and effort to run a circuit to feed it. Unless I'm really concerned
about the marginal power bill savings I'd acquire if I did provide it
240volt instead of 120 (assuming it could use either).

Like
you'd expect to see in commercial lighting and such here in
the states. 208/277 (at 60hz) etc on a single phase hot wire.
As in: 208/277, etc, line to neutral. Not line to line, as
you're suggesting they reconfigure it to be.

Nonsense.


What specifically is nonsense?


It's all irrelevant to the application at hand.


How so? If anything, it's an example of what the OP actually wanted
in practical use.

The table has a single L, n, and
ground connection. In order to give it 240volts here from a
residential power source without using a converter is by
connecting our second hot leg to it's neutral. Line to line is
what your suggestion would become.







I'd be surprised if you were unaware of various electrical
voltages available via a single hot wire vs two in the states.


Again back to the one wire.


Ayep. What part of that confuses you so much?

You put 240V into that machine across two wires. Always two wires.


Wasn't disputing the need for two wires, regardless of voltage. My
entire comment concerning it was the fact that both aren't hot wires
in the configuration it's originally setup for. Infact, it's
originaly configuration is closer to our commercial wiring
configurations than our residential ones. Aside from a difference in
voltage and cycles.

And note that I said you can't use the existing circuits and make
it code compliant, so they instead can run a new 240V circuit.
Several other people recommended that too. Hire an electrician,
run a new 240V circuit. According to you, that can't work either,
is that correct?


What's according to me, exactly?


--
Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim!
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)
to learn more. If you've already become a victim or know someone who
has, you can provide the following information to them, your lawyer,
local law enforcement, etc.
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
Email(s): ,
You may also be able to file a report with his local police
department via this link:
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk
  #103   Report Post  
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Posts: 14,141
Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 23:13:19 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

So someone who's a victim of a burglary is an idiot in your mind?


If they did not make their house very hard to break into they are.



Any house with windows is very easy to break in. Anything from a good a
good piece of wood like a baseball bat will knock out most any window
used in a house. Very few homes are built with out windows.


You can't break my windows with a 2x4 shot out of an air cannon.
  #104   Report Post  
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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 11:17:47 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Tue, 20
Feb 2018 00:15:41 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 3:17:15 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Thu,
15 Feb 2018 12:57:54 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Why would you ever connect the two wires period? YOU are the
one that started talking about connecting the two wires
together. The OP clearly stated what they were talking about.
They were proposing to connect the 240V load between the two
circuits that exist on opposite legs.

The OP mentioned 'combining' them...



The "combining them" is taking the two separate 120V hots that are
in the house now on circuits that are on different legs and
bringing them into a new 240V receptacle. From all that they
posted, that's what they proposed to do. And it will work, except
you can't do it code compliant because not all the conductors for
the circuit would be in the same cable.


Hmm. I wonder if you'd still be in code violation if you opted to use
pvc or perhaps, conduit depending on install location, and ran
individual wires inside of it?


Why would there be any code violation then? Individual wires are run
inside PVC conduit all the time. The main objective for the OP was to
avoid running a new circuit. And if you're going to run a new circuit,
typically romex is easier and less costly than conduit, unless conduit
is required for some reason. This is just a rabbit hole to nowhere.




They never said they were going to simply connect them, they
talked about installing and wiring up a new 240V receptacle
powered off of two hots on separate legs. That's how you get
240V.


You don't need to write to me as if you're an adult correcting a
child, Trader.


I wasn't. I simply pointed out again what the OP was intending to do.
And I note that many others responded and understood what the
OP said they were intending to do, every other poster was talking
about using two hot legs from circuits on different legs to power
the device with a new 240v receptacle, consistent with what the
OP said they were thinking of doing.






If I was fresh out of college with only classroom
based knowledge and no field experience and/or it was my first day on
the job as a greenhorn helper or something, sure; but that's not the
case here so it's not necessary. Residential wiring isn't ****, most
commercial wiring isn't complicated either. Something which interests
me, but, doesn't present any real challenge are PLC motor controls.
If I had no prior programming/coding experience in the real world
using various HLL languages as well as raw machine code and/or
assembler, it might be more challenging, but, that's not the case for
me.

As you well know, it's certainly possible to get 240volts (or more)
on a single hot/live wire,


but, it's not done by literally connecting
the legs to each other in a parallel or series manner. That's all I
was commenting about when I wrote of arcing. Based on the thread,
another poster noticed the wording issue with the OPs post and also
warned against a short circuit condition should the OP actually do
what they wrote they wanted to do without using a converter, as the
OP already said they didn't want to go that route.

"I want to combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg." is what the OP
wrote.


Again taken totally out of context and ignoring the previous sentences
where the OP talked about putting in the 240V receptacle driven off
two circuits.




Instead of letting the OP know you can't do what they literally wrote
and suggesting one proper way of getting the voltage they wanted, you
opted to ignore? that section and provide one proper way of getting
the voltage they wanted, but, not via a single hot wire as they
originally wrote about.


They never wrote about using a single hot wire if you read all that
they wrote. They said they were putting in a 240V receptacle driven
off two separate circuits.




The manufacturer who wired it for L,N,G 220volt/50hz


And they can provide it with 240V 60Hz. The 240V goes to the
machine between the L and N terminals.


I'm well aware of how to get 240volts here, thanks. Once again,
you're trying to talk down to me. I see no point in this. I haven't
been intentionally disrespecting you in such a manner.


I'm just stating the facts.








Three,
neutral is now a hot wire. The direction of current flow does
matter with some things. The internal wiring would tell the
tale, though.

No, the neutral is not a hot wire, it's still a neutral. It
becomes a shared neutral or Edison circuit.

It's not going to be used for the device the OP wants to connect.



Why not?


It doesn't have L1,L2, neutral and ground. It has one incoming live
wire terminal, one neutral and one ground. Since we're going to use
it's neutral terminal as the other incoming live wire connection
point to get the 240volts we want, we won't be making use of any
neutral wires coming from the panel or another circuit. We'll be
using two hots and a ground, instead. Are you intentionally being
obtuse?


Why don't you define for us what "neutral" actually means electrically.





The device will have two hots and a ground. As the device has
line, neutral, and ground connections intended for connection to
an electrical system that's different than ours. On the intended
electrical system, they get 220volts 50hz/ac on a single hot
wire, where as we get 120volts 60hz/ac on a residential systems
hot wire. We use two hot wires to get 240volts with residential,
they don't.


What you fail to grasp is that the machine doesn't care exactly
how the 240V is derived. All it cares is that 240V AC appears
between it's line and neutral terminal. If you do what the
poster proposed, you get 240V.


I haven't failed to grasp anything, actually. I've even picked up on
your attitude. If I did what the poster literally wrote, I'd have
a 240volt arc flash.


No you would not. You are the only one talking about an arc. Everyone
else understood what they meant. Jeff for example, explained how he
had done what the OP proposed, create a 240V receptacle off of two 120v
branch circuits to power a 240V AC when in college decades ago.





We seem to have a miscommunication here. I was writing about the
mahjong table device, specifically. I wasn't writing about any
existing circuit taps, edison circuits, etc.


But the whole question posed involved using two existing circuits,
combining them to get 240V to use with the mahjong machine.


It also spoke of combining them in the sense of wanting 240volts on a
single hot wire, instead of via two hot wires as it is in our system.




The OP actually presented several questions/inquiries in his/her
post. Along with a little information concerning the device they
intended to connect and why they wanted to provide it the higher
voltage.


Wow, imagine that.




And note that I said you can't use the existing circuits and make
it code compliant, so they instead can run a new 240V circuit.
Several other people recommended that too. Hire an electrician,
run a new 240V circuit. According to you, that can't work either,
is that correct?


What's according to me, exactly?



I believe if one follows your arguments, that a new 240V circuit can't
be run to power the machine either.

So, again, yes or no, can they run a new 240V circuit to a new
receptacle to power the machine? Yes or No?

And if the answer is yes, how do you do that, get a 240V code compliant
circuit where one of the two 240V conductors is identified as the neutral?
Or as you like to put it, where you get 240V on only one hot wire?
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Default US 220V 20A TO CHINA 220V 10A MAHJONG MACHINE

If you power it from two separate circuits, and you trip one breaker, the machine will stop. But it will still be hot with 110 from the other circuit, and you won't know that. Until you touch it.

You can power it from one breaker, but it's one circuit. Anything else is a safety hazard, although it will work.
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